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Topic: Sony Pulls Spider-Man movies from MCU. UPDATE: 3rd MCU Spider-Man movie happening

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RainmakerF5

https://deadline.com/2019/08/kevin-feige-spider-man-franchise...

https://io9.gizmodo.com/spider-man-will-no-longer-be-shared-b...

Ouch. So basically Disney, wanted to raise the shares with Sony from 5% to 50%, but Sony rejected that idea and didn't give any other considerations of raising it a little, and still stay where it is. But Disney rejected that as well.

Only Tom Holland who's currently portraying Spider-Man, and Jon Watts directing Far From Home, and Homecoming, will be the only ones so far to return.

Its already to soon to immediately suggest a third reboot or assuming that Sony, still wants to go do the Sinister Six storyline.

I mean, their both greedy companies at the end of the day.

UPDATE: https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/08/21/director-jon-watts-no...

Wow.... I don't know what to say. Basically who knows if Watts is gonna return to direct the sequel to Far From Home. The last thing I wanna see is Avi Arad of all people direct the next one and fail much harder than Dark Phoenix.

UPDATE: https://variety.com/2019/film/news/sony-marvel-tom-holland-sp...

So basically their next movie is gonna come out in July 2021. To be honest, at least Sony didn't give to the supposed 50/50 kinda deal.

Edited on by RainmakerF5

RainmakerF5

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Toy_Link

Not a good news week for Disney, between (allegedly) making Lutz (of Micechat fame) a paid tool to push Eisner out, the parks and resorts (again allegedly) over reporting their numbers, and this, it's not looking good heading into their corporate friendly expo happening in a few days.

Can anything else go wrong for this juggernaut of a conglomerate this week?

Edited on by Toy_Link

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Heavyarms55

Stupid corporate BS getting in the way of entertainment. I am glad this happened after Endgame. Endgame for me was kind of a finale anyway.

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klingki

I'm just gonna hold out hope that all this news was only a power play by Sony, and in the end they can reach an agreement somewhere in the middle.

With how much they integrated Spidey into the MCU and the way they left the story hanging, I'm not really sure how both sides are going to be able to handle everything going forward.

klingki

ThanosReXXX

Sony once again proving how much they suck, and Marvel/Disney proving how stupid decisions from the past are still hunting them today. No outside company should ever have a stranglehold over your IP, let alone multiple companies.

I had some hopes that after the acquisition of Fox, and the deal with Sony, things might finally be smoothed out, so that new movies with ALL Marvel characters could be made without any issues whatsoever, but companies think that they, and their wishes are more important than those of the fans.

Perhaps fans need to raise their voices, and simply boycott any and all superhero-related stuff that Sony releases, in hopes that they'll finally get the message. Which is probably never going to happen, sadly enough...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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NEStalgia

@Galarian_Lassie Iger and his minions have always been remarkably evil. From Eisner to every last Disney getting ousted he's been leading a reign of terror on behalf of the banks in that company from day 1.

@ThanosReXXX I'm not even a comic fan, but it's predictably frustrating to see. I don't have any Sony blame on this though. This was the predictable outcome across the board with Disney's involvement in pretty much anything. Both companies are nasty, but this is Disney has been abusing their monopoly rather fiercely. Sony shouldn't be blamed for not playing along, and neither should the next string of companies that say "no" to whatever schemes Disney cooks up.

NEStalgia

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia Well.... yes and no. Marvel should have never spread their IP over various companies in the first place. They probably did it, because back then, they could have never imagined how popular the various franchises would become, otherwise they would certainly have held on to them, and it was also a way for them to spread the risk, seeing as the costs would mainly fall on the various companies using the IP, and not on Marvel themselves.

But now, you've got this weird situation were companies that do not really own the IP's, but DO own the rights to use them in movies, are digging their heels in the sand instead of giving the audience, and more importantly: the real fans, what they actually want, instead of forcing all the Marvel movie directors and screen writers to come up with weird alternate versions of the stories they know and love because <insert missing superhero or villain here> couldn't appear in a certain Marvel movie or series because of legal issues...

It's the world upside down, and in that regard I definitely DO blame Sony. It's despicable, corporate behavior which in the end will only have losers, because no "outside of the MCU" Marvel movie is ever going to have the huge success that canon movies will have, even if they do make some money. And besides that, they'll always be seen as "not REALLY a Marvel movie", but just some weird, alternate universe superhero movie, in which none of the other characters exist. And that's all very sad.

Sure, Disney isn't the most loving company either, but my view on this particular issue is that, regardless of the perhaps not all too friendly methods they're using, they're at least trying to bring all of Marvel back together again, and in that regard, it's simply a means to an end, to put back together something that should have always been like that in the first place. I'm super glad that they got the Fantastic Four and the X-Men back, and I'm hoping they can raise those franchises to the same high standards as they've done with the other Marvel movies.

So, with all of that in mind, Sony SHOULD play nice, and not just be the child that crosses its arms and plants their feet in the ground. The ONLY thing that counts, is giving the fans what they want, NOT giving any company, including Sony, what it wants. Besides, if you give the fans what they want, the money will come pouring in anyways, and in far bigger amounts than when they would keep any specific IP for itself.

Not to mention that they would then probably have to reboot Spider-Man yet again, because Tom Holland most certainly isn't going to play a non-MCU Spider-Man...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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jump

It's a non-story, they are currently negotiating and the biggest hurdle is actually if Fergie get's a credit on the non-MCU Sony Spidey films he's been advising on.

For all of the complaints about it's not Sony's IP, 1 Marvel sold the rights to keep them afloat during their multiple bankruptcies in the 90s, chances are Marvel would have been absorbed into Image or DC at the time if it wasn't for the money selling the rights brought in and 2, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created Spider-Man not Marvel, there's no purity of story telling having Marvel just tell those stories as it was letting others be hands on with the character that let him grow.

Just imo but I actually think Spider-Verse is better than the MCU's Spider-Man.

Edited on by jump

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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AnnoyingFrenzy

TBH.... I prefer the Sony spidey movies to the MCU spidey movies. Homecoming was good, but Spider-verse was amazing! Far From Home was just okay to me, Tom Holland isn't my favorite spidey actor, I'm not a fan of Happy or Aunt May and I am very burned out of the MCU, FFH is probably the last Marvel Movie I see for a long time. Spiderverse is what I want more of going into the future. Also, I liked Venom so make of that what you will.

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iKhan

Disney has become too big for its own good.

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Heavyarms55

@iKhan I completely agree, Disney has way too much power. But I also agree that Marvel should have the rights to Marvel characters. I can't honestly say I think everything about Disney is terrible, because I really liked the MCU from Iron Man to Endgame. But on the other hand, there is a lot Disney has done in recent years that I hate. Everything Star Wars since they bought it. Everything. I consider it all trash. All the live action remakes - none of them are any good in my opinion. The choice to pull all their content from Netflix and start, yet another, streaming service - stupid.

But Disney has so much cultural and financial power they can get away with almost anything and there are so many people who like them or are indifferent that naysayers like me will always be an ignored minority.

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J-Plap

Why does Sony own Spider-Man in the first place? When did this happen? (I know it was probably a long time ago lols)

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RR529

@J-Plap, in the 90's Marvel was essentially bankrupt, so they sold the film rights of many of their popular characters (Spider-Man, X-Men, etc.) to various film studios (Sony in Spider-Man's case), in the hopes that the films would be sucessful and they could make money on the merchandise sales (toys, clothes, and of course comics), which they still owned the rights to. Of course, I'm sure they made some money in the selling of the rights themselves as well.

If the movie(s) flopped the costs would be eaten by the various film studios, and not Marvel itself.

Edited on by RR529

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iKhan

Heavyarms55 wrote:

@iKhan I completely agree, Disney has way too much power. But I also agree that Marvel should have the rights to Marvel characters. I can't honestly say I think everything about Disney is terrible, because I really liked the MCU from Iron Man to Endgame. But on the other hand, there is a lot Disney has done in recent years that I hate. Everything Star Wars since they bought it. Everything. I consider it all trash. All the live action remakes - none of them are any good in my opinion. The choice to pull all their content from Netflix and start, yet another, streaming service - stupid.

But Disney has so much cultural and financial power they can get away with almost anything and there are so many people who like them or are indifferent that naysayers like me will always be an ignored minority.

Actually I was more saying this from the standpoint of Disney has inflated itself so large that the bubble feels like it's going to burst for them soon. They have acquired so many mega-franchises that even minute risk has turned into massive opportunity cost, leading to staleness.

The MCU bubble already burst for me to a degree. Spider-man used to be my favorite superhero, yet I still haven't gone to see Far From Home because the non crossover MCU movies have had a habit of feeling just so...bland after so many films. If I were to tell you the superhero movies of the past 5 years that I remember the most that really resonated with me, the only Marvel movies I'd list are Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.

The Pixar bubble is about to burst too. There have only been 3 movies since Toy Story 3 that I've genuinely loved (In case you are wondering they are Monsters University, Inside Out, and Coco). Every time I think about it, I just get more upset about the ending of Toy Story 4. I may stop watching them reliably if their quality doesn't improve

Star Wars is kind of weird. I liked the Last Jedi. I thought it was bold and tried to take the series in a new direction. I'm terrified for the next movie though. It SCREAMS pandering, and Abrams doesn't have a history of injecting originality into the Star Wars franchise. The biggest issue is that as much as people like to rag on the prequels, the prequels have a lot more interesting material to build off of than the original trilogy does, and aside from The Last Jedi acknowledging Qui-Gon Jinn's core philosophies, the new hasn't given it a passing glance.

And the sad thing is that most of these started with so much potential, and only took off BECAUSE of risk. But as time as passed, the original innovators have begun to leave and are being replaced by people who are more amicable to producing dull, assembly line products.

Part of me hopes a lot of these will burst a little, so that Disney is humbled back into some quality risk taking, or they just break up a bit as a conglomerate.

For all the wrong Warner Bros and Sony have been doing, you can't say they aren't taking risks. They are throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. And right now I think they are onto something with their DC movies lately.

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jump

Heavyarms55 wrote:

@ I can't honestly say I think everything about Disney is terrible, because I really liked the MCU from Iron Man to Endgame.

Actually Disney can't claim the credit for the MCU, Disney bought Marvel because of the MCU. The initial films were done with Paramount and Universal (Disney actually had to pay off Paramount so they could release Avengers instead of them) so the MCU would have been done regardless. It was the early success of those films plus seeing the potential of crossovers and a wealth characters to adapt is what made Disney buy Marvel.

The greatest contribution Disney made to the MCU beside their superior branding/marketing was getting Perlmutter (the head of Marvel) away from Fergie (the head producer of the MCU) as Perlmutter was infamously cheap with stories about him throwing tantrums at the premiere parties as they were giving out too much free food. Around Civil War there was a massive fallout over budgets which almost made Fergie quit so Disney stepped in and made the Studios part separate so Perlmutter couldn't interfere anymore. Allegedly Fergie wanted to do more ethnic and female superheroes early on but Perlmutter put his foot down as said no as he didn't believe they could sell tixs.

iKhan wrote:

If I were to tell you the superhero movies of the past 5 years that I remember the most that really resonated with me, the only Marvel movies I'd list are Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.

Here's the thing, not every film should resonate with you. They are intentionally mixing up the superhero genre with sub-genres so you have the slice of life teen drama of Spider-Man or the family comedy of Ant-Man etc with people naturally gravitating to one or the other based on personal preferences. Also they going after different demographics, it shouldn't shocking female audiences like Captain Marvel more than the males or black audiences like Black Panther more than the white ones.

It's the same thing with the comics themselves, Marvel and DC put out 50ish books a month each. Only the nutters read each and every one for the sake of it, most people stick to the characters they like the most and the big events.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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Bunkerneath

Provided Disney doesn't screw with Deadpool, I dont really care about any of this.

I found that after the first Avengers it all went a bit boring, except Thor Ragnarok and the Guardian Movies were kind of funny.

Edited on by Bunkerneath

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Shadowthrone

This sucks if Spider-Man is pulled from the MCU. Like someone else said, I'm glad only that this happened after Endgame.

Shadowthrone

Toy_Link

Joan Lee, Stan Lee’s daughter chimes in:
““Whether it’s Sony or someone else’s, the continued evolution of Stan’s characters and his legacy deserves multiple points of view,”...

“When my father died, no one from Marvel or Disney reached out to me,” Lee said. “From day one, they have commoditized my father’s work and never shown him or his legacy any respect or decency. In the end, no one could have treated my father worse than Marvel and Disney’s executives.”

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/22/stan-lees-daughter-sides-with...

Legal threats that have gone nowhere: 1

jump

Galarian_Lassie wrote:

Joan Lee, Stan Lee’s daughter chimes in:
““Whether it’s Sony or someone else’s, the continued evolution of Stan’s characters and his legacy deserves multiple points of view,”...

“When my father died, no one from Marvel or Disney reached out to me,” Lee said. “From day one, they have commoditized my father’s work and never shown him or his legacy any respect or decency. In the end, no one could have treated my father worse than Marvel and Disney’s executives.”

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/22/stan-lees-daughter-sides-with...

I agree with her sentiment about the evolution of the character but I'd take what she says with a pinch of salt, there were a lot of allegations about elder abuse towards her parents at one point.

It's funny about her complaints about Marvel and Disney not treating Stan as the creator right as a lot of comic writers made the same complaint about Stan when he was in charge of Marvel.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

3DS Friend Code: 1762-3772-0251

iKhan

jump wrote:

iKhan wrote:

If I were to tell you the superhero movies of the past 5 years that I remember the most that really resonated with me, the only Marvel movies I'd list are Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.

Here's the thing, not every film should resonate with you. They are intentionally mixing up the superhero genre with sub-genres so you have the slice of life teen drama of Spider-Man or the family comedy of Ant-Man etc with people naturally gravitating to one or the other based on personal preferences. Also they going after different demographics, it shouldn't shocking female audiences like Captain Marvel more than the males or black audiences like Black Panther more than the white ones.

It's the same thing with the comics themselves, Marvel and DC put out 50ish books a month each. Only the nutters read each and every one for the sake of it, most people stick to the characters they like the most and the big events.

@jump

I hear this argument a lot and it kind of drives me crazy. We can sit around and pretend all the Marvel movies feel super distinct and are genuinely parts of different genres, but they just aren't. They do have some slight alterations in style and story, but for the most part they follow a pretty typical formula for their stories and cinematic style. This is likely in part due to they relying on second units so heavily. Stylistically, Black Panther and Guardians stand out decently (though I'm not as crazy for Guardians as most people are), but other movies like Doctor Strange and Ant-Man feel extremely by-the-book.

This really is the main reason I don't find the MCU films particularly memorable, they aren't really a completely distinct cinematic experience. I can like the story, or the characters, but I don't feel completely immersed

We have superhero movies that have genuinely distinct feel to them. The best example of that is probably Logan, but you can also see it in Spider-verse, as well as the older Superhero movies like the Nolan or Raimi films. One of the reasons I'm actually super excited for DC's continued film lineup is because Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam all feel like completely different film experiences.

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