Frankly I wasn’t a fan of the DS. It was cool and it’s not like I didn’t like it, but it just didn’t have a lot of games I liked. I was actually a PSP guy myself during that era. Though I was a fairly casual gamer back then.
And, that carried forward to Vita, which I bought day one. It’s just that... Vita kinda fell through on its potential and 3DS was so much cooler to me at the time. The 3D effect amazed me and I’ve continued being a fan of the 3D to this day. I’m not as enamored with it as I used to be, but I never disliked it like some people did. And it got so many games I was way more into. I sunk a lot of time into Vita, but 3DS dominated my playtime even more than Wii U and PS4 combined. That was the first time a handheld turned out to be my primary console.
And, it’s not like I planned for that to happen. I had always liked handhelds but they were never my preference. Mostly because of the lack of full button set, games that were dialed back and not on par with what consoles could offer, extremely sub-HD resolutions, and it sucked giving up TV play to get it. And in rare cases where a game did release twice on console too, you’d usually have to buy two versions of it and play the lottery in hopes of it having cross save, and even if it did it was a hassle to use every single time, because you had to boot up the actual game and do it in the menu. That’s if you’re even lucky enough to have it at all.
Switch basically wrecked every single complaint and barrier from the handhelds of yesteryear. No full button set? Let’s fix that. Dual shoulder buttons, clickable analogs, rumble, the works. No more relying on touchscreen for buttons that can’t be mapped. Don’t like pared back games? Let’s fix that. Switch runs the actual Wii U games on handheld, releases that were actual console games when I was playing 3DS. No more settling for 25fps DKC Returns in 240p. Now I get HD DKC Tropical Freeze in 60fps with a far more luxurious and ergonomic handheld. All those PS3/360 games that missed out on Wii U, and could NEVER hope to run on 3DS? Ya, they’re all on Switch. In gorgeous HD handheld play with gyro aiming and dual analog controls. Current gen console games can’t run on handheld? That’s still kinda true, but only for the really demanding AAA titles. Pretty much everything else comes to Switch. Tired of 240p on 3DS and the predominant 360-480p on Vita (and occasionally 540p)? Now that’s the floor. Almost all Switch games have 540p as a bare minimum rather than a hopeful ceiling, and most do even better than that. Tired of having to give up tv play for the benefit of portability? No problem. Switch is both. Not only is it both, it even takes it one step farther than that with tabletop “portable console” mode, which is different than handheld. Handheld is not portable console. You’re not playing on a separate screen with a dedicated controller. In tabletop you get a true portable console experience. 3 versions in 1, for every single game, no cross buy needed, no cross save needed.
No more Valkyria Chronicles 2 PSP version designed for handheld. Now we’re getting the real thing. Valkyria Chronicles 1 and even the newest console release, 4, as a console game, as a handheld game, as a portable console game. No more pixelated Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate with no online, unless you spend $100 for two versions to have on Wii U and 3DS, use the clunky save transfer tool to bounce between. Now we get Monster Hunter Rise, basically the MH World of the portable line. A game that looks so good half the responses in comments are a refusal to believe it’s running on Switch. Full button set. No loading zones. 3 versions in 1. No more Borderlands 2 at 20 FPS with missing buttons, using rear touchpad and corners of touchscreen for the 4 missing buttons, accidentally brushing your thumb against the corner of the screen and throwing a grenade indoors and killing yourself, or your middle finger accidentally brushing against the back of the consul and causing you to crouch when you’re running. Now we get a game that’s visually near indistinguishable from the PS4 remaster, at a rock solid Framerate, with gyro aiming, 3 versions in 1. And so on, and so on, and so on.
I’ve always liked Nintendo, mainly because it was what I was familiar with growing up, but I never had any particular attachment to them until I started playing all the amazing games on 3DS and Wii U. And as a new gamer who was discovering all these amazing experiences for the first time, it turned me into a fan. I didn’t like the systems and games because I was a fan of Nintendo, I became a fan of Nintendo because I liked the systems and games. And the same can be said for Switch. By the time the Switch released I was already a fan p, but the reason I love Nintendo so much now is because of how much I love the Switch. Their amazing system has blown me away and changed how I play games to such an extent that I can’t help but be a huge fan. As opposed to the other way around where someone merely likes something because they’re a fan. The hybrid concept really is that amazing.
It’s quite possible Nintendo screws it up in the future and abandons the hybrid concept. I don’t think they will, but it is a possibility. And while I would still continue to buy their hardware because I genuinely do enjoy the games they create, I wouldn’t be anywhere near as much of a fan if they opted for that route. My allegiance now lies with the hybrid concept as much as it does Nintendo. And I guarantee if anyone else makes a hybrid system like Switch, and it gets a brand new Monster Hunter built ground up, and equivalent library of amazing games, I’d love it every bit as much as Switch. Obviously any other system would be at a disadvantage because they’re not creating games like Super Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Xenoblade Chronicles, etc. but if they had games just as good, I’d be just as much a fan.
My hope is that we hit the diminishing returns limit with PS/Xbox to where adding more power yields such negligible perceptible differences, they say screw it, may as well take the extra power and performance gains and make a hybrid. If we can have games that look essentially the same to the point nobody can even hardly tell a difference, but could offer them in hybrid format, why wouldn’t we? I’m not sure how long it will take but we will hit that limit one day and I’m inclined to believe we’re already hitting it. How much better are PS6 games really going to look? At this point it just feels like the cheerleaders will find reasons to see how much better it is but to a normal person just looking at the games I struggle to believe anyone will be able to tell a difference side by side with current gen. But maybe I’m wrong and it takes another two generations. That’s not the point. The point is we will hit that threshold in the coming years and when that day comes there will be nothing left to do with those power gains except go hybrid. I think it is... inevitable. We live in a mobile world. Phones went cellular, computers went wireless with laptops and tablets, movies went wireless with streaming, even headphones have gone mobile and wireless. Gaming is the only holdout. And while there are legitimate reasons for that now (substantial gains were still made with the new generation consoles), we will hit that point where a generational leap offers no noticeable difference visually or performance wise. It’s just going to be stacking up resolution and frame rates to insane levels that are completely unnecessary. When that day comes, I believe they’ll decide to make their next console a sidestep into a hybrid, like how Wii U sidestepped into Switch. Same fidelity basically, but hybrid. I think this will take 15 years before the technology gets to the point games can look like PS5 games on a portable system, but we will get there eventually. Switch is already paving the way, setting up the market.
I was also totally a PSP guy honestly. I owe that system a lot for being the console that got me into Megami Tensei and Final Fantasy in addition to being the first console I played games like Mega Man X and Ghosts n' Goblins on.
I know the DS was the more widely owned and welcomed handheld of the two but the PSP was such an amazing system, especially for Sony's first crack at trying to match Nintendo's handheld success. The Switch kind of recaptured that magic that I first felt playing the PSP as a kid. It may not have my childhood classics like Persona 3 and Peace Walker, but the Switch is basically the full realization of what Sony wanted handheld gaming to become in my eyes. I still have my 3000 model from 2011. I sunk god knows how many hours into stuff like LittleBigPlanet, Chains of Olympus, Peace Walker, the Final Fantasy ports, ModNation Racers, Secret Agent Clank, the Persona 1 and 2 remakes, Persona 3 Portable and so much other stuff.
Other than a few games I absolutely love, the PSP's library has never really done much for me.
3DS was my portal to Megami Tensei. SO many good MegaTen games on that system.
I also played my first 3D Zelda on it.
@Cynas If you didn't buy it for collection purposes only, I'd say you should go ahead and play it. It's a really solid port of a classic game. If you keep the box and stuff in good condition, it should maintain its value.
Just... be sure to play it with headphones on. It was an early, but still very effective, showcase for 3D audio. I remember the effect of a fly buzzing around my ear really wowed me when I first played the PSP version.
I’d better not. Any more text walls and I might need a publisher 😉
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
I just swapped my HDMI cable I was using for Switch, from the stock one to a 2.1 HDMI (I know switch can’t output 4K, but the stock cable is still limited to 1080p I think), and then checked out Monster Hunter Rise, comparing by toggling the cable on and off, and ya, it makes a pretty noticeable difference. The game looks insanely gorgeous for a Switch title, but if you get really close to the 4KTV screen you can see all of the imperfections. But they are so much worse without the M cable on. Like, noticeably worse. Edges are way more jagged, face detail didn’t look as clear, backgrounds didn’t look quite as sharp. I’m actually kind of taken aback by the delta between off and on. I’m not sure if the new cable had anything to do with that, or if it’s just been so long since I looked at a switch game on the TV without the mClassic on I’d forgotten what a difference it makes.
But suffice it to say, this little experiment has given me a whole new appreciation for mClassic. Overall I suppose yeah, it’s still relatively small changes. But because Switch games run between 720p and 1080p, even small deltas can have a reasonably sized impact on perceived fidelity.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
I'll take Mario 64 over Odyssey any day of the week. The game design and philosophy is so much more appealing to me, even when replaying it for 3D Collection.
You can stand 64's horrendous controls? I salute you, I tried recently, and I wanted to throw the controller at the screen. The few things I give 64 over Odyssey are the levels and the sense of accomplishment. Besides that, 64 has aged horribly.
What do you mean? The controls are the same they've always been. I find them to be tight and responsive. Odyssey feels floaty and loose to me. I've been saying that on this board since Odyssey came out. Something just didn't feel right about Mario's physics and control feel, at least to me. Maybe I'm just used to the tighter feel of the earlier 3D games.
@rallydefault Having played both games relatively recently, I couldn't disagree more. Mario's movement in 64 is VERY slippery. He feels weightless, and any kind of forward motion makes him feel like he's bulldozing his way forward. I never felt fully in control of Mario in that game. And that's putting aside the fact that even the tiniest changes in level geometry will send him sliding across terrains made of rock and grass like he's on the world's slipperiest ice.
I imagine the issue is that his every movement is intimately tied to slight alterations of the tall and stiff analog stick on the N64. The sense of movement translates horribly to modern pads.
Mario has a sense of weight in Odyssey. His every movement is deliberate, and the combination of the "heavier" feel to the character and the actually decent physics makes his movements much tighter.
And, in general, that has been true of every other 3D Mario game I've played. Only Mario 64 feels terrible to control.
@rallydefault I have to agree with Ralizah. Having studied the actual movement system of Mario 64 in depth, there's a few things to take into account. Gravity in that game is (I'm pretty sure) the strongest in any 3D Mario. This does have the benefit of landing faster, which might be why you see the controls as more responsive. But even Sunshine was about 40% slower in falling acceleration. (Though, do keep in mind I'm pretty sure terminal velocity is also higher in later titles, thus making many jumps take the same time or even less time than 64.)
When it comes to running, 64 will (usually, as long as slopes aren't involved) just instantly go to max speed upon moving the control stick all the way. Odyssey on the other hand has a small bit of speeding up when movement starts (consistently). Stopping functions about the same in each.
But what's probably the most notable difference in ground movement is Mario 64's turn radius. This is the love it or hate it part of the physics IMO. In 64, you can't just instantly turn while moving (at any speed). Instead, if you're moving at all, you'd have a turn radius as you turned around.
This actually works pretty well for giving it a nice feel while moving at a high speeds in open areas. But... in return, at low speeds and on tight platforms Mario will suddenly move in directions the player didn't press, typically walking right off to his doom.
Everything from Sunshine onward ditched that, giving full control of Mario to the player and never moving him in directions the player didn't press. I'd wager though that that turn radius and the higher gravity is why it feels more weighty to you, despite Mario's actual movements being far more refined in terms of momentum handling in later titles.
@link3710
But you're proving my point when you say 64's gravity seems the "strongest in any 3D Mario" - that gives weight to the character, which is exactly what I said. I mean... that's what gravity does. It gives weight. It provides a huge swath of the physics.
As for the momentum, again, that's exactly what I love. Yes, slopes and stuff affect him, but it feels better and (although dumb to say for a video game) more realistic to me. If you're gonna belly wop against a sloped surface, yea, you're not gonna go far, and then you're gonna start to reverse direction and come back down. You gotta compensate. To jump, double jump, and triple jump in 64 just feels awesome, and I know where it's gonna take me. Jumping in Odyssey feels slippery and I never quite know where I'm gonna land, for some reason.
Also, Mario's moveset in 64 is the de facto suite, in my opinion. No throwing of the hat to hit enemies or create platforms or spin a little circle around you. Just the good old-fashioned slide, long jump (probably my favorite), and, yes, the punch-punch-kick combo lol "Ya, wa, HOO!" It's just classic and I still love it to this day.
@Ralizah
So, yea, we just disagree totally lol (P.S. I hate Sunshine)
@rallydefault I wasn't proving your point exactly. I was trying to get across that Mario is quite literally heavier in Mario 64, which is what you mean, but that's not what most people mean when they talk about weight.
When people say a character feels weighty, they mean that the character has a proper sense of momentum and don't start and stop on a dime. That when they got an enemy theres a proper feeling impact. That slopes affect the characters speed while running.
Basically, the physics in Odyssey are much more in line with what our real world sensibilities tell us to expect. But 64's physics are so simple, that you can learn them if you spend enough time playing. To a new player, Odyssey will almost always feel better though.
My problem with the physics in 64 is how the game breaks its own rules regarding them.
Sometimes you turn on a dime. Sometimes you walk in an arc.
Sometimes you can walk up a near 180 degree stone structure, and in that same level a gentle stone slope is impassable.
Some slopes made of ice you can walk up. Some you can't.
It's not the surface determining what you can and can't walk up, which leads me to believe it's the angle of the slopes, but even then that's not true either.
Its like the game teaches you early on what is too steep and what isn't, how Mario turns and reacts to surfaces.
And then it quickly drops it.
Now Playing: Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Crash Bandicoot 4
@link3710
lol but if that's what I mean, then that's my point. I'm not talking about "most people," I'm talking about me. You did prove my point.
It's fine, I'm not here to "win" any kind of discussion. I'm just speaking my point that 64's physics, gravity, and character movement feel better to me than Odyssey's. I had issues with Odyssey's controls (and game design with too many moons and only a couple worlds I felt were truly fun) from the start, and as a result it became the only 3D Mario I haven't 100% multiple times. There were parts of Odyssey that were enjoyable, but for me it was shockingly flawed in some of the fundamental systems that just made the whole experience flat for me. I remember moving Mario for the first time and just being like... this doesn't feel right. And even after dozens and dozens of hours, I still couldn't get into the groove of it.
I think what's surprising (yet probably shouldn't be) is that by now there doesn't seem to be 95-100% consistency in how Mario moves from game to game. Odyssey moves differently to SM3DW, which moves differently to Galaxy, which moves differently to Sunshine, which moves differently to 64. But input devices change, game design changes, etc so I don't know why I'm surprised or even typing this FML
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
Pretty much impossible given the massive change in control scheme and camera control between 3D World and Odyssey. Something like 8 directional movement made perfect sense in 3D World, given that the levels were presented from a fixed camera angle, meaning they could line up the world with those 8 directional axis. It would make no sense at all in Odyssey though.
@Haruki_NLI It never fails to get me that slight inclines on grassy surfaces will send Mario flying, but you can run straight up those pillars in Shifting Sand Land. It clearly took Ninendo a bit to figure out how to accurately model Mario's relationship to sloped surfaces.
@rallydefault Pity. Sunshine holds up quite a bit better, IMO, in terms of the physics, controls, and Mario's moveset. I really liked how, unlike 64, which had a lot of pointless movements (does anyone ever punch anything or crawl anywhere in that game?), every aspect of Mario's moveset is useful in Sunshine.
Although I'll admit that the lack of long jumping was disappointing. I'm glad they brought that back in Galaxy.
@Ralizah
What?! You don't punch stuff in 64?! That's like all I do lol And jump kicks. Crawling is for when you're really not sure what's going on with a slim platform (or your life).
I have such a fun time with 64. Back when I was a kid, I would just shmooze around for hours just exploring every little nook and cranny. Tripe jumping all over the place like it was my job. Doing crazy slides down those pyramids lol And then 3D Collection came out and... I'm doing the exact same thing lol It's just the definition of "classic" for me. I think Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are in the top 5 games ever made on any system, and that's saying a lot.
Sunshine's FLUDD controls make me wish I doing my taxes instead. And like you said, they took away the long jump. Ugh.
@gcunit every 3D Mario game Nintendo use a Engine that give the game, it distinct physic and mechanics, that why you dont see Super Mario Galaxy or Super 3D World physics and mechanics in others 3D Mario games(with the exceptions of remakes and sequels of this games).
I believe Republic was listed in Nintendo's "coming soon" section for a few hours before it was pulled down. To my knowledge it's a stealth game, although I've personally never played it.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,252 games (as of April 30th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
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