Topic: Current Switch 2 line-up not good enough?

I addressed that here.

@Bolt_Strike Riiiight.

But they are games. For your Switch 2. To be played on the Switch 2. With Switch 2 features.

Just because no one played the Wii U doesn't mean the games ported to Switch are now Switch games, if this is your logic.

Either games are multi format and they don't count, or they are multi format and they do count.

Pick one.

@rallydefault You should cut @Bolt_Strike some slack, after all they‘ve seen a trailer and a few seconds of an open area that seems to challenge the ten commandments of Metroidvania which Moses carried down the mountain.

@jfp
True, very true.

Yea, like, I don't even know where to begin with @Bolt_Strike to be honest. And they're just doing the ol' "reading comprehension" line that is always such a winner on the internet. Gives you free license to say whatever jumble of words are most offensive/impressive-sounding, and then whip out the "you can't read" accusation when somebody calls you on it lol

@Bolt-Strike
You do know that MK8 sold like 9 million copies on Wii U, right?

@Haruki_NLI The larger issue with ports is that if you've played them, there's less enjoyment to be had replaying them. THAT is what matters the most when it comes to ports, and that's why how many played the original is relevant here. MK8 sold 8.46 million copies on Wii U, but MK8D sold 68.86 million on Switch. That means that there are roughly (we don't know exactly because of an unknown amount of overlap, but probably close to) 60 million people who bought 8D on the Switch that did not buy the original on Wii U. To those people, MK8D was a completely new experience providing as much entertainment as a new game. What "counts" varies from person to person depending on what they played or didn't play previously, but we can generalize this on a macroeconomic level based on the sales. Are the S2Es likely to sell 60 million more or anywhere close to that than the original Switch games? Most likely not. In fact I'd bet money that these S2Es sell less than the original Switch 1 games.

@jfp I'm not opposed to changes to the Metroidvania formula as long as they expand on the genre rather than destroy it and recreate it into something else. There's a difference between adding a new wrinkle to the genre and completely trying to cram in something that's the complete opposite.

Also don't be fooled into thinking I've written this game off completely based on that small amount of footage. But it is a bad look for the game so far and we desperately need a Prime 4 Direct to bring clarity here, so at minimum it's poor marketing.

@rallydefault I'm using that for a reason and that's because I'm making points A, B, and C on these topics and you're only latching onto point A and ignoring B and C. It has nothing to do with wanting to use an "offensive sounding jumble of words". You're doing that and calling ME offensive? Get real. Ignoring the majority of what someone says is really, well... ignorant. Address the entirety of my arguments instead of just one sentence for every 2 or 3 paragraphs and then maybe we'll get somewhere. Otherwise we're done.

Although I don't really agree with the title of this thread, it also feels like a moot issue to me regardless as someone who doesn't own lots of gaming devices.

What Switch 2 games do I own? Besides the short Kirby DLC, I only have Bananza. Although I am interested in some of the upcoming exclusives, none are 100% must-buys for me.

Do I regret getting Switch 2 for one (admittedly great) exclusive? Not at all... because I am playing my Switch 1 backlog with better graphics, better performance, better feeling controllers. It turns out the gaming experience is better without constant 40 second loading screens. Who knew? Basically my all around gaming experience has significantly improved while also getting to play an exclusive or two I really enjoy. Completely worth it for me personally. Perhaps if I owned a PS5 I would feel differently, but I don't, and PS5 has other serious negatives such as not being a hybrid.

Most of the true Pokemon experience is making a box full of 100s of adorable Pokemon. Fighting is secondary 😝That's why zillions of people who play the card game (both real and mobile) spend their time collecting attractive cards rather than actually playing.

For me, I'm not really a fan of the direction Z-A is taking the combat. Will I get it anyways? Decent chance because.. cute Pokemon. For what it's worth, I think the graphics look quite nice in the Switch 2 verison, although definitely worse (not shockingly) in the Switch 1 version.

(sees thread title)
"Oh, I think I already know what this topic will devolve into"
(reads replys)
"Yep"

I still maintain two main thoughts on this:
1. Buying a console at launch is always dumb
2. As far as launch libraries go Switch 2 is kinda amazing

In any case, these discussions always devolve into a debate attempting to categorise which games count. With everyone attempting to find a definition that helps their argument. It's always tedious and pointless

To me the Switch 2 edition upgrade for TotK is functionally no different to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe on Switch. Because it's literally functionally no different. And it's a similar thing with Prime 4. I have a Switch, sure, but I didn't buy Prime 4 on Switch. I'm buying it for Switch 2. To me it's a Switch 2 game just like BotW was a Switch game

As far as I'm concerned, a game counts if it's playable and the cost of it is what you pay to play. And it's a new title of you haven't played it before. The how's and why's before that are kind irrelevant. I think if your definition of "what counts" is any more complex than this you're overcomplicating it

I really don't see much appeal in replaying my backlog at slightly better framerates and resolution, personally. I've played a bit of BotW again in the S2 edition, and while it's certainly nicer, I've played hundreds of hours over the years already, and the framerate and visuals obviously didn't impede my enjoyment. So I've moved on, and this doesn't change anything.

Then there's the issues like how especially in TotK, the shadow cascade draw distance in handheld is so stark due to a higher resolution that you get this horizontal line across the screen right where Link walks that's super distracting. Already on the tutorial cloud islands.

In most cases, higher resolution and framerate adds little to games I already enjoyed, but the lack of fixes for other games like Animal Crossing in handheld make it worse than OLED. For games that I stopped playing due to resolution and/or performance, I already got them for PC on sale at a later date so I've moved on.

So personally I'm stuck in a weird place where the exclusives so far are not compelling to me at all (I have both MKW and Bananza and dislike both), the games that got visual upgrades I've already played to death (Zelda, Mario, Violet), and the one game that's an "infinity" game (Animal Crossing) has gotten no love at all and looks worse stretched to 1080p on Switch 2's display than at native 720p on my OLED.

With the latest update of Shinobi (looks fantastic now) my Switch 2 gaming schedule is full and almost bursting at it's seams until Prime 4 comes out in December. Together with Silksong, Hades 2 and Ninja Gaiden this makes my fall and will carry me into the holiday season! Shorter days and Ninjas lurking in the dark, perfect.

So don't. But the bit @Bolt_Strike was pushing was that Switch 2 Editions don't count while Wii U ports on Switch did. Because relative sales and etc, etc, blah, blah, blah

All I was saying is that it's a simple bit of logic. If it's new to you it's new to you, and so counts as a new release. So to me Prime 4 is a Switch 2 game, because Im getting it on Switch 2 and didn't have it before

The bit where upgrades to existing titles in your backlog come in is the question of price. And I'd argue the price is the money you hand over in order to play it. So for me the Switch 2 editions of TotK/BotW cost nothing because, personally, I had a subscription anyways. And for other titles it's just an update to open up higher resolution modes or sometimes a small upgrade fee. Which is in contrast to something like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe which was functionally the same but I was charged full retail for

You can do the why's and wherefores if you must. You can throw the shade you like to throw on the platform which apparently you still value enough to keep despite all the noises. But the above is just the raw facts of how these transactions work. Launch consoles are always bad, by definition the library doesn't exist yet. But I would argue Switch 2 is doing pretty well early on in no small part because of how BC/updates/S2 Editions work

I think this is the thing that's so often left out of the discussion. Switch 2 is such a massive step up in the Swtich-Experience as a whole. The feel of the new Joycons and the new HD rumble alone could make me gush.

Edit:

Adding to my point above and I might be a stickler for words here: But isn't your backlog the collection of games you own, but haven't played yet? How then exactly do you replay a backlog?

Between DK Bananza, Mario Kart World and a replay of TotK personally I've been pretty happy so far. Also earlier on I had a lot of fun with game chat and specifically the additional GameShare mode in Clubhouse Games. And I did play through a few games that were a bit framey on Switch, most notably Cult of Lamb

Going forward Prime 4 looks good so there's that in the immediate future. Also indie games releasing on it are supporting 120Hz which is neat. Mina the Hollower on the horizon, although I suspect I'll be playing a lot of Hades 2 on Deck in the mean time

But yeah, I'm not short of content to enjoy here

@FishyS
Yea, but is the video game the card game? You're comparing two very different things. The card game doesn't need to worry about how its gameplay feels, does it?

@Bolt_Strike
If you don't want people to point out the flimsiness of your "point B" or whatever, then don't make point B! lol

You getting mad about something you said is hilarious. Please continue. I love it.

Arguably it should. I have ironically always avoided the card game because the gameplay doesn't feel good to me; I realize that kind of goes against my own point, but I was not intending to say the various gameplay aspects are not important, just that the battling mechanics are not the number one draw of Pokemon for many players. For me, it is cute Pokemon first, which is inevitably tied in with certain aspects of the graphics. The story, exploration, and battle system are important as well, if secondarily. Although I personally enjoyed the chibi art in Brilliant Diamond, I certainly understand the people who instantly avoided the game because they dislike that art style.

I'm not generally a snob for 'fancy' graphics, but the Switch 2 graphics of Z-A make me want to play more than the somewhat washed out graphics on Switch 1. In terms of this thread so I don't stay 1,000% off topic, I think the Switch 2 version is definitely a draw for Switch 2. For the people neutral on the graphics, but really like the new battle mechanics however? Then perhaps the Switch 1 version is just as good for them.

Thank you for saying that, that distinction was bothering me too. 😆 I suppose for the few people on these forums with zero Switch 1 backlog, playing backlog on an improved console is not an additional draw. Personally I have far roo much backlog and the majority of it works (and generally works better) on Switch 2.

@FishyS Me too, even if I didn't buy another game for Switch 2 my backlog would likely keep me going (roughly eyeballing it) for another decade or so … 😅

Perhaps I'm being somewhat of a hypocrite given my comments above. It is a game that exists on Switch 2 so it certainly "counts" and clearly there are advantages to getting the Switch 2 Edition. Undoubtedly a positive thing for the option for playing it on Switch 2 to exist

..... with that said, I'm yet to see anything about Legends Z-A that makes me think "yes, this is why the Switch 2 exists". To me, graphically at least, it appears to be another fairly mid Pokemon release. At least with something like Prime 4 you can tell they're redlining the Switch hardware and on Switch 2 there's enough headroom to push to 4K/60 or 1080p/120. Legends Z-A, even on Switch 2, there are so many Switch games that look better than this

It'll sell millions regardless I guess and certainly in terms of moving the Switch 2 it's going to do that job competently. But for me it's not really that interesting of a release. Especially not in the context of what the Switch 2 can bring

@skywake That's the whole point in bringing up the sales though. It varies from person to person but to most people, these games AREN'T new because they already played them on Switch 1.

@rallydefault No no, go ahead, if you think they're so flimsy go ahead and address them. Ignoring them is more insulting than actually pointing out what you think is so terrible about them.

All I'm gonna say is, exclusive or not, I wish the 3DS, Wii U and the Switch had had Metroid this early on their life cycles. So for me it's lineup is already on the right track.
And no, in the case of the Wii U, that's not hate towards Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.

Besides, with Kirby Air Riders on the way, which was a much requested game by fans of the GC original, myself included, my eventual purchase of the Switch 2 is already justified, unlike the Switch 1that took 5 years to be justified.

Let me tell you briefly my story with the Switch 1. Jump to the TL;DR at the end if you want me to spare you the details.

The game that made me wanna buy one was Metroid Prime 4 back when it was announced in 2017, mostly because I've been waiting a lof ot time to see if Sylux found Samus after that Corruption cliffhanger. By the time it was announced, I had gotten my first and only 3DS, the store employees even questioned me why I was getting a 3DS instead of a Switch.

On early 2019, I got both Mario Kart 7 and Smash Bros. for 3DS, and my friends reactions were "Why you didn't wait to get Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Smash Bros. Ultimate?"

Finally got a Switch 1 on December 2019, right before the pandemic, with Luigi's Mansion 3 and Smash Bros. Ultimate. But when I did, I didn't feel like it was the greatest console of all time most people around me had been telling me it was, maybe the absence of MP4 played a role.
I survived the pandemic playing those games plus Tetris 99, Super Mario 3D All-Stars, Cuphead and a few Arcade Archives. At the end of 2020 and until March 2021, I actually went back to the Wii U, Nintendo 64 and Gamecube.

On mid-2021, I was allowed to go back to work in-person and got a few more physical games, but I still didn't feel my Switch was justified.

By late 2021, I wasn't feeling hyped by any of the previous releases or upcoming games, not even Metroid Dread or Kirby and the Forgotten Land. It got to a point where I legitimately started to regret getting a Switch and considered giving up on gaming.

Then by early 2022, I got to play Metroid Dread and Kirby and the Forgotten Land, and those games revitalized my interest in gaming. These 2 games finally justified my Switch 1, which I feel I mostly got out of peer pressure and not because I legit wanted one. By this point I had accepted MP4 was cancelled for good.

Come 2024, and Metroid Prime 4 finally shows up. While I was glad it finally was shown, at this point my reaction was "too little too late" in regards of it being a Switch 1 game. But I have to say, I was also relieved it was announced for a 2025 release, because money in 2024 was very tight for me.

I'm still gonna play it, but my purchase will be of the physical Nintendo Switch 2 Edition. If I cannot play the NS2 Edition cartridge on the Switch 1, I will consider it an "insurance purchase" (inexpensive games and DLC I get but don't intend to play at that moment, but do so to be ready with updates and whatnot by the time I play/get them) and wait. Of course if I come across a cheap NS1 physical copy I wouldn't say no to it, but for Metroid Prime 4 my priority is now on the NS2 Edition.

TL;DR: Don't buy a system until you see a game you truly want to play released.

@Bolt_Strike
Sure, what would you like me to address first? Should we do Metroid?

You're "concerned" that the game will not be a true Metroid game because they've now shown us some stuff that looks open world. You have not played the full game (maybe you haven't played the demo, either?), and in fact nobody around here to my knowledge has played the full game. So... I think you're just jumping to a pretty big conclusion, and for what sake? Hyperbole? Melodrama? To accuse me of not "understanding" Metroid?

Which of your wisdoms would you like me to address next?

@FishyS
I think it's strange that you're trying to argue gameplay isn't the most important part of a game. Do you not think that you're being a bit strange with that?

I know people like the cute, fuzzy Pokemon. I get that. But I'm saying in terms of judging it as a game, which it is, the gameplay is most important.

And part of that is actually catching them instead of just battling. SwSh felt like a slog for me because the battle system was so mid, and everything else was bland. Legends Arceus was the first game that made catching Pokemon fun. Battling didn't feel completely necessary, and the hook of creating the Pokedex was what drove me to play more. ZA doesn't have that, and I could care less about it now. I don't want to JUST battle Pokemon.

Since no one's mentioned it as well, the S2Es feel like glorified DLC compared to the Wii U re-releases from the Switch 1. Yes they were the same game, but there was no other way to play those games on Switch. They were locked out of the ecosystem otherwise. A lot of people had already purchased Kirby or the Zelda games or Super Mario Party Jamboree, so releasing a NS2 edition isn't a completely new experience that feels like DLC at best or a paid patch at worst. It's going to be cheaper to buy those games used and then get the digital upgrades than buy the new NS2 games.

And yall need to just be nicer, man. We're talking about video games.