Topic: Nintendo 64 (Switch Online)

Folks always forget that part when they make their grass is greener arguments.

That might be why, but its not any shorter than Kirby 64 in terms of quantity of levels. Not to mention Star Fox 64 being a high score game. So it does come across entirely as "well its not AS good so it must be bad actually" (see also: Star Fox and Sonic the Hedgehog).

I haven't bought the expansion pass yet (I did buy a Switch Online N64 controller though), but I will most likely do so in the future. Yet I can't deny seeing that screenshot of the room with Dark Link makes me think Nintendo should've done better. I don't think any Zelda fan can look at that and say: "That looks fine to me."

One thing I hate even more though, are the borders. It's the main reason why I haven't put much time into the NES/SNES games on Switch either. How hard is it to let us choose regular black borders?

@kkslider5552000 I think that Star Fox 64 - whilst clearly an arcade experience with a scoring mechanism - actually emphasises high scores less than Yoshi's Story (and much less than most arcade shooters). It's also a rollercoaster ride that was graphically pushing the boundaries when launched. Like many 2d platformers of the late 90's Yoshi's Story was absolutely slated by many for being backwards looking graphically.

A real part of the problem at the time with Yoshi's Story wasn't necessarily the lack of levels but the fact that it gives you a full playthrough and credits very quickly if you aren't interested in pushing a high score. If you just grab the first fruit on offer and play through the first level of each world it must be possible for a player to see the credits in about 5 minutes. Even on their first play through! In that particular era that was a no-no - though I do think that it's something that audiences are far more receptive to today.

I've played all of these games on my N64.

Have you played the games through the expansion pack?

@rallydefault
The most amusing thing about that PC gamer article is that the bulk of the work is being done by leaning off angry tweets. Both of which show the "dodgy net code" including the warning that people's internet connection is poor. Why are we taking that seriously at all? How on earth is that a scientific measure? What are we comparing it to?

Also their complaint seems to be that Nintendo are using Lockstep instead of rollback. I'm sorry what? The game is emulated, without entirely reworking the game how would they have the ability to rollback an individual player's state? Lockstep is about all they can do here. They could (and given it works at all surely do) add some kind of input delay. Maybe do some kind of connection test to work out how big that latency should be........... but they can only do so much.

I'm not sure why people are surprised it's not a perfect experience playing an N64 game with a controller cable that stretches across the Atlantic. London to New York is ~70ms, what size input delay would you say is acceptable for online play? Probably around 100ms I'd think? If your connection has a latency that high the ONLY options are either unacceptable input lag or hitching

I have many thoughts on how Nintendo basically put a giant "kick me" sign on their own back with that 50 dollar price point. "Please, be ultra critical of us, we are BEGGING for it". It's almost fascinating.

I also watched a video largely about someone going over the NSO pricing and it had comments saying he did a better job at explaining it than Nintendo did, which also adds to all this. There is (at the VERY least, comparably) good deal, but how many people even properly realize it? They probably just see family deal and 80 dollars, think its inherently not for them, and buy none of this instead.

I mean, its a good service for me (right down to the fact that I wasn't gonna play OOT soon anyway!) and Nintendo unintentionally dragged me into getting a better deal for myself than I was with the solo NSO subscription, but I could've seen this coming a mile away. It's mostly funny, but also infuriating because I generally like what is here and kinda want people to get the family plan, because this is probably a great use of 10 dollars a year (especially if they add more to it to a similar degree they did for NSO, which had zero SNES games and zero battle royale games at launch). Nintendo stop making a thing I like look as bad as possible, thx.

@kkslider5552000
They could've definitely softened a lot of the criticism by leaning into the DLC component of the service more. In my mind the classic games portion of this service is the bonus not the core value. If they had a second DLC that could've lined up at launch it would've calmed things down a lot I think. Unfortunately the DLC they have coming out now (Smash/Hyrule Warriors) is second wave DLC content they've had available for purchase for months

But even without DLC they could've dug something out of their vault and pushed it out. Just drag out Pushmo, Rhythm Heaven or NES Remix or something, make it available on the eShop at a cost but also bundle with NSO+. There'd still be some of the whine but at least it'd be much easier to counter. And it would've made a clear signal that NSO+ is about more than just the N64 games

If they just "drag out something" (of their arse or where from exactly?) it would be just as rushed as N64 NSO.

I want a good Pullblox and an even better Rhythm Paradise. You can't just pull em out of nothing. Someone needs to develop those games. Pullblox is by Intelligent Systems who are supposedly working on a Fire Emblem and/or Paper Mario remake and are supervising Advance Wars 1+2. Yeah, just cancel more important games for a rushed Pullblox to calm those people that are angry about something entirely different.

And Rhythm Paradise is made with a musician who is not owned by Nintendo. Just like EarthBound there cannot be a sophisticated and real sequel without that "outside" person.

No one wanted stupid extras. All we want for 40€/50$ is a N64 emulator that is on par with the 15 year old N64 emulator that we had on Wii, and good N64 games!

@skywake I have this game on Wii U (and the first one on 3DS). I think it's a great puzzler and personally I would double dip if it was a physical Switch release.

Also you make it sound like Wii U games are quick and easy ports. No, they're not. It takes resources and time to port them to the completely different system architecture that is inside Switch.

You could throw this and a dozen more games at me for free on the service, it's not going to solve the problem.
Until Nintendo fixes the N64's visual performance issues (which shouldn't be too difficult) people will view it negatively. I'm sure Nintendo's already on it. They fixed the graphical glitches in the 3D All-Stars collection soon after release as well. The outcry might be neccessary or else Nintendo might ignore the issue.

@SKTTR
You don't get what I'm saying. The N64 criticism is front and centre because people see NSO+ as JUST about N64 games. And it's inflamed even further because the price they are asking is relatively high for "just N64 games". I don't have an issue with the price of NSO+ but that's mostly because I see N64 as the bonus. I'm getting a family discount on the Animal Crossing DLC by not purchasing outright and I just happen to also get N64 games with it

If they had offered more on day 1? Even if it was a quick port of something they already had from the Wii U like Pullblox or NES Remix. Or dropping an as-is Wii title on there. The N64 portion of the service would have to justify it's price significantly less than it currently does. People would still complain, people love to complain. But the whine about N64 issues would be significantly less potent if the N64 content wasn't seen as the only draw

@skywake Yeah, but N64 is its main draw (along with Mega Drive). N64 is the centre of interest and the centre of Nintendo's advertisement for the NSO expansion pack.

33 million people had a N64 back then. That's more than a third of Switch's userbase. And many still have one (it's probably Nintendo's most sturdy machine).
Ocarina of Time is regarded as one of the best games of all time. There's nothing wrong to want and expect the best N64 experience on the latest Nintendo console, especially for the price.

I have already given up. Even if they fix the issues it seems they won't do anything about the borders. I'm out.

N64 on Wii and Wii U is better. This will cast a bit of a shadow on our beloved Switch, just like Joycon drift and great Wii U and 3DS features they abandoned (voice chat and many other things).

Switch is going to do well regardless.
We're not starving for great games are we?

At least as a single player game, so far Mario Kart 64 is better than I remember it being. I was never really into Mario Kart 64 growing up and I always looked back at it as the standard Mario Kart before it got interesting (quite frankly I didn't like Mario Kart until Double Dash came out and didn't love it until DS). I'm stunned I went back to Toad's Turnpike and liked it in particular. Maybe its because I never bought 8 Deluxe and have played so little Mario Kart in recent years that I'm kinder to a weaker entry in the series, I dunno.

Though I did always like it aesthetically. The use of 2d sprites was a great way to get past trying to make a good looking kart racer in 3D in 1996. And the actual 3D parts are good for the time or charmingly...limited. Also the music is great, probably still one of the best soundtracks of the series.

Dr. Mario 64 however sure is Dr. Mario. Feel the same way about Dr. Mario as a whole as I did Mario Kart 64 until this week. It exists, its fine, I like other comparable puzzle games more.

I do like that Dr Mario 64 has many ties to Wario Land 3, one of my favorite GBC games.

Again, my point was literally to say that the heavy criticism of the N64 portion of this service is due to the fact that people do see it as N64 first. Because of the way it was announced and the lack of non-classic games content at this stage for it outside of the AC DLC. If they some other carrot on day 1 the endless clickbaity videos about the N64 "issues" would be less potent

It was also more than 20 years ago. I can pretty much guarantee you that significantly less than a third of Switch owners had an N64. And it kinda shows in a bit of the online reaction I think. I've seen more than a few posts critical of the quality of N64 titles on NSO who cite things that were limitations on the N64 itself. For example there was a post I saw where someone said they demanded a refund from Nintendo for NSO+ because there was no music in 4 player mode in Mario Kart 64. And other complaints about poor framerates

I really have to disagree with you here. If you take away the online modes on NSO which the Wii and Wii U VC services lacked what complaints are there about this service? Some incorrectly rendered fog in Ocarina of Time. That's about it.

Compare that to the Wii which had component output at 480p at most so you don't get the higher render resolution you have on the Switch there. Which is something that's actually pretty decent on Switch. Also modern TVs don't really put much effort into their Compoent/Composite scalers so you're probably getting a garbage output there in addition to probably significant input lag for the same reason. Oh, and the Wii Shop is dead now anyways

Then there was the Wii U which improves on the render resolution of the Wii so it's closer to Switch in that aspect. However I definitely remember the Wii U VC not being particularly great. Maybe not N64 specifically but I remember a lot of games looked either dark or washed out. GBA was particularly bad from memory. Also while the GamePad was fantastic for off-tv play the nature of the Wii U meant you had a heavily compressed image. When you got this with classic games it was... a bit less acceptable in my mind. In my mind 3DS was the better place to play N64 games in the Wii U/3DS era

So definitely in my mind NSO+ is a better experience than the VC if even just for what the Switch is. Regardless of whether the emulation itself is "technically better"

If you think Nintendo 64 games are better on the Wii u then I’m sorry you haven’t tried the NSO 64 and going with the internets heresay

@Player_One I'm sure as hell not gonna Support Nintendo's BS.

@Snatcher what is Nintendos BS

@YusseiWarrior3000 you haven’t got it yet. It’s worth it just for the dlc. It’s cheapens the price if you form a family group.