@Ralizah: For the last time, I never once said that every single mobile game is bad and a waste of time. I said that the model, epitomised by the hacks at EA and Square-Enix with their POS Dungeon Keeper and Final Fantasy games that were developed specifically for the platform show that gameplay is a secondary concern for a lot of major publishers when making mobile 'games'. There are lots of good games in the rough, if you include semi-competent ports, but the fact that after a lot of market research and focus group testing that's what those two companies ended up with is enough for me at least to have a lot of scorn for that sector of the industry.
PLEEEEEEEEASE say that you got it this time. It has nothing to do with taking 2 completely random games from the millions that there are on IOS and Android and ignoring everything else like your hyperbolic comparisons constantly suggest. Nor is it to do with just the fact that they are 'bad games' which was yet again you getting the wrong end of the stick. It is simply that nowhere else is the scum and greed of EA, Square-Enix and others more evident than in a sector of the industry where their consumers are less experienced and more susceptible to their sleazy tactics, so much so that they hold the very notion of gameplay to ransom in these 'games'. The fact that after being burned by these two games I have to check to be sure that a mobile game even has gameplay in it is why I can't think of mobile gaming without scorn and contempt.
Don't make another hyperbolic comparison, I'll reach my lifetime limit of hyperbolic comparisons if you do.
@AlliMeadow: I don't know for certain why they're censoring so many of their games lately, as I don't have access to that information. However, as I said before, there is no evidence that the removed content would have affected sales much either way. What they are doing is angering and alienating many of their core, long-time fans, and setting a dangerous precedent with the increasing levels of censorship.
If they were only removing saucier outfits and whatnot from games not clearly aimed at adults, I'd probably agree with you that they were just toeing the line with regard to age ratings worldwide. The fact that this censorship seems to extend over a wide range of games, including games that are only marketed toward adults, however, makes it seem extremely unlikely that this is the case.
Currently Playing: Resident Evil Village: Gold Edition
@TheLastLugia: I agree that the model in games like Dungeon Keeper and All the Bravest is a bad one, but I don't see how you can generalize that to the majority of their releases. Actually, let me take that back. I have no idea what EA's mobile releases are like, because I don't play their games. What I can say, however, is that, of the scores of great mobile games released by SE, I can count the number of games like All the Bravest on one hand. So it seems unfair of you to judge the mobile output of the company based off one or two bad games.
You said: "The fact that after being burned by these two games I have to check to be sure that a mobile game even has gameplay in it is why I can't think of mobile gaming without scorn and contempt." Isn't this kind of like saying that you can't take console games seriously anymore because a few big publishers like ubisoft are prone to releasing buggy, sometimes borderline unplayable games at launch?
Currently Playing: Resident Evil Village: Gold Edition
@diwdiws: That's just the point. What the hell did they publish/release last year? Not that many games at all.
@DarthNocturnal: Problem is that I need to get a desktop inorder to play their "So called great games". Besides, I just played a couple of Sega Genesis games and besides revenge of Shinobi and Phantasy star 2, the other games are just generic and boring to play. Beyond Oasis is barely fun for instance.
Sometimes, seeing a game can give an easy judgement of whether the game is worth purchasing or not. Are you trying to tell me to get Sonic Boom knowing that the game is horrible?
Have you tried any of the Shining Force games? I personally think you would like those games seeing how you feel about Fire Emblem.
"I'll take a potato chip... AND EAT IT!"
Light Yagami, Death Note
"Ah, the Breakfast Club soundtrack! I can't wait 'til I'm old enough to feel ways about stuff!"
Phillip J. Fry, Futurama
@CreamyDream: I agree with a lot of the points you put forward. Clearly Mario Kart 8 is a great (see what I did there?) game, but it's not one without its flaws, most of which you point out there, lack of game modes, making characters unimportant, generally easy AI. The only one I don't agree with is the one about the items, it was ridiculous is precious MK games that you could have triple bananas behind you THEN pick up another single one, theoretically protecting against 4 shells. Oh and the anti-gravity was cool enough and substantial enough to make a lot of the tracks way better than they would've been without it, such as the few (can't remember which exactly) older courses that had anti-gravity sections added in 8.
Though I'm not the most passionate MK fan ever so my standards for it are lower than others'. As long as it's fun I'm in basically
@Ralizah: That's a more sensible comparison at least. A better one that I'll give you for free is that ID Software had to be asked whether or not Doom 4 contained microtransactions, and were subsequently praised when they confirmed their game did not contain any. That in itself sums up the rot of big console games at this moment, and it unquestionably makes me negative of these games before I even buy them (Naughty Dog Points in Uncharted 4 anyone?). These issues, whilst undoubtably a problem, are more easily ignored though than my main gripe with mobile games, I'm several hours into Assassin's Creed Syndiacte for example and have yet to encounter (though they're there) any microtransactions, as opposed to 5-10 minutes that numerous mobile games will let you 'play' before demanding money.
You may think it harsh to judge SE (or at least their mobile games) based off of All the Bravest, but 'you're only as good as your last game' is a popular phrase (mainly used for sport but I think it fits here) that I will use to sum up my opinion. The last mobile game I downloaded and spent money on from SE was All the Bravest so that's what I'll judge them on. I may give them another chance, certainly Tomb Raider GO has my attention, but I wouldn't put it past them at all to release a 'Dragon Quest/Kingdom Hearts All the Bravest', rather than right the wrongs of the Final Fnatasy version.
@CreamyDream: Totally agree with almost all of your criticisms. MK8 is inferior to 7 and DS in almost every substantial way.
@TheLastLugia: I get that you don't like SE, but given the fact that the majority of their mobile games AREN'T like this, can you understand why I think your attitude toward them is irrational? Let alone extending this attitude to the entire industry of mobile games.
I get what you're saying. Many companies are releasing crappy freemium games that attempt to bury the player in microtransactions and design the game around only being fun after a few hours if you do purchase these "optional" things. I agree this is something that is bad and should be opposed. Actually, the focus on microtransactions is the main reason I haven't touched that free Pokemon match-3 game on the 3DS. But I don't think it makes sense to say that mobile games in general shouldn't be taken seriously because of games like these.
Like anything else, one has to sift through the crap to find the gold. This is, arguably, the burden of the consumer. I can list the number of purchases I've actually regretted making on one hand, and it's because I'm very careful about how I spend my money. All the resources are out there for a person to make an educated decision about a game they're going to buy. This isn't ideal, of course, but it's the situation we find ourselves in. If you're worried about a mobile game, you have many strategies available to you. You can read reviews from professional critics and reviewers. You can read player reviews. You can watch footage of it on youtube.
@Ichi
I'm sorry to derail the thread guys but I had to log in to tell you I adore your Shintaro Katsu/Zatoichi avatar (and the fact that you are just plain ichi, your sig is funny) I'm a HUGE Zatoichi fan and there can only be one man for that role. I'm going to let you get back to rolling dice with everyone else here.
Ok back to whatever y'all were discussing.
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I don't know for certain why they're censoring so many of their games lately, as I don't have access to that information. However, as I said before, there is no evidence that the removed content would have affected sales much either way. What they are doing is angering and alienating many of their core, long-time fans, and setting a dangerous precedent with the increasing levels of censorship.
I don't think they have been censoring more lately, I think the gap of information between Japan and the West has gotten way smaller the last couple of years. You always hear about retro collectors going for a Japanese collection because the games are all different.
Personally I don't think it's about censorship or sales per se, but that it has been a custom since Japanese games started to come over to the west, when strong cultural differences had to be represented in a different way or even left out only for the game to survive the market.
Now the differences are smaller, and the interest for, and even the understanding of Japanese culture is bigger, while Nintendo is being slow as always and not getting this, they're just doing what they always have been doing. I agree they're alienating their core fans, but I don't think they're doing so knowingly.
Well, another thing is also that they're publishing games with more mature content in the West than they used to. Fatal Frame IV never even made it overseas, Fire Emblem if has more of a focus on interpersonal relationships than any of the previous games, and the last time Nintendo published a big open-world RPG in the West was... years back with the original Xenoblade.
Censorship issues don't really crop up much with their usual Zelda/Mario/Pikmin stuff.
Innovation won't save this industry. AAA Game companies learning from studios that actually know what they're doing will And it wouldn't even take a miracle. It would take game publishers looking to the publishers that are succeeding in this industry and saying "okay, let's be like that".
.....now that I think about it, the miracle would probably be more likely to happen than the latter outcome.
"I'll take a potato chip... AND EAT IT!"
Light Yagami, Death Note
"Ah, the Breakfast Club soundtrack! I can't wait 'til I'm old enough to feel ways about stuff!"
Phillip J. Fry, Futurama
I believe Mario Kart 8 is a regression for the series and overall one my least favorite entries.
OK, let's begin dissecting this post now, shall we?
The largest one by far is the new mechanic of only being able to hold one item at a time. This forces players ahead in the race to play defensively, as throwing an item backwards would leave them defenseless and vulnerable. This issue is also worsened by the sheer lack of item blocks in each track.
In previous Mario Kart entries, players could hold two items, which allowed for a larger variety of optimal strategies that just aren't present in Mario Kart 8. As a result, MK8 feels less dynamic and varied.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is true. First place players could hold on to a banana/shell/etc to protect him/her for the rest of the match. I don't see how having two items changes anything. It can even be argued that holding two items increases the player's chances of playing defensively. Of course, it could go both ways, but bottom line is that one or two or three items, I don't see how having two items in hand is the only way to provide a more dynamic and varied game.
You could argue that this was done to put a larger emphasis on skill, but I disagree because there is such a small skill-cap for Mario Kart 8, that players can only get so good at it. It takes very little time to master Mario Kart 8, and once you do, there isn't much more improvement to be made. I am not saying this to brag, but in very little time within owning the game, I triple-starred it and when playing online, I most often placed very well in races. There isn't much skill to be had in MK8; it's shallow as a racing game that's not only easy to play, but easy to master.
And isn't this the case for literally all the Mario Kart games? It's easy to master and easy to play; in fact, that's the point of Mario Kart. It's supposed to be a series that's immediately accessible to all sort of players and provide a good time. There isn't much
skill to be had in any Mario Kart game. Sure, there's snaking in MKDS, but we all know that's not intentional. If you want a challenge, try playing Time Trials and beating other players' times. This applies to all MK games, in fact.
This is emphasized by several minor details in the gameplay- particularly in the gliding and underwater mechanics. When gliding in Mario Kart 7, players were given a lot of freedom with what they can do when gliding; however, a lot of those freedoms were stripped from players in Mario Kart 8. For example, in Toad's Turnpike when gliding off a truck, the game often cuts off your glider, forcing you back on the ground with no explicable reason. I understand this was done to prevent players from doing anything crazy like flying over the walls, but it comes off as a lazy constraint that steam-lines the experience in a shallow way.
Wait, you were limited in movement when gliding in MK8? Totally new to me. And why would you want to glide all over the place in the first place? So you could find an exploit? Nah. I don't think that's how it works.
As for the underwater, the physics were changed in MK8 to make it feel a lot like the physics of being on land. The underwater physics in Mario Kart 7 affected the gameplay substantially more and made races feel genuinely more dynamic. This is watered-down in MK8.
No, it is not. In fact, in MK8 there's the feeling that you have more control of your kart than ever before since in other cases the controls might feel slippery in underwater sections. And I think you're using the word "dynamic" wrong here, as I don't see how MK7 underwater sections are "dynamic." ???
You could argue that the anti-gravity alleviates this, but I feel that anti-gravity is almost purely aesthetic and holds almost no changes to the gameplay. I understand you can bump into races and objects to get a boost, but it doesn't do much at all...
Yet, bumping into other karts or objects probably the first thing you do when you switch to anti-gravity mode. The boosts are more than enough as a change as it gives you an incentive to bump into other players and things (and it helps in Time Trials, too). Bumping into other players on normal road now feels so lifeless, unsatisfying and kills the flow of the race a little, but bumping into those things in anti-gravity mode keeps the flow going. Plus the view in anti-gravity mode can be nice, too.
Another thing is that the AI is as easy as ever, making offline play boring. Whether playing alone, or with friends, it's too easy to leave computers in the dust. Previous Mario Kart entries used a healthy amount of rubber-banding to level the playing field, making the AI opponents a genuine threat, and therefore making races less predictable and more fun. 200cc doesn't alleviate this at all, as the AI's difficulty remains the same.
Mario Kart 8 is probably the same difficulty as MK7, if not more. In fact, scratch that; MK8 is much more difficult than MK7 and MKDS combined. It's really hard to get 3 stars in all the cups when the AI can be very unfair at times. That's one of the problems in MK8, by the way... unfair AI. There's nothing like rubber-banding in MK8; IT SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. In Mario Kart DS, you can leave other racers in the dust with snaking.... if that helps, lol
Next up, is that I don't like the character roster or customization. There are more characters than ever before, but it's also more homogenized than ever before. Because any character can use any vehicle part, all the characters end up feeling the same. Characters have nothing particular to them, and because you can skew the stats to suit however you want to play, their weight doesn't matter much at all either. You can make Toadette push Donkey Kong off the track. I don't feel like there's any point in the character I choose. Also, I don't like the omission of "wheelies" for motorcycles; it's just another detail that makes MK8 more shallow than previous games.
Overstretching things here, aren't we? Character weight does matter. I can't believe I have to say that! There are heavy karts and parts and then there are light parts, just so you know.
Yeah, I'll give you the wheelie argument, though... I wish it came back. Oh well...
Lastly, there are other little things outside of the core experience like the lack of extra modes, or even an options menu to change controls and sound levels that add to my unfavorable opinion of Mario Kart 8.
Such as? Shall we not forget that MK7 didn't give you the simple VS option? You had to play a cup to get to your favorite course in that cup. I didn't mind it, TBH... but let's not pretend that some MK games didn't give you some options.
I would rather play previous entries in the series (particularly MKDD, MKWii, and MK7) over MK8. Even alternatives like Crash Team Racing and Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed are more fun, competent, and creative.
I can't see myself going back to MK7, myself. Mario Kart 7 feels too slow and I feel it didn't come up to the standards and legacy of MKDS. Mario Kart Wii is probably the unfairest of the modern Mario Kart games. Choose the Manual drifting mode and you're pretty much guaranteed to lose so badly. Mario Kart 8 is simply the best of the Mario Kart games.
MK8 is inferior to 7 and DS in almost every substantial way.
LOL no. Just no. Course design? MK8. Music? MK8. Balance? Probably a tie. Visuals? Let's not go there. Gamelay? MK8.
So let's correct that little statement of yours. MK8 is clearly superior to 7 and DS in almost every substantial way. There, better.
People rant that Mobile gaming is awful but I want to rant that Mobile Marketing is a nightmare and is telling me that I'm better off making console games instead of Mobile.
Seriously, thousands of devs lose over mobile. Competition wise, its unhealthy. Purchasing wise, its awful and finally gameplay wise, its never rock solid majority of the times.
I'm positive that if this keeps up, Mobile gaming will crash. I don't want it to crash but if the marketing is damn brutal in wrong ways, the best way to save those devs from losing their jobs is to avoid mobile gaming. Sure, its accessible but hey, so is PC.
Mario Kart DS was the ugliest MK game. Music was lousy. Online was terrible. Controls were meh. The weird custom logo = why bother? Just to give it some use of the stylus and ability to draw on the system I guess. Did give us a few really great courses to race on though.
@CreamyDream: Finally someone else that agrees MK8 being one the weakest entry.
While I like the music, the overall feel of the graphics and the nice DLC, my main complaints were on how boring the MK8 track designs were. Sure, they looked spectacular, but they are boring (only a few did stand out for me)
I ended playing more the retro tracks more because I like how they translated into this game and provide the interesting action they original had.
My most gripe with this are the controls, just awful. They feel so stiff and you can't do some stuff you could in previous games. Sort of feels casualized. You can clearly see this in 200cc mode. You barely do a sharp turn when drifting. Give it any of the past games a 200cc mode and one could race easier in the tracks.
Still, I think MK64 is the weakest entry of all, on how is basically a multiplayer MK.
@Dankykong: Heh, I agree. The game itself looks ugly. I tried to replay it and the controls didnt clicked at first, but eventually it delivers.
Dunno about the custom logo, I thought it was a little neat detail. Mostly you could "port" a sprite from a retro game.
Other than that, yeah online failed because not all the courses were available from some reason. I remember getting an Action Replay so I could play the offline courses (Which worked fine) and to stop cheaters who spammed lighting bolts.
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