Topic: Switch almost entirely bought by dudes over the age of 20.

@Ryu_Niiyama
I personally agree with NEStalgia that the better statement to make is that gaming culture is toxic; period.

If EVE Online has taught me anything, it is that trolls are always going for the target that will provide them the biggest reaction with the least amount of effort and that growing a thick skin will mostly immunize you from them.

However! This does NOT excuse or validate any of those behaviors and the trolls should be condemned by the bystanders; something I shamefully don't do enough. From my experience, I can safely tell you that the majority of people (introverted or not) won't confront a troll or bully for fear of retaliation. The trolls know this and openly abuse it in order to continue harassing anyone they target.

I think @NEStalgia's explanation for why this happens sums it up pretty nicely.

I would say the best way to combat this is Ralizah's approach. If they attack you for trying to help them understand why they are hurting you (or another person), then they can't be helped and should be ignored.

PS for @NEStalgia: Doxing (or Doxxing) is basically publicly revealing private or sensitive information about a person without their consent for malicious purposes. An example would be me posting your full address online with a call for people to firebomb it or releasing your full credit card number and pin so people can illegally charge purchases to it.

It's very serious and should always be reported to the proper authorities if you see it. Almost always an instant ban for most games and forums.

this is already a better gender and gaming discussion than the entirety of the internet the past 3+ years :V

(I intended to tack this onto my previous post, but I figured it would be more time-effective to type this out on an actual keyboard versus on my phone)

I'm still playing catch up with the posts in this thread (Yay! I'm not the only member of the wall of text club!), but I'd like to give my personal take on toxic social gaming.
I agree with the perspective that the gaming community can be very toxic to others as a whole, regardless of gender. Trolls or even normally decent people who have just had a bad day are liable to cut others down for some stupid reason or another that they feel makes them better. By disparaging others, this gives them power, and gives them the sick, self-gratifying fuel that they need to make their own issues disappear for a moment. A scapegoat, if you will. Often, they don't fear retribution as they feel that their anonymity protects them. Unfortunately, this is a negative trait of human nature that has existed long before the video game landscape.

I do feel, however, that toxicity towards women for playing video games is still a huge problem. I would argue that the gaming landscape isn't quite as male-dominant as it used to be, but now there seem to be types of games/genres that women are expected to either play or avoid. Many women are also considered "casual" gamers due to the games that they're stereotyped to; I feel that, like the term "normal", "casual" is a relative definition that varies from person to person. I acknowledge that the term exists, but I dislike when it's used in a negative connotation. Everyone has different likes and interests; if a guy wants to play something like Cooking Mama, I'm totally fine with that. A woman playing Metroid Prime? Fine by me.

I don't mind playing as a male protagonist (I'm one of those who wouldn't mind playing every Zelda game as Link, tbh), but I wouldn't mind seeing more games where the protagonist is female. A normally proportioned female, I might add. Franchises like Senran Kagura make me roll my eyes at the obvious male pandering that's going on there and more than ensures that I stay away. Some female protagonists are obviously kick-@$$ strong women (such as Samus Aran or Bayonetta) who can hold their own in a fight, but more than a few of them are also subject to some "eye candy" moments. As much as I like fantasy games, they're some of the worst offenders in this category.

Backtracking and slightly derailing to The Legend of Zelda for a moment, there's a reason that I like Princess Zelda so much better than Peach despite both falling prey to the "save the princess" cliche. Zelda, in many of the games that I've played (at least from A Link to the Past onward), is a strong character, one that aids Link when she can and proves that she's more than capable of taking care of herself in most later entries. Yes, she often needs saving, but normally she didn't end up in that situation by sitting around and doing nothing. Peach, on the other hand....Well, I know mainline Mario games aren't known for their strong story and character development, but how do you get kidnapped by Bowser that many times? Why would you sit around and just do nothing until the short, mustachioed plumber that you have a crush on shows up? At least she wasn't the damsel in distress in Super Mario 3D World.

Ironically, much of the criticism I've received about my gaming hobby has come from other females, mostly during my high school years. I've always been rather tomboyish anyway, and was singled out for other reasons, but needless to say gaming was one of them. I was seen as "not normal", "trying to be one of the boys", etc. Being a Nintendo gamer at that stage in life (which is when I really got into gaming), it was hard for me to strike up game conversations period when everyone else (mostly guys) was into playing FPS games like Halo and Call of Duty (which I'm not too fond of).

(This post may go through some further editing. Unfortunately I want to do more with my evening besides continually proofread my own wall of text. )

@Tyranexx
You hit the nail on the head here. A little weird that I can't heart any comments here like I can on the news articles; otherwise I would have done it plenty in this thread!

I had some things to say about the toxicity of gamer culture vs toxicity towards female gamers; but I can't seem to articulate it properly without it sounding weird. As a male gamer of age 19; I don't exactly have insight on what amounts to sexist cyberbullying. I'll probably make a post in the future when I can collect my thoughts better.

In general, I think it is EVERYONE'S responsibility to ensure we are all civil to each other regardless of gender/skin colour/etc, so I try to hold myself to a high standard. Probably the biggest step would be if we could all just accept that people have their own personality and having an uncommon interest for your demographic is not necessarily "bad".

It's almost like social contact and norms are not demographic or group isolated. Who knew.

Most opinions in this thread seem very valid, yet my take on it is different.

Mine is more: "oh my goodness, mean people on the internet! What a surprise!" If you think you suffer more abuse than anyone else or need games to feature role models you're off by a long mile. You act like a victim so you are a victim. It's just words and idiots - ignore, tell off, find people who are fun to hang with online and off.

The amount of german people that have had something to do with my mother would otherwise be a guinness world record number. No gender specifics even.

Meanwhile, I've seen the reverse bad on this forum too. People with unfavourable opinions are being isolated from the social group that feel they are collectively right. This isolation calls out the best behaviour in most of you guys: calling someone in the comments section without them even being part of it, attacking someone for a different take on the matter without them even vocalising it - while isolating them further from meaningful discussion.

THAT is the abuse I'm seeing online - social isolation and de-platforming whose sound you don't like - while joining "the club" that projects themselves as culture victims, inadvertently creating new ones that are actually real.

But they aren't the whiny type, gladly.

I'm not gonna reply to any one person here, just make a general comment about the discussion between the @Ryu_Niiyama post about toxicity and hostility towards women in gaming and this point. There still seems to be the misapprehension about what Ryu (and I) was saying. The post was not about toxicity towards men. It was not about toxicity in general. It was specifically about toxicity towards women. Someone coming in, quoting Ryu, striking out her words and adding his own instead and telling her he "fixed" her post is... It's the same thing as telling someone who is talking about rugby that they should be talking about football instead. Feel free to have your own discussion about football, but don't tell the person wanting to have a discussion about rugby that the only way they are allowed to be heard is if they talk about football instead. Keep in mind also that women get this all the time. Every day. All day. We are talked over, talked down to, ignored, dismissed. All the time. It gets... tiring. And sometimes we respond to yet another attempt to shut us down (even by someone who really doesn't realise that's what he's doing) with exasperation.

At no point were either Ryu or myself stating that there is no toxicity towards men. I can't speak for Ryu here, but I would not dispute that there is definitely hostility towards men. Neither of us stated that toxicity and hostility always and only comes from men, either (although ime nearly all of it does). But Ryu's original post that sparked this was specifically about women and how online hostility in the gaming community affects us, and how the industry treats women in games. Not about how it treats men, not about the general toxicity that also affects men, but How It Affects Women. Again, go ahead and have a discussion about general toxicity and hostility and how it affects men, it's a conversation well worth having. But don't tell someone who was trying to discuss something else that she can only discuss that something else if she also discusses what YOU want to discuss.

There is also an awful lot of victim blaming going on here, which is actually yet another example of generalised misogyny. The fault is not that of the people who react and are hurt by actions that are specifically meant to hurt them. The fault is within the people who do things to hurt other people. There are a lot of those people on the internet generally, we know. And yes, we already know a thick skin is necessary for interactions on the internet. But don't try telling someone who is getting doxxing/death threats because she posted on a gaming forum that she was going to buy a game that she is to blame for getting those threats.

@DizziParadise I couldn't agree more. I've been biting my tongue, but there are a whole lot of problematic things going on here. Far from being a good discussion, dudes here basically just shut down the conversation with a whole bunch of "I was just joking, can't you take a joke", "this is your fault for taking it personally", "not all men", "it happens to men too" and other deflections and distractions. I've seen this before, and it's definitely part of the problem, not part of the solution. This is the kind of thing that drives people away - not only the women involved, but everyone who came here looking for an inclusive community where where people listen and support eachother.

I know the posts were about how women in particular are affected.

I'm just wondering whether or not it's worthwhile to even ask how a death threat or anything else affects women in particular in different ways than anyone else.

I don't like getting them either. And it may feel different, yet I'm not sure whether or not women are disproportionally threatened like that. Any such talk in any community is bad. Any threats, downplaying or harassment is disrespectful and ethically questionable. Perhaps that is just what others were trying to communicate. So yes: if you're a woman receiving threats that is bad. If you're a man receiving them that's no different.

And who blames a victim in the first place? I will blame people when they consider themselves victims when they aren't. Getting threats? Not good. If you're buying a game you get threats? Not good. Simple math.

Which is not misogyny for anyone. That concept does not have anything to do with feelings, but with social oppression or exclusion in that case based on being female. In fact, I'd call it a downward social play if there's a need to label it anything specific. The sucky behaviour of people online is very real. The position of women in those communities is like any other group you'd specify. Because they are a minority, though, there's fewer social ground for them to stand on within those communities, that is something I've observed too.

And if you need to change female appearance or male appearance or gender or anything that is macho, or sexy, or has gender roles in play just because of hurt feelings or worse emotional connections - then yes, I'll assert there's something wrong with you instead.

I think it's true that gaming (and online culture in general) is toxic to all - not just women or minorities. It's also true that just because most gaming protagonists are white men that doesn't mean that every white man feels that they are represented. From that perspective I can understand the arguments that @erv and @NEStalgia are trying to put across. I think they're in good faith.

However issues of identity, culture and politics are all incredibly complex and personal. As a straight white man I can try to emphasise with the abuse that women and ethic or sexual minorities receive online by equating it to my own experiences. That is important because it can help to shape my behaviour for the better but it's ultimately not enough to actually understand because abuse is felt differently. I don't - and can't possibly ever - truly understand how deep any given insult or piece of abuse can cut to someone else.

I'd also say that might seem like very superficial "tokenism" - adding a black lead character in a game here or a female one there - to some can be important or even inspirational to others. Personally, in the majority of games, I don't see why there shouldn't or can't be the option to play as a character of any gender or colour with all seen as equally "cannon".

@StuTwo Regarding your last sentence, I'm the complete opposite. I don't want to pick and choose, and I generally dislike any form of avatar creator or choice between playable characters. Feels lazy to me. It's the developer's job to create a character that fits the rest of the world it lives in. I don't need the character be representative of me (if that was true, I wouldn't be able to enjoy any game at all!). As long as the character is interesting and well-written, I don't care what he/she looks like. Just don't make me choose, that's a big nope from me.

Just read this thread more or less from start to finish, and have been fascinated. As a straight, white male who pretty much exclusively plays single-player offline games, apart from the odd local multiplayer, I've been pretty much divorced from, and barely aware of, the toxicity of gamer culture. As a father of two young girls, however, whom I am pretty much initiating into gaming via the Switch, I am very worried. One of the reasons I have gravitated to Nintendo now, for the first time, is that it - hopefully - represents an escape from the macho, misogynist miasma that always seems to bubble up among the typical cadre of male gamers. While I respect NEStalgia trying to make a wider point about gamer culture, this environment IS different for women - and it can be utterly loathsome. I imagine it can be as bad from a homophobic aspect too, but prospective victims are less easily identified by their voices or avatars etc.

I want my daughters not to feel isolated, excluded or victimised if they ultimately choose to play games as a hobby. I want them to be represented not by pneumatic sex dolls but by heroines as strong and brave as, say, Lyra Belacqua or Violet Baudelaire. And I more or less agree with Octane: while being able to select the gender and appearance of your main protagonist should please all, it's a cop-out if the story doesn't come first. We need more different types of stories within gaming.

EDIT: Oh, and to stay on the actual thread topic, I am a male aged over 20 who bought the Switch - but I also wanted to share it with my daughters. Even my wife, who is staunchly anti-gaming (though fortunately not due to bad experiences with idiot-holes), has indicated she might sit down for some Mario Kart 8 Deluxe...

I just want to state I have not read the numerous alerts that have hit my inbox. I'm am currently on bereavement leave (I know that no one knew this but I am explaining why I haven't said anything yet). I'll have plenty to say and I will respond to everyone very late as heck once I return home next week. I suspect I'll be typing a book judging by the number of notification emails I have.

Alrighty lets see what I missed. First all thank you to everyone for respecting my request for peace, been a pretty hard two weeks.

@StuTwo Thank you but, I can be very long winded so I like to give folks the option to skip, especially if I'm talking to someone directly. I really wish this site had a PM function.

@Tyranexx My poor sister is a soprano so you can't mistake her for anything other than female on voice chat and like me when she has the choice she plays a female character, so first it was guys asking if she was really a girl, but as she got pretty high in a guild they used voice chat to plan...and oh boy it got ugly then. Demands for dates, rape threats, you name it. Got worse when she was picked to screen out applicants (I have no idea if that is the right way to say it, when she would explain my eyes sort of glazed over....) for her guild. I am a mezzo soprano/high contralto so sometimes I fool some people if I'm tired (not intentionally trying to deceive of course) but I've noticed how even people I'd gamed with for some time treated me differently. That is why I prefer to either game with good friends or local play, I don't have time for nonsense. MMOs do nothing for me though. I thought about joining For Honor since that is pretty much what it is anyway but I feel like games that are internet tethered/housed are rentals. I have too much of a back log to make the attempt. Sounds like it is time for a PC upgrade, go ahead, treat yourself.

text wall so behind spoilers

@NEStalgia I'm not sure how being against the sexism that women face on the regular is a "hot button" or why that would be odd that I, a woman would have an issue with it in the first place. I don't like racism and violence either, so would that also be deemed a hot button?

Lest you forget we are on a forum, I can't see you or hear you and as I've said many times on this site and even in my rebuttal to you tone is hard to read in text, smiley or not. Also that same tactic is also used to drown out women when we comment so I'm not going to back down from my reaction to you. If you want to argue against me, fine, however if you strike though my words and claim you fixed it given that text is the only way I can communicate here I take that as you putting your hand over my mouth and saying "what you meant to say was". I have never tolerated that here and I won't start now. So no, there hasn't been a change in how I respond at all. I was polite, straightforward (in my meandering way) and long winded. In fact the only thing I did differently from normal is that I more than once stated that I hoped that you didn't mean it the way that your text implied. I never do that for people I feel are trolls. I'll have a discussion all day, but you don't get to alter my words for your convenience and no I don't find it funny and I've corrected others for doing the same, so I've treated you the same as I have anyone else. Also it derails rather than prompts conversation hence my having to go back now and finally have a discussion with you about this in the first place.

I feel that trying to distill this into toxicity is universal is naive (and somewhat rude) for several reasons. I won't deny that there are some miserable, basically evil people in this world but if you think that it is a one size fits all sort of thing you are dead wrong. People are targeted for certain characteristics and most aggressors won't turn around and do to same carte blanche to others, especially if they feel they are a part of that same group.

Toxicity towards females in gaming is an aspect of sexism against women, something that we have been decrying forever, but from what you are saying is that women are incorrectly pointing out the problem because the real issue is those that threaten, abuse, rape, murder, fetishize, harass us for being female are just angry in general and that our attackers don't hate women and would do the exact same to any male. If that was the case there wouldn't be so many disproportionate instances of certain types of attacks against women (such as rape, the majority of which is still male perpetrated against female), women wouldn't have to fight for equality in treatment in society and female wouldn't be seen as derogatory by male culture still even in 2017. Women endure specific harassment because we are female. Full stop. No different than a racial minority being hated for the color of their skin. There is a specific trait that their attacker despises and attacks to demoralize, oppress and instill fear and they usually keep their attacks limited to members of those groups. However far be it for rape statistics, violence and harassment against females to have any weight at all and our constant complaints against such, since we are all treated equally (sarcasm right here).

However if you want to distill it down to a root cause then sure, male culture as I said earlier is the culprit. (for anyone just jumping into this I said male culture, not males in general) However, even with that male culture firmly puts females as lesser which makes it very easy for sexism to thrive and so in a hobby that was marketed primarily towards males (because marketing is sexist rather than being gender neutral and letting people like what they like) of course females are targeted, harassed and exiled. Honestly I think girls now will have a better chance of enjoying gaming because in part women in my age group and older are fighting for inclusion yet it is still an uphill battle. So again no, when I say that gaming is toxic against females, I'm not mistaken and I'm not excluding what men go through, but it isn't the same, it is disproportionate and there is in general less physical danger. A man might threaten to punch you but I doubt a ton of them will threaten to rape you. Also let us say that you are right, and these are just angry guys that hate everything and everyone, those that they attack still need to stand up and name the issue (and since they are being attacked with threats and words tailored to WHAT they are, then that is the language that must be addressed), AND those that aren't attacked still need to stop silently condoning such behavior. ...But I already said that. So again Not all men isn't good enough because enough men are ALLOWED to harass and intimidate women while other men do nothing. This isn't a damsel in distress line, it is a stop being an "innocent bystander line". Because a man isn't going to care that the woman he harasses says no or stop or leave me alone, but he has a better chance of at the very least shutting up if all the men around him turn their back on him. But that will never happen so I digress.

As far as the gaming angle which was what my first comment is about, women are often accepted and for better or for worse treated the same into gaming culture so long as our identity is not easily inferred. Or our interests not considered stereotypical. That bullies change their treatment of others if they realize that a person is on their (to borrow from you) "hot button" list implies an issue with bearers of characteristics that they consider hot buttons rather than general non discriminatory free for all hatred. Which just boils down to one of the many -isms of the world. So then that means that no they don't treat everyone with equal hatred and those that experience a disproportional amount of attacks might not just be anecdotally spitballing.

"The symptom is that it that women are the most apparent targets because they have proven to be the easiest targets that can be the most strongly intimidated/upset by fairly broad, generalized attacks that require no particular fishing for personal details to attack and can be applied categorically."

Have you wondered why you feel that way? The most common insult to a woman is to compare her to a female dog in heat; we aren't even human in the eyes of many in society. Women were bartered as chattel and used as broodmares no matter if we wanted to or not, and yes that still goes on today. Fight like a girl, dress like a woman, abortion rights (agreeing with it or not isn't the point: no uterus, no opinion), equal treatment (and pay) in the workforce, are things that we deal with BECAUSE we are female. A woman that attempts to speak out or think for herself or have any form of sexual agency is torn down even now. Before anyone tries to run with this, no I am not saying that as a citizen of the US that I have any idea the horror and atrocities that so many females go through in other less developed countries (for one I'd be killed in most of them...homosexuality is a death sentence in a number of places around the world still) however women still have to deal with issues that men don't even have to think about most of the time. Also using words and threats tailored to women isn't general at all, h word, b word, c word, s word all tailored to women and our female anatomy. However the part that is missing (or being ignored) is that those words often carry implied physical threat, and women suffer the most physical abuse from men, not other women. Heck I've been a martial artist most of my life and I have never hit another woman outside the dojo. I have had to physically correct a few men that thought they could put their hands on me and I'd meekly accept it though. Threats to rape are often issued to women be cause it is a very real, tangible fear that many women have experienced or have been raised to be prepared for. Women don't react that way because we are touchy or emotional or whatever nonsense men like to say about us to try to muddle the conversation and distract from our complaint, we react that way because it is a danger of being female in this world. Also because it is exhausting as heck. So having that injected into something that is supposed to be fun is beyond off-putting...and dangerous. Female culture has an entirely different problem imo of course.

I don't think you get to "lost cause" people, humanity as a whole is supposed to be somewhat rational and supposedly much of our behavior is shaped by societal reactions. Behavior that is deemed acceptable or is implicitly condoned because other members of the harassing group (in this case males) don't say or do anything only continues and spreads. So no being a horrible person isn't good enough as an excuse. Racism is very much alive today but most people won't willingly or publicly back it because at the very least it is frowned upon in modern society (of course that depends on what shade you are, racism tends to spotlight different groups to stay alive). However sexism doesn't really get the same sense of derision racism usually gets. There is always a line of backlash when dealing with sexism, "I was just kidding", "you can't say anything anymore"; all tinged with a note of exasperation. How dare a female want to be able to participate in a hobby or daily life and not be touched, catcalled, harassed, shunned for being female, insulted for being female or propositioned. Is it really so hard to leave others alone? Which is all anyone can ask for. I have no desire to rid the world of horrible people or for the purpose of this convo, horrible men because quite frankly people tend to hide a great deal of terrible traits and you would end up having to nuke half the planet to even begin to break even. What want is to be left alone and when that can't happen is to be treated fairly. If some socially inept MRA neckbeard wants to think that a woman's only purpose is to feed him a sandwich naked, I don't care. It is when those men actively make life difficult that is a problem. Which they do in spades like clock work. Males back up that mentality with stalking, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and unwanted sexual advances which can and have led right up to rape. Who wants to sit in a cesspool of that when you just want to have fun gaming? Why should women have to prove that we have a right to enjoy a hobby in peace just as much as men anyway?

If you are a jerk because you a emotionally dead inside and a spawn of the armpit of the universe then no, you won't seek to change, however if those around you don't accept your behavior then you won't have as many places to congregate and ruin the days of others. My point was never about eradicating hatred as that implies a faith in humanity I will never posses, however refinement is a constant process and that is applied to individuals and society as a whole. If we refuse to stand for what is right and to demand better of ourselves, then what worth do our lives have? We are no different from the rest of the animals on the planet. I personally feel that complacency allows cruelty and depravity to flourish and I won't stand for that and I won't shut up about it either; even if it just me arguing on a forum and being a general hard arse in my daily life.

However the biggest issue isn't the men that are toxic, it is the men that accept it and do nothing. It is the men that get so caught up in defending the male ego and honor instead of listening to female concerns and complaints that give sexist jerks a free pass or at most a slap on the wrist. However that will never change. If sexism is still so prevalent in daily life I've given up all hope on it ever changing in something that men have claimed as their own like gaming. So I shall do like I've always done. I'll tailor my habits to not deal with that element as much as possible and when confronted I'll speak out. And so it goes until humanity dies out.

Now on to your other post

Penny Arcade described it as the Internet F-wad theory and I'm inclined to agree. We can connect and talk to each other in so many ways, but we are still hidden behind usernames and avatars. There is no human connection or at least I feel it is dulled. Don't get me wrong I think it brings people that would have never met otherwise into commingled social groups, but anonymity makes it pretty easy to foster misunderstandings due to the lack of visual and verbal (if not using voice chat) cues. It is like emailing rather than picking up a phone or talking face to face, unless the person is really good at invoking emotion and describing their own (most people aren't) then that means that there is a greater room for misunderstanding. Also part of the reason why people can be mean to each other so easily online is that they can hide and not have to worry about the consequences to saying something face to face. Setting aside the lack of empathy (as that isn't even my strong suit in person) it just feels empty sometimes, like you are dealing with a persona and not a person.

I think I was lucky as a kid, I had most of the game systems in my circle of friends and it was more of a "your parents bought you that?" rather than a "something is wrong with you if you like A instead of B because A is the only way you can enjoy (blank hobby)." that is where I think adults make it worse. When you are a kid, there is often a communal aspect to it. At the very least you want to be nice to the kid with the games so you can go to their house and play. Adults drown in commercialism for a different reason, it is like we need stuff to validate our existence. Which would be fine if we didn't spend half the time putting down someone else's stuff instead of enjoying our own. Of course kids are now copying that so it should likely just go downhill from here. This tacks on to your playstation generation comment. I don't want to be the "In my day" woman, but I just want to say buy what you like, play what you like and SHUT UP. UGH speaking of which I have to pick up shogi. I still say that is is insane to be so anti Nintendo on a Nintendo fansite; you don't have to love everything they do but if you are willing to keep tabs on them you must like something? I wish I had that much free time to rail on something that I don't like but I have stuff to do.

I'm pretty introverted (despite what the text walls imply), the only thing I watch on TV is Japanese tv shows and super hero shows (and the Fosters... please somebody give me another show with married lesbians and LESS kids...) as I can't abide crude and vulgar humor. My brother often holds up his pinky when I speak to him to denote that I'm a snob...I'll take that with pride. I'm not a prude but I like to actually understand people when they say something. I'm weird like that. I'll never decry voice chat for those that like it but it will be a hard sell for me without friends only. As I said I'm not dealing with the harassment willingly. That would be like me hanging out at a KKK rally just for fun. No thanks.

Hey! I watched TMNT as a kid but I will never say anything that cheesy...(except when watching biker mice from mars but I do so in the privacy of my own home). Most of my reading time is spent on SQL books, programming books, astrophysics and mathematics books (my house looks like a college bookstore), woodworking books, martial arts books and Japanese classical literature and poetry (so pretty much most of the stuff in my profile here) I go the the movies once a year to see one Marvel flick and that is it. I'd say that Hollywood is in a rut, but I haven't seen enough to really try to judge that. Besides I don't speak when playing fighting games, too busy trying to poke a hole in my opponent's defense and learn their patterns. (...what fighting games have you been playing where people talk like that... o_0? I'm confused.)

Edit: Looks like NL ate some of my original statement. Also tried to clean up some of the typos.

@JasmineDragon Eh, I expect it always but it doesn't make it less surprising every time. Still I'll keep talking.

@DizziParadise Agreed. I don't really have much to add after the novel I already left in here earlier.

A serious debate, Ok I gotta do some reading cause theres huge novels to read here. I just came back from a religious debate from another site talking negatively about religion, and criticizing the God of Abraham, and so far no one has disagreed, or had an angry debate with me, even among many religious people. There were people that liked what I said and even thanked me for bringing a deep conversation. I would like to bring it to this site but I'm not sure if I'm aloud to talk about religious topics here, so if anyone knows if I can then i'll post it here on N Life.

I do have my thoughts on the topic of gender and video games so i'll see if I could come up with something, if other people haven't already said what I want to say. So time to start reading.

Not even joking here, I've never seen this sentiment stated unironicaly in my entire life.

I use to actually enjoy actually talking (or whatever you want to call it) with other people on topics over the internet, but I sort of just became indifferent to it all over time. Kind of like a cool, whatever attitude. Although the more I think about it, it's probably just me being lazy, but then again I've (like most other people I'd assume) have come to realize that conversations with complete strangers over the web tend to lead nowhere. So I usually just read things and see if I find any information and sources that hold significant value and are worth keeping in mind. I usually just interject here and there nowadays.

I can relate to this so much its not even funny. I got tired of all the misunderstandings and constant arguing too.

Having a diversity of characters would be cool. But honestly being hispanic myself, I never actually really cared about being represented in Video Games. What I care about more is gameplay, story, music and overall quality of game design. Thats what matters the most. And I still don't care if they don't add hispanics, I don't really need someone to represent me to be inspired. If they do add different ethnic groups in games, its more of a variety thing for me. Sometimes i'll pick the white person, sometimes black, asian, or woman. I basically treat it that same as if I were playing Mario Kart, and I switch it up between Mario, Bowser, Peach and Toad. Less about being represented and more off just having something new and different to use. It all depends on what I'm feeling today, and i'll sometimes mix it up so I just don't stay as one type of person.

In the United States there is a lot of complaining that minority groups are not being represented in media because of racism. Is it? Or is it something else? This isn't Americas past anymore where land is being taken from the Mexicans and Indians. White population makes up 77% of the population. Hispanics and Latinos makes up 17% of the population. Blacks make up 13%, and Asians including people from India make up 4%. Ratio wise there are more Whites than any other group, so of course they are more likely to be in media, theres just more of them walking around. Its like going to Japan and complain that there are not enough blacks or whites in media so racism.

They should not force ethnic diversity. Acting jobs should be based on your acting skills and not the color of your skin. They should not reject a white person for getting a role just to have diversity, especially if he/she can do the job better than a hispanic. Basically its a matter of earning your role rather than using your skin color. Its also dependent on the context of the movie, if its a movie that takes place in an Asian country then of course they'll cast more Asians. It all depends on the type of movie. But overall theres more likely to be whites than any other group in the media, its just plain mathematics. I saw a Korean music video where they had Asians play Egyptians, of course Egyptians look nothing like Asians, but being in a heavily Asian populated area its just easier for them to cast Asians.

In video games its a lot easier for them to have diversity, since characters are just made up, but even if they didn't I don't really care. I don't care that much about being represented, I just want to play a fun game. Its nice but not necessary for my enjoyment of the game.

Having woman characters can be inspirational, but woman can do fine without them. Saying that Woman needs characters to be inspired is an insult to woman. Its basically saying that without characters to represent them, then they are unable get inspiration for themselves to pursue careers and interests. That woman are weaklings and can't motivate themselves. Its nice to have someone to inspire, but a strong woman can inspire themselves with or without another woman.

These are some of my thought on these topics. I would like hear what other people think about this.

[quote=StuTwo]

Hmmm - in a sense, you are right. A strong woman doesn't need another woman to inspire her. But what about a six-year-old girl? What is she supposed to think when the brave, strong central hero of 80%-90% of children's books, games and films is male? I think it's getting better (it used to be 90%-100%, while modern output has a better balance), and there is a strong argument that boys don't read without male role models to identify with, but it does imply that strength and bravery are only male characteristics and, worse, that males are central and women are peripheral. Pah...