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Topic: General Final Fantasy Thread

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Dezzy

NEStalgia wrote:

@Dezzy Name one thing done well with the release, starting with the announcement, right from the start of FF Versus-XIII FFXV?

Well that's not too hard.
1) Changing the name to XV was a good move. Given that it was so loosely connected to XIII anyway, and given that the XIII trilogy wasn't that well received by the general audience, it's hard to imagine the game would've sold 8 million copies if it was still called Versus XIII.

Ralizah wrote:

I really can't wait for The Zodiac Age on Switch. Final Fantasy XII reminds me a lot of Xenoblade Chronicles, but without a lot of the baffling and frustrating design choices often found in those games.

Without the great story and characters too!

Edited on by Dezzy

Converted from Sony to Nintendo during 7th gen and never looked back.

Snaplocket

@Dezzy Neither game had a great story or characters in any way. Xenoblade Chronicles has one of the most cliche casts and one of the most boring and predictable plots in an RPG that I've ever played.

Switch FC: SW-0930-5375-7512
3ds FC: 3539-8977-1109

Ralizah

@Dezzy I prefer the much more realistic and grounded political intrigue of FFXII to the bland revenge story-inscrutable metaphysical shenaniganry in XC.

The characters in FFXII aren't great, but Balthier and Fran are pretty neat and develop nicely over the course of the game. Also, it doesn't make me endure British Wakka the whole time like XC does. And, even if Vaan kind of sucks, he fades into the background over the course of the adventure, whereas Shulk, who develops poorly over the course of the game, is kept front-and-center.

Crucially, FFXII is a ton of fun. Very customizable characters. The gambit system is really deep and fun to mess with, even if it's gaming marmite. The mark system, especially, kept me coming back long after I would have quit other games: the combination of open world and Monster Hunter elements worked brilliantly here.

Not sure how I feel about that hidden superboss that takes, like, four hours to kill (I got bored after an hour and stopped fighting him in the PS2 version), but at least you can save in the middle of the fight!

Edited on by Delibheel

Ralizah

NEStalgia

@Dezzy Yeah, but the point is it was a disaster from day 1....it was announced as a XIII-spinoff before XIII even launched and ended up being 15, even though it was meant as a spinoff title, and really isn't suitable at all as a main-line FF. And now instead of TWO large FF series with TWO large audiences, they have a split main FF that's a mess. There was no reason to genre change FF. It was a known brand with a loyal audience, and there's no reason an ARPG spinoff FF couldn't run alongside it the same way Persona split from SMT. Instead they just turn FF into an ARPG, remove the JRPG from the main series...and now shifted that to Bravely and Octopath?

Everything about FF is a diaster. I can't help but wonder if the record sales of it are that it really sold well, or if the faithful just bought it 2-3 times because it was cheaper to rebuy it each time the "complete" edition came out than all the DLC. I know I've contributed to the sales 3 times now......and I still haven't even played it.... darn them for cancelling the last DLC.

@Snaplocket The cast was cliche but the story was endless plot twists. If you didn't find it exciting, I think you're burned out on Japanese storytelling in general. Of course if we're using FFX, FFXIII as a baseline for unpredictability, I feel the need to point out that nonsensical/incomprehensible/unpredictable are in fact, not synonyms.

@Ralizah I guess I can see not being into space magic though, which is what XC resorts to. It's interesting, but still more comprehensible than Sin, Jenova, and the Fal'Cies. Lack of that stuff is why I like IX so much. Cliche, but sensible.

British Wakka....lol...yeah....he must be the same character designer because he even looks like him. Hmm, why, when you describe XII does it sound like XV? Open world? Check. Monster Hunter? Check.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia FF7 is totally incomprehensible. The plot is a huge mess. But it's a... well-executed mess. An evocative mess. Like Xenogears, it's the right mix of bizarre symbolism, metaphysical concepts, disturbing imagery, psychological exploration, and narrative bullmucking to make the incoherent storytelling really land. I like to call this potent cocktail a game's "Evangelion Factor."

XII isn't actually any more open world than something like VII. The beginning and middle are quite linear, and even when the game opens up, it's segmented into zones. What makes it feel open world is the sheer amount of stuff you can do around the map during specific times, and the lack of a transition to a battle screen. It's very cool. Also, one of those few games that just gets better and better the further in you are.

Or I could just have rose-tinted glasses on. But keep in mind I practically 100% completed this game in an age when I didn't even finish 90% of my games.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

ReaderRagfihs

@Ralizah FFVII's plot was a mess, but you could sort of trick yourself into thinking you understood what was happening (until the ending, which was completely incomprehensible). It then turned into a huge mess once they started ruining it more games and expanded universe and all that.

The game itself is still great though. It's one of those games that I can overlook most of its flaws because I'm having so much fun playing.

Still waiting for Atlus to make Snowboard Kids 3

Wiimmfi Friend Codes: http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/wii/2019_wiids_friend_code_thread
Wii/DS games online post shutdown

Ralizah

DarthNocturnal wrote:

Doesn't the remaster have a toggle which lets you disable random encounters? If so, you can just disable them whenever you feel the need to search an area thoroughly. No need for battle load times.

Dezzy wrote:

The battle speed thing is different than the loading time. There's an option in the menu to make the general battle speed faster. Which is hugely beneficial.

Sounds like the changes made to the re-release of Bravely Default. Which... I'm mixed on. I dunno: turning off random encounters entirely seems like cheating. I did like the increased speed of battles, though, although BD required massive amounts of grinding, and I get the feeling FF9 probably isn't as bad in that regard.

Hopefully the FF9 remaster doesn't literally put cheating and god mode a button press away, with no way to disable it, like FF7 on the PS4. It's the reason I'm not sure I'll ever actually play it on there. I can't swear, in the depths of a heated battle, I won't be tempted to cheat to save my progress. And that... kinda ruins the game for me.

The sad thing is that it'll likely be the same on Switch.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Anti-Matter

@Ralizah
On FF VII, you can be a "God" by Mastering these specific Important Materias (Sneak Attack + Knights of the Round, Counter Attack + Knights of the Round, Counter Magic + Knights of the Round, W-Summon, MP Turbo + Knights of the Round, MP Absorb + Knights of the Round, Final Attack + Phoenix)
With these setting, you will have a God character, even you can beat Safer Sephiroth WITHOUT touching any buttons.

For FF IX, there is NO Multi hits at all like Omnislash / Lion Heart.
FF IX just only knew 1 Hit Only for each attack. Because of that, the HP for Bosses or Optional Bosses were NOT Exceeding than 100,000 points.

My Top 5 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (99 / 100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4 (95 / 100)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 with all expansion packs and DLC (93 / 100)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90 / 100)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90 / 100)

Switch Friend Code: SW-8364-7166-5608

NEStalgia

@Ralizah That's the best description of 7 I've ever heard. I still don't get why it works. I enjoyed it when I played it though that was long ago. And yet even reading what the story is today I still don't understand how I could have possibly tolerated it.

One thing is certain. The remake will take the story totally seriously and thus derail everything else good about the original.

@Anti-Matter I think that's one thing I liked about IX is it went back to basics in a lot of ways, and bosses weren't damage sponges anymore.

@ReaderRagfihs Yeah, that's my feeling of 7 and the universe too. The expanded universe is BAD...I never even made it through the PSP prequel. 7 was sensible up to the point when they start doing Jenova and the clones and the....ugh...it makes no sense. The fact that the big bad remains unexplained at all....tapping the energy of Planet...it's just weird. The fact that the planet is called Planet....that's like naming a dog "Dog".

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@Anti-Matter Right, I know that it's not horrendously difficult to break FFVII. But that's fine. That requires some level of effort and planning to achieve. It's not literally "Press L3 + R3 to become a god." The worst thing is watching people online defend it. "Have some self-control," I'm told. That's not the point. I shouldn't HAVE to exercise immense self-control to not break the game completely. Using all the tools available to me is a natural gamer instinct. It's like saying Pokemon games aren't overtly easy because you can technically execute Nuzlocke runs. Heck, NSMB isn't brain-dead easy: after all, why don't you have the self-control to play with your feet instead of your hands?!

(This rant obviously wasn't directed at you; I'm just annoyed that I can't fully enjoy my all-time favorite JRPG on PS4)

@NEStalgia Certain things only really work in FFVII because it's an early 3D game and thus still kind of silly-looking. I guarantee you that they'll ruin the Honey Bee Inn. They'll ruin the fun cross-dressing section. They'll ruin the awkward "date" you can go on with Barrett. And the realism will ruin stuff like the Dolphin Jump minigame. What about Red XIII disguising himself as a human?

Ugh.

Yet, I'm still getting FF7:R (should it ever actually release) day one. I can't not, y'know?

I've never actually watched or played any of the supplemental FF7 media, though, and I don't plan to. FF7 is perfect in its own little way, in its own particular context. Making it a movie or designing an action game around a side character just doesn't work for me.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Snaplocket

@NEStalgia I think FFX and FFXIII had pretty decent stories (albeit with some problems). Yes, the expanded universe was a terrible idea but Crisis Core was actually pretty great (better then base VII in my honest opinion).

Switch FC: SW-0930-5375-7512
3ds FC: 3539-8977-1109

Ralizah

@Snaplocket FFX's broad strokes are OK. I like the religious pilgrimage aspect of it. The ending gets a little loopy, though. And, in general, I didn't care for most of the cast, or the forced romantic aspects.

FFXIII is terrible (the plot itself isn't horrendous, but the fictional terminology, story pacing, and setting certainly are), and its characters all look like obnoxious millennial hipsters. Snow even wears a friggin beanie! GOD, I hate that game.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Anti-Matter

@NEStalgia
Speaking about FF IX...

Ark FF IX actually did 3 Hits Attack from his Eternal Darkness (Multi beams + Mega Beam with Magical pattern + Mega Blast) & it displayed just only 9999 ! (So, each hits = 3333 damage ?? )

Eternal Darkness should be 3 x 9999 = 29997 damages in total. And that's why we dare to death to beat Ark in order to get Pumice stones to summon Ark. What's so different with Bahamut (1 Hit Mega Flare = 9999) if Ark do 9999 damages in total from 3 Hits Attacks Eternal Darkness ?

My Top 5 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (99 / 100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4 (95 / 100)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 with all expansion packs and DLC (93 / 100)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90 / 100)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90 / 100)

Switch Friend Code: SW-8364-7166-5608

NEStalgia

@Ralizah I'm already expecting a Batman-Gotham looking Honey Bee Inn......

Wait, what's this about breaking the game on PS4 easily? And the cross-dressing will be modified to act as a political statement, guaranteed. Because before it was used as a laugh, and that was ok, but now laughing at it is unacceptable, so it will need to be social commentary.

I avoided most of the VII expanded content but did try to play Crisis Core since it's a proper prequel. But...I just...couldn't. Part of it is the limitations of PSP.....PSP's limitations ruined a lot of games that should have been better, IMO. To be fair it has some great moments, but the overall gameplay fell short with it's grindiness.

@Snaplocket FFX is one of those things that has a great concept but is apparently when someone decided that Jenova was a good idea and similar nonsensical themes should be present in every FF game. It would have been a great game had the ill defined and often self-contradicting time traveling epoch based Sin made more sense. Opening with a character from the past that technically isn't even just sets up terrible confusion later. Unlike Ralizah, I don't mind the cast (Wakka aside) and the romantic aspects which make sense....but the ending or the whole loop of Sin/Zanarkand was just not well thought out. It's a Mcguffin to fit a narrative that they then tried to make the narrative....

But it's still better than XIII that never actually explained anything about the world, it just threw it at you as if you knew it. Nomura did later admit that they had this grand plan for the world spanning many games, and perhaps using one game to try to cram in all that world building wasn't the best way to go about it. I think it looked better on storyboards than it did in motion. The world is kind of cool, but gameplay problems of railroad tracks aside, they throw you in a world you know nothing about, they don't explain it to you, they keep bringing up specific terms, non-stop, that you don't know the implications of, and then they just keep going. You need to understand the rules of the world to understand who is what and why you should be interested. And they didn't do that. They had flashy graphics, vocab without meaning, and you just went through assuming someday they'll tell you. And they really don't. (That applies to base XIII, the two sequels fix a lot of things wrong with it but nobody played them because the base messed it up too much.) It helps to know the dev backstory that Fang and Vanille were supposed to be the protagonists and Fang was supposed to be a guy, and Fang-bro and Vanille were supposed to have a romantic interest instead of Snow/Serah. The world and storytelling makes a lot more sense when you realize Lightening isn't supposed to be the lead at all, Fang is the wrong character and it's really supposed to be a story opening with Fang. They changed it to Lightening because "she looks cooler like they want a female protagonist in a modern game to be." And who knows why they gender-bent Fang. Ugh. They broke the story for politics and demographic appeal. The definition of story-by-focus-group.

@Ralizah Not sure if you gave 2 and XIII-LR a try or not. LR surprised me. My thought a few weeks ago when I tried it was "Wow, somehow Snow became cool, and....ok Hope is still a brat, but I no longer want to strangle him, he's almost normal!" The game opens with a very dark turn for Snow which makes him very interesting finally. And hope seems human. I can say that without even gagging!!

My favorite in the first game though is Vanille's accent. Sometimes it's Australian, sometimes it's American, sometimes it's neither.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia Somehow, BotW got away with comedic crossdressing with almost no drama from the progressive crowd. I bet the game won't have all the great dialogue choices it did in the original, though.

It'd better have that scene where Hojo, the insane mad scientist working for ShinRa, is randomly lounging on the beach in Costa del Sol.

I haven't tried the XIII sequels. I've heard they're better, but, honestly, I dislike the original enough that I doubt I'll ever get around to them. Maybe once I've played all the other decent JRPGs in the world.

Ralizah

NEStalgia

@Ralizah I'm betting they'll have Hojo on the beach but it will be all serious, mob movie style, or like the intro of Just Cause 3. In fact they'll just borrow that scene and replace Rico for Hojo. They'll make it dramatic like his evil plans (Sony branded cell phone in hand) are being concocted from luxury.

All these locations and characters worked only because it was all comic-cartoon style with PS1 rendering. They just don't work in a modern game without becoming FFXV.

From what (little) I've played of XIII-2 and XIII-LR, they are PHENOMENALLY better than XIII. I'm not going to say they're FFIX, they aren't. But they are substantially better and much more enjoyable (LR massively changes the battle system into a sort of real-time, sort of ATB kind of thing...it's an interesting shakeup. 2 just refines the original system which was already good.) They don't get much love though because most have the same thought about it you do. Including me, until I got back into it with X1 BC. I'm not hating the main game as much because I know what it is this time and am accepting their idea of "it's not an RPG it's a new type of game, more inspired by FPS" (producer's actual quote about it not having RPG elements....) ....but the sequels are what drove me to want to try it again.

I'm almost starting to genuinely like XIII as a quirky, odd, "how Japan does shooters" (a.k.a turn based RPG battles) game rather than lamenting "but it's not FF."

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@Anti-Matter You don't get summons until so late in the game with IX that I barely remember them except Shiva and Ifrit which I spammed like crazy in the last area

NEStalgia

Dezzy

NEStalgia wrote:

From what (little) I've played of XIII-2 and XIII-LR, they are PHENOMENALLY better than XIII. I'm not going to say they're FFIX, they aren't. But they are substantially better and much more enjoyable

Gameplay-wise XIII-2 is miles better. The story is still a bit of a mess though. It has that same annoying problem the original had where the plot is based on a string of abstract concepts, none of which you have any direct experience of in the game.
I'm not sure why they thought this was a good type of story-telling throughout this trilogy.

Converted from Sony to Nintendo during 7th gen and never looked back.

Anti-Matter

@NEStalgia
"Fang was supposed to be a guy."
What?! 😲

Btw, in my opinion, FF X = Final Fantasy Harajuku. Do you know Harajuku ?
Harajuku is a wild style of Japanese fashion. The style tends to be unusual. Just take a look the costumes of the characters, from Tidus, Yuna, Wakka, Lulu, etc. Very Couture, very unusual, unlike FF VIII Fashion style (Very Elegant yet simple).

My Top 5 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (99 / 100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4 (95 / 100)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 with all expansion packs and DLC (93 / 100)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90 / 100)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90 / 100)

Switch Friend Code: SW-8364-7166-5608

Dezzy

Ralizah wrote:

@NEStalgia Certain things only really work in FFVII because it's an early 3D game and thus still kind of silly-looking. I guarantee you that they'll ruin the Honey Bee Inn. They'll ruin the fun cross-dressing section. They'll ruin the awkward "date" you can go on with Barrett. And the realism will ruin stuff like the Dolphin Jump minigame. What about Red XIII disguising himself as a human?

Good points. Quite a few of those will be hard to replicate with a more realistic tone to the game.
Some of them will be fine if they make adjustments, others probably won't.
Hard to see how they could do Red XIII dancing around on his hind legs dressed as a human.

Converted from Sony to Nintendo during 7th gen and never looked back.

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