Topic: Pokémon Sun & Moon - Discussion & Speculation

@DefHalan: I didn't like BW, but I found the sequels to be much more enjoyable. I'd say they're my favorite DS Pokemon games.

If you happen to find them cheap or have nothing else to play, they're worth a try.

100% agree. I never finished White, I tried to play it twice and after the grinding being ridiculously boring and the story never grabbing me, I just gave up and I never bought White 2 after that. The story felt partially like they had done this already in DP but spruced it up a bit, they had a lot of yaking I didn't care about that dragged on and on and it kind of made some things complicated in an unfun way. Also I was really tired of the DS by the time it came around, but even now I'm still mostly uninterested. Then they "fixed" the first problem by making X&Y absolutely too easy in almost every way.

@Dankykong: I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't like Black and White. I actually enjoyed the Post-Game quite a bit, because the story got out of the way, and there were actual mazes and puzzles to challenge me.

The irony of this post that nearly all older Pokemon veteran fans who I spoke to.... really love Pokemon Black and White for being more hard and story focused.

Look at Pokemon X and Y's "story". Must I say more? A poor focus on story is bad.

I found the story the main things in BW that made it stand out (in a good way). I wasn't a huge fan of the music, or many of the Pokemon designs, or the spongey battle animations, or... a lot of the towns, but I did like the story (and also the fact that all the Pokemon were new, even if I didn't like them)! BW2 arguably polished some things (I think it was generally a bit tighter), but was obviously very similar to BW, and the story... well, it involved a splinter group of Team Plasma, and they wanted to get Kyurem, but apart from that I can't actually remember it.

I don't know, less focused story worked for Red/Blue

I don't think there's really a right or a wrong style of narrative when it comes to story. I was impressed by BW, because it managed to introduce something new and question a lot of ideas that the series had taken for granted. That was interesting, and the themes generally felt relevant and well applied throughout the story.

On the other hand, I felt like XY tried to do a similar thing (introduce a grey area of morality) but it fell a bit flat in the process.

So long as the story doesn't feel like a chore, I don't think there's really a correct structure or theme for it. Outside the Elite Four, it's really the only motive the player has, and therefore becomes one of the main things that differentiates the games from one another. For that reason, I think there's some pressure on it to at least be relatively fresh and imaginative; to stop each subsequent game from becoming a more forgettable version of the last. In this respect, BW carved out a place for itself quite well.

@Maxz: Black and White focused a lot more on the story than X and Y did. I think X and Y suffered development constraints due to being the first true 3D Pokemon games made by gamefreak. There was a pretty big learning curve, and that kept them from being able to release the title in a timely manner while also focusing on story and post game aspects. The gameplay was extremely solid for a Pokemon game though. They also brought back the exp. all in a way, that was a nice little nod back to R/B/Y.

I think ORAS brought back Black and White's focus on a central story theme and its effects on its environments, since Gamefreak didn't have to deal with the learning curve X and Y brought, and it shows in the quality and overal atmosphere the games bring. The story feels a lot more dire and immersive than it did back in Ruby and Sapphire, and the post game story also had some pretty awesome deep moments.

I think my favorite part of Black and White/ORAS is that they introduce questions. They ask you things that really make you think. Whether it be your ideals, right wrong and grey, or just your own perception of the world, those games like to make you reflect and question your own stance.

@BlatantlyHeroic: I'm sure you're right.

Sadly, I never ended up playing ORAS, as I felt a bit jaded by XY, with it being the first game in the series I didn't complete (having played every other game so far). I'm sort of thinking it might be a good idea to pick it up, as nearly everyone who's played it says it sorted out a lot of things that XY got wrong.

B/W focus on story gave it a fresh air, at least for me, it was nice seeing that the Gym Leaders actually DID something instead of just lying around waiting for you to beat them. The idea that you're not the only one that is fighting the bad guys was great.
Now, Team Flare on XY was a disaster. You hear them like three times and boom, they're gone.

See, I am playing through Pokemon Y now, already played through X, and there is a lot of stuff I forgot. Gym Leaders participating in the world. Just how early some characters are introduced. When they start hinting at what the Big Bad is doing. I am enjoying the refresher.

@DefHalan: There was only one Gym leader that really participated in the world at all. The others were just filler and didn't seem to have any type of actual personality. I've felt more character from one and done characters in every previous Pokemon game than I have the Kalos gym leaders. I will say that the Kalos Elite 4 do a wonderful job of establishing who they are and what they believe in with their little intro dialogue, so that's something. The Champion on the other hand was such a pushover and... ugh. She was certainly no Cynthia.

Also, the big bad is barely there in the first Pokemon games, but they do a better job of still making them feel like they're doing something atrocious and actual threats. Team Flare was just a laugh, and as individual people they never seemed to actually know what their goal was. It's also because of them that we couldn't properly find the legendary Pokemon in some ancient cave and ACTUALLY LEARN ABOUT THEM LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE. If Diamond and Pearl did anything right, it was making the legendary Pokemon feel connected with the culture and the region itself.

@BlatantlyHeroic: We will see. But has someone that really enjoys hunting Pokemon, the inclusion of a deep story could negatively affect my game. I know with B/W it was a combo of the long story bits and the crazy difficulty in trying to train that slowed things down so hard for me.

@DefHalan: I always catch every Pokemon, and I still love a deep focus on story. No normal person is ever stopped from hunting Pokemon because of a good story, and catching 'em all can always be done in the post game. If you don't want the games to progress towards having more immersive and detailed stories, why not just play Red and Blue over and over again?

I really didn't mind the way they handled the big bad in Y. In a way it really let me experience the feeling of freedom and adventure without feeling pushed through the game to the end.

To me it really kinda felt like I could adventure and explore and that brought me to the finale battle with them vs being hounded all the time.

By no means should every game be that way but it was refeshing.

@BlatantlyHeroic: Because I want to have more/different adventures. I just don't want the story to slow the game down like it did for me in B/W. It would be like me saying, if you want deep and immersive story, why not play Dragon Quest. Just because you don't like a certain aspect of a certain game, doesn't mean you won't like the series or even the certain game for other reasons. I want to be free to do what I want in a Pokemon game and if the story interrupts me too much from how I want to play, then it will leave a bad taste in my mouth. I put over 50 hours into B/W and didn't complete the Pokemon League because everything bogged down too much. Pokemon X I have put over 200 hours into and I bought Pokemon Y so I wouldn't have to delete my Pokemon X save file and could experience the game all over again. It is not one way or the other. There is a middle ground where you can get a deeper story and I can have the freedom to explore, hunt, and train how I want. Honestly ORAS is probably the best example of that lol.

X and Y had no adventure. Everything was extremely linear and there weren't any secret paths leading to strange structures or rare powerful Pokemon. There was literally no adventure to be had besides following a pre-defined path that every other player that played the games also followed. There wasn't any uniqueness to the adventure, no hidden things to uncover during the adventure. Sure the post game had Zygarde, Mewtwo, and a legendary bird, but there wasn't much exploring to be done there either.

I see what your saying but at the same time I was not bound to some convaluted story. In a way I got to have my own adventure. It just happen to involve stopping some bad guys. It felt a little more organic in a way.

If I stop a mugging, it's not that I was out looking for bad guys, I was walking the dog or going to the store.

But then agian I was the kid that would turn the contrast down on my Gameboy pocket to give pokemon Red day and night cycles lol.

In your opinion. Finding new Pokemon, exploring new locations, talking to different people becomes an adventure. I don't need side paths or story elements to give a sense of adventure. I need the openness to do what I want. I was able to spend over an hour finding a Pokemon with the correct color flower. I was able to spend 5 hours grinding in Victory Road. I was able to stumble upon new and interesting Pokemon. I was able to be surprised by finding some old favorites. The story doesn't make the adventure. The adventure makes a story.

@DefHalan: It took you that long to do all that? If that's the case it's your own lack of skill that makes X and Y feel like it has content for you. I prefer to catch generation specific Pokemon each time I play a Pokemon game, but X and Y didn't have enought variety.