Topic: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

@ThanosReXXX Just butting in to point out that Prime 3 wasn't really any easier. They just renamed the difficulty levels, with Veteran being the old Normal and Hypermode being the old Hard (There were only two difficulty levels in the first two games). Basically, they just added an easier difficulty to make the game more accessible, but they failed to make that clear.

Edit: Whoops, called Veteran Hard by mistake.

@NEStalgia Well, thanks a bunch, pal. Back to the Xbox 360 thread with you. Haven't you got any external hard drives that need listening to?

@link3710 Oh, I agree, but seeing as @JackEatsSparrows only mentioned Prime 2, that was the only thing that I responded to, obviously. All of the games had their ups and downs, that will hopefully be addressed to some extent in the fourth game, but they are classics nonetheless. And well-deserved too...

@NEStalgia You forgot Blast Ball.

@ThanosReXXX hmm.. What does my time in here has to do with Metroid? I saw your disclaimer. But what was I supposed to do? If I am disagreeing with you that doesn't mean I am offended. Your approach just seemed to be quite unfruitful and sorry if I was belittle but I can read without the boldings thanks.

About that statement (about the knowledge of Metroid). Believe me I want to say this most unoffensive way. It just sounds funny when you want some openmindness from someone who disagrees with you when you yourself have already decided what should be the consensus of the next Metroid Prime. What there is to left to conversate then if you already think that other views are just absolutely wrong? I don't mean that you or anyone have to buy my idea, but I am sensing some echo chamber vibes here.

About cherrypicking:

• you guys are worried that the open world would kill the tension
• I am saying that open world doesn't have to be some wide large space.

Hard to cherrypick anymore.

That's it for my part with this childish distraction. I am willing to return real conversation If there is somebody interested.

@Zkibu Doesn't have so much to do with Metroid as about having a feel for how we communicate with each other. The additional comments of others should tell you more about that. Nobody but you was offended about what I said. And bolding words isn't offensive, it is simply meant to emphasize words, to underline importance. If I was writing words in capitals, then I could understand where you're coming from, but in this case not really.

As for your idea: you started the discussion, no one agreed with you, and when we tried to explain the when and why, all you did was emphasize your own point, and in the process labeling ours as not being valid, we not wanting change and so on and so on. So, no offense, but who is having difficulties with having a normal discussion here?

Personally, I was just looking for some middle ground, or a better explanation from you than "Metroid should be more like Breath of the Wild or Ultima because reasons". You said it's not about the specific gameplay in these games, but you didn't really go into a whole lot of detail about how we should see that work in practice then.

So, give that another try, and we'll see what comes of it. I already previously added that when Samus is in space/off-planet, that there could be space battles or whatever, to mix it up a little bit, but we do like the isolated and claustrophobic feel, because... well, because that is what Metroid is about.

Or to be more precise: that's what Metroid Prime is about. Nintendo themselves have put that idea in our minds, well at least: in most of our minds, by giving it that name, hinting at there being a connection with the trilogy, which would at the very least require some kind of similarity between the new game and the previous three. Upending that tried and tested formula, would instantly create a disconnect for most of us.
(as in: "well, whatever kind of Metroid game this is, I don't know, but it most certainly isn't a Metroid Prime game, regardless of what Nintendo labeled it as.")

Nintendo created expectations, and those need to be met. So, I really do believe that there is very little room for them to radically change stuff, whether for the sake of it, or whether because it's actually possible hardware-wise.

Changes can certainly be made, environments made bigger and so on, but that doesn't mean that it all of a sudden has to become an open world game. And if it isn't an open-wide space, then we might as well call it a sandbox game instead of open world, which would make it a different discussion altogether.

The devil is in the details, as they say, so if you're up to it, sketch us a bit more of a fleshed-out idea and who knows, we may not be so opposed to your opinion as we are now, after all...

I'm perfectly willing to listen, as long as you give us a bit more to go on than just saying "Metroid should be more like BotW".

Silly Thanos, all Nintendo franchises have to be open world because of the success of Breath of the Wild and Odyssey. It’s what the consumers want!

Am I really the only one in here who has no problems with @Zkibu ideas? They seem pretty reasonable to me. There are more ways to go about Metroid without losing it’s identity. Thinking you know how Metroid works or should work only tells us you have little imagination. And hey, it’s just some ideas, no need to take views out of context and to such extreme. I would love to see them try to take a spin at a dark soulish formula. I see great potential.

Otherwise, great conversation, keep it up

@NEStalgia Federation Force isn't exactly a bad game, just unremarkable with a Metroid Prime skin over it. People really just hate it because it was the only Metroid-related thing after five years.

@link3710 Even on Veteran Prime 3 is a lot easier than Prime 1 or 2 because activating Hypermode (the Phazon) completely destroys every enemy. The HP you lose is nothing compared to how much HP you'll gain back from fallen enemies. Hypermode difficulty is a different story where enemies can take much more beating, do much more damage, and Dark Samus and Aurora Unit 313 at the end are extremely difficult, more than GameCube Boost Guardian in Prime 2, but on Normal and Veteran Prime 3 is much easier than Prime 1 and 2 on their own Normal and Veteran difficulties.

@ThanosReXXX This is getting ridiculous. You really wanted to continue that nonsense? Why would anyone be offended when they are too busy in trying to troll me?

3rd time. All of these points I have presented in this thread earlier and some of them directly to you. For some reason you and nobody have actually really commented on these. @EvilLucario commented on linearity but didn't really explain how he is measuring the popularity. You have just completed your hat trick of ignoring my points when you said "Metroid should be like BoTW". So it 's pretty hard to have a conversation here.

I said:

• not excact copy of BoTW just adopt the open world and adjust it in Metroid universe.
• it's not like there hasn't been any open world in earlier Metroids
• openworld and unlinearity walk hand in hand pretty well and getting lost in alien planet should suit pretty well in Metroid
• open world doesn't have to be large wide spaces
• planet would open slowly as the players gear and skills get better. They can return some earlier place filled with difficult enemies and this time beat them
• more replay value when experienced players can choose to take on difficult enemies early on.
• Metroids don't use doors
• there are different areas like in every Metroid game, it doesn't mean the corridors would be gone. There are outdoors places in every Metroid too.
• differentiate with difficulty like it was originally designed

You are of course welcome to give your input.

this is the most pointlessly aggressive discussion, what is happening

This whole argument is a bit silly, Metroid Prime 4 won’t be too different from the rest because it’s a numbered entry. If it was called something like Metroid Prime: The Ancient Hunter, I would expect a vastly different playstyle.

Isn’t Metroid Prime already open world in comparison to 2D games?

I guess the main takeaway I’m getting from your points is to remove doors that require beams or missiles, while still keeping environmental locks like water, cracked walls, large chasms, etc. (similar to area locks in BotW such as tall cliffs, rain, temperatures, ocean)
I’m supposing that the motivation to acquire beams and missiles would be to more easily defeat enemies?
I mean, I get it, that may sound neat. I just know I personally don’t feel like Prime is restricted by its world progression to warrant a change. It’s definitely a lot more open than 90%+ of shooters.

@JackEatsSparrows No. Actually, you could say it's harder to sequence break the Prime games like you can in Super Metroid and Zero Mission. It's possible, but all unintentional like ghetto jumping to get the Plasma Beam early. There's a more set direction of item acquisition in Prime than Super Metroid and Zero Mission.

@EvilLucario I'll be honest, I don't use Hypermode when I play Prime 3. It always felt like cheating.

I used Hypermode on Prime 3 but I've only played Prime 3 once and that was like 10 years ago. The game's fine but nowhere near as good as 1 and 2. If Prime Trilogy does happen for Switch and they get rid of that stupid friend voucher system I'll probably replay all 3 rather than just 1 and 2.

@link3710 That's mostly because Hypermode was a last-minute addition that ruined a lot of the combat balance. They tried to mitigate it by having enemies that could also use Hypermode, but all that did was incentivize you to use Hypermode anyway since trying to kill them without Hypermode takes an ungodly amount of time, especially in the Pirate Homeworld.

I'll be honest, I have no memory of hypermode breaking the game, maybe you all just played it wrong :V

Back in 1986 Zelda 1 and Metroid 1 both were technically just "action-adventures".
Zelda was a topdown fantasy action-adventure, Metroid was a sidescrolling sci-fi action-adventure.

The exact same genre, played from a different perspective (and with an opposite theme) to make them look like two very different games when in reality they share the same gameplay mechanics: Both had huge open spaces to traverse through from the get-go and both had many places that you were locked out of until you got a bunch of permanent items.

Zelda 3 and Metroid 3 share even more obvious parallels, being redefined. They both became less openworldy and more structured, but they still allowed plenty of paths to branch out to have the player go his own way for the most part. The metroidvania spirit was on its peak, the metroidvania gameplay was perfected. The metroidvania genre was born. But it was just action-adventure, topdown and sidescrolling, and it had no name until years later when someone from Konami used the Zelda 3/Metroid 3 gameplay mechanics and applied them to one of their Castlevania games.

Metroid Prime is a series that always showed some impressive graphics. An openworld-overworld alien planet that could impress the people. And then separate dungeons that lead into the planet or into space that would please the fans. It could work if you allow the game to have the best of both worlds.

One huge open world area in Metroid Prime 4 would make the game feel bigger and better and would open it up for a new audience that wasn't interested before. The open world should be only an addition though. I don't want Metroid to lose its claustrophobic underground areas or anything else that made the game iconic. The new direction should only add something that wasn't there before. It has to keep the old goods.

If you ask me what studio's able to do openworld Metroid justice, I'd give all my trust to Monolithsoft. They know how to design openworld alien planets and giant roaming alien beasts.

No idea what exactly you're arguing about. But if it's about making Metroid open-world, I think that would be a terrible idea.

Metroid has such a focused game loop, it depends on calculated pacing so the distance between each new power is fairly constant. It's also a fairly one-note experience. There isn't much in the way of a series of different objectives. It's mostly just the 1 mission. That wouldn't translate to an open-world game very well. Open-worlds need to have a range of objectives in order to make exploration make sense (because a range of objectives gives you more destinations to head to).

Unless by "open-world", you just mean slightly wider open areas and fewer repetitive corridors. That would be fine. I think those were mostly to allow dynamic loading on the heavily restricted hardware.

@JackEatsSparrows I guess one can say it's openworldish. Especially later on. One of my points was that perhaps it would be wise to remove artificial blocks that don't make sense (animals don't use doors). That could actually help to make the game more immersive.

@SKTTR Thanks you said it much better than me. Maybe sometimes you just have pictured everything that you are going to write in your head, but then it doesn't translate that well on the keyboard. Monolith would be interesting, I mean they are really good at creating surreal looking places and creatures. however I have my doubts how well they could change the gameplay of JRPG to FPA and anime style to more western look. Retro's advantage is probably that they need to deliver this time and really well. That sort of pressure might drive them do great things.