Early Tech Analysis Investigates Paper Mario Thousand-Year Door Switch FPS & Resolution

I hope it's made 60 fps when the game releases and it's not just the trailer but that's more because I prefer games running the same as they did when they release. Though I also won't be getting it when it comes out since I still have my GameCube copy.

30fps is fine for a slower paced game like Paper Mario, but please make sure it doesn’t drop below the 30 🫣

I have never played a PM game so I guess this is my chance to start with the supposed “best in class”…?

Not a deal breaker but it is disappointing.

First, Metroid Prime Remastered with 600p in handheld mode, now Paper Mario: TTYD remaster/remake in 30FPS...
«As for other parts of the game, the resolution is reportedly 900p in docked mode, and it's estimated the handheld mode resolution could be about 720p.»
So... 600p in handheld mode again? Well, then, I pass, thanks.

Didn't even cross my mind. Some folk are bloody obsessed about this sort of thing lol.

Oof. Switch 2 can't come soon enough.

You'll have to buy a Switch 2 for that I bet.

As long a it's consistent at 30 then it's fine.

Was thinking it probably didn’t matter for a game like this, but it might mess with some precise button timings if they don’t fine tune it.

@GrailUK On one side, this a remaster of a 19 yr old GC game that ran 60 fps on the GC. So something like this should be easily achievable.

On the other side, 30 fps usually is the middle standard I'll take. I'm not THAT CRAZY with the obsession with 60 fps. But it does get kinda grating hearing folks wanting 4k 60fps or even 120fps.

And honestly, these folks don't understand from the casual gamer's point-of-view sometimes. Most, me included, are happy that this game IS GETTING RELEASED AT ALL.

Bottom line: I guess it goes both ways...or one. I don't know...whatever suits anyone fancy...I suppose.

I much rather have a smooth 30fps (which it looks like it's having) than a "60fps target" but going between 30-60fps.

Ooof...I know CERTAIN folks ain't gonna like it. Nowadays, even 60 fps aren't enough for us. Some want even 120fps. At the highest degree. Have we really become so spoiled by framerates so much that I even question it???

I dare not say...but will say it anyways. But whatever...

@Vyacheslav333 Well, you can always go with emulation on the Steamdeck or PC to get those results. The possibilities are...endless. Or infinite.

Doesn’t bother me

Reminds me of when Bowsers Inside Story on 3DS ran at 30fps while the original ran at 60fps. I never noticed while playing that game dispite having played both versions

I'm fine with this. I enjoyed every second of Tears of the Kingdom which ran at 30... I just don't care unless it actually affects gameplay.

You know what. If true, that'll only be a very slight disappointment to me. I'm just far too happy with this announcement to really care and I'll probably not really care much while playing this game.

@DanijoEX-the-Pierrot Oh, yeah, everyone has money to buy a gaming PC or Steam Deck or both...
(Joke)

I'll never at all understand why framerates are such a dealbreaker for people. Provided it's stable it's functional, especially for a turn-based RPG.

Well, at least I already have the GameCube version last month. 😅
The Switch version is for my Double Dip purchase.

@Vyacheslav333 I chuckled at that one. Lol

People are saying it’ll be fine for a game like this. It absolutely wont be as you move left/right on this game meaning you’ll be ghosting like crazy, it’ll be a blurry mess.
If you are going to play it and you don’t have a smooth brain, you better have some paracetamol at the ready.

I guess Nintendo had to do something to compete with Konami releasing an old PS 2 game running at half the original frame rate. Congrats Ninty!
I seriously hope they fix the frame rate before release, or quadruple it for a simultaneous Switch 2 release. 1000 Year Door at a higher frame rate would be pretty indeed!

But does the game still stutter in Flurry's bedroom? Lol

You should expect 60fps if the "near retro" original was. I can't say I am too bothered mind you.

@DanijoEX-the-Pierrot But you can't say just becuase it's 60 on one thing, it's 30 on another when they have obviously remade it so it's not even the same thing.

Here's a question. Would you rather have had a 60 fps port (assuming the Switch can emulate GN at that.) or a 30 fps remake?

Big whoop... as long as it plays fine, who cares? I own this game on GameCube but sadly it isn't really my cup of tea. I consider buying this remake just for the sake of sale number so Nintendo gets a hint of the fact that I want more GameCube remakes on Switch. Now where are Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD!?

As anyone knows fps is crucial in a turn-based rpg. Wth.

@mlt it is in a timing based game like this.

I don't see how they beat the Switch library. It's got everything.

Ridiculous, people trying to ruin and dump
on this already.

Its not the fact it's running at 30fps that's the problem, but the fact the 2004 version was 60fps. And people are willing to accept a game almost 20 years older is running worse... this is why developers are releasing unfinished games, they know people will just accept it.

@NinjaNicky It's not the same game though, it's a remake with upgraded graphical fidelity and resolution. Would you rather have a 480p version that ran at 60fps or a 1080p version at 30 fps?

Because you are forgetting that very small but crucial detail.

And like I already wrote, I much rather have a solid smooth 30 fps, than a jittery 60 fps.

Some of you say that they prefer solid 30 fps over unstable 60 fps. I prefer solid 60 fps, and I know it’s possible:
https://youtu.be/KMLAIGoCavw?si=W9BCHe4uc-LTT5aG

@Max_the_German 1080p60 is not possible on the Switch with this graphical fidelity and effects. Sure you could make the GameCube 480p smeary mess 60fps on the Switch, but I much rather have 1080p30 with better graphics.

And maybe the Switch 2 has BC and they'll make a 60fps patch for this...

If 30fps is what Origami King ran at, then I’m totally fine with it. Didn’t have any issue with that game.

@sanderev I‘m also fine with reduced resolutions, as many Switch titles have (Metroid Prime, Metroid Dread, Super Mario Odyssey 900p, Bayonetta series 720p). But I would also take 1080p60. You know Mario Kart 8 Deluxe or Super Smash Bros Ultimate?

Does it need it? Like at all?

Everything that is wrong with gaming right here, and some misinformation to boot!

I've talked about this before, but if you look at a game like God Of War or COD, 80-90% of your entire budget is going towards hitting your fidelity and frame rate targets. A great way to look at what that means for you, the gamer, is this.

COD, with a budget of $200 million, delivers the GAME PLAY experience of a $20 million game, while delivering $180 million worth of art. This is an awful trade off most of the time, and only something really worth it when cinematic gameplay and cutting edge performance is the key selling point.

Most games SHOULD NOT TARGET 60fps. Unless it's going to give you a huge gameplay boost, it's just a waste of time and money. That is even more true when you look at low resolution, low graphical feature games like what you get on switch, where most of the time 30 fps and motion blur is going to be literally indistinguishable from 60 fps. You simply are not drawing features that are complex enough to require frequent updates to look good.

We tend to be really dumb when we talk about games, never acknowledging that they are not made with limitless budgets. The money and time spent hitting a frame rate target means cut backs in other areas, and in a genre like this that's just never going to be a good deal for anyone.

It is also unbelievable misleading to suggest a game made for a system that out-put in S-Video and in interlaced format for most international releases had a "60 fps" target.

Say it with me ... FIELD RATE isn't FRAME RATE. They literally can't have a FPS target, it's video hardware dependent. Your software can't make the electorn gun go any faster ... nor could it make it go any slower.

Even worse if the idea that 30 fps might cause "latency" for button pushes. Literally the opposite of the truth. Frame generation is more stable at 30 fps, so the chance we get the information out of sync is lower at 30fps then it would be at 60fps. Lower frame rate also allows for more I/O calls, meaning the input will have more of an opportunity to be received within the appropriate frames. Put simply, a 2 frame window at 30fps and the 4 frame window at 60fps are the same, but there are 4 chances for something to go out of sync instead of 2. They target high frame rates in fighters because it makes it HARDER to hit inputs, not easier.

Meh, just glad 1KYD is getting remade.

How can they tell from a youtube video?
Sorry, but I'll wait until the game comes out, and to be honest if Origami King was only 30fps and this being 30 fps will be fine.
Also, to be honest maybe because of my old eyes, I can't see any difference between 60 and 30

oh no! Anyways.

@Bunkerneath

it's actually not that hard. From a tech standpoint, there are things like ambient occlusion, types of shadow mapping, and types of global illumination that are pretty obvious to the trained eye which the switch simple can not reasonably output at 720/60. So if you see a game is including them without DRS, it's likely not targeting 60fps.

Sure, it's a guess, and given the trailer we saw is likely generated on PC anyway, it could be evolving. But it's a good guess, and the community is generally correct.

Don’t care. TTYD is back and it looks beautiful!!

I do hope this means that the text will scroll fluently on the screen!

Still 6 more frames than what movies are shot in.

@Max_the_German Those games are relatively light on content, also those games really need 60fps to be playable. Which means other parts of graphical fidelity suffers. (Which it does in those games)

This is a slow moving turnbased rpg. It doesn't need 60FPS. Especially if it wouldn't be able to maintain a smooth 60fps. And NO in NO WAY the Switch would handle this game with this fidelity in smooth 1080p60. Maybe 720p60 with scaled down lighting. But it would look rather bland.

But if you want 480p60, then just get yourself a second hand GameCube and the game for it.

And if you really want 60fps, just buy a PS5 or XBOX Series X. And play recent games like Starfield which run at.. what is this? 4K30? Oh darn!

People here don't bother superguarding.

Not that I played it originally, but I didn't even have a 60hz tv back then anyway. Don't think I even got one till 2012. Wouldn't have noticed either way.

@sanderev but this day and age, it should be 1080p at 60fps. I know it's not the game, it's the console but it's still not great. The Switch came out in 2017, the technology it uses was 5 years old when the Switch was released. It was an old console before it came out.

This is a nothing issue. The game is a turn based RPG, you don’t need 60fps to enjoy those.

I'd prefer a port. Paper Mario 64 still looks fine to me on NSO.

Well this was a disappointing read, I get the sentiment that 60fps isn't necessary at all for a Turn Based RPG; and I would agree but this is only being thrown around for damage control.
You can go ahead and cherrypick other modern games that run at 30fps or other fallacies like saying "would you rather have x or y" implying we can't have both, but they don't hold any water.
Not to mention the switch still has it's fair share of 1st party games that run at 60fps and even 1080p like splatoon 2/3, mario kart, and ARMS and those games have much more going on than TTYD (I know some of these are dynamic resolutions but still).
I'm just going to ignore the pretend tech experts that try and defend this.

A modern console multiple times more powerful than the original hardware this game was on should be able to run to native framerate it was on in the very least, I don't feel like this is an outrageous expectation to have, especially when this seems to be a remaster, not a remake made from the ground up.
(If I'm wrong about this feel free to correct me)

But then again Nintendo fans will buy anything.

...and just like that, my GameCube copy retains its value. In all seriousness though, 900p/30fps docked does seem a bit off for a game like this.

Hype. I was going to buy a Gamecube to play this. I'll still buy the Gamecube for some other classics, like SAB2 and Rogue Squadron but I'll save myself for the Switch version.

The only thing that really bugs me about this announcement is that i thought the gamecube library would surely come out as a NSO subscription with the next console.
Is Nintendo keeping the GC library for easy money remasters? That would be a bit lame.

If it's not 60fps then Nintendo may had ruin their own game just like the Super Mario Sunshine port. Those time hits required 60fps accuracy to be able to pull off, going 30fps means doing any of the time hits required subtle delays now which makes the time hits not accurate like before. It's like if you play Street Fighter and to perform Ryu's Hadouken you had to slowly quarter circle motion the joystick by reducing the speed of input by 0.5 seconds after that before pressing punch to perform the move when originally the whole move was suppose to be just a smooth nonstop quarter circle motion then punch immediately, no delaying in inputs.

Nintendo ruin their own Super Mario Sunshine port when they used emulation for the Switch version instead of building it from the ground up not knowing that the Switch Joycon and Pro controllers doesn't support analog trigger controls unlike the GameCube so you couldn't control the flow of FLUDD's water spray unlike the original making the spraying control felt unnatural and less satisfying. It's like instead of perfecting their games they rather sell you an attracting product that only works when it wants to work and not one that'll work accurately like before. Now they still had til 2024 until the game came out, hopefully any framerate issue would be fix by then. We were lucky the Metroid Prime Remastered was 60fps out of the gate and that was a stealth release yet people still complain about something as minor as the hatch door design in the game.

Ehhhh it's no biggie. I doubt any regular punters would care in the slightest, the only drama about it will be amongst the 0.1-0.2% of the buying public on sites like this.

@HeadPirate This is objectively false. The GameCube supports digital display output via a D-Terminal port on DOL-001 models, and many GameCube titles, including TTYD, support progressive scan output. It says so on the back of the case on the North American version, and gives you a prompt to turn on progressive scan upon booting the game. TTYD, along with many other GameCube games, runs at 60 fps on digital displays.

Really not that acceptable. Even with the visual upgrades over the GC version it should easily be able to hit 60fps.

However I am not too worried as I think this game will end up being 60fps. Still very much in development with just a vague 2024 release date so maybe Nintendo capped the trailer at 30fps because the 60fps isn't ironed out yet.

Can't think of any remasters Nintendo has done yet that reduce the framerate from the original.

@GrailUK

60fps port every time.

But as I say above I still think it will be 60fps.

@Max_the_German
its one of the reasons why hopefully on things like the theoretical "switch 2" we will be seeing more cases of games giving the option of "graphics" or "performance" modes, it seems that its becoming more common on newer systems (though a few games on switch do have them)

30 fps 60 fps
It’s a paper Mario game

@Bunkerneath Because the YouTube video of the direct is 60fps. I could see that the Tomb Raider remakes were targeting 60fps, that the awesome Mario RPG remake is locked at 60fps, that fzero 99 is 60fps, and that this 1000 year door remake is 30fps. Definitely true that many people don't particularly notice the difference between 30 and 60. Then there's people like me who remember noticing what every new Gamecube and PS 2 game ran at when I first saw them on my TV.

@SBandy1 They've done it with some games, I think when they went from DS to 3DS.
I hope you're correct though. Would be sweet to have 1000 year door at 60fps on Switch and 120fps on whatever the next Nintendo console is called.

Yeah, it's unfortunate to see, but at least in this case, the game has received some beautiful visual upgrades so the lower framerate is more understandable, unlike the Metal Gear Solid games on Switch.

The game is most likely updating its gameplay at 60fps, while rendering output at 30fps. Modern game engines run their subsystems (input, physics, AI, graphics, sound, etc.) at different frame rates.

For this particular discussion, you have to take into account that memory bandwidth has not kept up with advances in CPU/GPU clock speeds, at least in the last 2 decades or so. There are physics limitations to memory speeds, as well as cost factors to consider. Faster memory is more expensive, so not a solution for a company that does not sell its hardware at a loss, like Nintendo. (The Switch has relatively low memory bandwidth, but that's more due to the Tegra being an off-the-shelf component that was not primarily designed for games.)

To put a number on it:

640*480 / 1920*1080 ≈ 15%

So the GC has about 6-7 times less pixels to generate per frame. Quite a difference, and one that cannot simply be addressed by "advances in hardware".

@120frames-please With a username like that, you can't really say you are unbiased.

Honestly as long as the game runs smoothly on 30fps I am going to love it anyway.

@sanderev I would never claim to be unbiased! I love high frame rates when playing games.

A game like this doesn't need 60fps. As long as it's a stable 30fps it'll be fine.

I don't consider myself a technical snob at all, but 60fps games feel so much more fluid. To my taste, I'd rather have 60fps set as the standard and then absolutely everything else has to work around that.

@Fizza M&L Superstar Saga 3DS remake was 60fps.

A couple things.

1. Don’t jump to conclusions yet. It’s still a year away (likely).

2. Just enjoy that Paper Mario: TTYD is coming at all.

I do agree with both sides of the argument. The game should be rendering at 60 fps if it did so on Gamecube. However, if it doesn’t, I really don’t believe this game will suffer as much as people believe it will. If it’s that important to you, Dolphin has been around for a while and can easily play PM at 60 FPS at 4K with an old CPU / GPU.

@HeadPirate Mate you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

"Most games SHOULD NOT TARGET 60fps"

Ridiculous. MOST games should absolutely be targeting 60fps, unless there is a very good reason not to. It's 2023 for god sake. Games like Breath of the Wild, Starfield, GTA etc are excusable because of how massive and demanding these open worlds are.

Masahiro Sakurai himself refers to 60FPS as "ideal"..

"most of the time 30 fps and motion blur is going to be literally indistinguishable from 60 fps"

This is 100 percent false, and ignores the fact that frame rate isn't solely about the graphics..

Which bring me to "Even worse if the idea that 30 fps might cause "latency" for button pushes. Literally the opposite of the truth."

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, but that's absolutely false. More frames = more times per second inputs are registered = less input lag

Not trying to be rude, I understand a lot of people swear they cannot tell a difference in frame rates. I don't know how this is possible, I would like to see studies done on it tbh.

Just want to say for people who CAN see it, it makes a world of difference. ESPECIALLY those unfortunate enough to suffer motion sickness from low/inconsistent frame rates. I can tell a games frame rate most of the time just by navigating menus for a couple of seconds.

It could be 10fps and 59.99 and it wouldn’t deter some. Why bother putting money and development time into something when the fanbase will buy it anyway?

@Mgalens No, the framerate is primarily a design choice by the developers for the selected target systems. As you can see with Starfield, a potent Xbox Series X can’t run this game with 60 fps, because Bethesda wanted the game to have complex physics and didn’t want to reduce complexity for Xbox. I bet there will be Switch 2 release games targeting 30 fps.

That's pathetic. Glad I still have the Gamecube version.

@Starman_Games You are right that "frame rate isn't solely about the graphics" but not in the way you formulate it. You are wrong about the input latency. Simply put: the frame rate for rendering graphics can be different from the frame rate for handling gameplay.

For example, the gameplay can update at 60 fps, while the graphics render at 30 fps. I.e. the game is updating gameplay (including input) for all frames, only drawing frames 1, 3, 5, etc, but not drawing frame 2, 4, 6, etc.

Motion blur is one solution for visually smoothing over the differences.

In fact, for high-speed racing games, the gameplay frame rate is usually higher than 60 fps, because 60 fps is too low to detect collisions at high speeds.

@GrailUK I would have never realized if it wasn't for people online analyzing everything.

So no deal breaker for me.
Sure it's a bummer, but I'll forget about it 10 minutes into the game

Welcome to the bitter, jaded comments of the NL comments section.

Such lofty standards. Such high expectations.

I'd have nowhere near the amount of games I had right now and I'd have missed out on some real gems if I'd paid attention to the naysayers.

I like games to look good, sure. I like them to run well. I don't expect 60FPS in any new game that isn't a ported upscale of an old game from technology that the Switch now dwarfs. This isn't that.

The Switch is showing its age.

It wasn't that powerful to begin with.

This game looks great. I'd prefer it to run at 60FPS. I'm not surprised that it doesn't. Unless this significantly affects gameplay it's a non-issue for me when it comes to laying down my money.

I won't 'buy anything', but framerate isn't high on my list of priorities. If the game performs steadily and feels good to play, then that's all I care about. That's why I have a Switch. That's why I prefer Nintendo. I don't understand why some of you here.

@Kyoko43

Your reading comprehension is a bit off.

He's saying you can't target an FPS because the Game Cube outputs scanning lines, not frames. How many frames you get is hardware dependent. PAL it's 59, NTSC it's 60. Progressive it's 30. And in the case your describing, the hardware is the modulator.

Before digital output, frame rate wasn't variable. He's saying it's stupid to say the old games "targeted" 60 FPS because that's just not how the hardware worked.

If Switch games will be backwards compatible with the next console, along with the rumor that TotK ran at 60 fps in the [Redacted] Dev kit, then I am still confident.
Who knows? Maybe all Switch games with poor performace issues will also acquire this upgrade once the new console drops.

@Qwiff @Starman_Games

And in an extremely limited hardware situation like the switch, you have to trade off frame generation for polling. If you want to spend more clock cycles on frame generation, you have less clock cycles to invest into I/O.

In a graphically intense game the Joy Con will generally be set to poll at 60hz, but it supports polling rates up to 250hz if you're not trying to max out the load elsewhere. A game drawing 30fps and looking for input 250 times a second is going to feel way more responsive then one drawing 60fps while also polling 60 times a second.

Polling at that high a rate requires, and at any rate benefits greatly from, having anti-ghosting sub-retune running, or even some type of intelligent input sanitation ... something you likely can't afford to do if you're targeting high graphic performance.

Everything is a trade off.

I remember when nobody talked about framerate. I certainly Don't recall kids in the playground around the time super mario world came out going, hey did you play the new Mario on Super Nintendo? Yeah it's totally radical dude! Mario can ride a dinosaur and there's a cool new cape he wears! I just wish it ran at 60 FPS.

Oh it doesn't run at 60 FPS? (Says the other kid) Well preorder cancelled.

LOL yeah that never happened.

@JackieCMarlow

I would think that the Switch could be perfectly capable running a GC game like PMTTYD in 60fps.

This is Nintendo. I trust their quality blindly - even if it ends up as 30fps I'm sure it'll still play perfectly and be a lot of fun.

Yeah if there's one thing Nintendo has in the bag it's the quality of their games. They actually care to make them the best they can be before releasing them to the public unlike certain other companies. I don't know what everyone is worried about. LOL of all the things to obsess over. A paper mario game might not run at 60 FPS. Oh no stop the presses! All is lost!

I still will never understand framerate hounds.

@Truegamer79

In fairness, as I've been trying to explain, frame rate simply didn't apply back then.

Analog devices output a number of scanning lines and it was your TV that decided how many frame per second to produce.

If there was a mismatch, like if you sent 60 fps to a 59 fps PAL TV ... it just wouldn't work. Frame rates were not variable.

It wasn't until PC graphic acceleration, the move from spirts to vector graphics, and digital outputs that FPS became a thing.

While it's not a slam dunk and other arguments can be made, Quake is likely the first video game where FPS was a meaningful number. And we have been talking about it ever sense.

People need to get over this. A good game is a good game and anyone who claims they "just can't" if a game is 30fps is an elitist snob who is no gamer. Obviously if the game has performance issues that's one thing, but a steady frame rate is nothing to complain about or be a mark against the game as a whole.

@Cyrax77 It's not a port. The game's visuals are massively updated. The difference here is more drastic than in Metroid Prime Remastered.

It's literally unplaya... oh wait no it's perfectly playable.

But still, it’s a pretty slowpaced game. To me, it doesn’t matter. I want this game so bad and I have faith in Nintendo. The game will be awesome 🙏

@WOLF13 glances at GameFreak

@GrailUK never crossed my mind either. I was just happy to see it appearing on switch.

It's a bummer that they updated the graphics and ended up having to cut the framerate in half. I imagine this game would be absolutely beautiful if they could get it running at a solid 60 like the original with the updated graphics.

But I guess as long as they keep it at a stable 30, it'll be fine.

If people want to complain and moan about frame rates, why don’t you go over and play Xbox and ps5 games. 9 times out of 10 Nintendo do an excellent job with releasing games that are actually finished and are playable. Unlike games like cyberpunk, fallout 76, anthem etc.

In a perfect world, everything would run at 60fps, but this just isn't the type of game that's gonna suffer much if at all. Assuming they take the time button presses into account and any other issues reducing the fps may cause, this is such a non-issue. I get the outrage over 3d all stars being 30fps, those games feel and play much better at 60 and the ports had no meaningful upgrades in visual quality. Again, this isn't a fast-paced action game and they've done significant visual enhancements. 60fps would've been nice, but it's just not gonna likely affect anyones enjoyment of the game.

...yeah this is a non issue for me. Not gonna miss out on a great game cos lower fps. I don't understand people's infatuation with that anyways. As long as things run smooth and I can tell character models just fine, what I care about is the gameplay more than anything else. TTYD is a bonafide classic and one of the best RPGs of all time, so I'm not gonna bounce out over something so superfluous.

I get the disappointment with a port like Tales of Symphonia, which looks just like its GameCube counterpart but fails to reach the same framerate, years later.
But this game is ground-up gorgeous. Of course we're going to have to sacrifice somewhere. Think of it like PS5 games with their high fidelity and performance modes. You want your performance TTYD, bring out the GC. You want your high fidelity...well, here it is!

Lol it's Paper Mario. 30 FPS is fine for a game like this.

@Max_the_German
i mean more on a game by game basis rather than a console specific one (FFVII remake is an example, it has a 60fps mode by default but has a mode with enhanced graphics but lower framerate)

It's not a twitchy fps so 30fps is fine. Hopefully stable frame rate though! No dips!

@HeadPirate Did you read my previous reply? GameCube has always supported digital output, and TTYD runs at 60fps in progressive scan. That's just a fact.

I don't think you understand what frame rate means. It's just how quickly the game can render a frame, it has nothing to do with the display. Refresh rate is how many frames the monitor is able to output. Refresh rate and frame rate are independent of each other.

TTYD played on a GameCube using analog output like composite video on a 60Hz 480i CRT TV will be interlaced, but the game still runs at 60fps. 60Hz is 60Hz, whether interlaced or progressive. The difference is getting a full resolution frame, or half-resolution (every other line). This is why you will see more combing/interlacing artifacts on a 60fps game using 480i output, because every other line contains a different frame being drawn every 30fps. You are still getting 60fps output on a 60Hz display, but the resolution is effectively halved compared to 480p.

TTYD played on a GC using digital video output, which it does support, will output at 480p 60fps. If you don't believe me, try hooking up a NTSC DOL-001 GC model with NTSC TTYD on a digital display.

The original TTYD on GCN is 480i 60FPS, not 480p 60FPS. This means each Fram only renders at half the resolution, and every 2 adjacent frames are interlaced to form the full image.

So yes, TTYD on GCN is "60FPS", but with a big caveat.

I honestly might skip this one. I like TTYD, but I can't say that I love it. And having its frame rate cut in half is a major downgrade. Remakes should be better than the original, not worse. The visuals look nice, but they also looked nice in the original, so the upgrade there isn't worth the performance drop.

@westman98 FYI, this is not true. Paper Mario TTYD absolutely does run in 480p 60fps. Nearly every Nintendo published game on the GCN runs at 480p, and Paper Mario is no different. Even just tested it again myself, and it does.

@LikelySatan
Ah come on paper mario is not THAT tight. If anything the mario & luigi games were more demanding in that regard.
I definitely get that people would think it's a pity, after all it is a step backward. I was just saying it's probably not that big a deal

So you're saying I should just play this on Steam Deck still, got it.

@MrHappyFace Not sure you understood what I said.

The GameCube does in fact support digital video output and progressive scan. There is a digital AV out port on DOL-001 models. Many GC games take advantage of this, including TTYD. TTYD can run in progressive scan on a digital display, and it does so at 480p 60fps.

Progressive vs Interlaced is not related to the frame rate. 60fps or 30fps NTSC GC games will run at 60fps or 30fps respectively whether connected via analog or digital. The difference between 480i and 480p is rendering full-resolution frames, or alternating half-resolution frames. Either way, on a 60Hz display, a different image is being displayed on the screen every 1/60th of a second.

As long as the game runs well, smooth and isn't a mess then I'm happy.

I'm sure it'll come out just fine.

@sanderev Even as someone who will always want 60fps no matter what but I rather play in 30fps knowing that it is a solid 30 then a variable fps.

@Ironcore Why would you move left and right at 30fps make you ghost like crazy?

I'm so accustomed to 30fps that 60 is legit disorienting hahaha

@BTB20 https://youtu.be/_SzGQkI-IwM?si=9bFa7-Mj23jb1Rb2

@X68000 No way, having a lowered framerate is really going to mess with the reaction time when comes to enemies attacking you and you either have to counter or block, and the window of timing for that is more difficult to predict.

People get outraged whenever certain games don't hit 60fps on Switch because they think developers could optimize games better, but this is way more important than just an aesthetic choice, yet everyone has no issue with it despite this being a first party Nintendo game which was originally 60fps on Gamecube.

@HeadPirate buddy there were still Gamecube games that targeted 30 fps. Framerate is still a thing on old consoles. If it wasn't you couldn't plug them into modern tvs. And frankly most of this just reads like excusing poor optizimation. Even if TTYD doesn't "need" 60 fps.

@GrailUK It's almost as if it affects gameplay in some way...

Knowing Nintendo, it's practically impossible something here will be downgraded for the final product. In fact, its release date points to the other way around happening with Switch's successor. 60fps should be guaranteed with more powerful hardware.

The trailer definitely has been running on the Switch we know, and it looks very impressive for the hardware, probably even more than The Origami King. When Intelligent Systems develop their visuals in-house, they are capable of amazing stuff

@Truegamer79 Super Mario World did run at 60fps (like almost everything back then), so that was a non-issue.
If it had run at only 30, it wouldn't look or feel nearly as good to play, and you'd probably find yourself missing some of the tougher jumps.

PS: This doesn't go quite so far back, but I distinctly remember F-Zero X, Super Smash Bros., and the Dreamcast's library in general being praised for their smooth motion compared to other games of the time. Not as many people knew why at the time, but there was a noticeable difference.

@Kyoko43 I can only give you one like, but thanks for your detailed (and most importantly, accurate!) explanations on that.

The whole misconception of "60fps interlaced is basically just 30fps" is everywhere, and it's getting old. Though some of the pseudo-technical mumbo-jumbo in this comment thread is on a whole other level!

Eh, 30fps 60fps is fine by me. I'm used to games with FPS lower than that and I still don't have a problem. As long as it's playable, I'll be happy

@TheBigK dude me too. I’m used to playing the switch Kirby games at 30 fps that whenever I play Kirby fighters 2 I get a bit thrown off.

People who are excited for this should see the wool they're pulling over your eyes.

They know you want GameCube on the virtual NSO thing BADLY, but they also know they can do minimal work (in this case possibly downgrading it, if fps is your thing) and slap a shiney new $60 price tag on it and make a bundle. So thus, they won't ever release GC games on NSO+ when these projects sell well. Enjoy!

Gotta be honest, as long as it doesn’t go below, I couldn’t care less.

@russell-marlow yeah...almost...

@censwordship This is clearly not ‘minimal work’ here though is it.

It’s a massive visual upgrade. And yeah the frame rate might be 30fps (we don’t know yet, the final might be higher) but it’s also not a game that requires 60 for gameplay.

Also I’d honestly much rather we get nice remasters of these GC games than the dated originals on the additional subscription on top of the subscription. Which actually would be minimal work for them.

The resolution meant less for the Gamecube original being played on CRTs, but is more important now with most people using flatscreens. However, the 30fps is definitely an unwelcome downgrade.

Does this mean that the 20 year old emulator version will play TYD twice as good as the enhanced version?… Make it make sense Nintendo!

Nintendo releasing games without 60 FPS?

What's next? Water is wet?

It's telling that most people needed this "analysis" to even notice It's a 30fps game. It was obvious to me watching it, as well as the fact that Colour Splash and Origami had the same target.

To say that because the GameCube version ran at 60, that the Switch version should also run at 60 is missing the point a bit. We are talking about a remake, the engine is new, the assets are completely rebuilt, etc. Because it's a remake, the timing based attacks will most likely be adjusted to fit the new target anyway.

Also it's crazy that some people play primarily on a Switch but will decide not to play certain games because the resolution isn't high enough for them.

Can someone please explain how the game loses the ability to portray the game at 60fps?

Er. It’s paper Mario, not some fps.

There’s no need for it to be 60fps…and I doubt anyone would’ve even noticed if they weren’t told about it.

Button latency is only an issue if the game is checking inputs at 30fps. If it's checking at twice the render rate, it'll be fine.

Honestly, unless we’re talking about a fighting game, I really don’t understand why some people are so obsessed with 60FPS. I get the issue with sacrificing gameplay for graphics, but…how many of us would really notice much of a difference if we weren’t told?

The graphics really do look like a massive upgrade, and as long as the 30FPS is consistent, I’ll take the upgrade. I’m just happy that this game gets to see the light of day again.

This is news? I can’t believe anyone cares

@NoLife In this case, the new engine has fancier lighting, and it's running in HD, both of which make it run much slower than the old engine. The Switch just isn't able to keep up with all the extra load, so rendering every second frame (30 instead of 60) is the only way to keep it running without sacrificing the fancy graphics.

In some other cases, though, it's just a lack of optimization (MGS2), or bad programming decisions and a lack of optimization (Tales of Symphonia).

i really don't care about the frame rate and visual effect of the cut to 30fps but in principle a downgrade from such an old game bothers me

This shouldn't even matter, I'd rather have a 30 fps game than no game at all.

If this would be an issue after release, then why can't they patch the game with 60 fps? I honestly think it's still early to tell since we're just hearing about this gem now.

Thankfully I still have the original so I'll just replay that... no need to double dip on a downgraded port.

I'm pretty sure Switch 2 will be backwards compatible so.... No worries at all then?

I hope rock solid 60 FPS will become a standard with Switch 2.