The conversations around Metroid Dread have been mostly positive since its launch, but a recent topic that has caused a good deal of debate and criticism of developer MercurySteam has related to the game's credits. Multiple contributors to the game have raised the fact that they're not credited, and the developer has responded to clarify its internal policy. Its statement is below.
The policy of the studio requires that anyone must work on the project [for] at least 25% of the total development of the game to appear in the final credits... sometimes exceptions are made when making exceptional contributions.
There are issues with this policy, so let's briefly outline a couple of perspectives. Two contributors to state their case online have put their periods at the company at 8 and 11 months, with the latter therefore presumably missing out based on the project being around four years or more in development.
The issue with a threshold such as "25% of the total development" is how vague and open to abuse that is - when does a development project start? Is it when MercurySteam first discussed Dread with Nintendo, or perhaps when they took initiative to produce a pitch deck? Or perhaps it's dated when the nitty gritty begins of conceptualising and planning the game. The point is, all are arguably 'start points', and can greatly impact the definition of its development period.
The other issue is that you could work 11 months on a project when it's at full speed, in its most productive phase, contributing a great deal of content to the broader game, and by this metric not be credited. It is also very common practice in game development to employ new hires and contractors on fixed and short term contracts. Temporary staff are a factor in all areas of working life, of course, but in the production of major games a studio size can dramatically swell for a relatively short period to push it forward, and then those contracts lapse and many workers are then looking for the next opportunity. We don't know if that was the case here, but it is common.
As highlighted in Eurogamer's article on this topic this has happened across various companies, so it'd be inaccurate to portray MercurySteam as a lone offender in this regard; in many ways the company is following its own form of the industry norms. It's not just in the retail / triple-A space either; myself and Kate Gray in the NL team have worked in the Indie game development and publishing scene in the past and discussed the issue of credit earlier in the year. Even in very small teams debates around these acknowledgments happen, and those that perform multiple roles or contribute but then move on are sometimes ignored or put under the generic 'Special Thanks' section. Discussion around the title of a credit can be as difficult as having a name included in the first place.
Why does this matter? Well, for one thing, not being credited properly is arguably harmful to someone's career. For anyone working in the industry each job, each contract, is contributing to a portfolio that helps to advance that career. It seems unfair that someone can say they worked on a game for nearly a year, only for potential employers to then look in the credits and not see their name. To find an equivalence in the website space, it'd be like if my articles from my first stint at Nintendo Life had their bylines removed when I moved into publishing for 3 years. That would be unfair (and didn't happen, of course!).
The issue is how normal it has become for game publishers and developers of all sizes to disregard or downplay contributions to their games. This does happen in other creative industries (film, music, books, the same debates appear in those areas too), but is arguably worse in gaming because it is still a young and in some ways immature industry. There are unions and representative bodies trying to defend creators of all kinds in other industries, but in gaming we're still in the stage of mainly relying on organisations that deliver advocacy and awareness, but little solid influence. There's no real oversight or universal standards for how contributor credits work, so every company effectively wings it. The problem with that is that not all leadership in the industry is inclined to have fair policies.
What's the solution? In the absence of industry standards, we're stuck with relying on company owners and project leaders to 'do the right thing'. As we've highlighted above, the MercurySteam policy (as one example, it's certainly not the worst out there) is too vague and potentially unfair. A fixed window should ultimately suffice, in the same way that probation works when you start a new job. Should it be 3 months, or 6 months? Is that enough time for someone to definitely make a contribution that deserves full credit?
I think so, but also think I should discuss it with some developers and project leads and learn from their expertise. Either way, a fixed time period, and not woolly off-the-hoof policies, seems fairer on creators of all kinds. Whether working on scripts, editing, coding, producing concept art, whatever - there are too many contributors to games we love that are overlooked.
At the end of the day it's an industry-wide concern. There are undoubtedly game developers and publishers that credit people properly, too, so the industry should learn from them. Everyone is trying to make and enjoy amazing video games, it's a passion and way of life. When someone contributes to this wonderful medium, they deserve to be acknowledged.
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It isn’t even just the credits issue with MercurySteam. I’m surprised you didn’t cover the employees coming out and speaking about the abusive measures they were subjected to.
Yeah, I was left out of some credits as well. And it was doubly bad for translators, as the company was afraid they would get poached by other studios.
Why has it become a trend that after you're fired from a gaming company you suddenly jump on social media and trash-talk said company?
When it comes to working at a business, you leave or you're fired for very good reasons. With the current Fair Work regulations on how you're handled within a business it's highly unlikely that the people complaining are blameless.
I had my mother come over to my house today and talk about how she has to fill out forms for multiple insignificant complaints towards her from people that were fired from where she works. This isn't just a common practice within the gaming industry, it's common practice everywhere.
We jump the gun without actually knowing what happened in the background. These people were not credited in the end and they should have known this having read the contract. Notice how this only suddenly became an issue after Metroid: Dread was a huge success. People love the instant fame and gratification. In fact, this probably earned these same developers more publicity than the credits actually would have.
Please stop adding fuel to the fire.
It shouldn't even be a debate in the year 2021.
Anyone who contributes to a video game, for any amount of time, should be credited by name.
It takes seconds to type out a name.
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"Well, for one thing, not being credited properly is arguably harmful to someone's career."
To play devil's advocate, do we really think game developers, on receiving an application for somebody who says "I worked for Company X on Game Y" goes and plays Game Y and scours the credits looking for that name?
“Why does this matter? Well, for one thing, not being credited properly is arguably harmful to someone's career.“
This is true! I can’t tell you the amount of times I got someone’s CV, beat the game they worked on, and didn’t even find their name in the credits!
@CharlieGirl
Seriously though... the only reason that movies are credited they way they are is becuase of unions. The main credits are called “above-the-line” credits and everything past that is out of obligations.
Games only have credits as a homage to film. It’s not mandatory or necessary. If this borrowed tradition is becoming a problem in the industry, union up, because the “my feelings” twitter argumentation doesn’t fly.
@nessisonett What? You got receipts for that purchase?
@Spiders The video games industry needs to unionize desperately.
@CharlieGirl It’s HIGHLY improbable. Like, why would anyone ever do that when they can make a phone call or send an email.
The only circumstance I could even imagine is like if I had a billion dollars and just played through Metroid Dread, I’d probably want to get in touch with the Head Level Designer, but again... if I had a billion dollars I would have someone else find out and make a phone call.
@CharlieGirl I totally agree! Unions would solve so many problems we hear about in the industry.
If you quit during production then why should you be credited,you quit its your own fault
@CharlieGirl no only if you finish the game..lol wow
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Out of the Box: Get rid of credits entirely.
@Spiders Unfortunately the interview is only in Spanish but here’s the original text, Google Translate will probably do a fine enough job.
https://www-anaitgames-com.translate.goog/articulos/mercurysteam-empleados-condiciones-trabajo?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=nui
@CharlieGirl If my contribution to anything at work is farting into a microphone and taking 3-hour lunch breaks, no, I shouldn't be credited.
In fact, I work full-time and a lot of the weeks I work overtime. Sometimes it has amounted to 12-14 hours a day just for the extra pay. Have I been credited on anything I have made? Absolutely not.
I have no understanding of why video game developers should deserve extra special treatment, honestly.
I believe nobody got credit for the making of Super Mario Bros. 3 either not even Shigeru Miyamoto and Koji Kondo. In fact SMB3 didn't had a credit ending not even in the All-Stars version.
I'd care but I'm not stupid. Some of these "developers" are just salarymen who don't care about the product. Some guy was mad he got fired and couldn't pad his resume (or worst, left when a better offer showed up).
And don't give me any of that "abuse" nonsense. You want me to take it seriously, file charges with the appropriate entities. If not, I assume you are lying.
Using 'time on the project' to decide if someone deserve credits also cause an extra problem, what if your work is used again, but you left the company or didn't work on the project reusing your work?
It's not even hypothetical, I remember something similar happened when XSeed worked on a port of one of their localized games. An employee with a big role in the localization left the company between the release of the original and the port, so they just reused the work without credit them (I think even NL reported about it back then).
I get that define who deserve credits may be tricky at times, but it feels like some companies are going the extra mile to make sure to credit as few people as possible. As if their logo is all that matter, not the hard work of all those people that are actually helping and contributing in making that logo shine.
@Varkster You seem to have me mistaken for someone who will have her mind changed on the topic of giving people proper credit.
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Keep in mind, people. When you leave a company even 70% into game development, especially if you are fundamentally important to developing said game, it leaves a MASSIVE bad footprint on making the game.
I think a lot of people on the website "outraged" about this don't actually know what it feels like being put in charge of somebody else's coding and looking at it like "wtf is going on?"...
Delays are almost certainly going to follow along with extra costs for each and every employee deciphering said code. It's unnecessary labour. That's all it is.
The funny thing is, it's not like most people sit around and actually pay attention to the credits - many just skip the credits entirely whenever possible. No need to shorten them for whatever reason.
@CharlieGirl Now there's a mature statement. 🙄
Nobody even cares about the credits.
@Varkster This is an internet comment section, it's not that deep.
Very simple if a company has a policy for giving credits to contributors (like the 25% rule) this 100% in their right to do so. People who work for the company should know the company policy.
Complaining about it afterward is just stupid, you choose to work for the company.
Where I work I absolutely get 0 credit for my work, only thing I receive is my salary. And I work for about 80-90% on the products. But that is all set in the company's policy and any software (non-gaming) company here has the same rule.
@Varkster It seems to me that having your name in the credits isn’t special treatment. That sounds to me like a base-level thing, that should be obvious to include.
Tale as old as time. Which is why Warren Robinett hid his name inside his Atari 2600 Adventure (“Created by Warren Robinett”).
With large games today, there may be just too many names to credit them all.
I loved how Peter Jackson listed all the names of the Tolkien fan club in the credits of The Fellowship of the Ring.
@Sandro89 unless your the one looking for a new job advancements opportunities. People need to think before they comment this is what a Resume is for.
@BloodNinja Your point makes sense, but like that's why I have a problem with this being a big deal. You didn't contribute enough work to have your name in the credits and now you're using this as an opportunity to make a big name of yourself?
Instant gratification through social media like TikTok and Twitter has become more and more common. Leave it to all of us vocal morons to express our opinions on it to just add fuel and attention to an issue that is non-existent. Go 10 years back and this kind of thing would never be reported, but because it is nowadays everybody feels over-entitled for attention and pity fame.
If anything it just proves how bizzare our current timeline of events is. This doesn't contribute to, or change anything. It just is and people are going to boycott an entire company just because of the circumstances despite of the enormous amount of work put in by the rest of it. Regardless of what you personally think of the game (I know it's not favourable) a lot of people put in a lot of hours and effort into it. Giving it s*** over a publicity stunt is silly.
I'm not in the credits for anything that I've done. In fact, nothing I've done even has credits. If credits are causing a problem in the video game industry, get rid of them. I just skip past them anyway.
@Varkster tweets or tweeting isn't the same as being credited for putting your labor in completing a game to production. Shouldn't matter how days hours or years one stayed with the project til the end - you deserve credit where it's due. It helps your future Resume - no matter how small a part you played.
Does anyone even bother to read the credits anyway? I normally skip them unless there’s a video playing alongside it.
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This topic is a hard one, and I can see the reasoning on both sides. I wonder how employees who do stay on and make the credits feel about it. Would they be frustrated sharing the credits with someone who did not work as long? For employers who are looking to hire someone for their video game, would they care more about whether the employee has a credit in the game or do they care more about references and how long the employee worked at the previous company?
From the perspective of someone who has no knowledge of what it is like in the video games industry, having a probationary period which is six months - which Whitehead mentioned - does seem fair to me.
@SwitchForce I hear you but how many hours have you put into something in your life when you're never credited? In most industries the names of employees isn't even listed. It's just the name of the company.
I worked on countless projects at my current job where my name will never be known or heard. Someone is complaining about a company they no longer work at and suddenly it's an outrage despite their output probably being as minimal as it can get.
People acting like having your name in the credits is the only way to verify your contributions to a project. Perhaps the only way to have it “verified” when flexing on social media.
But for employment purposes? Your employer will verify on the back end, not because you roll the credits of a game and pause it to go, “look, see my name there?!”
If there’s a legitimate case, take it to court. But since there likely isn’t, take it to social media for ass pats.
I've been in the industry for a looong time now. It's funny to me that Mercury Steam has such a dumb policy. I also agree that credits are stupid too. I can tell you first hand after being involved with many many hires that NO ONE ever backchecks credits. It just isn't a thing. And for all of you crying for unions in the game industry, you'll are nuts. The game industry is so transient, it wouldn't accomplish what you are wanting, it would just line the pockets of some union leader that does nothing, make game creation way more expensive, and potentially strangle indies.
@Varkster There’s nothing unreasonable about any of this. If someone contributed, they should be mentioned, keep it simple. If other circumstances arose, such as voluntarily quitting a project, that’s different. But under normal circumstances, if you farted into a mic then there’s nothing wrong with adding “guy farting into mic: Varkster” somewhere in there.
As for boycotting a company, well, if companies don’t align with public values, then individuals may turn from them. Nothing wrong with that. Some folks like to walk with more integrity, for their own peace of mind.
@Gwynbleidd This is definitely a more pertinent point than the credits debate itself. For the sake of ones professional growth, one shouldn’t have to bash the table to get recognized. Yet, some people in management positions grow weary of competition, and use their power to put others down like this. I faced the same thing when I was in martial arts. My teacher got intimidated by my skill, and actually slowed my ranking process. Another high ranking master had to finally pull him aside and get him to promote me. It was nice of him because I didn’t ask for that, but it was my first exposure to this sort of corruption. Turns out my old martial arts teacher was a child molester, so keeping people down was his thing, no pun intended.
@BloodNinja You’re dead on here. Especially about the ‘boycott’ thing which at the end of the day completely aligns with free market thinking. Individual decisions not to purchase something is a personal thing and up to that person’s judgment. I bought Metroid at launch and I do feel a bit dodgy with all the stuff that’s come out from this but at the end of the day, I can’t exactly give it back so might as well try and engage with the discourse around this subject while appreciating the work these employees did while credited or not.
@nessisonett Yeah, you couldn’t have known ahead of time. Sometimes you find out later. Your money is already spent so I wouldn’t find fault in something like that. The personal boycott is important to the individual. For me, I haven’t bought an EA game since Crysis (original PC release) for obvious reasons. I wasn’t losing sleep over it, but I feel more comfortable knowing I’m not supporting EA. I know news outlets have to sensationalize these stories, but there’s a very real and grounded path hidden in here as well.
@NintendoJunkie While I disagree with your opening, I do wonder about unions hurting game developers more than helping them. I think people forget that when those costs do go up from forming a union, that the consumer will be the one to pay, in the end. If gaming unionizes we could see a full priced game go for $80-$100 easy.
@BloodNinja I know you work, you've mentioned it before in comments. Just imagine you walking into your workplace today, showing the middle finger and saying "I'm out, cya"...
The way jobs work is that if you're trying to look for one, they want a reference. Would you like a person like the one I described above to get one? This is a practice in any kind of business. Metroid: Dread is a mass consumed and mass advertised media. Whether it's important or not to us, your name in the credits will mean a lot to hiring companies. If you haven't contributed anything of significance or left the company in unfavourable circumstances they have no obligation to soften the blow for you.
This is just how the world works.
@CharlieGirl Jesus, is there anything people these days won't whine about?
The company has rules as to when you appear in the credits. It is unlikely employees were unaware of this so why whine about it now?
Also good luck crediting everybody that "worked" on the game. So if somebody joins the team, creates half a texture and the leaves that person should be credited? For what? Expecting a reasonable contribution before receiving credit isn't unreasonable. Otherwise you'll have to credit everybody in the whole company.
As for being in the credits being important for future work; I doubt it. If that person did a decent job they'll be able to get a reference so it's a moot point. And it's not like some HR guy is going to check the credits of a game to see if you are actually in there.
Sounds like people here never had a real job. How often does the average office slave get credit for anything?
@Varkster That’s an extraneous circumstance, outside of normal professionalism. We have had employees at my place of business do that from time to time. When they inevitably come back, they aren’t eligible for re-hire. Of course nobody would want that reference, but I don’t think anybody is defending that type of behavior.
@Ponyo404 I just got two promotions almost back to back in a 4 month period. I’m feeling pretty recognized, so some of us “average joes” do get the recognition, if we have an employer that recognizes it.
@JoeMoney333 I like the music during the credits, that's usually when I reflect on my experience with the game. But maybe we can just remove all the names.
I work at human resources, been doing so the last 20 years (all my career) right now, at a large German company but it has been from small local one's to larger international firms. Turnover it's one of the worst problems companies face while talking about employees, most companies do this kind of policies to try and get people to stay a minimum of 1 year, year and a half.
Mercury steam is a Spanish company, I'm pretty sure some of its staffers use it as a platform to get into the industry and then make the jump to other companies. Been on europe and having all those countries to work (most of them with presumably better salaries and conditions than in Spain) can only make matters worst. so yeah, they have a policy most of you guys find it unacceptable, to those I would say: read the contract and if you don't agree, find some place else. No HR department hire based on your name being on a screen, you go at interviews with your full portafolio to proof you are capable to perform the job you applied for and we do background checks, it take us 5 minutes to know what companies hired you previously.
Stop romanticizing this.
@BloodNinja That's my point exactly, you clearly know that if you leave sometimes you're not even allowed to come back regardless of your current circumstances. This is unfavourable, yeah, but we don't live in a perfect world.
What we are seeing in this article is just a minor functional problem within democracy. There are much larger issue out there, but these small missteps bring out the most emotional responses which I think are entirely misguided. The negative mindsets should be directed at the system in place rather than the company under fire. This article and the comments are of no consequence and change nothing.
I always skip the credits
@BloodNinja I said a lot of things. Which one are you in disagreement with?
I'm not gonna talk about the guy or his claim.
What deeply baffles me is how people just LOVE to defend corporations and businesses they're/were not even part of. They've never worked for them, don't have a clue about goes on in that workplace, but they still say whatever it takes to defend them. That's a crazy thing!
Just to make it clear: I have a company myself, but I still don't get people. Whatever
@BloodyMurder wow! So if a female friend or family member told you she was sexually abused but didn't want to go to the police i take it you would be calling her a liar yes?
The idea that unless you go further with complaint you are liar is absurd. Do you not see how ridiculous you sound.
@John_Deacon I am amazed how people are more quick to defend corporations and business over the workers. Madness!
The biggest problem is that there is no actual reason to exclude someone from the credits. Doesn't matter if they worked a day or a year. Give them credit.
@nessisonett Thanks.
I'm not too convinced this counts as "abuse". They literally say that project was cut in scope because they don't do crunch.
Translated from the article: "They punish workers who don't do things the way the studio wants them to a lot". Really? You don't say.
"The Human Resources department does not want to negotiate or deal with any problems with the workers." Ummm... have these people ever had a job before? That may as well be the definition of an HR department.
What would change my mind is some disclosure about who this article is quoting. Fact is — and I don't love it, but it is what it is — is that there is a very small "core" team who stays with the company through projects, and many, if not most, are contract workers who come in as development increases in scope, and are let go as production winds down. They were treated like second-class employees because they were.
It also sounds like MercurySteam created a path to request a transfer from the other project to Metroid by paying them less. Maybe it's not the best solution, but they took the deal.
It sounds like the trouble MercurySteam had was the expectation that Nintendo wrote a blank check that would fund both projects at MercurySteam — and good for them for trying, maybe it worked with Konami — but when Dread itself got cut in scope, it made a wave through the company.
Honestly, this sounds like an "Aziz Ansari" situation... a bad date is not assault, and a bad job is not abuse. I am very pro-labor, and these kinds of problems are part the awful way game development contracts out work, not of a particularly "abusive culture" at MercurySteam.
I'll admit I'm biased because I love Metroid Dread, but I'm also very relieved to hear the complaints are not substantive and sound more like a bad experience job at worst, and sour grapes at best.
SIDE NOTE: thank God for Nintendo's intervention because they nailed the balance on story. 120+ cinematics sounds miserable.
@NintendoJunkie I appreciate your perspective, but film and television is "transient" too. I'd give a lot more weight to someone in a union in one of those industries than someone who isn't that doesn't see that value of organizing labor.
@gojiguy There's no reason to put them in the credits. It's not a law. There's no union that demands it. Credits are a tip-of-the-hat to cinema that became a thing as games tried to be more like movies, and only even make sense in games with endings — which many games don't have!
There is also are valid reason not to have them included in the credits:
1) Traditionally, credits are done by department in alphabetical order. Should the person who animated turrets get top billing in the animation department over the brilliant work of the Samus animators because their last name is Alvarez? Some people deserve more credit than others, surely.
2) The player has to watch these things! Metroid has a "stinger-esque" tradition of showing a clear screen and a bonus image. I appreciate the primacy of the player experience here over the feelings of a handful of contractors who didn't do as much as the people listed. It's essentially a cut scene, and the brevity is appreciated.
Poor little snowflakes.
@Gwynbleidd yes but I think those are two separated issues. I, in no way, shape or form endorse bad practices nor am I defending companies (in this case mercury steam) since often times the truth lies in beetween.
@SwitchForce
First: they weren't programmers.
Second: they didn't make enough of the game to fit the 25% rule.
Third: they also didn't fit any special credits.
Fourth: I never get credited for the work I do as a programmer in normal software. Even though I write around 90% of it.
Fifth: It's only a small company (160 employees acording to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MercurySteam)) so corporate bootlicking doesn't fit either.
@John_Deacon Same goes to those that defend people without reading the entire details of the account. I understand how corporations are funded and fueled by greed, but how can you be surprised as a business owner yourself with how many ppl are willing to falsify and change the narrative just to simply hurt others or advance themselves ?
If you got paid to contribute, that is your credit.
@CharlieGirl It is actually very improbable.
@Magrane That's exactly why I said in the first line of my comment I wouldn't say anything about the guy or his claim
It doesn't matter if people defend the guy or the studio aggressively without even knowing what really went on. The side doesn't matter. What matters is that to many people everything in life is like a sports competition: you gotta pick a team and that's it. Few comments tried to do anything but bash one of the sides and that's human nature
As a business owner myself I know really well there are bad guys on both sides. A lot of them
@Would_you_kindly I think almost everyone does. That’s what’s hilarious about this uproar. It’s almost like a South Park plot line.
@Kejomo being paid for there labour should not be seen as some good will and the credit they are asking for.
Oh shut up, dude only worked there 8 months, stop crying over everything
@Varkster "This thing is wrong, so these other things must be wrong as well."
Why is it that instead of trying to fix the problem, we find other similar problems to compare it to and use it as an excuse to leave it alone? We don't want to give game developers special treatment. If you aren't being credited for your 10-12 hours of work that's on you for settling, other people shouldn't have to do the same. If they want credit i'd be more than happy to fight for them, if you want credit I'll do the same for you too. If you don't then sit down but don't tell others to sit down too.
Discussions always devolve to "It's always been broken, why fix it now!?"
@Jireland92 The people who worked on it probably do
@Spiders I can ask my friends in the industry, and see what they say.
The only place I will be credited is on my tombstone. Get over it. In the big scheme of things you are nothing.
You can tell which people have actually worked hard to create something and which haven't.
@NintendoJunkie Please do! That could be very illuminating for the conversation here.
@Varkster I happen to agree with you in that it is minor. For the employees, it must feel major, but they should be trying to handle it in some way. I hope they are doing so.
@NintendoJunkie Just the part about credits being stupid, that’s all
Again why is this sadly?
Consign from the video world this is very common a d justified !
@ATaco It's not the fact that I'm excusing it for being okay, I am simply giving my piece on why I believe it's odd to make a massive outrage about this isolated issue when this happens on an everyday basis.
We aren't going to suddenly change the world, we have to look at things from multiple perspectives to see the fault, and I feel the community is failing at this currently with this specific issue.
Nobody here knows what has actually been going on within the company and with the employees. Why are we suddenly trying to throw shade at a company because one person decided to make a big fuss about it through social media, despite having given reasonable rights and statements during the contracting process?
I have worked on well over 200 movies and tv shows, I'm only allowed to be credited for about 50 on IMDb (and often only credited as an extra on projects that I also did camera/sound/vfx work on, simply because the "extra" can be proved as it was onscreen). Similarly I've produced and/or written around 70 songs that were in the music charts and recieved no credit. Oftentimes the NDAs don't even "allow" me to say I've worked on them, but screw that I'm at least putting some of it on my CV to show experience and help me get more jobs, and if anyone questions it I can prove it with pay slips (or for unpaid work, call times and emails) - as well as the obvious fact that often I'm infront of the camera or visible in behind the scenes footage/shots.
I don't know if its the case for this specific game, but I can tell you the main reason media companies don't like to credit everyone - its so they can fiddle the books. Do things cheaper and off union (or even using unpaid interns, volunteers, extras who just responded to a facebook post etc) then instead of crediting the individuals, credit a company - for example crediting an extras agency, VFX studio, post house, etc. This is done to either save money, or even worse, take the money that should have been paid and launder it or pass it onto some of the above the line names, like producers.
On top of this, most "budgets" used for tax purposes are ficticious and purposefully impossible to verify - using similar techniques to the above, and also "deferring" huge amounts. A $300 million movie actually costs $30 million upfront for the investors/producers, and then the people above the line write themselves blank cheques for $270 million, sending the film in debt, to be paid back when its eventually released. What this means is the first $270 million of "profit" is not legally profit and goes to pay the blank cheque "debt", before anyone on "points share" or promised return on profits sees anything. The bad thing about this is that often the film never pays off that debt, and the company is liquidated writing it off (all blockbuster movies are produced by individual one off companies set up for this purpose). This means that the little guys further down the chain who worked for cheap or free under the promise they'd get a cut of the profits or would be paid months or years later when the film released, never actually get anything, whilst the $270 million is shared throughout a handful of the top people (or offshore tax haven shell "companies" that they infact own).
The above "legal scam" would not be possible if every single person was credited for everything they did and was allowed to talk about it freely. And whilst its tempting to think (as I see others who I like and respect doing above) that unionising would fix this problem, in the Hollywood system at least the guilds and unions are specifically the things that allow this to happen. They know the corruption is happening and the big producers, directors and stars are being paid far too much, but they are getting a large percentage of their earnings, plus the fact all the top brass are members of their unions makes the organisation look good and keep them being the industry standard and upholding their power. While trade unions are absolutely an important thing for working class jobs, once you get to the top echelons of the entertainment industry, money and power corrupts and they often do nothing or actually make things actively worse, as if they stanped down on it they'd lose profts and be overturned and switched for another corrupt organisation.
Again, perhaps none of that is the case here, I have little experience of AAA videogames production, I only work in indie games, but I have over 2 decades of experience in the film, tv and music industry and these are universal problems.
It seems odd to be that upset about credits. To me you got paid, that's the credit they gave you.
Does anyone even pay attention to credits in anything? I hate when I can't skip through the credits.
One example that comes to my mind (though that might also be for another topic): Jason Griffith, Sonic's former voice actor, is credited properly in Smash Bros. Brawl for his work voicing the character, in Smash 4 and Ultimate, Sonic is now voiced by Roger Craig Smith but Griffith's voice can still be heard when Sonic swims. As far as I've read, he wasn't credited in those games. Should he be credited for that recycled grunt?
@BakaKnight "what if your work is used again"
90% of companies where you work for a paycheck from them has in their contract explicitly that ALL your work under them belongs to them alone, not you. Most industries are like this. My job specified this. Only way for me to avoid it is if I made my own business. If they paid the translator for this work as their employee, it belongs to them alone. If the translator didn't like this, they shouldn't have worked for the company in the first place, it is in the contract. Copyright is a very fickle thing and that's the main reason why older video games aren't rereleased, licensing issues. If companies had to get approval to reuse every single thing each employee did, much less retro releases would be possible. Nintendo Life shows the copyright issues here: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/04/talking_point_nintendo_and_the_industry_needs_to_get_serious_about_game_preservation
NintendoLife should really stop making these articles. If a person's work history is up for debate, I'm sure the questioning company could call the person's old work to get it verified. As others mentioned, the idea a company would look specifically at the credits of the finished product and not contact the company is baffling. Most of my work is under NDA, so the questioning company would 100% have to contact my prior work to verify I worked there.
@Davzilla Entertainment industry work is freelance and fleeting. If you worked on a big AAA project everyone's heard of, its important to be able to use that on your CV to get hired for more work. The fact its common for companies to refuse credit on projects means people can lie about it, and therefore future employers need to check to verify. Sure, its nice to have gotten paid, but that doesn't help you to eat next month or next year without being credited for your work so you can get future contracts.
@FlameRunnerFast Fair point, but not what I meant.
Obviously the company should exclusively own any work in term of freedom of using it, but that shouldn't remove or make futile to properly credit who actually made that work.
Of course, this is also just my opinion and the one of many others.
Even in the example I made of XSeed, they technically did nothing wrong, their contract clearly stated they don't credit who isn't in the company anymore by the time of a release. Nothing legally made that wrong and the emploee was aware of it too and it was the fans that were shocked in finding out that someone that had a major influence and role in the work done was removed from the credits.
Indeed this whole topic is about how many of the current 'fair and legal' contracts in the game industry feels wrong, something that, as much as I get your point, I can't shake the feeling that in some cases could benefit from some adjustments and a little more respect for everyone's involvement (though of course the random comment of someone online will not change much, I'm aware of that).
I read that spanish article the somebody posted up there... and man, thats awful.
It goes beyond "i'm not credited" into really a company that treats their employees as expendables, doesn't care for them, with poor management and even trying to ostracize people's careers.
Thats really *****.
@Varkster @DarkYoshi98 @BloodyMurder @Mother_brain_85 Because someone no longer works for a company doesn't mean they were fired in the gaming industry.
Creative Industris are a contract work business. Someone might be needed cinematics for 11 months, but there's no more cinematics to do after so the person is put on another project or the contract just ends.
If that imaginary guy worked on Dread, he wouldn't have been credited, despite doing good work for a good chunk of their life.
They probably won't get hired again though, as "whistleblowing" is usually frowned upon by companies.
@HedgehogEngine Would it be fair to not credit people like Masahiro Sakurai on Super Smash Bros. (hypothetically)? He's also not an employee of Nintendo, but a contractor.
Why should Sakurai be treated different than any other contractor who did major contributiuons to a game?
I'm just here reading the comments. Pay no attention to me. 😉
@sanderev @Varkster @FlameRunnerFast Just because "it is what it is" makes it a fair system. Using public momentum to make the public aware of the problem is the only thing they could do with an industry-wide problem.
If people just accepted "what is", we'd still have 60 hour work weeks as the standard for everyone.
@Tandy255 @Spiders @Davzilla There's games out there who have 30-minute credit rolls. It's also common to list production babies. Why should it be okay then to arbitrarily go and say "you just worked 11 months on this before your contract ended, it's not worth putting your name on a credit roll"?
And even if time was an issue, this is a game, not a movie in cinemas. You could still add credits as scrollable list in a menu that players can ignore, but the workers who actually care about this and need it for future applications have easily accesible proof.
@FantasiaWHT @Spiders There's go-to databases that collect that data for you. No need to play the whole game when you hire someone.
@Gwynbleidd
I'm just tired of politics. Humankind is so divided, its like looking from above seeing us tearing ourselves apart. We cant seem to agree on anything anymore. Guess its just human nature.
@BloodNinja Roger that FWIW I'm all about folks getting credit for their work. I just can speak from personal experience that I've never sat through credits except for Marvel (and that wasn't to read off a litany of names). The best credits I've ever experienced were on a Super Monkey Ball game where I bowled over all the devs names.
@HedgehogEngine The problem here is how it's super arbitrary to decide who is big enough to credit. The people who talked about MSs policy worked 8 months and 11 months on the project. Do you think that deserves less of a credit than the name of all the production babies on a different game?
@HedgehogEngine a production baby is just a baby born to someone during their work on the game, who I guess earned their credits by being born
@HedgehogEngine A production baby is a baby born during the time of the project. It's literally their sole contribution: Existing. The same goes for stuff like company pets.
I'm not shaming this. Of course not, it's cute! But it becomes strangely bizarre to think that a case could potentially happen where in a family, everyone but the mother or father gets credited because the "production baby" had them take paternity/maternity leave and thus brought them under 25% - while said parent worked longer than the baby was in the oven.
@NintendoJunkie Ah, so you like to monkey around? 🥳
@HedgehogEngine It's cute to think that, but companies won't go through the effort if you don't complain about it. Credits as they are now are super subjective and thus don't have a value outside of employing negotiations.
Like... a guy could work on a character design for 3 months. That design is so good it lays the groundwork for the rest of tha game's design, even inspring levels, items, settings, etc.... Would it be okay to not credit them because the rest of the team worked 10 months longer than him, despite all of their work literally being based in his design?
Back in the days of Adventure, Atari didn't credit developers at all. It was company policy. It had the same reason it has today: People having less arguments to re-negotiate their contracts and less options to get poached by other companies.
This is how easter eggs were born, and would not have changed if people didn't talk about it.
Companies telling you your work is worth more than another person's because of some arbitrary numeric value is just a lie the higher-ups want you to believe so they great the illusion of fairness, thus making you ignore how their policy actually limits your options in improving your own working conditions.
It also totally skews the idea how many people and work hours are needed to work on a project if you leave out a good chunk of them, which only benefits companies in negotiating how it should be cheaper to produce their product.
@CharlieGirl
I dont get why it should happen? it was stated in their contract what to do to earn a credit. they didnt meet the criteria. Thats all there is to it. The company do not owe these temp workers anything. 8 months is not a long term employee is it? If they wanted to get a credit then they should have worked there longer
@Davzilla guess they should be grateful that the boss at mercury steam was so kind that he paid them for the work they did. These damn workers need to show gratitude that they were not working for free. How dare they criticize there employer. They need to know there place in society.
Should they be credited? Yeah. Is this a big deal? No. There are many ways of putting yourself out there these days, and potential employers can just search on LinkedIn or other sites to find the people they need. They could just as easily move to not doing credits, like in TV. The first few times you get credited it’s cool, but you get over it quickly.
@HedgehogEngine Then how, if all of that was true, can stuff like this still happen today... and regularly:
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commentary/why-were-artists-snubbed-from-blue-skys-new-scrat-short-121620.html
@HedgehogEngine Because tech biz is different from gaming. In Tech, there's more jobs than programmers so they have an easy timefor leverage. Games and other entertainment industries is highly competitive and sadly has built an industry around said validation. I've met recruiters who said they don't even look at a person's portfolio if they have less than 10 AAA-credits on their sleeve.
That's especially bad on productions where you aren't allowed to use work samples on your portfolio because of NDA reasons. I have worked on productions where the credit is literally all I can show off, but the quality of my work is shown with smaller productions that have less complicated rights, and the credits of bigger games and the dates in my resume show recruiters I know how to work in bigger production environments (as in I know production software, mannerisms, etc.). If I didn't have the latter, my rates would be much, much lower, or not get projects of this scale at all despite having worked with the conditions these people look for, with the quality these people look for and having recommendation letters of my former employees that went out of their way to really make up for the fact I couldn't show said work off.
@E_maniac As others have mentioned, entertainment industries are usually contract based work. Rarely it's withinn control of the employee how long they work on a project.
They could have been booked on a different project in the same company because their expertise was needed on a troubling project. They could have been booked late into the production (and if they could have done it without their work as the credits suggest, why even book them that long then?). Or their specialist task was only needed for those 8 months of production (e.g. stuff like concept art), and their contract wasn't extended because their currently was no project demanding said task.
So I don't see why people should be "punished" for things that were beyond their control.
@PoliticallyIncorrect you sir will recieve credit from me for reading the comments in this section
@HedgehogEngine Well, the truth is that said NDA policies exist and aren't uncommon (I had this on several projects), even if they are dumb. Of course they'd have a hard time to prove I ever show this off in negotiations... but then we're back at ignoring some policies and not ignoring others as we or each individual company sees fit.
And I don't see how we should accept these levels of "winging it" - as this article so nicely put it - as a "normal solution" rather than not accepting these weird policies in the first place and making sure they are leveled for everyone.
Someone’s name wasn’t included in the game credits?
To quote a great man: “Not my problem”
I don't even think this should be a debate at all, most people in this industry sign a contract stating any work they do is property of the company, also they have to work a certain ammount of time or meet a certain quota of contribution to be credited in the game.
It's not like MercurySteam stole their work and used it without permission, also even if they don't appear in game credits they can still put their work in a portfolio, as long said work doesn't violate any NDA.
The issue goes beyond credits.
Mercury has very poor working conditions. It's well known in Spanish game dev community how toxic this company is. Workers don't last longer at Mercury Steam because of how bad they're treated by management. It's been known for 15-20 years and nobody do or say anything about it.
https://www-anaitgames-com.translate.goog/articulos/mercurysteam-empleados-condiciones-trabajo?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=nui
@Varkster It seems more like you're being dismissive and making assumptions about the people coming out and complaining about this, and making assumptions about them being fired or let go.
In short. You're doing the exact same crap you're touting other people are doing about jumping the gun. So you really have no place to talk there.
Then you go on about some overly exaggerated rhetoric about contributions and signal your virtue of working yourself to the bone as if you're better than those people. Get over yourself you arrogant mook.
I don’t agree that absolutely everybody requires (or deserves) a credit. Far too often they add unnecessary length and include people whose contributions to the game are virtually nonexistent, such as marketing personnel and localisation teams (at least for unrelated versions). We aren’t given an exhaustive list of every actor/post-production crew member involved in localising films for other markets, or their marketing teams, so why are games different? Cut the fat and be done with it already.
Incidentally, I found the credits for the classic DOOM ports to be so excessive and indulgent that it felt insulting to the original developers. The original game was made by a team of about six men. The credits for the port exhaustively listed every marketing/QA staff member, which frankly, I doubt that most people give a rats about. I am all for giving credit where credit is due, but not every worker bee whose contributions to the work itself are inconsequential/nonexistent warrant a credit.
Most jobs are predominantly thankless. After most productive employees produce more usable output than what is put into a project. However, that is the purpose of pay and benefits. That is why companies have performance reviews. If you got paid for your work, you were given your due. If you signed a contract with stipulations on any extra recognition and you fall short… that is on you not the company. If it was that important then negotiate and if the company won’t budge you have a choice to make. Either way you can put your experience on your CV which is your real credits screen anyway.
@MegaVel91 Throwing personal insults into the mix doesn't give your point of view any credence. I'm giving my point of view in a discussion and presenting examples which would support this opinion. If the issue in said article was so unjust, it would have been taken to court. I'll just politely tell you to shut up and move on.
This is definitely a serious topic that needs to be addressed.
BUT in case of Metroid Dread they had it written down in their contracts: "Work for at least 25 % of the development time on a project to get credited." They did not, so no credit. As easy as that.
What do People expect when leaving a Company?
It is not as easy to keep Track on what every Employee did in what amount.
It IS pretty hard and you can't make everybody Happy with it.
Also, if you took the Border to mention People to low or you just take everybody, you make People angry that actually did much more and kept working until the very End.
As i mentioned in another Article, in my Company we tried to give Employees an little Extra that kept making extra Hours every here and then.
There where also People being in the House, according to the System, but only because they where changing Cloths.
So to just take everybody that was in the House would be unfair, since only a Part was really working.
So for me, sounds more like Crybabies wanting Part of a Cake they didn't take as much Part of making it as they think.
Do not give them Attention.
It is unfair to Employees really doing work.
If an actor isn't in 25% of a movie, they still get credit in the credits
@Spiders you genuinely have NO idea what you're talking about. I'm a game industry veteran. On every project I work on, I get credits.
The only reason Mercury Steam does this is because they're run by awful people and have a terrible reputation in Spain.
And how about posthumous credits? I don't know if this is something worth thinking about, but I don't remember seeing Iwata's name mentioned anywhere in either of the credits for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. No "special thanks to" or "in memory of" Satoru Iwata. After all, SSBU was the final game he assigned to Sakurai.
I can't bring myself to care about someone's ego getting fluffed by being included in credits nobody reads anyways when they knew the standards for inclusion when they accepted the job.
If I accept a job and they tell me beforehand, "you must at least contribute for 25% of development time for credits inclusion", and I sign, I'm not gonna throw a fit on social media when I'm not included because I only worked the last 4 months of a 4 year cycle.
If ppl want inclusion despite a minority contribution, they need to hash that out at time of hiring. Not after you've agreed.
Again, please be informed, this is not only an issue of credits:
https://www-anaitgames-com.translate.goog/articulos/mercurysteam-empleados-condiciones-trabajo?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=nui
Mercury Steam is an awful developer, they didn't sign a 25% development time to be credited, it's not in the contract and it's not in the company rules, it's something made up to justify how they treat ppl, how they threat ppl, how they use junior underpayed to do the job, how the fire ppl when they don't agree with management, how they do a bad planning...
Again, please, read
https://www-anaitgames-com.translate.goog/articulos/mercurysteam-empleados-condiciones-trabajo?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=nui
@Azuris Big companies like that usually track every task that is done on a project with project management software.
If they wanted to, it wouldn't take more than a few clicks to get a print from that.
It's a political issue, not one of effort
@BowtieShyGuy why do you see it as being punished? if they were only on temp contracts then why would they be recognized? Its like any job, temp contracts do not get the full perks of full time staff (ie bonuses, insurances etc) why would this be any different?
Does the guy who works in the CD making factory get a credit on the album? or does the temp who cleaned the recording studio get a credit? i dont see the issue. they knew the way it would shake down, why complain about it?
@E_maniac Because this industry a large part are "temp" contracts, sometimes up to 80% or more. Barely anyone hires people permanently any more. I have worked for superviors who were 10 years with the same company, but only get renewed annually for a year. With only occasional breaks of 3 months, which were basically just a nice way of saying unpaid holidays.
You can't compare this to your usual Janitor job, smh
Now all new game design graduates, struggling to find experience, should write "mercurysteam lead designer 11 months" on their resume. There's simply no way of knowing who worked there! Just imagine how many requests for references they'll get.
@gojiguy How am I wrong? Tell me how credits in video games are enshrined in law, policy, or are even standardized in the way it is in film or television.
Examples:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/delivery/credits-branding-trademarks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGA_screenwriting_credit_system
https://www.documentary.org/sites/default/files/images/articles/DPACreditingGuidelines.pdf
There's nothing like this in games, and never will be without unions.
Why has it become the norm to get credited in movies/tv/games?
I also want to be credited. Fanboi, Mortenb
@TOMAWOLF In movies and TV it was institutionalized by the industry in the 1960s and continued to be ratified by production companies and unions by everything from contracts to accepted best practices by medium and genre. Before then credits were “above-the-line”, and no guarantee any supporting cast or production team would be on it. Most movies didn’t even have closing credits, only opening.
In games — despite @gojiguy ‘s protests — closing credits always been an homage to movies that I guess we’re now expected to take seriously because people have hurt feelings.
Maybe this is the start of that, but like I’ve been repeating in here ad nauseum, closing credits have the effort of unions and organized labor, and there’s no reason that games can just copy the practice without copying the methods that got them standard in the first place.
Personally, I think I should be credited in the Nintendo Life articles I comment in. I provide more content and clearly do more research. What percentage of clicks does my commentary generate?
Absolutely insane that there people who believe you shouldn't be credited for your work.
@BloodNinja I don't even know how to respond.... 🤪😀
@Purgatorium Why should it be expected? What line of work are you in?
For me, I never personally add my name to something I create.
@Spiders I don't mind people getting credit for something they’ve worked on, but I do find it odd that its expected.
@TOMAWOLF Do you want credit for something you've created? If not, then don't worry about it.
@Purgatorium What exactly is the value of having your name in the credits aside from stroking ones ego?
@TOMAWOLF People put value on things in different ways. Like I said, if you don't want credit for your work then don't worry about it. If someone does, it's innocuous. Who cares? Does it hurt you? Does it hurt anyone? What's your problem?
@Purgatorium I don't have a problem. Its simply a question.
@TOMAWOLF The answer to your question is in my comment #93 above. In the entertainment industry, being credited for work means the difference between getting more work or never working again.
To give a non industry example. Lets say you work at a restaurant for 10 years, and then the restaurant starts not doing so well and has to lay off half the staff. But, they don't allow you to put it on your CV, nor will they write you a reference, or even admit that you ever worked there in the first place. Good luck applying for a new job with a 10 year gap on your CV. This problem is 100 times worse for entertainment industry work, because often contracts are only for a few months maximum, sometimes a few days. You have to constantly be applying for new jobs, and rely on the experience you previously have to show that you are capable and experienced.
Its not about vanity, its about being able to afford to feed and house your family.
@samuelvictor Correct me if I'm wrong but this article is talking about having ones name in the final credits that we all see as the game ends. It doesn't say or imply that the company denies any involvement by this individual. Or that this individual is forbidden to include the work they contributed in their demo reel or on their resume.
Now, if this or any company does do all of that, I agree its 100% wrong and has a direct impact on a persons livelihood. However, if my understanding is correct and they are allowed to show their work and include it on their resume but do not meet this companies (unfair or otherwise) policy for being included in the final credits, Its not really that big of a deal.
@TOMAWOLF Thats a fair response and I don't know the full situation in that exact case, I was more answering your question as to why a credit would be so important in general. However, what I can say for sure having over 2 decades in many areas of the entertainment industry and having this problem be prevalent everywhere, is that people on both sides KNOW its a huge issue, and many people use this knowledge to lie on their CV - claiming they worked on massive projects that they didn't (one extreme example is an ex-colleague of mine who made an entire career going around comic cons in multiple countries signing pictures claiming to have worked on major movies that he didn't!).
Often the only way an employer can verify if they did the actual work they claim to have done is to either see it credited on the actual crawl of the project itself, or on IMDb (which has safety checks to verify user edits, which usually simply consists of checking the credits - or verifying pay stubs, contracts etc). In a games industry sense just showing screenshots, models, levels or whatever that you supposedly made has no way to verify it is your work. And no, most big companies do not accept unsolicited phonecalls or emails asking to verify if an uncredited person worked on a project - sometimes just because they are busy, but also this is often for legal protection because some kind of creative accounting has occurred - see my other posts above for a more detailed explanation of a very common reason.
I actually have a full deep dive podcast episode coming up in the next few weeks detailing multiple examples of this happening and why, where I will use many examples of when and where I've directly experienced this issues at all levels of entertainment (admittedly mostly in film, tv and movies - but uncredited VFX work in media is basically the same as uncredited work in a videogame, for all intents and purposes in this conversation).
@samuelvictor thank you for the thoughtful, informed response. This is exactly what I wanted to know to better understand this issue!
I will have to check out your podcast episode!
@TOMAWOLF Hey no problem, and thank you!
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