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Topic: Xbox One/Xbox 360 Thread

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Dezzy

@NEStalgia

For saying so many people badmouth FF13, it does still seem to sell quite well whenever it's put up for sale. It's like the third best selling FF game on Steam. Sold more than FF10 last I checked.

My only real problems with the game is that the story is incomprehensible nonsense and the game is incredibly monotonous. People always say the problem is the linearity. I don't think that's true. FF10 was just as linear and no-one complained about it. The problem is it's monotonous. The entire game of FF13 is run forward, battle,cutscene, repeat. Whereas FF10 had some towns, it had more mini-games, it had temples with puzzles, etc etc.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

NEStalgia

@Dezzy If FFXIII didn't have sequels I'm not sure the base game would sell so well. I sure as heck wouldn't rebuy it. But from what I've heard the sequels were much better....so if you're going to play the trilogy you may as well play the whole trilogy. The older games are, well...old. They're classics, but they age kind of so-so. I'm surprised 10 doesn't sell as well on PC though. I mean 13 hasn't been available for sale on any current gen console until now (and is technically XBox console exclusive now) so PC is the only way to get it, which probably has a lot to do with it. I'd guess most of X's sales are on PS4/Vita, not Steam, while all of XIII's sales have been on Steam if you don't want it on last gen consoles.

Well for an FF game to have an incomprehensible nonsense story....that's a huge problem right there. But you're right about the monotony. I never cared for mini-games in RPGs and kind of gagged when Square thought that's what people missed. But otherwise you're right. Towns, NPCs, dialogues, path finding/decision making, are staples of RPGs. SIDEQUESTS. 13 is one long hallway until you get to Pulse. There's no path choices to make, you always just hold forward. I think the tension of a classic RPG (using WoFF and Octopath as current examples) is choosing which way to go....the constant worry of risk/reward of trying path b over path c to find treasure, or a surprise quest.

RPGs are road trips stories. You go from town to town, settle in for a while, get to know the locals and terrain, and live a brief life there, questing, grinding, crafting, then you move to the next destination on teh trip. That's the formula that has always worked (or one hub town your whole adventure is based in.) 13 shed sidequests completely, shed path finding and decision making. You just go straight through the only pre-laid path available to the next scheduled battle. It's not a road trip, it's a high-speed train ride. Next stop: Shibuya. Or Pulse. Or something.

I hated that experience. So did everyone else. But the battle was actually really polished and flashy. I'm hoping going into it again with my expectations for what it is instead of what it was supposed to be will make me like it more. I periodically have random moments from the game pop into my head over the years....so that says something. Mostly it's a vehicle for two much better sequels. There's a reason it's $16 and the sequels are $20.

NEStalgia

Dezzy

@NEStalgia

And when you get to Pulse it doesn't even change the gameplay at all. You're still doing the same thing of running, fighting, watching cutscenes.
The only thing Pulse actually changes is that there's now a sense of discovery. And still no actual towns, unless you count that old abandoned place.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

NEStalgia

@Dezzy True, but even the sense of discovery/direction choosing made a huge difference. Trouble is it felt like it wanted to become a turn based MH at that point, and I was by then so burned out I was like "yeah, pretty, ok new game time."

Go figure, RPGs aren't just turn based combat games. Who knew? I'm wondering why I'm so excited to try it again

NEStalgia

Morpheel

Hm. Amazon MX has the Xbox one S bundles for about 300 dollars (20% off regular price).

I wonder if this will be it, or if it's a pre big sale trap.

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

Eh! My gameplay videos

3DS Friend Code: 0173-1330-0080 | My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

NEStalgia

@Dezzy It also doesn't help that the typical Square staff collissions were everywhere. The director cut towns because they weren't as graphically impressive as the rest of the game, and cancelled the quest area DLC because of PSN/MSStore differences.

And the producer went on record saying they weren't actually trying to make an RPG but to create a new type of genre, and said it was more of an FPS than an RPG......

When you hire a producer to pilot a mainline Final Fantasy game, and he openly states that he's not actually making an RPG at all, and is basing it more on shooters......you've got a problem. And then XV is just an ARPG.

Imagine hiring a producer for the next DOOM game that later says he was really trying to make it more like an RTS.....

NEStalgia

BrainOfGrimlock

I'll be very interested to see how you get on with the sequels to 13 NES', I bounced off XIII-2 after a few hours and never went back. Had similar feelings at the end of XIII the first time I played, but after reading an article a while later it convinced me enough to go back and do all the end game content which I enjoyed a lot more than the base game. That said though it still hasn't restored it (in my mind) to anywhere near the level of others in the series (but still place it above XV like you).

I guess that's why the series is always so good for a discussion (and i'm naturally mindful that this is the xbox, not FF thread!) as there are people who find something to love in each of them; I share a similar viewpoint to NES' in that I didn't enjoy XIII much, yet given a choice I'd take it over XV any day which in itself is interesting (for me) as I'd (casually) argue that XV has the better characters (at least no Hope or Vanille) with XIII (at least post-corridor/game) taking the gameplay crown...? Guess it shows just how much disdain I had for the overall 'drive around/waste my time' aspect of XV? Fwiw, I also agree with the suggestion others have proffered that XV does have all of the ingredients/potential to have been truly epic, just for lots of reasons it misses the mark and whilst there are certainly a few high spots it ultimately fails to deliver anything truly satisfying? At least for me anyway.

Glad they're all being ported across to all of the systems now regardless, obviously I share the "where's VIII?" wondering but it's VI I most want to see appearing everywhere; post-Octopath it's the one I want to replay more than any - there are lots of rumours about a remake though so if we're going down that road then I can 'wait and see', but I'll also then expect a shiny Chrono Trigger (not like that PC thing that turned up not so long ago!) and a proper 'Cross release!

Only other rabbit-hole then is where to re-buy the earlier games? They just smack of ideal switch titles for me but - as with Vita - I suspect I'll be re-buying them again in 4-5 years on whatever replaces it if I do... With the way MS are doing their thing now I'm pretty confident that anything I buy will still be playable on the Aardvark etc. but am I really going to sit in front of a big TV playing a 20+ year old JRPG? Hmm.

BrainOfGrimlock

Dezzy

NEStalgia wrote:

And the producer went on record saying they weren't actually trying to make an RPG but to create a new type of genre, and said it was more of an FPS than an RPG......

Lol that's the sort of idea that teaches you quickly why so many games fall into very specific pre-existing genres.
Most new ideas suck.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Morpheel

Amazon had the battlefield V special edition console bundle for about 100 dollars for like half a minute (the amount in pesos was missing a 0, 10899 -> 1899).

I wonder if anyone managed to buy it... And if they honored the price... Maybe it was a scammer or something.

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

Eh! My gameplay videos

3DS Friend Code: 0173-1330-0080 | My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

BlueOcean

All Final Fantasy XIII games are available for digital purchase already but they are not backwards compatible until later today, this is the first time that Final Fantasy XIII is available digitally on consoles.

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-gb/Product/FINAL-FANTASY-XIII/...

FINAL FANTASY XIII £11.99
FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 £14.99
LIGHTNING RETURNS FFXIII £19.99

Untitled

BlueOcean 2 - @NEStalgia 0

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

NEStalgia

@BlueOcean lol. Hey, i didn't bet against, i just said it was extremely unlikely but i want giving up on it . Last time i said that jax bet against me, and we got game sharing on switch

Glad you got it right though!

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

Wonder what time it goes live. I bought it this morning, but it's invisible on x1 still. Does ms do midnight local or Pacific time?

NEStalgia

BlueOcean

@NEStalgia I only do this because I know that you are a good person deep inside. The other thing was Final Fantasy VII coming to Xbox One. It's nice that you were wrong both times. So yep, lots of Final Fantasy on Xbox now.

By the way I am getting used to Chain of Memories. The gameplay is starting to click except in boss battles because they mix turn-based strategy with sound-speed real-time battles, it doesn't work. Now I understand why people just grind and spam cards, it's the only way. Outside boss battles I am enjoying the gameplay now (I am at Hollow Bastion). The whole game is recycled but the script is funny.

I wanted to wait for Final Fantasy VII Remake. I played the original on PC when I was a kid but I never finished it because I could not find the last CD, family... Square Enix cancelled the remake because they didn't like what they were seeing (what studio was making it?) and they confirmed that they had been busy with Kingdom Heart III until now, so I don't think that we'll see this remake in the near future (no way this is released for PS4 as they originally announced), which means I'll buy the original on Xbox next year and wait 5-10 years for the remake. It was the first Final Fantasy game that I played...

BlueOcean

Dezzy

BlueOcean wrote:

FINAL FANTASY XIII £11.99
FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 £14.99
LIGHTNING RETURNS FFXIII £19.99

They're dumb with their uncompetitive pricing. I paid £3 for 13-2 on ebay.

Edited on by Dezzy

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

BlueOcean

@Yosheel The official Black Friday on Xbox.com starts on Thursday and includes $100 or equivalent currency off on both Xbox One S and X bundles, which is amazing because the X bundles that I've seen lately cost the same as the console. I don't know about retailers though but you should check them too.

@NEStalgia I just checked the comments on this page including wall texts. I haven't played all the FF games but I like that they are independent and different. That makes them more divisive but it's better than if all of them were the same, in my opinion. For instance, I like the Dragon Quest games (haven't played them all either) but they are more homogeneous and not that memorable. I want to play all the Final Fantasy games but I'm not sure that I need to play all the Dragon Quest games. I played FF X and FF X-2 on PS4. I really loved X but X-2 is mediocre yet enjoyable (for me). I like that when they want to expand a game they make a sub-sequel but it's interesting how different they can be anyway. They get a lot of hate but I really respect and admire Square Enix.

Dezzy wrote:

BlueOcean wrote:

FINAL FANTASY XIII £11.99
FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 £14.99
LIGHTNING RETURNS FFXIII £19.99

They're dumb with their uncompetitive pricing. I paid £3 for 13-2 on ebay.

They are not as expensive as Mario Kart 8 DX or Tropical Freeze "DX" though.

I prefer to have them digitally and the X enhancements (4K and smooth performance at the very least) and the fact that I almost bought a PS3 for the FF games makes the price quite reasonable!

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

DarthNocturnal

Apparently, there's a F2P version of Dissidia NT launching on PS4 soon. The reception to NT has been a bit mixed from what I remember, so I guess this is a way to draw in more players. It makes me wonder if an XB1 release is in the cards. Although, given NT's focus on multiplayer... I think I'd rather have an HD port of Dissidia 012.

Beyond that, I hope they bring I-VI to Switch & XB1. Especially V. More need to be blessed by Gilgamesh's presence.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Morpheel

@BlueOcean
Right now they (Amazon) have several bundles for ~270 US dollars. Yes this is actually almost exactly 100 dollars cheaper than the normal full price here in Mexico.

I'm reading this is the same price they had for prime day earlier this year. So I'm not sure if they'll go lower for the "good weekend" (Mexican equivalent of Black Friday) this week.

But I guess there's nothing wrong with waiting three-four days.

Edit: I've looked around and everything points to it going down a little more. If not on amazon, at least on the few retail options I have. So... I'll sit here waiting.

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

Eh! My gameplay videos

3DS Friend Code: 0173-1330-0080 | My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

NEStalgia

@BlueOcean Haha, I'm the first to admit I'm glad I was wrong on both counts. I wanted to be wrong. I actually got hyped when they announced XIII (does this count as winning E3 in November?) went to the store to buy immediately, and forgot until I tried that I'd looked into it before and discovered it wasn't for sale. So this made my month (which is strange since I hated XIII the first time, but I've been waiting almost a decade to try it again.)

Regarding all this FF love, I read recently that Sony in fact was a stakeholder in Square-Enix. Apparently 6 months or so ago they divested their remaining shares. I'm not sure how much control they wielded over the day to day, but as both a major client/partner and as a stakeholdey tr it's easo imagine they had a disproportionate influence over decision making which might explain the history of FF & KH tied to Sony, as well as various other seemingly self destructive behavior at Square.

Chain of Memories: I'm glad you are starting to like it. I lack the fortitude to push through it. Someday I'll give it a try again. Like XIII after a while sometimes a game plays better once you know what to expect. My first attempt was enough to turn me off for a while

FFVII-R: I never knew what to make of that. The reveal footage seemed to scream "we have no idea what to do with this" and what we did see, I wasn't sure I wanted to see. Not long before, Square said in several interviews that they weren't going to remake VII because they felt that there was no way they could please everyone. If they changed it it would upset fans, and if they didn't change it it wouldn't reach new audiences. And that's a pretty wise choice. I was stunned and confused when they announced the remake....and dismayed when what we saw tried to make it this modern FFXV looking realistic thing that may or may not be an action game. Part of me was curious about it, and part of me is glad that it's dead. VII is a classic, and shouldn't be altered (Advent Children and Crisis Core did enough to "reinvent" it negatively.) That's a game I'd love to see remastered rather than remade. The graphics and controls have aged poorly. The original pre-rendering is lost to the ages. They need to rebuild the graphics in a modern engine, update the art, but keep the game the same, and streamline parts that don't. work. It's a classic that will keep re-selling, but I don't know that the cost of just updating and remastering it is worth it to them given the sales volume Square seems to expect from everything. Trying to make a new game of it seems like trying to remake Gone with the Wind for newer audiences starring Vinn Diesel and Taylor Swift. Or trying to make a Monster Hunter movie featuring fatigues and Humvees.

@Dezzy In the US it's $16, $20, $20..... I'm sure those prices are "priced for sale reduction" so they can, by February, put them on DwG sales. I'm just impatient and needed to pre-order by one day, a game that was released almost 9 years ago.... Technically the games, with their age are really worth $20 (heck they're charging that for 8-bit Undertale....) it's just it's old and nobody liked it so it's $3 used Plus since BC is all digital only, it's $3 for a manual unlock dongle or $20 for not needing one....I wonder if you still have to switch discs with the physical edition since it's not reading off the disc?

@BlueOcean FF: Yeah, I both like and dislike how all the FFs are different. Story and environment wise it makes each one stand out. On the other hand I think they've played too fast and loose with the formula and world building in a way that becomes nonsensical as it increasingly goes more for visual "wow" than a coherent world. Even the Fabula Nova Chrysalis was this pretentious but ambitious world construction idea, but they later admitted that presenting it through XIII alone was insufficient and lead to a confusing story that was poorly explained (it took him 7 years but Toriyama finally did admit it rather than blaming the fans and critics for "being used to Western open world games" and "not understanding the Japanese approach to games" That was a low point when that was the response to negative criticism, as though "being used to Western games and not understanding Japanese games" was a valid explanation for people not liking that it's less open than FFIV on the SNES. )

And yet, as you say, that's what makes each one a memorable journey. I can easily say that virtually any DQ is a far superior video game to any FF. The mechanics are more honed and refined, and they just play perfectly. In part because they're always the same. FF is always this odd mishmash of experimental systems. In that sense, DQ is a far superior engineered product, and FF is artwork. Controversial but timeless. With the exception of DQVII. That's a piece of art right there, and entirely unforgettable. The mood in that game is so heavy and dark despite seeming so light.

The culture clash between the engineers of Enix and the artists of Square probably explains a lot of their budgeting problems, too

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@DarthNocturnal You know, I love Dissidia NT. It's such a weird game, but so wondeful. I loved the demo in January and didn't get enough time to play it since it was the same weekend as MHW demo. I finally bought it on sale last week, but I'll never play it. I just don't see booting a PS4 to play it. Sure, old Dissidia was basically MH with FF characters, and this one is this weird 6-way team game, but it's cool. And it's just wasting away on PS4. Honestly what it needs is a Switch port. I can't imagine it doing well on XBox bu Japan alone with Switch would make it shine. And Nintendo wants to (for unimaginable reasons given Switch's mobility) focus on online........it's a perfect fit.

Unfortunately don't know how involved Sony was in creating/funding that game. The original arcade cabinet uses a weird modified DualShock controller.....not sure if they have any claim to the game or not. The original design was a standard fight stick setup. Obviously something prompted a change to a custom DualShock type controller to be licensed from Sony instead, and I'm sure that "something" wasn't "because it plays better that way"

NEStalgia

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