@Octane
Yea, I definitely learned my lesson about buying into machines. I think a lot of that hinges on me really using my PC a lot, though. I probably would be much happier with the PS4/Xbox One (or both, possibly) if I didn't game on my PC, because I wouldn't already have access to most of these games with more options and better graphics. So, I can see somebody like you who doesn't really use a PC to game being quite happy with a PS4 because those games are "new" to you and look pretty good on the console. But for a PC gamer, it's kind of like... "wow, that looks like garbage" lol AND we get more options in terms of controllers to use and such.
But I think on the whole system refresh timeline, we're just going to have to disagree. I know my perspective trends very negative, but I see the Scorpio and Neo exclusives rearing their ugly heads MUCH sooner than 3 years from now. Much sooner. I won't say more than that, but it's honestly what I think. And when that happens... yea, I'll be pretty well and done with Sony/Microsoft consoles for a while.
As for the NX, I'll wait and see what games it's going to launch with. Then I'll make my decision, per your advice.
Nah, I don't see the vanilla XB1/PS4 being cut off from new games until around 2019/2020, which is when the Scorpio 2 and Neo 2 or whatever should launch. Even then there will still be quite a few games supported by the vanilla XB1/PS4.
My view is that the Scorpio/Neo aren't "mid-gen upgrades", they're just new hardware. I think the concept of a "console generation" is no more, and that those days are over. The rigidly defined console generation as we know them describes a period of new hardware releases that effectively hits the reset button and requires the platform holders to rebuild their ecosystems again and again.
Now the idea is that all your stuff will carry over to future hardware - backwards compatibility from here on out - as well as forwards compatibility with at least the successor hardware (in some cases 2 or more successors). This would bring the console industry to modern tech standards.
Eventually older models will be cut off from new games, but that won't be a strict cut off decided by Sony and Microsoft - that's up to the developers. Games like FIFA and Madden may very well still be supported by the XB1/PS4 despite the Scorpio 2/Neo 2 being out. Hell, I could very well see Just Dance 2027 launch in 2026 when the Scorpio 4/Neo 4 are out still be playable on the XB1/PS4 you bought in 2013.
This would be very healthy for the industry as a whole, and Sony and Microsoft won't have to keep rebuilding their ecosystems.
As for what this means for Nintendo? Well, since this would essentially make the Xbox and PlayStation ecosystems set in stone, having some powerhouse console that gets all those gamers to switch is pretty much an impossibility. From Nintendo's current market position, they're forced to rebuild their ecosystem with NX, and would have to get those gamers to buy into their ecosystem in addition to the Xbox or PlayStation ecosystem.
@BiasedSonyFan People in poorer countries would. There's a reason why FIFA continued to release on PS2 even after the PS4 launched.
In Just Dance's case, the graphics don't actually matter, so it being supported by the XB1/PS4 even after Scorpio 4/Neo 4 are out makes sense simply because they could run it.
But the problem with a hybrid device is that it needs to satisfy both home console and handheld gamers. Not everyone will want both. Some may prefer handheld gaming, some many prefer home console/big screen gaming. As such the success of the NX is contingent that it can deliver both a good handheld and home console experience.
Why does this have to mean it's directly competing with the XBOne and PS4 by running all the same titles? Really, Nintendo have never done that in the home console space. People will cite the Gamecube as a time when Nintendo did do that but they really didn't. Because of vast architectural differences the Gamecube was in the last generation of exclusive libraries.
You can argue that they should till the cows come home. But if it's based on the Tegra it's pretty clear that they don't care about that much. If they wanted to compete on spec they could have easily chased that idea. Pushed the NX out as just another one of the three that happens to have Mario on it. But right or wrong they have no interest in that. And I'm not sure I disagree. A cheaper product that can still run content like this?
Who cares if EA rolls their eyes at the spec sheet! And frankly, I think the market is better if we have more options rather than less. Call me old fashioned, I like the idea of having a choice. I liked it when console wars were about whether Mario was better than Sonic. Because even as a tech-junkie, I'm sick of the argument about how many FPS one box runs the same game at vs another.
"Sony/Microsoft talked such big games about these things being powerful enough to do what they wanted, and then they hit their fans with these $399-$499 mid-gen "refreshes" that, let's face it, are most definitely going to become mandatory for the newest games in two years, tops. It's gonna happen, just wait and see."
This is exactly what I was saying earlier.
The PS2 was considered to be a powerful machine when it was launched, even among PCs. So was the PS3. Both the PS2 and the PS3 had custom console hardware that used low-level APIs. Even when PCs with better specifications were released, the PS2 and PS3 could still compete graphically for years because of the advantages they had as consoles (e.g. not as expensive, custom hardware, low-level APIs for programming), so they didn't need upgrades. The PS4, however, basically uses underpowered and off-the-shelf PC hardware that developers already knew how to program. That helped developers to skip the traditional console programming learning curve, but as a result they've already maxed out the PS4's hardware. The PS4 NEO also uses underpowered hardware, so the same problem will likely happen a couple of years after it's launched. Together, the PS4 and the PS4 NEO cost almost $1000 USD. A PC at that price could be bought at one time and have much longer longevity. If gamers don't care for Sony exclusives, then there's no reason to buy Sony consoles.
If Nintendo doesn't screw up selling their consoles, then they could regain a share of the console market, after all. It just depends on how successful (sales-wise) the console upgrades will be as well as the NX's own sales success. Some gamers are probably going to catch on to Sony's scheme and switch to PCs.
I can agree with you that ps3 was very technically competent, but I don't agree with your assessment of the ps2. It might have been on par with mid-range PCs, but it wasn't the power horse you seem to remember it by.
Gen 7 of the consoles are an anomaly among the generations. The power twins were quite formidable when they showed up, but they also bled money for years. At the same time as their parent companies also showed a decline in sales. If I were to guess, the gaming divisions had lots of pressure on them to be profitable. Except for Nintendo which apparently printed their own money at the time. Sony and MS want to mitigate this in the future, and they are doing it by future proofing their consoles, if they don't have to reinstall their install base every fifth year, they become much more resilient against bad times.
And you are wrong about the cost of PS4/Neo. They are much more costly than $1000 if you factor in things such as inflated prices on games and paying for online.
The PS2 had some impressive tech when it was released. The PS2's Emotion Engine was no slouch; I think some developers said that they still haven't maxed it out.
It wasn't that impressive, PC gaming was in full swing at the moment and beat it readily. Also if no one maxed it out, does it make it impressive or cumbersome to use?
Ps2 main draw was never graphics. It was the price point paired with a DVD player.
@BiasedSonyFan
The fact that the PS2 used a didn't use x86 wasn't an advantage. Consoles developed in that era were all hard to develop for because they used lower powered and cheaper chips. The fact that it took a while to get the most out of older console architectures was a bad thing. The fact that the XBox was just a PC? That made things super easy for them, it was a HUGE advantage.
I mean just for one measure. The same year the PS2 launched? The cheapest "ok for gaming" pre-built PC I can find had 64MB of RAM and 16MB of VRAM on a TNT2. Also a 10GB HDD, CD-ROM and a 500Mhz Celeron. The PS2 had 32MB of RAM total with a 300Mhz MIPS CPU. No storage but a DVD-ROM. Surprisingly similar prices though I don't know how much more of a margin there was on the PS2 in Australia.
I'm struggling to do a raw performance comparison but still. The PS2 was sitting at around 6GFLOPs in total. The XBox came out about three years later with a 20GFLOPs. That's quite a leap. I'm not sure they could have made that much of a leap if the PS2 was as ahead as you claim.
@BiasedSonyFan
As I said, there was a reason why they used weird architectures back in the day. It was because x86 wasn't cheap enough or efficient enough to be used in consoles. Which was still an issue when the XBox launched. But it did have its advantages which the XBox did use. These days? There's no cost or efficiency issues with x86. You can buy thumbdrive sized PCs for $100AU or something similarly stupid. So why not?
Anyways, why are we even discussing this? Do you even have a point other than just general nostalgia for the days when consoles were hard to develop for? As if somehow when multi-platform games didn't really exist to the degree they do now it was better. Ok, if you think that? I'm not sure I agree. But in some kind of obscure way I guess it's maybe possibly applies to the NX in some respects. The NX will be the PS2 to the PS4's XBox....
.... maybe
....
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An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions
Here are some ideas for the future. I would help however I cant go to college right now to build new hardware and software. Does this imagination look with limitation or is open minded. I have no clue how to support the future of this media.
Ideas for console titles
Nintendo NX, Nintendo Pixie (Pi from math about circles, see from eye senses), Nintendo Neptune (Sega)
Sony PS5, Sony PS6, Sony PS7, Sony PS8
New Microsft console series:
Alienware consoles: Steam Machine...
Tron Eco (PS5)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles videogames
skateboards
pizzas
Splinter
Leonardo
Michaelangelo
Raphael
Donatello
Shredder
April O'niel
Toga
Razar
foes from the comic books
Maze Builder
Donkey Kong country 4
climb on walls, hold on the edges of cliffs, swing on vines, barrels with gun powder use with torches, barrels with water, barrels with
alcohol, background on paths are traversable such as doors, alot o layers in certain places like mine carts, big barrels to sneak with
and roll inside.
Castlevania Belmont's Adventure (Castlevania IV remake)
Castlevania Dracula Crux (Aria of Sorrow remake)
Plants Vs Zombies (Online version)
Quest NX (RPG sequel of Quest 64)
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Midnight (Courage, Farore, Pagusi/Pegusus flies to different moons, Greek mythology like Hercules: faunlike
race, centaurs from The Legend of Zelda, minotaur moblins minoblins, C. S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia)
The Legend of Zelda: (Airplane with airplane parts instead of a boat and train),
The Legend of Zelda: (Subway, train underground with mines with glowing ores)
The Legend of Zelda: Fairy Castles (2004 trailer)
The Legend of Zelda: Royal Starlight (Ganondorf's green magic in The Ocarina of Time looks like a green star, tall castles instead of
space travel, yellow star magic, red star magic, blue star magic)
A Russian Zelda game with palaces from Russia
Eskimo/Innuit, Innimo or Eskuit
Jodins
The Legend of Zelda Maker
is like top down Zelda games with original graphics
resembles ideas from A Link to the Past, Link's Awakenings, The Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass...
build story based Zelda games with text menus, interfaces, item menus, foes, and more
The Legend of Zelda Maker 2
is like the behind perspective with original graphics
choose combinations for techniques such as moves that resemble Helm Splitter
Choose between photographic (example: Twilight Princess) and cell shaded (Wind Waker)
The Legend of Zelda The Wind Waker 2
The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess II, III? (Greek Roman, action RPG like Zelda II, different use of purple and yellow magic is the
Twilight) horses: Epona, dragon riders, J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle Earth with flying Nazgul dragons (influence),
Graal Spellcraft (Includes strategy instead of Maloria and Zod gameplay)
F-Zero
spills: lava, sand, healing
Snowbal Fight
J. R. R. Tolkien European races
elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, trolls, hobbits, men
Megaman (with female characters and more male characters)
Sonic with Chaos
Harvest Moon (Online)
Dragoon (lagoons and dragon Riders)
dragon eggs, take care of dragons as pets and fighters, castles, shrines, palaces, dungeons, towers, shields, swords, bows, polearms,
throwing pikes, classes: preist, squires, scouts, mages, armor, clothes, bodies, armor, reigns, level dragons (0 through 80), swamps,
jungles, grove, glades, mountains, lakes, ponds, rivers, oceans, dragon magic: snow, lava, ice, flames, water, Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall,
top down perspectives, blue fire, red, yellow, and green, frosts: white, smogs: black, dragons are like individual Pokemon
Snowball Fights
snowforts
Prince of Persia (similar to the SNES and NES)
Super Mario RPG 2
Super Luigi
Luigi Moonshine
Sim City
Mario City
build mario buildings with roads like Rainbow roads in the sky,
Metroid Heroine (Like Metroid Fusion in 1st person)
Metroid Wonders (Like Super Metroid in Zelda perspective)
Shadow of the Colossus remake (with more story and more characters)
7th Saga Runes of Ticondera
World of Warcraft
Final Fantasy 7 (With entire story)
Marvel's Superman
Lex Luther (primary villain)
comic book villains as foes
Clark Kent/Superman: laser vision, super strength, week when close to krypton,
Shrek (Action RPG adventure)
Shrek the Ogre
Donkey the
The Nightmare Before Christmas
Jack Skelington rescues Jill Sandy
artistic impression of the movie
The Matrix Navras (Neo and all of his moves in his black and male kilt, stick controlls camera perspective)
The Lawnmower Man (Virtual reality and cyberspace)
Tron
The Wizard of Oz RPG
artistic impression of the movie as an RPG
description: A Vampire and a Wicca team up in a two player game
the Wicca character: broomsticks, huts with moss, towers, bow and arrow, Star of Wicca necklace, wicca magic
the vampire character: cottages, castles, halberds, swords, crossbow, a heart necklace, vampire magic,
Demon's Crest 2
Red Arreemer
Martial Arts: Bruce Lee
Last Airbender
Batman Caped Crusader (T)
motorcycles: Catwoman, Batman,
Joker, Harley Quinn, Harvey Two Face, Poison Ivy, Dr. Crane Scarecrow,
Splinter Cell
2 female ninjas and 2 male ninjas
Sam Fisher
new: actions, moves, manuvers, armor, clothes, equipment, tools, items
New ideas for Nintendo
Nintendo NX 1, Nintendo NX 2, and Nintendo NX 3
A Light Board is a square shaped technical device that could be a peripheral and innovative potential invention that
can be Automatic setup or manual macrod (Like on Graal Online)
Light Board Small
Light Board Medium
Light Board Large
Games (Like Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort): Chess, Checkers, Monopoly, Stratego, Sorry, Trivial Pursuit, Boulderdash, Risk, Uno, and other boardgames...
Floor Light Pad
DDR setup
Twister setup
Simple controller
C joy stick on the left, select and start in the center vertically of rectangle and square, A button on the right, L on the top left, R on the top right, and on/off button
in the middle on top.
complex controller
C joystick on top left, a 5 button start with triangles bellow C joystick, A B X Y on the top right, another joystick on bellow 4 buttons on top right, L1, ZL, R1, ZR,
reset and on/off on the top in the center.
TV touch screens that work compatible with colored laser pointer controllers
Nintendo Phone controller that contacts anyone including buddies and family
Nintendo NX controller with 2 joysticks and L and R
Nintendo NX Console and handheld Games made of cards that have SD card circuits and trading card size (like Pokemon cards)
Mouse Pad
Mouse controller (example: works with Mario Paint)
home console and handheld controller could look like the Nintendo NX screen with attatchments (Fingers keyboard, left and right attatchments)
list of characters
Pilaf
Raditz
Nappa
5 Ginyu Force
Frieza
Meta Frieza
Androids
Cell
Bibidi
Babidi
Majin Buu
Hirudegarn (portray much smaller in size)
Broly
Janemba
Yao
Shenron
Piccolo
Vegeta
Yamcha
Gohan
Goku
Goten
Trunks
Bulma
Chichi
Pan
Bra
King Kai
Krillin
Chaotsu
Tien
Grand Kai
Campaign (Fight through all villain characters with hero characters)
Story mode (Based on the TV cartoon story)
League of Legends
The Lord of the Rings Legions of The Enemy
The Sims
Graal Online servers converted and upgraded into Nintendo and new games
Graal Era Online
Era expansion 1
gangs against gangs: Black Holst, Blazian Bandits, etc.
Era expansion 2 City Sims
construction, policitics, no fighting, like The Sims, player statuses like hunger, thirst, hygene
Era expansion 3 Cops and Robbers
Era expansion 4 Sports
Era expansion 5 School (begin and a child and grow older)
Era Expansion 6 Events
Era Expansion 7 character builders
Era 2
3D
Zod Online
Zod expansion 1 pure classes (allowed to level up)
Zod expansion 2 binary classes with trainers (personal accounts)
Zod expansion 3 trinary classes with trainers (personal accounts)
Sim Ant sequels
ant eaters, anthills, logs, flags, multiplayer, command ants, ant ranks, ant breeds
Sim Bee (original)
Bee hives, honey, nectar from flowers, stinging with bees
Newgrounds animations as games
Stick Figures
Madness Combat (all of the subtitles represent each chapter)
NES Mario Brothers Online
other flash animation depictions
3 new Super Smash Bros
New characters: Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Majin Buu, Combo, Fulgore, Glacius, Jago, Orchid, Sora, Banjo Kazooie, Crono, Frog, Marle, Magus
Cartoon animation for each video game
ideas for Sensations (wired and wireless)
Smell box sprays scent with condensation
warm tasty vials inside of crates
small food
surround sound speakers
touch screen (TVs and controllers)
3D TVs similar to 3Ds
3D glasses
home projector with blank screen
vibration in shirts
vibration in pants
CDs including Vinyl size, gamecube size, Playstation size, and PSP size
circuits
cartridges
trading card sized SD cards
cube game
orb game, sphere
@christo71186 I deleted all of this post earlier, but on reflection, it didn't really achieve anything and just makes later references meaningless, so I've reinstated it.
But please try to be a bit more thoughtful about how you make your posts. This post looks quite like spam as it's so long and a bit off topic - this is a thread about speculating what the NX hardware/concept is, so a massive long list of game ideas is not really appropriate. Thanks.
@BiasedSonyFan
The fact that the PS2 used a didn't use x86 wasn't an advantage. Consoles developed in that era were all hard to develop for because they used lower powered and cheaper chips. The fact that it took a while to get the most out of older console architectures was a bad thing. The fact that the XBox was just a PC? That made things super easy for them, it was a HUGE advantage.
I mean just for one measure. The same year the PS2 launched? The cheapest "ok for gaming" pre-built PC I can find had 64MB of RAM and 16MB of VRAM on a TNT2. Also a 10GB HDD, CD-ROM and a 500Mhz Celeron. The PS2 had 32MB of RAM total with a 300Mhz MIPS CPU. No storage but a DVD-ROM. Surprisingly similar prices though I don't know how much more of a margin there was on the PS2 in Australia.
I'm struggling to do a raw performance comparison but still. The PS2 was sitting at around 6GFLOPs in total. The XBox came out about three years later with a 20GFLOPs. That's quite a leap. I'm not sure they could have made that much of a leap if the PS2 was as ahead as you claim.
.... also, why are we even talking about this?
and that PC could do 800x600 in resolution while the ps2 was stuck with SD TV resolutions.
@BiasedSonyFan I read those articles, they were quite painful to read. He somehow thinks it is a good thing to have a bus at 90% which is the equivalent to rush hour traffic. When you need to compute something you need it asap to not slow down. There is a reason every CPU today have multiple levels of caches. If I would venture a guess, the vdu cores were mostly used for particle effects.
@christo71186, that is some list of ideas. If the NX is hybrid console I hope they use a 3D screen again. I would also like to see a new Ice Climbers and F Zero games
and that PC could do 800x600 in resolution while the ps2 was stuck with SD TV resolutions.
True. But I'm not sure 800x600 or even 1024x768 is much to brag about when you're playing at 10fps.
I definitely had more than 10fps with tnt2.
Well obviously it would depend on the game, settings and so on. But I think it's fair to say that PC gamers these days have it pretty good. Mid-range machines can run the newest games at max settings and get 60fps at 1080p. It was a bit different in the early 2000s
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