RPGs have been around for nearly as long as the modern gaming industry has, and though genre standards are constantly being raised through the generations, there tends to be a homogenous sameness that many RPGs inevitably fall victim into. Octopath Traveler, for example, is a fantastic game, but it’s about as firmly traditional as a modern RPG can possibly be, trading innovation for well-understood genre tropes. On the other end of the spectrum is Undertale, an equally excellent and delightfully surprising role-player that hooks you with its weirdness and how it constantly changes up the status quo.
Undertale is a wonderful experience, not in how well it executes RPG tropes, but in how it often subverts them in fascinating ways. While a typical game of this type sees you acquiring a party of diverse characters, Undertale has you control a sole protagonist for the whole length of the game. Underlying systems in RPGs are usually on the complex side, requiring a certain amount of equipment, stats and many other factors to get the best results out of a team, while Undertale just has HP, Attack and Defense stats with next to no equipment. This act of going against the grain extends to the writing and the story as well; just when you expect a serious boss fight to happen, Undertale throws something silly at you. Similarly, disturbingly dark events can happen moments after a string of gags. Undertale is a game of surprise, of never knowing quite what’s going to happen next, and it’s that sense of freshness that makes this relatively short adventure such a memorable experience.
The story takes place in a world years after a war broke out between humans and monsters, with the monsters ultimately losing and being forced to move underground. You play as a kid who accidentally falls into an entrance to the monster world, kicking off a meandering adventure that sees you trying to find your way back out, making many weird friends and enemies along the way. Though the overarching plot of Undertale is nothing particularly special, its true strength comes out in the dialogue, which boasts great comedic timing and surprising depth. One memorable moment came when we read a sign along the path that read, 'Warning: Dog Marriage'. Upon closing the dialogue box and taking a few steps, we realized what it said and went back to read it again, and the sign now read, 'Yes, you read that correctly.'
Undertale conditions you to expect general nonsense and silliness like that as you work through the adventure, but it also delights in occasionally turning the tone quite dark. For example, during a certain boss fight, we fully emptied our enemy’s health bar, only for her to think of the friends and family depending on her, which gave her just enough health back to keep fighting. Each time we hit her after that, her attacks grew weaker and more pathetic, before we finally broke her and she melted before our eyes. Moments like that - or how getting enough experience from enemies results in your “LOVE” going up - act as wonderful moments of emotional whiplash, while also reminding you that there’s simply no telling what could happen next.
At first, gameplay follows relatively tried and true RPG conventions whereby your character travels a vast overworld and occasionally gets jumped on via random encounters, but the fascinating hook comes in the battle system. Every battle in the game, even against the bosses, can be cleared by showing the enemy mercy instead of killing them. Perhaps you need to pet an enemy dog warrior enough to gain its trust, or you need to flirt with the Tsunderplane to get it to like you; while showing mercy means you don’t get any experience, it also affects the narrative in interesting ways. There are three main ways you can play Undertale: doing a pacifist run with no kills, a neutral run with some kills, or a genocide run where you kill everything, and seeing all the content the game has to offer requires multiple playthroughs.
If you do decide to go the route of violence, combat is handled in a unique and engaging way. Attacking requires you to stop a moving line at the right place on a grid with a quick button press, but things change up when the enemy responds with their own strike. You’re suddenly given control of a red heart in a small box, and a brief bullet hell-like snippet of gameplay unfolds where you must dodge whatever else is in the box. Perhaps you have to weave between dozens of spiders, or dodge jumping dogs; much like the rest of the game, this portion of gameplay loves to keep you guessing. Sometimes your heart is restricted to jumping between three fixed lines, or a gravity effect is triggered and you have to jump over obstacles instead. It’s this constant dynamic gameplay of generally knowing what to expect - but never exactly how it will take shape - that makes combat so interesting and makes Undertale that much more memorable.
For all its excellence in other areas, one notable way in which Undertale stumbles is in its graphical presentation, which is rather basic and uninspired. Although there’s a colourful cast of characters from a writing perspective, sprite-work and level design are quite weak. There were a few too many sequences where we found ourselves walking down long, bland hallways that lacked visual flair and blended together. Undertale excels in its creativity in most other ways, but falls short in how it communicates visually.
On the other hand, the game features an excellent soundtrack, following a seemingly random assortment of tracks from a broad selection of genres. Although much of the music here is chiptune-inspired, there’s plenty of variety to be found, especially for the unique boss and character themes that pop up every now and then. We appreciated how fitting the music is for the occasionally chaotic pace of the narrative and gameplay, and it’s rather surprising how emotional and atmospheric some of the slower tracks can be.
Another key thing that bears mentioning - and something which may or may not come as a negative, depending on your personal preference - is the short runtime. A standard run, taking the time to talk to NPCs and engage with the environment, will take roughly ten hours; if you just blaze through, it’ll only take about five hours. While it may be that certain elements and plot points change depending on key decisions you make, encouraging replayability, players that don’t feel compelled to run through Undertale multiple times may be disappointed at how soon it’s over. While it would’ve been nice if there was more to this experience, it’s the kind of game that feels like it would overstay its welcome if the length was dozens of hours long; Undertale is certainly worth your time, but just be prepared for it to be over way earlier than your typical RPG.
Undertale is a brilliant and smartly designed game that understands well what makes a good RPG work; so much so that it can upend expectations and deliver something that’s almost a satire of the genre. It’s been a long time since we’ve played a game that manages to surprise so often and in so many unique ways, and even if it doesn’t look like much, Undertale has way more going for it under the surface. Excellently written characters, a genre-bending battle system and a solid soundtrack make this one an easy recommendation, especially to RPG lovers. Do yourself a favour and give this one a download.
Come on... 4 more days.
Are the battles touch enabled? Like dragging the heart around? Or is it all analog or dpad controlled? Touch controls would help immensely with the Sans fight but I can see why Toby would exclude it.
I'd probably play it if not for the bullet-hell battle system. Even still there is very little I like about the game. The music is pretty good.
I played through this one on steam after recommendations from multiple friends but nothing in it seemed to click for me. That didn't stop me from preordering the physical switch version because I have a problem.
This game is perfectly fine, as long as it doesn't spawn a second wave of fans shoehorning it in every internet topic ever.
I dunno. This IS a fun and unique game people should play, but people seem to glorify for every aspect, even the weaker parts. The best parts are the story and character writing, plus the soundtrack that compliments the story. Everything else is meh, like the repetitive enemy encounters that lose their appeal after their first encounter.
Unrelated. The new way nintendolife does titles for reviews is so confusing for me, everytime I think it’s a soapbox and than it turns out to be a review.
@darkswabber Did you intend for the first word of that comment to be an anagram of Undertale?
@Dogorilla no XD, kinda makes it related now.
Great to see this on Switch, but two playthroughs (neither are Genocide) of the PC version are good enough for me.
@ReaderRagfish Agreed. I vastly enjoyed Undertale as an adventure game, but I expected better as an RPG.
Any and all interest I might have had in the game evaporated because of the hyper aggressive portion of it's fanbase that popped up everywhere this game was discussed when it originally released to tell people they were playing it wrong.
@TossedLlama some Zelda's are RPGs, some arent.
Can't wait for this, when it came out years back on PC I didn't like playing it on pc and the game felt like a handheld typa game so I waited to see if Nintendo would pick it up, and here we are! Tuesday cannot come sooner! Almost done with spooderman so undertale will have my full attention
"relatively short adventure"
"will take roughly ten hours"
What? Ten hours isn't short.
With Undertale on the Switch, this is now a possibility...
Sans assist trophy
I know this game is supposed to be awesome and I feel kinda of bad for wishing for a remake with proper decent sprites -_-
mother 3 is better imo
For someone that disliked this game with a passion(thanks to its cancerous fanbase), I gave it a shot a few years back and will safely say that I loved it. The music is great, the sprites have their nice charm. Honestly this is one of the comfiest games I've played in a while and I'm glad to see it appear on the Switch.
It's got its flaws--the fanbase is one of "those" fanbases and it wouldn't even exist if not for MOTHER/EarthBound--but on balance I respect its tenacity in challenging story and gameplay conventions. When it works it's something pretty special.
Also; EASILY one of the best soundtracks of the decade... I'd say it'd stand out hugely even in a decade not largely composed of developers watering down their IPs for a quick buck.
I've been wanting to try this for a while, but I've held out for it to be on Switch, so I pre loaded it already. I'll be interested to see if it lives up to expectations, though I'm still busy with Hyper Light Drifter (800 dash challenge is killing me...I've only been able to get mid 300s so far), and I still have yet to finish Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight is proving to be a bit too long for my tastes. I prefer games like it more when they're about 10 - 15 for full completion, but having more content is certainly preferable for a lot of people.
RPG-lite it may be...who cares? What it undoubtedly is however cannot be disputed. An essential title and one of the all time Indie greats.
I remember this game caused an influx of people googling the term, "pacifist," 'cause people didn't know what it meant.
That's somewhere between "sad," and "beautiful," for the fact that everything can teach us something.
I'd like to check it out, but I just was so not fond of the style of game it is. I didn't like Earthbound at all.
I've never played Undertale and I've deliberately been holding off until it came to Switch as I do 90% of my gaming on my commute to/from work.
Needless to say I've really been looking forward to this release!
Tried it on Steam, the game is overhyped in my opinion, didn't end up finishing it. There certainly did seem to be some good lore/story to it, and the idea in combat is certainly unique and there's a fair amount of unique elements to dodging, but I felt the dodging was more prevalent when actually pursuing that alternate combat and seemed to get tedious over time
Cool that it's now portable for those who enjoy the game though. Switch working it's magic
@Giygas_95 I played Hollow Knight for the first time on Switch, and while it's a fun game, I agree it started to "wear thin" and start to feel like it was getting a bit too long.
I do tend to prefer quality over quantity, and while the game was still good in the end, I felt like the story/lore was not presented strongly enough. When I did get to the end, it felt kind of unsatisfying cause I didn't understand anything that happened (I later read up on it). I think per game design, it does help if games 'complete' or officially end at a sooner time, and then the other stuff can always be extra/ endgame content for those who want it. Otherwise, many feel compelled to 'at least reach the end', where if they burn out before then then it reduces some enjoyment (or some will just never reach said ending)
There is a part in thie end game that cannot quite be recreated on console, for some technical reasons and platform guidelines... I’m super curious to know how they ported it.
What happened to the retail release? Don't need it to be the collector's edition. Just the cart in a case. No news yet?
"It's not an RPG."
Get over yourselves - it's as much of an RPG as the active Mario RPG's.
@darkswabber oh, that anagram was Unintentional?
I've watched my son play through this game countless times on Steam. It's not something I'd buy for myself at this point, but I saw some moments where it genuinely tugs at the heartstrings. The game has some pretty good writing, and the very last boss is ridiculous.
But yeah, the graphics are enough to turn me off. I like retro, but not that retro.
Love this game but just...I will never stream it again. shudders
VAGUELY WORDED SPOILERS BELOW
On ps4 they just had the game do a reset with some glitchy effects. It doesn't close the game entirely. But entering a certain name at the start still crashes the game like on PC, oddly enough.
Frankly that's a ridiculous reason. So what, you're telling me you're a fan of Nintendo games because Nintendo fans are always 100% nice and civil? If a couple vocal jerks started attacking others for playing your favorite game "wrong", would you stop liking that game?
I nominate this for worst review title in nintendolife history
I think I’m gonna buy this game
So this is the legendary Undertale. Let's just say, two of the oddball-ist RPGs I've played that bent the genre had to be Earthbound and Contact, so I'm no stranger to RPG genre-benders. It sounds like Undertale has all the self-aware jokes and off the wall nonsense that I would enjoy. I was a bit put off by the crudeness of the graphics, but it's deliberate, I suppose. And that trailer... wow. That's an insta-win for my silly humor loving self. So this will be backlogged for sure awaiting a sale.
It's quite a charming little story with good writing and music, but I'm still a bit confused how it gained the ridiculous amount of popularity that it did.
@DeltaPeng The type of game that Hollow Knight is is the only type of game I go out of my way to 100%, and 100% completion in that game takes quite a while. I really like, say, the Metroid games where I can 100% them in a couple of hours or maybe, in the case of the Primes, 10 or so hours. Hollow Knight already has me over 50, and I still haven't done the Godmaster DLC. Some of the optional bosses seriously tick me off too.
@MisterKorman We have known about the collector's for months, still without Western confirmation, but I hate when they release digital version knowing that a retail one is on the way. Why not releasing both at the same time? I mean it's a port, not a new game...
In my experience, the best way to play this game is to find a 10-year-old who has played through the game multiple times and gotten all the endings to act as your strategy guide to tell you where to go next so you still get to see everything but don't waste time wandering around or grinding (until you get find the Tem Shop anyway). Regardless of how you feel about its fans, it's certainly an essential game on its own merits.
I may give this a try if I get bored enough. Undertale's fandom ironically keeps a lot of people away.
A fantastic game. Already got on PC but highly recommended for all Switch owners.
@BLD No, but Nintendo fans don’t usually exhibit Gamergate style vitriol at any that criticizes the product, and hype the game into something it is not. The fact that the rest of the fan community did not speak up and pull them back in line leads me to not want to associate, even if I miss out on a good game (from what I’ve seen it isn’t great).
It is the same way I feel about Gone Home and a few other indies that everyone overhypes and gets hyper defensive about when there is criticism.
"every fan of the Genre (RPG) should play"
I think most fans of the genre are playing something else right now 🤔
Not really the month to try and hype Undertale as a must play RPG (regardless of "Spectrum")... just saying.
Wish there were a demo of some sorts.
Playing Undertale on the Switch...
fills you with Determination!
This is going to get meta, but what annoys me is not the game itself, nor the supposedly terrible fandom, nor supposed people who complain about the fandom either. What bothers me is that every internet section about Undertale has to have the preface of "the game is good, just not the fandom". Conversations about Undertale can never be about just the game anymore, and that makes me sad.
I absolutely hate the new title system for reviews.
This is on my "I'm interested in it but have never picked it up" list. It seems highly praised, I've just never gotten around to grabbing it on the PC. Maybe since it's now making it to other platforms, this will be a bit easier....
I'm not really up to speed on all the complaints about the fandom, but I'm not sure I want to know either.
I picked this up on Steam through a Humble Bundle pack a while back. I must say I was very excited to get my hands on it. The experience, however, was boring and tedious. I've tried it both ways, and neither was very interesting. Some of the dialogue was cute, but the game just wasn't that good.
@AlexSora89 your post fills me with determination.
I will wait for a sale. I think it was on sale for Vita a while back. I had my I on it but TORNA is so on right now.
Ahhh yes... Undertale. The game with such a toxic fanbase that it precedes the actual game itself. This game (along with Hollow Knight) has one of those aggressive fanbases that force the game down your throat to the point that you wouldn't play it if your life depended on it. It's different from the aggressive side of the Hollow Knight fanbase in the sense that fans of Undertale simply won't shut up about the game and will flat out flame you if you have any constructive criticism of it. The Hollow Knight fanbase however likes to try and "dethrone" some of the more popular and well known games in the genre by shouting how much better it is than _ game. I've played Hollow Knight, but I pretty much refuse to play this one. Not being a huge fan of Earthbound doesn't help either, of course.
That said, the people I know who have played it had nothing but positive things to say, so it definitely seems to be a good game. I do take some issue with the title of the review though. As others above have commented, it's a bit late to try and use this level of hype for Undertale. By now, most of us have either played it, decided we don't want it, or already know they want it.
Does this mean Undyne will be a playable character in Smash =D?
@AlternateButtons In practice, the RPG mechanics are extremely limited, and there is little depth to combat. Money and EXP are pretty much worthless too. It is an RPG by checking pretty much every box off the list, but also an extremely shallow one that's only held up by the story, characters, and writing, which are all pretty good but once you beat the game there is very little reason to go back to it as a game in of itself because no matter if you go Pacifist or Genocide, it's all boring gameplay. Genocide bosses are the only time when the combat gets fun if you ask me, but there's only two of them.
I never saw the appeal, but why is it so bloody late?
@MisterKorman For one, a person's review of a game (good or bad) is useful information, particularly for developers. The developer of the game itself and of similar types games can use feedback to know how to adjust their future games.
If only the favorable reviews appeared, it's useful info for future consumers to help ensure they end up with a product they like, and plus then if the game had weaknesses or areas that could be refined, the developer may not know about it (aka for a sequel) unless someone said something. So, feedback in general is useful.
ideally it will be explained with reasons so the developer has detailed information to work with.
Sure, a negative review may not be liked by fans, but really, no game is perfect and everything could be improved, but by pondering and voicing opinions we have a greater likelihood of the games being improved and refined the way the fans/consumers like.
I own it on PC but haven't finished it. I found the style/characters/humor EXTREMELY charming and yes the music is also great, but I dislike the bullet hell combat. It's not my kind of gameplay. And I second one of the commenter above me about the repetitive random combat encounters. I know that's part and parcel of the type of RPG this game is inspired by but it doesn't make it less tedious.
I do feel like I'd be more likely to enjoy playing it/finish it on Switch compared to PC, but idk if I care enough to purchase it a second time.
@mikegamer The engine didn't support Switch until recently. It's also why Hyper Light Drifter was "late".
@ReaderRagfish A lot of people misuse the term RPG thinking levelling up, crafting etc makes a game an RPG. And call games like Dark Souls RPGs. This game is definitely an RPG.
RPG = Role Playing Game
So if you play a role in the game then it's a RPG, which means every game is a RPG.
I loved this game on PC/Steam. I'm not planning to double-dip and grab it on Switch, but it was a very fun game.
It probably got a bit overhyped (it became one of those games that every YouTuber seemed to play) and the fanbase had a very vocal minority that became way overzealous, but none of that takes away from the game itself. If you aren't a fan of bullet hells or corny jokes, it's skippable, but I'd recommend it to most everyone else.
If you can't wait, Steam has it on sale for 4.99. This is for Mac and PC versions.
@roboshort Huh? I'd argue that levelling up is an intrinsic element of RPGs. Crafting isn't, per se. But add levelling up, and you've added an RPG element to your game. Hence Dark Souls is an ARPG, with character development is tied to experience (Souls) gained in combat. In what way is it not?
It's pretty much a massively overrated game. That doesn't make it bad but I got so sick of hearing about how great it was then when I played it it had a negative effect on me.
Maybe I should pick this up again. Certain fights get really really tricky when using the keyboard, and I'd like to be able to show it to some people a little more easily. Glad it eventually came to a Nintendo system!
If RPG is short for RolePlaying Game, then it's very much an RPG.
And if you read the review after reading the headline, it does contain quite a lot of elaboration on that opening statement.
As someone who rarely gets into contact with the fan communities of individual games, and almost never does so unwittingly, I'm a little curious as to how someone ends up getting such an overdose.
Has the been a high concentration of Undertale fans on other sites you visit?
@Pod I work in information technology and a lot of the people I work with are gamers so I often hear about things like this long before I actually check them out. I remember when Pokémon GO came out it was pretty much the same.
And Monster Hunter World.
Can't say I didn't have my interest in ever watching Game of Thrones tarnished from everyone around me talking about it as well.
@Pod oh I did a bit especially as it went on. It's not really just talking about it. A lot of the people I have worked with could be a bit, let's say fanatical. Once you hear how genius something is so many times it's hard to face it with the same excitement I would have before.
That and some of Undertale, and for that matter, Game of Thrones fans can be very militant and when you don't like the dame characters or whatever they act as though you're stupid.
It's not the game's fault though.
Aye, I've just also had a bit of overdose on fantasy stuff trying to be edgy and adult, so I'll give Game of Thrones a run once it's out of my system some years from now.
Undertale really is a tough one if people talk to much. I think Yatzee did it right with saying "I'm not going to talk about it, the less you know the better, just know that it's good". When people know about the different runs before playing, they try going for pacifist first, which will be [A] Very difficult, and [B] Won't trigger your curiosity for the underlying structure at all.
And if people are in some Sans cult, then it's really not helping the outsider to experience it on their own.
Not every gamer in the world has the same tastes or is playing the same games.
Doesn't matter what month it is. Different people have different tastes and own different systems and have different wants and needs- it's always a good time to say a good game is a good game.
People can then make their own choices as to when they want to play or if they want to play it. I'm busy playing Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate. It's a bad month for any other game because I promise you it's all going to get ignored in favor of Monster Hunter.
Doesn't mean other games shouldn't release, and it doesn't mean reviews shouldn't say those games are good if they are. I'll get around to them when I've got time. If they think it's a must play a game, then they should say they think it's a must play game.
@ReaderRagfish "Isn't this game barely even an RPG?"
Meaningful choices and consequences? On the contrary, it sounds like the quintessential RPG.
@Nincompoop "RPG = Role Playing Game
"So if you play a role in the game then it's a RPG, which means every game is a RPG."
Not so much. I think Warren Spector came up with the perfect definition: A role playing game is any game where player choice changes the outcome of the story, or at least the way the story is told.
@JaxonH Why I said "Most" and not "all".
Actually, MHGU not only fell 30 spots and out of the UK chart in a week. But Game biz is reporting it fell out of the top 50 in EMEAA. (Landing at 82)
So that is another game trying to be hyped, but "most" people do not care about either. My comment has nothing to do with individual taste. But the craziness of labeling games with limited appeal as "must play". Especially when actual big games are out.
I'll be watching the Singapore GP tomorrow. But anyone labels it a "must watch sporting event" on the same day as "NFL Game Day" here in the US - And I'll call them crazy.
I don't care what it fell.
I don't validate what I like based on sales numbers. And most games fall after they release anyways, except year round Evergreen blockbusters. And considering it was in the top 100 of Amazon for months and months and months before release, it's kind of irrelevant that it fell after release because obviously it's going to fall after release. ESPECIALLY in the U.K. Which is like the worst Nintendo market in the entire planet, and one of the tiniest countries on the planet as well.
There's a lot of games that are must-plays, and I would say most of them are not games that sell 10 million copies. Doesn't mean it's not a must play game. NO GAME is a must play for every single person on the planet, and that's true regardless of whether it sells half a million copies or 50 million copies.
If the argument is, you can't say a game is must play because not everyone is going to like it, then you can never say a game is a must-play, ever, under any circumstance, because absolutely no game in existence is going to be a game that everyone likes or feels they have to play.
Undertale is a must play. "For people who are into that kind of game" is implied. And that's true for any game in existence that someone says is a must play.
@JaxonH Again not about what "you" care. You obviously like it - but that just puts "you" in to a fringe minority. And EMEAA is not the UK, it is basically half the world. And no, It literally is pointed out as the biggest drop in the article. Other games that were on top 10 (so got more pre-orders anyway) didn't crash to #83. So that is all taken into account. People decided to buy something else.
No, that term is not used because a handful of people care about something. If that is the case There would be no point in using the term at all.
No, what was "implied" was to "RPG lovers"... and a 3 year old Undertale rehash as a "must play" to that group right now is laughable. You think RPG fans are rushing to dust off their VITA because they reminded Undertale exists 😂
What I'm saying is, that doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter how much a game sold and it doesn't matter how many people will buy it.
Sales only indicate how many people were willing to take a chance on a game they thought they'd like, and says absolutely nothing about how many people would actually like it if they played it.
Sales is the absolute worst argument to make on whether a game is a must play. Especially since different genres sell different amounts. So saying people who like this niche genre shouldn't play this game, simply because a game in a more popular genre that sells more copies is out, it's absolutely ludicrous. It doesn't even matter if a more popular game in the same genre is out. Either it's good enough that it shouldn't be missed, or it's not. This game, in the authors opinion, is good enough that it should not be missed, hence it's a "must play game". Case closed.
I don't care if only 5 people in the entire world bought a game. Whether it is a must play is completely separate from how many people bought it. Either the game is good enough to where any person who likes those type of games should play it (now or later) or it's not.
You can't just say "well it's not a must play because there's this other game out right now". No. No no no. It's a must play regardless of any other game out right now. That means at some point you should play it. He didn't say drop what you're doing right this very second and play this game right now. He said it's a must play. And it is. That means if you like these types of games you need to play this game, whether it be now or five years from now, but you need to play it.
One of the biggest problems in gaming is people thinking that sales justifies quality, or graphics justify quality, or that popularity justifies quality. They do not. Popularity and sales only indicate how well their marketing teams performed, and how well modern graphics can get the masses to purchase a video game that's been thrown in their face on every advertisement, and how popular that particular genre is. You can't tell RPG fans not to play the best game of that respective genre just because an FPS shooter released that 20 million people are buying. If an RPG fan is looking for a great RPG game, and this game is good enough that the author feels it should not be missed, then it gets labeled a must play game.
This is a must play game, and that truth is going to stand for all of time. You can't just negate that truth because you think some other game is out right now that you like. This review will be read by people for years to come, and you want to throw that out simply because some other game is out there you'll be playing for two weeks? No.
This is a must play game and that will not change. No external factor influences or affects that simple truth. Whether you drop everything you're doing right now to play it is a personal choice. If you're playing another game that you think is more worth your time, then do that. No commandment was given to drop everything you're doing and play this right now. That is an individual choice that each and every gamer will have to make for themselves with every single game they consider playing. And there is no right or wrong answer.
@JaxonH Then you replying to a comment that does not exist. Because I said "most" (so how many people "pick it" does matter) and I said "Not really the month" (so time of launch does matter)
Sales matter here when they can plaster it sold "4X more" or Makes it to the top of the charts. People don't go into some existential discussion on marketing in modern society. Only time it is an issue - is when it is not convenient.
I guarantee you that when Smash becomes the "must play" fighting game in December. Anyone comes here advocating the merits of some $11 (3 year old) Indie fighting game on the VITA... they will get laughed off the comments section.
No they won't.
If the game is good enough that it shouldn't be missed, then it's good enough that it shouldn't be missed. I don't care if Smash is out or not. If it's good enough that it shouldn't be missed and Smash is out, then people will make a mental note that that is a must play game, and whenever they have time they need to go play it.
But for the record, you're making a comparison about a game on Vita which is a system nobody really cares about or wants to play video games on, versus a game on Switch that everybody loves and everybody wants to play games on. It's like saying DB Fighter Z is a must play game when Smash is out. Who are you to declare that Smash is a better game for every person on the planet? And even if it is a better game, that doesn't change the fact DB Fighter Z is a must play fighter. It might not sell as much as Smash, but that doesn't change the fact it's a must play game. Doesn't mean people have to drop Smash right here right now and start playing that game instead. But it does mean the game is a must play and you should definitely check it out whenever you have time. Why is this so hard to understand.
We're talking about being a must play game a.k.a. whether the game is good enough that it's definitely worth your time. Has absolutely nothing to do with what else is out.
This or Dragon Quest XI...
Hmmm.. tough decesion!
"...and whenever they have time they need to go play it"
So at that moment in time it is not a must play game... Because there is something better. If you only have $X dollars to spend, people go and get the "must buy" and leave the rest for another day. Undertale is the one you skip (just like the random fighting game on VITA)
Again, what I said.
@H_Hunter big price difference & much different time investments, so shouldn't be too hard to decide if you have a budget or know how much you want to get out of a game in your current circumstance.
@JaxonH and in those cases it usually works out better for me, since i can wait for a good sale on it.
Edit: didn't read all the prior posts before this comment so i wasn't commenting in the proper context. I would delete the post, but rather just add this for clarification. I'm not taking sides in y'all's discussion because i haven't read all of each of your posts before this point, FWIW.
They didn't say anything about that moment of time. They said it's a must play, they did not say it's a must play right now this very second at the expense of every other video game out.
You're just making things up.
But even if they did, it would be a completely subjective statement. There are people out there who think this is the greatest video game in the world they've ever played. Are you going to tell those people they are wrong, but your opinion is right?
This game is NOT more important to me than Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate. It's not more important to me than Final Fantasy XV Pocket Edition. It's not more important than Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Torna. It's not even more important to me than Bastion. All of which are my top priority right now more than any other video game out. Yet you don't see me arguing about this being a must play game. Nobody told me I have to stop playing Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy and and Xenoblade and Bastion to make time for this game RIGHT NOW. They simply told me that this is a game I need to play. When I play it is completely up to me. But even if I were playing a game on another console, I could still play this right now since other consoles don't exactly come with me when I leave the house.
@JaxonH You replied to my comment. And that is what my comment was about. I literally have the word "month" in my comment.
I never gave an opinion on is it worth saving for a rainy day... or if 3 people in Oklahoma buy this game over every RPG ever made.
Again, why I said "most" and "this month".... Nothing implies I am telling "everyone" what to think up to the end of videogame time
Even this month. It could be a must play for people this month. Might not be for you or me but maybe it is for others. What if people don't own another console. What if they're not interested in the other games out on Switch. What if they do own another console and they're not interested in the other games on that. What if they actually are playing another game on another console, but they choose to play this when they're not at home (since you can actually play more than one game at a time when you have a portable console). What if the game they're playing somewhere else, they already finished it...
There is no absolute here. All you can do is speak for yourself, and say that for you personally it is not a priority right now.
@JaxonH And that subsection of a subsection is not "most"
My comment has no need to be "absolute" just "factual"... and that can easily be determined once September data comes out. I never made an Absolute statement. Just a "prediction" of what "most" people would want in a set time.
September data? What does that have to do with anything? You're trying to rationalize which games are good based on how many copies they sell?
"September data" will only tell you which game sold most. Which is absolutely irrelevant to which games are worth playing.
Human Fall Flat is #1 in the eShop. Does that mean that game is more worth playing then everything else? Call of Duty sells more than just about any other game every year. That mean it's more worth playing then anything else?
Popularity has absolutely nothing to do with whether a game is worth playingor not, or how worth playing it is. Some of the best video games of all time have had poor sales and some of the worst and most mediocre video games sell incredibly well.
Please stop trying to justify which games are worth playing based on how well they sell.
@JaxonH My comment was not about what games are "worth playing". It was about the "must play game" for "MOST". The data does determine that
And how is what most people do even remotely relevant?
The actions of "most" are almost always contrary to the taste of the more refined gamer who does adequate research and is into the hobby more than just as a passing interest. The actions of "most" are often influenced by a number of outside factors that have absolutely nothing to do with quality, including marketing exposure. nostalgia, whatever game was lucky enough to be personally recommended to them by somebody they know, brand awareness, modern trends, genre popularity, graphical appeal, access due to which consoles they own, sale price, etc.
None of which speak to whether a game is actually a must play game. There are many must play games that get completely overlooked thanks to all those outside factors that affect purchasing decisions.
Which is why sales should never ever ever ever ever be brought up in a conversation about whether a game is worth playing. And it's why dismissing a game as being a must play based on an argument of what "most will do" is completely illogical.
I'm replying to your original post here.
I don't think Mr. Vogel is trying to "hype" Undertale. That every RPG fan ought to play it is his personal opinion, and as such not something that he demands or predicts will happen anytime soon, if ever.
@JaxonH And that again is not my comment you replied to. I indicated that Undertale was not that game. Not "why" it was not... Or even if it should or should not. You went off track ages ago.
Your comment took issue with them saying it was a must play game. When it clearly is according to practically every reviewer out there.
You simply backtracked on what you said. Why it bothered you so much in the first place to see this game get a great recommendation is beyond me. Like this "oh ya, oh ya, well this game is nothing thanks to the really great games I am playing that any self respecting gamer should actually be playing" attitude. Looking down on anyone who would actually play this instead of the divine, superior games you have chosen.
@JaxonH Now I really have no clue what you talking about. No need to "backtracked"... my 2 lines cant say all that one way or the other.
I recently downloaded a demo of Undertale VR. Wow it was awesome. All you could do was walk around. I sure would love to see that or see it released on 3ds in 3d. If a full version of VR on Android ever gets a release I'm all over that.
I would also like to play the original. It's to bad the 3ds probably won't see it.
Neat. Undertale was one of my favorite games of... when did it release, 2015? Geez, time does fly. It's funny and creepy in turns and plays with genre conventions in thought-provoking ways. Definitely a "top shelf" indie.
So in other words, it tries to fix what isn't broken and winds up a weaker example of the genre as a result. Just because something is surprising and innovative doesn't necessarily make it good.
For example, only having a single controllable protagonist in an RPG is not a good thing. While some RPG systems are too complex, it's just as bad when they're too shallow. Any author will tell you that bipolar plots as you described do not make for good storytelling. The unique battle system sounds more stupid and annoying than fun. I absolutely hate morality systems and games that force you to replay them just to repetitively and arbitrarily try and see the game's entire content, especially when it's used as a crutch to justify a short game length. As you said, the graphics are pretty lame.
I'll definitely pass on this one.
@Mountain_Man That's only for the games with lame morality systems. Most RPGs have a set story that will always play out the same way no matter what you do.
The core idea of an RPG is having the choice to develop and explore with your playable character(s) (e.g. your "role(s)") in many different possible ways as you desire as the means of completing the story. A leveling system isn't necessary for an RPG, but it's definitely a major RPG element.
However, if the game always has the same mostly set pattern as to how your character develops or travels over the course of the game (or those options are rather limited in number like the classic Mega Man games), then it's not an RPG or merely a different genre with some light RPG elements.
@BulbasaurusRex "That's only for the games with lame morality systems."
Nope. I'm talking classics like Fallout, Planescape Torment, and Dragon Age: Origins (I might even include Chrono Trigger), none of which have a "lame morality system" and all of which offer a meaningfully different narrative experience depending on what choices the player makes.
And while many RPGs do have some sort of leveling system, that's not what makes them role playing games. It's mostly just a convention for reflecting player progress and giving them goals to pursue, but you could, in fact, make an RPG with no leveling system at all. Don't confuse combat rules with role playing.
@Mountain_Man That means Life is Strange, Detroit and Until Dawn are RPG games?
@Mountain_Man Whatever they use, the fact remains that most RPGs have set stories in place with just a single ending aside from a "game over."
I already agreed with you about leveling systems. They're not necessary for an RPG, but they are a big indicator, since they're one of the most common methods used to denote player development. Likewise, if a leveling system is basically the only thing a game uses to develop the characters by player choice (like "Zelda II," which like most Zelda games still requires you to obtain your important equipment in a set order), then it's probably not an RPG. ("Breath of the Wild" could probably be considered an RPG, though, a rare Japanese-developed Western-RPG.)
@Nincompoop "That means Life is Strange, Detroit and Until Dawn are RPG games?"
I don't know. I've never played them. If they allow you to meaningfully shape the narrative through player choice then you could probably make that argument.
@BulbasaurusRex "Whatever they use, the fact remains that most RPGs have set stories in place with just a single ending..."
Then it's debatable whether they really qualify as RPGs. If the player is able to choose his own narrative path to that ending that is meaningfully different from another player who made different choices then you have a stronger case.
@Zoda_Fett yeah? Which ones are and aren't?! Aside from Zelda II they all follow the exact same format until BotW - that is item collection to progress instead of levelling up which, not to open a can of worms, is what people usually define an RPG by.
I really dislike the term "must play" for the exact reason as the argument above demonstrates. Nothing is a must play, especially if the individual decides for themselves that isn't. Nothing a reviewer says will change that. Super Metroid and Mario 3 are some of my favorite games of all time but I don't label them as "must play" games because it comes off as shoving them down others throats, which is specifically why people don't like the fanbase for Undertale to begin with. Undertale fans consider it a "must play" and those of us who didn't buy into the hype and don't care about this game have to listen to their crap. "Must play" is just so arrogant sounding when it comes down to it.
I personally prefer the term "worth playing" as it sounds more modest. As if you're saying the game is good enough to be played by most people. "Must play" makes it sound like it's being pushed on you, like you HAVE to play it. It's that kind of crap that got the Undertale fanbase such a bad name to begin with. I might take issue with someone telling me Undertale is a "must play" RPG, but I wouldn't take as much issue with someone telling me it's "worth playing".
Just my two cents anyway.
I’ve never understood people not enjoying something they otherwise would because of how other people act.If I let other people dictate what I can enjoy I wouldn’t be able to enjoy anything because there’s a metric ton of idiots out there.I look forward to giving this game a shot.
"Undertale is certainly worth your time, but just be prepared for it to be over way earlier than your typical RPG"
10 hours if you take your time isn't that short for a download (ok, maybe it is for a rpg), seeing as many downloads are shorter. I'll buy this someday, when its cheaper.
If it's that short I may stop worrying about when the hell are they releasing the physical version and start waiting for a digital price drop in order to buy it on South Africa or Mexico even cheaper.
@Zoda_Fett Zelda games are not RPGs. There are
1. No levels.
2. Not a lot of character building.
3. No HP / Health. (Except for hearts but those don't fit an RPG)
4. No MP (magic points)
5. No stats.
And I could go on and on.
Zelda is an Adventure game in it's purest, and does that perfectly.
If Nintendo would make an actual Zelda RPG everyone would completely hate that game.
@nagash you clearly dont understand the games point then, the sprites look fine dude
@sanderev A little late to the party, but I’d argue that Zelda II is RPG(ish).
@Sinton True, but it's the only one. It's also one of the most difficult Zelda games. And also it's still not a true RPG, it simply has RPG elements, making it an Adventure-RPG.
@sanderev Agree. One of the hardest games I’ve ever beaten.
This game is horribly overrated.
Just finished it and totally loved it. Went down the pacifist route, which was a worthwhile challenge
9/10 for me too
👎︎♋︎❒︎🙵 ♎︎♋︎❒︎🙵♏︎❒︎ ⍓︎♏︎⧫︎ ♎︎♋︎❒︎🙵♏︎❒︎
(Filler for it to work)
How does this have a higher rating than Among Us? I mean undertale is AWSOME! but still
This game is FANTASTIC!!!!!! I LOVE it so much!!!!!!! I recently finished my pacifist route and I enjoyed it! This game honestly deserves more attention. Sadly, I can't bond over this game. It's my favorite game EVER!!!!!!
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