It’s fascinating to see how much the JRPG genre has changed over the years, as countless new studios and designers have come up with a seemingly bottomless amount of ways to riff on battle systems, narrative styles, and world designs. In many ways, one could say that a JRPG is judged by how well it subverts genre expectations, but one series is seemingly exempt from this push for innovation: Dragon Quest. As the de facto godfather of the whole genre, Dragon Quest has remained staunchly conservative over the decades in how it adheres to genre conventions, offering up what many could say is the ‘purest’ take on a JRPG.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age doesn’t do much to reinvent the wheel, then. Especially given the diverse range of other modern RPGs available on the Switch, Dragon Quest is a rather fascinating outlier in how old-school it feels. The narrative is set in a high fantasy world, centered around a chosen hero of light who alone has the power to defeat an ancient, dark evil. The combat system is based on straight, no-frills turn-based battling. Your party levels up via a linear leveling system, with a minimal amount of customization available to differentiate them. Viewing it from a purely objective standpoint, it would be easy to dismiss Dragon Quest XI as a relic of bygone times, but to do so would be to miss out on one of the greatest RPGs of this generation. It may not have much in the way of innovative mechanics, but Dragon Quest XI consistently demonstrates an impressive mastery and control in nearly every aspect of its experience, reminding us time and again just how this series has remained such a juggernaut for so many decades.
As mentioned above, the narrative is just about as straightforward as you can imagine. You—the silent, nameless hero—grow up in the sleepy and pleasant village of Cobblestone, unaware that you’re the lost son of royalty who hid you away there as an infant. Not soon after partaking in a 'rite of passage' celebration, it’s revealed that you’re the Luminary, a reincarnation of a fabled hero who is destined to do battle with the mysterious Dark One. Armed with this knowledge, you set out on a sweeping adventure across the land of Erdrea to gather a team and learn more about your past, while also helping out whomever you can along the way. In raw terms, this narrative doesn’t prove to be terribly interesting, but what saves it in the end is the fantastic pacing and the interesting cast of characters that you build as the hours roll by.
Although there is always the looming threat of your impending battle, Dragon Quest XI is more a collection of self-contained chapters that all ultimately pay into the larger story. When you arrive in a new town, there’s usually a small conflict or sub-narrative that you get caught up in which immediately demands the next few hours of your attention. For example, in a memorable early instance, your hero is asked to assist a cowardly prince in fulfilling the high expectations put on him by the king. After winning a horse race for him, the king is so pleased by the performance that he asks his son to go out and subdue a horrifying beast that’s been terrorizing the town. Not all of these little sub-narratives are as compelling or emotionally gripping as the next, but we rather enjoyed the diversity of experiences that they offer, particularly in how they deepen your connection to the world of Erdrea. Towns are elevated from being simple stops along your journey to meaningful and memorable landmarks that help to make the adventure feel that much grander. It helps, too, that plot twists are thrown in so liberally, with many seemingly solved conflicts suddenly taking an unexpected left turn that launches the team into another dungeon or boss fight.
Dragon Quest XI features an awfully substantial story, too, with a runtime that can easily run into the triple digits if you want to see everything on offer. One would think that such a length would become exhausting after a certain point, but your attention is anchored by an ever-changing pace dictated by all the sub-narratives and the charm offered up by your varied cast of party members. Whether it be a vaguely feminine male circus performer, or a set of twin sisters with polar opposite personalities, each one of your party members has something unique to bring to the table and their personalities are fleshed out to a satisfying degree as you get to know them better through all the small, heartfelt interactions along the way. By the end of the journey, you’ll no doubt find that you’ve developed a sort of intimate connection with this cast, which stands as a testament to the quality of writing from the localisation team. Dragon Quest XI may not be pushing the boundaries of storytelling in JRPGs, but it’s such a well-paced and excellently written adventure that you’ll hardly be aware of the dozens of hours rolling by.
As a traditional JRPG, Dragon Quest XI follows the same tried and tested loop of exploring a vast overworld, visiting towns along the way, and usually delving into a dungeon or two not far from each town. In a rather bold move, the overworld is designed in a relatively linear fashion, wherein isolated zones are segmented from each other via brief loading screens. Though you are, for the most part, kept on a reasonably straight track to carry you through the story, it never feels as restrictive as, say Final Fantasy XIII. Each zone has a substantial amount of ground to cover, packed with hidden treasure, oodles of enemy mobs, and NPCs that offer up helpful side-quests. It’s a fine balance, too, as it never feels like you’re tripping over another collectable every three steps, but neither does it feel like any of these areas are too empty. And though the world is sprawling, it remains nicely traversable by the inclusion of mounts and fast travel points to get you between destinations quickly.
Combat unfolds in a straightforward turn-based set up, though it blessedly isn’t marred by random encounters. Enemies wander about the overworld itching for a fight and will attack you if you get to close, but you can preempt the battle by swiping at them early to get in some extra damage on the first turn. Outside of boss battles, which require a little more strategy, most battles are admittedly rather mindless, but this is where the robust quality of life features of Dragon Quest XI shine brightly. Via an easily accessible menu, you can set the behavior of each member of the party to automatically fulfil certain roles, removing the need for you to actively order each character to act each turn. In our experience, the AI does a great job of managing resources well and fulfilling the roles it needs to, which makes cutting through those fodder enemies that much less of a hassle. This is made even better, then, by the introduction of multiple different battle speeds. To cut down on grinding even more, there’s an option to increase the overall pace of a battle by up to three times, effectively making encounters only a few seconds long before you’re back on the road. While it may be true that a more directly engaging battle system could’ve made for much more interesting moment-to-moment gameplay, Dragon Quest XI offers up a suitable compromise in how it lets you have as much or as little control (or as many battles) as you want.
Boss battles naturally push the limits of the combat system, however, and this is where the more strategic side of combat is brought out. After characters have dealt or received enough damage, they’ll become ‘Pepped Up’, which boosts several of their stats and turns them into a temporary powerhouse. This state only lasts for a few turns, but it can be ended whenever you choose via usage of a Pep Power, which acts as a limit break style super attack that can drastically alter the course of battle. We rather enjoyed the additional layer of strategy offered up by this Pep system, and though it really only has reasonable usage in a boss encounter, it nonetheless introduces a more varied gameplay style to the otherwise rote cycle of taking turns hitting each other until either you or the enemy goes down.
After felling enemies, your party is then awarded with gold for shopping and experience to build up their levels. You don’t have much control over the rate of how you acquire these materials, but you do have more agency with how you distribute skill points after each character levels up. Everyone has a multifaceted skill tree that allows them to specialize in different roles and weapon types, comprised of a series of interconnected hexagons that each represent another buff. As you’d expect, all the really good stat jumps and abilities are located at the ends of branches, so you have to invest a fair bit into a path to reach them, but this introduces interesting questions the player must answer. It may be in your best interest to build towards those deeper buffs, but you could also instead invest those surplus skill points into other, cheaper abilities on other branches of the skill tree to round out a character more. There’s not a ton of decision making that has to go into skill trees—and you do have the ability to re-spec (for a fee) if you’d like—but we rather enjoyed the light specialization options that they offer up, giving you just enough choice that investing points feels suitably important.
To further help with character customization, you’re given an item relatively early-on called the ‘Fun-Size Forge’ which allows you to create and rework weapons and armor for the team. New recipes are introduced at a relatively brisk pace via sidequests and reading books in towns, which deepen the range of items your hero can make. When using the forge, a fun little mini game is played in which you have to manage limited ‘Focus’ resources to try and get various gauges into narrow zones; the closer you get to the middle of each zone, the more ‘perfect’ the item will turn out. Loot that you naturally find in the overworld and in shops is certainly strong, but this forge is your ticket to an impeccably buffed up and effective team. It’s not easy to get items to that coveted ‘+3’ status, either, and considering how limited resources are for crafting, the Fun-Size Forge proves to be an engaging, ongoing challenge that helps to break up the flow of gameplay.
In case you haven’t inferred it yet from the language of this review, Dragon Quest XI isn’t exactly a difficult game. In fact, it’s rather devoid of challenge if you go even a little bit beyond merely coasting from plot point to point. Those of you looking for a challenge, however, can raise the stakes more when starting a save file by the usage of “Draconian Quest” settings, which tune various parameters to make the game harder. You can do things like turn off the option to buy things from shops or have your team sometimes not act when you tell them to, and if you dare to turn all the modes on, it makes for a deliciously punishing experience. The key thing, however, is that these features have to be enabled from the very start of your file; though they can later be turned off one by one in a church if you want, they can never be re-enabled again. In general, we would’ve liked Dragon Quest XI to be a little more challenging in its ‘base’ state, but the introduction of Draconian Quest is a fitting compromise for those who need a game with teeth.
The main art for Dragon Quest XI was handled by none other than the legendary Akira Toriyama, and his signature art style shines through in nearly every character and monster design present. Big, expressive eyes and spiky hairstyles are the norm here, and there’s something so be said about how overwhelmingly ‘friendly’ these designs make the world feel; even the monsters and evil characters have a certain cuddly quality to them that almost makes you feel bad fighting them. Character designs aside, the world itself is cast in a bright, optimistic, and almost Ghibli-like tone, characterized by plenty of sunlight, bright colors, and diverse landscapes. It looks utterly fantastic whether you’re playing docked or handheld, though we do feel it bears mentioning that performance issues arise every now and then. There’s nothing game breaking here, but the occasional drop in framerate, pop-in texture, or juddering shadow indicate that the Switch hardware is wheezing as it runs this game. Those of you that expect a flawless, silky experience will be disappointed, but we’d like to reiterate that the performance issues are minor at their very worst.
Various little tweaks, balances, and additions have been made for this Switch release, but one of the bigger additions is the inclusion of a full-fledged 2D mode. If you so please, you can play through the entirety of Dragon Quest XI as a 16-bit SNES-style RPG, complete with its own music arrangements, environment layouts, and UI designs. In effect, this ‘demake’ feels like an entirely separate game in itself, and you can toggle into it whenever you’d like via a church. In addition to the main world, you can also visit slices of areas from the preceding ten Dragon Quest games via an elaborate series of ongoing sidequests, offering up plenty of fanservice to those of you who’ve been with the series since the very beginning. We were rather blown away by how much effort was put into this 2D mode—in many ways, it feels like its own separate game within the game—and we would highly suggest that you do a second playthrough to see all that it has to offer.
We’d be remiss not to mention the absolutely incredible work that’s been done on the soundtrack composed by Koichi Sugiyama and performed in its entirety by the Tokyo Metropolitan Orchestra. Square heard the complaints about the initial release’s MIDI quality music loud and clear, and though you can still listen to that if you’d like, the symphonic replacement they’ve recorded is among the best we’ve heard in a JRPG yet. From stem to stern, this is a soundtrack that’s sure to give you goosebumps on more than one occasion, and it’s bolstered by the inclusion of 3D sound when using headphones. If you have the chance, we’d highly recommend you play through Dragon Quest XI with headphones on; it’s a transcendent experience that’s sure to immerse you in the world like you wouldn’t believe.
We feel it bears mentioning, too, that this is the most feature complete version of Dragon Quest XI yet available. Along with headlining features, like dual audio, 2D mode, and the new soundtrack, this version also unifies all the content from previous versions and adds in various balancing and quality of life tweaks on top of that. Considering you get all this in a package that can be played both at home and on the go, we’d say that Dragon Quest XI for the Switch is easily the version to buy if you haven’t yet. Now, if you’ve already bought and played through on other platforms before, it’s obviously a matter of whether all the extra content matters enough to pay for the full game again. This is where it gets a little murkier; taken on their own, we don’t think the various additions justify sixty bucks alone, but your opinion may differ. Either way, if you’ve yet to experience Dragon Quest XI, do not pass up buying it for the Switch; any minor performance issues are easily outweighed by the enormous bang for your buck that you’re getting with all this content.
Conclusion
Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Edition is an achievement that Square should be proud of; this is one of the best games they’ve put out in years. A heartwarming, well-paced narrative supported by a cast of fantastic characters, a dense and interesting overworld packed with dozens of hours of content, and one of the finest soundtracks we’ve heard in a JRPG combine to make this an unforgettable modern classic. Whether you’re a newcomer to the JRPG genre or a returning vet, do yourself a favor and buy Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age as soon as you’re able. This is the epitome of a gift that keeps on giving, and it more than deserves a spot in your Switch library.
Comments 138
I neeeeed it to be tomorrow
What I expected. Should be a great time.
A 9, I figured as much after playing the (IMO) great demo.
Already on its way and should arrive tomorrow, although I probably won't play it anytime soon with my 2019 backlog.
Won't be getting my copy on launch day due to it being a public holiday here otherwise I might have started it over the weekend. Gonna have to go into the backlog for a while instead but preeeeeetty keen to play it in the near future.
Shut up and take my money!
Just 1 more day. Can tomorrow come already?
Might check it out on Steam.
I’m certain about getting it. But I need to finish Ni No Kuni first.
Even though I played through this game on PS4 just recently I still find myself wanting to pick up this version of the game just so I can enjoy it on Switch, playing an rpg this grand and expansive anywhere I please is a very tough temptation to resist, especially when you consider all of the improvements that have been made, I also never dabbled in the end game content and I hear it wraps up the story nicely so this version would give me the perfect excuse to play it again.
Not a huge fan of JRPGs in general but really enjoyed the Demo. It’s got that special something.
I’m on the fence in this one. It has quality but I was playing the demo and put it down for a few weeks with all the recent releases and after going back to it I’ve completely lost my way. This three sided rock is really hard to find in this huge world...I just may not have the time for this.
I was planning on starting this the moment it got through my letterbox tomorrow, but I ended up spending all this week at home with the flu and eventually caved and started Ni No Kuni instead, so this may have to wait a few weeks. But then there’s Luigi’s Mansion, and Pokemon two weeks after that...man, I wish I was back at uni and had more time for gaming, being an adult in a full-time job sucks. Now I finally have enough money to buy games, but not enough time to play.
@BarefootBowser I suggest you play Astral Chain first. Is a fun game and is around 20+ hours long. Dragon quest is longer than that.
I still need to finish VIII first. Better get on that. I want to start this one ASAP.
Maybe it's just me, but the demo just didn't hooke. Which is odd because I grew up playing the dragon quest games.
Ill still probably get it though, just not yet.
Oh man, I can't wait
I understand it didn't score a 10/10 for being an old game, but if you've never played it, it's one of those that would deserve it.
It's simple: one of the best games you will find on the Switch.
I finished it on PS4 last month. This truly is a great game. I wish they would release a definitive edition upgrade on PS4.
Great things I've read here, although it seems like the reviewer wanted to thoroughly explain newcomers to the saga what Dragon Quest means, because many of the things he says can be said for the previous entries too.
I really love the series, and a big reason for that is the fact that all DQ games feel the same, not in a bad way, but in the way that you always feel like home, you know what kind of setting you're going to find, unlike Final Fantasy.
Funny to read that they listened to fans about the music issue, because it's nothing new: it already happened with DQVII and DQVIII remakes for 3DS, and even worse: Japanese audience got to listen to symphonic music, whereas overseas we were stuck with midi versions.
As per the 3D-2D thing, I stand corrected, but I had read that after a few hours you had to choose and could never go back to the discarded visual style. Nice to read that it's not the way. I won't have the time to play it twice, so I'll be toggling a lot.
I'm pretty interested in this game, but I just know there's basically no way I'll have the time to make it through such a massive game - especially when I still need to play Breath of the Wild and Octopath Traveler, with the pressure of their upcoming sequels admittedly getting to me.
Fell in love with the demo! Unfortunately, this will have to wait a bit, until I finish Link's Awakening and Astral Chain.
I wish I could enjoy this game with the amazing art, story, and music. But after trying the demo, both exploring and combat were rather dull, so it wouldn't hold my interest
This review is actually quite a good one. Well done.
There are two minor issues with it.
1. The review score is irrelevant. As usual the review score bears zero relation to the content of the review. I am sure NL will fight to keep them in but they'd actually do better to remove them entirely. NL just being stubborn.
2. The fact that Dragon Quest is just a text based RPG at it's core.
Sure there's the music and visuals which are the reason many people (myself included) buy DQ games. However you can get the same core experience with this as a text based game.
This is exactly why DQ11 is a great game. The core RPG elements are done exceptionally well. The eye candy and eargasms just add to the experience and make it even better.
Those who are saying the game is dull - they are really saying "this game is not for me". DQ11 is not dull in any way at all. It is quite the amazing game.
However not every game is for everyone. If DQ11 doesn't interest you, that's fine, it's not for everyone. It's still amazing but this kind of JRPG does not appeal to everyone.
Just note well: Just because this game is not your cup of tea, that does not make the game dull at all.
@Moroboshi876
The reviewer did want to explain what DQ is and they did a decent attempt at it. They missed out a lot butfor a newcommer it's not that bad.
Also switching from 2D to 3D is not an anytime thing. You can do it at anytime but you do lose a little progress. It seems you have to play each section of the story in a single mode and you revert back to the begin of that section if you swap between 2D and 3D.
Note well I mean small section and there is ao msny of them in the game so your progress lsot is not that much. I don't mean major part of the game. I can't say more because spoilers for those who have not yet played the game. I've finished it on PS4 and will double dip.
I’m glad I stopped playing the PC version and held off for this one. The extra content looks great and 2D mode is very nice.
IT'S TIME!!! super excited to play through this again in 2D on the go!!!!
Finishing off Fire emblem today so I can buy this tmw and continue from my demo save. Very excited 😆
@the8thark And the reviewer did right, of course.
Thanks for clarifying the 3D-2D thing. It's the first time I read it. But well, that's better than the "just for a few hours and then stick to one" that I read I don't remember where the hell.
I'm so looking forward to DQXI. After the demo, it's easy to see why it scored so high. It looks like it's going to be a fantastic entry in one of my favorite series. I'm on the last dungeon in Link's Awakening. Another great game! I'm feeling quite spoiled right now.
I finished Link's Awakening on Monday, and I have been eagerly waiting for this to arrive — can't wait for tomorrow! This definitely looks like a 10 for me
@GARF13LD why buy then if there’s no panic to play yet? Save your money for a month or two
"Joys: Symphonic soundtrack performed by Tokyo Metropolitan Orchestra"
They can throw all the money they want at it, it's still one of the worst game soundtracks I've ever barely put up with.
Can't wait to play the 2-D mode
Gonna be redeeming those My Nintendo gold coins that are set to expire at the end of this month to put towards this game! Means I have to purchase a digital version but that's ok, I can swap between this digitally and a physical Link's Awakening without having to remove its cartridge!
I've had my copy preloaded since it went live. If the game's performance is identical to the demo, sans the occasional crashing issue, then I'll be very happy with it. It performs admirably for what amounts to a PS4 game on mobile hardware. The framerate, especially, felt rock solid. This can't come out soon enough.
Oh joy! Great reviews for a great game.
I need to finish up Tales of Vesperia so I can get back on this gem (after playing the demo 10 hours). I'll pick this up sometime next week along with Darksiders 2.
Played the demo and loved it, definitely picking it up at some point
@sandman89 In all honesty just a bit of gaming addict, I should wait till they drop in price but can't help but pre-order a game when I see it coming out.
I do it with the PS4, I never buy any game on release.
this should be a 10
Played the demo, this became top priority to purchase.
Never played a DQ game before, but I was intrigued with the demo. Oh, what the heck! Reviews for this a booming, and I need something to tide me over until Luigi's Mansion 3 arrives.
Count me in.
Amazing game! Im glad that studios are innovating, but I'm also glad these games are available. There is just something relaxing and comforting about playing an old school turn based RPG.
Cant wait to dive back in tomorrow!
Good grief I’ve only just started Divinity Original Sin 2. How the hell do so many great games release over such a short period?
at the end of the demo i don't think i'd continue, you can just set every character to fight wisely and that handled every mob enemy and the story so far left me too much in the dark to think characters actions made sense, "the orb" is soooo vague. also featuring the same npc type as separate characters in cutscenes.
I am looking forward to getting this but not sure when it will be. I'm not even close to finishing Fire Emblem yet, at least I don't think I am. Working my way through Celeste, I wanted to complete everything in that game but I learned about golden strawberries recently so ... probably won't be getting all of those.
Either way, so many games to play and more coming out. I feel like I am letting so many good games just pass by as well, but I refuse to let Dragon Quest XI pass me by. It will be mine.
I'll wait on Zelda prices to drop a bit but I'll be getting this one this weekend!
This is a certain eventual purchase for me AND seems to be THE definite version of this game to boot. I'd like to play through a couple of its backlogged (VII and VIII on the 3DS) older siblings first.
I used to love these kinds of classic jRPGs and while I am no super fan of DQ in particular, I have thoroughly enjoyed DQVIII on PS2 back in the day. The Switch is also a natural fit for games like these, and I heard much good about the game itself and (so far) about the Switch port.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can handle this type of combat anymore. I still love turn-based games, but I've become less and less enamoured with games that rely this heavily on menus. It's just the least engaging way to to interact with any kind of game. Also, IF games stick with this tried-and-true formula, so to speak, they at the very least of it, need a twist of some sort. Not to mention that presentation is crucial, with plenty of on-screen movement (not necessarily effects), to at least give the expression of combat dynamic unfolding unscreen.
So for instance, I would have liked movement in DQXI to have some impact, maybe go for like a ATB'esque system and have some actions directly mapped to buttons, or at least create more interesting menus, that feel less like ... Excel.
All-in-all, I get what they were trying to do (and that they have done well to be fair), I love the visuals and music, and the world and characters strike me as worth exploring and engaging with, but ... with the combat being what it is, with very little in terms of strategic layers going on or any kind of action packed into it, I won't be able to sit through 80h or so hours. It'S just the way it is.
I still hope the game will be a hit on the Switch. It stands to reason that there are still alot of players out there, who did not have their fill of this type of rather basic, traditional and twistless jRPG combat, and to them, I feel, this must truly be a gem.
I just hope that we will also see more experimental AAA jRPGs coming out of Japan. It doesn't have to be an action, not at all, but the formula, as mastered here, has in many ways reached it's limit. Considering how easy it is to implement some of those tweaks (hell - even a more dynamic camera and combat staging would make a huge differenc -> just look at the first 10 minutes of Lost Odyssey as a good example!) I am still hopeful, the industry can successfully bridge the gap between the old and the new.
A good example of how use JUST presentation to make things feel significantly less dull than they actually are, is and always will be: Persona (particularly P5) and yes, absolutely, TMS#FE as well!
I still feel the combat in these games was one of their weakest points, but the considering the rest and how combat was presented, it was actually forgiveable to me. I wish I had gotten that impression of DQXI ... amazing game with dull combat, but you likely won't catch on to said dullness, because it is hidden beneatch a wealth of on-screen style and movement, combined with a natural flow that never felt like it was truly menu-based (again P5 did this rather well for the most part).
Looking forward to next DQ game and maybe I'll pick this one up once it's on sale, even knowing I will loose interest long before the credits roll!
Roughly 4 hours in the game so far, probably still within the realms of the demo version and I have to say I'm absolutely loving it so far, battling is fun and actually challenging (turned on the harder enemies/less exp challenge modes which might have something to do with it), exploration is fun and feels suitably rewarding and cutscenes and characters ooze of charm. If it continues being as good until the end then this one is a winner in my books.
will be buying this tomorrow as soon as I get out of the office, I cant wait anymore!
Trying to finish up Zelda to dive into this. DQ was going to take a back seat to Ni No Kuni, but the demo got me started on DQ first.
Great review! I can't wait to pick this up after work tomorrow. What a great time to be a gamer.
This is a great review, and this game is one of my favorite RPGs of all time. I got the Platinum on PS4, and I can't wait to try out the new content. My copy should be arriving in the mail tomorrow. I'm beyond excited.
Played it through on PS4 at launch and along with suikoden 2 and FF7/8 , it’s up there as one of the best jrpg’s I’ve ever played.
Enjoy
I love the art style, but the turn-based combat totally kills it for me.
@Hylian-Likely It’s a great problem to have. I’m loving Link’s Awakening and have a backlog of great games just waiting. I envy you just starting BOTW. I’d love to find time to play that again.
Just give the game a 10/10 score and stop being a big baby, Nintendo Life!
The first game officially announced for the Nintendo NX back in 2016 finally arrives.
I need it now....but worst part I bought the NIN package and wasn't to cancel but can't. ugh Guess I have it to keep around unless someone gives me a good deal to buy only if.
Blessed Horii can do no wrong, I can't wait to laugh and cry with this masterpiece all over again.
@Ralek85 I agree with most of what you said, but I have a few things to add. You say that the game is a classic, bog standard RPG, and that you would prefer more innovation. You also say that "I just hope that we will also see more experimental AAA jRPGs coming out of Japan." I'd say that's actually the norm. The golden age of the classic RPG has come and gone, now most titles try to innovate in multiple areas. The Dragon Quest series is designed for those that want to play a classic RPG. For more innovative RPGs, you can choose pretty much any other title because few developers are making purely classic RPGs anymore.
Here's the NL interview with the developers, https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/09/feature_dragon_quest_xi_s_developers_on_bringing_the_definitive_edition_to_switch:
"Speaking from the perspective of Japan, we have a lot of fans of the Dragon Quest series that aren’t expecting a lot of change. They like to experience new stories that are added to the games while playing the game with systems, menus (and) battle styles that they recognize. They appreciate that familiarity as opposed to wanting to reinvent the wheel each time. And so when it comes to continuing to make RPGs in that classic style, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing."
@Kalmaro
I totally agree. The demo was so slow. And reading of the shallow combat mechanics, I'm wondering what the appeal is for this game. Maybe I didn't give it enough time?
@Freddo When I started my fort battle, I got excited since you could move in combat.
I figured they mixed things up. Turns out your position doesn't seem to matter :/
@Ralek85 @Ralek85 Presentation is indeed a surprisingly strong foundation for RPG's, maybe it's just my monkey brain talking but all those bells and whistles really make a difference in my overall enjoyment of it. Atlus is indeed particularly good at it, all the little ways in which the camera shake to make attacks feel powerful and satisfying in SMT, how each type of attack has a particular finishing animation which is as brutal as it is gorgeous, the small jingles it plays as you exploit a weakness which is as exciting as it is terrifying when used against you.
Or in TMS where the incredibly dynamic camera angles and erratic character switching make the combat feel way faster and exciting than any turn based game has any right to, or how every 'ping' in a session feels so incredibly satisfying.
I ironically found Persona 5's overall combat severely lacking. The combat angle, the particle effects, the sounds, the animations... it's all incredibly exciting on the first place (like much of the game) but it losses it's luster entirely too fast, and unlike the previously mentioned it's combat isn't anywhere near as deep or good to sustain it for it's 100 or so hours.
I'd argue it's similar to DQ XI in that aspect, I only finished it to see what happens next. But I found DQ XI's story to be much more fulfilling and well made, mostly because it focuses on the essentials of story telling and make the most of it. It is a story entirely driven by emotion and character, which allow it to have all the silliness and charm it wants without sacrificing any of it's emotional depth whereas in P5 it's grand aspirations towards a significant narrative are marred by its fickle tone, it's indecision between being a serious sprawling narrative or a feel good anime ultimately hurts both aspects. You'll notice that SMT and TMS are fully committed to each respectively, and if you played the original 3 entries in the Persona franchise, you'll realize it was once committed as well.
I've rambled enough, my point is that while DQ's combat is admittedly rather drab when compared to most modern rpg's (tough for what it's worth, it's difficulty it's stellar) there is plenty more to it than that, the sheer enjoyment of just wanting to explore the next area and seeing each character interact was enough to make it impossible to drop for the entirety of it's run for me. If your impression is based on the demo, rest assured it picks up steam at gallopolis, the area where the demo cuts off.
Even if at a discount bin, any RPG fan of any capacity owes this game it fair shake.
@Freddo it's story and characters are by far it's best feature, the game play isn't anything to write home about but it admittedly gains steam as you progress trough the game, boss battles are very well balanced which always makes them exciting, provided you don't grind to hell and back (there is a draconian quest to prevent this).
The first 10 hours are definitely it's slowest point for obvious reasons. Tough I can't guarantee you would like it, it really depends on the person.
Will get right on to it as soon as I wrap up everything I need in the demo version.
I wonder how far the reviewer played. Nothing in the text or photos seems to suggest anything further than about 20 hours.
Switch on FIYAH!...seriously there are way too many good games on Switch right now. What is really going on??
@the8thark It's not dull, but it is looong. The weirdest part is that even for a dq game it feels like it's 3 games stapled together. That's not a bad thing, but by the time the game makes you think it's ended, you've got 2 more game length arcs to go.
@Starcakes That's the thing. DQ 11 l, even for a dq game, is a slow burn. Like a really, really slow burn. The first third of the game is an introduction to the characters and world. That's about 30 to 50 hours. The plot doesn't happen until after that. And then you've got about another 30 after that to rage against the machine following the ending. It feels long. It's a phenomenal game, but it's takes its time in a way most modern games don't.
@Ralek85 I mean, no one can blame you for losing interest once the credits roll. It takes 40 hours to get to the plot (not a bad thing) Hell, once the credits roll you still have 30 hours more to the game. And its the best 30 hours.
As soon as I beat Ni No Kuni it is on. This is my favorite series. I have been waiting for this for ages. I played the heck out of the Demo. This game is going to be my new favorite game. I already know it.
Yeah, I'm definitely picking this up sometime down the road!
I was slightly disappointed when I opened the game box right now to find only a cartridge. No other little paper from squeenix or anything else for that matter. But at least I got my grimy little hands on it! Woohoo, wow classic can sit on the bench this weekend!
I don't understand why this "only" got a 9.
Too many games to play, so little money. On my wishlist for sure.
Nintendo was marketing this heavily coming it's release and after this DQ newbie played the demo and seeing him in smash bros, i can see why. Pretty sure this game'll make bank coming it's release.
@Ralek85 Hey I’m just curious what JRPGs you’d recommend on the Switch. I’m definitely the type of person that looses interest in these games about 30 hours in. I like them and all, but my mind keeps wandering and I start feeling like my time is being wasted since the gameplay isn’t very compelling. I’m going to finish Persona 5 eventually, but I’m about 40 hours in and I feel a very similar apathy.
Which JRPGs have you played that kept your interest? I did find the turn based battles in that Octopath demo sort of compelling. Is that a good one?
@Xansies
Firstly what you said could be considered a spoiler, so just watch out ok.
Secondly I do agree with you, the game is quite long and that's not for everyone. There is no post game content (in the traditional sense) so I think the game length is justified. Though it's not for everyone.
Thanks for the comment
@NotTelevision
Octopath is a unique example. This is because each of the 8 stories are their own separate campaign. Probably 10-20 hours each. Depending on how fast or slow you taken them.
Very good for portable play as you can play through one story, finish it and then pick up the game later and not have to remember any story as the next story is new, mostly separate and a good starting point.
Most RPGs do feel samey after a while. All games do this. The only reason we feel it in certain games as we're still playing them after 40 hours. Most shorter games are long since finished by that point. When you say "since the gameplay isn’t very compelling" - I feel that's you just trying to force yourself to like Persona 5 when it's not really a game for you. That game's gameplay is great, but it's very niche and not for everyone.
That's totally fine. I've tried to like certain good games of other genres and can't do it, they are great games, just not my cup of tea.
My favourite RPGs are the ones that have their quirks and are a little on the more unique side.
Ni No Kuni
Ni No Kuni 2 - I liked it a lot, based on the story and looks of the game however it's not as good as the first and the DLC is fundamentally broken
Dragon Quest XI - Really liked this in PS4
Xenoblade Chroniches 2 - If you like RPGs that are not turn based, then this might be for you. Though I must say the Wii original is good too but it's very linear, to a fault. It looks impressive but it's not an open game at all. The Switch game is more open (on a per Titan basis).
Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicles - I really liked that on the GC and the Switch remake is looking pretty good too. Just read up on the chalice as that dictates the gameplay. If you ok with what that entails then you might like this.
Trials on Mana - That SNES RPG with a new official translation now. I've played the fan translation of that for years. It's a great game and well worth checking out, especially how you get different playable characters. I don't know if the remake will be any good. The Secret of Mana remake was pure garbage. Will Trials of Man be better? Who knows.
For something a little harder to officially play these days
Paper Mario 64
Paper Mario - Thousand Year Door
Sure these two are old games but they both hold up really well are not that long to finish and are really fun games. Nimtendo needs to make a double pack and port both to the Switch. They would sell.
@the8thark Thanks for the recommendations. I’ll definitely check out Xenoblade and Octopath eventually since I’ve heard they are pretty good. I thought Secret of Mana was a pretty fun and unique game when I played it a while back, so I’ll probably like the sequel.
I remember really enjoying Super Mario RPG and Earthbound as a kid. Hope to see them on the SNES online service sooner rather than later. I don’t think I knew when I was younger that those Paper Mario games were actually successors to Mario RPG. I think I have the Paper Mario 64 cart somewhere but I never played it. It would be nice to see Thousand Year Door on the Switch, since I don’t have a GameCube anymore and never played it back when it came out.
I’m not sure what exactly is the “secret” to making an 80 hour game absorbing enough to warrant the investment. It’s easy to say that in order for a game to be that long it has to have a clear motive or objective to keep the player absorbed, but I’ve sunk 100+ hours into Breath of Wild and Stardew Valley effortlessly mainly because of the sheer amount of content and creativity I could have playing around with the systems. I think it also goes back to old game design adage where the very act of doing something simple like jumping or swinging a sword must be compelling enough for the player to get satisfaction out it even the 5000+ time they do it. It’s very hard for a game that consist mostly of menus to pull that off.
Got my copy a day early, plays like a dream, wouldn't let me claim my Champions Pack yesterday though
@Morgan19 Probably because it's an old game (same case with Divinity 2).
But maybe it's just because it's a third party game, and we believe they don't want to give them a 10/10 lol
After playing the demo and the full version for a while I can't help but be disappointed we never got the 3DS version. It would have been a completely different-looking and feeling experience when compared to this version, and somehow it just doesn't feel all that special to me after seeing the PS4 version in action. I do appreciate the added content and QOL changes, but I just can't feel the excitement over the game I would have definitely felt had they released the 3DS version over here, too. It truly feels like a missed opportunity seeing how VII and VIII fared so well.
The PS4 version was my favourite game of 2018. Loved every minute of that game. I'm picking this up because I want to support Square who is supporting the Switch. When I play it a second time, I'm gonna spend a lot of time in the 16 bit graphics. My copy shipped from Amazon today. It's $10 less than a normal release so I hope that helps it sell.
Joy:
has good dog.
I have not played any main line dq game. Only the builders spin offs. Is this game connected and should i read the plot from some of the previous games on Wikipedia. Or are the games only loosely connected like tales and final fantasy and it is no problem to start fron scratch with this one?
@Jezebel95 I feel you Jezebel...soooo bad. I finally have carte blanche to buy whatever I want, but time - and kids using all my gaming toys means this happens very rarely. Bloody grown up life!
@nimnio Points well made, but I would a couple more remarks then.
1. There are still plenty of "oldschool" jRPGs (AAA, AA and indie) that are ... mechanically stubborn and that is okay. As I mentioned, even among the ones that remained - by and large - static, some like Persona hid it rather well. In other words, I find it at its mechanical core to be ancient, but it's not readily apparent.
2. I think DQ is a big and popular franchise to house two approaches under its roof, like a very traditional experience on the one hand and then, kind of like a spin-off, a game with in part different sensibilities, that still sticks to the overal aethetics, humor, world design, atmosphere and such, but takes it to a different plane mechanically.
3. I have not played the FF VII Remake yet, but from what was said and what I've seen Square might have done a really amazing here for once, in having both player basis (largely) satisfied by having a classic menu-focused mode and an entirely different take with more action'y sensibilities. I obviously reserve final judgement, but it certainly seems possible that they hit a nerve their by not even having to split a series into two parts.
It is kinda ironic, how this might succeed with a remake of an ancient game, after the - what I consider failures - FFXIII and FFXV (though it is worth noting, that I had a whole host of issues there that were not at all mechnically).
3. To me, from a very subjective view, I don't think I have played anything really mechanically unique in terms of AAA jRPG since Resonance of Fate. Certainly nothing remotely AS unique and actually well-thought out and cohesive. What I mean is, taking a game that used to be a sloggish yet deeply tactical IP and turning it into a hack'n'slash, another by now mechanical ancient and overcrowded genre, is not exactly pushing the envelope on what one can do with different layers of tactical and strategic elements within the frame of a massive jRPG.
Not to say that the industry is stagnant in that regard, but yeah ... the last 9-10 years, the AAA jRPG industry rarely had me at the edge of my seat due to, say, a combat system.
The X/Xenoblade series certainly had some interesting ideas, which I appreciated even though some worked better than others, and some of the changes introduced new challenges (like a proper difficulty scaling to sustain a challenge for instance or how to marry open-world with compelling story pacing and so on and so forth.)
To be clear, I don't and never have asked, for alle future DQ games to be unlike DQ XI. Personally, I would just love a game that is DQ in all regards but combat, or at least, performs better at hiding it's generic nature in that regard
So today is the release date and honestly I see Nintendo Life giving this game short shrift compared to other AAA titles. In Japan this title is venerated and while I will be the first to say RPG's have not traditionally been my favorite genre this game is amazing and this treatment by other countries press is why they seldom send the better games here.
@the8thark
Ocopath for me did not resonate. The plot and fighting sequences were plodding and felt forced. Perhaps I will revisit it after I get deeper into DQ 11
@NotTelevision
I know you did not ask me personally but the Sega Genesis Classics for Switch has a lot of great games including some JRPG's that still hold up. I was more of an action person but I have come to appreciate these now. Of course that is if you appreciate 16 bit graphics.
@Starcakes No disagreement there. P5 combat at its core was entirely ... rote, no doubt about that, with little new ideas added worth mentioning, like the baton pass for instance, and a severe overreliance on menus. Still, I like how many actions, like all the basic ones, were directly mapped to buttons and the menus ... well, they are slick without fail and simply the best in the biz imho. Also, fantastic music, the best scene transitions I've yet seen (not to mention that 90% of videogames, I've played, actually feature NO scene transition whatsoever) ... bunch of stuff that made the rote combat tolerable.
But yeah, when P5 excelled at all that, TMS#FE certainly nailed the presentation in terms of dynamic camera and that "concert" feel, with plenty of little dopamin triggers through-out. I would agree, that TMS#FE was actually more effective in terms of cloaking it's nature.
Just goes to my point, that there are many ways to at least do that: make it feel more exciting than it actually is. In a way TMS#FE reminds me alot of Lost Odyssey 1st battle. Not much is actually happening, hell, you are not doing that much, but it sure looks and feels that way Fortunately, TMS#FE was better at sustaining that sense through out the numberless fights than LO (which had other strengths of course).
Anyways, many roads led to Rome, and I feel it's not asking too much of devs, to - if they decide to stick with this kind of most-basic-combat-approach - to not let it show like this and not right away.
@Ralek85 I think that boils down to "I dislike what DQ is but wish I could play a completely different series using its music and art style."
DQ is DQ. The combat system is the combat system. That's a core reason people buy it. If it were to go a different way it would lose it's identity and reason for existence, unless sales were to slow to a point that indicated that there's no longer a suitable market for it to continue being what it is.
I don't think DQ needs to change as long as plenty of players enjoy it being what it is, and indeed buy it because of what it is. If you're burned out on the gameplay I think it just means you don't enjoy the game, not that the game stagnated in a way that means it needs to change for the majority of it's players to enjoy it. It only needs to change if sales indicate a decline in people that do like what it is. Otherwise it'll just end in complaints of Square ruining it, a jaded fanbase, and 1000 indie 16-bit "Dragon Quest-inspired!" half baked clones.
@RiasGremory. I am going to buy this game on my lunch break. Can you tell me if the demo will roll into the physical copy or do I have to get the digital version? Thanks!
@TheLightSpirit no kidding, I'm so excited for this one. I wanted links awakening and the downloaded the DQ demo. I forgot all about links awakening! I just hope my demo rolls into the physical copy and not just digital..
@NotTelevision I feel hard pressed to answer that question to be honest. I loved the demo of Octopath Traveler. It was one of my most hyped games at the time, despite all the misgivings I mentioned above having been true for quite a while there (long before Octopath). The visuals were gorgeous, the combat felt engaging, with enough deepth to keep me going, the mood of the game felt mature for a (j)RPG - not in terms of 'hoho-gore-and-sex' - but, well, somber, the games touched on interesting human themes with non-child/teenage protagonists, like Primrose, at the forefront.
In that way it harked back too a bunch of games I really enjoyed with a similar somber'ish mood and theme (obviously to varying degrees, some more in terms of aesthetic, some more in terms of characters or story, but in that sense of an overall atmosphere), like:
Lost Odyssey, Resonance of Fate, Chrimson Shroud, Shadow Hearts (& SH Covenant), Valkyrie Profile, Vagrant Story and bunch more I can't think of right now ^^
Also, I felt there was actually some challenge there, plus a decent scaling. Meaning the game was no push-over, BUT at the same time, most challenges could be overcome with some mechanical insight and proper proper execution. It did not boil down to just "grind more" in the demo.
Much of this holds true for the final product, which I got without hesitation, except that ... I REALLY did not like the way the game was structured. It's probably my biggest gripe with the game, but it's actually so severe, that my interest faded really fast. The lack of a cohesive story, that felt meaningful, that kept the characters interconnected, that pushed me forward ... well, in sight of that, all the games other shortcomings become most readily apparent. Most of all the combat, which was still fun for a bunch of hours, but ultimately being just a minor twist on a well established tropes (full disclosure here, I had played Bravely Default before, so in fact I was more used to systems at play here, than I first figured when my playtime was limited to the demo) it started to tire me rapidly.
Part of that is this: At some point the lack of structure (you can basically go wherever, pick up new quests, new companions and continue their individual - for the longest time - stories, with some artificial level gatin) meet the combat, meaning, what was previously a surmountable challenge quickly became a pure grindfest, leaving you only the option to power through or go somewhere else and try your luck there.
No really story drive, a at it's core overly familiar combat system and structure that often left you running head first into a grind(or-just-go-elsewhere-)wall .. I was out.
I feel kinda bad for it, but I can't bring myself to really recommend Octopath to anyone, who finds themselve able to even remotely follow that train of thought I just laid out and who has previously found themselves frustrated by more or less generic jRPGs (I know, sounds nasty ^^), esp. if you - like me I guess - based your view of the game on the intial short-burst of gameplay from the demo.
[Sidebar: IF you are not strict with your strict with said definition of jRPG, I absolutely love and adored Golf Story on Switch, easily in my Top5 games on the system yet, with enough depth, wit, charm and character, to count as a Mother/Earthbound'esque "jAdventure" ]
If you can wait, I absolutely loved the Prototype of Indivisible, which is due on Switch next year. If the rest of the game/ final product holds up ... boy oh boy, a worthy successor to Valkyrie Profile 1 and maybe more!
Final Fantasy XII is a good one, but after a while the gambit system produced similar affects, as Xenoblade 2's system (see below).
Valkyria Profile, has a series, a unique approach to combat, which I appreciated, though never really outright LOVED, as some other games I'm mentioning here, but it's definitely a fine series, worth looking into.
As I Fire Emblem game, I would be remiss to mentioned Three Houses, which is not quite in my Top 3 FE games, but it is a fantastic game, and now with the "Lunatic"-patch, I'd hope that my issue with the lack of any challenge the game offered to a veteran player has hopefully been adressed. Still, I liked it despite that issue, though again unlike, say, Path of Radiance I did not ending up outright LOVING it ...
It really depends what you want from a game. If you want a jRPG, but basically need it to be an action game, there are a bunch of alternatives, like Ni No Kuni 2 for example, but really Star Ocean and dozens more.
But we are talking JUST Switch here right? Well, as I mentioned in the comments above, I enjoyed TMS#FE on the WiiU a whole lot. It was a traditional game, but it has mastered the art of cloaking that nature, better than most. Also, as I mentioned above, the combat in particular, was just so well presented, with little bits constantly added here and there, that impacted not just your "stats" or the results, but the actual on-screen action, in a significant matter, so that it never really got to the point of boring mere until the game was over and done. Never got back to it to play NG+ though, which is one reason, why I'm indeed very inclined to pick up the Switch version. It was really good, personally, I liked it more than 'X'.
Speaking of X, Xenoblade 2, is an interesting one, but be aware, that it's also deeply flawed. There are technical issues, some of the world feels just empty, with pointless fetch-quests, all-over, but most egregious is the combat. What about it, you might wonder, did cause me offense? Well, it IS fun, BUT only for a while. It becomes repetitive rather fast and worst of all, it's in large part automated. You are attack automatically, you have no real influence over your comrades (not as troubling as Ni No Kuni 1, but still) and ultimately, in 85% of the fights, if you are not hopelessly overleved, it's not a matter of WHETHER you win, but just WHEN you'll win. Playing "good", speeds up the process, but there is never any sense of actually Overcoming an enemy, or at least only rarely. The fights just loose are their thrill. All of this is aggrevated by little things, like death not being much of a concern, the fact that you spent a fair amount just running around looking for stuff etc. pp. ... things just started feeling mundane.
I still finished it, but with a bunch of intermissions and quite a bit of content unplayed.
My tip: If you haven't played it and are interested, try the "addon", Torna-The Golden Country. I found it to be more focused and cohesive experience, also cheaper and smaller (time-wise commitment).
I have not played YS Lacrimosa yet myself, but I played the vita one, Celceta, and liked that quite a bit. They strike me as rather similar (if some1 has played both and has any significant differences to proclaim, please correct me), but it is actually a rather full-on action game, with some jRPG'esque overarching structure, in terms of progression and types of characters you meet and the way the story tends to unfoled. I still think Celceta is some of the best fun to be had on the Vita though (there are a bunch of truly amazing little jRPGs on the Vita/PSP btw, making it still worth picking up today, like Nights in the Nightmare, Riviera, Yggdra Union, Chaos: Pandora's Reflection and such).
Outside of the Switch...
Depending on your defintion of "jRPG" (I'm using the term in a way most people do, not necessarily in the way, I myself would like to define it ^^), there is always the From Software Souls games.
Broadly speaking, I also feel like recommending the whole host of games, I listed above, is called for, with a special shout out, as I always do, to Resonance of Fate, which is certainly lacking the story department for one, but the combat was absolutely peerless as far as turn-based goes.
Again though, it really depends on your particular tastes for combat and mood.
For instance, I am not much of Tales Of XYZ fan. I played and like Symphonia on the Switch well enough, but rest ..nope. I tried like 5 more but it never clicked. I really enjoyed Eternal Sonata though. It was one of the most unique "traditionalist" RPGs I played. The combat was fun, with a light and dark mechanic that kept you moving on the field, and interesing notion of mixing the world of music with Tales'esque combat sensibilites and truly lovely and underappreciated approach to telling the story of one of the world's greatest musician, Frederic Chopin, by way of an honest-to-god, massive jRPG, interweaving his Person, his history and his music tightly with (almost) every aspect of the title.
Tilting at windmills here, but Eternal Sonata, while once more far from flawless, did many things right, and did a whole host of unique things character, narrative and music-wise. Also, it made me love Chopin's body of work, esp. the Noctures ... I are say for life actually. It features some of the most moving pieces of music I have ever heard to this very day.
Hewh, llloooonggg post, congratz if you stuck around until the end. Anyways, the Switch has many options (at this point, I'm obliged to bring up indies like Hollow Knight, which is perfect imho, and also Dead Cells which is really good for instance), but as far as jRPGs go, that struck a particular chord with me ... not that much and mostly re-releases of sorts, like said TMS#FE.
Not long ago, I gave my obsolete 360 to a friend, just so he could play Eternal Sonata, Resonance of Fate and Lost Odyssey, games he never touched, because he was basically just a Nintendo gamer, and he absolutely loved them to the point, where he argued, that had he known about these games before hand, they alone would made it worth it to him, to pick up a 360, which is otherwise not considered a jRPG heaven by most! But such is gaming and subjective tastes ^^
DQ is a series I've played on a couple occasions (DQIV and DQIX) What's weird is, even though it stays staunchly traditional in its design, I can never seem to put it down once I seriously begin playing it. I had to stop with the DQXI demo early on cause "it" was happening again lol. I'm not complaining, it's just that I have so many other games to play first, RPGs included, that I will come back to DQXI when I can dedicate the proper time. And now I have the DQI, II, and III dilemma to deal with, lol!
@NEStalgia Well, that would be true, if a game was just it's gameplay, like if you could not tell a game is 'That Game' merely by it's music, menu sounds, charactere silhouettes, humor and a thousand different things.
But yeah, you are right, I might love a DQ game, that did not play (in terms of combat alone) anything much like DQXI.
But on the other hand, I might also love a DQ game, that played (in terms of combat) exactly like it, but never made me feel like it did.
In that regard, you are like 30% right with
"I think that boils down to "I dislike what DQ is but wish I could play a completely different series using its music and art style."
It's not about DQ, unless DQ is purely defined by rather shallow turn-based combat, and there is not just one way - aka "completely different" - to go about it either.
Maybe it came across, as me having any desire, to see this kind of DQ game gone, but like I said before, DQ strikes me as big enough, to appeal to more folks than just its core fanbase. If that it is all it wants to appeal forever and ever ... okay, that's fine, too. Games can be "not for me".
Let's be honest though: It isn't! Dragon quest heroes for example would probably not exist, if DQ was the purist's purist franchise. I don't quite see how they could not at least spin-off shift away, from the combat they do or the way the represent it.
How dull, static, menu-driven presentation is at the core of DQ's appeal ........ I really don't know about that, I really, really don't. Maybe there is this crucial-to-commerical-success fanbase, that would go nuts, if the games combat and menus looked like the love-child of P5 and TMS#FE for instance, but that seems like a stretch. I would argue, that even then, that particular release would stand to gain more believers than it would loose loyalists.
... and they could still do DQXII as retro as anything that was ever made in the history of the world. These are not mututally exclusive things. Akira Toriyama style is not married to menu-driven combat. Why would it be? Neither is DQ fantastic music and lovely inhabitants.
I just don't see that interreliance.
Wow, Only a 9?!? (Seems a bit harsh)
@Ralek85 Hey thanks for your detailed and thoughtful post. I thought Golf Story was fantastic as well. Just a joy to play and I really liked that guy with the newspaper that gave you those ridiculous course challenges he created. Good stuff.
Also I love From Software’s games and place them next to Zelda, Metroid, and Castlevania as my favorite games. Beat all of them multiple times and was driven to practical insanity (in a good way) trying to get all the endings in Sekiro earlier this year. Still need to go back to Bloodborne and get further in those Chalice Dungeons but I don’t have all the materials necessary to do so.
I’ll check out Tokyo Mirage Sessions. I didn’t have a WiiU so that one will be new to me.
My parents have possession of my 360 so I’ll have to dust that one off and see if I can find those games you recommended. 👌
@Ralek85 I don't think it's so much as "for purists" so much as it's really one of the last "AAA" offerings of that conventional gameplay. A lot of people that love conventional RPG play buy DQ because it's the only place you can still get it. And you have to consider the Japan player base for the game first and foremost. Financially they probably could make more money taking it worldwide as a big Western updated franchise than catering toward Japan. But at this point, it's a gift, not a curse, that there's one series that caters toward a Japanese market and traditional play. Because no other series really does that anymore other than mainline SMT...and that is most definitely not a game for everybody.
@NEStalgia Well, no game is probably really for everyone as such, but I feel that even just talking the Megami Tensei 'umbrella', we got some mighty good "classic" jRPGs (not to imply that all jRPG used to be exactly the same previously, but rather a broader, underlying trend), at least in terms of combat:
SMT IV Apocalypse, Persona Q2: New Lab., Persona 5, TMS#FE .... which makes for 4 already, with upcoming upgraded Editions for P5 and TMS, plus SMT V in the works for Switch.
I don't see how DQ is really one of the last AAA jRPGs for traditional combat.
Octopath Traveler should count towards that number as well in my view for instance.
Then there is stuff like Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth and the whole Neptunia games, with dozens of similar, admittedly more like AA-tiered entries, around virtually every corner, it often seems.
If the dearth exists, it only does so compared to golden times and the absolute peak of jRPGs, of that sort, which strikes me as ... so long ago, it has a nostalgic air to it. It's been a while since like Chrono Trigger and so on
But again, you make it sound that DQ is this tinies of tents, that could really only support DQ-such-as-it-is. I guess, at some point, someone probably figured the same for a niche series like SMT, but lo and behold, the opposite turned out to be true, with just one spin-off spawning a whole media empire of subsequent spin-offs, and movies, and concerts and what not.
Sure, this is not a given for anyone branching out, no doubt, and Persona did so in terms of style and setting and presentation, certainly not in terms of mechanics or underlying structure (as I mentioned above), but still.
It did not "kill" Megami Tensei, or mainline SMT games, even though it certainly sidelined them, but many folks probably were introduced to SMT by Persona than the other way round, I would at least assume, so ...
We'll see what'll happen. There is much to adore about DQXI, but I for one won't get to enjoy, as I don't quite see myself slogging through the combat.
I will say this, present it as boring and dull as you want, make it turn-based, sure, I don't mind turn-based (so many amazing games those last years, I eat up Slay the Spire and Invisible Inc. for example, insanely good games), but at least use that premise to make it deep and challenging, even if it's just an optional mode. If you good that route, hell, go really old-school. Give me a handbook, make me scour it, layer those systems one on top of another, make me agonize every turn about what to do ...
There are even ways, maybe this is the third path then, to make even a traditional Turn-based game, that also looks the part, feel engaging. Give me tools to master and give me a need to master them. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Turn-based system. That is not what we are talking about here!
@NotTelevision Glad I could provide some inspiration and I am happy to hear to you enjoyed Golf Story. I still kinda hope Nintendo buys out Sidebar Games and gives them all the ressources they need, to make another Mother game. I'd go nuts for that hoping for Golf Story 2 in the mean time.
Definitely keep an eye out for TMS#FE next year then! Out of all the 'traditionalist' jRPGs out there right now, I feel it is the most digestible and also rewarding. It's just a joy to play, not unlike Golf Story, as it is always rewarding and pleasing in one form or another.
If you like Metroid and Castlevania, you should keep Indivisible on the top of your list, and - if you have not done so yet - check out Hollow Knight. I actually felt it was possibly the most enjoyable Metroidvania I have played it. Seeing how it takes heavy inspiration from Souls, which you also seem to enjoy, I'd say you can't go wrong with it. And no, I am not kidding when I say, that I enjoyed it more than Metroid Prime, Super Metroid, Symphony of Sorrow/Dawn of Sorrow, Ori, Axiom Verge ... Metroidvania is a crowded field since the indie boom, for sure, but to me Hollow Knight reigns supreme above all. It's also the best Non-From-Software-Souls games, as well as the best 2D Souls'esque game I know of.
Blaster Master Zero also clicked with me, pretty much the 1st Switch game I got, and enjoyed it more than I thought possible.
As for the 360 ... if you have access to one, get on those games for sure! If you have X1 or better an X1X, make sure to play Lost Odyssey on there. The BC version looks better and plays smoother, with shorter load times than the original. But either way, it's worth a look. The writing of Kiyoshi Shigematsu, as featured in the dream sequences, is the sharpest writing I've seen integrated within the natural fabric of a videogame.
Resonance of Fate, like mentioned, has probably my favorite combat system in any jRPG yet, but you can also play it on PC/PS4. It'll look better, and it might be easier to access for, seeing as you have a PS4, if you played Bloodborne Just don't go in expecting a grand and gripping narrative. I liked the characters and the crazy world they inhabitated, but a bunch of it bordered on non-sensical and there is plenty of grind, no denying that, but the underlying systems were truly strong. It's worth a play even if you don't finish it. Mostly though: Go to the arena, and take the time to learn the systems.
It is NOT a game you can just jump into. It's not going to hold your hand. YOu either come to grips with the mechanics and shape your tactics around it, or you will be vanquished even by lower-tier enemies. It's not a game with a huge margin for error on your part. In that way, it is like Souls, even if it's not so much about timing
THere are still plenty of wrong choices to be made at every turn, and all of them are likely to see you severly punished.
Enjoy!
@Ralek85 DQ already has spinoffs. DQB gives you an action RPG merged with a Minecraft building game. DQ heroes gives a hack and slash. It's not like they're sitting on the brand doing nothing else with it, they're doing a lot with it. It might not be what you had in mind, but that's just personal preference, not really underusing the DQ brand.
Most of the AAA JRPGs have modernized/westernized into action combat systems. True turn-based JRPGs in the AAA category are truly scarce. DQ, SMT, as we've both said. Octopath was a lower budget game VERY specifically designed as a nostalgia trip to SNES classics purely for core fans - but that's just it, games like Octopath are traditional play very deliberately as a retro-modern experience. ACTUAL continuations of classic play styles in a full modern context is much rarer, and DQ is really the flagship franchise of that genre.
But part of the market for DQ is also that it's relatively simple gameplay that almost anyone can jump into. You or I may be a jaded old gamer that's seen it all and done it all and want's different and complex, but we're an infinitesimal fraction of the actual player base and DQ's simplicity is far far more welcoming and accessible to newcomers than....basically any other JRPG system I can think of. That's an overall plus for the series. And the home market doesn't seem to have any problems about this.
I still feel like what you're really saying is "I wish they'd westernize this popular series, or create a different spinoff than the spinoffs they've already created, and make a more challenging game catered more toward my tastes shaped by the boredom of having played decades of JRPGs already" than identifying something they're actually doing wrong with handling the DQ series.
I never thought I'd see the day DQ discussions would resemble Pokemon discussions!
@the8thark Eh, the structure of dq has been a the same since 1988. I get that 11 is an entry point, but it's still very deep into a franchise that hasn't changed it's formula in 30 years. Every single game since 3 including spinoffs does the same thing. Like, it was a huge twist in 1988. 15 games later it seems like it should be taken for granted a little bit.
It's like saying that after beating the elite four in pokemon there are more things to do without specifying what those things are. It's a late-arrival thing if anything.
@NEStalgia You kidding? It makes a lot of sense that dq and pokemon would be in similar places. They're both series that hardly change entry to entry. And, I mean, pokemon was greatly inspired by dragon quest and hasn't messed with that too much since (it ripped a lot from DQ 5 in terms of interface and concept). Then again, DQ monsters was in a many ways a better and worse version of Pokemon red and blue so it goes both ways.
@Ralek85 I do agree with you on Octopath, though. I had a similar experience. I loved the demo, found it very addictive, but the main game, even going into it knowing the structure, lost me part way through. Chapter 1 was a lot of fun. I actually liked the structure in that. But the fact that you repeat that entire structure again just on a harder scale. And then repeat that entire structure again on an even harder scale is incredibly shallow.
That said, I think it could have still endured with that structure. The problem was the places you go were not very interesting or large (similar small outdoor trails connecting small cities with fairly small dungeon set pieces.) The core problem, to me, is that it feels like Bravely. And Bravely is deeply flawed in the same ways. It feels like the games are boss rush games with a small journey between points added in. But it's just an annoying small dungeon to get to yet another boss battle. And while the boss battles are interesting, the bosses deal so much damage at once, and are such massive damage sponges to take down, I tend to lose interest in slogging through extremely tedious, time consuming boss battles and just try to rush it through by doing stupid things. And...that's it...there's not much else to the game. Another small connecting area to get to another damage sponge boss. The first few felt gratifying to finally beat. After the first 6 or so it just felt like a frustrating slog. And then you get to do it ANOTHER 8 times. And then another 8 after that. To me the best part of RPGs is the journey and the navigation through the areas. Bosses are just punctuation marks on them.
I'll put a prop here for World of FF as well. Not the most complex game in the world, but a really fun adventure. It's mostly "traditional" gameplay though.
@NEStalgia I can see how this compares to Pokemon in terms of systems that can - at least to me apparently - feel really rote, really quick. I only played through Red as a child and never managed to get into another one for similar reasons as DQ, I guess.
"Westernizing" is an unfortunate term in my eyes. There were and still are great western turn-based RPGs, from Baldur's Gate, FallOut, Incubation to Divinity, Pillars of the Earth, Invisible Inc. and so much more. Just as there are brilliant Japanese action games, Sekiro, Devil My Cry, Astral Chain, truly to many to list. Neither aspect is particular to one region or culture, certainly not anymore in 2019.
As for ...
"I wish they'd westernize this popular series, or create a different spinoff than the spinoffs they've already created, and make a more challenging game catered more toward my tastes shaped by the boredom of having played decades of JRPGs already"
... yes, for the most part you can put it that way.
By the same token ... well, someone always wants X to stay the same, because X is part of genre Y and genre Y is what X likes and X feels genre Y is disappearing or at least shrinking or not growing fast enough.
In that sense, you boild me down correctly. I felt I was making the series some big compliments. Like I actually want to go to that world, I just don't want to engage the enemies pretty much the same way, I might have done 30 years ago. Frankly, just as I - for one - don't want it to look just as it 30 years ago or sound like it either.
I don't want it to go away. I just figured, they could:
1. keep the personalty of the series, as it pertains to the actual 'day-to-day' combat
2. and evolve it for a new or grown-bored-of-it audience
3. within the framework of a 'spin-off' of one variety or another.
I have no issue with a game like DQXI existing, I just think it's a shame that parts of it feel really lacking. Some folks agree, others disagree, but I feel it's just odd to talk about this in this manner. 20 years ago we had games, turn-based games, that existed, made some money and were alot more complex, challenging as this in 2019. All of this could be entirely optional. It would not have to impact anyone who doesn't care for it or ... again, put into it's own entries.
From my stand-point, I get the sense that this a bit of "this is my toy, you cannot have it"-situation. It's not so much about the toy, really, just about the defiane of any perceived intruder of sorts.
In that sense, fine, I hope it does not kill itself with this attitude and goes the way of Final Fantasy, desperate to 'modernize' all-around, everything and QUICK. You don't have to change your heart and soul to welcome in new and different audiences, but you at least have to leave the door open a crack for them to slip in make themselves comfortable.
I think this could also benefit oldschool fans btw, as I am not confident Atlus and the SMT brand would still exist, if it were not for the success of Persona. Some aspects of which I truly love, others I am not overly thrilled with. I am grateful for being able to go back to SMT-"proper" when the desires arises. Still, SMTIV/A and SMT V without a doubt owe a debt to Persona for their continued existence in this every fiercer and more costly-thus-risky market.
I do agree with everything you said about Octopath though. Sums up my experience rather accurately! I was okay doing it once, but then ... the same structure - made so INCREDIBLE obvious, like working through a checklist or schemata - colliding with a combat, that grinds to halt when you once again hit your head on the proverbial wall of next boss (or even creep if you happened to wander into the wrong place).
I think just the structure might have worked in a more skill-based game, where you just grow with the challenge and gratification comes from 'within' so to speak, not from changing stats or furthering the story. Likewise, I think the combat might have worked in a more cohesive, straight-forward and more focused linear jRPG, where you are more directly engaged with the characters and their (common) story, with fewer prolonged stretches of nothing or meaningless dribble or boring 'fetch quests'. Both aspects colliding though ... fun for a bit, but only a short bit.
I forgot all about World of FF. I remember playing the demo on PS4, I think, like I really long time back. Admittedly, the chibi'esque look and garish colors kinda turned me off. I'm also not like a HUGE FF guy. At the time many of my friends were playing FF, I was playing Xenogears, Shadow Hearts and SMT (or DQVIII for that matter ^^). It was just not my jam, hence Worlds of FF had not had not much to offer to me.
Ah well, maybe FF7 Remake will turn out great and we will one day see a DQVIII remake with a classic gameplay mode and an action gameplay mode and maybe even something inbetween. I like that. I think developers who think about a broad spectrum of gamers, without just settling and targeting ONE SPECIFIC group, might possibly be predisposed to be creative and finding unique solutions to a host of issues, far and beyond just combat (Octopath could have used, I think, some way to handle the difficulty curve, maybe ... just spit-balling here ... a kind of like limited amount of experience instead of random battles, where you would go one place, kill the enemies, find other place, where your level, gear, teamsetup and strategy works, take those guys for their exp and ressources and move on ... no grind, just like a well-prepared economy of ressources incl. exp.)
That's exactly how I played Mutant Road Zero and for some flaws the game definitely had, I ABSOLUTELY loved that. There were always a handful of encounters I could go (back) to. Giving some xp, some new trait, gear, weapon or "money". I would hit a wall, clear, or go back, or sneak by and then come back latter. It was a beautiful cycle.
Few games to this sadly. I used to love Fire Emblem, for how many of the "old" games, just had this kind of economy of sorts. There were ways to cheat the system for a bit, some respawning enemies, cheaping useable items, that gave xp and so on and so forth, but for the most part, you had your pool of xp and money, and you had to figure out how to make the best of it. It was well tuned to that. There was not just tactics involved but also strategy:
Not just HOW to win a BATTLE, but also WHAT to do with that battle to win the WAR. Too few RPGs go to places like this sigh now I am really rambling
@Ralek85 I just feel like when it comes to these sorts of things, "fans" have very different objectives than development. It's meant to appeal to people exactly the way they originally appealed to people long ago. It's not constrained by technology and therefore needs to update. It's an intentional design that is fairly timeless. A new generation of gamers introduced to it are going to like it for all the same reasons the old generation of gamers liked it. All too often these kinds of criticisms come down to a sense of growing out of a game format by getting too used to it, and forgetting that where we are now as gamers is not where we once were, but the games should not necessarily change "with" us, because there's always a new wave of gamers that are where we once were. It's still fresh to them just as it once was to us. The only difference in our group is some get burned out and tired of the pattern, while others continue to enjoy it.
Similarly it's always a tendency of long term gamers to want that more "skill based" game, forgetting that for newer gamers, just handling the camera, stats, items, spells, towns, etc is an overwheling skill as it is. DQ has long, long been a gateway into RPGs for many, and it's not going to fill that role if it "evolves" too much. Similar to Pokemon. An established gamer may "outgrow" that gateway. Or may not.
FFXIII is a terrible FF game in many ways, but it got the combat very right in a lot of ways. There was no real EXP, you had to fight every monster more or less so everyone had more or less the same XP at every encounter and boss...meaning it was more of a puzzle to win plus RNG than a grind, or leveling. There's good and bad to that, but it made boss battles great.
They had me at "you can play it in 16 bit graphics".
Can't wait until Target's buy two get one free Black Friday sale. Getting this, Control and Astral Chain.
@NEStalgia I hear that, but I also like the idea of a game/series (or a character) growing up with it's audience. That helps build a unique relation, that is pretty much irreplaceble.
Also, sometimes crucial individual developers stick around (or come back) for these games and one would expect them to have different vision now, than they had 10 years ago. Not necessarily "better", in any objective way, but just different. Like, this is what I do, I had something to say back then ... now, I've been through stuff, seen stuff, done stuff ... I have to and want to say different things.
I'm still fascinated that Kojima had it in him to stick with MGS, despite the massive changes he made going from I to V, for this long. I guess, gaming is still way more about salary men anything 'artsy'.
Also, the games are not lost btw. DQ is not going anywhere, to the contrary, the old games were never more readily available than today. Retro communities are still around, everything is just a (by todays standart) tiny rom, you can get many games on mobile or portable on the Switch (incl. a freshly minted batch of digital re-releases of classic DQ games ^^).
Last but not least, that kind of approach can only be applied very selectively. If we've handled every IP this way, the industry would have probably grown stale beyond recognition.
I'd love to see some data on how much of a gateway DQ really is into (j)RPGs. I am honestly curious.
The most vocal fans, the ones that would probably bash me for anything I posted in this thread, always struck me as, like I said, traditionalists for sake of it, or for the sake of defiance. Not folks concernd their kids won't be able to get into jRPGS or kids themselves fearing for a future where DQ could potentially feel different.
Not saying it ain't though, and none of what I read online is even remotely representative, but I ... I just don't know.
Based on my anecdotal experience, FE (since Awakening) and Persona seem to be draws for teenagers, as far as these things go. But that is a super small, largely local sample, still the best I got though. I can definitely see Pokemon, that really goes rather strong as a draw to gaming in general at least from what I can tell, though I am not sure, to what degree it funnels teens through to something like Megami Tensei for instance. Just no idea, frankly.
The "skill based" bit refered purely to one way I feel Octopath could have different. Skill-based is also often misunderstood, in my view, as a mechanical skill or sorts (like git gud a souls yo!). I think of it more like a system, that is more-or-less robust to happenstance and rewards optimisation irrespective of time invested. In other words, you are not at the mercy of randomization (or only to small degree) and just doing more of something, will not yield (more or less) automatic success.
So, even if you grind, you get stronger, but there are still barriers you cannot break through unless you have mastered the systems at hand to a high degree (assuming that you cannot luck through by randomization, like "critical hit!", "evade!" or such as the most obivous of examples).
Success is a result of intentional action, not luck or man-hours.
There is not much skill involved just handling the camera, stats, items, spells, towns, etc. Sure, for a really young gamer, fresh off reality, yeah, it's alot to understand and keep track off. But these are like basic videogame tasks. I doubt that it will give pause to anyone who has ever dealt with a handful of games before, that even border on "RPG". If anything, it's matter of lack of streamlining these things, that might give someone pause. Not grasping the concepts and making heads or tails of it.
Anyways, I'm not gonna start any petitions or harass developers on twitter, to get what I want and as a byproduct kill any traditional DQ games in the future.
Maybe I am just yelling at the clouds here, a bit sad, that I probably won't have another DQVIII'esque experience down the road. I still think a game like DQXI could appeal to me with some relative minor (optional) changes, after all I am still invested in games like SMT (curious and excited to hear from SMT V again btw, which has completely gone of the radar for quite some time now).
Right now I feel like I might double-dip on TMS#FE next year. I might not finish it this time around, but I'm in the mood to back to it. I just wish Nintendo could get a grip on save-game transfers. if I could start my save-game over, with NG+ and the new content, I swear I'd buy the Switch version - on my honor, no questions asked!
So yeah, P5 has evolved, at least some aspects of it's nature, TMS#FE is still at heart the same thing SMT has been for decades, but you wouldn't know unless you played it thoroughly and had a history with the series. Let's say it cleans up really nicely and it has learned a handful new tricks, enough to fool you into thinking it has never done this kinda thing before =)
It's not a binary state: classic or modern. I often get the impression though, that this is exactly how people think of it. It's either this or that, and only one is good no matter what.
I appreciated the flow of FFXIII's combat, I did, I actually finished it for whatever reason (still no idea what was really going on story-wise ... or I may have forgotten), but ultimately, I feel kind off feel silly for being turned into a "Smarter Auto-Battle-Button". I wish I could have hidden that part of the interface. It made the game less tedious at times, but at all times it just made me feel ... stupid.
"Puzzle" games are my jam! Puzzle games masked as RPGs... my passion? Ever since Incubation in 1997, which basically struck me as the most genius take on Chess, that any human ever had or would come up with, I stuck to that preferences. I doubt I would have ever played Fire Emblem if it had not been for Incubation. Today, I can just grab it of GoG for next to nothing in seconds. Back then, even figuring out something else like Incubation existed, was a significant task, getting my hands on it ... oh boy, a conquest to say the least.
Lack of content or access is not a problem kids face today imho. It just takes a bit of inclination, curiosity and someone giving them a small push. It's not incumbent on DQXI. One way ... out of thousands imho.
The classics are much more allowance friendly anyways! All Battle Isles games are yours for a tenner! Can't beat that.
The review doesn't mention that to go into 2D mode you have to go back to the start of the game. You can't transfer at will, it's a parallel playthrough. Also the graphics took a real beating. It's blurry and flickery as hell and large objects pop into existence right in front of you. It's very distracting and feels like the game is barely managing to run. The game itself is amazing, a genuine masterpiece, but it feels like additional content is being held hostage by a terrible port.
First time DQ player, this game has just been AMAZING so far, always loved JRPGs and SRPGs just never got around to this and Fire Emblem until this year. What great games, ready to try more!
It’s a masterpiece, the best Dragon Quest game ever made. According to Tim Rogers
@Matroska "The review doesn't mention that to go into 2D mode you have to go back to the start of the game. You can't transfer at will, it's a parallel playthrough. Also the graphics took a real beating. It's blurry and flickery as hell and large objects pop into existence right in front of you."
Really where is the blurry and flickery. I never saw that or are you even looking at the Switch version? I had to play the 2D quest after the last Demo before having to wait for the game to keep going and that 2D quest had nothing blurry or flickery as your describing.
@Terrible_Majesty "It’s a masterpiece, the best Dragon Quest game ever made. According to Tim Rogers"
That's a understatement even when portable the graphics are zero to none in sheer beauty is how I see it. One of best portable games besides BOTW but both will drain hog your battery as I have found out so far. So even with the new Switch upgrade battery if still around 4-5 hours for my game play and that is hitting 40-50% but that is pretty good I would say.
I am a fan since Dragon Warrior 1, and am having a blast with this! The game is great in its own right, but the nostalgia factor adds that much more for me.
@Xansies
Most IPs don’t change that often. DQ is no different in that respect. The same but expanded upon in a new and improved way sells well too.
@SwitchForce
You don’t go back to the start of the game in 2D. You go back to a previous major checkpoint in the game. Not sure if you can go back in the same game mode though.
Also you can’t quit to the title screen in 2D mode.
I do agree this game is a masterpiece.
Also the graphics are quite comparable to the PS4 version. Same pop in. Slightly more aliasing. Slightly lower resolution textures. Slightly more shimmering when moving the camera left to right.
That sounds like a lot but it’s not. The game still looks great on the Switch docked. Easily one of the best looking games on the Switch.
I am staying away from 2D mode though. It’s ancient to the core. Looks great but lacking features that the 3D version has. Also 2D has random monster encounters which I’d prefer to avoid.
I double dipped on it because it’s that good. I am playing it 3D, orchestral music, English voices (I don’t know if NA used different voice actors to my UK/Aus version), DQXI outdoor music (I prefer it to the DQ8 option).
Easily worth the full price.
@SwitchForce
I just noticed a feature in the PS4 version has been removed in the Switch version. This being camera zoom.
In the PS4 version you can zoom the camera out wide or in close it’ll its first person mode. This is for the outdoors areas. I did use this feature a little in the larger areas.
Was it removed because the Switch can’t handle that much game stuff on screen at once? Who knows?
As far as I know this is the only feature removed on the Switch version.
What a fantastic game. The graphics, soundtrack, new content, story, characters and gameplay combine to make one perfect game.
Just asking, but you mention hundreds of hours of content...I am noticing most are only averaging around 50 - 60 hrs??
It will be a travesty if this isn't 2019 game of the year.
Ok so I finished the game. Level 70. Calasmos was way easier than I expected...one question is after the ending you get to save. When you continue that save it's like you haven't fought calasmos yet...?
@the8thark have you finished the game? I got one question for you.
@Joe-b
I have finished the game on PS4. On Switch I'm about half way through now. So I can answer your questions.
Well, I finished and after the game ends you create a save. When you go to the save you start off as if you still can go fight calasmos....so I'm wondering what that save is for? Shouldn't that save start off with calasmos being beaten? Thanks. Great game though. Absolutely amazing.
@Joe-b
A lot of RPGs do this. They don't have any story post the final boss being beaten so they just put you back just before the final boss fight so you can still play the game and do whatever in it.
The game storewide says you have yet to beat the final boss but the cartridge does remember this and you get the recognition for it. That's what that save is for. To recognise you've beaten the game. That way you get the accolade for it and that accolade is saved to your file but if you want to re-experience the ending, you can beat the final boss over again.
One thing I don't remember is:
Is the post final boss ending accessible at the tree in the Academy after experiencing it the first time. You know the one, that lets you re-watch any video you've already seen in game. I guess I'll find out when I beat the Switch version. I'm not going back tot he PS4 to find out.
Also I like how you can watch the videos with the base character costumes or whatever character costumes you have currently equipped.
It is a great game I agree. Quite amazing. I actually think the Switch port is the better version of the game. I think the added content and the quality of life changes really made the game even better. I double dipped because it's really so good.
It's a shame DQ Heroes 1 and 2 are not translated into English for the Switch. As they are really good in my opinion too.
Party wise, in the Switch play through I really tried to find a use for Sylv and Eight. I actually did and both are quite effective in their own way.
Jade in my opinion is a little broken when the item duplication mechanic is abused. Really it's only one or two items that really benefit from this. One is unique to Jade.
Serena was my go to healer, but after re-thinking about Sylv, he's just as good a healer.
Only Veronica and Rab I didn't use that much. Veronica for story reasons and Rab because I don't think he does anything good enough to make it into the 4 that enter battle. Rab's best ability, his 100% change to ressurect dead party memebers is just as good outside battle, assuming you don't come close to a total party wipe.
Erik and Hero, I keepo them both in battle mostly. Hero because most of the pep powers need him in party and Eric's I just like one of his abilities. Though he's a little samey to the hero if you use dual swords.
So far my party is
Hero (Dual swords) + Erik (dual swords) + Eight (dual ???) + Jade (claws)
I replace one of the last 3 for Sylv when I need healing in a tougher boss fight.
Note well - I used the word Eight and ??? for the obvious story spoilers. Don't want others reading this to be spoiled on one of the main story points in the game.
Finally, I'm doing the pastword area after I've beaten the main game.
Pretty cool info. I don't know of the tree at the academy that let's you watch videos...are you talking about the "french girl school academy"? I beat calasmos at level 70. He was easier than I expected. Only if you go into the battle with many pip pops to use ygdrassils blessing over and over and use elfin elixers from the casino over and over on veronica. Use her "magic burst"... I was hoping to see my team off one more time after calasmos. I felt like we had been through so much together! What an incredible ride.
@the8thark One thing I don't remember is:
Is the post final boss ending accessible at the tree in the Academy after experiencing it the first time. You know the one, that lets you re-watch any video you've already seen in game....
.ok that I don't know....where?
@Joe-b
This tree is outside the headmaster's office in the Acadmie de Medalles. You hand in the midi medals to the headmaster. It's literally like a few steps from the headmaster's door inside the Acadmie on one side.
@Joe-b
Also I beat that last boss a different way. I used a certain item on him. Which makes the boss fight way easier.
@the8thark ok, I'll check it out! thanks! I thought the "1st" ending was good. The game made you feel like you were friends with the characters..
Grabbed my copy today; been playing for a few hours and I gotta say- I’m incredibly impressed. The fantastic voice acting, lush soundtrack and unique gameplay mechanics are just exquisite. I’m not heavy into JRPGs but this... this is something truly special!
This is a superb game, loving it!
Bought it for the Ps4 previously and the Definitive Edition when it launched for the Switch but never really played it after touching the demo.
Just dusted it off a day ago after plonking > 460 hours on DQB2 and watching DQ Your Story on Netflix - which made me wanting to resume picking up DQ XI S again...
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