Biggest problem of the sequel trilogy for me is that it feels like it doesn't do enough to set up what's happening, instead relying on tie-in novels to explain things - and even the novelisations. This fleet of the Resistance in the latest trailer, for example, will probably have no setup within the film itself beyond maybe one or two lines. And yes, you could say why would you need to show them building themselves back up? Except... it's kind of a major plot point considering the end of The Last Jedi.
And as mentioned on the last page, the relationship between Kylo and Luke is pretty much non-existent within the films. Kind of telling that the novelisation of The Last Jedi got delayed to include some of that.
They're still good films to watch, with a mostly solid narrative between the two already released, but the reasons are there as to why they aren't great. Not that the overly-negative responses are warranted with just tiny bits being picked apart as to why the whole film sucks.
@Dezzy - I can understand thinking they made Luke worse, but what did they do to Han and Leia to make them worse for you?
Well they were less ruined than Luke. But they were both still very disappointing versions of their prior selves. The original Star Wars was so idealistic in its themes and how the character stories played out. You really get the sense that these are heroic, quasi-religious figures who had achieved something great. Luke especially is a kind of messianic figure.
Just the idea that it's 30 years later and they basically went on to do nothing else important. The rest of their lives were essentially nothing but failure. It's just not something I need to see in a fantasy series.
I wanted something like the original extended universe. They all went on to have interesting lives.
It will be interesting to see after everybody has watched the new movie if it will change anyones feelings on the trilogy as a whole. You may get a whole new perspective on things.
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" Optimus Prime
@Dezzy - To be fair, Leia founded the resistance movement that will likely end up being what stops the Empire from coming back, so at least she did something (and Han in the canon EU helped Chewie liberate Kashyyk). But yeah, I kinda get what you're saying; the new films don't really do much with their characters, besides using them as mentor figures, and for nostalgia. That said, their actual characters weren't really changed that much (from the OT films); yes, Han does go back to being a smuggler, but he's still the same guy we saw in ROTJ, just a little older. Same with Leia (though admittedly, it's hard to tell from the films alone given how little they gave her). They may not have managed to achieve legendary feats, but at least the essence of their characters remained (mostly) the same.
@Zeldafan79 - While that's certainly a possibility (If Episode III is anything to go by) and I'm more enthusiastic now having watched the new trailer than I was prior, I'm still a bit sceptical that J.J will pull this off, especially given what he's known for (setting up mystery box scenarios and never resolving them) and what he has to work with (A somewhat disjointed story trilogy).
Well yeah but they'd wiped out most of the empire at the end of RotJ. Both the second Death Star and the Executor (Super Star Destroyer) were destroyed in the Battle of Endor.
So giving her credit for creating the resistance seems kinda backwards. They deserve extreme discredit for allowing the First Order to arise, from a point where the rebels were completely in charge.
@Dezzy But it wasn't Leia personally who let them rise. She was the one campaigning against the reduction of the New Republic fleet while Mon Mothma was adamant that it wasn't needed. She was proven to be right when the First Order did indeed rise, and it was she who led the secret underground movement against the New Republic's wishes until they realised it was needed but still refused to play a part aside from secret funding.
@Dezzy - To be fair, they were only part of the team that led to the second Death Star's destruction, they didn't single-handedly do it themselves. Everyone who was there, from Lando and Wedge, to Luke and Vader, to the Ewoks and even the random A-Wing pilot who kamikazed into the Executor, everyone played a part in that victory.
Not really. It's not really mentioned in the films, but the novel Bloodlines makes it clear that Leia had been actively fighting the FO from the moment she realised they were out there (in fact, she was one of the first who found out about them). The only problem was: 1. They were hiding away in the Unknown Regions, meaning no-one outside a few imperial sympathisers knew they were out there until a few years prior to Ep VII; and 2. Even after she found out about the FO, the New Republic refused to believe her, forcing her to create the Resistance so that at least something was being done to stop them.
Only real confusing aspects about the rise of skywalker are...
1. How the heck is the Palpatine back? I'm 99% certain he is deader than bantha crap! Unless he's a ghost.
2. How could there possibly be anything left of the 2nd death star? That thing was blown into space dust!
I guess Disney just said eh it makes no sense but whatever. People love member berries!
Member tie fighters? Member the millenium falcon? Member the emperor? I member!
If nothing else does nostalgia will fill those seats! Regardless if it makes no fricken sense what so ever.
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" Optimus Prime
@Dezzy - TLJ probably got points with critics for being 'different', 'socially relevant' and having 'poignant themes', things this film probably doesn't have (I wouldn't be surprised if the writers/director were too busy trying to ensure the plot points were sorted out to bother with character work and themes this film should have). Having read some of the summaries, 'uninteresting' seems to be the main criticism leveled against it so far, so take that as you will.
Yeah you're probably right. The weird social messaging in that movie, like "heroism is bad" and "rich people are evil" probably does appeal to the kind of people who are professional movie reviewers. I'll never understand why anyone thinks you should just clumsily insert it into a fantasy blockbuster though, when it has no inherent connection to the plot whatsoever.
@Dezzy I liked Rise of the Skywalker more than The Last Jedi, way more. I'll have to let it sink in and watch it a couple more times, but it's not bad. Kinda the best they could do with how disastrous the plot was at the end of TLJ.
A lot of what I'm reading about is what I feared in that this movie was contained a lot of "apologizing" for The Last Jedi. Which is frustrating because I don't think TLJ has a lot to apologize for aside from poor pacing in the Canto Bight arc. This was my primary concern upon seeing the title and seeing that J.J. was back, and frankly I might not even go watch the movie anymore.
Honestly the entire sequel trilogy has caused me to lose a lot of respect for J.J. Abrams. He really does not do well with original material at all. And when he does try to introduce something new, he seems to subscribe to the "plant the mystery now, solve it later" philosophy that I find rarely works well. I think I would have preferred to at least have had Rian Johnson write the story so that we could get some level of continuity.
@Dezzy The Netherlands. Today is premiere day. I believe it's coming out later tonight officially, but some theaters already show it during the morning/afternoon as well. But yeah, I do believe that I'm one of the first people who got to watch it. There were only like 20 other people watching it, but tonight's going to be busy for sure.
@iKhan Not from what I've seen. It's more like this film tries to corporate both films into a conclusion that makes sense. If anything, this is the one that tries to tie the ends together.
The person who should be blamed is the one who decided not to have an agreed upon roadmap for the story ahead of time. That's an absurd way to do something like this. I dunno who made that call. Either Kathleen Kennedy or Bob Iger probably.
It's left it feeling more chaotic and dislocated than the original trilogy did, even though the original trilogy wasn't planned ahead of time (in that the first movie was just a standalone but they added 2 more afterwards due to its success)
If either of the directors/writers should be blamed, I'd be more willing to blame Rian Johnson, because he came second, and therefore had a story that was already formed, and yet decided to ignore or derail so many parts of it (snoke, knights of ren, rey's parents). From what I've read, JJ basically comes back to all 3 of those and tries to tie them back up, which suggests he probably disliked the fact that Rian just ditched them.
The person who should be blamed is the one who decided not to have an agreed upon roadmap for the story ahead of time. That's an absurd way to do something like this. I dunno who made that call. Either Kathleen Kennedy or Bob Iger probably.
It's left it feeling more chaotic and dislocated than the original trilogy did, even though the original trilogy wasn't planned ahead of time (in that the first movie was just a standalone but they added 2 more afterwards due to its success)
If either of the directors/writers should be blamed, I'd be more willing to blame Rian Johnson, because he came second, and therefore had a story that was already formed, and yet decided to ignore or derail so many parts of it (snoke, knights of ren, rey's parents). From what I've read, JJ basically comes back to all 3 of those and tries to tie them back up, which suggests he probably disliked the fact that Rian just ditched them.
I agree it's probably Kennedy's fault first.
However, I have a very strong suspicion that JJ did not have any specific plans for the things he introduced in TFA. Based on his past work he's not a very intentional storyteller. I don't think Johnson necessarily derailed the elements JJ introduced, but rather used them as a means of further developing the characters and themes he wanted to emphasize, rather than as "mystery boxes" like JJ likes to do.
So that goes back to the higher ups at Disney for not only not having a roadmap for the series, but also for hiring writer/directors who have drastically different styles. Changing the director on the fly is honestly a bit safer than changing the writer like they did. The first 6 movies all had pretty coherent overarching stories, despite the fact that only one of them has truly great direction (Empire).
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
Right from the outset, there's no subtlety to it at all, it feels clumsily and hurriedly written, and kind of a kitchen sink affair. 'Preposterous' came to mind more than once. I was prepared for boundaries to be pushed, but this film just says "F*** boundaries!" It's a good job this is the last one, cos you couldn't ever progress a compelling story that follows this.
This one isn't really a story. It's just a whole load of stuff. The structure feels all over the place.
Such a shame, because I was reminded again tonight just how good The Force Awakens is - I really like that film and it has a deserved spot in my 'forever Star Wars' list, or at least it did until I saw how badly they've dropped the ball since then, which kinda renders Force Awakens a bit pointless from the story perspective.
And while I have issues with The Last Jedi, I feel like it works better than this one.
Admittedly, the answer to the main question in this trilogy did not go the way I hoped and that disappointed me a lot, but I don't think it's just that disappointment that's influenced my judgement here. It's the sad realisation that they genuinely didn't put as much thought as this saga deserves into planning it.
I have to give them a bit of leeway, because Carrie Fisher's death obviously hindered things significantly, but the way they've rushed it all is pretty tragic to me, as invested in the saga as I was.
This ending should damage Disney's investment, and I can't help feeling 'serves them right' at the moment. I wanted this trilogy to succeed; Force Awakens got my hopes up that it would succeed, but...
It's not terrible, there's some fun stuff, some interesting stuff, but that's how I feel about The Phantom Menace too. I just never felt onboard with it from the first minute and nothing that came after that was enough to change my mind.
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