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Topic: Kirby and the Forgotten Land

Posts 81 to 100 of 403

Bolt_Strike

@VoidofLight This game actually looks even worse than 3D World in that regard. 3D World is actually pretty good at packing its levels with things to do. Even if it's something small like some coins, blocks, or enemies, they do much more with that space. Sprawling Savanna did seem somewhat more empty than say, Odyssey, but compared to this it's utterly packed. I would say the bigger issue with Sprawling Savanna is that the timer limited how much you can explore, exploration and time limits don't really work well together. Also 3D World wasn't really any less open than this, the only real difference is that the levels meld into the background more instead of being clusters of blocks floating in the sky (also something they pointed out in that Gamexplain video). Even beyond Sprawling Savanna, 3D World had its fair share of open levels (other examples: Super Bell Hill, Really Rolling Hills, Sunshine Seaside).

As for comparing it to Pokemon, I don't see any reason why you can't. Just because it's a different genre doesn't mean that they're not using similar design philosophies, and I see a lot of those here. Particularly in terms of putting more effort into making the background visuals look good than making a fun and functional world to interact with.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

VoidofLight

@Bolt_Strike The reason why I said pokemon couldn't be compared to Kirby is because they're two entirely different games with entirely different gameplay types.

As for 3D world, Nintendo had experience with the type of game before. 3D land, and previous 3D marios helped pave the way to 3D world... and 3D Land is largely forgotten about, as it wasn't great at all in comparison. Kirby hasn't had any past 3D games that were actually in the same playstyle as their 2D ones. There was one game that experimented with 3D, but other than that, this is the first one they ever truly made. That being said, the levels are pretty empty, and I'm not going to deny that. Most of the areas in the trailer are just empty halls with nothing in them at all, and while some of the areas looked less empty, others still looked fairly empty.

There's a chance that later trailers will show more of the game, and it'll be better, but I'm not truthfully expecting much, especially with how Star Allies was.

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

anynamereally

@Bolt_Strike this trailer was taken straight out from WIP build, so of course it looks a bit empty and undeveloped. Things could (and should) impove with time, let's look at it again somewhere in early 2022 closer to release.

anynamereally

Octane

@Bolt_Strike Problem with that video is that he assumes that all of those guardrails, rocks and whatnot are invisible barriers. Even stuff that looks explorable must have some kind of invisible wall. That seems very counterintuitive game design. If that is true, my interest couldn't be any lower.

@anynamereally Game trailers are made to provide with a sneak peak of what you will be playing, if the trailer isn't representative of the final game, then it's just a bad trailer.

Octane

chipia

@Octane Well, then let's hope that this IS just a bad trailer, because the emptiness of the world is offputting indeed.

Edited on by chipia

chipia

Buizel

Yeah I very much got the impression that this game will be more 3D World style than anything. Not that that's a problem at all --- the 3D World formula is excellent, plus many of the levels are plenty open enough. And I'm just very glad that HAL are finally making any jump into 3D.

I do wonder how Kirby will control in 3D. Infinite flying is unlikely to be a thing, and I wonder how swallowing will feel as a button press instead of down!

@chipia The Jak series was known for seamless transitions between areas, but I dunno if they'd be considered "open-world" by today's standards. The first game was essentially a number of interconnected levels, but with no wide-open hub as it wasn't technically achievable at the time. The second and third games have a bit more of a central hub...at the cost of the rest of the map feeling a bit tacked on rather than part of a larger open world.

At least 2'8".

Bolt_Strike

@anynamereally Games rarely make that many changes this close to release. Maybe some optimizations or minor graphical changes, but never anything as major as adding more content to a game.

@Octane They're not assuming, they're predicting. That's their bread and butter, they analyze trailers to predict what the game's going to be like, in no way are they saying for sure it'll be like that. The evidence overwhelmingly points towards it being a linear, enclosed experience, but we don't know for sure.

@Snaplocket Because the game looks empty. There's not a lot of game content populating the areas. For example, let's look at the shopping mall section:

Untitled

The screenshot of the first floor of the mall shows a fairly open court right before the escalator. Seems like a good place for you to run around and explore right? So what do they have there? Two enemies. That's it. No coins to collect, no blocks to break, no puzzles to solve, nothing to interact with it seems. Maybe there's a secret hidden off-camera, but that's about it. You can probably blow through this section in about 5 seconds before moving on. Doesn't that seem kind of short and dull? You see the same thing through most of the rest of the trailer. The game feels like a giant walking simulator with a smattering of enemies throughout.

They seem to have put way too much time and effort into making the background elements look good than making the actual, interactable portions of the level look fun and engaging. Again, it reminds me of some of the things they've done in 3D Pokemon games. Remember in XY when you had all of those Power Plant buildings but the doors were locked and we couldn't actually get to them? Or in SM where there was a giant golf course that we couldn't actually visit? Or in SwSh where there were buildings in the entire back half of Turffield that weren't explorable? I'm seeing similar design philosophies here. They're making it look like it's this giant city for us to run around in but we're probably not going to be able to interact with much of it and the levels themselves are just going to not just be linear and easy, but empty and simplistic affairs that we can blow through without much to engage with in the levels to keep us occupied.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Octane

It'll be incredibly stupid if you can't even hop the fences to access the area underneath the escalator.

Octane

kkslider5552000

I do think this might be the recurring issue Nintendo does where they save a lot of the cool stuff for the 2nd trailer. Which is fine here, because the novelty of a 3D Kirby is plenty for now.

It's hard to say exactly where the game is going. I mostly dislike the idea that 3D World is the only linear 3D platformer now, especially since this seems to have a better camera than 3D World quite frankly. This seems for the most part, exactly like a 3D platformer version of Kirby more than anything.

I also have my doubts it will be slow or lacking, its pretty clear this trailer was made to establish the setting and then sloooowly bring Kirby gameplay into it. To the point of it being weird about it, like they spent a minute of Kirby avoiding enemies for no apparent reason (unless they wanted to establish that you can walk around enemies now that its in 3D(!!!), which would be hilarious if that's what they were going for)

Edited on by kkslider5552000

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

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VoidofLight

@kkslider5552000 The issue of saving stuff for the second trailer is apparent with BotW 2, where they didn't show much at all, making it look more akin to a DLC than a full on sequel.

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

Henmii

I am wondering if it plays in our world, because of the overgrown buildings and stuff. Maybe it plays in Kyoto and you have to save HAL laboratories? Meta, right?!

Edited on by Henmii

Henmii

VoidofLight

@Henmii It's not our world, since our world is iced over completely in the Kirby Universe.

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

VoidofLight

@Henmii Yep. It’s a frozen planet.

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

NinChocolate

3D Kirby is really like the final nail in the Nintendo handheld coffin. The last of the active 2D franchises, one that primarily thrived on handhelds, finally going to 3D. The Nintendo handheld experience is now much more like TV console gaming, in scope. In general, I think it’s really too bad that bite-sized gaming from Nintendo has been left to mobile, or maybe was left to mobile as Pikmin AR is all that’s been announced lately, interestingly. But for the Kirby franchise in particular, I think this will be a great thing. With Kirby’s many copy abilities that are almost always attack based, unlike many of Mario’s transformations that channel into puzzle and stage unlocking, Kirby could be even better suited to the 2D to 3D change than Mario (at their base level), in theory of course.

To me, the trailer showed a game world that could be called more “roomy-world” than ‘open-world’. I think that’s good for Kirby given his floating, shotgun-style nature and ranged attack abilities. No doubt there will be tighter platforming beyond the trailer, maybe even some sidescrolling section callbacks, knowing HAL Labs. I’m a big fan of the Mario 3D land/world style, and I think Kirby is an even better fit for it than Mario (in theory).

Edited on by NinChocolate

NinChocolate

NinChocolate

@Snaplocket I’m not saying there aren’t anymore 2D games or will be in the future from any of Nintendo’s franchises, be it DK, Yoshi, Mario or Metroid. But the bulk of Kirby games were made for handheld with the series starting on game boy, and had yet to get a full 3D game till now. It was definitely a holdout, similar to the Pokémon series appearing on console, and with major roots in the handheld space. To me it further signifies the end of a handheld-focused era of gaming, not the end of 2D gaming.

Edited on by NinChocolate

NinChocolate

JaxonH

It's just evolving, that's all.

Many games will evolve to be bigger experiences not previously possible on handheld. These games were only smaller in scope due to hardware limitations. Lift the limitations and the games are free to become so much more.

But I'd argue Switch is pretty evenly split between console and handheld experiences.

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Bolt_Strike

I don't think this game spells the end for 2D Kirby. They could alternate, they've consistently released 2 Kirby games per console.

Bolt_Strike

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NinChocolate

There will certainly be more 2D Kirby’s as long as HAL’s making them. But it’s great the series can now incorporate more world building with a larger scope as this game breaks the sidescrolling tradition. It will probably expand the relevance of the Kirby franchise as 3D gaming is just the standard for young players these days. Young players that game on home consoles and not (dedicated) handhelds because they all have mobile phones in their pocket.

Edited on by NinChocolate

NinChocolate

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