Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@UmniKnight I'm hoping this embrace of mature content is a company-wide thing now. If nothing else, they should design their games in such a way that there can be content parity between different versions.

@MegaTen I'm not even necessarily opposed to games launching censored, but with the option of an uncensor patch for adults. That's the deal on Steam, and, honestly, I think it's a clever solution. That way everyone gets what they want.

What I don't appreciate is some moral authority trying to police the content I consume, or assuming that, because THEY find something objectionable, other people should as well. The world doesn't work that way. Different people have different values, and the whole mess only works out if people respect that fact.

@Ralizah 100% agree on that one, since they're basically forcing the same thing on everyone in a country, which is just a shameful display honestly.

@StuTwo Three things:

1) Let's not generalize about what people are like. Calling people uncomfortable with censorship "tentacle-rape consuming weeaboos" is akin to me calling people uncomfortable with the default content "SJW control freaks." It's unhelpful and prejudicial.

2) If the localization was limited to 13 year olds in bikinis, I'd agree with you, but there have been multiple alterations in various games of content that is way tamer than what you would see in any number of given Western cinema, literature, television, etc. It also feeds into the xenophobic perception of Japanese media as being "weird" or "extreme," when, really, our media is often just as bad.

3) Let's not pretend like the people engaging in censorship represent the population en masse. The population en masse doesn't care about this content either way. The only thing this censorship does is anger and punish gamers to try and curry favor with groups of people who broadly don't even play video games.

@MegaTen Oh, I don't mind it. It has some pros, aside it's cons, thankfully. And yes, I agree with choice. Choice is the most pro-consumer thing a developer can give to players. Choice of controls, choice of voices, choice in options and choice in regards to what to experience, and what not to experience.

@Ralizah My tongue was completely in my cheek when talking about the people carrying out localisations - it's a Friday and no-one needs me to deliver a dry sermon from the mound.

I disagree with you on your interpretation of what censorship actually is and I also disagree when it comes to evaluating what changes are necessary to be made in the localisation process. Neither of us will change our minds. But hey - that's fine. I'm not here to make everyone think the same as me!

I would say this though - personally I find Nintendo's localisation efforts to be first class and I think the level where their localisations are currently pitched is pretty much spot on. If companies were 'forced' to be more faithful and 'censor' less then the end consequence is that fewer big companies would take the risk in bringing games over from Japan.

This has nothing to do with xenophobia, morals/ethics, values, or whatever buzzword we want to use.

It's about making a product more marketable. You can't sell underage women in sexually provocative outfits without alienating a large portion of the western audience.

You can't sell a waifu simulator in general. Those types of games sell poorly in the US.

Unless there's something artisticlly significant about clevage that I'm missing. Because I like it as much as the next guy, but come on. It's no big loss. They aren't censoring anything actually cultural, like onigiri or Shinto shrines in FE.

Sweet cheese and crackers, I'd better shut off my StuTwo-creating nanites!

I kid. But I also agree. Localizing games actually means we get thise games. Heck, would anyone get the humor in EarthBound without the long process they took to adapt it?

@StuTwo I stand by your opinion as well. Personally, there is always a good reason why things get censored. We may not get it but they do. Me? I just want to play the game in English. Why get upset about censorship I was not meant to see or read anyway? Sometimes I disagree, most times I agree. But I always respect the publisher/developers' wishes in censorship. Or their lack of it.

@StuTwo Putting aside any concerns about censorship, the localization in Fire Emblem: Fates was VERY sloppy. Consider this example, which compares a fan-translated Japanese version with the American release.

This doesn't even compare the quality of translated dialogue. In this instance, a character-building support conversation is replaced with "..."

Presumably as a joke?

This is not the work of people who respect or value the original work.

@StuTwo And yet Xseed can bring them over without "localizing" them, Marvelous can do the same, Fire Emblem: Warriors, despite being Nintendo's IP, has not been touched by "localization" either.

As for Nintendo's localisation, it's getting better and even if I understood what the team of Fates wanted to do with the game, people bashed the localisation effort into the floor. That, and Nintendo tends to give less care to voices, in my opinion, in the form of typecasting being off, sometimes changing entire characters for no reason in the sake of localisation (Effie in Fates comes to mind)

@Caldorosso-E And yet, there are more and more visual novels coming on Steam and selling pretty darn well so far I'm aware, and these games tend to be "waifu simulators" or "dating sims".

@MegaTen The VA in Zelda was passable, since it wasn't the core of the game (if you ask me). Just a couple of cut-scenes with voices, otherwise just the iconic Zelda reactions.

My brother has had a lot of trouble accepting his disorder, he's getting there, but he wanted to be "normal" for a long time and got himself a lot of stress fighting what is basically a part himself. I've heard stories of people who went through life, fighting themselves only to find their answers at the age of 60+, which is arguably far worse than an early diagnosis. But such is life, there's nobody who doesn't have a woe or 2 in their life, right?

@Ralizah I'd say that's up there, but the worst part of that game would be Effie. The archetype of gentle-giant, a strong woman with a sweet voice nevertheless isn't alien in the West, is it? Yet they've turned her into a muscle-jock who talks about biceps, triceps, eating and bench-pressing all the time, with a voice actress who was instructed to replicate the voice of a man, which comes off as incredibly forced and silly.

@UmniKnight Yep. Nintendo's "localization" altered characters, dialogues, all kinds of things! One of the worst I've ever seen from a large company like Nintendo, to be honest. I really hope these same people aren't "localizing" the Switch version of Fire Emblem.

@Ralizah And if they are, I duly hope they've learned to leave some things intact. As they say, don't fix what isn't broken.

That aside, I've heard many stories of people influencing that localization, people that have now, apparently, been replaced so who knows.

@MegaTen Have a good day!

@UmniKnight Xseed are not a multi-billion dollar company whos biggest single strength in the market is that they are perceived to be a family friendly company though. They are under a fraction of the scrutiny of a company like Nintendo.

English language voice acting in video games is terrible in general.

@Ralizah I don't think it's a sign of disrespect for the original work though. They've looked at what the original authors wanted to communicate and assessed that the biggest thing to take away from that conversation is that they were both guarded, slightly enigmatic and secretive characters with a quietly under spoken respect and understanding towards each other despite being rivals.

Yes the elaborate extended text makes that explicit but it also works against its effectiveness. Which is better is a matter of taste but I think they achieve similar things.

Well didn't this devolve into a hot topic we will never see the end of. Watch, as it spins in circles tirelessly everytime someone breathes.

Anyway, anyone expecting XC2 amiibo to be announced?

@StuTwo Depends, I've played a "niche" Japanese game that was localised on Wii back in the day, that had big-name English VA in it. The game's name is Sengoku Basara: http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/video-games/Sengoku-Basar...

But Nintendo has already said that they're more open to receiving content that clashes with their "image". Family-friendly games are fine, and Nintendo should definitely continue making Yoshi, Kirby, Mario etc. But that doesn't mean they can't also take some other franchises in the other direction, like Metroid for example (let alone third-party content that does this, like DOOM and Wolfenstein). Nintendo is, in my opinion, at their best when they aim to make games for everyone, which they are doing right now.

@StuTwo They really don't achieve similar things. In the Japanese release, you get a sense of how harrowing their work is, their level of repute among others in their line of work, those sorts of things. In the "localization," you get elipses. No context, no replacement dialogue that communicates the same thing, just "dot dot dot." That's not a good translation, on any level.

I mean, I respect that this doesn't bother you, but I don't understand how you can say this is high quality work.

EDIT: I guess I'm just wondering what you would consider a "bad" translation.

@Ralizah In general it's a matter of preference. In Japanese you can densely adorn even a short passage of text with a lot of subtext and connotation - like the relationship between the characters, the degree of respect. Doing that in English is much more difficult.

In this particular case I don't expect hardened assassins who have been on rival sides of a conflict for years to suddenly meet and talk at length about their feelings. It would be a moment of silence where everything was said wordlessly. It doesn't work half as well in a game with static images as it would in a film but I think that's what they were attempting. Whether you think it's better or worse is a matter of taste.

As the French mathematician Pascal once said; "this is only so long because I didn't have time to make it any shorter".

A bad translation would be something of the type that we used to routinely get in the 8 and 16 bit days. Spoony bards and other such things that were outright wrong.

Now we're talking about how Nintendo handles translation, a form of localization.

Glad we moved on from that censorship nonsense.

@Caldorosso-E I'll say though, what they did to Tokyo Mirage Sessions was highly unnecessary. The way I see that piece of work, the team that was responsible had a very bad day, and felt like relieving themselves on that game.