Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

I think Metacritic scores are perfectly fine as long as you don't take them too seriously. It's interesting to see how the average review scores of a game compare to others, and the Metacritic site is useful for finding all the reviews in one place, as pointed out above. Just don't take them to be an objective measure of a game's quality, which should go without saying really.

Aight I've written more on DS, @BloodNinja.

Death Stranding. One of the most expressive games of our generation, yet one of the most divisive and controversial games I have ever played. Ironic for a game whose primary message is about reconnecting America and bringing people together under a unified front. But beneath the superficial flaws, the seemingly over-repetitive gameplay, and the so-called ugly coat of paint, lies a masterpiece on multiple levels, a game that almost demolishes the barriers between film and video games, and ensures it will stay in the hearts of players for the emotions.

The game is a walking simulator, is one of the most intrinsically flawed arguments to this game that I have read across the internet thus far, because it has very little depth, contrary to the various systems of the game itself. The main challenge of this game is the terrain, the journey. Encountering real enemies, like MULEs and BTs, combines a material, or immaterial, threat with the challenges of the world beneath our feet, to create a unique kind of problem.

The sense of teamwork is also a driving force in this game, and is as omnipotent as the walking itself. Playing this game without an Internet connection is objectively harder to do, compared to playing it with one. The community Kojima has designed has been incredibly helpful and efficient, due to his own designs. According to interviews he designed the Likes system to promote and mandate positivity, and increase oxytocin levels, due to the scientific implications of approval. In fact it’s this need for oxytocin, need, and approval, that leads former porters to become bandit-like MULEs. Their need to deliver pervades their very mind.

Things like climbing a mountain or traversing the landscape are harder without an Internet connection because Kojima hit home the notion that teamwork and solidarity beats all. Other constructions built by players in their worlds are transported to yours, giving a sense that you aren’t alone in the struggle to reconnect the world.

@TheJGG And if I'm not mistaken, the game isn't just about delivering packages, since there's also a story in it.

@VoidofLight The story was for me extremely engaging. Like in Kingdom Hearts the lore was placed in a dedicated section (Interviews), and really expanded the world. Of course some things are jarringly left out of story cutscenes like some character backstories. No joke, most of the supporting cast's fates are revealed in interviews which are just subjected; "Fragile's fate" or otherwise. But some of the story beats were truly amazing, and at the end of the game I nearly cried because of how powerful the ending was.

I have to say though that the pacing's very inconsistent. The game's divided into fourteen episodes (and a prologue), and they vary far too much in length and story significance. Episode 13 for example is an hour and a half of cutscenes, and that's it. Episode 3, however, took me a month to finish because of how large it was. You covered about 45% of the Central Region map in that episode and there was such a small amount of story. Plus, out of the 70 story delivery missions, orders 18-38 take place during Episode 3, which is a good third. And in many instances, like Episodes 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, the entire chapter can be covered with a single order. It takes three entire episodes (10-12) to travel from the Chiral Relay all the way back to Capital Knot City. I loved the whole process, it showed how much you learnt over the course of the game, but the story takes a hit.

The cinematics are top notch, and at times border photorealism. That makes the game better off. The human emotions are captured best by... well... humans. So bringing in top notch Hollywood names like Norman Reedus, Mads Mikkelsen, Léa Seydoux, and a sensational voice actor in Troy Baker, (plus Tommie Earl Jenkins) was the best thing to do, and honestly I doubt it would have worked otherwise.

@TheJGG Huh. Sounds like a pretty interesting game. I remember wanting to try it out due to the odd trailers and the gameplay itself, but just never got around to it.

@jump I can't really decide if video games are art. I would if it wasn't for the financial side of it. Most games are mass produced and marketed, hoping to turn a profit. They are not the artistic image, they're the image on a poster that you can put up in your bedroom. The image may be art....but the posters not.

I guess in a way they're more like functional art, like a bridge. They have a pragmatism and form that's intended to benefit people in a direct way.

@Losermagnet Movies are "art", practically "mass produced", and the posters aren't really all that artistic either.

@Losermagnet Yeah, in theory I'd say it can be art but I've yet to have a slam dunk example where I can say it's art that can only be done as art in video games. Video games making money isn't an issue for me as movies, books, music etc all do the same and it's not that it's isolated to games, there's movies that are art and other movies that are ticket sellers and there's people who have decorated their own homes more artfully than the stuff that Damien Hirst produces. I just need a game to prove there's a technique that makes use of video games as a medium to really prove it beyond cut scenes.

There's a few that have come close towhat I’m looking for but are not 100% convincing like Pokemon with a clear message of bonds and working together is the way so you invest in building a team but too many pokes are just filler and pretty useless so it’s message is wrong or Fire Emblem with its use of permadeath making you think about how to protect your favourites after growing to like them but grinding/over levelling means you don’t have to worry about that or Bioshock with the choice of saving or killing the kids yet you get a reward either way so it doesn’t really matter.

@VoidofLight @jump i don't mean to be contrarian about the matter. It's just that, for me, video games aren't art simply because they're video games. The term "Art" shouldn't be an all access club where 'That Dragon Cancer' has to sit next to whatever the new asset flip on Steam is.

A quote I'm paraphrasing, and unable to attribute to anyone is "it's all art, but most of it is worthless". Maybe that's closer to the truth for me.

As for the reason why i disparage the monetary aspect: I don't like the idea that the popular art of our generation exists under the pressure of committee design, deadlines, and quotas.

@Losermagnet "it's all art, but most of it is worthless" is a paraprase of Oscar Wilde. He meant it more as in if you look at a flower it's very pretty but it doesn't change your life just like all art hence it's worthless.

In terms of selling out (not quite accurate but it's easier than writing pressure of committee design, deadlines, and quotas etc) this isn't a generational thing. Shakespeare was forced to write new stuff to keep his theatre going, The Beatles did like 12 albums in less than 10 years because they had a publisher eager for more etc.

Sometimes the input and pressure of a committee is helpful to keep things going and directed, Shakespeare wouldn't have wrote some of his classics if he didn't need a new play, The Beatles would be missing half of their songs and for an example of the other way Martin Scorsese the greatest living director in the world gets free of the Hollywood system and goes to Netflx to do whatever he wants with a blank cheque ends up producing 3 and half hours of rubbish in The Irishmen (or at least way below his high standards) without the committee to tell him it's rubbish, make it better or Damien Hirst who seems to not bother even trying anymore so will just glue shiny rocks to an old skull rather than back when he was trying to make a name for himself and was more original in his works.

Although nowadays it's slightly different, the art is what makes your name to then earn the money from it. Most bands can't atually live off selling albums anymore so they need to tour and sell shirts which does bring in the money for example. Working within "selling out" doesn't automatically mean there's a lack of passion or artistic expression imo.

I have a pretty broad view of what art is - in my opinion it can be pretty much anything that people create - but I can think of a few examples of what you're suggesting. Games like Metroid and Breath of the Wild convey a feeling of isolation (maybe not quite the right word for BotW but hopefully you know what I mean) that goes beyond what films can do because you're free to explore for yourself. Undertale takes the basic conventions of an RPG and uses them to make the player question their own morals. Even games like Mario that are just supposed to be pure fun are still art if you ask me; if they can make the player feel joy then why not?

W.r.t. video games as art - my feeling is it's down to the person playing the game and how it makes them feel. And video games certainly have the power to inspire emotion in the same way that other art forms do.

Even if you don't feel that video games in their entirety are art, they are almost certainly the sum of many pieces of art. I think it's hard to argue that the gleeful tone of Gusty Garden Galaxy's music isn't a work of art, or that much of the visual work throughout gaming isn't artistic.

And sure, financial demands, executives, committees, etc., perhaps do devalue and limit some of the artistic notion of video games...but art usually has its limitations, and massive projects by massive teams will always be driven by at least some passionate individuals (although personally I think art is less about intention and more about the outcome).

On a similar point to that final parenthesis - I also fundamentally disagree that games need a deeper message to be considered "art". Something can inspire emotion without being allegorical or trying to convey anything particularly deep. Are the over-the-top action sequences in Bayonetta a work of art? I'd argue yes.

Good example @jump. I would add that at a point in their career The Beatles had a certain amount of artistic and professional freedom. They were able to stop touring and make music that couldn't be replicated by conventional live performances. They were also allowed a lot of studio time (relatively) to work. 12 albums in 10 years is phenomenal though and they accomplished more in that time than most do in their entire careers. I believe you're right in saying that the business side of their music had positive influences. Parlophone and Epstein knew how to market them in the beginning and if they didn't have that surge of popularity they wouldn't have had the foundation for their last six (and debatabley better) albums.

I don't know diddly about Shakespeare though - so i'll take your word on that one 😉

I had to look up Damien Hirst. I have seen 'The physical impossibility of death...' before but outside of that (and the one Red Hot Chili Peppers album cover) I'm not familiar with him. I glanced at his Wikipedia page. He kind of sounds like an art pimp. And the whole "animals in formaldehyde" is more of a shock value thing to me. I've had to dissect fetal pigs preserved in formaldehyde and they made me feel much more than the (admittedly bitchin') shark.

Something like eutierria or ambience?

Yeah there are games that have a lot of artistic merit like Metroid Prime and BOTW which are fantastic but as good as they are I'm still looking for that one undeniable example you can't argue with it. Maybe I'm just fussy.

@Losermagnet To be honest I was just using examples of people who are accepted as top of their fields rather than ones I'm fans of.

I'm not a keen on Damien Hirst but he's probably the biggest (bad) contemporary name of today I can think of for art-art although he's probably bigger in the UK than in America, my missus is the art expert so I've gone to a few exhibits of his to see his stuff with her and she's says what you said of he's a shock artist more than anything else and is a proper hack nowadays. The last time I saw his work the main attraction was a room filled with thousands of living butterflies, I'm not entirely sure what was trying to be expressed by it. I much prefer the work of Yayoi Kusama, she’s mental, with her work being about obsession and attention of detail so you see her use thousands of dots all placed in the exact spot of her choosing to convey how nuts she is with details. I actually was meant to be seeing her new exhibit but literally days before the coivd lockdowns happened.

@jump I didn't know the word eutierria but yeah something like that. That feeling of insignificance compared to the enormity of the natural world.

Maybe but either way having a deeper message does elevate it above just another game imo. It's the difference between watching something like Soul or Inside Out from Pixar and watching The Trolls Movie.

@jump All quite subjective though. Tbh I often find works trying to overtly portray some sort of message to be quite pretentious. Other works don't have a clear "message" but will inspire emotion in a way that feels a lot more organic (back to the Mario Galaxy example - there's no message here but it generates a feeling of wonder and excitement).

@timleon I find what really sticks to mind about Galaxy is Rosalina's backstory which is deliberate heart string pulling.

@jump The Trolls Movie has a message. It's "Don't Watch the Trolls Movie"

I agree with @timleon though regarding works that have a "message." Or try to be "art". Be it games or movies, the medium gets lost and all that remains is a propaganda/PR/political campaign/ad more times than not. Granted, something like Pikmin has an environmentalism theme at its core, and it occasionally overtly hits on that, but it never gets in the way of the work itself. But then you take most of the "message" games, and my favorite dead horses to beat with that are Naughty Dog and worse, David Cage games that more and more are either a political or forced social commentary piece with a game attached. But the public eats that stuff up as "art." Same in independent film. The more overtly political and preachy it is the more "artistic" and "brave" it becomes. "Art" and "culture" is repackaged for the masses as pre-defined talking points to feel aligned with high minded thinkers, the same way opera was art music repackaged for the new middle class masses in the 18th century...now with lyrics so the "simpletons" can understand it. (Kind of an irony that opera today is the pinnacle of elitism and snobbery. When it debuted it was the opposite, it was dumbed down music for the simple masses that can't understand music without lyrics....it was the Kanye of its day. Composers resented having to cater to such base forms, but it paid the bills. )