Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

I disagree. Sometimes the control scheme is complex because the gameplay necessitates it. Obviously good controls feel as intuitive as possible, but I believe this is more difficult for some gameplay styles to achieve than others.

For example, people complain about Kid Icarus Uprising's controls. Sure, they can take a while to get the hand of...but can you think of a better way they could have been implemented given the gameplay?

In other cases it's more of a trade-off. Skyward Sword, for example, lost the intuitive simplicity of its combat, while gaining what I believe to be some satisfying depth (though others would disagree). I argue that it's a great experience for one Zelda game, but not something that should be a series staple.

@Buizel:
Yeah Kid Icarus Uprising is the sort of game that people tend to say that with, though actually I don't put that one into the category of a control scheme that becomes great once you get used to it, because I personally believe in that instance it's a control scheme that remains utterly miserable even if I'd spent 3,000 years playing it, ha! (I love the game otherwise though) In any case, in terms of how I would have implemented a better one given the gameplay. Well, the flying sections is easy because you could just lift it straight from Starfox on the SNES/N64 (ie. a game that has flying and shooting at the same time). There's no need for flying and aiming to be independent from each other like they are in Uprising (thus causing the awkward, uncomfortable button/touch screen hybrid). You just fire in the direction you're moving, ala Starfox. As for the on-foot sections, well I guess I would take them from a 3D third-person action/shooting game from the pre-twin stick PS1/N64 era. Jet Force Gemini perhaps. Or maybe third-person approximations of Goldeneye or Metroid Prime shooting (neither of which required twin sticks/touch screen/gyro, etc).

@Haywired: See with the Kid Icarus vs. Starfox comparison (let's say the 3DS remake as I'm familiar with that one) I would argue that there's a trade-off. Starfox gains from simplicity what it loses from reduced control and lack of precision. I personally prefer the Kid Icarus scheme as it allows me to more easily dodge enemy attack without sacrificing my offence, and I also find the analog stick a bit stiffer to aim with than the touch screen. In fact, I would even say that if you reduce Starfox and Kid Icarus down to the simple aiming controls (i.e. analog vs. touch screen), to someone with absolutely no experience the latter would feel more intuitive, especially since with Starfox you've got the hassle of learning either normal or reverse control (I swear sometimes they both feel wrong!)

As for the on-foot sections, I don't have enough experience with the games that you've mentioned to possibly comment! I'll accept that these sections are probably where the controls are more debatable though.

I actually think Star Fox and Star Fox 64 controls would be considered weird compared to similar games. Most of those types of games have flying and aiming separate from each other.

@Buizel:
Yeah I think for the on-foot sections there would probably also be a slight trade off. You perhaps wouldn't get quite as precise aiming, but I personally would take that over the discomfort I had playing KI:U.

@Haywired: What about Splatoon? Do you think two analog sticks are better than analogs+gyro? I think the latter is faster and more precise, but it takes a couple of hours to get used to.

@Freeon-Leon:
With Splatoon I used both, but actually ended up settling on the twin stick option. And I don't really play a lot of shooters so it wasn't just because that's what I was used to or anything. It just felt more intuitive to me for some reason. The Gamepad-style gyro aiming felt weird and erratic to me. I think I would have been fine with Wiimote-style gyro aiming though.

@Haywired: I've played a good amount of shooters and I can say gyro+analogs are superior. While it requires some time to get used to, at the end your movements feel more natural and intuitive, and it's definitely superior when it comes to quick reactions.

My whole point is, not because the control scheme isn't natural at first, it means it's got bad controls. It's just due to the conventions of gaming at the time that the controls can feel wierd. I'd encourage everyone to try playing a shooter with gyro, it might not be for everyone though.

Btw, S+ rank squid here, I won the unofficial NLife Splatournament too

I'd say what we're really discussing is the need to unlearn what you already know. A great example for us old-timers: console FPS controls. We only had one analog stick, so obviously that was how the controls worked. Halo was the first twin-stick FPS I played, and my first impression was that the dual analog setup was hopelessly gimmicky and detracted from the quality of the game. Needless to say, that was a situation where the controls really were great, but required you to get used to it.

An interesting variant is the game Wings of Vi. Standard fare punishingly difficult platformer with one key variation: you could jump in midair - like a double jump, but only the one jump. You could do a standard jump, or run off the edge and jump. It's a key technique required for basic progress. The controls aren't flawed in and of themselves - given the genre, the controls have to be extremely precise and responsive, which they are. So it wouldn't be fair to say that the control setup is bad - its only flaw is that it differs from the mainstream convention. But this differing is precisely what gives it its special character, differentiating it from the pack.

That being said, I consider it unforgivable for any modern game to not have an option to configure your control preferences. The more complex the controls, the less forgivable. You can make it difficult to find, buried behind a couple menus, but I want it to be there.

Tied into that, I cannot stand the narcissism of game developers who insist that they must ensure the "integrity" of their game experience. I loved Binding of Isaac, but McMillen kept pushing arbitrary changes to the experience, to close loopholes of gamers playing the game in some manner other than his "original intent." Han shot first, dangit!

@CreamyDream: Star Fox Assault is amazing. My personal favorite is still Star Fox Command, I liked the strategy elements, even if the combat got a bit repetitive. But Assault was an awesome game and I wish it would get a face-lift.

Since we're talking Starfox, I loved the post-64 titles and I'd love to see another game like Adventures. On top of that, I think the series needs to look towards Assault to truly evolve(don't know about Zero yet since I haven't played it)

Hell a good amount of Assault's problems simply lie on lack of polish

I have enjoyed every Star Fox game. They are Thunderbirds-era pulp in video game form. Sue me, critics.

Ooh, Star Fox is the trending topic. Alright, here I go...
Star Fox Command sucks. Almost everything about it sucks. It's one of those games that I was pretty hyped to play but wanted to trade it in after playing for a while.
First things first, Command should be the go-to game when learning about how NOT to do a story. Simply put, Command's story is a mess. It goes too far in some parts, it stops short in some places. There's no balance in the story. It starts with Andross and doesn't have a rock solid ending. It's just rubbish.
Next, the strategy part wasn't likeable to me. Sometimes it felt tacked on to me, which led to the feeling that Star Fox isn't really meant for strategy kind-of game. And some of the fighter jets just felt unbalanced; it felt like it was impossible to play effectively with the Arwings of certain characters.
The good parts were multiplayer mode and the music; the latter to a degree. Everything else is just lame. I didn't even say anything about the controls, which were okay in my book. I'm really glad Zero didn't go down the Command route.

@Vee_Flames: I completely disagree and agree. Command was awesome, mostly because of the strategy part. I can't remember the story at all but I will play through it again on Wii U soon... probably before the end of the year at least. Command and Assault constantly compete for my favorite Star Fox game, but I most ignore story in most games lol.

To hit on your last part, I don't think Star Fox 64 is too short but rather lacks additional modes instead, like similar arcade style home console games beat em up and racers have tons of extra modes in addition of the main one. I must have spent 50+ hours as a kid playing it over and over again so I can't say I didn't get my money's worth.

When was hating Command ever unpopular? That game seems more divisive than even Adventures nowadays

I think both the GCN Starfox games are amazing. I want another game like Adventures someday, in terms of one where Fox is doing more than controlling a machine. I liked being able to see details from ground level on a planet instead of just flying up in the air or moving forward in a tank or w/e. Maybe they can do one with Corneria or Venom where you get out and explore.

@DarthNocturnal: I think with Star Fox Zero, everything has rebooted. 64, Adventure, Assault, and Command never happened. (SNES was basically a stand-alone Star Fox game with no connection to the others)

@Buizel: The problem with uprising is that there are two different game modes where the control scheme gets different but in Zero, its the same throughout with slight differences.

I got the hang of the Air battles easily and that control scheme works perfectly on that. But the land battles are just plain awful with those schemes as you need extreme quick reflexes and whatnot. I will agree that the game is fun because there are lots of things really good about the game as I constantly play it now and then but Zero sounds to have the better of the controls because it requires you to practice getting used to them.

Uprising offers you control customization but it really wants you to use the default if you want to beat the higher intensities.

@CreamyDream: Maybe, if SFZ does well enough, they will revisit Dinosaur planet in a different way.