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Topic: GPD Win 2: The Most Powerful Handheld Ever Made

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JaxonH

@Ralizah
It's the exact same as the PS4 except in reverse. I don't know what 360 controller you had but I know the Xbox one controller is the best controller I've ever used in my entire life. I don't like the older generation Xbox controllers but the Xbox one controller is fantastic. The D pad literally put every other D pad to shame. If you haven't tried one I strongly suggest doing so because they just nailed it. Feels identical to a switch pro controller, except a higher-quality analog and a Dpad a thousand times better

Edited on by JaxonH

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Ralizah

@JaxonH I had the same 360 controller everyone else had. Its design was obscene. Putting aside the quality of the D-Pad itself, you had to stretch out your thumb to reach it, which made playing games with it incredibly uncomfortable.

As I said, putting the sticks further in makes more sense as they're elongated, and thus easier to reach. The sticks and the D-Pad are both easy to reach on a DS4, whereas they weren't on a 360 controller, and likely aren't on an Xbone controller, considering the layout is almost identical.

And yeah, the Xbox-ish design of the Switch Pro controller is why I'll likely never buy one. The joycons are better for 3D games, and if I absolutely need a D-Pad, I can use an 8bitdo controller.

Ralizah

KryptoniteKrunch

Looks like a neat device overall. Due to all the Switch games and few remaining 3DS titles, I probably won't get this for a while but it'll be hard to resist if/when it reaches the $300-$400 price range(or lower of course).

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JaxonH

If this device hit $400 I think it would capture a significant portion of the handheld market.

There is no way this device costs as much as they are asking. I'm not saying it's cheap but there's no way it's $700. $400 is probably more accurate. I think it's foolish of them to charge this much because while yes, they will make more money off the niche audience they know is already going to buy the product, they screwed themselves out of any chance of expanding their reach.

If they were smart they would at least launch at just $550 with a $450 price tag for those who back at indiegogo, with a price drop of $100 to follow Holiday 2019, and maybe later down the line hit that $399 mark. But as of right now the only people who are going to buy one are the enthusiasts like myself.

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Knuckles-Fajita

@JaxonH As I was saying, look how far in the right stick is on a 360 controller, from where your hand will rest on the controller itself. Yes, it fits within the normal motion of movement for a thumb.

Keyword there. Normal.

As I mentioned, hand injuries, so my right thumb and index finger have much reduced movement. So much in fact I can barely reach X on an Xbox pad.

I'm not nitpicking by the way. You'll notice these are very specific questions not pertaining to specifications or the Switch as competition, rather the reason one would buy a game on Switch when they could have it with likely better visuals, because Dolphin and mods are a thing, for free on a handheld with 10,000 games, as you have said, for double the price and what is by design, significantly better value, albeit with a higher barrier for entry.

And regarding my comments on controls, those are very important because...well how are you going to play the game? If its not comfortable you wont enjoy playing as much, that's a proven thing. Of course, the kind of controls you want will depend on the game, for instance there are games where keyboard and mouse are better due to mechanics and sheer volume of buttons. There are games where twin sticks are better, where analog triggers are better, a dpad is better, motion controls are better, its a game by game basis. Some games wont even use the right stick.

Reaching for the right stick on the Switch Pro Controller for instance, is uncomfortable for me, as such I only use it with Splatoon 2, where those movements are brief and infrequent (Because I die a lot as it happens!). If I was to use it in say, Zelda, no, I can't do that without pain. Same with using a mouse on a PC, too much Overwatch and I'm in pain after about 20 minutes.

The reason I can use the Joy-Con so well is simple. The buttons are directly below the sticks. Easy reach, and my thumb doesn't have to extend outward any further, which is what causes the pain.

On an Xbox 360 controller, where my hand rests and how far in the stick is on the right, combined with how raised it, is very uncomfortable, as my thumb simply isn't meant to stretch that far. My left hand can, since that one is uninjured, but my right hand? It's not meant to do that.

Looking at the GPD Win 2, yes good, the stick is on the outside, but taking into account how it looks its meant to sit in your hands, the position of the 4 face buttons are out of reach for me. Where my hand would sit to comfortable hold the admittedly rather thick device, would require stretching my thumb out further than it can move to reach two of the face buttons, maybe three.

To give you an idea of the distance my thumb can travel, take the Switch in handheld mode, with Joy-Con attached. My right thumb cant reach the screen.

And because you will ask for proof, I just know it, here you go. I can't fully outstretch my right hand anymore. It causes discomfort in my thumb's bone that isn't present in my right hand. I can rotate my left thumb just fine in a neat little circle, but not my right. For reference, it's a bone injury, and a scar running from my palm right around between my thumb and index finger, and down over the back of my hand right where the thumb meets my hand, and an instance as a child where I had my palm ripped open.

So yes, these controls should be fine for normal hands, and normal hand movements.

The reason I am asking you these questions is because you have experience with the device, and this is information I'd obviously like to know before making an informed decision on the device myself. Its not to defend the Switch, or bash it, or because its more powerful, no, I don't care about that. If I did, I'd be on my PC playing games 24/7 at Ultra settings because trust me I have the specs to do that.

In future, just like with my colour-blindness, I would really appreciate it if you understand and at least appreciate the fact that not everyone is going to be able to do what you do, or use things how you do, or see images how you do, because life isn't fair to all of us. Some of us having impairments that mean some games are unplayable without special modes, some controllers aren't comfortable, because our bodies don't work "normally". Yes, that control setup looks fine for someone with "normal" hand movement. But what about the rest of the world? What about the other 10%?

You're a religious man. What would the Good Book say about the disabled? Help them? They are no different to your normal man, correct? I am asking you these questions nicely. These are questions I really do appreciate the answers to for my own study, knowledge and understanding of this industry, and to make, in future, informed decisions about my purchases.

I don't buy any system without first seeing the controllers, your interface with the device, the primary method with which you control and receive information from your console. I want to see how they feel and if possible, feel them for myself. Just like if you came to me asking about a device you'd never seen before that I was really passionate about, I wouldn't "assume" you were asking questions in relation to another device out of spite or a need to defend something, but as questions from an inquisitive mind. Comparison gives a good estimation of what to expect and furthermore, if you ever did come to me wanting to know about say, the finest IPS displays in the land, I'd answer all your questions politely, even if it was a "Why would I do x if I already have Y", because that is part of understanding a device and broadening ones knowledge of a system.

I'm sorry if this seems ranty, believe me I want it to be, but there are questions I would like answered, and to be fair to you, you are indeed answering them, albeit in a condescending way when you assume my intent for asking them.

Also you've read my site. You know why I ask questions about commercial viability and what you would be willing to spend money on. That's my passion. Business and Economics. And obviously I would like to know, as I asked politely, if you'd buy Metroid Prime when you have it on a device already for free with better visuals due to modifications, with what will be by default a bigger library than the Switch will ever have. I was interested in finding if, and why, you would do that.

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6ch6ris6

@Ralizah really don't want to insult you, but i never ever heard anybody say that they had to stretch their thumbs to reach the d-pad on a 360 controller. what kind of thumbs do you have?? the 360 pad is widely regarded as one of the best controllers of all time with a perfect layout and design only to be succeeded by the xbox one controller. if you like the playstation design better...fine, but the only bad thing you can say about the 360 pad is the quality of the d-pad NOT it's position. with that logic it sounds like you have to stretch your thumbs to reach the analog sticks on playstation controllers.

btt
i think the win 2 looks very comfortable. it's hard to think of a better design for such a handheld that has to fit a full keyboard and a modern controller on one small device!

EDIT:
okay guys this is getting out of hand (no pun intended)
if anyone has trouble with certain controllers because WHATEVER...too bad.
i'm also colourblind and sometimes have problems in games when there are some stupid puzzles based on colours etc.

let's get more back to topic, shall we?

Edited on by 6ch6ris6

Steam: ACAB or 6ch6ris6
waiting for a pricedrop on switch

JaxonH

@YummyHappyPills
Alright maybe I misunderstood your intentions. Seemed like you were being very dismissive of one or the other and saying well, if you got it on this then why would you want it on the other, clearly inferior one... as if making it an "either or" proposition as if you have to choose one and hate the other. Over-complicating a matter that simply isn't complicated. They both have their usefulness.

Switch is going to be a far more luxurious experience, and can play as a home console and can play in tabletop mode and has tons of exclusives you can't play anywhere else. GPD Win 2 is going to be pocket portable and far more easy to carry around with you, and has a crap ton of games you're simply not going to be able to play on Switch. As for the games that would potentially be on both of them, it all depends on the game. Some will probably be better on the one, and some will probably be better on the other. I sincerely doubt we will ever see a single Gamecube game on Switch, but if we did, it would probably run far better then it would in Dolphin. I can't say for sure because we're talking theoreticals right now.

Personally I think it's a lot easier to play a game on a Switch than a PC based device. You just launch the game and play it. So I would probably gravitate toward playing any games that appear on both systems... on Switch. Unless they ran substantially better on Win2, like DOOM. But then again, depending how fast it boots and how good it's hibernation mode lasts, it might be quick enough on Win2 that it doesn't detract from playing. If the system will last a month in hibernation then I'll just leave that thing in sleep mode and lift the lid to play it, launch Dolphin and bam, there ya go. The downside is there are settings you have to set up the first time to get certain games running optimally. Because it is essentially a PC. Especially with the games that are demanding. A lot of people like to overclock their CPU, or even underclock to get more out of the GPU. But I don't want to mess with any of that. If it won't run a game sufficiently with vanilla settings out of the box I'm just not going to play that game.

All I will say about the controls is, if any of the 80 million people who played 3DS or Vita bought one of these, they certainly wouldn't have any issues.

Edited on by JaxonH

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Matt_Barber

From my experience with the GPD Win, you're generally all right with games designed for a controller on it. It's only when you're trying to play something that was really made with a keyboard and mouse in mind that you've got problems. The keyboard, although good for its size, is only really good for the occasional button press in-game, and you'd be looking at a device at least a couple of inches wider to have one that's any good for typing. Similarly, no mouse or mousepad means you're stuck with using one of the nubs or the touchscreen in its place and that lacks the speed and precision for a lot of games. So yeah, you can play a million PC games on it in theory, but unless you stick to the ones with controller support you're going to have some difficulties.

I'd still think that the more powerful SoC, upgradable SSD and improved battery life are good incremental improvements over the original model - and will bridge the gap for a significant number of games that simply don't play well on that - but this is far from the end of the road for the concept. I'd like to see it gain a trackpad, grow a little bit bigger - up to the size of the GPD Pocket - to allow for a fully usable keyboard, and get an AMD GPU (Nvidia would be even better but they're not making any x86 SoCs) before upgrading myself.

Matt_Barber

Ralizah

6ch6ris6 wrote:

with that logic it sounds like you have to stretch your thumbs to reach the analog sticks on playstation controllers.

You do. But sticks are elongated, thus being easier to reach. Also, one's thumb typically tends to rest in the middle of an analog stick, and you just tilt it in certain directions to move. You don't actually have to click in on the far side of the stick like you would with a D-Pad.

Most people who like the Xbox controller design don't typically care about the fact that the D-Pad is harder to reach.

JaxonH wrote:

If this device hit $400 I think it would capture a significant portion of the handheld market.

I doubt it. It will have no exclusives driving adoption, no brand recognition, no real advertising, games won't be optimized for it, and even at $400 it would still be priced out of that particular market. It would just be a more accessible niche product.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

JaxonH

@Ralizah
It's all relative. I don't think it would ever compete on the level of Nintendo. But I'm willing to bet you with a device powerful enough to run the games people have been wanting to run (GameCube, Wii, PS2 without any issues, 7th gen without any issues) it could sell millions, easily. There's 100 million people out there who by handhelds and I guarantee you at least five or 10 of them would be willing to shell out a few hundred bucks for a device like this IF the price was right.

I don't think any of their past units have ever sold anywhere close to 1 million, but there's always been reasons behind it. The last one was relatively unheard of and it had a handful of issues and it just wasn't powerful enough.

This one will never sell that much because the price is too high. Which is foolish of them because people are starting to talk about it, and it most definitely brings the goods.

You don't necessarily need exclusives unless you have a competitor. Right now there's no other device on the market that offers what this does Exclusives are great for choosing between two different devices that offer similar things, but if there's only one device that offers it, exclusives mean little. There's plenty of games that simply cannot be played on a handheld gaming device anywhere else. And certainly not with the comfort and convenience of a traditional gaming handheld.

Edited on by JaxonH

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Matt_Barber

Yeah, this doesn't compete at all with devices like the 3DS, Vita and Switch. If you're looking for a machine that'll just let you install games and play them with a minimum of fuss it'd probably come across as downright rank.

Still, there's been a long established niche market for highly configurable gaming handhelds that leverage emulation and compatibility with existing platforms for their games libraries. Some examples would be the GP32, Dingoo, Pandora and I suppose the Nvidia Shield. If you look at the GPD Win in terms of that lineage it makes a heck of a lot more sense.

Matt_Barber

JaxonH

The difference is quality of experience. Even the original, it caught word-of-mouth pretty fast, and it had all kinds of issues.

This one really looks to up the ante. With all the issues of the first gen Win resolved, and a remarkable jump in power, this device could position itself as the best handheld there is outside of traditional go-to handhelds, and even among most traditional go to handhelds. Which, let's be honest, are drying up fast. Vita and 3DS are pretty much spent, and Switch isn't exactly pocket portable.

If this early prototype is anything the judge by, this is going to be one heck of a handheld. Shield's problem was it couldn't run PC games. That's what killed it. That's what always kills these devices. They have to have games specifically made for them or they run Android. And then the few that did run PC were so weak they were practically indie machines.

I think this iteration of Win is where it really sets itself apart from the rest. It may never be mainstream or popular, but those things have nothing to do with quality of experience.

Edited on by JaxonH

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cheetahman91

I might consider getting one of these, but I really wish that the button layout was more like the Dualshock or even the Joycons, even if it means that the console will be a bit larger.

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Matt_Barber

I'd think that it running Windows 10 is a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, yes you do get access to an enormous games library and nearly all the best emulators. On the other, PC games come with more complex requirements and configuration options and the OS requires a certain amount of maintenance.

A lot of people who are already into PC gaming, particularly those who are used to getting games to work on hardware that's well below the recommend spec, will be quite capable of taking that in their stride. However, people who are used to console gaming and expect things to work optimally out of the box may be rather disappointed on it.

Matt_Barber

JaxonH

I know with the original GPD Win, it was a bit of a pain learning which games worked on vanilla settings and which games didn't, and because it was so much weaker it was definitely as you say- a bit troublesome.

But with this one being as powerful as it is, I think if you just stick to 7th generation games, most of them should run on vanilla settings. As long as you're not constantly trying to push the limits of what the device can handle, it should be very simple. Stick to 7th gen, GameCube, Wii, PS2 and retro emulation/indies.

The community will likely compile a list of games that run satisfactorily on vanilla settings, as well as what frame rate they were able to get on the device and so on. But I think it's powerful enough this time that that won't really be an issue for people who aren't trying to run current generation games. Although clearly, some current gen games will run, and run well. I'm sure the community will thoroughly document which games those are.

Edited on by JaxonH

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Matt_Barber

@JaxonH
It's clearly a big step up, but let's not get carried away. Anyone who's tried to play games on a Surface Pro tablet - which is broadly on a par with the Win 2 in terms of GPU power - will still find it to be a bit of a faff to get them working in a satisfactory fashion, and that's something with a decent-sized screen, a proper keyboard and a track pad. The extra power of the Win 2 will broaden the net a bit as to what will run, but I can't see it making a dramatic qualitative change in the experience for the most part.

The one thing that I'm really missing in the current GPD Win is the ability to upgrade the SSD. Heck, I'd drop a 1TB one in mine if I could.

Matt_Barber

JaxonH

That's the thing. The first one was so close to being able to run so many games. The test show they're getting an average of 2.2 times the frame rate of the first one. So games that were running at 13 frames per second are now going to run a satisfactory 30 frames per second. It was already able to run Dark Souls, Fallout New Vegas, etc. this new one gives it just the power it needs to become a seventh GEN portable.

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Anti-Matter

@JaxonH
Little question.
Is GPD Legal ?
I mean, is it NOT something like Pirated items such as R4 cartridge / Homebrew / Jailbreak / Cheap Fake Portable clones ?
And... i knew it was Made in China, country of Counterfeit goodies, so i have almost no trust with Genuinely Made in China products.

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JaxonH

@Anti-Matter

???

Of course it's legal. It's just a computer... A PC. I don't think any governments have outlawed owning a computer, as far as I'm aware.

It's a PC crammed into a handheld form factor with analog sticks and buttons built in.

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