@Pizzamorg
The same has been true of every gaming console when compared to PCs near launch. I think the PS4/XBone was about the closest console launch we got to having PCs look competitive on price/performance. And the 360/PS3 gen extended out for so long that by the end the gap between PCs and Consoles was comically huge. But outside of that, consoles have always been pretty competitive
The same would probably also be true of the PS5 if it wasn't for the outlandish component prices currently. A "mid tier" gaming PC can run rings around a PS5. Problem is a "mid tier" GPU costs a good 5x as much as it an equivalent tier card would have three years ago so building a new PC for gaming right now is just dumb.....
Also sitting on the fence of this hardware power argument. There are diminishing returns for spec. 4K means less than HD etc, etc. But there are still advancement to be had.
In the case of the Switch but, raw spec isn't as important as some of the low hanging fruit they could tackle. Faster storage, HDR, VRR. Easy wins. But even a slight bump in performance would allow games to hit resolution and frame rate targets more consistently. Maybe some more AA, a bit of DLSS, maybe even 1440p. Doesn't have to be dramatic jump to be a significant improvement
Maybe my memory is muddling it a bit, but I am pretty sure this is the closest the gap has been between PC and gaming consoles in memory. Especially when it comes to raw performance, maybe not always visual fidelity, but it is insane that there are people out there who have never experienced 60 fps gaming before this current console generation, something which has been a staple of PC gaming for as long as I can remember.
That divide will of course grow over the course of the generation, especially as the consoles currently do not have a DLSS equivalent, so we're already seeing titles having to sacrifice performance for things like Raytracing (and usually a very compromised version of Raytracing, not the extensive raytracing you can get on PC), so it does fill me with worry about the longevity of this cycle in that regard.
But as others have said, it kinda feels like we're hitting a wall when it comes to raw fidelity (and I know we say that every time, until we push through it), even now it takes a very powerful, well optimised, rig to max out your games, play them in 4k and 60 FPS. With many choosing instead to use a combination of 1440p and DLSS to find a sweet spot between performance and visuals. I am sure 8k gaming will happen one day, but it seems like a wasted endeavour right now. I think the industry reflects that as well, with sideways moves like Raytracing, or improved motion capture, or upscaling tech like DLSS really being a lot of the focus lately, rather than just raw pixels.
@Euler I can agree that the switch needs a successor (I really don't think or want it to be called switch 2 ever, most uncreative name, that or new switch) at some point probably 2024, but I'm not gonna pay 90$ for marginally better graphics on the same games I had on switch just to play them on the new console and I doubt a lot of other people will either. Also they already did a deluxe version of mario kart 8 so another would be hugely unnecessary and super redundant at this point, even if it included all the new dlc with it. Also they shouldn't release a new console every year, every 6-7, or 8 years is good. They do need brand new games though I can agree with that but I would say backwards compatibility would be HIGHLY recommended with the switch, and just every new console they come out with. But that's just my opinion.
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@Pizzamorg
The PS4 launched in 2013 with something approximating an RX7770. Ish. The 7770 launched in late 2012 with a RRP of $160US (obviously without the rest of the components). The PS4 was $400US at launch. So a PS4 spec on PCs was attainable, if you were smart with your budget, at the same price at launch. Just.
The prices now are kinda stuffed because the PS5 has a RRP of $400US for the base model, $500US for the disc model. If you can get it. It's probably around the spec of a 2070 which launched in 2018 for $500US.... and now sells for $800US.... you can't reach the PS5 spec on PC without over spending
If you go back to the 360? It was equivalent to the 7800gt which sold for $500US at launch. Basically when the 360 launched. The 360 sold for $400US at launch. And the PS3 while expensive was one of the cheaper BluRay players at launch. The PS2 was the same for DVDs. So the absurdity of now has basically taken us back to the old "normal".
Consoles used to be well beyond what PCs could do at the same price. That PCs offered more at reasonable prices and value over the 2010s was unusual
Consoles have always been better value for most people, really, @Pizzamorg .... If you want to share your build for a PC that's the same sort of price as a Series X or PS5 with equivalent specs, please do! You're always paying a bit over the odds for pre-built brand name PCs, so it'll have to be a custom build but we'll assume you can assemble it yourself, even
@Pizzamorg
The PS4 launched in 2013 with something approximating an RX7770. Ish. The 7770 launched in late 2012 with a RRP of $160US (obviously without the rest of the components). The PS4 was $400US at launch. So a PS4 spec on PCs was attainable, if you were smart with your budget, at the same price at launch. Just.
The prices now are kinda stuffed because the PS5 has a RRP of $400US for the base model, $500US for the disc model. If you can get it. It's probably around the spec of a 2070 which launched in 2018 for $500US.... and now sells for $800US.... you can't reach the PS5 spec on PC without over spending
If you go back to the 360? It was equivalent to the 7800gt which sold for $500US at launch. Basically when the 360 launched. The 360 sold for $400US at launch. And the PS3 while expensive was one of the cheaper BluRay players at launch. The PS2 was the same for DVDs. So the absurdity of now has basically taken us back to the old "normal".
Consoles used to be well beyond what PCs could do at the same price. That PCs offered more at reasonable prices and value over the 2010s was unusual
Fair enough! All I remember is the PS4 running in rough 1080p at a rough 30 fps at a time when PCs could stably lock both, if not higher, as common place. Your Series X/PS5 version of say AC Valhalla isn't going to be a significant stepdown from your PC copy of Valhalla on either a performance, or fidelity, standpoint - even on a PC say two to three times or more, than the price of the console is the point I was making. This was never really the case from memory in the past, but I am getting old, so I bow to your expertise if the truth was otherwise.
Consoles have always been better value for most people, really, @Pizzamorg .... If you want to share your build for a PC that's the same sort of price as a Series X or PS5 with equivalent specs, please do! You're always paying a bit over the odds for pre-built brand name PCs, so it'll have to be a custom build but we'll assume you can assemble it yourself, even
"But if you can now spend 500 quid and play games in 4k 60 fps without all the faff that comes with PC gaming at times, I'd have to assume for a lot of consumers that'd be a lot more tempting than trying to find a likeminded PC, which is likely to probably be more expensive (unless you're savvy with your parts finding and can build itself) for minimal comparable gains." Me, on the other page.
I feel like eventually, console generations will be defined by a console’s gimmick over power to differentiate itself from other consoles, and past systems.
I think we’ve been there since at least the Wii era. Most normal people have no idea what fps or p stand for, and power has never determined which console sells the best. Unless they find something truly revolutionary that the next console can do but the Switch can’t, there’s no need to ever make a new console.
While I've no interest in upgrading to next-gen tech, I will admit, the current gen hardware is a much better value for what you're paying than PS4/Xbone were. I built a modest mid-range PC in 2015 that frankly lapped everything that released that gen. In fact, I'm still running with my video card for that build (updated my CPU/mobo/RAM and installed an SSD, though), and it's still doing a shockingly serviceable job at 1080p.
I think you'd find it'd cost more to build a PC comparable to the current consoles, @Pizzamorg .... Ray-tracing requires graphics cards costing hundreds for a start Now, I'm not too bothered about that myself & am happy to play in just HD but I still spent a fair bit more on my PC than either a Series X or PS5 costs
I think you'd find it'd cost more to build a PC comparable to the current consoles, @Pizzamorg .... Ray-tracing requires graphics cards costing hundreds for a start Now, I'm not too bothered about that myself & am happy to play in just HD but I still spent a fair bit more on my PC than either a Series X or PS5 costs
Yeah, that is literally what I said. It won't cost you hundreds more if you know what you are doing, IE you can build it yourself and source your parts, but it certainly will cost more. This is the point I was making.
During the Xbone/PS4 generation or the generation before that, even - apparently not at launch (but my memory says otherwise) but let us say mid cycle, these consoles from a performance perspective had been well and truly left behind and a budget PC may cost more, but would well and truly run laps around these consoles and not even break a sweat.
Now you can pay 500 quid for basically a mid range PC in the PS5/Series X, you would have to pay significantly more to outperform them on PC and the returns would ultimately be minor and diminishing returns. Things like Raytracing are currently super primitive in their implementation and for even the top one percent of PCs, the performance cost is simply not justified.
But yeah, 4K 60 fps on consoles is a complete game changer. I don't remember another time like this in the last couple of console generations. When you can throw a game on a console and have a more than comparable experience compared to what you can have on PC. I think the value prospect of a console has never been higher. This is the point I was making. The value proposition of the PS5/Series X is just insane.
Yeah, you just seemed to be underselling them, @Pizzamorg .... Still plenty to like about PCs for those who prefer those & various things to offset the costs, of course
Yeah, you just seemed to be underselling them, @Pizzamorg .... Still plenty to like about PCs for those who prefer those & various things to offset the costs, of course
Underselling what, consoles? I dunno how you could take that away from my posts as I was quite literally arguing the complete opposite
Isn't what showcases the need for new hardware the situation where games (especially 1st party) run rough on the current hardware?
Switch is pushing it though I'd prefer the odd rough performance over new hardware resulting in Nintendo 1st party games on that system heavily delving into the bad habits PS4/XB1/PS5/Series X|S are known for like battle passes, microtransaction shops, etc.
Microsoft has being doing that kind of stuff since 2015 but Sony plans to go all in on it over the next 4 years (10 live service games) and likely beyond.
Yeah, that's certainly a big advantage for a lot of people, @VoidofLight .... I'm certainly no expert, so if it wasn't for PC Specialist doing that, I'd never have got a PC with the insane prices for good pre-built ones
8k is pointless. The human eye can’t even tell the difference between that and 4K. unless you have your face inches from the tv. It is just a way to jack up the price of consoles with a useless feature. But people will not care because it sounds like such a big leap.
Ultra realistic graphics are just plain dumb for me.
It just really irritating my eyes.
I would rather playing cartoonish games over than ultra realistic graphic games.
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