Topic: Discuss: Is the Super Mario 3D series a natural evolution of the 2D series or a completely different animal?

Sorry if this has been talked about before, the search bar won't let me search for forum topics. I've been playing 3D World recently (haven't played Land... yet) and I am stunned at how refreshing it is. I feel like it takes the linearity of Mario's 2D games and elements from NSMB but adds exploration and game play elements we wouldn't have if it were stuck on a 2D plane. Would you say this is a needed progression from the New Super Mario Bros. series, or that both should coexist separately?

I wouldn't mind having 3 main series (NSMB, 3D, and Galaxy 3 or whatever the next game is). For sake of discussion though, could Nintendo realistically keep up with producing 3 main Mario games? Would the quality of any of the games drop, or worse, would this lead to uninspired rehashing of one or more series? Some people complain about there being too many Mario games and not enough of other IPs. If there are 3 main games focused on within a console period, this may take away developer, programmer, artist, etc. talents away from other potential non-Mario games.

I feel if Nintendo could only make 2, I'd pick 3D and the next 64/Sunshine/Galaxy-like game. Although one might ask, "why 2 3D Mario games?!" I feel like 3D World both satisfies and improves upon traditional linear game play, but I also want a more open world game like 64. Plus, Super Mario World and SMB3 have already come and gone and I fear there won't be anymore 2D Mario games as magical as those were.

So tl;dr do you think SM3L/W is an evolution of the 2D Mario games and has the potential to replace them? Or do you think both series should exist? Also which series do you like better?

I know there are those who love 2D platformers, maybe even more than the 3D ones, so maybe that will help open up discussion for different viewpoints. (also please don't hate me if you think what I'm saying is heresy ).

I feel like the 3D series makes NSMB obsolete, I wouldn't mind it serving as a replacement.

I've enjoyed 3D Land/World much more than the NSMB. They feel dull in comparison. I wouldn't mind if Nintendo ditched the NSMB series in favor of 3D-esque games. They could bring back the series later, but for now, its rode its course.

I would call the Mario 3D series an unnatural chimera that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Let 2D platformers do what they do well with their mechanics, and let 3D Platformers do what they do well with their mechanics. Don't make a hybrid.

And what DO the 2D platformers do that the 3D series can't?

I suppose I should answer the question, though. No, I don't feel it's an evolution. I think it's a hybrid, and a very good one in fact.

Of course, it does not serve as a replacement of other 3D games like 64/Sunshine/Galaxy, so perhaps it could be argued that it's an evolution? It's hard to say.

Have a time limit.

Wait Mario is an animal? I thought he was a plumber. O_o
That's what he evolved too? That isn't natural at all.

3D had a time limit, actually.

Quite a bit actually. In 2D, attacking is easier and dodging is harder, and there is a lot less area to explore. Making precise jumps is also more reasonable a challenge (hence why you don't see single unit blocks often in 3D platformers.

Because of this, 2D platformers can offer a focused experience on getting from point A to point B while avoiding or defeating enemies. Hence why you see 2D mario mechanics, which discourage risk taking and encourage precision and speed.

Putting a game in 3D, unless it's like an arena style game, automatically increases the role of exploration and adjusts the design of combat and placement of enemies.

I wouldn't call this hybrid bad at all @iKhan. Super Mario 3D World did alot of things well that the 2D games and the 3D games did as well. I think the only thing I say they really need to fix is the camera in Multi player though, that thing got in the way so many if me and my brother weren't being team players.

This is a good point to make. So what do you think would improve the 3D series in your eyes, or do you just prefer playing 2D platformers in general?

Remove the mechanics from 2D games. So make running analog, add a health meter back, and scrap the time limit. All of these things were originally changed in Mario 64 because they work against the conversion to 3D.

Oh and this is just a personal issue with the 2D games and the Mario 3D series in general, instead of powerups breaking the gameplay, have them enhance it. That's what I preferred about 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy's approach. They didn't go "Congrats! platforming and beating enemies is much easier now!" They presented a new set of challenges that worked into the level.

I love the gameplay designs for Galaxy and 3D World. I don't like the gameplay design of Sunshine and I know a lot of people who don't like the gameplay design of 3D World. Galaxy combines the gameplay elements of open world and platforming, so I think that's the best solution everyone can enjoy.

Just thought I'd let you know, Super Mario 64 was the way it was because of cartridge limitations. If the N64 used CD's instead of cartridges, the game would have played like 3D Land/World. So the Mario 64 we all know and love, wasn't the way Miyamoto intended it to be.

Gotta source? Because that's not how I've heard it. Nor does it make much sense.

[quote=PK_Penguin]

When I read this, all I could think of was the cat suit. I agree that the difficulty should be ramped up in the next 3D game and not make it so that having the cat suit makes the level easier. Though I enjoy the suit and hope it is used in future games. Hell, why not do like other games and have different difficulties? Easy, normal hard. Hard being the equivalent of Lost Levels.

Okay, I heard that that was how the game intended to be from a couple of videos on YouTube, but I couldn't find this information anywhere else, what I instead found that the game was just intended to be seen in an isometric view, not what I mentioned before. So I admit I was wrong with what I said earlier.

http://www.dromble.com/2013/09/21/nintendos-frustrations-with... - It's in the first paragraph.

But I still believe that Galaxy & 3D Land/World are great for people who don't want their Mario games to be too open like 64, or Sunshine, or too linear like the 2D games

Different beasts, and I think each have their place. I did like how in Super Mario Galaxy, they played around with some 2D elements in certain levels - it was an interesting and unexpected blend of new and old. But, the 3D games just FEEL different to me - I grew up with all of the 2D Mario games from Mario 1 through Super Mario World: 2, and their spirit, if you will, is vastly different from what Super Mario 64 brought to the table, and not just in terms of gameplay.

As much as I love Mario in 3D (as it had started with Mario 64), it was never the same. I always felt like I was playing Mario, but from an entirely different series. As much as I was wowed by the analog contols and large, fully explorable 3D environments, I didn't feel like I was playing a sequel to any of the previous Mario games and on a certain level, it actually kind of disappointed me. I felt like the jump was too great, too soon. Like, maybe a 2.5D Mario game in the vein of SMB3 or SMW was in order, with more bosses and overworld themes, sprites, the suits, Koopa Kids and the like. But, of course, that didn't stop me from getting 120 stars and finding Yoshi and just beating the hell out of it. I had fun. And, as time went on, I grew to love the 3D Mario games as much as their 2D counterparts, just in a different way.

The New Super Mario games feel like wasted opportunities to get back to where Mario had left off in the NES/SNES-eras. I enjoyed them for what they were, but they, too, felt like they were somehow very different from both the 3D and older 2D versions, in that - while the gameplay felt similar - the imagination and inspired feelings that the original 2D games gushed with was all but gone. It's like with the NSMB games, there's something missing, something intangible. That certain Nintendo magic. Enjoyable, but throw away experiences if you ask me.

So, now - in my opinion - there are THREE entirely different beasts if you count the NSMB series. Seeing as how I still can't even afford a Wii U this year, I haven't gotten around to playing any of the Mario games on that platform, so I can't really comment on those just yet.

How does Super Mario 3D World U hold up - is it closer to the old-school games, or the now-classic 3D iterations?

If I'm totally honest, I only want the 3D series. No NSMB or Galaxy/64, just 3D World style games. Sure, remakes of Sunshine and Galaxy would be fine though.

I'd say SM64/Sunshine are the natural evolution of the 2D games. 3D Land/World are a step up from 2D, but a step down from 64 and Sunshine