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Topic: 2019 will redeem 2018

Posts 61 to 80 of 128

Harmonie

@toiletduck I accept Breath of the Wild as a fantastic Nintendo game, but I do not count it toward the Switch. It did not make me want a Switch at all. I had a Wii U already, so I had no need for a Switch for that game. The only game from 2017 that I needed a Switch for was Super Mario Odyssey.

I've always heard that Splatoon 2 feels more like a port than a true sequel. However, I can't speak one way or the other as I've never played the franchise at all and have no interest in doing so. Either way, I've never heard a lot of raving about Splatoon 2 in particular, the hype seems to be around the franchise as a whole.

Harmonie

Nintendo Network ID: WoodwindsRock

EvilLucario

@Harmonie To be fair, Splatoon is a shooter, and an online-focused one at that. You can't really do all that much to change mechanics as much as you can in Mario, Zelda, or even Xenoblade. It's definitely similar in core gameplay and moves, but people saying it feels like a port probably have not played many shooters and their sequels, because you can't always have a drastic leap up in mechanics per game.

Plus there's still brand-new stuff in Splatoon 2 and not everything from Splatoon 1 returned, so regardless it's still a sequel.

Nintendo fans are just more accustomed to getting a big boost in quality between sequels. Which is totally fine, but given the context of Splatoon and shooter genres to begin with, I don't think there was all that much Nintendo could have done.

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

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NEStalgia

@EvilLucario I used that same argument when Splatoon 2 came out. However over the first 6 months, I and many others of the Splatoon hardcore started more and more ceeding that it was indeed an enhanced port. It launched with little more than a patch, with the exact same drip feed of the same weapons, half the same maps, much of the same clothes (less of it in fact!), the same 3 ranked modes....I mean NOTHING different beyond patch grade tweaking that could and should have been patched on WiiU had they not dropped development to move to the "sequel." They added Salmon Run on a timer which was the most popular thing at that time because it was the only new thing along with the new tutorial campaign.

After the 6 month mark they've perhaps added enough starting with Clam Blitz (which makes me pine for when there were only 3 modes ) and maybe after the first 6 months it became a real sequel. Problem is a lot of the faithful burned out right around when they launched Clam Blitz and saw only the "Splatoon 1.5" era of the game. If it became a sequel eventually it was too long after the launch to secure that good faith for the core crowd.

Ironically I'm convinced they gimped the early part of the game because they were waiting for the paid online to go active and to use it as bait....and then ended up delaying it a full year plus, making early Splatoon 2 flailing while incomplete.

NEStalgia

EvilLucario

@NEStalgia There is some stuff you can't patch out like specials, which were drastically changed in Splatoon 2. Overall balance and new single-player challenges also make it new to begin with. Even pushing aside the multiplayer, single-player was improved with allowing every weapon to be used. And that's really just the base game.

If Call of Duty and Battlefield can get away with some minimal changes or even removal of content (haha Black Ops campaign) to be considered a sequel, then Splatoon can as well. All the talk about "real sequels" and the like is extremely arbitrary, especially in a genre that can't afford too much change.

Of course if you want to lump ALL of those examples as an enhanced port then by all means, at least that's consistent. But they are still new games by the end of the day.

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

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Grumblevolcano

I feel Splatoon 2 falls into a similar category as Smash Ultimate to be honest. If you see Splatoon 2 as an enhanced port you likely also see Smash Ultimate as an enhanced port.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

NEStalgia

@EvilLucario True in terms of specials. The balance changes were easily a patch, and the single player....lets face it Splatoon single player (DLC excluded) is an advanced tutorial and little more.

COD and Battlefield on the other hand, at least until the present one get complete new story driven cinematic campaigns each entry. Even if it had no multiplayer it's still a roughly complete game. Yeah the new one got rid of the campaign....that's....well...it's interesting.... But Splatoon 2, "we changed your specials" is not a reason to spend $60. It's not a sequel. Again it was literally LESS clothes, and the SAME weapons plus a few new ones, drip fed in the same pattern and method over months, like it was the first time all over again. To grind for them playing the same four game modes. Even COD changes more than that between iterations. And Battlefield jumps around entire eras and locations requiring a ton of new assets. Again, I feel that after that 6 months, maybe enough changed, but if we're measuring up through 2017, it was 1.5 at best. I'm someone who defended it as a "true" sequel for all the same reasons you're saying in that time...but after that time, I finally came to my senses. MW2 is not BLOPS3 is not Ghosts is not WWII. BF4 is not BF1 is not BF5. They're quite different with a complete story driven campaign in the box. (Except BLOPS 4. Good luck to them going the R6 Siege route...it may work on brand power.)

Splatoon 2 just did not offer the change of content that those franchises do. It was a port, then souped up with some changes, maybe bigger future plans (after the paid online was to come out) and the maps were broken But it was far more of the same than having the last 3 Battlefield games or the last 3 CODs.

@Grumblevolcano indeed I do see both as an enhanced port as well....although, "enhanced port" is a little lowballing that one since it brings way more to the table that was not in the predecessor than Splatoon did in terms of being more of a collection bundle of the last 4 games all in one box. In that regard it's more like the Mega Man Collection or the DMC HD Collection (other platforms.)

NEStalgia

Grumblevolcano

I think Splatoon Ultimate is a fitting name for Splatoon 2, it's a new game that has mostly returning content.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

JasmineDragon

@FaeKnight It just fits a certain narrative better.

A: 2017 wasn't all that great, the Switch only got one 1st-party game.

B: You don't count BOTW?

A: PORT.

B: it was built from the ground up for Wii U amd Switch simultaneously?

A: Still doesn't count, because I played the same game on Wii U.

B: Isn't that how multiplat releases are supposed to be?

A: PORT!!!!

B: Okay, what about 1-2 Switch?

A: Are you kidding? That was a tech demo. It should have been a pack-in.

B: That "tech demo" has sold 2 million copies.

A: Only in Japan, broski. Those guys will buy anything Nintendo pushes out.

B: Actually the majority of its sales were in Europe.

A: TECH DEMOOOOO!!!!!

B: Le sigh. What about Splatoon 2?

A: Port! It's exactly like Splatoon.

B: Yeah, not so much. New weapons, balance changes, new maps, new hosts, new single-player content. It's a sequel.

A: Um, well, um.... still doesn't count, because it still feels like playing the first game.

B: You mean, just like how Smash Bros still feels like Smash Bros in its fourth iteration, or like how Mortal Kombat still feels like Mortal Kombat? You know what, forget it. What about ARMS? Surely you'll grant that ARMS was neither a port nor a sequel?

A: ARMS failed, Broseph. Nobody cares about ARMS.

B: It's sold 2 million copies and its lobbies are always busy.

A: Well, I didn't buy it, so let's call it a failure.

B: That makes sense. Can we talk about Xenoblade Chronicles 2?

A: Wasn't as good as XC.

B: So it doesn't count?

A: You got it, bruh.

B: I'm not even going to bother asking about Snipperclips. So, to sum it up, out of seven original games Nintendo produced for the the Switch in 2017, you honestly only count Mario?

A: THAT'S WHAT I'M TELLING YOU, BRUH. NINTENDO ONLY PUBLISHED ONE ORIGINAL GAME FOR THE SWITCH. AND 2018 WAS EVEN WORSE.

Edited on by JasmineDragon

Switch FC: SW-5152-0041-1364
Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.

NEStalgia

@Grumblevolcano Splatoon Deluxe was the name going around at the time Ultimate seems pretentious. Smash at least has multiple games to pack into the box. Splatoon had 1 that was killed off with it's console just as it was getting its stride

NEStalgia

EvilLucario

@NEStalgia I mean, it's not really that new content that's for sure, but I would argue there was still enough added to make it a sequel. Not a lot, but just enough. And again, a "true sequel"'s definition is extremely arbitrary.

Metroid, Xenoblade, EarthBound shill

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NEStalgia

@EvilLucario A new game implies you're playing mostly new content. An enhanced re-release means you're re-playing the same content, perhaps modified, perhaps with a small portion of new content. Up to January, Splatoon 2 was very much the latter. Smash Ultimate is also the latter, however, that one deserves a little less scorn as it's a very big compilation bundle of many other games in the series, so it's a true value pack with HD assets of non HD content in the game. Splatoon was just an upres and copy with some new maps and a few new weapons plus Salmon run. The Quake 1 mod scene did more than that for free....

NEStalgia

StephenYap3

@ieatdragonz "Yoshi looks to be better than Kirby"

I'm actually the opposite. Kirby Star Allies may have been safe a lot, but it still kicks tail and is the first true multiplayer traditional Kirby game since Return to Dream Land on Wii back in 2011.

Meanwhile, as someone who loved Yoshi's Island SNES and Woolly World, this upcoming Switch game isn't looking good at all to me. The different plane gameplay feels tacked-on and the inability to aim while moving is pretty disappointing already. Hopefully the delay will ensure quality done to the final release. I really don't want another Yoshi's Island DS, Yoshi Touch n Go, Topsy-Turvy, or New Island in terms of quality.

StephenYap3

Harmonie

It's really unfair to even remotely insinuate that Super Smash Bros Ultimate could be an enhanced port. Even if you wanted to argue that enhanced ports are thinly defined (I disagree), Ultimate is well beyond those boundaries. Enhanced ports are based extensively and undeniably on one entry, the port they're coming from. Ultimate is clearly its own game, the style, character models, and their animations are all completely new. There is no way in the world that is a port. The thing about Ultimate is that it is, as has been noted, a sort of compilation game. It makes a lot of its appeal by bringing back all of the characters from ALL previous games as well as a massive amount of stages. It is a different approach from previous Super Smash Bros titles, but there's nothing about it that is a port.

As for Splatoon 2, I already stated that I have never played the franchise at all, so I'm only going by what others said. I will not speak about that, because I really do not know.

Harmonie

Nintendo Network ID: WoodwindsRock

toiletduck

@JasmineDragon thanks for going through the trouble for this, seriously appreciate it and I hoop you saved it somewhere because you will need it again

toiletduck

Switch Friend Code: SW-2231-9448-5129

StephenYap3

Harmonie wrote:

At least 2019 has the core Pokemon game (unlike the cheap, shoddy LGP/E). However, it could really be the case where it's yet another Switch year where the most exciting exclusive by a wide margin comes out at the end of the year.

@Harmonie

Er, at least Let's Go is implementing some features that I hope to see in a mainline game in the series (i.e. visible Wild Pokémon, Following Pokémon, Pokeball Plus, etc.)...

StephenYap3

Grumblevolcano

@Harmonie That's the point, both Smash Ultimate and Splatoon 2 have returning content as the major focus but they do it in a way that makes them different from an enhanced port like MK8 Deluxe. Pretty sure the arguments only even exist because of the returning content focus.

The first real Smash Ultimate footage (E3 Direct) was enough to convince me Smash Ultimate wasn't an enhanced port.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

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Harmonie

@StephenYap3 Well, that's the thing, Lets Go is considered its own little subseries of Pokemon, and those features may remain exclusive to that subseries, should it take off (hopefully it won't).

Although I suppose I'm one of the odd ones out and I really don't care for following Pokemon. It turns me off of Lets Go more than it does the reverse. Although there is already so much wrong with the games, that is at the very bottom of the list for me.

@Grumblevolcano Okay. I admit I do not know enough about Splatoon to contribute to any conversation on it.

Harmonie

Nintendo Network ID: WoodwindsRock

bluemage1989

@FaeKnight Breath of the Wild is a port because while it had a simultaneous release with the WiiU version it spent most of it's time being developed as a WiiU game which was then delayed to make it available for launch with the Switch.

Agree its a shame people forget about Arms it's a great game very under appreciated.

bluemage1989

FaeKnight

... People do realize how often a game starts development with the intention of being on one console, then ends up being released on a newer console right? Nintendo does this somewhat often. And they have for decades. A Link to the Past started development for the NES according to the creator before being reworked for the SNES and then reworked yet again despite being ready for production into the game we all know and love.

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

Harmonie

@FaeKnight Perhaps, but ALTTP and any other examples of what you are talking about were never released on the original console whereas games like Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild were. Plus, the situation is different because ALTTP must have really developed as a different game for the SNES, whereas TP and BOTW didn't for their Wii/Switch releases. Also, if the fact that ALTTP was originally going to be an NES game was only revealed to us through the creator after the release of ALTTP, then it also makes a significant difference in public perception. TP and BoTW were revealed for the GCN/Wii U longggg before they were revealed to be dual releasing on the Wii/Switch. My perception of both games as GCN/Wii U games before being Wii/Switch games was solidified by that alone.

TP/BoTW were GCN/Wii U games before they were ever Wii/Switch games and that does have a significant impact on which system I tie them to.

Edited on by Harmonie

Harmonie

Nintendo Network ID: WoodwindsRock

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