Topic: Coronavirus outbreak

@Zeldafan79 Well just hope that wherever you live they don't do what my state just did, make it mandatory that you where a mask now whenever you go out in public.

i had nothing to add but because this immediately ended up on my twitter feed...

@NEStalgia The virus never went away. End of that discussion. People not talking about it doesn't mean it's not there anymore.

The only conflicting data I've seen is simply a result of regional variance and in some cases, false positives caused by contaminated testing kits. In some areas of the world the numbers have gotten much better, and in others it is very much spiking.

The reason it's not in the headlines anymore is because people have grown used to it. People are numb to it and so it doesn't get the clicks and ad revenue other issues do. Another 800 people died in the US yesterday from the virus? "What else is new?"

This is generally my thought as well. I still wear them in stores or in areas where it's 1. hard to social distance and/or 2. there are a ton of people around.

I wear them inside in public areas. I don't often bother with them outside unless I'm in a crowded area, which seldom happens for me anyway. I'm not one for crowds and live in a less populated area, so people are somewhat easy to avoid. I don't see the point of wearing a mask in an outdoor trail area with few people where it's easy to keep your distance, for example.

Some would probably say I should be wearing them at work, and I admittedly do not. However, we're split off from the main work population anyway (as we're a separate division in our own building, though still under the same company), there aren't very many of us, and we're spread far enough apart with other protocols that I highly doubt any of us will catch anything. There is a mandatory stay-at-home policy if you feel ill.

Regulations highly differ depending on where you're at in the company and how much you interact with the public. I feel sorry for those who are visiting customers a lot. Our support is phone-only right now (the company isn't allowing traveling outside of mandatory visits), and we devs are usually shut up behind our monitors and deaf to the world via headphones anyway. Still washing hands frequently (though I did that before the pandemic) and sanitizing surfaces more often.

I also notice that, not only is most English media I come across not talking about the pandemic anymore, but there's been little to no mention of the rapidly rising numbers in Brazil, India and Russia. Brazil looks like it will hit 1 million cases by tomorrow.

I am curious if there are any multi-lingual folks around who've seen reports about it in their respective languages. I've heard mention of it in Japan but not much else. Japanese news tends to be nothing but Japan, America and western Europe.

@Tyranexx That's it exactly. But there's no making rational arguments with people who believe insane conspiracy theories. When people think that COVID-19 is somehow a "Leftist Democratic hoax to hurt President Trump" and that somehow, there is a group with enough power to fake a global pandemic that literally every country on Earth is dealing with... You can't reason with these people.

I've tried to point out that, if a group existed and had so much power, they'd already rule the world - but they just brush that off without even attempting to deal with it and continue spouting their nonsense. Or say they aren't wearing a mask to "own the libs" or whatever.

For US east coasters, I read that Hatteras Island, NC has their highest summer rental numbers since 2005 - highest number of tourists. They think people are picking Hatteras for the low population density and more isolated beaches, which it is.

@Heavyarms55 Yeah, I'm aware of Brazil, I think, because I watch NHK World. The amount of helpful covid info they provide puts US networks to shame. I'd heard about Russia, but not much in the past two weeks. My friend in Mexico City has also mentioned covid is on the rise, but she didn't say much else, other than the poor can't afford to self quarantine at home.

@WoomyNNYes To a degree I do kind of understand about Russia. American media in particular uses Russia as the penultimate bogyman and the source of all evil (even if Trump lately has instead used China in that scapegoating role) and so they wouldn't want to do anything to humanize Russians.

But the lack of news about Brazil and India surprises me. The tone of America media has shifted quite a bit since I was younger, but when I was in high school and university those two were generally portrayed in a pretty positive light and were talked about.

Mexico doesn't surprise me in the Trump era. That's another bogyman/scapegoat for politicians to use and the mainstream media is too cowardly to question that narrative. When Mexico gets slammed with a major hurricane, the headline story on US media would read "Major hurricane headed for Texas" and then in paragraph 3 it would mention "has already caused massive damage in Mexico" like an afterthought.

Just the fact that there are people still travelling as simple tourism right now baffles me. Between the economic, viral and political problems wracking the world right now I can't remember another time in my life where things have felt so uncertain, unstable and frightening. The recent violence between China and India sure doesn't help.

@Heavyarms55 I fully ignore the "pandemic is a hoax" stories floating around; I intentionally haven't seen many. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to fake something like this in every single country affected. Thank you, tinfoil hat theorists, for stirring up some interesting movie plot fodder, but I think I'll stick with the many, MANY medical experts that are all in agreement that this thing is real.

The problem with the internet, for all the good it can sometimes provide, is that like-minded echo chambers for some schools of thought are all too easy to come by. Add to the fact that many people react emotionally or intentionally seek out comfirmations based on said emotions (not facts) versus trying to seek truth and knowledge, and it's a recipe for disaster. In terms of politics in the US, I've noticed this (Not speaking on the subject at hand here per se, but in general) on both sides of the aisle.

The sad thing is, as in most nasty situations lately, people are being duped by trolls and/or those who are trafficking for clicks and their fifteen minutes of fame. Not helped by the fact that some forms of media are biased one way or the other as well as certain prominent figures feeding into the belief that said news is an outright lie.

@Tyranexx The thing is - I don't think the tin foil hat folks are as small of a minority anymore as we probably wish they were. There are significant segments of the population who believe that scientists, professors, doctors - the "educated elite" or whatever term they want to use, are all in cahoots with each other and certain political factions. The anti-science people (my term for them) are a significant faction of the population at this point. They actively reject science, data, and objective facts. I've seen them shown video proof of something and they still just deny it as "fake news" or whatever.

Well i knew i'd get somebody's knickers in a twist with my opinion on the whole thing but i still think this whole deal with masks and people being ran out of stores because they aren't wearing one is rediculous. Yeah maybe they do prevent the spread but i can do that without a mask. I simply keep my face out of other peoples faces and if i feel a sneeze coming on I'll do what i was taught as a child. Cover your damn mouth!

This panic that the media goes to great lengths to spead is far worse than the virus itself. People are losing jobs and business are losing millions of dollars over all the fear. I live in Indiana and so far no public places are making mask wearing mandatory. They're just suggesting it.

If it makes you feel better wearing them knock yourselves out but i'm not buying into all the hype.

Japan had some of the earliest cases but it never got out of control here. Even in Tokyo, with some of the most congested urban environments in the world. But Japan's total confirmed cases is less than the total confirmed cases in the US, yesterday. Japan is lucky in that they have a cultural acceptance of masks and a natural sense of obligation to the common good of society. If something is seen as good for society, people will trend towards doing it, even if it's personally annoying.

And it might be unpopular to say this, but America does not have either of those two things. Especially the latter. In American culture, personal benefit outweighs societal concerns. I can say that because I have lived in both cultures for significant amounts of time.

It's like that guy in the Tweet above said. If we're wrong, wearing a mask is a mild inconvenience. But if we're right, lives could be saved.

@Zeldafan79

As you can tell by the vehemency (or open contempt) by your detractors on the topic, masks have long ago been elevated to the plane of moral supremacy. What are the stakes here anyway? I mean basically it's a question of whether you want to wear a piece of cloth on your face for the rest of time, or not. There is no timeline for research of this type; we know that market speculators could usher in compromises to the standards. So while expediency is surely a focus, that haste could result in an aura of suspicion over the drive for timely procurement. (With due credit to the federal government they are using a profit driven model to spur research, which is the only reasonable paradigm to drive innovation.)

With some few exceptions the voices which are elevated on the topic are set upon presenting an extremely narrow viewpoint on what the dangers are. Some how in vogue now is the idea of a salvation by the pharmaceuticals industry, for all its hypocrisy, which lends the familiar stamp of big brother. One thing I find common in a mixed group: is that for people who are subject to more regressive standards by their local governments, there is a proportional trend to be more proactive in telling others what to do, say, and feel. The mind is a shallow pond, and it doesn't take a very far leap into that psyche to discover the inward turmoil over repressed feelings. We could all get along better if people would stop pretending this is about saving lives, and reveal the true origins spurred by that most primal mandate: fear.

EDIT

This kind of accusatory flaming seems reprehensible, with its attempt to create cause and motive out of thin air. At least it's the most succinct effort to explain the other grating responses so points for narrowing that down.

Actually for me this makes the case as to why masks are not the end all when it comes to saving lives. Namely they are not ubiquitous nor ever can they truly be made to be that way. The only sane conclusion for someone who is of particular risk (and these factors are very well established by the way) would be to self isolate. While the buzzword that is Covid-19 has surely galvanized people to a sudden awareness about the ease of spreading these viruses, folks with compromised immune systems have made these adjustments long ago.

I know this is very political but I think people dying is bad, there I said it!

@OptometristLime Thanks for balancing out this thread, it sure took a wild turn with the shaming. If something needs to be shamed, it's the government of China with their lack of openness when releasing this behemoth.

@Zeldafan79 I don't think you are reading what people are telling you. Sneezing isn't even a common trait of this disease, and by the time you start coughing from it you've already probably infected people. You may not get any symptoms at all but will transmit the disease to people who may get severe symptoms.

The mask does not protect the wearer and nobody has claimed it does. It protects everyone else form the incompetent, arrogant, uninformed fool that still is blissfully ignorant despite being handed an explanation on a silver platter about asymptomatic spread, the nature of respiratory droplets in the air who puts himself at risk and the enters the space of other people. If you want to get the disease, that's great. Meat packing plants are hiring. ER's are hiring. Do the world some good and go sign up to work some shifts. You'll get high odds of getting the disease and still be patted on the back for your selfless fearlessness. But when you leave put the mask on, or lock yourself away where nobody else will be near you.

When we're dealing with self-important willful ignorance, how can any of this end well?

@OptometristLime Aside from the rest of your pomposity, I will agree with you about masks not at all being an end all. But something is better than nothing and it's a proven asset. And those that refuse to extend even common decency of experiencing discomfort for the common good, when all data tells us its beneficial, then your fellow citizens are naught by feral animals with the mentality of a poorly parented child.

@WoomyNNYes @NEStalgia Guys you just gotta let him be. Is he being stupid, yes I think he is but it's his choice untill the government makes it mandatory there's nothing you can say or do to change his mind. No matter how many videos you post he's made up his mind. You might as well drop it.

Yeah I'd rather see you guys move on, before the debate gets ugly and the thread gets closed

@Tasuki the problem isn't that he's risking himself, it has no bearing on himself. If he wants to bike in the freeway without a helmet that's on him. In fact I'd encourage it at this point for the greater good. It's that he's risking others, and boasting about it while inciting others to promote the same disregard for the well-being of others and lack of civil decency. You may be right, but the counterpoint must be made that that is not ok.

If anything it reinforces my earlier comments that freedom as a concept only works if a people collectively have a mentality of serving others over their own desires as japan does on average. A society that promotes self servicing use of such freedom isn't compatible with the concept and rulership becomes necessary. No society can function in this divided self serving mode without collapse.

@NEStalgia No counter points do not need to be made. He made.his choice you let him live with it that's it.

Besides @Eel said to drop it so drop it we shall.

@Tasuki Well, we certainly can strongly agree that everyone is entitled to make their own choices without having choices forced upon them by someone else.

@heavyarms55 Getting back to the post i hadn't replied to earlier, I'm not so sure it's that people got "used" to it. People didn't get "used to" the depression. And they didn't get "used to" The War in Europe 70+ years ago.

No, this is something else. And something largely western. I don't think a lot of people here EVER believed there was a threat. They played along with restrictions when it was winter and there was no choice. But a lot of people never thought it was "real" to begin with, no so when restrictions became an actual inconvenience to their annual plans in spring and summer and they saw there was no enforcement they stopped playing along. And the people that did believe it's a threat at one time want to believe it's over.... And the media helps sell them that. And the media had two directions. One, no interest meant no money. And two, for the elite, and the unemployed both, the economy was more important, so pointing the public away from the disease as though it's gone servs to set the tone that everything is normal, exactly like you want it to be, do you can go out and spend, like we want you to.

Everyone wanted to wish it away, and pretending it's gone is best for the economy. Everyone wins. Until we become Brazil. Again. It's the quarterly earnings mentality. Short term gain, screw the long term.