Topic: The Universal Games Ranking Forum (Currently: Characters/Weapons/etc. You Hate Playing Against)

@BigYellow Well then, good luck with your studies. I still have September before heading back to university.

I can't wait to share my list for 3D Mario Games 😏

@LegendOfPokemon Well, you shouldn't have to wait much longer, I'll close the poll in about an hour.

As for Mario winning... we'll see.

Edit: Aaaaaand it's closed. Gimme a second while I tally 'em.

I've the votes sorted, here's our new topic.
1st - 3D Mario Games - 55% (11 Votes)
2nd - Best Hidden/Underplayed Features/Modes in Games - 25% (5 Votes)
3rd - Spin-off Pokemon Games - 20% (4 Votes)
4th - Worst Mistakes/Missed Opportunities in Nintendo Games - 0% (0 Votes)

Would you look at that, Worst Mistakes/Missed Opportunities in Nintendo Games is the first option to get no votes. Come on, Nintendo ain't perfect.

That aside, 3D Mario Games is our new topic! I'll get something out later, but for now ye can go ahead. Some suggestions for the next topic would be handy too.

Happy Slaughtering of 3D World!

Personally speaking, these are my favourites:

1) Super Mario Galaxy 2 (I prefer the orchestra soundtrack and the HUB in the original game however, in terms of craziness, fun and the sheer variety of levels, the sequel outshines the first Galaxy in almost every way)
2) Super Mario Galaxy
3) Super Mario 3D Land (played this first, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time with it)
4) Super Mario 3D World (played this after 3D Land, and feels a little bit too similar to be perched above it)
5) Super Mario Sunshine (those FLUDD-less were the best thing about the game, and I love the beach theme too, but from what I can remember, it was a rather uneven and somewhat frustrating game to play)
6) Super Mario 64 (it was an absolutely remarkable game for its time, but it feels slow and sluggish to play nowadays, especially in comparison to the more recent 3D Super Mario games)

1. Super Mario Sunshine
2. Super Mario 64
3. Super Mario Galaxy
4. Super Mario 3D World
5. Super Mario Galaxy 2

Sunshine has one of the better level designs I've seen in a Mario game. I liked the episodic nature of each world and the progression throughout the episodes. FLUDD's awesome and the controls overall are one of the best. 64 is a close second. Not a big fan of the later levels, the game is also starting to show its age. Galaxy was great too, but I wasn't a fan of the linear level design. 3D World is the best 2D Mario game. And Galaxy 2 was just more of Galaxy but with a disappointing HUB world, and without the epic space levels. They should've called it Super Mario Skybox.

I haven't played all the 3D Mario games, but...

1. Super Mario Galaxy 2

This game is one of the best games on Wii both technically and enjoyment-wise. Every aspect of this game is brilliantly-done and makes for a superbly fun title.

2. Super Mario 3D World

Yes, it's not a traditional 3D Mario game, but it took the foundation set by 3D Land and created a beautiful, polished, and immensely fun experience. I would love to see it ported to the Switch so I can play it on the go 😃

3. Super Mario 3D Land

SM3DL doesn't have any new game-changing mechanics besides introducing individual 3D stages, but I still found it a lot of fun, and I definitely recommend it.

4. Super Mario 64

I'm sorry, but I'm not a fan of Super Mario 64. I know how important it is for 3D platformers, and I understand why it's beloved by so many, but I've played it many times over the past couple years and I just can't seem to enjoy myself while doing so. It might be the camera, the wonky controls, or the fact that I played the newer 3D Marios before this one. If Super Mario 64 is at the top of your list, I totally understand why, but as of now it's my personal least favorite 3D Mario game.

Woo boy, this is gonna take a while to write but better get started now when it's hot.

So, as always, a few words in regards to my (extensive) history with the 3D Mario games. Basically, I've played them/watched them by played ever since I can think or remember things. As I've already mentioned a bunch of times, Sunshine has been my first game to be ever completed 100% (though this won't save it from being roasted later on). And before it, I've watched my dad play Mario 64 when I was too little to even play Mario Party minigames, let alone a later on frustrating game like Mario 64. I love both Sunshine and 64, and this is by no means a spoiler for the ranking to come, just like I like Galaxy 1 and 2 quite a lot. Not love but they're both excellent games. I love 64 (and Sunshine to a slightly lesser extent) for the freedom you're provided, you feel like an adventurer, exploring every nook and cranny of the then expansive worlds. You feel like you're own master on your own adventure. You're not set on a linear path like in SMB and later on in the Galaxy games, 3D Land and 3D World.

Also another thing I feel required to point out is that when I think of Mario, I think of 3D Marios. I'm a child born during the dawn of 3D gaming who, for the first decade of his life, believed 2D games to be inferior simply because 3 is more than 2. Don't get me wrong, I think Super Mario World is a fantastic game, don't care for SMB1-3 too much tbh. But 3D Marios are a series so close to my heart that seeing it be stripped of its original freedom and adventure, beginning with Sunshine's levels often giving a sense of direction via arrow signs over Galaxy 1 and 2's linear level design to 3D Land and 3D World adopting the style of the dreadful and spiritless NSMB series. That is where my slight dislike to the Galaxy games and later deeply rooted hatred of 3D Land and World stem from. And I couldn't be happier to finally have them go back to 64's freedom and adventure with Odyssey next month. I've cried literal tears of joy last June watching the Treehouse live stream of Odyssey.

With that said, I shall take a quick break to look at the Splatfest results (Team Flight won, YES!!)

Anyway, let's get dangerous!

1. Super Mario 3D Land: You're expecting a rant from me, right? Just like I'll tear apart 3D World in a sec? Well, I did expect that as well but searching in my memories, I have literally no feelings for or memories of 3D Land. It's such a bland piece of product (similar to NSMB actually) that I couldn't say a word about it even if I tried. And that's because it's even worse than 3D World to me - that was at least memorable in a negative way. This is just nothing. I have no feeling except for my hatred of the direction they went with it and 3D World.

2. Super Mario 3D World: Alright, before I begin with my rant, let me point to the few positive things I have to say about this game. First of all, I like the multiplayer, which sadly because an unplayable cluster with three or four active players. One or two are doable but with more, it just becomes messy. Second, it has a few neat ideas for stages and the inclusion of Captain Toad levels, that lead to a fantastic and underrated puzzle game with the Captain in the starring role. I also like the slight change of Peach being a playable character. Why has this not been introduced in NSMB. It wouldn't make the series better whatsoever but at least it's better than a second Toad. Okay, that's everything. And here are the things I don't like about 3D World, aside from its linearity and similarity to NSMB: The postgame content are just mostly recycled and made harder levels from the main game, the bosses are lame, unmemorable, easy and are repeated too often, the final fight against Meowser is especially easy and anticlimatic, couldn't even afford a true boss battle, the character exclusive switches (how in the world should I have known that I need character x for that switch!? Great, now I need to replay the stage!) and the levels are mostly uninspired and just the typical ghost, sand, ice, jungle and so on levels. It's not a horrible game by any means, it simply doesn't live up to the high standards put forward by 64, Sunshine and the Galaxy's.

3. Super Mario Sunshine: Surprised to see Sunshine this low? Yeah, me too actually. But unlike with past nostalgia trips, I simply cannot rank it any higher with good conscience. I feel like this is Mario's Luigi's Mansion? They went with a theme, this being Summer and vacation, and just ran with it. What resulted from that were for its time beautiful locations that just get me into the summer mood anytime I replay Sunshine. Sadly, aside from the final level, and I get to that piece of white bread in a second, every level looks too much alike. Sure, they have slight variations (mountain village, beach, hotel, harbor) but I sort of miss the classic deserts, snow areas, haunted houses, jungles and so on. I also miss the freedom of tackling any mission you want when you want, with Sunshine's level layout being restricted to the previously selected mission. The bosses are far and few between but ultimately okay. I'd like to specifically mention the final level, thus spoilers are ahead: Mount Corona could have stood out so much. I mean, it's a freakin volcano and all you do is platform across a straight path. The set design could have been so much grander but it ultimately just feels easy and bland. I'd like to mention the stupid Shadow Mario chases that irritated me so much as a kid and they are repeated WAY too often. Sunshine did introduce Bowser jr., one of my all time favorite Mario characters, though.

4. Super Mario Galaxy: An absolutely fantastic game with a fantastic soundtrack, fantastic locations and a good hubworld. Plus, it introduced the world to everyone's darling, Rosalina. It's too linear for my tastes, though, the bosses are okay but not very memorable, the levels have too few stars for my tastes with many detours being locked behind a hungry Luma and not exploration based, post-game - this being Luigi doing all 120 stars over again - is pitifully unimaginative (I have collected all 241 stars, though) and the levels are too often set in space with many planets being quite small in scale.

5. Super Mario 64: The pinnacle of 3D Marios is my humble opinion is coincidentally the first one. The freedom to tackle most missions whenever you want, to figure out many missions on your own. Most world's missions start out simple (e.g. Tall Tall Mountain - Scale the Mountain!) and become more mysterious later on (Mysterious mountain side). There are even secrets to entering levels I hadn't known until a few years ago such as the water level changing depending on the height you enter Wet Dry World's painting or the speed of the gears changing depending on the time you enter Tick Tock Clock). Peach's Castle also houses many secret levels and stars. The camera is quite stiff nowadays and it doesn't look as spectacular anymore and I will forever refrain from completing the game whenever I replay it.

6. Super Mario Galaxy 2: While Galaxy 2 has a smaller and less eventful hubworld and still is rather linear, Galaxy 2 features more power-ups, more 'world planets' that are not just a sphere, better and more memorable bosses, a shorter yet better post-game with one of the toughest final levels in any Mario game. It's basically Galaxy 1, just better by a large margin.

And now, after more than one hour, I am finally done with my ranking.

1. Super Mario Galaxy 2

I just like the design more. Its harder. More to do. More mechanics. Cuts some fluff out. Its awesome!

2. Super Mario Galaxy

My first 3D Mario and 2nd Mario overall. Everything is gopd good. A few missions drive me nuts but the variety is great.

3. Super Mario Sunshine

I really like this game. Blue Coins can be rough though. FLUDD is an excellent device and allows for great freedom in exploring and ehat Mario can do and the control is just sublime. Overall level variety isnt great though.

4. Super Mario 3D....Land

Yes. My first 3DS game. Honestly I could swap 3, 4 and 5 around at will but I prefer the concise level design and pick up and play nature of 3D Land. Its a neat idea to put 2d mechanics in a 3d game.

5. Super Mario 3D World

Got to say its fun. Its great. Looks and sounds amazing. But its a bigger 3D Land and some levels rub me the wrong way. I think this game overstays its welcome a bit but the coop and characters are nice as well as some of the lesser used mechanics. As I said, jumble this, Land and Sunshine around a lot.

6. Super Mario 64. (And DS)

So it would have been great for its time. Not now. Mario is heavy and awkward, skme design choices are inconsistent or infuriating and the game as a whole can be fun but other times cryptic and seemingly vague just so you dont have fun. Its a mixed bag but it gets worse with level design and ideas, and consistency, as the game goes on.

And DS...that shouldnt exist.

@GoldenGamer88 It's funny, cause the level variety is one of the reasons why I like Sunshine the most. I like minimalism, and I also believe that creativity stems from limitations. The idea of limiting yourself to a single location; a tropical island, makes me appreciate the level design even more. You can't just throw in an ice level or a desert level to get variety, you need to be creative with the tropical theme. I still think that like most of Sunshine being a weird variety of the standard Mario stuff (like the weird Strollin' Stu being a replacement for the Goomba), the levels also reflect this. You still get your Bob-omb Battlefield/grassy plains level in Bianco Hills, there's Ricco Harbor, an industrial water level, a stark contrast of the more organic and natural Noki Bay. Hotel Delfino is your ghost house, but a hotel fits the tropical island theme a lot better than a standard mansion. Pinna Park is... not sure what it represents, but being a theme park, its very different from all the other levels. Pianta Village is your ''fire level'' with lava goop and Chain Chomps set on fire. And I like to think that Gelato Beach is like a weird variation on the typical desert level, with those Dune Buds, the Sand Bird, and a sand themed FLUDD-less level. On top of that, Gelato Beach has more sand than any other level:

I like that it is not just another Mario game with a standard plains, beach, desert, volcano and mountain level.

1) Super Mario Galaxy 1: this game is one of my all time favourites, but if I try to judge all of those "all time favourites" in a more objective way then I really think this is the single BEST GAME EVER. A game so good... no, not just good, so meticolously perfect, and in such an unexpected, innovative and ingenious way, that I find it hard to believe another game could be better than it. I like Mario, expecially 3D Mario games, but this is incredible even compared to other games in this series

2) Super Mario Sunshine: this game was extremely fun and the graphics back then were unbelievable. Everything looked awesome, and the water was absolutely stunning! Gameplay was quite varied, interesting and the FLUDD made its gameplay unique and fresh. The only downside of the game was the setting that despite being very good and pleasant was not varied enough.

3) Super Mario 64: this game has the best "hub"/"overworld" of the entire series, the castle was so intriguing to explore! It was a great game back then, very entertaining, and it was awesome back then, but today it does not look that good anymore... N64 graphics did not age well but the game itself is still very good. I still remember Dire Dire Docks music that changed arrangement depending on what section of the stage you were, it was fantastic to hear those changes while you were playing!

4) Super Mario 3D Land: A fun and nice game, 3DS graphics are good still now and even if it was not as much 3D in its gameplay as the other games it was a good fit for a portable console. It was a bit disappointing at first because of that, but once I accepted this fact and tried to judge it for what it is it was a surprisingly satisfying and pleasant game.

5) Super Mario Galaxy 2: This game to me felt like it was for the most part made recycling discarded (bad) ideas from the first Galaxy game. All the stages were so random, uninteresting, shallow and boring compared to the first one. Having the possibility to ride Yoshi felt rather weird too. Yoshi felt somewhat out of place, and the majority of the stages were just bad with few exceptions. This is a game I really despise. I was really disappointed, if I had to give it a score it wouldn't be higher than 6/10, mediocre at best. Of course it was well made from a technical point of view, but all of its contents were uninteresting and boring. It was "well made", but there was no reason at all for it to be made since not only it was so worse compared to the first Galaxy, but also to every other 3D Mario game.

1. Sunshine

Sunshine is really underrated. Yes, FLUDD does remove some of the challenge in the platforming, but that's not the point, the game isn't supposed to be a super tough obstacle course like the 2D games (although the No FLUDD levels do provide that sort of experience). What the game excels in is providing an open 3D space and encouraging you to use your platforming skills to get around it. FLUDD really pairs well with the acrobatic platforming of this game to really allow you to think outside the box and complete levels in ways you might not have even considered, and there's all sorts of neat sequence breaks you can pull off with it. Another thing I also like about Sunshine is that each episode feels like well... an episode. You're not just collecting one Shine after another, the episodes of each world all form a sort of overarching plot with each of that world's inhabitants tackling the various problems in their area and the pollution on Isle Delfino and the world gets progressively cleaner and more peaceful as you go on.

2. Galaxy

Galaxy was a little more linear than most 3D games, but it made up for it with brilliant innovations to level design and game mechanics with the planetoid design and spin move. It's just a shame we didn't see anything more from this.

3. 64

Not as polished as some of the 3D games that came after it, but even today Mario 64 is still an enjoyable sandbox title that provides a lot of fun for people willing to wander around and explore.

4. Galaxy 2

Galaxy 2 really degraded the sandbox formula and made this feel more like NSMB in space. We saw less of the mechanics that made Galaxy such a fresh and mindblowing experience and more of the tired Mario conventions that made people sick of the NSMB series. Not a bad game, but definitely not as standout as the 3 ahead of it.

5. 3D Land

Once the novelty of this being the 2D formula in 3D wore off, this game felt just as generic and forgettable as the NSMB games it was inspired by. Like with many of the NSMB games, the game has a very "level pack" feel to it, there's no real improvements or interesting new mechanics involved here, it's just a regular old Mario game that sticks to every single convention that the 2D games have stuck to for the last 20-30 years. For its time it was mildly interesting, but now there's just nothing that stands out about it. Nothing whatsoever.

Haven't played 3D World, but that game would probably go between Galaxy 2 and 3D Land. 3D World didn't really do anything to break away from the "generic level pack rehash", so I have no interest in playing it. That being said, it did have a few interesting powerups and level themes, which would be enough for me to put it above 3D Land. Odyssey may also be my new #1, since it seems to be much better at providing the sense of having multiple ways to complete an objective and providing a much more open ended experience.

1. Super Mario Galaxy 1
2. Super Mario Galaxy 2
3. Super Mario 3D World
4. Super Mario 64
5. Super Mario 3D Land (sadly no 5 in this title :V)
6. Super Mario Sunshine

4. Super Mario 3D Land - The first 3DS game I ever played, primarily because it came with my OG red 3DS as part of a physical bundle. In hindsight the game was a little generic, but I appreciated the 3D elements and the return of the Tanooki suit. This is the only 3D Mario game that I've 100%ed since it was easy to do so (and I had more time on my hands then).
3. Super Mario 3D World - This is the most recent game on the list that I've played. While it didn't change too much from its predecessor, the addition of the cat suit was a plus, many of the pre-credit levels were enjoyable, more characters were at your disposal, and the Captain Toad levels were a blast.
2. Super Mario Galaxy 2 - While I would certainly list this game on a "Best Wii Games" list, I still feel like this one is outshined by the first game. While I liked the planetoid hub that you could drive around, I felt like the comet observatory from the first game was better. Some of the levels here were more difficult and creative, but I could argue that about some of the first game as well. The story (not a strong point of Mario games anyway) felt like a rehash of the first game, other than now we had giant Bowser. I did enjoy some of the new power ups, and while I like Yoshi, I felt like the game could have done without him. Honestly, at times this game felt like it would have been better as DLC to the first game.
1. Super Mario Galaxy - Narrowly my favorite game on this list. I loved unlocking different parts of the Comet Observatory and exploring them, Rosalina was an amazing character with an interesting back story (and a neat way of presenting it), and I generally had more fun with the levels and available power ups in this one. The ending in this game also made me feel something when those Lumas sacrificed themselves, unlike the pseudo-generic ending of its successor.

I haven't played Sunshine at all (though that'll be remedied if Nintendo ever introduces GameCube VC), and while I plan on still playing Super Mario 64, for now I've just barely touched the DS version; the controls weren't to my liking at all, and I'm not fond of playing as just Yoshi (even with those hat upgrades).

1. Super Mario Galaxy
2. Super Mario 3D World
3. Super Mario Galaxy 2
4. Super Mario Sunshine
5. Super Mario 64
6. Super Mario 3D Land

6. Super Mario 64 - never played it.

5. Super Mario Sunshine - barely played it, never owned it and haven't given it the time to get into it.

4. Super Mario Galaxy 2 - barely played it, only one level. I actually really liked the addition of Yoshi for adding an extra dimension or two to how you move and play, but I can't justify a higher ranking due to lack of play time, which is primarily because I've never beaten Galaxy.

3. Super Mario 3D Land - Really fun little game, but emphasis on the word 'little' because it doesn't take long to beat. That's not a complaint, not with a backlog like mine, but it's obviously a factor in this context.

2. Super Mario Galaxy - this is one of the very few Wii games that I actually bought at the time of release (or thereabouts), maybe even bought it when I bought my Wii. I wasn't big into gaming at the time so don't remember clearly, but I think I'd seen a review in a non-gaming magazine or something and so had the sense it was an essential Wii title. It is indeed a majestic game, the music and Galaxy theme really do set it apart and elevate it. But for whatever reason, I'm yet to beat it as it's never really compelled me to keep going.

1. Super Mario 3D World - This game is just fun, fun, fun. To me, this is the best game for demonstrating why Mario is such a successful IP, with a great balance between accessibility and tricky sections. I find in other Mario games, when the difficulty goes up, the fun goes down, but not in this. I can appreciate that 'pro' players might be disappointed in the lack of difficulty, but I think SM3DW is really what suits Mario best. The whole design and ethos of Mario to me is about fun, and this game is a real romp. Even when I replay levels with my daughter over and over, they never stop being fun. And, if there's any doubt between this and Galaxy, the multiplayer aspect has to be decisive - this is the game that's introduced my first child to proper video games, and I've been able to be right there in it with her all the way. Then, of course, the HD visuals just make it a complete homerun, and it's the current pinnacle of the platforming genre to me.

1. Super Mario Galaxy 2
2. Super Mario Galaxy
3. Super Mario 3D World
4. Super Mario 3D Land
5. Super Mario 64
6. Super Mario Sunshine

I prefer Galaxy 2 over Galaxy because I felt that the overall level design was improved, the suits/powerups were either better or easier to control and I preferred the Mario Bros. 3 style overworld hub. Also, Yoshi. 'Nuff said.

1) Sunshine - One of my favorite games of all time. The story is much more detailed than most other Mario games, and I love how getting the shine sprites is divided into episodes. FLUDD offered a lot of unique level designs that are always fun to replay, in my opinion. I've beaten the game three times, 100%ed it twice... it's still very likely that I will play through it again - I just love it! Only thing that I hate about it... no Luigi. 😠

2) Galaxy - Just a great game all around!

3) Galaxy 2 - The main reason why the original comes first to me is because of the much better story. I also really liked exploring the Comet Observatory, and only having Starship Mario in the sequel felt a bit dissapointing to me after that. Though, Galaxy 2 did have Yoshi and cool new power-ups, so while I still prefer the original, I still think Galaxy 2 is a fantastic game.

4) Super Mario 64 - I played quite a few levels of this game (the DS version at least), but have never actually beaten it. To be honest though, I probably spent more time playing the minigames than the actual game. lol XD The Wanted one is my favorite!

5) Super Mario 3D World - Not much for me to say about this game. I definietly enjoyed it more than 3D Land, but also loved the above games a lot more.

6) Super Mario 3D Land - Fun, but like others have said, doesn't take too long to beat.

2. Super Mario 3D Land
1. Super Mario Galaxy

Surprisingly, those are the only two I've ever owned. I've played a bit of 64 & Galaxy 2 due to rentals, but not enough to rank them (I'm more versed in 2D Mario, though).

While I'm here, may I suggest mainline Kirby games as a potential topic for next time?

Yeah, Kirby'd be a great topic! One of my all-time favorite franchises!