Topic: Everything Marvel (Movies, Games, Comics, ect...)

@Ryu_Niiyama I was surprised be people's reactions to The Illuminati in Doctor Strange 2, people won't shut up about when FF or X-Men are coming to the MCU and they get shown off only for a meh reaction, MADNESS. I reckon if they had swapped out someone for either Wesley Snipes' Blade or Lou Ferrigno's Hulk there would have been more of a frenzy.

The X-Men movies were a mixed bag, they did a lot of things rights and just as many things wrong plus the convoluted canon didn't help although it wouldn't be X-Men if the canon wasn't a mess, I can't keep track of all the Cyclops-Jean Grey kids/clones/time displaced versions of them all but without those flicks their wouldn't be a MCU. If they did bother to actually keep track of the canon or not reduce so many of the characters to glorified cameos they could have built their own MCU before the MCU.

However Fox did create the Legion show which is easily the best superhero show I've seen so it was worth it. Just visually striking in more than flashy action sequences way, thought provoking on multiple levels, bold and innovative in equal measure, it throws out ideas/concepts at a rate that other shows/movies could (and have) built their entire premise on something that was a disposable thought in Legion, it's willing to have emotions be complex and messy and it's got some amazing performances from the cast. The most maddening thing is people talk about how dumb down the MCU or other comic book thingys are (yet keep still watching them) but they wont touch Legion as it's too thinky.

@jump I don’t pay attention to nerds anymore (especially since a loud part of it is incel culture). If it isn’t exactly what they want they have a meltdown or it is beneath them. Never saw legion. It was on my list but I was super busy at the time and then forgot about it. Perhaps I will try again.

X-Men came out when I was a teenager and it is the only movie I walked out on. I was just devastated by Halle Berry’s performance as Storm. I acknowledge that those movies crawled so the MCU could run but between the whole “we can’t say mutants” thing, the eventual hyper focus on Wolverine, and just my general ambivalence towards the movie franchise I am fine letting them be a footnote while I wait for a good X-Men movie. At least the 90’s cartoon has gotten a comic revival of sorts.

@Ryu_Niiyama Yeah, nerdom isn't fun at times. I use to be on CBR and it's so miserable I stopped going there, however every now and then I will read a comic which got me excited or thinking so I log back on there to see what the talk is only to find more weird moaning and instantly remember why I stopped going there. This site isn't bad but every now and then even some of the friendly regular posters will share some, ahem, worrying views.

Yeah, some of it's down to Bryan Singer wanting to make it a gay rights metaphor rather than bigotry in general which is why he wanted Halle Berry to tone down the African accent when she was allowed to have a scene. I really wanted the mohawk Storm in it which we got later but by that time those films were running on fumes. Plus they make straight up wacky choices like killing Darwin the non-killable mutant. Emma Frost was a big disappoint for me, I love how much of beyatch she is and her relationship with Cyclops is much more interesting to me than the Jean stuff but they had her be a mere henchwoman and got whatshername from Mad Men who was so boring. The Deadpool movies have done a better job of bring the X-Men to life as I love their takes on Colossus, Cable, Domino and Juggernaut.

@jump a lot of that was Ms. Berry’s acting. She hadn’t done that type of role or character type before and while she improved I don’t think she had a handle on who Storm was as a character originally and it shows. The Accent faded in and out. That was bad acting and directing. Considering the x-men comics were influenced in the 80 and early 90’s by the aids pandemic, I’m fine with most of the metaphors used. And gay rights makes a more realistic metaphor as like gays all mutants are different races, sexes, creeds and backgrounds except being mutants. And of course the x-men individually face varying forms of discrimination depending on their general appearance (when others don’t know they are mutants). It’s one of the things that makes x-men so relatable for me. (And mildly depressing because at this rate real life Krakoa seems to be the only way).

I saw someone once compare mutants to Jews, it made more since then comparing them to gays.

@Kermit1 I not overly keen on saying that discrimination is better than that discrimination myself but there's different experiences to what Jewish people went and LGBTQ do which is captured in X-Men really well. Like you're born into a Jewish family whilst being gay you're not born into a gay family so there's key moments like becoming a teenager and your powers activating (abit like becoming a teenager and starting to realise you're gay) and having to come out to your parents with the real possibility they will reject which doesn't have happen with race.

Also gay people (as well as gypsies, socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses etc) were prisoners of the German camps too, Jews were just the main target for the Nazis rather than sole target. A rather upsetting fact was the guy who invented the first computer and was also a WW2 hero (literally the allies wouldn't have won it without him) was found out to be gay in the 50s, his punishment as ordered by court for the crime of being gay was to be castrated.

You can also make the (very common) argument that Professor X and Magneto are basically Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X who are neither Jewish or LGBTQ.

@Ryu_Niiyama I have always liked the beauty that X-Men taps in discrimination in general sense rather than simply a gay metaphor so even fat people or just abit weird people can tap into the feelings of being an outsider from X-Men. It certainly helped that the legendary Giant Sized X-Men revived the comic by featuring an ethnically diverse team as well as just weird/different looking characters like Nightcrawler as opposed to when it originally launched and flopped with a team of 5 white guys and a girl.

LOL Kevin Bacon is now a superhero!!! I need this in my life now!!!

@Kermit1 we homosexuals are a small percentage of the population, not all of us are “obvious” (seriously I am ready to tattoo female Homosexual on my forehead to get men to leave me alone), many of us have to hide, we have been murdered, disowned and come from all backgrounds, races, religions and classes. Depending on your stance it is a genetic predisposition (which I agree with).

That’s literally Mutant in a nutshell. I just can’t fly.

@jump I think the gay metaphor still works because homosexuals come from all backgrounds. Unless you are saying that if someone was relatable in every way to you except their sexuality that negates everything else then I would say that has more to do with you than the generally applied metaphor. Obviously X-men draws from various swaths of discrimination as there is plenty of human intolerance to go around for inspiration but having it generically use homosexuals as a frame of reference doesn’t invalidate individual characters or their relatability.

Edit: now that religion is being brought in instead of simply discussing metaphors I’m going to head out. This is going to a totally different direction than it needs to. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything just pointing out reasons a metaphor is likely used. As it is common knowledge that certain influences/metaphors are used in the xmen comics and media franchise.

Ok, that’s my cue to leave it alone. Y’all have a good one.

@Kermit1 if you wish to end a discussion a simple agree to disagree works wonders without the religion preamble.

@Ryu_Niiyama Maybe I worded it poorly but I'm not saying because X-Men isn't a gay allegory so I can't relate to it now or that it isn't a gay metaphor, I'm saying in additional to that it covers other areas too so it's more universal even if it's as mild as a kid being bullied in school for being different as it taps into the feeling of being an outsider.

It does lifts things like The Legacy Virus = aids which reflects the gay metaphor but also 80s Genosha is South African apartheid, God Loves, Man Kills is far right news frenzy, Magneto in the holocaust is the holocaust etc so more so than in any other stories about representation is really important if it's cold war (or now war) Russians like Colossus, black characters like Storm or just weird like Glob to tap the feeling of being an outsider and experiencing hate and civil rights injustices.

I know you mean well @Kermit1 but religion is a hot button topic and you've brought it up in a way that isn't really relevant to the conversation. You could have said I was taught to be a good neighbour rather than I'm a Christian so I'm taught to be a good neighbour. Even then the reply was regarding you comment on how you agreed with other people that X-Men is more like the persecution of Jewish people rather than the LGBTQ community so it's kinda going off track but I do realise you're trying to say you're consciousness and not intolerant of other folk as you thought you were being insensitive.

Also in an obvious attempt to change the mood of the thread...there is a mutant with the power to change into ice cream. I present Eye Scream!

@jump yeah I am aware of those influences but I think it’s best to move on. Discussion has been pretty much halted. I only pop in here on occasion (would rather read comics than talk about them) so I will head back to the switch thread. Good talk.

I ain't good with words not about video games, peace out.

@Eagly I appreciate the conversation but I am out. Not looking to spark any more proselytizing. It takes things off topic instantly. You have a great day though!

@Eagly not you, just trying to keep things light. My mother is binge watching the last 5 or 6 MCU movies so that should be interesting. It’s always fun to get the viewpoints of older fans.

@Eagly Meh, Colossus has got cute buns but they are not cute enough to convert me.

@Eagly my mom can get on a level of superhero rants that I find impressive considering she grew up in an era that it was not considered an acceptable hobby for women and girls and the lack of relatable characters (not trying to start anything) but it is a joy to see. Our favorite superman show is Lois and Clark (as we both dislike the 70s movies) and I like the older black and white shows. Popular culture can be a pit but it is something special when it builds bridges.

Edit: whoops double post.

@jump that’s not what “conversion therapy” means. Can’t tell if you are kidding or not. Yeah I know I am overly staid.

@Ryu_Niiyama Yeah I know what conversion therapy is and yeah I was kidding.

@jump apologies. I’m not used to jokes about socially acceptable torture. I’m also fairly literal minded. I know a few women that escaped that mess and the damage is quite permanent and their stories horrific. And a reminder that family can love their religion far more than they love you.

Ok 90’s fans. Anybody reading any of the 90s xmen revivals? Or the new Dr Strange since he’s been replaced?

@Ryu_Niiyama no worries. I need to remember to use emojis more when I’m bantering.

Who’s the Sorcerer Supreme at the moment, Clea? I did like how they just decided Isaac Newton would be a Sorcerer Supreme with the rather brilliant/bonkers idea he hates maths and The Demon Rider seems cool and I need to pull those issues.

@jump yep it’s Clea. I’ve never been super into Strange or Fate so I’m a bit behind on issues but I’m going to try to sub the entire run. Since Clea is in the MCU now they will likely incorporate some of the stories do I wanna be prepared.