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Topic: The Chit-Chat Thread

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HobbitGamer

Welcome to The Chit-Chat Thread, where all the internet browsers suck.

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

ThanosReXXX

NEStalgia wrote:

@ThanosReXXX It has nothing to do with how difficult the steps are or not. The point is it is not a default. It is not an easily findable presented non-default.

I'm going to try this one last time: IT... IS... NOT... A... DEEP... DIVE. And it IS easily findable. All it takes is typing "about:config" in the browser's address bar and you're there. My father could do it, and he's a complete noob where things like these are concerned.

It's "hidden" settings for those features that are critical to the whole point of "safe, secure, private" they advertise. What this means is that the overwhelming majority of Firefox users, including business are not getting a "safe, secure, private" experience, they're getting a Chrome-like experience. The majority of those users are not deep diving the config, finding obscure settings named for their object property not a user-facing description, so that only those in the know, only those looking for said settings, only those searching tech sites to find out about the settings are going to know they need them, know they exist, and know where to find them - meaning it's only a "safe, secure, private" browser for hardcore geeks in the know, not for the masses as presented. Defeating the entire point of the Mozilla Foundation from its inception. Worse, getting into said console requires clicking on an "I accept the risks!" click-wrap for "this may void your warranty." "Only continue if you are sure of what you're doing."

That disclaimer is of course nonsense, unless you're THAT stupid, that you REALLY don't know what you're doing. But the fact that you'd potentially be willing to go to that specific page, already indicates that your either willing OR able, or both, so I think it's safe to say that we can disregard that message, and just see it as similar to Windows' pop up messages asking you if you're sure that you want to close something, and then giving you another pop up to make sure that you're REALLY sure...

It's not about how many clicks it takes.

It is, if you're going to continue to whine about how difficult it is to get to, how much of a "deep" dive it is, and so on. None of which is true, so that was simply my point with that specific remark. What the hell is the difference if I have to flick a digital switch in a settings menu, or switch a value in a hidden menu that's just as easily accessible? Both take the exact same amount of steps, and both are equally easy to do. That one isn't instantly visible, is completely irrelevant. Just because you can't see a door knob, doesn't mean that the door can't be opened...

It's about the where it is, how it's presented, who is realistically going to access it, and who isn't, and watching the browser that most of the user base is using gradually morph into just another Google/MS/Apple surveillance product, no doubt, intentionally. And it's not just me making a big deal out of it. A significant part of the kind of people who do deep dive into that menu that have been part of, or contributors to, Mozilla over the years, free-software advocates, etc, have been railing against these changes for years! Let alone all the add-on developers that abandoned ship when they FORCED moving to the Chrome add-on system and abandoning half of what made FF configurable. And atop all this, the mandatory signing of add-ons that cause the weekend nightmare, along with many, many other user choice settings don't exist even in the advanced config anymore. If they really don't want you to access something, they turn it off completely in the stable/release builds. The only way to get to them is to use the nightly builds. "User choice," indeed.

Did I mention Google sits on the board? Because Google sits on the board. Can you tell?

Yeah.... okay. I'll agree on that last bit. I don't like Google meddling with it. I chose Firefox for a reason. Multiple reasons, actually. One of the more important reasons being that it's not Chrome, so if that is indeed what it's slowly turning into, then I'm probably going to stick to my outdated, non-Google infested version for the rest of my life.

Or I'll be looking out for another great alternative. Who knows, perhaps all these contributors that are now railing against all this, will come up with their own solution at some point. Perhaps a spiritual successor to the REAL Mozilla Firefox. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Well, that's about all I have to say about it. Feel free to (strangely) disagree with my undeniable logic, as I'm all but pretty sure you will.

@AlohaPizzaJack Yeah, sorry for the tech rant. After having dealt with stuff like that all day in the office, it's probably not what you're looking for on a game site forum page. Maybe I'll put up a disclaimer beforehand next time...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

HobbitGamer

@ThanosReXXX Haha, ya'll know I don't really care. I just like to insert my dry quips

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

ThanosReXXX

@AlohaPizzaJack Ah, fuzz... kinda lost my edge in the middle of all this. Here, have some pineapple and shut it, you nasty devil...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

NEStalgia

@ThanosReXXX Typing the "cheat code" and hitting the accept through the "warning" to get to a list of cryptically named settings is a deep dive. Again its' not about how simple it is for me to do. It's about what percentage of the total Firefox user base will be doing that or even believes they should? Which is the point. They throw you a bone to shut you up, and keep stiffing the masses by speaking out both sides of their mouths. They'll live without your data. They have millions of others.

"t the fact that you'd potentially be willing to go to that specific page, already indicates that your either willing OR able, or both,"

That's kind of my point - most aren't! And Moz knows that.

"the difference if I have to flick a digital switch in a settings menu, or switch a value in a hidden menu that's just as easily accessible? "

There's a massive difference to any user that doesn't know that setting is there to begin with, and is uncomfortable with accessing menus walled behind "I accept the risks!" buttons. Which is most users. But worse is that the "private" browsing experience that they are telling most people they are downloading on the website requires doing all of that to actually receive...those settings should be default. DISABLING them should require the deep dive. I mean not only is telemetry on, "Studies" are on by default. That is, they can PUSH software to you that will run as a study to collect telemetry of the results from users. I'd call that a virus. From the "private" browser. That's in the user-facing privacy settings to disable. For now. I wonder what version they remove that and hide it in about:config as well? For a simplified user experience, of course. No need to bother the infant public with pesky questions about if you'd like to disable the perfectly safe, product improvement features!

It's not about what I can or can't do with it. It's what is slowly being forced on the entirety of the user base, with some tools still available for those "in the know" but what does being "in the know" matter if the end result is 90% of the planet still providing 4 companies every detail of everything they do? We don't need to be screwed personally. Unfortunately in the "connected world" if everyone else is a moron and gets screwed, we're swept in the tide with them and have to conform to the consequences of their failure. Instead we just look like crazy people shouted down for our tin foil hats, and in the end, all the effort was meaningless as we pay the price for their stupidity anyway.

NEStalgia

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia Pffff.... man, you're making it TERRIBLY hard for me NOT to textually beat the crap out of you...

I'm almost under the impression that you're about to grab your torch and pitchfork, and rally a march towards Mozilla HQ...

I guess that we can safely surmise from all we've discussed so far, is that you and I have a VERY different understanding of the term "deep dive"...

For me, it means that it would be necessary for someone to have a high skill level or understanding of the technical workings of software, and the manipulations of it. Accessing a menu that ANYONE can access at will, does NOT constitute that, much less simply having to click on a value to change it from true to false or the other way around.

That's not a deep dive, that's dipping a careful toe into the pool, making a virgin's effort into programming (if even that), nothing more, nothing less. And the how to's can be found all over the web, and on YouTube, with step by steps and pretty pictures for the real simpletons.

Heck, there's even completely free, and fully automatic add-ons that handle these things for you. I've got several installed, such as the targeted advertising cookie opt-out, for example.

And mind you, I'm no die-hard tech fanatic either, so if I can do it, with my average IT skills, then so should at the very least 50 if not 75% of all Firefox users. After all: it's the Firefox community itself that is helping to come up with these solutions for these very users in the first place.

We completely agree on the forced stuff bit, so let's drop that part. Like you, I don't want Firefox to turn into some kind of Chrome subsidiary.

Anyway, nuff said. I'm out. It's been a long day over here, so time for some more leisurely activities...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Anti-Matter

Meanwhile, i'm playing this game right now...
Untitled

My Top 6 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4/Switch (95)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 + All contents (93)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90)
6. Animal Crossing New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo 3DS (89)

Switch Friend Code: SW-8364-7166-5608 | 3DS Friend Code: 2638-4872-0879 | Nintendo Network ID: TAGunderground

Octane

Playing a Metroid game.

#livingontheedge

Octane

ThanosReXXX

@Octane Ooh, anti-shooter man is playing first person shooters. Edgy indeed...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

HobbitGamer

Exactly! The browser debate raged as our boy Anti has been playing a space shooter! Priorities, folks! 😜
Also, had to have my bank cancel my debit card this morning after finding one of those $1.00 phishing charges. Luckily the replacement should be here tomorrow, and all my bills are direct pay from my bank. I think only my NSO sub is recurring against a card, in September. I’ll have it just in time to get my truck back.

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

NEStalgia

@ThanosReXXX How are you possibly in tech sales with such little understanding of the typical user?!?

@Octane It's Federation Force, that's dangerous to be seen with in Nintendo fan sites......Anti's a true rebel. #nofear #yolo #nofilter

@AlohaPizzaJack Oh geez, that's painful.....been there....let me guess, you buy on PSN?

NEStalgia

Eel

Let's not ruin his new interests by over-teasing him.

Bloop.

My dead channel.

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

HobbitGamer

@NEStalgia Nah, I know better than to trust Sony. (At least Google, Amazon, etc straight up tell you they're not safe ) it was some "samsclub.com arus" thing in the ledger. Haven't been to Sam's in 10 months. Only thing I've done out of the ordinary was order that PCM for the pickup, and go to a gas station I haven't used in a bit. It's all good, though.

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

NEStalgia

@AlohaPizzaJack I don't know, when Sony screwed me I was buying stuff at a Walmart in the midwest, and WoW characters in Malaysia.....

NEStalgia

Tyranexx

@ThanosReXXX Not with XP. Those stories I've heard secondhand. When I had somewhat of a support role along with my other duties, I did have to convince a client we worked with to upgrade their Windows Vista "server" back when the extended support for that was about to end. They thankfully upgraded, but only to Windows 7. I heavily hinted that they should get a proper server since their "server" was also a work station, but apparently saving money is more important. shrugs

This is the same company that complained to us at one point for allegedly shutting off access to our software early (there was a payment notice out, but the product they were using hadn't expired yet). The real issue was that this was around the time where Microsoft was forcing heavily encouraging users to upgrade to Windows 10. Their "server" upgraded itself, and the upgrade also shut off the services to SQL Server that they needed. THAT was the real, easy-to-fix issue.

I don't think I've ever spent so long proofreading an email that both explained what happened and said that we weren't at fault as nicely as possible. The lady I normally dealt with was nice enough, but her boss...not so much.

Edited on by Tyranexx

Video Corner: How SM3DW Actually Started (language)
Currently playing: Metroid: Samus Returns, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

Nintendo Network ID: Zelda_By_Night

Anti-Matter

@AlohaPizzaJack
Yo!
I have finished Mission 6 (M06: Infiltration) just now. 🤓
Untitled
Untitled
Untitled
Well, not bad for a 1st person shooter beginner. 😏
Btw, i have Failed once during Mission 6 due to fell down into acid pool because i suddenly forgot to press B button for jump. 😅

Time to sleep.
It's already 00.30 a.m. here.
Good night... 😴

Edited on by Anti-Matter

My Top 6 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4/Switch (95)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 + All contents (93)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90)
6. Animal Crossing New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo 3DS (89)

Switch Friend Code: SW-8364-7166-5608 | 3DS Friend Code: 2638-4872-0879 | Nintendo Network ID: TAGunderground

NEStalgia

@Anti-Matter Are you playing solo or finding online randoms? I found that game really difficult even with 2 players. It really seemed balanced for full squads only!

NEStalgia

bimmy-lee

Hey. It’s been a while, so I thought I’d stop by and say hello. I see nothing has changed. Dogs and cats living in harmony together and @Anti-Matter shooting stuff. Is @ogo79 still a beast?

limby-bee was a jerk.

My Nintendo: RedNestor

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia I'll ignore that veiled [email protected] comment, seeing as I have only ever been in business 2 business sales, and most people/clients I spoke to, knew more than enough about the hard- and software they were working with, to be able to handle some pretty damn basic settings, even if they weren't instantly visible...

But let's just move on, seems like we're going in circles anyway, and I like to keep things positive.

So, how about that Tiger Woods, huh?

@Tyranexx Yeah, well... what company does NOT like saving money? But I've also had those kinda discussions, back when I was selling server racks and blade servers for Hewlett Packard. The trick always being that you should learn/master have the skills and the patience to play the long game, and let the other party see the bigger picture and the long term benefits.

In the case of the story you just mentioned, I would have been all over that guy, explaining to him that he'll be saving far more money by upgrading sooner, because part of (or most of?) his software is either going to be end of life or incompatible soon, and subsequently, so might access to his database, which could, or in this case apparently did, cause the SQL Server issues.

Kinda like scaring them into a sale... But a quality one, nonetheless, that they themselves would definitely benefit from as well, meaning I would have created yet another very satisfied customer, who I could safely bother for even more stuff, over the years to come...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

Anti-Matter

@NEStalgia
I played Solo with Lone Wolf MODs.
Can you see the third picture above?
I was very Defensive player, so i equipped with something Defensive (Lone Wolf + Auto-Revive)

My Top 6 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4/Switch (95)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 + All contents (93)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90)
6. Animal Crossing New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo 3DS (89)

Switch Friend Code: SW-8364-7166-5608 | 3DS Friend Code: 2638-4872-0879 | Nintendo Network ID: TAGunderground

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