I think a big part of the problem is that Nintendo is a toy company that got into gaming. They are fundamentally not an online services company, and for a long time disregarded online services as something they had tried and failed with back in the 1980s, what with the Famicom Modem and Satellaview.
Microsoft, on the other hand, has been doing online since the original Xbox and is basically a cloud services company that does gaming on the side as a secondary core business at this point. They have a lot more resources to throw at making a robust product, and a lot of experience with what doesn't and doesn't work in this space. It's also worth remembering that Gabe Newell is a former Microsoft employee that left to do his own thing ages ago, which should give you an idea of how Microsoft teaches its employees to think about this stuff.
Sony, on the other hand, is an entertainment company involved in music and movies, as well as electronics. They relied on DVD player functionality and later Blu-Ray functionality as selling points for their consoles. They really didn't have that much competence with online services initially either, but they saw the writing on the wall much earlier because of having a foot in the music and movie industry where all this happened already.
Considering all that info, it's really not surprising to me that Nintendo is struggling with this, especially since they do want to keep all this in-house and don't want to partner with a company like Google or Microsoft to build their online service for them (and indeed really can't because they are in competition with the gaming divisions of all major cloud service providers).
@Yogsoggoth There's also the possibility he meant "Can you think of the worst Christmas present?" As in, the worst one possible, rather than just one that's a bit worse.
I'm done with Nintendo. This is a shameful product that breaks any game that uses Joy-Con gestures just to save a measly inch of space so you can put it in a jacket pocket or something. I thought it was a stupid product when I heard about it because I knew they couldn't save much room, but they made the bad sacrifices to save the small amount of space. They could have released the Switch without a dock here in the US like in Japan, but nope, they had to give us this gimped POS. This never would have happened under Nintendo's previous management, I guess this is what happens when you put the replace the President of a company with the CFO.
To be fair, this isn't that crazy an assumption to make if the person hasn't played any pre-DKC Donkey Kong games. All of the Donkey Kong games between DKC and DK64 had Rare's name on them, so it's an easy mistake to make. I was actually unsure whether Nintendo would keep the rights to the DK stuff Rare made, or whether they'd only keep the original Donkey Kong and DK Jr. designs.
@KingdomHeartsFan I think you're overreacting a little? Can someone not say they think a company is focused on specs to the point of ignoring creativity and fun without it being considered "attacking" them? I don't see how expressing a personal opinion is trashing or attacking anyone. Maybe it's constructive criticism and he thinks things like Kinect and PlayStation Move should have been explored further rather than being scrapped.
It seems to me that all he said was that the PS4 and Xbox One focused more on improved specs while Nintendo focused more on creativity and innovative use of older technology. I don't see how that's an insult to Sony or Microsoft to say that the market was ready for something different after several years of emphasis on two very similar consoles.
Especially when the argument could be made that people were burned out on innovative concepts like the Wii and Kinect after the 7th gen ended and were more in the mood for a traditional console. These things go in cycles.
He didn't just outright say "Microsoft sucks," or "Sony sucks," or talk about the consoles being bad, he just said that he personally thought they weren't a lot of fun, and if you enjoy novelty or a significant change in control scheme each generation, then that's a fair position to take.
As good as the PS4 and Xbox One are in terms of library and technology, they're evolutionary rather than revolutionary... the controller in your hand is mostly a refinement of what came before, and some people might find that boring if they've been playing the same old games using that type of controller since the 6th generation.
I personally enjoy both the Switch and the PS4, but for different kinds of games.
@dazzlerJJD In my opinion, Nintendo has not really been a full participant in a generation since the Gamecube as the 6th generation console. Here's how I see their efforts:
Up to this point, everything makes sense, right? But then... this happens. Keep this Gunpei Yokoi quote in mind, “The Nintendo way of adapting technology is not to look for the state of the art but to utilize mature technology that can be mass-produced cheaply.”
Wii: 6.5th generation (The Wii is a souped-up Gamecube with motion controls, not a serious evolution in terms of hardware. It is to the Gamecube what PS4 Pro/Xbox One X are to the PS4/Xbox One)
Wii U: 7.5th generation (The Wii U is similar to the Xbox 360 and PS3, but has more RAM and emphasizes graphics over raw CPU power to a crippling degree so it can power two screens)
Switch: 8th generation (Sony and Microsoft released 8.5th generation consoles that are backwards compatible, and Nintendo is taking advantage of the work done on the scaled-back modes available for the original Xbox One to encourage third-party games games to scale back just a bit more and release on Switch for the portability)
So basically, Microsoft and Sony finally did this generation what Nintendo has arguably been doing since the Wii, and the new console by Nintendo is like an entry-level 8th gen console relying on mobility as a selling point.
Comments 6
Re: Soapbox: Why Can't Nintendo Offer Both Virtual Console And Switch Online?
I think a big part of the problem is that Nintendo is a toy company that got into gaming. They are fundamentally not an online services company, and for a long time disregarded online services as something they had tried and failed with back in the 1980s, what with the Famicom Modem and Satellaview.
Microsoft, on the other hand, has been doing online since the original Xbox and is basically a cloud services company that does gaming on the side as a secondary core business at this point. They have a lot more resources to throw at making a robust product, and a lot of experience with what doesn't and doesn't work in this space. It's also worth remembering that Gabe Newell is a former Microsoft employee that left to do his own thing ages ago, which should give you an idea of how Microsoft teaches its employees to think about this stuff.
Sony, on the other hand, is an entertainment company involved in music and movies, as well as electronics. They relied on DVD player functionality and later Blu-Ray functionality as selling points for their consoles. They really didn't have that much competence with online services initially either, but they saw the writing on the wall much earlier because of having a foot in the music and movie industry where all this happened already.
Considering all that info, it's really not surprising to me that Nintendo is struggling with this, especially since they do want to keep all this in-house and don't want to partner with a company like Google or Microsoft to build their online service for them (and indeed really can't because they are in competition with the gaming divisions of all major cloud service providers).
Re: Random: Remembering When One Company Ruined Christmas For Some NES Owners
@Yogsoggoth There's also the possibility he meant "Can you think of the worst Christmas present?" As in, the worst one possible, rather than just one that's a bit worse.
Re: Nintendo Switch Lite Officially Revealed, Launches This September
I'm done with Nintendo. This is a shameful product that breaks any game that uses Joy-Con gestures just to save a measly inch of space so you can put it in a jacket pocket or something. I thought it was a stupid product when I heard about it because I knew they couldn't save much room, but they made the bad sacrifices to save the small amount of space. They could have released the Switch without a dock here in the US like in Japan, but nope, they had to give us this gimped POS. This never would have happened under Nintendo's previous management, I guess this is what happens when you put the replace the President of a company with the CFO.
Re: Microsoft Execs Thought They Owned Donkey Kong After Acquiring Rare
To be fair, this isn't that crazy an assumption to make if the person hasn't played any pre-DKC Donkey Kong games. All of the Donkey Kong games between DKC and DK64 had Rare's name on them, so it's an easy mistake to make. I was actually unsure whether Nintendo would keep the rights to the DK stuff Rare made, or whether they'd only keep the original Donkey Kong and DK Jr. designs.
Re: Nintendo Switch Becomes The Fastest-Selling Console Of This Generation In The US
@KingdomHeartsFan I think you're overreacting a little? Can someone not say they think a company is focused on specs to the point of ignoring creativity and fun without it being considered "attacking" them? I don't see how expressing a personal opinion is trashing or attacking anyone. Maybe it's constructive criticism and he thinks things like Kinect and PlayStation Move should have been explored further rather than being scrapped.
It seems to me that all he said was that the PS4 and Xbox One focused more on improved specs while Nintendo focused more on creativity and innovative use of older technology. I don't see how that's an insult to Sony or Microsoft to say that the market was ready for something different after several years of emphasis on two very similar consoles.
Especially when the argument could be made that people were burned out on innovative concepts like the Wii and Kinect after the 7th gen ended and were more in the mood for a traditional console. These things go in cycles.
He didn't just outright say "Microsoft sucks," or "Sony sucks," or talk about the consoles being bad, he just said that he personally thought they weren't a lot of fun, and if you enjoy novelty or a significant change in control scheme each generation, then that's a fair position to take.
As good as the PS4 and Xbox One are in terms of library and technology, they're evolutionary rather than revolutionary... the controller in your hand is mostly a refinement of what came before, and some people might find that boring if they've been playing the same old games using that type of controller since the 6th generation.
I personally enjoy both the Switch and the PS4, but for different kinds of games.
Re: Nintendo Switch Becomes The Fastest-Selling Console Of This Generation In The US
@dazzlerJJD In my opinion, Nintendo has not really been a full participant in a generation since the Gamecube as the 6th generation console. Here's how I see their efforts:
NES: 3rd generation
SNES: 4th generation
N64: 5th generation
GCN: 6th generation
Up to this point, everything makes sense, right? But then... this happens. Keep this Gunpei Yokoi quote in mind, “The Nintendo way of adapting technology is not to look for the state of the art but to utilize mature technology that can be mass-produced cheaply.”
Wii: 6.5th generation (The Wii is a souped-up Gamecube with motion controls, not a serious evolution in terms of hardware. It is to the Gamecube what PS4 Pro/Xbox One X are to the PS4/Xbox One)
Wii U: 7.5th generation (The Wii U is similar to the Xbox 360 and PS3, but has more RAM and emphasizes graphics over raw CPU power to a crippling degree so it can power two screens)
Switch: 8th generation (Sony and Microsoft released 8.5th generation consoles that are backwards compatible, and Nintendo is taking advantage of the work done on the scaled-back modes available for the original Xbox One to encourage third-party games games to scale back just a bit more and release on Switch for the portability)
So basically, Microsoft and Sony finally did this generation what Nintendo has arguably been doing since the Wii, and the new console by Nintendo is like an entry-level 8th gen console relying on mobility as a selling point.