Soapbox: Pokémon Desperately Needs A Rival, But Who's Big Enough To Take It On?

The Beatles, that's who!

People who want pokemon - like things already got pokemon, so it's kinda hard for any monster based game to compete. The lackluster design of the monsters plays a big role, too. It's not easy to make hundreds of cute huggable yet fierce pets

Not a single IP comes to mind that could compete with Pokemon. Sadly, the success of Pokemon isn't about the quality of the games but the IP itself. Stuff like TemTem or Digimon is nice and all and they maybe are also better games than Pokemon is but people don't care because the Pokemon franchise isn't attached to it.

It is hard, pretty much every big budget Mon collecting game is immediately dismissed because everyone calls it a "Wannabe Pokemon killer" even when the developers have little to no intention of killing anything, and they are subconsciously giving themselves to the notion that it can only be ONE big Mon franchise out there.

The same applies with Smash Bros and the limited success of any other platform fighter, it is either bigger than the original, or an absolute failure, no in between.

nintendo must guarantee that any future pokemon game not be in the terrible shape pokemon violet and scarlet was..

"However, ambitious as it was, Pokémon Scarlet and Violet is, by most metrics, an inferior game to Sword and Shield."

I strongly disagree. Yes, it has tons of technical problem but at least otherwise it was a solid Pokemon game. SwSh may not have had those technical difficulties but was lackluster otherwise. Routes mostly were linear, literally zero optional places to explore, interesting story bits happened outside of the players presence (amok running Perrserker, explosion in the power plant). Don't see how that is better than SV

I had a ton of fun playing through Pokemon Violet while playing through Pokemon Sword left me underwhelmed

There are alternative monster collection titles, and more abstractly alternative and waaaaaaaaaaaaay better turn-based strategy games. Like with platform fighters, Nintendo fans just prefer the terrible home brand.

Pokémon is a video game and an IP, you have to address both. Any developer could (and several do) make creature collecting games that have been critically accepted as as good or better then Pokémon. But that's not going to move 20 million units.

On the IP scale, it's not about the publisher's investment or promotion. Pokémon is LITERALLY the most recognized entertainment brand on earth, overtaking Sanrio a few years ago. While the argument here is well made and is interesting to talk about, the question is basically equivalent to asking "What manufacture is big enough to take on Coca cola?"

None. Case closed.

All a publisher like Square or CAPCOM putting 100% of their money and clout behind a competitor would mean is that maybe it would have a chance of catching up with Pokémon in 25 years when an independent title would take 30.

No large publisher is ever going to compete in this space because If you have a billion dollars to drop on a decade long strategy to make a world wide phenomena ... just do it in a genre that isn't already saturated.

Like maybe something involving squids and tactical, environmental based combat that's designed to use music and in-game idols to translate to a real word merchandising empire ...

Oh crap. Yeah, looks like Nintendo is going to keep this crown for a while.

Dragon Quest Monsters is a very good rival to Pokemon, in my opinion, so I hope it really takes off now. It's not so much about getting attached to any one monster, but it works better as an RPG.

Summoners War Sky Arena on mobile

So unfortunately, the thing I like the most about Pokémon games is literally the Pokémon themselves.
No matter how much better any other monster collecting RPG can possibly be, it's not going to have the Pokémon creatures in it. It's an unfortunate situation because the official Pokémon games are getting worse and worse and worse.

Idk a game franchise who’s majority of fans aren’t ok with games being released rushed and unfinished lol

Unfortunately, The Pokémon Company has enough invested into various markets (games, animation, movies, toys, merch, etc) to ensure the brand is so recognizable in the public consciousness, that there will never, ever be a competitor big enough to take on Pokémon.

As a Dragon Quest fanatic, I would love to see the new Monsters game give Pokémon a run for it's money, but let's face facts. The Dragon Quest brand has only recently began to get significant attention in the West with XI - I don't think it's going to suddenly go toe-to-toe with the highest-grossing franchise in the world with a spin-off.

Yo-Kai Watch was shaping up to be a contender in Japan, but when Level-5 tried going international with it, fell apart. People were touting Temtem as the next possible contender and I don't hear anybody talking about it anymore now that it's out. At the end of the day, Pokémon has comfortably held the throne for monster-catching games on the global stage for decades and it's next to impossible for it to be outdone now.

@Funneefox The majority of Pokémon fans don't care about that though, the sales prove this time and time again.

There are sooooo many Pokémon clones and literally nobody cares. People like Pokémon because it's Pokémon.

@HeadPirate I, for one, am expecting my stock in RC Cola to rise any day now! 😅

I say it doesn't need a 'big' rival, you can't compete with all the nostalgia the series has behind it, which will keep being passed down as people have children and introduce them to it. Keep it how it is now with little indie teams with a lot of passion and great ideas making these 'knock-offs' to the point where it's own genre entirely and not seen as merely clones. Cassette Beasts despite its terrible switch port is the best monster collector I've played since Black and White, more of this please. And as more people lose faith and get jaded with Pokemon (which will continue to happen) the more these will sell and coexist alongside Pokemon.

@Poodlestargenerica This - you can't throw a stick without hitting a game that's trying to be the next Pokémon. The closest thing we've had to a franchise that was actively competing with Pokémon is Yo-Kai Watch. It had massive push overseas, especially in the West, produced shows and a manga alongside the games, and was even overtaking Pokémon in Japan for a little while. Not to mention it was even exclusive to the Nintendo 3DS, Pokémon's home at the time. But look at it now, essentially non-existent in the West with the 3DS eShop's closure.

@Nanami_Ataraxia I wish co-existing was that simple, but when push comes to shove, the amount of people begging for a Pokémon alternative don't even come close to matching the sales these games actually get. Funny enough, it seems that indie developers have the best shot in pulling this off nowadays since most AAA developers aren't willing to take the risk anymore.

Never really found the games good to begin with. Only similar game I actually had a lot of fun with was Custom Robo Arena on the DS, now that was a game!

I think it can be done. In the case of Dragon Quest Monsters, part of the lack of "success" is due to Square Enix's intermittent publishing of their games. Furthermore for both capcom and square their monster collection games are derivatives of already established franchises.

Anything that challenges Pokemon needs to look at how splatoon carved out its niche. It must have character, strong art direction, and stand out compared to its competitors.

@Thief
Nah its never gonna even come close in numbers, that's for sure, doesn't matter how good the game is. But for the people who really want better Pokemon, that's where to look. Thing is it's the same in any genre, let's say people love Final Fantasy (just an example) chances are they are not going to actually go out of their way to put some research in and find games that are similar to them, maybe even better in some respects, they would rather moan online about how their favorite series has changed/declined in quality then seek out of alternatives. If more people did this there would be more buzz about monster collectors.

What I'm saying is there needs to be a Stardew Valley scenario that revitalizes and enriches the genre, and gets other devs to be inspired and jump on that train, before that game there weren't any other farm sims, now go to any article on this site and you'll see people disgruntled by how many there are.

The Pokemon juggernaut is just too big to fail. Even if they release sub-par games, they are still better than the next competitor and release far faster (1 new game a year)

I'm kinda sad Yo-Kai Watch didn't really pick up in the West like it did in Japan. The games are surprisingly a lot of fun and packed with content, especially Yo-Kai Watch 3. It's similar to Pokemon but still feels like it has its own identity. I find Temtem to be too much of a straight clone.

Why does it NEED a rival?

Every time a rival comes along it dies quickly.
Youkai Watch
Conception
Digi Mon
Cardcaptur Sakura
You Gi Oh

Pretty sure I spelt some wrong, pretty sure I don't care.

It has to be close enough to Pokemon that you see it as competition but different enough that it’s not just Pokemon and also clearly better? That’s a tough market space to be in.

I expect something fresh and indie (like Cassette Beasts) to come along and offer serious alternative choices. Kids who grew up on Pokemon are making games now. Buy them! Also as a journalist use your voice to promote indies and address publishing nonsense like companies deciding on preorders alone whether a game is a success as well as call Nintendo/GameFreak out for bad practices.

Nothing will be a rival to Pokemon, just like nothing can be a rival to Mario Kart or Smash Bros.(despite many trying).

There can definitely be solid alternatives though. SMT is a fantastic series, I strongly recommend SMT V. Also, hopefully the rumors of the SMT IV duology ported to Switch is true.

How popular are monster collecting games, actually? Sometimes I think Pokemon is just an extremely popular example of a niche genre. Seriously, what percentage of people who bought games like SMT V or Monster hunter stories 2, are pokemon fans? I suspect it's high. So perhaps it's just pokemon fans buying other Mon games (personally, i bought those 2, digimon survive, Ni no kuni, and still bought Pokemon games).

The problem with a killer game is that, nowadays, there is little stopping people from buying both (the would-be killer and the killed). So now, If a game flops its typically by its own merit (or lack-off) not simply because its competition was better. For example: Where are all the monster rancher fans and how many bought the switch port? or how many digimon fans bought Survive or the digimon world port? Did Pikachu steal your wallets?

As many points are made about the gameplay, the difference maker will be the characters. Fewer and fewer players genuinely enjoy the moment to moment gameplay of the Pokémon games, it is merely a vehicle for another few hours to spend with old favorite characters like Mewtwo, Charizard, etc. For any company to succeed in offering a competitive alternative to the once great Pokémon IP, rather than introducing creatures that can be captured and battled with to merely mimic what has been done before, a game would need to innovate with creatures that are characters first.

I really hope Monster Hunter Stories 3 happens...or at least DLC or an expansion for 2, no idea why it didn't get any. The first game got free dlc, and of course it never came to the western version, go figure.

I know who can take on Pokemon and provide serious competition. A little game called "Nexomon" and "Nexomon Extinction"
Nexomon is a monster catching game almost identical to Pokemon, it was originally a mobile game that got ported for tye Switch and PlayStation.

There are already some monster taking games after Pokemon.
These are the games.

Yokai Watch
Nexomon + Nexomon Extinction
World of Final Fantasy MAXIMA

These comments that imply not a single IP can rival Pokemon, have obviously never heard of or played "Nexomon" and "Nexomon Extinction"

@Nikki_boagreis
Hoho...
Nexomon
I have Nexomon + Nexomon Extinction on PS4 and those are pretty good monster taming games despite in HD 2D graphics.

Biggest entertainment franchise in the history of humans needs a rival. Ok. How exactly?

Pokemon's biggest rival is definitely the Legend of Zelda, instead of collecting monsters, you collect other things. Pokemon's rival doesn't had to be about collecting monsters ya know. It just had to be a game about collecting things and could sell as much as Pokemon.

Yeah as folks have already stated, unfortunately it's just really tough to rival this series when so many are attached to this series because of the creatures themselves. It's part of the reason why I love(d) the series as much as I do (did) anyway, and it's also a good reason why it's so hard for me to step into other games that try to compete with Pokémon.

That said, it's probably no secret here how much I've come to dislike present day Pokémon. It's embarrassingly bad and if it wasn't for the Pokémon branding, these games would have been shut down by players very quickly because of the poor quality. Yet because of said Pokémon branding, these games sell like hotcakes despite that poor quality.

I'm still convinced they could place whatever dirty object they could find on store shelves and sell it in stores so long as it has a neat little Pokémon flag sticking out of it. Collector's edition, yo.

@Yosher You say that but the Pokémon spin-offs don't even come close to mainline sales. As for other products, I've seen stuff like the Mega Construx and books gather dust on shelves.

This belief that anything tied to the Pokémon brand will automatically sell is ridiculous. Most of it does sell because they are things that fans genuinely want; like plushies, cards, etc.

"Time to steal some of Pikachu's pie"

... really? The pun "steal some of Pikachu's Thunder" was RIGHT THERE! For shame.

There have been some great alternatives such as Digimon, Yo kai watch, Dragon Quest Monsters, Temtem and World of Final Fantasy which are great fillers in between the main pokemon releases. But they are few and hardly release that often if at all anymore. Whilst none of them will rival pokemon in terms of popularity or sales they do rival pokemon in terms of better gameplay.

SEGA needs to bring back Chao in a big bad way.

@Thief
Aside from the spin-offs, even the "third versions" sell much fewer copies than the initial versions. Still high numbers relative to other franchises.

@MrRusty
The last thing pokemon needs is another Kanto remake.

I think Gamefreak just need to take a break from making these main games, during the DS/3DS/Wii we had loads of spin offs that changed up the gameplay, we had the nobunaga strategy game, the musou style toy game (forgot its name), Pokémon ranger, Pokémon mystery dungeon, Pokemon Pikachu's Adventure, Detective Pikachu, Pokémon Dash, Pokémon art Academy and Pokken Tournament.

But these last few years all we get outside of the main series are DLC and spin offs with the same formula such as Legends Arceus and Let's go Eevee/Pikachu albeit just a different catch method, a remake of Diamond/Pearl and an old Mystery Dungeon Game, there's no variety.

They need to make more spin offs otherwise the brand is going to get stale fast.

I suppose the writer omitted the Digimon games due to target audience…?

I’m sure Bandi Namco can come up with another IP also.

Mainline Pokemon is lightning in a bottle. It appeals universally to every generation of child. It's hard to rival something with such broad appeal. Best you can do is copy it's homework and hope folk don't realise. If it's a big ip already (like Final Fantasy) then it would be recognised as a spin off, not a rival to Pokemon. If it's a new ip, then it's going to take a theme that resonates with kids (and that's much harder to pull off...but probably where the money is.) Pokemon's strength is it's clarity in game design. Something that gets lost with too much narrative or grand design or licensing. Similar to Splatoon and Foamstars. The latter looks like a convoluted mess trying too hard to emulate something that had no peer.

I dunno, maybe Gamefreak should make a new mainline series that's more advanced, that runs along side the usual one.

The only thing I know for a fact - Square Enix is not capable of rivaling Pokemon in any capacity.

@GrailUK
Yokai Watch and Nexomon are already direct rivals of Pokemon games, but peoples just still really don't want to open their mind.

Persona is the best Pokemon clone and more than that

@Anti-Matter That's the challenge facing competitors though, isn't it. If someone asks what Pokemon is about, they describe at length the principles of the game. If anyone asks what Yokai Watch is about,. they say 'it's Pokemon with ghosts.' heck, that's even what some reviewers would say. It's difficult. You need a hook. Like, umm, Dark Souls for example. Not the first third person hack em up ever, but the most difficult. So maybe someone needs to make a super hard pokemon-like with perma death etc.

Pokemon has been a disgrace for a long time now.

Meanwhile, I will join others in the sentiment that Nexomon is more than a valid rival for Pokemon. For me, it has straight up replaced it.

Nexomon, and it's sequel Nexomon: Extinction are both are available on modern gaming systems. It seems like they've had at least moderate success too, as both games got post-game expansions, and a third game is already confirmed to be in the works.

@GrailUK
I think to see myself prefer playing 3rd party games than 1st party games have some benefit.
I became more open with other games whether they are the clones or original ideas.
Sometimes I found the clones have better gameplay than the original but it seems they are oftenly get overshadowed by the thing called popularity.
Popularity is a blind for almost everybody.
I'm very sure some of the Pokemon fans really refuse to play Pokemon clones because they still think Pokemon brand is way superior than the clones.
They really hard to open their mind and willing to try the clones then give fair judgement between Pokemon games and the clones.
And some of Pokemon fans are really stuck on 1st party games without ever trying 3rd party games because of "too cool to try other things" mindset.

@greengecko007
Nexomon third games?! 😲

I mean there have been attempts to rival Pokémon, but none of them stuck. Same way that there have been attempts at a “Smash killer,” but none of them have really taken off either. Pokémon is just too dominant and it’s had 20+ years of building a fanbase and establishing brand recognition that I doubt it’ll lose its top spot anytime soon.

We need to stop trying to hype up every other monster collector that isn't pokemon as a "rival" or "killer" it's getting very old.
Pokemon at this point is way bigger than any game that'll come out and is now the biggest media franchise in the world, obviously no other will ever be big enough to take on it, trying to frame other "competitors" is just pure stupidity and delusion that spawns pointless articles like this one.

What we should we hoping is that the many alternatives to pokemon turn out to be good games instead of trying to paint them as something they're not.

@Anti-Matter I mean it’s partly popularity but it’s also that the average gamer only has so much time and money they can spend on gaming, so why risk wasting some of that on an unknown versus the series they’ve been playing for years?

Pokémon knows this too, that’s why they’re constantly releasing games, spin-offs, and hosting competitions and events. They don’t want to give you time to look at or consider an alternative.

I thought it's rival was digimon?

@Waluigi451 Good points.

@CharlieGirl Quite true

@dimi Persona is nothing like Pokémon, especially given that SMT literally had a Pokémon clone spinoff.

@Nanami_Ataraxia Harvest Moon and Farmville

I beat both Nexomon and Coromon but neither really "rival" Pokemon for me. Still good games that are worth playing though. (Nexomon is the better of the two IMHO).

I also beat Yokai Watch and it's really good too...still not as good as Pokemon IMHO. It's a shame you can't get the 3DS games digitally anymore though, physical copies are like $200.

@KryptoniteKrunch Nintendo took a very long time to dip its toes into the fighting genre.

The issue with trying to challenge Pokemon is nearly every pretender lacks the one thing Pokemon has and that's the appeal of the Monsters themselves. Pokemon is far bigger then the just the games and a big reason the likes of Pikachu and Charizard are so popular and well known is because of the Anime, Charizard also was that one PM card we all really wanted back in the day. Pokemon is not just a VG its a massive brand and every single PM transcends the games so when people play a PM game its less the gameplay they're in for and more the PM themselves. Temtem might do a lot of things better but its monsters are never going to draw in people because they are pretty exclusive to the game, i mean i was in love with the PM anime and the TCG before i even touched the games so a big reason i wanted to play the games was because i was already a fan something Temtem will never have with players. Honestly this is why i love MH Stories, because i'm already a big MH fan the appeal of catching my very own pet Nerg or Rath is highly appealing but of course for that to work you need to be a MH fan already. Nothing can rival Pokemon, Digimon came closest (and anime wise was and is far better) but it could never keep pace with PM and it lacked a good enough game to even pose a minor threat to PM.

What Pokémon needs to do on switch is bring back Soul Silver & Heart Gold and a pokewalker accessory like we had on DS. What ever happened to innovation? Nintendo just sticks with the same old boring formula now and never does anything fun anymore.

@mariomaster96 Technical issues aside S/V are the best Pokemon games since Gen 5 in my opinion. They have a great story, great characters, a great rival, great selection of new PM with some instant classics and a pretty good open world with Pokemon that actually feel somewhat alive in it. If the technical state was better and it had better visuals i bet nearly everyone would be saying its one of the best entries.

@Kiyata Innovation? S/V was the biggest shake up in a very long time. Nintendo never does anything fun anymore? I guess you never played TotK, Kirby, Xenoblade 3 and Metroid Dread.

What Pokémon needs is for Nintendo to take the reins and show Game Freak how it's done.

Pokemon is Pokemon, I don't think anything can really compete with it. Having said that, I enjoy the heck out of the two Nexomon games and would love to see a third installment.

@Waluigi451
Maybe I have different experience in gaming.
Even the popular games like Pokemon and despite I have quite a lot of them on 3DS and Switch, but I still prefer Yokai Watch 3 on 3DS as the best experience of monster taming game. I have played for more than 210 hours for Yokai Watch 3 and still keep playing it while for Pokemon games, I rarely touch them once I finished the storyline.

Yes, some of the Pokemon design are good enough for me but my heart said in different way. The gameplay of Yokai Watch games despite I cannot take control of them directly but I found it was quite interesting for me somehow. Take a note, I didn't even have any interest with Yokai Watch games before until I bought the first Yokai Watch on 3DS and Yokai Watch 3 Tempura, I started to enjoy the games.

I saw Level-5 was really hard to promote their Yokai Watch franchise in anime, merchandise, toys, manga, spin off, even the skin of bullet train in Japan. But it still get overshadowed by Pokemon popularity just because there are too many mainstream peoples still hard to open their mind.

I knew the underrated things will be always underrated, but it doesn't matter for me.
In my world, what is too popular is the things that I have less impression and vice versa.
I appreciate more the underrated things as long they have some hidden gems quality and I claimed them even better than the too popular things.
Guess my world is full of beautiful underrated things.

I don’t think they need a rival right now what they need is a breather. They’ve taken a major step forward. They’ve ventured into open world and now just need to nail a new amazing story and build upon the existing world. Like TOTK feels more like and upgrade to BOTW and is still amazing.

I haven’t played many competitors other than Digimon but key missing elements are no carrying monsters between new games, names of the monsters tend to be poor and I know the names of most of the Pokemon so don’t want to learn loads of new ones for a new franchise

I honestly saw Xenoblade 2 as a Waifu Pokemon game. I don’t need a load of new monsters. Give me 15 or so, objectives to power them up, and some background story to build a connection with the mons and I’d be happy.

@Spider-Kev Yugioh was never a rival though to PM and its still going strong now and celebrating its 25th anniversary. Its anime is still going strong, Master Duel is a big hit on consoles and Steam, Duel Links is big on mobile and the actual card game is one of the biggest most popular card games out there and up there with both Magic and PM.

I think if anyone wants to create something that competes with Nintendo's biggest brands (Pokemon, Smash Bros., etc.), they need to keep a tight rein on their social media. Few things poison the pot like someone, official or not, mouthing off about how "THIS IS THE 'X' KILLER! WE'VE GOT WHAT NINTENDO DOESN'T HAVE! NINTENDO FANBOYS IN SHAMBLES!" Let the product's quality speak for itself.

There's an entire class of influencers and streamers whose MO is "I fell in love with this Nintendo product from the SNES/64/Gamecube era, but then I fell out of love with it, and I will now spend two hours breaking down how each and every one of the newer entries is horrible." Trying to pander to this class is a losing bet, as games like TemTem and Nickelodeon All-Star Battle have found out the hard way. They will invariably leave once the vicarious thrill of poking the biggest dog on the block in the eye fades.

In short, Nintendo needs competition. But don't directly advertise your product as Nintendo competition, as it's counterproductive.

Scarlet and Violet might have their fair share of flaws, but calling them inferior to Sword and Shield is laughable. Those games looked just as bad and ran even worse, and the only locations in them I'd call well-designed were the DLC areas and maybe a couple towns. S/V's towns are less interesting overall, but the actual world is much more fun to explore. I'd go as far as saying I prefer its labyrinthian design to the endless rolling hills and plains you get in most open worlds. The pokemon themselves as well as the human character models are also massively improved over the last few games, questionable fashion and uncomfortably humanoid starters aside. They're generally sharper, more detailed, and better animated than in previous entries. The games' technical issues are admittedly unacceptable for a franchise like Pokemon, and I'd still like to see the return of the full Pokedex and dungeon-esque gyms and evil headquarters, but I also still think there's a healthy amount of creativity and fun hiding under all of S/V's rough edges.

I’m really happy DQ monsters is getting a revival. I played the crap out of the first one on Game Boy Color.

That said, DQM is a very different game to Pokémon. I always viewed it as “what if the breeding mechanic in Gold/Silver was made the central focus of the game and had more depth than a PC strategy game?”

The game was super complex but very rewarding once you learned its systems. I hope the revival keeps that deep breeding mechanic that made the first stand out against Pokemon.

@eaglebob345 Fortunately Game Freak never made the mistake of selling out to another company or going public, so this bizarre fantasy of someone doing a hostile takeover of Pokémon will not come true.

@GrailUK I think you touched upon something (or one of the things) that has made Pokémon stand the test of time. It’s simplicity in its core gameplay. Not counting all of the tweaks and gimmicks introduced along the way, its gameplay is still the same, simple model at its core. And it’s gameplay that anyone can pick up, not need too much handholding to learn and have some measure of success. I remember playing a Yo Kai demo years ago and it was not at all easy to grasp. I’m sure with more time, I’d probably would have figured it out. But where Pokémon’s gameplay is immediately apparent from the start, this wasn’t.

The other thing I always point out (and this may sound silly) is just having place in people’s consciousness, even when they don’t necessarily consider themselves Pokémon fans in any respect. The best example is the anime. And it isn’t so much the anime content wise. I’m referring to the original theme song. Again,it might Sou like a silly notion and shouldn’t have any bearing on the popularity of the franchise. But put that theme song in a room full of people and it’s almost a given anyone 40 and under will probably know the theme song. Will know the the theme song from the opening bars. That, to me, is a sign of a franchise that has cemented its place in pop culture history.

Edit: I also think Pokémon is helped by being almost entirely focused to and exclusive to one name: Nintendo. Say what you want about the quality of the games. At least it has that tight focus on that the games aren’t multi platform and aren’t spreading themselves all over the place. I think any rival needs to have a developer that it’s anchored to

If only reviewers were more critical of clear laziness. Nope, NL gonna sing Pokémon praise bc Nintendough.

@SteamEngenius They gave it a 7. Which for a Nintendo game to NL is the equivalent of a 4.They gave SMB movie a 6. Which is like a 2.

Shin Megami Tensei always scratched the itch that Pokemon couldn't, especially with the difficulty and mature story and themes. It never replaced Pokemon though, Pokemon just has that special X factor that's hard to explain. Simple on surface and complex underneath comes to mind when it comes to battle mechanics in Pokemon...

... even as a big Pokemon fan myself, I felt very disappointed S/V with all it's several awful glitches and awful tera raids ATB +lag. Legends Arceus was such a fricken blast, the absolute best thing since the good ol days of Pokemon for me, but they knocked it out of the park only to whiff immediately after.

It makes me sad that neither the article nor a single comment here mentions Monster Sanctuary and its upcoming follow-up Aethermancer.

To be able to 'compete' with Pokemon you need to incorporate monster catching/battling in a different way to it. Monster Sanctuary is the only game thus far to do that successfully and satisfyingly.

Hopefully Aethermancer will make more people sit up and take notice.

I adore the Monster Hunter Stories games, they deserve more success.

@Spider-Kev

It needs a rival to keep the developers honest.
Without a significant rival they can get away with continuing to pump out shoddy games.

To be honest it's the worst time to call Pokemon stagnant now when its changing a lot. Pokemon GO, Sun/Moon stripping away the gym formula, Pokemon Legends Arceus introducing Action elements in sandbox open maps and Scarlet/Violet going open world w/ three story threads culminating in an endgame.

Their competition often doesn't even break away from the standard JRPG formula which is even older and more derivative than Pokemon, or they copy Pokemons gen 1-6 structure, which is hardly competing.Since when has any game rivalled another by riding its coattails?

The issue with this article is regardless of any flaws of the latest Pokemon games the rest of the industry wouldn't actually be bold enough to make the changes Gamefreak is to Pokemon is unless it's a safe proven formula.

Pokemon is succeeding more despite reviews because they're successfully attracting new players with their newer concepts and ideas. Three of my co-workers at my last job who had kids ranging from 6-14 all independently wanted a new Switch for Pokemon Scarlet & Violet.

I can imagine an alternative timeline where they continue their direction pre-Sun/Moon, dont make Pokemon GO, Legends Arceus and LGPE dont exist. Nintendolife awards hypothetical Gen 8&9 a 9/10 for playing it safe and being the same, with the series still not break through the 15-17million barrier they were stuck in from GBA to 3DS due to not attracting new players.

@HeadPirate

As the article indicates, Pokemon needs a rival, not neccessairly a replacement.

https://blog.gitnux.com/coke-vs-pepsi-statistics/#:~:text=Which%20brand%20currently%20dominates%20the,a%20share%20of%20approximately%2020.5%25.

If a series like Monster Hunter Stories could get anywhere near the success of Pepsi in comparison to Coke, they'd be doing pretty damn well and might just keep Game Freak on their toes.

@UmbreonsPapa I have an occassional intelligent moment, occassionally lol. (I would be careful, mind. Clarity isn't the same as simple.)

@ComfyAko Yup. Pokemon is like Sonic. Anyone can make a fast moving animal as a game mascot. But they will never be Sonic. Pokemon is just like that now. Unfortunately, the rate of games coming out and quality is going in the direction of Sonic. Nintendo needs to take their time.

@Dr_Lugae You are right. I think people are just overwhelmed by the rate of games and how the progression of Arceus to Scarlet/Violet was a one step forward two steps back kind of thing.

@BodkinDQ I think Arceus and Scarlet/Violet were made back to back. There was not time to assess what worked and what did not.

Actually now that I think about it. The reason Pokémon has so many merchandise is probably so that nobody can be able to properly compete with it. So a game may sell more then Pokémon (pffft yeah right) but Pokémon will be making more money because of things like plush and card sales leaving the monster collecting scene to have no chance on actual competing. Say what you will about game freak but they’re straight up evil genius’s

This is brilliant! I think people will eventually burn them so bad they need to do something. But it's baffling people keep buying these!

(It also makes me scared for other beloved series. )

@Greatluigi

It's not a new strategy, Earthworm Jim was cynically created with a cartoon and a toy range at the same time as the game.

@MysteryCupofJoe

I don't think they tried to compete on the speed front, but Crash Bandicoot clearly tried to rival Sonic regarding 90s attitude, and was quite successful at it.

@Fizza Totally agree.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Yo-kai Watch games on the Nintendo 3DS and it's in fact one of the only reasons I still keep my 3DS console.
So I can keep playing them in the future, since it's pretty much out of the question to expect an english port of these games to the Switch.

The Digimon Story games are also amazing. I really enjoyed Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth !
It's a real gem of a game in my opinion.

@MysteryCupofJoe Exactly.

I agree on both accounts. Pokemon are too recognizable for gamefreak to feel threatened, and it's sadly the same state as Sonic.

Although I think that in Sonic's case, it's just that people fell in love in the first games, but then SEGA didn't know how to transfer the mechanics to the new environements. SEGA has other games (like Yakuza) and they seem to be handling them much better.

In case of Pokemon, they did many things right. Open world is pretty good, the storylines were absolutely great, pokemon design is not half bad, etc. It's just that gamefreak devs are very... technologically impaired? For a lack of better words.

Honestly? Probably Microsoft or Epic. Someone who can hire a dev to create a competent Pokemon rival, invest in some promotional material like a tiktok webseries or youtube vids and throw the game on every platform other than Switch (with mobile being the priority). Make the game cheap and appealing, leave microtransactions out of it (at least until it gets enough footing) to make it more appealing to parents as well and you have a shot.

@Uncle_Franklin

I think what you're reading into that data isn't really applicable. This isn't about Pepsi, a soft drink that has 100 years to build it's brand and market share continuing it's competition with Coca Cola. That would be the case if we were talking about some already established juggernaut IP in the monster collection genre that was taking market share from Pokémon and discussing it's possible for that market share to grown.

We're not doing that. We're asking if a game could be made, right now, that would in any meaningful way impact Pokémon's 99.lotsof9s% market share in the genre, and if any IP from a gaming company is big enough to meaningfully stand up to the Pokémon brand to the point where TPC would be forced to rethink their operations.

The Coke analogy comes from the fact that it's the 8th most valuable company in the world with a value of 68 billion. That level of global presence mean it doesn't need to make a better soft drink then Pepsi, and isn't at all concerned with doing so. Coke literally keeps Pepsi out of counties by buying up all the water. It stops Pepsi from building competing plants by buying up all the steel. It kept Pepsi out of a large part of India by buying out every logistics company and controlling transpiration (Pepsi lost close to a billion dollars because they build a bottling and distribution plant that they couldn't supply or move product from) . That's the type of thing you can do when you are that rich and that established.

If CAPCOM declared it was going to complete with Pokémon, would Pokémon react by ensuing a higher quality product? Or would they look at the fact that ALL of CAPCOM ... Street Fighter, Megaman, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, ect, has produced $40 billion less revenue then JUST Pokémon in the same time period of 30 years and absolutely obliterate them with marketing, strategic positioning, and brand strength?

Sure, if Monster Hunter Stories COULD get to a coke vs. Pepsi position, that would be great. But the point is they can't. All of Monster Hunter has sold around 90 million units over 52 games. Pokémon has sold 440 million units. Pokémon scarlet and violet outsold the "Stories" series total sales.

in 3 days.

I also don't think there is a lot of cross over in Monster Hunter and Pokémon fans. Even Stories is insanely more detailed and complex then Pokémon, so I think growing the Strength of the Monster Hunter brand is great for CAPCOM, but TPC couldn't care less. You would need a brand that targets the same demographic of 40 year old's that like to pretend they bought it for their children for them to notice.

As I joked, there are only two gaming IPs on earth that have the brand recognition to put out a new "monster collection" game and hope to compete with Pokémon. Mario, and Splatoon. So it's simply not viable that Pokémon will face meaningful competition.

I don’t know how the Pokémon devs could be dragged off their profit bubbles and be forced to improve the games for today’s standards, but Dragon Quest Monsters will never challenge Pokémon, and neither boycotting, because Pokémon fans would rather look the other way and lash out at the criticism itself than calling for boycott and change. I think we’re doomed with subpar releases for the for foreseeable future.

@HeadPirate

"I think what you're reading into that data isn't really applicable."

I quite agree, and that is the major flaw with your original comparison.
One is a drinks company with a recipe that doesn't need to change (though they have done so unsuccessfully), and the other is a company making an evolving (excuse the pun) game series.
One is a company that has an established major rival, the other lacks a rival as the article elucidates.

@Tempestryke
Obviously Harvest Moon started it, I thought that was implied lol
I wouldn't count Farmville as one because it was more of an app then it is a game.

@Kiyata Why would they create another PokéWalker when they could just as easily make a phone app that does the same thing?

@Nanami_Ataraxia My apologies

@Kiyata didn't they have something sort of similar with let's go?

@Alopex And as others have stated, also form a multi pronged attack with toys, cards, merchandise, shows, etc.

Why are people bashing on Nintendo about pokemon instead of Gamefreak?

I remember at one point Yokai Watch seemed like it could have been a good rival.

I can safely say I'm more excited about dragon quest monsters than Pokemon at this point. ( As my unopened copy of scarlet continues to collect dust.)

@Aronin Yokai Watch was definitely a potential rival in Japan, but not America. It just didn’t catch on in the West.

My guess is that the whole concept is too Japanese for Western audiences, specifically kids. Where Pokémon are unique looking creatures that are universal, Yokai were too deeply rooted in Japanese mythology. I just don’t think the concept connected to western kids. I also don’t think it helped that they never launched a game on the Switch in the West.

Allow me to introduce the hole in the wall restaurant theorem
Basically when a franchise or restaurant expands to the point where the quality takes a massive hit, new competitors fill the void. So as long as Pokemon keeps this downward curve there will eventually be a competitor, it just will take time.

@ComfyAko Yeah. They did mention that 3D would be hard for them.
For Scarlet and Violet, I wanted the land to glitch out at times to show a glimpse of the past or future to stay in tune with the theme. That would have been awesome and would have alluded to the professors more as you reached them at the end.

@HeadPirate Yeah I agree also to put it into perspective on Switch the 5 mainline Pokemon games and remakes have done about 92million.
Pokemon is only widening the gap of any of the other entire franchises mentioned here

Meanwhile Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest are slowing, increasing development time and stagnant or minimal increases in sales (e.g. FF7Remake has double the development time of the original full game to remake just prologue of the original story, with half the sales). Or Digimon a decrease in sales (6 years between Cyber Sleuth Hackers Memory and Survive to sell 500k copies despite not even being AAA).

To rival something you need to continually respond and react to the rival or the market. When Pokemon GO blew up gamefreak followed up with LGPE in 2 years to great success even for Pokemon. You'd never expect SE to be able to respond that quickly with FF because it takes them atleast half a decade between announcement and release.

The reality of AAA or even AA development is that even if a rival game did appear with something Pokemon needed to incorporate, Pokemon probably would have it within a year or two (how quickly they added the Rotom Dex after Yo-Kai Watch). The reverse wouldn't be true, I think SE's biggest franchise Final Fantasy would sooner crash under the weight of its owning creeping development scope and costs than them produce a series that would rival Pokemon and continually react and pressure them.

The main competitor is and always will be digimon.

That Sham Hatwich wiki article is pure gold!

Similar swine:
Ham shamwitch
Hat hamwitch
Sham hamwitch

They really took that wordplay and ran with it. And in Japanese it's just bigguhatto, I'm dying!

@mariomaster96 I agree 100%. I played S/V before Sw/Sh and I was extremely underwhelmed at the content of the latter. S/V immersed me in the Pokemon world (not as much as PLA, but close) and I felt I really went on an adventure. Sw/Sh felt like a spin-off game with how short they were and how little actually happened. I kept expecting there to be a factory off the beaten path or SOMETHING for me to discover and there was almost 0 things that I wasn't forced through as part of the main storyline. The Gen1 game had more surprises than Sw/Sh.

I feel that after three 3D games where people have complained about the graphics, Pokemon needs to stop trying and go back to 2D graphics. Focus on being great at something else.