Topic: Wrestling Fans Unite!

@the_shpydar - Bischoff is something else man. There are few people in the history of rasslin who exude heel like him. I was a huge fan of pre NWO WCW, but when they put him on screen with Hogan, Nash, and Hall; it was magical. NWO was too cool to hate, but with him in their corner, easy. I know he has a good mind for storytelling, but they’re crazy if they don’t put him on camera. Even if it’s just a straight NWO ripoff, give him a stable, and let him wreak smug havoc.

Edit - The whole invasion angle was just a call back to the territory days when guys like Brody and Butcher would show up in your town and terrorize your champ for six months.

@bimmy-lee For WWE it's comes down to who sells the most shirts and who Vince wants as the face of the divisions, not skill or talent which is sad If Vince does think they will make it which happened to Caesro, Nakamura, Asks, and Dean Ambrose then you get buried and the fans are stuck with Roman Reigns, and Brock Lesnar. Which is why promotions such as New Japan and AEW are breath of fresh air.

@Tasuki - Yep. Agreed. Do you think Smackdown moving to Fox might change that a bit, at least for that show? It’s going to be hard for Vince to sell them a champion everyone hates with a go away passion. I’m hoping they put a chicken ish heel on top, people love a good chase. I don’t totally hate Lesnar, but he definitely shouldn’t be unbeatable anymore at this point in his career. Especially since his body is slowly morphing into Brutus Beefcake’s body.

@bimmy-lee I think they see Brock as the new Andre, Andre could barely move in the last few years and they still had him doing matches as an unstoppable force as he was special. I mean they just had 'taker nearly kill someone a few weeks ago and brought him back to boost rating, Brock not being in tip top shape ain't gonna stop him from being their top monster.

Bruan really should have taken the mantle of the top monster by now. it's strange how they turned him around from being green and not getting over to the most over guy on the roster but now a forgotten midcarder.

@Tasuki Ironically Dean Ambrose (hot off the Shield break up) was the company's biggest tix shifter at house events (allegedly his main event tours outsold the Reigns regardless of who they were up against which is why they put the title on him during the 2nd split) and Sasha Banks was their best selling female merch seller...where are they now?

@jump - Yeah, Andre is a good comp. Brock still looks believable in the ring, he’s just at a stage where he’s noticeably aging. Andre could get away with almost complete deterioration in the ring because he always had the sideshow aspect. I feel like Brock can eat a loss here and there and still be Brock, so why they’ve fumbled Braun so badly is truly mind boggling. He was ready to explode, and a win over Brock would have given him momentum for a solid year. I don’t think anyone on the roster could be hurt by a loss to Braun, especially when he was on fire.

As for Ambrose and Banks, I don’t think WWE cares about house shows, and I’ve heard Sasha is a bit of a problem backstage. I’m not a smark, and I don’t dig around for information like that, but I’ve heard it talked about on podcasts.

House shows are what built WWE, the business model even now is to treat WWE like a touring act. It was this source of income that allowed WWE to keep going in the 90s when WCW was beating them. Their Saudi house shows actually gets them more money than 'Mania in a weird example.

I'm a BIG Sasha mark, I honestly rate her better than the other horsewomen, Gail Kim, Tessa Blanchard, Asuka and all of the other big names I can think of, although she can be abit too reckless with throwing herself about. If it's the 'mania thing about her throwing a strop there's an interesting tidbit one journalist mentioned was that multiple sources came to him (rather than him approaching them which is the norm) with the same word for word account of it and suspects it might be WWE going on the offensive to discredit her. The IIconics have even mentioned they didn't see it happen and her & Bayley were really happy for them. If the dirt sheets are correct of what led up to it I can see her point. Her and Bayley were begging for the tag titles to be created for over a year, where given it to them on the promise they would hold onto them for awhile and take challenges on all brands (they were even on NXT promising they were gonna defend them there) to build up the belts credibility but then on the day of 'mania she is told she's dropping the belts and is being split both as a team and on the brands from Bayley who is her best friend and riding buddy. Plus she was already in a similar position as Moxley who was fed up with her creative direction of her character, Sasha Banks is crying out to be a heel but instead is a face (due to those cheap sunglasses being top sellers and they don't believe heels sell merch) and put in a weird lesbian angle with Bayley.

@jump But Dean and Sasha isn't what Vince wanted. Which is why Roman was continuously pushed. Vince always had a thing for big muscular guys as Champion and woman who act more like eye candy like the IIconics do that's why they have the the belts.

The problem isn't even Vince wants big muscular guys, is that he doesn't know how to use the big muscular guys. Vince has never been able to create a company head himself, Hogan was literally a rip off of Billy Graham, Stone Cold was created by him going off script, The Rock had to overcome Vince's gimmick, Cena had to built off the The Doctor of Thuganomics and CM Punk was CM Punk. It was funny after they had Daniel Bryan win at 'mania and decided if they did the same thing with Reigns he'll get over just like Bryan did.

Whilst it's widely known he wants "athletic 10s" I disagree the IIconics only have the belts as they are eye candy, it's more imo they are the only true women tag team around now. If they wanted eye candy I would have thought they give it to Fire & Desire instead.

Did everyone watch the Viceland docs? I still haven’t seen Moolah, but the rest were pretty decent. Nothing mind blowing. I watched the Brody doc a couple times because I enjoyed the footage so much.

@jump - House shows are important for the bottom line, but I don’t think they care who pops the crowds at those shows because it’s a totally different product than TV. I’m in a B town, and it’s basically a super elaborate indie show. The crowd pops for everyone the whole time. It’s rasslin! Those shows exist to sell merch and stay relevant. Carnies gotta tour. I don’t think you can consider the Crown Jewel a house show at this point. It’s a boughten PPV.

I’m with you on Sasha. I’d put her NXT work at or above any other woman you listed. She’s a heel. She’s awful at being a face. They’ve sold her character out to sell those stupid glasses. Part of that is on her for not being able to adapt and make it something. She also became noticeably more reckless when she made the main roster. She throws herself around too much, and half the time I’m afraid for her life, but not in a good way. I think she’s their biggest botched call up because it seemed like she might be the next Rock.

The Viceland specials were all great, and i'd definitely recommend watching the Moolah one. While i already knew most of the stories being told, it was the first time i can remember that Moolah's problematic (to put it lightly) behavior really got called out beyond a few random dirt-sheet stories and shoot interviews over the years.

And the Bruiser one was amazing. Seeing Tony Atlas — although he's talked about it over the years, he's often tried to not discuss it about it in detail, since it hurts him too much — telling the story of everything that happened that night and everything afterwards that led to Jose Gonzalez literally getting away with murder is both heartbreaking and infuriating.

House shows are important indicator for tv/ppv tho, the Hogan vs Flair 'mania main event was famously canned as it wasn't drawing at the house shows.

In fairness to Sasha as a face she was jobbed out to Bliss and Charlotte all the time, they literally only gave her the belt so they can have someone beat her for it a week or two later. When you have someone constant lose you can't be surprised people lose interest, it's the same mistake they made with Wyatt thinking he could get over with his promos so it didn't matter if he won or not. The Undertaker use to didn't sell is opponents moves and went on a 20+ year 'mania winning streak, strong booking helps build them to legends. A heel turn would have been a good reset for her but they then went for the Bayley rivalry/lesbian love story for a year and then had them become a tag team.

Okay, I’ll be honest, I watched the Brody doc like four times. Couldn’t get enough of Atlas, Butcher, Dirty Dutch, and all the old footage of Brody. Some if it I haven’t seen before. Watching him swing the chain never gets old, and I love when he’s up in the seats swinging on people who are throwing stuff at him. I saw him in person and on tv as a kid. He was King Kong Brody in my territory. Gave me nightmares. I’ll definitely watch Moolah! The Brody doc is the reason I haven’t seen it yet. Every time I’ve had a moment to watch Moolah, I end up watching Brody again.

Wow!!! I just finished watching AEW Fyter Fest and wasn't disappointed again. Alot of good matches but of course the match of the night was the Moxely/Janelea match. The Cody match was another solid one as well as well as the six man tag match with Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. I loved the Street Fighter references too.

AEW is really making me enjoy wrestling again.

I couldn’t watch FF live, hoping to watch it tonight. Glad to hear it’s another good show.

@jump - You’ve mentioned Taker and Wyatt, which only reminds me; why oh whyyyy would they not put Taker with Bray, and let him put Wyatt over at SS? That would be a fine match, Bray can fly around for Taker, and it would do so much for Wyatt. I really like his new direction. Building a kids cult is brilliant, but they need to make this work.

Fyter Fest was seriously amazing. It made me truly remember what i love about pro wrestling (though NJPW and some of the smaller feds, like MLW, have been scratching that itch for a while now). There was not a "dud" match on the entire card. Amazing wrestling, great psychology, "sports-like" presentation, good ol' JR on the call ... everything was awesome.

Moxley/Janella was honestly the first match that i was seriously looking forward to (as in a "i NEED to see this card", and not just a "that should be good" way like say an AJ Styles vs Whoever match) in a very long time. So awesome to see Mox very clearly having a great time and enjoying what he's doing for the first time in years.

And damn, that shot that Cody took was BRUTAL (as was that apron bump Allin took — ouch!). I know people are already whining about it for obvious reasons, but i don't care. They're grown men, and one isolated shot like that — especially when Cody doesn't ever work that sort of brutal style — isn't going to turn someone into a vegetable.

I am so excited for their weekly show to start in the fall.

Meanwhile, Bray Wyatt's Firefly Funhouse gimmick is one of the very few reasons that i enjoy WWE at all right now. I sadly expect it'll have its legs cut out from underneath it once he's actually back in the ring and booked into weekly storylines (though to be fair, the background easter-egg style appearances of the puppets in random backstage segments has been excellently done so far).

^I disagree about the chair shot, whilst I wouldn't go as far as to commend them, it's something I rather not see as the cost doesn't equal the pop. Even if it's just one single shot to the head it can still cause a concussion (I've had them before, they aren't nice and my cousin was a boxer who has complications from them) which can rule them out for months as well as potentially causing a botch later in the match and when you're lifting huge guys dropping someone on their neck is a real possibility. It also leads to demands of more chair shots to head as the fans expect it now.

Oh man, I take it Cody ate a chair shot to the dome. Can’t wait to see how he took it. Same as any other spot, could go fine, could go wrong. Depends on the people involved. Let’s break all the rules. Fingers crossed for a piledriver through a table next time. Bang! Bang!

Double posting because it doesn’t matter what my name is. I watched Fyter Fest in two sittings. Not ideal, I usually like to start and finish a card in a single viewing, but it was a good show. I didn’t love Cody’s match, but it was fine, and it was more about the post match anyway. Seemed like he pulled away a tiny bit at the last second on that chair shot and the frame of the chair maybe sliced him. He could have gigged it because there was a quick shot of him on the mat holding his head, but it wasn’t bleeding yet, and then they came back to the same shot a second later and it was a gusher. Doesn’t matter. I enjoyed it. Cody sold the heck out of it, and it all felt like the ending of an ECW card from 1998. Needless to say, the final matches were great. I ended up watching the pre show too, and Mark Quinn of Private Party looks like a star.

New Japan's G1 Climax started tonight from Dallas. A couple of names caught my attention Jon Moxley of course but also in the tournament is Zak Sabre Jr and Will Osprey two of my favorite indy wrestlers. Also Kanta (formerly Hideo Itami of NXT) will be making his return debut match so I am excited about that.

I have to say since watching AEW my love of wrestling has rekindled. Of course I haven't watch any WWE but I am keeping an eye on it with Heymen and Bischoff running the shows but still I am optimistic about Raw and SmackDown.

At least for now I have AEW and New Japan.

I'm a big fan of Zack Sabre Jr and Will Osprey. There's a British indy promotion called Lucha Britannia (which is insane trashy fun but not for everyone) which is where I first saw Osprey, it was about 6ish years ago so he would have been 19 at the time and even then you could tell he was going to be great. At the time he was wearing a Lucha mask so a few years later I remember watching Osprey at another indy event and thought he's similar to Dark Britannico (his Luch Britannia name) only to then find out they were the same person.

Technically Kanta isn't returning to New Japan as he has never wrestled there before, he's largely know for his time in Noah a different Japanese promotion. Keep an eye on the Tomohiro Ishii and Kota Ibushi matches too, both of those guys are great.