Recently we were invited by The Pokémon Company and Nintendo to pop down to TPC’s UK headquarters in London to give a build of Pokémon Scarlet & Violet a right ruddy going over. It’s less than a month until launch – and we were informed that the build we played was not the final release build – so how is everything looking as we rapidly approach the 11th hour?
Let’s get the bad news out of the way first: in the build we played, performance is not very good. We were really quite disappointed at how the game ran in docked mode, and were unable to test its handheld capabilities. There was plenty we absolutely did like about the game, but we want to cover this hotly queried topic straight away.
The game appears to be running at around 720p whenever you’re in the overworld, with little to no anti-aliasing as far as we can tell, and the maximum frame rate of 30fps is not consistently achieved when moving around the world in a reasonable manner. Objects and characters that are only a few in-game metres from the player run, in busy scenarios, at an even further reduced rate, a technique used by a lot of games to prevent frame drops and poor performance elsewhere, but in this case it’s not enough to keep the master frame rate consistent.
You might remember the recent trailer that showed off a gym challenge where the player had to corral Sunflora, with the Pokémon behaving in a very choppy manner even immediately behind the player; this is indicative of a lot of the busier scenes we encountered. Worse yet this was true with a Sunflora that we encountered in a battle during the same challenge. Our Pokémon’s frame rate was consistent with the rest of the world, but the Sunflora was idly bouncing around at as little as half the rate, possibly lower, and when we tried to switch our Pokémon to another it took a suspiciously long time, as if the game was having to free up some RAM to make space for the next Pokémon’s model. Hmm…
Textures in a lot of the more open areas can be extremely smeary as well. In the main city of Mesagoza (which is not part of the open world and requires a separate loading screen), walls and floors and chairs all practically blur together into what we can sadly only call a mess. The game isn’t pretty in busy, open areas, and yet it still doesn’t manage to maintain a decent frame rate. Frankly, we were gutted with what we saw.
What compounds this even further is that interiors – such as shops, gyms, and the like – not only have much higher fidelity textures everywhere, but also seem to run at a significantly greater resolution with a solid frame rate. We ran into the mentor/rival character Nemona in a gym and her model was absolutely gorgeous, same with the player character. It felt like we were getting a glimpse of what the developers wanted the game to look like, but something – be it funding, the engine, or funding to develop a new engine – was holding things back.
But performance aside, there’s still plenty to enjoy from what we played. A whole host of quality-of-life features have been introduced to streamline the gameplay and make things just feel better. Trainer battles no longer use the ‘line of sight' system, instead requiring you to interact with said trainer in order to kick their level 4 Hopip back to the stone age. A small change perhaps, and although the nostalgia bug in our brain is telling us that the older system was better because it could run on a Game Boy, we can’t deny that this has been overdue for a little while now. All stylings are completely gender non-specific as well, so that haircut and those boots you fancied in Sword and Shield that belonged arbitrarily to the other body type are no longer out of your grasp. Nice.
Caught Pokémon now have this delightful animation when their Pokédex entry is completed: slamming their personalised book of info and jamming it onto the appropriate digital shelf. It just makes catching a Pokémon feel more like an event, you know? Pokémon that are nearby when you engage another in battle remain where they were for the duration, just sort of standing there. It’s slightly odd to see but mechanically means that entering a mass of Pokémon by accident can spell disaster if you’re not prepared, as you’re forced to take them out in succession or do your best to weave your way out. Pokémon are (largely) beasts, after all, you should be made to feel at least a tiny bit intimidated.
We weren’t sure what to make when the new Tera Raids were shown off at first, assuming they’d just be Dynamax Raids with more of a grandmother’s crystal swan souvenir from Bourton-on-the-Water-vibe. Pleasingly although the core concept is the same, the execution is much better. The real-time battling system keeps the tension high and prevents an indecisive opponent from boring the rest of their team to tears. The atmosphere is quite excellent as well, as the Terastallized Pokémon is reflected on all sides of the chamber like it’s trapped inside an enormous Fox’s Glacier Mint.
Multiplayer is also something we were pleased to try out. There’s no laundry list of available activities for you to take part in with your chums outside of battling and trading, but the complete lack of restriction in regards to where you can go means you’re just free to go about your adventure however you see fit, and your friends can do the same at their own pace as well. It’s just nice to be able to faff around with chums.
There’s a lot of passion that’s been poured into the game, which makes it all the more frustrating that the performance is so consistently sub-par. Little flourishes can be found all over the place, such as the onlookers chanting as you whittle a Gym Leader down to their final Pokémon, or your player character shielding themselves from the rain with their arm as your sprint through the landscape. Little details like this are what can take a game from ‘good’ to ‘excellent’, but we just can’t look past how disappointingly poor it performs and looks in a lot of its environments… because it’s everywhere.
We really hope that the final build of the game irons out a lot of the technical shortcomings that we experienced, because the core concepts that the game offers are quite exciting. This close to release, however, we’re dubious as to whether or not things will be ship-shape in time. Keep an eye out for our full review when it goes live in due course — hopefully, we’ll have cause to be singing a different tune.
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Comments 145
Initially I had no intention of buying the game at all (Sword and Shield lost completely lost me) but ended up preordering a physical copy just because it's available at 40% under RRP here at the moment. This only raises my concerns though and I might still just end up cancelling before launch even with the crazy low price.
Very disappointing that Pokémon still hasn’t got a solid hand on this console and how to make games for it even after 5 years. If the game releases like this then I think this will have to be my last Pokémon game, to many better games to play that actually work and respect their audience
Imagine a world, where a Pokemon game had the performance of Super Mario Odyssey or Splatoon.
I am reminded of similar concerns prior to Arceus, albeit they were based on earlier footage than perhaps this hands-on was. Fingers crossed they've got it in-hand.
We need to stop giving them a boss for big standard performance
At this point it seems like The Pokémon Company needs a team of Satoru Iwatas to come in and fix their engine, much like Iwata-san did when he worked on the original Pokémon.
@ketrac So a world where it was developed by a different company then?
Let's give the biggest multimedia franchise in the world a pass due to poor funding
@BenAV That's a great idea, which I 100% support.
I never usually have issues with Pokemon games running at a locked 30FPS since that's basically how they've always been since the jump to 3D. My real issue lies when they start to absolutely chug in certain scenarios. Sandstorm/Double Battles in the 3DS games, the Wild Area when online in SwSh, consistent frame drops of that degree can utterly kill my enjoyment of exploring in Pokemon games. And seeing SV run as....meh as it does (from this footage at least) when it's entire selling point is exploration? It does instill a bunch of concern in me.
I'm still going to get it because what Pokemon as a series does in terms of varied creature collecting, memorable locales and detailed competitive is still utterly brilliant and no amount of performance hiccups is going to change that. But SV, at least compared to when it was revealed in February, is probably the least hype I've been for a mainline Pokemon game to come out....ever.
And that kind of just makes me sad.
I hardly think we'll EVER (caps for emphasis btw) see a Pokemon game in full 60 fps anytime soon. The closest we got to 60fps was Gen 6 when you look at your Trainer Card or the Pokemon Storage. And that was only partial.
Though being the they're RPGs, do the series REALLY benefit from 60fps? To me, 30fps is my optimal "standards". 60fps is nothing more than a luxury to me. Optional but not mandatory.
Performance concers are super disappointing to hear. The wild areas in Sword and Shield ran like crap though and I enjoyed the hell out of that. So hopefully the end result is fun enough and make the technical issues worth it.
It's increasingly more convincing that BotW 2's launching with new Switch hardware. BotW 2 was scheduled for 2022 so if there was no need for a delay and launched with new Switch hardware we'd be seeing Scarlet/Violet on that hardware as well.
Honestly as I could stand all flaws in Sword and Shield, there's no way I'm playing this if performance is terrible, of course I still hope this game gonna be amazing after all GF statements that SW&SH was so bad, because was made by studio newcomers and main team was already working on this game and one with Arceus.
@DanijoEX It's not just about 30fps, it can't even hold 30fps!
If the game had great art direction and graphics, by Switch standards, it being locked at 30 instead of 60 wouldn't be an issue for anyone.
At this point, it performs, looks and sounds terrible. Not like a 2022 game.
@Dizzymario "this will have to be my last Pokémon game"
Says every Poke' fan before going back on their word for next announced game.
@ketrac At this point, I'm still getting my Double-Pack edition of S/V regardless of the issues. I alrdy put money down on it as it is.
Remember how Legends Arceus actually ran pretty well? That was weird. Everything about that game felt like a breath of fresh air for the series, despite the bad graphics.
I won't say I'll never get this, but with its current issues, I'll be passing on it for the moment.
I just want PLA 2.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure I buy removing the line-of-sight trainer battles as a QoL. Maybe initially, but I always found it useful when returning to old areas as a way of knowing which trainers I've already battled.
I will keep getting the game regardless of its quality but I will keep saying Yokai Watch games by Level-5 are still better than Pokemon games.
@Grumblevolcano Pokemon games have always ran badly since the 3DS days with X and Y so I don't think these games running badly is indicative of anything.
Whilst I do want a Switch 2 I don't think we'll have it in May 2023. I'd love to be proven wrong however.
@DanijoEX That's your choice, and I'm afraid that's one of the reasons we'll keep getting crap, because people like you will buy anything.
I will not purchase, and haven't purchased any of the Pokemon games on Switch. I've borrowed and played at least a few hours of each.
If you watch the Japanese trailer with the sunflora they are perfectly running fine. Probably just the build you guys got.
@Kiz3000 The preview's performance issues sounds more like if you ran Sun/Moon on a standard 3DS than running X/Y on a standard 3DS.
I don’t mind about the visuals but hopefully the performance is improved before launch. I’m quite easy going and forgiving when it comes to these things though (I grew up played the fallouts and Skyrim on ps3….).
But maybe it would have been better for them to have released this game next fall and have a big expansion for Arceus here instead. That might have been better but we’ll see.
Fizza wrote:
I'd like to make a little addendum to this after seeing a bunch of other previews from other sources.
Firstly, a bunch of the quality of life from PLA seems to have been brought over to SV such as the ability to nickname whenever, crouch and slide (not exactly like PLA's dodge roll but close enough) and, most surprisingly, the ability to perform back strikes on Pokemon in order to give yourself and extra turn at the start. That's one of my favourite mechanics in PLA and to see it brought over (in addition to everything else listed) lets me breathe a big sigh of relief.
Secondly, clothing customisation is not limited to the outfits we've seen them wear in every single trailer according to Gamexplain (THANK GOD), in addition to having the option to customise your hair/eye colour and face shape before starting the game which is an absolutely lovely new addition that'll make a lot of people very happy.
Lastly, sandwich making seems to be able to produce utter abominations and that just puts a big smile on my face.
I've still got my concerns (as I've said above) but a lot of these new pieces of info are pulling me back in bit by bit (which will absolutely be on full throttle come the week of November 18th ).
@ketrac I can live with that.
But how do the trees look?!
Honestly it's still a preview version. But you don't really play Pokémon games for the visuals, and I am going to play it 100% handheld so it really doesn't matter to me.
Dissapointing. How can the Pokèmon company still messing up their main games in 2022🤦 There is no excuse that they cannot create a full Pokémon game like someone else above said Mario Odyssey or something familiar. They are a multi billion dollar company and choose the cheapest way possible. Even Zelda Links Awakening looks better than that. Anyways, lets see how the game will go, maybe the issues that Nintedolife mentioned will be patched when the game gets released. Known the Pokémon company i doubt it, they probably will fix it after players complains comes knocking at their doorstep.
Thanks for the low down. I'm sure they'll continue to work problemematic things out. (As long as we don't have another lumiose city issue.) I wonder if this means they'll delay it to a further date?
Still hyped because of the features seeming like things I'd be into, but goodness, I'm no gamefreak/pokemon company hater by any means but they should seriously get their act together. Pokémon has just become a laughing stock in terms of how much money it has and how it fails to deliver even the simplest of polish, but even more so, an insult to how other games put in so much more effort and achieve far better results on a far more impressive scale... yet pokémon still outsells them purely on brand alone. F*k economics I guess, because as long as it sells, they won't see reason enough to change, and a lot of fans will still be happy with the bare minimum sometime because it's pokémon.
I'm still buying it because I honestly don't mind performance issues that much and it genuinely seems like the formula is at least getting more to my taste, but I shouldn't have to feel guilty that I'm essentially voting for 'more of the same' with my wallet. I should just be able to expect pokemon games to give it their all, but the opposite is true nowadays: I should expect pokémon to be mediocre at best, run stably in the very best circumstances, and that nothing will motivate this to change the next time around.
Ah well, let's hope they at least fix some stuff up before release but as we saw with sword and shield, no reason to have high hopes there either, even if I hope for the best.
The virgin Pokenon vs the chad Rabbids XCOM game
If the performance is that bad this might be my last pokemon ever.
So sad this franchise is lagging behind so much in visuals, performance and engaging gameplay.
For crying out loud. The amount these games sell and they can't hire more technical chops over there, it's ridiculous.
I did anticipate the performance would suffer due to the larger size of the game they're trying to go for, I think the lower quality models of the Pokemon compared to Sw&Sh are evidence that they've had to cut corners in places to accommodate for a bigger game world, but honestly I think it will be worth it in the end. Having the Gym challenge only be 1 of 3 stories within the game speaks a lot about how big this game is going to be, and I'm happy that they're being ambitious and trying newer and bigger things, even if some of the graphics, textures and performance does take a bit of a hit in places.
Well, that is a shame, definitely won't stop me from getting it though. Hopefully those performance issues will be smoothed out by release day.
Some people here are too melodramatic.
Why, it's almost as if their strive for yearly releases is preventing them from delivering actual quality! What a shocker!
I really really really really wish they would flippin' delay their games for once to ensure their customers get the best experience they deserve. You can disagree with me all you want but if you do, (not wanting a delay I mean, not if you buy it,) then in my eyes you're just settling for lower quality than the series rightfully deserves to be.
And yes I know they have deadlines with all the surrounding merchandise and whatnot which needs to match up with the game release. I frankly just don't care. I want my gosh darn Pokémon games to have actual quality again. As Pokémon is one of, if not THE highest grossing media franchise out there, they should really be able to achieve it. As it is, I find it rather embarrassing. It's a very "eh, good enough" mentality.
Ah well. Not that I really care that much anymore. They already lost me as a fan since the first generation, and at this point I don't think they're ever going to win me back if they keep going like this.
I hope all the people who still stick with Pokémon will still be able to enjoy the games though!
@Eagly Agreed. Xenoblade games with its complexities set the bar pretty high and Monolith Soft is really incredible... arguably the best developer for Switch games imo.
These games are going to be awesome, easily best switch games of 2022, can't wait
I’ve never skipped a Pokemon game. Usually preorder as soon as I can. I have no interest in this game and am defo skipping
Imagine if Pokemon games developed by Insomniac (developer of Ratchet & Clank) and we can have a 60 fps Pokemon games with completely new game mechanics.
Is this even that big a deal? It’s not like this is an action game where a lower frame rate can kill the experience. It’s a turn based RPG.
@Fizza Thank you for your sharing. I feel Gamefreak always
optimize Pokemon games pretty well so I'm surprised to read this issue... I'm sure they will patch it before release. I like what I see in Sword and Shield so I think I'll buy this too.
I don't think most people understand the sheer scale of these games. They may not run perfectly, but if you're a Pokémon fan and you skip them... you'll be missing out sorely.
Do as you please, however. We all have the ability to choose our own adventures. 🍵🐸
Why am I not surprised. Games like this are what holding back the Switch.
Every time I bring up that the switch is a severely underpowered system and that we need a more powerful console that will allow for the big AAA multiplats or even Nintendo’s own 1st party titles to flourish people jump on me and tell me that it’s the developer and that they need to better optimize. No that’s not the case most of the time! This is a hardware issue and it needs to be addressed. We need new hardware with better than decent stats so we don’t run into issues like this. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again- having to build games around weak hardware like the switch only stifles creativity and the overall vision of the developer. Just because you don’t want to spend the money or don’t have the money to buy new hardware doesn’t mean we should all suffer along with you and be stuck with mediocrity.
We need new hardware. It’s time!
This does kind of damper my hype meter a bit. Let's hope its truly early build issues and not a real representation of the final product
@Anti-Matter We could have that, but never on the current hardware. It’s like trying to squeeze water out of a rock.
i don't understand how pokemon is a worldwide phenomenon that presumably makes a bumload of dosh and yet, the (recent) games all have this off-putting amateurish tinge to them.
My hacked switch has the ability to be safely overclocked and it improves performance in all games considerably.
Not sure why Nintendo is so scared of running the system in docked a bit faster, it would clear up a ton of the framerate issues garaunteed.
Age of Calamity holds an almost locked 45fps in single player with the gpu and cpu overclocked.
@DanijoEX well the GBA ones did run at 60fps.
I mean 30fps at 1080p would be fine, at 720p I demand 60fps from a game that looks worse than some upscaled GameCube games.
I know it is not about the graphics, but Arceus proved me that even as someone who doesn’t care about graphics and framerate in Pokémon games, that game just made me angry at how incompetently they made it.
Even if it was fun, there are so many other games on Switch including Nintendo games that do this all so much better.
Did Gamefreak gamble on games released around this time having performance issues as well? Tough luck though, as we've got some pretty good ports recently and people probably will be less lenient on Pokemon than usual (especially considering that Gamefreak as this point should know Switch in and out).
@Piyo Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You get it! This is exactly why! Half of the thick headed ppl can’t seem to comprehend this. We need new hardware now!
@Tendogamerxxx Optimisation is a thing and when you're developing your game exclusively for one system, you really should know how to take advantage of what you have instead of focusing on what could be.
I just have a feeling that it'll be enjoyable and good enough for me, so I plan to keep my pre-order unless something big really changes this. The writing looks better than Sword & Shield, so I really hope so.
But they really should fix technical issues, especially performance because it should play well in that aspect, as well as look good.
I didn't like how buggy Sword was in that aspect at times, but thankfully other issues are why I felt disappointed in that game, a lot more than the performance.
I am keeping my eyes on most of the footage and information. But not much on the leaks. If I get really concerned, I'll wait for reviews before pre-ordering again, but for now it looks enjoyable enough for me, so hopefully it will be.
Don't get me wrong, they actually do do a lot right, and I'm glad that is the case, I can't criticise everything, it's just it needs to comes together well and not be too lacking in certain areas.
Because the writing and stories looks better than Sword so far, I think I'll just like it anyway, but still!
I'm a lot easier to please, but I want them to fix these type of issues too.
I can't run for longer than a minute so I think I'll be fine with some these flaws. I've played worse.
Please Nintendo, SPEND SOME TIME TO ACTUALLY POLISH THE POKEMON GAMES! There's no rush, WE CAN WAIT, we just want a good Pokemon experience once and for all! If they didn't have to release 1000 Pokemon games every generation, they wouldn't have this many technical issues and graphics from 2 gens before...
It's sad to see a series as popular and with so much potential as this one looking so bad and running so poorly. Really. They just need some time to polish it!
I'll be holding out awhile regardless. I still haven't played PLA and haven't made up my mind on what version I want. Besides, if there's DLC, I'd prefer to pick a release that has that + the full game on a physical cart like my copy of Shield.
I feel like gamefreak has always been a coding disaster.
Frankly Gamefreak should be strictly the creative team and someone else should be programming the game itself.
And yes we can go more then 3 years without a new gen if there needs more polishing.
The visuals wouldn't have bothered me if it was able to keep a good framerate.
TBH this is the kind of thing where i wouldn't mind a delay if it meant more time to iron out the kinks and make the end experience better but i cant see that happening especially this close to launch.
Nothing to do with the hardware, there have been some fantastic looking/running new releases and ports lately. Gamefreak just can't do home console games, and it doesn't matter because each new gen will outsell the last.
And no, it won't look any better because 'footage is not final' this is what we get, either buy it or don't, I just hope everyone can be civil and not fall out over it again like every other time.
I'm gonna buy it, because Pokemon Is this weird compulsion that I can't fully understand, I'm guessing many people are in the same camp and will buy it despite its blatant flaws, because the gameplay/designs can't be beaten by other creature collectors, at least it hasn't been yet.
But I fully respect people who have had enough of this company not being able to produce games with bare minimum quality and no longer want any part of it.
The recent overview trailer for the game ran better in the Japanese version than the English version, especially in the scene with all the Sunflora.
It would be funny if the Japanese preview builds also ran better than the English preview builds just to continue this trend of the JP version always being a more optimized version than the EN version.
OK so another average Pokemon game on Switch could be on the cards... I'll wait for the final build before jumping to conclusions, but it's pretty frustrating that, meanwhile, we continue to wait for...
A new 2D Mario...
A new Donkey Kong...
A new 2D Zelda...
Anything Star Fox...
A new 3D Mario (it's fair to say its due)...
I get it's different teams, but that doesnt excuse the fact Nintendo have backed this horse THREE times now for the holidays and every time it has been distinctly average.
But hey. It sells well...
I suspect there will be a day 1 patch. This did just drop it from day 1 for me but it’s not like I don’t have plenty to play.
A game with that bad of performance issues shouldn't have affiliate links attached to the bottom for pre orders. Where is the integrity for us "lovely people??"
Should it run better? Probably.
Do I care? No.
I don't play Pokemon games for the sweet visuals. And I'm not gonna deny myself the enjoyment of the games to try to send a message about it. shrug
Is anyone really surprised given Game Freak's recent history of producing half-assed work? LOL
@rupert_the_giantbear what's especially baffling is that the spinoff games consistently have GREAT visuals. Pokken and New Pokemon Snap are gorgeous. Of course they're developed by different studios. But that just points to how much Game Freak needs a serious shake up in some way. The budget is there to make these games look and play great, why isn't it being utilized?
I've been annoyed with people's constantb whining about the series. but I'm leaning towards joining those voices. this is ridiculous.
Inexperienced coding is the reason.
I'll say the same about the bad that I've said about the hype: I'm withholding my opinion until it releases. I was super hyped for PLA, then just before it a few early reviews shot it down. Then I got it and it's my favorite hands down. I even liked Sword, yet could never force myself to finish Moon. With Pokemon, you just never know if the next upcoming iteration will be for you or not. However, I REALLY don't see them releasing a game that laggy and...almost lo-def sounding. The updated build probably has some updates, plus the possibility of a "day one patch" almost every game seems to get now. There's just too much potential good yet also potential bad to call it early. What I will say is this: If y'all would stop preordering, they'd stop shoveling games out in obviously unfinished states knowing they can spend months/years patching it up to total forgiveness. Not saying that'll happen here, just saying if it does, maybe stop paying the plumber BEFORE he finishes unclogging your pipe.
@Tendogamerxxx
One issue ive seen whenever new hardware is discussed is that you get people who seem to act like you are looking for "4k 120fps" or some other hyperbole when the majority of the time new hardware is brought up is when a game is struggling to maintain 30fps720p
though this time its an odd case because its a game that is exclusive for switch and a first party published game, its why like others have said i would have bee more than fine waiting longer if it meant a more stable final product.
@ketrac
Yeah i am fine with 30fps if the game can hold it but below 30fps just feels really bad to play for me.
i know its not an action game that demands precision but when somethings struggling to hit 30 it can make just exploring the environments feel not as fun.
They compared the performance issues to the recent trailer meaning its probably the same or similar build however its important to note those issue never existed in the Japanese trailer so they likely won't be of concern. Still not good that a build that rough is the best they can do a month before release.
@Darkred401 or all the trailer footage was captured on a pc.
720p, unstable 30 FPS, blurry textures - is this a game in 2022 or an Xbox 360-PS3 game from 2009? I know we don't play Pokémon for the graphics, but when it's this bad it detracts from it even if you just care about the gameplay.
Don't do annual releases - give these games & concepts more time to bake. Fill the gap in-between with spin-offs, in-game Events, updates, & and an occasional remake. I would rather have 1 good main game that gets updates and DLC along with various spin-offs every 3 years than what we get now. I consider the Golden Age of Pokémon Gens 3-5... the main games, spin-offs, remakes - all of them were so good. At least they can't take those away, though TPC & community are doing their damnedest to make them hard to play w/o emulating...
@Tendogamerxxx Nintendo stopped caring about being a technical leader when they made the Wii.
Microsoft and Sony can be the hungry dinosaurs fighting over the "AAA titles" for all they care.
@Brydontk Maybe they'll have an indicator above their head.
@shoeses Annual releases? S&S came out in 2019. I mean, I know there was Legends Arceus, but the mainline games have had a 3yr break.
I couldn't finish Arceus because of the bland open world and worried that this will be more of the same. I really liked Sword and Shield, with that mixture of detailed linear world design with open world hubs. My fave game of all time is Persona 5 so I guess it explains a lot of my tastes. The interest in linear was embeded into me by the way Rockstar designed games when I was a kid in the 90's.
@hypercoyote If they have an indicator over their head then that's a horse of a different color. But I guess that goes to show how little faith I have in GF not to remove something without adding something to help Pokemon meet modern gaming standards.
I'm sure the comments are filled with "we need a switch pro 2 plus!!" when in reality we need less lazy developers or ones with better understanding of the intricacies of the Switch.
If NieR can run at a flawless 30 fps while I'm zooming around blowing up robots, the Switch can handle some bright grass and trees with low detail textures while you wait for pop-in Pokemon that aren't causing particle effects.
@Darylb88 Bland empty open world games seem to do well here. BoTW is still worshipped even if there's nothing in that world to do, unless you like collecting seeds. Arceus is mind numbingly dull and repetitive in a ugly open world. Fanboys, what can ya do.
Gonna wait till reviews before I pull the trigger, might be the first Pokemon I skip.
@Flint
If people really cared that much about visuals or performance in Pokemon games, the franchise would have cratered many years ago. I'm old enough to remember the 3DS entries where the frame rates could drop to the single digits at times, all while being linear 240p games with no controllable camera, yet people seemed...fine with it ¯\(ツ)/¯.
I think Game Freak is just a mediocre game developer in general and have been for years and years ...Monolith should be allowed to have a go at a mainline entry, or Intelligent Systems, or literally anyone else. In any case, they are in desperate need of help or a delay. I've said this since the reveal ...They're rushing it, like always, but sure, because of all the anime stuff, trading cards, merchandise and existing agreements they have to push it out anyway I guess, but why do so many hardcore fans put up with these full priced beta tests? You deserve so much more, right? Maybe? Am I wrong? I mean, just look at all other Nintendo IP's recently ...They sell a fraction of these games yet are absolutely amazing and you can really tell the developers are competent and are giving it their all. This is literally the biggest franchise on Earth ...When will we get a Pokémon game that has even a crumb of actual polish and time behind it?
...Or maybe I'm just being a huge prick right now and these games are perfect just the way they are. You can like what you like, I really don't want to judge anyone. Just my opinion.
@KingMike
The thing is there is a wide difference between AAA and a game which has trouble hitting a stable 30fps.
The gap between switch and the other systems is wide enough that a theoretical switch 2 could still be a significant upgrade without competing with ps5/XBsX etc (mobile chips for example have progressed quite a bit since the switch launch)
@Vil
The way i see it during these situations is that criticism is all fair game considering a lot of these technical issues are things that can be measured.
In the same way its fine for someone to enjoy a game despite said issues, its more when you have those who outright dismiss those who are criticising it as "whiners"
@AlexOlney I can't believe you referenced Bourton-on-the-Water. I was there a month ago but I didn't see any Pokémon
Game Freak is easily one of the least competent AAA studios I've ever seen. It's embarrassing.
Irony is calling: the only thing that's been holding things from looking like the inteded vision is the console. People wanted a huge open world RPG Pokémon game with stunning visuals? That's the price.
You might want things to be ironed out when the game releases, but at this point the only thing that would allow that would be scaling back some of the graphical settings. For me, that would be unacceptable.
Not that the game is looking perfectly polished anyway, but it's certainly looking like one of the most ambitious games on the console. Speaking about BoTW, no... I simply can't explain myself how Nintendo managed to deliver a polished open world like that day one. Maybe it was their signature optimisation that Game Freak could never reach.
Besides, it's the main experience that counts. These days you can fix these performance issues by just upgrading into a hardware one generation ahead, but the content of the game will define its greatness. Game Freak wanted something big with this game, maybe even bigger if you count the compressed textures and models as an indicator of hardware limitations.
AND that's where the call for the Switch's successor comes!
Nevermind that. Let's just remember what will truly be important about this game: how it stacks in what makes a Pokémon game great (according to long-time fans at least)
1. Challenge and Difficulty
2. Connection with your Pokémon
3. The World
The closer we get to release date, ugh I will just say this game deserved a downloadable demo!
I was really hoping it would run like Arceus. My standards aren't super high, but I may wait to see if the performance improves at least somewhat before buying. I was looking forward to this game but I don't buy every Pokemon game so I'll skip it if I don't think it would be fun and pleasant enough to play.
@sanderev same here.
I’m really excited about the game, but I can’t really say how I feel about all of this until I’ve played it. I was pretty upset about the PLA performance before release, but it never bothered me when I was playing. Hopefully it will turn out similarly here.
Can't wait for all the apologists to blame the Switch, the same system where Xenoblade Chronicles 3 just came out with proper image stabilization/upscaling, proper anti aliasing, a solid 30 fps AND gorgeously detailed huge maps.
...I'm late I think.
@kalosn If it says something, BotW was designed as a Wii U game. I suppose that makes it easier to upgrade.
But it's like people surely primarily think of Twilight Princess as a Wii game.
Yeah, I remember how badly Totem battles chugged playing Gen 7 on an original 3DS. Very ridiculous, but it's a turn-based game. So it didn't hurt that much.
I suppose the thing I missed just a little more was the lack of Miiverse support for the game playing on O3DS.
I must admit, I lost it at the suggestion that this pair of games is having issues with "funding."
I was hoping that this would pull me back to the series after Sword/Shield left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not one to diss a game on graphics alone, but if it seriously affects basic movement and gameplay then this series can remain dead to me.
@VideoGameEnjoyer I've never liked when people blame the switch hardware because it proves again and again that games can look good and keep a consistent frame rate on the system. XC3 like you mentioned is a prime example. Same goes for Super Mario Oddyssey, Splatoon and plenty others.
This is were a switch emulator on PC will shine. Bringing that performance up! Lol. Legality aside. Speaking of, would be neat if Nintendo did something like a switch game pass you could use on PC.
Anybody wanna buy my collector's edition preorder for $400 kidding. This makes me want to cancel the pre-order though. Like somehow Pokemon games have become like games for a movie or tv ahow franchise. Whereas in the past, it was all about the Video games, cards and anime, now it's more about way more media content & less about high quality games? Not sure if other's agree but I feel Gamefreak should let Bandai Namco or another studio develop their games and use unreal engine or something more powerful & they can play a supervisory role on the battle systems & lore. Even their stories are pretty weak & Pokemon games deserve the writer's the shows get.
@Vil agree with your points
Can you belive this and Xenoblade 3 are made on the same hardware? I can't.
'They can't keep getting away with it!' Ridiculous. The Pokemon Company makes how much money a year? And the Switch is significantly more powerful than an Xbox 360, right? So why do these games not only look like ugly, low budget PS2 games, but also run terribly? You would think the graphics were bad because they aiming for 60fps, but they're not even doing that...
I hate the fact that 10's of millions of people continue to dump money in to this inept and talentless company. It's a shame that there aren't more games like Pokemon currently on the market; if there were, maybe there would be some actual competition and TPC wouldn't be so lazy.
Nintendolife is becoming more and more like Digital foundary, "I see a dropped frame! WORST GAME EVER!!" And I absolutely hate that. Let's all just enjoy our games, and keep the frame peeping to the PS5 fanboys from DF.
@sanderev
The article mentions the game has trouble maintaining 30fps not that it occasionally drops frames.
Read through the article and you will see that they had a lot of nice things to say about the game but felt like the technical issues definitely had an impact on their enjoyment.
I’m glad this is finally being addressed. The pokemon games in switch are an unplayable mess due to broken framerate issues.
@sanderev there is a standard that games need to meet in order for them to be enjoyable and comfortable and not cause physical discomfort to the user. If we are talking 120-240 frames or whatever then yeah thats chat for high end pcs and is splitting hairs but anything below 60 is an unfinished, unplayable game. Personally I dont mind a missed frame here or there but if its consistently bad such as running below 60 then its a no go.
@Ironcore Anything below 60? I am perfectly fine with a 30fps game. Especially when it's a turn based rpg like Pokémon.
@Mgalens They played a preview version of the game. Ofcourse it's not finished and there will still be some level of polish.
But even then, Legends Arceus isn't perfect 30fps but is one of the best games on Switch. Framerate literally says nothing about the enjoyment of the game.
And honestly, Pokémon games never were technically the best quality games. For example Gen 1 has more bugs than a Bug Catcher in his PC box.
Also I noticed the Nintendo bashing on this site increases whenever Sony has a slow month of releases. Or when recent Sony releases tank.
This is bad news for GF. Not the type of review the studio would want people to be reading a few weeks before release. Given that Pikachu is richer than Mickey Mouse, you'd have thought they'd have been able to buy their way out of a situation like this?
@Jireland92 were not talking the difference between 30 fps and 60, were talking unloaded textures and dips from 20 to 30 causing stuttering. Persona 5 on the switch runs at 30 stable and it's fine, but there are still some textures that run at like 5 fps and it's weird.
@Ironcore for me that's just an arbitrary number. It honestly doesn't make a difference in non action and fps games. Stability does. I'd rather have 30 fps stable then a game that jumps from 20 to 45 to 60 to 30. And if a game can't but 30 stable I'd rather just not have the game.
@Thenewguy XBC 3 is a good example of an open world game that can run on the switch, but it's virtually empty. Like they did the best they could, but density and complexity are severely limited when you're basically working with a ps3. Like I don't care about 4k and particle effects, there needs to be a hardware upgrade just to have innovations in game design. The switch hit it's limit like the first year.
@hypercoyote You know what I meant - from 2012 to 2019, all but 1 year had a back-to-back AKA annual release.
@Brydontk I'm hoping the trainers still have some indication that you haven't fought them yet. Like, still have the "!" pop up over their head when they see you (or all the time). Easy solution. But, I'm not expecting anything like that. Pokemon games always leave out tons of QOL features they desperately need.
@sanderev Then you are part of the reason why companies think its acceptable to release games in that condition.
@shoeses No, I assumed you meant what you said. But I count out those offshoots and just consider the mainline games. Now maybe they were tied up by the offshoots, but idk. Regardless, I hope they fix the issues quickly.
@BreathingMiit "bad news for GF"
Not quite as much as you'd think. People have complaining (and rightly so) about the graphics and performance of Game Freak's Pokémon games since the 3DS era, and that hasn't stopped each and every one of these things from busting the bank wide open upon release.
@sanderev
if the final game fixes and it can keep a stable framerate then that is great but so far we have to go by what the publishers provide rather than speculation of what the finished product will be especially this close to launch.
i agree with what @Xansies said in that its the stability which is the issue, 30fps is adequate for games which don't require a fast responses but if the game is having trouble maintaining said 30 then it is when it can become an issue
You would think after some years working on the switch they would get this figured out. But to be fair the Switch was the teams first console jump, being exclusively on handhelds previously. However, I think the core issue is the engine they are running. And the fact that they are so time crunched to push this stuff out every year
@DoubleDate You kind of just answered why they don't put more effort into it lol why would they when they still make so much money every year? Minimal effort, maximum profit: the core of capitalism
I'm not a fan of the modern pokemon style. I look at nexomon and think pokemon should be a lot better
@Anti-Matter I'm loving nexomon extinction at the moment
I would never buy a Pokemon game at launch because the company rushes their products or makes too many. I don’t see why NintendoLife or anyone would expect in a couple of weeks performance is going to significantly improve if they are demoing it as-is to the press. Maybe I am too cynical here but imo this is just about getting the worst of the negative reaction out of the way before launch so the reviews will say “sadly, the performance issues while mildly improved are still present” rather than a complete take down.
@ketrac so a world where Gamefreak doesn't make Pokémon games.
...I'm so down.
Even as a kid I thought blind packs and 2 releases of the same game in different colors was some serious BS. And the slogan being basically "YOU NEED ALL OF THESE TO BE THE BEST BUY ALL OF THEM BUY BUY BUY!" was also majorly sleazy.
...I am saying I was a poor kid.
Anyway, they're the rich ones and I barely scrape by 20 something years later so shrug.
@Xansies I’m not saying it isn’t bad, it is, but it’s not something that affects gameplay much. It isn’t like Bayonetta where a steady frame rate is required to play properly, it’s a turn based RPG where you pick things from menu’s. And we won’t know how bad all this is until the game comes out anyway, so all this may not be as bad at launch.
Im so excited for these games. I dont much care for the issues because bad framerates dont kill my immersion unless it takes literal seconds for the character to move or the camera to pan in the direction I want.
However, multiplayer adventuring is something I've been asking for in pokemon since Gen 3. So for good reason, this is going to be my anticipated generation yet. So much so that as long as the new pokemon designs are good and most older pokemon come back, I will be satisfied.
Being a huge Pokémon fan as a child, this somehow rekindles some interest.. but so did Sw/Sh which I ended up buying. I tried to see if mentioned in preview, but unless I missed it somehow - how is the difficulty. As easy as the previous entries in last few instalments?
@ketrac
So you are in favor of a semi open World Pokemon game? Mario Odyssey had good performance due to:
Low amount of characters on screen at once
Smaller semi-open world environments
No Multiplayer
Developed by a team who has made many console games for generations, this is Pokemon Teams third outing.
@emj2010
Pokemon games are made for Children, they are not meant to be difficult in any form. The fact that adults enjoy playing Pokemon games is not ever going to influence the Pokemon company
@LikelySatan it’s what we need, but based on the comments of those who say they’ll buy these things no matter what, it is not what we deserve
@Old_Man_Nintendo There are billions of reasons for why you shouldn’t excuse GF.
Here’s one: GTA5 ran better on PS3 and X360, less powerful hardware than Switch, while performing better in every setting you mention, than any Pokemon game has.
@KingMike Aside for the fact it left a positive impression of the Switch's capabilities when it was released, the fact BoTW is a Wii U game is still astonishing. Its rendering setup is not much different to a typical PS4/XONE game. The game however, did struggle much more on Wii U than on Switch after the updates. It makes me ponder how more impressive Tears of the Kingdom could possibly get.
I get the 3DS/New 3DS comparisons (and Miiverse! I never noticed how useful and fun it would be on a Pokemon game), but I'm talking about much more than a simple CPU overlock and small memory boost. This colorful game could look even prettier with higher fidelity and resolution. That art style is simply outstanding for me.
Perhaps the hands on build is not the same as the full version. I find it hard to believe Nintenfo would publish something that has severe technical problems.
@Narrator1 Actually they've been complaining since gen 3. At the time of Ruby & Sapphire, people were expecting the games to look something like Golden Sun, but what they got instead was something that "looks like it's still on the Game Boy". Nothing really changes with Pokemon and fan reaction
cough cough early build cough cough quit complaining cough cough
@Cia they played an early build, no where near what it looks like now, that's how companies do it. They post trailers and footage of early builds while still working on the game. I guarantee you those trailers were made a long time before they actually released.
@koffing look at comment above this
@MagicMan
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right.
@Grumblevolcano They can't just delay a mainline game, as everything else in the franchise is connected to it: toys, cards, the anime etc. the mainline game has to come out at the right time.
@Piyo lol you're funny
@MagicMan you guys said that in 2019 for sword and shield and nothing changed. No other games look this rough a MONTH BEFORE RELEASE!!!! stop defending game freak's incompetency as a developer
@Savage_Joe Other way around, actually. Looks like a PS2 game, but runs at sub 30fps like a PS3 game. (A lot of the PS2's library was 60fps- I estimate around 2/3.)
Props to the Glacier Mint reference @AlexOlney
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