How long is a console lifecycle? It really depends on the system, but conventional wisdom seems to suggest that it's around five years – although there are exceptions, of course, such as the original Game Boy.
Going by that accepted wisdom, the Switch should be entering the twilight years of its lifespan as it will be five years old in February 2022 – but Nintendo has repeatedly stated that it sees the machine at the mid-point of its commercial existence.
Speaking during the recent Q&A session at Nintendo's Corporate Management Policy Briefing, Nintendo president Shuntaro Furukawa once again stated that the Switch isn't going anywhere at the moment:
It is now the fifth year since the launch of Nintendo Switch, and the total hardware sell-through has exceeded 90 million units. We recognize that the system is at the mid-point of its lifecycle. The launch of Nintendo Switch – OLED Model has also been contributing to continued sales momentum and we are now offering consumers three Nintendo Switch models to match their play styles and lifestyles, as well as a wide range of software. With this, we believe a foundation for growth has been laid that exceeds what we previously considered to be a conventional hardware lifecycle.
With two additional variants on the market, the Switch family is expanding in the same way that Nintendo expanded the DS and 3DS lines, and, if rumours are to be believed, it could add a 'Pro' model to the range at some point in the near future. That would expand the console's lifespan even further, so a 10-year lifecycle isn't all that outlandish.
One thing is clear; with over 90 million units sold since 2017 and demand remaining steady, Nintendo sees little reason to start openly talking about its next hardware platform.
[source nintendo.co.jp]
Comments 160
Didn't Nintendo also say the "NX" wasn't a replacement for the Wii U?
Niiiice, another “Switch Pro is real, guys!” episode
well, were these supposed to be good news? because it sounds to me like "you have to play our games on our subpar console much longer than you may have expected"
The snes will always be close to my heart. However, the switch made right what the wii U should've been.
I've been saying it for years: there will never be a 9th generation of consoles. The 8th generation (Switch/PS4/XboxOne) is eternal. The PS5 and XboxX will be failures, because they have no good exclusive games, they look the same as their predecessors, and they cost a lot more money. There is no need for a 9th gen, just like there's been no need for a new way to play movies since the Blu-ray disc came out in 2006.
@Noid They did also say that the DS wasn’t replacing the Game Boy! Thinks it’s just to protect themselves if their new console isn’t a success.
I hope that means we get better switches later down the line. Its, Its just, Nintendo doesn't need to be like Xbox X and playstation 5 in terms of hardware, And the switch shows that, I just need them to take the switch, and make it better, I don't need a whole other console.
@BlackenedHalo The Switch is ALWAYS going to be subpar compared to PS/Xbox for the simple reason that it's a handheld. Even a Switch Pro won't change that.
I mean why would they talk about new hardware right after releasing a new variant?
Whatever the next console will be, I hope they don‘t drop the switch concept. A few improvements with the joy cons (drift, size), better CPU and GPU and we have a contender for the best console ever made.
@BlackenedHalo Bingo! Furthermore, I read this article as “please understand, there won’t be any Switch Pro in any extent”.
They’ll move on from the Switch when it’s no longer profitable, even it continues into their next-gen console’s life, just like every console before it.
@TheWingedAvenger What the bloody hell are you talking about? PS5 and Xbox Series X/S are selling incredibly well. In fact they are selling far better than previous generation and there’s already exclusives coming in the next few years we are aware of.
That's PR talk. The moment they see the profits lowering on the Switch they're gonna launch another console. I don't think it is farfetched to say that they're already in the early development stages of the Switch's successor.
@TheWingedAvenger you have noticed that you fffff cant get a ps5 xbox whatever its called as they sell out as soon as restocked. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
On a previous thread I read a discussion speculating that it is possible that Nintendo does not implement backwards compatibility on their next gen console. If this is the case then just let the Switch live as long as possible. I have bought too many games for this system already.
The Switch is certainly my favourite of any of the current consoles on the market, I just have more fun with it and whilst I don't see use it's handheld mode too often I'm happy the option is there. I don't need 4K and mediocre RT to have fun with a game but with any successor Nintendo have to make it fully backwards compatible with the Switch
I honestly don't have a problem with Switch having a longer life cycle. I'm actually perfectly fine with the current Switch graphics, so a Switch pro does not seem interesting to me.
However, I think Nintendo should try to bring more AAA Third Parties to the Switch. It's a shame the Switch is missing out games like Red Dead Redemption 2 or Sekiro.
@Anguspuss that's more of semiconductor shortage than anything. No doubt they are selling well but would they be sold out had they had normal stock? Maybe in the first couple months but not almost a year out. Also that guy is clearly trolling or has the dumbest 'hot take'.
As long as we continue to get a fairly regular stream of games we want to play (one big title every 4-8 weeks?) I think 90% of Nintendo fans will be happy to continue with the Switch. I don't think revolutionary graphics really matter with the sort of games Ninty fans like, we just need software support, perhaps made easier this gen with Sony seemingly neglecting the importance of Japanese games and indie titles.
@TheWingedAvenger "never be a 9th generation".
I've got news for ya, we're in the 9th gen. Sales of PS5 and Series S/X are going very well. And while graphically there might not be a massive difference just yet between 8th gen and 9th gen games, we are only 1 year in. Give it time. Also we are getting additional benefits like better load times and more consistant framerates/resolution.
It’s no secret that the Switch entered the fray without any direct competition and unlike the Vita which was over-promoted as a handheld that brought home console titles into the palm of your hand, the Switch is competent enough to make that claim
quite comfortably. Take Borderlands 2 and compare how it runs on both machines for example.
Now we have the likes of Steamdeck on the way, you can bet your bottom dollar Nintendo is working away on their next console but like anything, it needs time and while the marketshare is still pulling in those dollars with Switch, they won’t be hasty and give anything away to cannibalise potential sales.
Sega pulled such a stunt with the 32X with Saturn around the corner and it seriously hurt them.
I just wonder what Nintendo will aim to do next. They are clearly innovators that rely on novel ideas to create their own market niche and it seems they won’t have the luxury of continued dominance in the handheld space for that much longer.
@thiz It's definitely one of the worst console Nintendo put out...
The Joycons are a joke, the absence of a proper D-Pad is a joke, the first model kickstand is a joke, the lite not being able to dock is a joke, the game card slot is unreliable, and worst of all, this is the only console in history to have zero custom hardware. Nintendo just threw in an (old, non gaming oriented SoC) nvidia chip and called it a day. This is a testament to how much faith they had in the project to begin with. I'm pretty sure they tried because they had to, but were preparing for failure, so they tried cheap.
That being said, the Switch library is likely the best of any Nintendo console ever. The best of any console ever in fact. It really is a best of every Nintendo gaming franchises so far, plus many great third party staple games, plus many awesome indy games... It's really good to be a Switch owner.
Should Nintendo finally make a new StarFox and a new F-Zero and I'll have mostly all I ever wanted from, and more, from a gaming console...
So, this is both my most hated console ever (because of the hardware) and my favorite gaming platform ever (because of the games), and that's both frustrating and exhilarating at the same time.
Sounds like the "midpoint" got shifted forth a year.😄 Partly through the ongoing strong demand, partly through the likely component market concerns (even launching OLED now has proven a rough ride, so for all we know, Nintendo may be starting to view the 2023/2024 window I used to assume for Gen 10 as a still remnant risk of an outright PS5 situation). Guess the rumour worshippers will see their "Pro" sometime in 2025 now?🙀😅
@BlackenedHalo we never have to play ANY games on ANY hardware. Shockingly, this isn't even the only hobby out there. And "subpar hardware" says little when Switch remains the most powerful portable console to date (before anyone tries the usual recent counterargument - most powerful portable console, not micro PC 😏) and predictably continues to dwarf its console peers in terms of situational flexibility and actual game access.
@Rpg-lover no matter the ports, Switch has never been what Wii U was. The latter's core concept - dual screen gaming on a home console - is one of the few legacy features Switch didn't inherit.
@Angusspuss @blockfight guys, are you arguing with someone who just listed Switch as "8th gen" with a straight face? Must have been one of the fabled folks speculated to have confused Wii U for a Wii peripheral.😅
Might just be me, but isn't a usual console lifecycle 6-7 years? And I fully expect Nintendo to release a new console after 7 years (end of 2023. probably), which would also be sort of fair to their new OLED customers. Imagine that..
this confirms to me Nintendo doesn't want to go next gen they want to drag out this old weak hardware for as many years as they can
@BlackenedHalo Think you’re stirring the pot, but this is such a bad take, IMO. It doesn’t matter to me how powerful the tech is, as long as the games are good. Nobody could argue that Switch titles are sub-par. The best Switch games are probably still better than the best PS5 games at this stage, and bear comparison with the best of the PS4 library.
I still play games on DS, PSP and 3DS, not to mention 16-bit titles, so maybe I’m atypical, but I’ll always put gameplay over graphics, sound and frame rate. Sure, there are Switch games that could run better, but there are few cases where it actively prevents me enjoying them.
"if rumours are to be believed"... Those rumours have been around since 5 minutes after the switch was released, so you can stop mentioning them.
I believe Nintendo could eventually make iterations of the Switch closer to what we see with smartphone improvements and break from conventional console generations, keeping backwards compatibility until the end of time
Long may it live, console cycles should last as long as possible. As far as I'm concerned the Snes and Megadrive are still alive and kicking:)
Furukawa must have nuts the size of melons to believe he can successfully gaslight 100 million people.
Well, it might be good for the big N to wait, the Switch is a massive success and putting more quality games on it will be good. They'll put out new hardware when the time is right and I have to admit, it doesn't feel like the Switch is at the end of its lifecycle at all, with Nintendo just releasing the Expansion Pack for the NSO, Metroid Prime 4 and Breath of the Wild 2 still on the horizon. I'm good with all that.
Removed - flaming/arguing
It won't be called the switch pro. It's going to be called "super entertainment switch cube U pro 64" you know, probably. 🙄
Works for me, means I don't have to buy new hardware anytime soon. Switch still feels like a new console to me!
See you next year, Switch 2!
Great respect for Miyamoto, but as long as the Nintendo top brass can ground his “ingenuity” when it comes to hardware, motion control, peripherals, and whatever “new” way of gaming he can think of, we would be good.
@chipia
Why want some people not learn, that the Switch is a hybrid and not a handheld.?
There are countless full priced ports yet to be released.
@Duffman92 probably because of the share price drops after everybody realized that there wasn't a pro version in the near future. They want Nintendo to at least mention that there will be a new money-making machine
I do take @TheWingedAvenger's point though. The difference seems to get more and more incremental with each generation.
Ok; 4k IS better than 1080p, 120 fps IS better than 60 fps etc etc, but these are hardly life-changing developments at this point.
Most essential games on the PS5 are available more cheaply at slightly inferior resolution on PS4 already.
The main reason to upgrade to the next generation these days is when the older consoles stop getting supported with the latest games.
@Noid can't remember but it's very possible, they said the same thing with the DS and GBA, they do it to test the waters, if the console has a poor reception they can go back and keep supporting the previous iteration.
When sales start to slow they will kick out another console. That's usually what happens, right?
I'm likely gonna stick to PC games and VR from now on. Will always be interested in what Nintendo do, but won't blindly buy their hardware like in the past.
@thiz I don't see it as a price pb, at all.
They can charge what they want, up to us to decide if the product is worth buying. And considering the game library it offers, the price seems to be "ok" for many people.
I just really don't like what the console is:
I really think they should have put the money upfront and design the best portable console they could, instead of playing it safe and cheap
The Switch is a sh**** console blessed with an incredible game library that will soon be seen as outdated by most people.
It could have been an outstanding hybrid console, with an even more incredible game library, with a 8-10 years of profitable life.
Nintendo have been upgrading Switch hardware very steadily and that’s likely to continue. As far as graphical generations go, I believe a generation is still a generation for Nintendo, so a sizeable and appreciable leap will come with its own branding to signify a critical buy-in. He doesn’t say the Switch will end at that point, their previous graphic suggests the opposite. So a ‘new generation’ or second line of hardware is possible without needing to guess some “mid-point” far-off date for some shift. They can keep the Switch around and also have a new shiny thing with software development going to both. Nintendo’s been there before.
Why would he admit that the Switch is in the twilight of it's life-cycle? This would discourage people from investing in a Switch right before Christmas.
@Jawessome While the Steamdeck is a handheld it's not an actual console but a PC and is more expensive, it will not be in direct competition with the Switch because of that. Just like the Switch is also not in direct competition with Playstation and Xbox.
@chiimaero Why would the library be seen as outdated by anyone soon?
@Kanbei he said “mid-point”. The thing launched in 2017. If anything he’s adding more life to it than what the average person would assume (5 or so years as the write-up says).
I have been playing my Black Wii since the color's debut (and I still have a backlog of games for it), and my White o3DS as well (Persona Q2 why must you be so punishing).
I have faith in Switch's longevity.
@Noid no it wasn't a replacement for the 3ds..it was the wii u replacement
@moodycat @Fudge_Fujiyama what serious issues have the switch had??I haven't had one issue with my launch switch to this day or the joy con issue.only reason I retired my launch day switch is because I got the oled model
@TheWingedAvenger costing more does not stop it from selling out as soon as more stock is there… furthermore the Switch started with a port of Mario kart 8 and breath of the wild.
I also like nintendo as much as the next guy but you should get those rose tinted glasses out of your face. Just because a console has/had not stellar launch line up does not mean it sucks.
Ps4 sold over 100 million and its launch was weak as heck. It did not start with God of War, The last of Us, Horizon, Bloodbourne, Persona 5 (Royal), and in even larger scope monsters like GTA, Red dead and the plethora of Cod’s.
And I have no reason not to believe the same will happen with ps5 just as it had happened with the switch’s animal crossing pushing hard numbers.
@BTB20 I've put it poorly. The Switch will be seen as outdated, not the game library, of course not.
Well, the Switch is already being seen as outdated by so called "core-gamers". But the more people get large 4K TVs, the more they will see the power of the console as a real problem.
And I'm 100% with the guys who say we don't need ultra costly/120fps graphics.
Most people are fine with lower framerates and a nice artistic direction. But at one point, even the best art can't hide an aggressive upscale.
The Switch could have been designed with the "new" TV standard in mind, rather than "the old". It should, considering that's partly what shortened the Wii lifespan.
At least there is still hope for a "Super Dock" that could fix the current Switch technical limitations when docked, so I still hope we'll see it happen
@chiimaero lol considering it outsold xbox one in 4 years and it's closing in a 100 million consoles cause its at 92 million consoles sold up to date.id say the xbox one is crap
@moodycat what he’s saying is that the market will determine the end of life of the Switch, not their introduction of new generation hardware, as it’s tended to go before. This is because with 100M units sold, they can keep production and software going with the certainty of good profit, even if say 35-40% of that install base sticks with the system in the short term of new hardware introduction
The Game Boy Advance was here to stay when the DS launched. The 3DS was here to stay when the switch launched. They're just trying not to annoy their existing user base, same as always. Sales will drop off in a few years and then we'll start to see the shiny new toy Nintendo have been working on since 2017.
Nintendo just needs to stick with the Switch branding and release new consoles that are backwards compatible. 2, 3, 4 etc. They have found their niche in the market and it's a sustainable one. Hybrid + motion controls is not something either PlayStation or Xbox will be aiming for at any point in the future.
@TheWingedAvenger
I've hardly touched my switch for a year since I bought Xbox series S. So many great games on the Xbox especially with Game Pass Ultimate.
The one Switch game I am really looking forward to , Advance Wars has been delayed until next year. Go back now and then to Switch to play Project Diva, Tiny Metal and Groove Coaster.
@Darkyoshi98 the list is long:
No deal breaker here, but still hugely unusual from Nintendo
It will be unprecedented to take the same Switch hardware five further years; Oled or LCD. They will launch another model in/by 2023 for sure.
@Darkyoshi98 lol both are crap
And, you know, one can learn to love crap
Again, I really love my Switch, as a gaming platform, just not the device (even if I must admit I love the OLED a bit more)
Likewise, I love my PS5 as a device, just not (yet) as a gaming platform (bought it day-1, still waiting for a true "next-gen" game...)
@JohnnyC they’re going to give the Switch a strong finish, because the software sales have been higher across a broader range of their releases than ever before, ahead of GBA and 3DS.
@nhSnork you know what I meant so please stop being a
It would be a far riskier move for Nintendo to try to introduce a brand new console in the midst of a semiconductor shortsge as opposed to another revision to extend the Switch's lifecycle. I certainly don't mind staying behind with technology, especially considering there is no comfortable alternative (the Steam Deck is pretty pricy and only runs digitally, not to mention only supports singleplayer locally).
@NinChocolate Hope so. The DS and Wii were the best-selling consoles prior to the Switch and they both fizzled out badly in terms of software near the end of their lifespans. Different situation though as Nintendo was supporting two consoles back then.
@nhSnork I wasn't paying that much attention to that aspect of the argument they were making. If they hadn't mentioned it I'm not sure I would have known what gen we are currently in to be honest.
@BlackenedHalo get your human self to write comments instead, and I just might. But I suspect neither of us are actually fooling themselves about the odds here.
That is perfectly fine with me as long as we do actually get a Nintendo Switch Pro model. I don't really want to be using the same technology 5 years from now while the Xbox Series X and PS5 are in their 5th or 6th year of release. Though by that time, I will probably be playing on either Xbox Series X or PS5 regardless.
Personally, being someone who already owns a PC (with Steam), a SNES Classic Mini, and an Oculus Quest 2, I just don't see anything particularly compelling about the Switch that I can't already get from those other devices, and ultimately better in most ways.
Nintendo's first party titles and established characters/brands/franchises really are doing a lot of heavy lifting, it seems. And, for me personally, they really aren't enough to justify a Switch purchase. I can't even recall the last time I was genuinely excited about a Nintendo game released in the last decade or so.
I kinda feel sorry for people who went out and bought a Switch for like $300 and probably never even thought to try something like the Quest 2--they have no idea how far gaming has progressed beyond what the Switch offers. The Switch is just a largely bog-standard handheld/console hybrid experience at this point imo, there's nothing truly fresh or exciting about it, whereas the Oculus Quest 2 is paradigm shifting and often still feels as magical to play as experiencing Mario 64 on N64 was for the first time.
If Switch is here for a while, hopefully part of that still includes a proper Switch Pro or Switch 2, maybe even some kind of upgraded VR implementation like Labo VR but much better realised, or just something more exciting that simply the current machine lasting for another five years at least.
I guess we'll see. . . .
@chipia I think that’s a plus, not a minus
@impurekind Lmao don’t go feeling sorry for me, my $300 was well spent and has brought me over 700 hours of fun
@impurekind Why would you need to feel sorry for anyone? And maybe they do know what's beyond the Switch in terms of options, but chose the Switch for various other reasons. I'm one of those who spent the $300 and I don't regret it at all.
Completely agree. I could see a 12 year life cycle
@impurekind
Nice to see that we have VR stans here.
@Noid yeah they always say that the new system will not be a replacement, and in the case of the Wii U it was damage control in case the Switch ended up failing (with the 3DS and a proposed successor being a backup)
I can't say when their next console will be, but it's been such a success I imagine it'll be a couple more years at least
Good stuff. The Hardware concept and design is pretty much perfect for Nintendo, they just need to iterate on it. A Switch sequel in 2023 with BC, more power and hopefully more durable controllers is what I’d expect.
@Snaplocket i read that exact same comment so many times in 2018
Switch Advance coming in March 2023
What if the Switch became an Evergreen Platform?
@chiimaero i’m glad I’m not a gearhead because I absolutely love my Switch and it’s the first console to top SNES for me, and I have no complaints about the performance or the chips because ignorance is bliss
@impurekind
We have a PC. We are considering Oculus Quest 2.
But neither would replace our Nintendo Switch.
We got the Switch for the games it has.
Great Nintendo IP.
And great single-screen multi-player fun!
We keep choosing Nintendo over other systems. We've had the GameCube, Wii, Wii U, Switch, Gameboy, DS, 2Ds.
@TheWingedAvenger Considering the PS5 is doing better then the PS4 was at this stage in live and is one of the most in demand consoles in history its clear this comment is bull. Returnal, R&C and Demons Souls are all PS5 exclusives and have sold well and got critical acclaim and then of course you have Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine what is just instant money for Sony.
On Xbox front you have Gamepass. Forza Horizon 5 released today and while its great on Xbox One its next level on Series S/X and one of the best looking games out there. In fact Series S is just great value for money overall and holds its own very well next to the bigger boys.
It's getting old now.
I have no use for a new system until my backlog is complete. That's "only" like 20 more games, not counting the game collections.
@NintendoDad Quest 2 is OK. I like to play Moss and Trover. The first person games get me sick unless I do the room scale. Due to vr videos I now have an idea as to the size of some actesses. I'm certain when Nintendo does vr it will be more fun. Now it's more like a baby sitter for my 5 year old.
@BlackenedHalo The PS5 is technically subpar to my gaming PC, so what's your point? Anyone who equates a video game systems technical specs to the amount of fun that can be had with said system has completely missed the point to gaming in the first place.
There's 1 thing to keep in mind with the life cycle of the switch and that is for the last 2 years of its life cycle will overlap with the first 2 years of nintendos next console.
So don't expect the switch's replacement to be so far away. My best prediction would be the first half of 2023.
I have far too many games on Switch.. it will be a heartbreak when none of them work on the next Nintendo console because it only allows holographic games controlled by eyeball movement.
@TheWingedAvenger
4k is superior to Blu-ray! Human eye can see up to 16k.
Movies and Shows were shot on film up to 70mm which roughly equals 8k.
Nintendo's got six or seven brand new games for Switch next year including Pokemon, Splatoon, and Kirby, and the console is hitting 100 million too. Launching a new console entirely would be silly, and combined with hardware shortages, they have every reason to focus on Switch's software. I remember the OLED announcement causing sales to slow down, so announcing a new console while their current one is doing well would gut their numbers.
I understand the argument for more power, but 90% of the time devs do not use said power to create game experiences that couldn't have been made on weaker hardware. They just make the games look better, and most AAA titles get trounced by the best of the N64 in terms of fun factor.
@Anguspuss
To be fair, it's just scalpers and bots that get them before actual people.
@Snaplocket i just remember when the switch was announced they said they were going to push it for 10 years, and within 18 months everybody was anticipating and trying to Predict the next console
@Zag_Man yet there are way less games coming out than when the company was split...
Yes hold back until your two or three generations behind.
Yes hold back until your 2-3 generations behind.
@TheWingedAvenger you keep saying the same thing over and over again. Completely ignoring the fact that both Sony and MS are reporting record sales! You do know its OK for them to do well and for the switch to keep selling. And the whole no good exclusives makes me laugh, Returnal and R&C are both superb. And playing Forza H5 this morning on my series X, you wouldn't believe how good that game looks.
GOOD! I want Nintendo Switch to be out as long as possible! I Love my Nintendo Switch; in fact, it's the best since the Super Nintendo/Nintendo 64 Days! We don't want another Console/Handheld in a very long time! Just keep updating the Nintendo Switch like Apple does with iPhone!
@Uncensored
Yeah. I was hoping Nintendo would get more serious with VR on the Switch.
I would love to play Mario Kart VR at home!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLwqsJsEnRs
But OQ2 is the only thing my kids seem to want for Xmas. Mostly for the "exercise" games, like Beat Saber.
I figure . . . it's one of those things. I can wait until everything is perfect before buying it, but by then, my kids will be all grown up.
I've never regretted getting any of our Nintendo consoles (GC, Wii, Wii U, Switch, DS, 2DS), my kids and us parents have had a lot of fun playing the games. If I had waited for the Switch Pro, we would have missed all that game time together!
@6thHorizon Anything past 4K and 60fps is pretty much indistinguishable to the eyesight of most human beings.
Indeed, over these last few generations we've seen the graphical leap becoming less and less noticeable. I'd argue the last significant visual leap was between the N64/PS1/Saturn era to the Gamecube/Dreamcast/XBox/PS2 era. Everything else since has been more of a gradual improvement.
Thank god for PC gaming.
@dudujencarelli The difference in 4K becomes noticeable at the correct view distance. FPS past 60 retrains the eye and ones perception. Once you have seen 120 and 240 FPS, going back to 30 or 60 is starkly noticeable.
@TheWingedAvenger the series x and one were the same prices at their launches, not sure about Sony. J/s 🤷♂️
@chipia [Steamdeck has entered the chat]
Everyone saw this coming, the Switch still feels fresh and new. From the beginning it was obvious that this system was going for the 10 year lifecycle just like DS & 3DS, but if it keeps doing this superbly well by the time it reaches the 10 year mark, it just might get extended further than that. There is even a chance that there might not even be any reason to ever replace this console, there is a possibility this might be the perfect Nintendo console and will just continue to get future upgrades and improvements instead, the OLED model is proof of that being a possibility.
@WallyWest
yeah ps5 definitely seems to be doing well expecially considering the chip shortage, i imagine its why it feels near impossible to find.
@TheWingedAvenger
mentioning the visuals "look the same" feels like its overlooking what improvements the consoles did bring, having an SSD alone makes a huge difference to load times, even with backwards compatible games.
Personally im hoping for some kind of upgraded switch model in the future (hopefully post chip shortage) since i feel like the concept is sound however it does feel like even some exclusive games are running into some trouble (SMTV for example can have trouble maintaining 30fps) while steam deck is a thing i do feel like there is a middle ground between handheld and a portable PC.
really though im happy that the switch concept at the very least will be around for a while.
@Chibi_Manny
+1
As long as new games keep coming out, there will still be a reason to keep keep playing!
If Nintendo releases a new Mario Kart next year, it will fuel the Switch's life span for another 3 years. Next console will come out on 2024.
Great. The Switch is one of my favourite consoles, so I'm glad that it's going to be supported for a long time.
I’m in no rush and I’m reminded to pity those that live inside their games.
I’m just about at the point of retiring my switch for good. Besides Mario party which my Wife loves, I don’t find myself playing Nintendo exclusives.
I have a few, Donkey Kong, Mario Tennis, Super smash Bros, etc… I’ve played them a little bit, but ultimately find then a little shallow.
I like adult games with more of a plot line. It draws me in more. That’s what I find myself playing on the switch.
With the steam deck coming out… I’ll get those games in the portable mode I want and can enjoy them at much better performance.
I also don’t want to risk losing them when the new Nintendo Hardware comes out.
@dudujencarelli Clearly someone who hasn't seen 4K or 120fps gaming, when i got my 4K screen the jump was pretty noticeable and its can be noticeable playing a 4K game and then going back to a 1080p one. I don't have a 120hz screen so 120fps is a no no for me but my mate does and when i played Doom Eternal round his at 120fps the difference was huge and even jarring, when i went back to my Doom Eternal at 60fps it felt kinda boring haha.
@WallyWest I've seen 4K plenty of times, and you should read again what I wrote above. I said anything PAST 4K.
4K is certainly a visual leap over 1080p and I never stated otherwise - but there's really nowhere else to go. If there's any difference between 4K and 8K, it'll only be barely noticed by people with perfect 20/20 eyesight. There comes a point where any visual improvements move past human limitations.
As for FPS, 60 already feels fluid and natural. 120 and beyond run the risk of making moving images look fake and unreal. Case in point, we're so used to 24fps cinema that the minute someone tried going for the 48fps experiment on The Hobbit, the result was a very plastic-looking soap opera.
@impurekind
You ‘feel sorry’ for people who paid £300 for something and are having a great time with it and using it lots, rather than something almost completely different that they may not have had any interest in whatsoever?
Ohhhhh…..kaaaaaaayyyy
@Zag_Man
>The focused development has led to some of the very best games ever from Nintendo.
W-where do you get that from? I mean there are certainly some highlights in Switch library like Odyssey, Xenoblade 2, Smash Bros and BotW (though it was more of a Wii U game quickly ported to Switch, but anyway), but other than that the rest of their output in current generation is pretty average by Nintendo standards.
@dudujencarelli 60fps doesn't feel all that fluid. Try playing a first person shooter on a 120hz monitor then go back to a 60hz one. The difference is like night and day.
@GannonBanned Got you, but even you will start to see the Switch limitations as flaws once you get a brand new super large 4K/8K TV. And this does not mean Nintendo should have went the MS/Sony road with a super powerfull and power hungry system. A solution that "just" gives us "simple" graphics with a nice IQ would have been more than enough. And this was a viable option back in 2017.
@HedgehogEngine Indeed, the initial decision to go cheap and use an outdated SoC could have been the right decision... if the Switch was meant to fail. Now, it can only be seen as THE decision that will shorten its lifespan.
Now, as I said above, I don't think they should have done smth radically different, just more "ambitious". With more R&D money, they could have designed a more modern SoC, better suited for a portable gaming system, and it could have been amazing. It still can be great if the USB-C port is fast enough and if Nintendo is willing to offer a "Super dock" (with discrete GPU and dedicated VRAM, letting the X1 GPU unused, meaning the CPU could be clocked @2.0Ghz. That would be 3 cores @2.0Ghz and 1 core @1.0Ghz and mostly all the bandwidth dedicated to game logic). Sure this would mean a new profile to deal with for the devs. But it would also mean impeccable IQ when using the Switch on the big screen.
Last note: seeing how large and heavy and power hungry the Steam deck is, I'm really not sure the industry could provide a true generational leap over the Switch before 3 to 4 years anyway... (with same form factor).
Really, the Switch SoC was not terrible, just not cutting edge and not optimized for gaming... Using 16nm process (10nm was available but too expensive) and with a customized GPU and memory bus it should have been 50% (handheld) to 100% (docked) more powerful...
@TheWingedAvenger I hear what your saying... But I don't think they will be failures... ( Compared to previous gen maybe yes) but it looks more and more like the future is I phone style progressive refreshes.
I'm fairly certain we won't see a 10 year lifecycle, or at least it won't be 10 years till we see the next generation. Switch could probably continue in largely the same way that PS3 carries into PS4 and PS4 into PS5. We haven't really seen that before with Nintendo consoles as support always seems to fall of a cliff once the next hardware iteration is out.
The Switch concept is excellent but the biggest issue will always be the lack of power in the hardware. As this gen continues this will only become more evident and may lead to devs not putting the time and resources into bringing newer games to Switch as it will become too difficult.
I think we'll probably see the next mainline console in 2-3 years time, so sometime in 2024.
That's fine with me, still love my switch.
It's 2013 forever and ever here in Nintendoland!
Though he says "foundation for growth", so it sounds like iterative Switch X successor. Y'know. A third pillar.
Midpoint makes sense. There is a lot of room for making games tailored to the switch and for ports so it isn’t like the library will dry up anytime soon. All I need is for the successor to be BC because I will likely still be hacking away at the switch backlog.
@Nic-Noc20th-C @blockfight @FragRed @Anguspuss @6thHorizion
The main reason the PS5 has even sold ten million units is that it's the successor to a successful console. PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 were all good, so people naturally think the PS5 will be good too. They'll have to think again, though.
You guys believe the PS5 and XboxX will eventually get great games, but that isn't going to happen because it costs far too much to produce the quadruple-A games that the public is expecting. Just look at Cyberpunk 2077. It takes forever to make one great PS5 game. Developers will produce games for the Switch instead, because it's cost-effective and corporations are in it for the money.
Nintendo keeps repeating what I'm saying, because it's the only company that realizes what's happening. Satoru Iwata said that the industry had reached peak graphics, and that was during the Wii U era! Now the company's new president is saying that the Switch is going to stay for many years to come. They know the competition is going to fail.
This won't be the first time that a new console generation gets cut short in its infancy. In 1982, when the Atari 2600 was five years old, Coleco and Atari attempted to launch the next console generation. The Colecovision and the Atari 5200 had far better graphics and sound than the Atari 2600. They offered arcade-quality games that blew the previous gen out of the water. That era was cut short in 1984. The games were excellent, but the industry failed because of the flood of bad games that were released on the Atari 2600 (especially two that were made by Atari themselves) and also because people couldn't grasp the notion that they should buy a new console when the one they had worked fine.
My point is that if the producer of a next-gen console fails to convince the general public that there's a good reason to buy the console, the system and the generation itself will probably fail. Sony and Microsoft are giving people no reason to buy their systems, and they're also giving developers little reason not to focus on the Switch.
@Spider-Kev
Movies were shot in 8K because they were shown on cinema screens which are dozens of times bigger than the biggest TV screen. There's no good reason to have 4K in gaming.
@Serialsid
Sony and MS are having great sales just like Atari and Coleco had great sales when they first launched the Atari 5200 and the Colecovision. They both failed.
Called it. Anyone here thinking something as successful as the Switch would go away next year was delusional. Midlife confirmed
@Jawessome The Steamdeck is not even on Nintendo’s radar. Extremely short stock due to them being careful due to selling at a loss, very limited way to even obtain it that you can’t even get it at major retailers, wait times to get one is gonna turn off people immediately, their cheapest model is a higher price barrier then Switch’s most expensive model, most people rather just play Steam games on a stronger laptop instead etc. Their LTD won’t even beat the OLED model realistically speaking.
@TheWingedAvenger the ps5 already has great games (returnal,deathloop,R&C, demon souls). Sony have stated they have 25 games in development, nearly half being new ip! And the dualsense makes the new games that are cross gen so much better(kena being one of them)! And xbox has 24 studios with more likely to be bought in the next few years, they have lots and lots of games coming, they need them for gamepass!. Your living in dreamland if you think 3rd party developers are going to ignore those platforms and games that can launch on PC to make games for old switch hardware!
I'll bet you here and now that the ps5 will outsell the ps4, and the series consoles will be MS's best selling consoles.
In a couple of years 3rd party developers are going to start making next gen only games! Lots of them. You better get used to playing cloud games when that happens. Lucky that Nintendo have such amazing 1st party to fall back on.
I don't think you understand the massive leap these new machines are, the games they will be able to create. They are just scratching the surface.
9th gen is here and now, and it's going to be great. You keep your head in the sand believing your beloved Nintendo is the pinnacle of games.
I'll be over here playing great games on all three platforms.
@TheWingedAvenger I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. The PS5 is has been selling incredibly well (and I'm sure the XSX is doing fine too), and the games absolutely don't "look the same". The games that are exclusive look far better than what could have been done on the previous gen hardware, and even for the cross-platform games that don't "look" that much better, the ability for these games to run at 60fps now is a HUGE improvement over previous gens.
@Noid They also said that the DS was a seperate system line and wouldn't replace the Gameboy family.
@electrolite77 Yup, because I expect a whole lot of those people think the Switch is actually offering them some kind of height of gaming, when it's not even close. Other than the fact you can only really play the Nintendo first party exclusives on it, which I don't actually rate as highly as I once did, and it's got that handheld/console hybrid gimmick, it's not doing anything special at all for the most part imo. In fact, most of what it's doing is a generation or so behind the competition in many ways. And, when it comes to VR, it's almost like comparing an Atari ST game to an N64 game. So, yeah, I kinda do.
“Going by that accepted wisdom, the Switch should be entering the twilight years of its lifespan as it will be five years old in February 2022”
The Switch first released on the 3rd of March 2017. So it won’t be 5 in February.
The Switch Pro? I guess we're at this point that, after running the rumour for 2 years, it's too embarrassing to admit being so gullible. So let's just keep the fantasy alive!
Good. I wouldn't mind another 4 years of switch
@chiimaero number of times i have walked by a house in the uk at least, with a laughable oversized tv in there living room. Most people haven't got the room to make anything 4k maybe but certainly 8k an above make a difference. I know there will be few out there with apparent magical eyes who will say different. But most uk homes a pretty small and 8k and above are getting to wall sized screens to make it really worthwhile.
The Switch sales are down a lot compared to last year, it's not halfway. But knowing Nintendo, they will release a Switch 2 too late.
@impurekind
Hahaha. Another genuinely amusing post, I would take the time to explain why but I strongly suspect it would go sailing merrily over your head so it’s not worth my effort. Thanks for that though.
@dudujencarelli
I generally agree about the impact of improved visuals not being what it was during earlier generational transitions. Counter point to that is so far Series X and PS5 (I have both) actually feel like more of a leap from XB1/PS4 than those systems did from 360/PS3.
I am super happy with my Xbox Series X. I was lucky to snatch one up a year ago.
It´s a beast of a console and the best part is that it´s fully backwards compatible and can play all games from XBOX, XBOX360 and XBox One.
The whole console lifecycle is an outdated concept. It´s much more efficient to keep the same OS going forward and iterate/improve on that.
I hope Nintendo does the same with the Switch, in that the next console keeps the same OS underneath, if it ends up being a traditional home console (though I would be shocked if they would go back to that after the huge success of the Switch hybrid concept).
What could be an option is that the next console will be a more poweful home console, but with a docking port for the Switch to turn it into a supercharged Switch console.
Something that has been rumored from the beginning as a solution to offer 4K docked gaming.
@TheWingedAvenger I didn’t know you were talking about Nintendo Switch. Yeah i agree that the Switch is garbage and doesn’t have any interesting games unless you likes Nintendo franchises.
@TheWingedAvenger which movies hardly any films are shot in 8k. and if you have massive tv you easily notice 4k gaming
... "mid-point", they say ... LOL!
@Jawessome I wonder what will happen once the Steam Deck launches. After all it's coming in a month.
@Jam78 Sure. But sub 900p can get very ugly even on moderately large 4K TVs. And 55" sizes are more and more common.
@HedgehogEngine Not all A57 are equals, and I think I've read somewhere that the X1 implementation is very solid. Same is true for the X1 Maxwell which has some features of Pascal. The real bummer was the use of the old 20nm process. The use of 16nm alone would have granted at least +50% power in portable mode and +100% in docked mode.
Regarding the Steam Deck, I think Nintendo has to play by the same rules as every one else. So whatever architecture they could/will use has to be smth "compatible". The era of truly custom silicon for console vendor is long gone.
What makes the M1 so efficient is mostly related to memory architecture (super large caches AND "on package" RAM) not related to it being ARM or whatever ISA.
And last point before we can move on... being a gaming device, they should have used a doubled memory bus. Use half of it in portable mode to save battery, all of it in docked mode to alleviate a bit of the GPU bandwidth starvation.
Before it launched, my dream Switch SoC was smth like
I still love A LOT what my Switch has to offer... let's go home and play another session of Metroid Dread
Most like Nintendo aren't going to be honest if they are going to release a new hardware why would they do that in the firs place. The Switch Hybrid Console is a selling point onthego and Docked play the same game no stopping or restarting but pause the game and keep on gaming. That's what the Switch can do something the xbox/psx can't do when you disconnect them from power no matter how powerful they are. The next coming is going to be if not a 1080p portable screen is ability to do 4K/DLSS to improve on graphics along with a GPU/CPU and storage upgrade and hopefully more room to add sd cards to expand storage from the one slot option. I like to add more then because 1tb isn't enough they should have 4 slots of where one can put 1tb or 2tb cards giving more freedom to loads lots of games onto the Switch.
@TheWingedAvenger hate to say it, but if any of the 9th gen consoles fail it will be the Series X/S. Considering that Xbox games also come to PC that is really stiff competition if someone has a gaming PC. The PS5, while a tough sell, has Returnal, which the Switch would never be able to run and the Xbox doesn't have the controller features to really make use of the game.
The only thing Xbox has going for it is Game Pass, which I can see them leaving the console business after the Series X/S because you can also access Game Pass on a phone. PlayStation only really has their exclusives going for them, and the only reason I bought the Switch was so I could play major games like DOOM 2016 on the go. If Sony had learned from their failures with the PS Vita and made something that could rival the Switch I'd of probably bought it instead. That is nothing against Nintendo or their games, it's just that I like to try to keep everything in one place. Right now we are entering the era of crossplay, which that makes things way easier, but since Nintendo is still holding out it means I'm buying games twice over if I want to play with friends that own a Switch. If I like a game a lot I don't mind buying it multiple times, but if I have to buy the game again just to be able to play with other people then I'll probably gravitate towards the system where I can play with others to begin with (which, right now, greatest common denominator for me is PS5).
@Morph the new games will come via the cloud... and tbh I'd just play them on my PS5 at that point. The whole point of the Switch I that you can play it ANYWHERE, and having the games delivered via the cloud kills that notion.
@dudujencarelli I've played games at 60fps that movies running at 24fps seem slow as hell.
Also, when playing action/FPS games at 120fps you get more information faster, which typically leads to faster and better reactions.
@Aiodensghost
Returnal can't be ported to the Switch with the same quality graphics, but it could be ported with a downgrade. Imagine if there were a console more powerful than the PS5 and that had a version of Returnal that was superior to the PS5 version. Would that make the PS5 version any less good? The same applies to the Switch versions of Playstation/Xbox games.
I think the Switch ports of PS4 games are great, and it's a good trade-off to have only the Switch as my current-gen console. I get all the Nintendo exclusives (which are also 75% of the best games in existence) and I also get most of the best Playstation/Xbox games, such as The Witcher III, Divinity Original Sin II, Dragon Quest XI, Diablo III and Dragon's Dogma.
And let's be real: Returnal is a great game but it's anonymous. It has very little originality. The most original games are Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. Sony and Microsoft game designers dream of having even one finger's worth of Shigeru Miyamoto's talent.
@HedgehogEngine No no, the A57/A72 diff is not huge at all. A72 is a update of A57 and most perf. gains came from the 16nm node (https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/arm-cortex-a72-architecture,4424.html)
NVidia not designing something custom has nothing to do with the WiiU sales, but with Nintendo not wanting to pay for a custom design (likely because of WiiU sales ). Weirdly enough, the WiiU silicon was very custom and very costly for BigN.
Now, regarding your expectations for the next Switch. Let's put it this way: you want same or better perfs than Steam Deck, on the same or worse node, in a much smaller form factor. It won't happen. And even that would be a quite modest update over the current Switch in term of graphical power (more or less a PS4). Not a true generational update.
I like the general idea of your specs though:
I just don't see it happen before 3nm or better is cheap. So, maybe 2025?
Going hybrid was a very nice move for Nintendo, but given how slow the silicon industry now is, it also means much longer life cycles. When Nintendo says the Switch will have a longer life than most consoles, I believe them. Not because of their words, but because the tech won't allow them to design a true successor to the Switch before at least 3-4 (5?) more years. And it will likely be even worse for the Switch 3
And this fact makes the standard X1 choice even more frustrating, given how long we'll have to stick with it. They better go all-in for the Switch 2
@HedgehogEngine yeah, it's impossible to know what Nintendo will do. At times they seem to take very good and wise decisions (GC) but they are also capable to mess everything up (WiiU).
Switch 2 will have the luxury to be the followup of of a very successful platform, so its R&D budget should be quite large, so we can expect the better
I just don't expect a true generational leap unless it arrives circa 2025, which, as you say, may be too late.
But, again, maybe not. Given how complex the current situation is (shortages, new nodes arriving slower and slower, more and more "digital only", increasing dev costs...) maybe there will still be a place for a "modest" gaming platform. One with low priced games you can easily buy & resell.
And what is true for Nintendo is true for Sony... I don't expect the PS6 before 2028. 2030 possibly (unless they want easy money with small perfs increases, which, maybe the market won't accept). Not counting XBox here as they're already competing in a very different way.
In short, wait&see
@TheWingedAvenger Mario and Pokémon have become stagnant. There is a reason I only stick with the original Nintendo DS games and lower for them.
DOOM Eternal is nauseating to play on the Switch after it was decided to ditch motion blur. Darksiders 3 has pop-in texture issues combined with the fact that the game can barely hold the targeted 30fps in the second half of the game.
Alien: Isolation's definitive console edition is on Switch, but that is because you get all the DLC and there is no screen tearing, at the trade off of input lag if you are playing docked.
Docking the Switch doesn't really help things either, as docking only really feeds more power to an underclocked system.
Top that off with the fact that I waited 19 years to get another Metroid and it becomes frustrating. I don't give a damn about Mario, Zelda or Pokémon anymore. The main thing that brings me to Nintendo is Metroid. And considering I started gaming on the PS2 it would take Nintendo getting something like Bayonetta 3 really soon to keep me from playing the next God Of War or Horizon game when they launch. It's also rather disappointing that the Switch doesn't have at least the other 2 games in the Dark Souls Trilogy or hell even Bloodborne.
The only reason I have a Switch at this point is because it's the only portable on the market that has the possibility of getting certain games. If Sony was still making portables I'd probably ditch Nintendo as a whole, but they aren't. So I'm gonna leave you to your ignorance. I'm gonna continue to play games on Nintendo, PlayStation and PC.
@Aiodensghost
The fact that you started gaming on the PS2 explains why you only care about pixels at the expense of fun. Anyone who plays a Nintendo console gets used to that high standard of enjoyment and has difficulty switching to a competitor. Personality matters in videogames, and Sony has very little of it.
All Sony has is third-person action games with zero personality, i.e. a generic warrior killing everyone. Nintendo Switch has the best 3D platformer of all time (Super Mario Odyssey), the best action RPG of all time (Breath of the Wild), the best turn-based RPG of all time (Dragon Quest XI), the best strategy RPG of all time (Fire Emblem: Three Houses), the best world-building game of all time (Dragon Quest Builders 2) and the best Souls-like of all time (Ashen). It also has a lot of great third-person action games such as Astral Chain and Luigi's Mansion 3, and they're better than the ones on Playstation/Xbox because they have personality, not just gameplay.
Nintendo is like fine Italian wine - plebeians don't like it but those of us who have acquired the taste for it are happy to enjoy it while smugly looking down on the unfortunates who consume the ordinary stuff.
@TheWingedAvenger I still game on the PS2 as well. I pursue GAMES, and will always pursue those.
Enjoy staying in the dark, I'm gonna continue on Nintendo, PlayStation and PC.
Nintendo handhelds always lasted way longer than the home console. Switch is my go to 2D RPG machine.
Uhuh. More overpriced cloud collections and laggy online, please Nintendo.
@BlackenedHalo Sub-par compared to what? Nintendo has had weaker consoles than the competition nearly every generation. The competition is always weaker than PC. You want to know what will solve the problem? Just get all three market consoles and build a PC. That’s what I did. Play what you want where you want.
@faint Just get all three market consoles and build a PC. That’s what I did. Play what you want where you want.
What a Farce of hot air. You can't play anywhere unplug that PC and it's dead-laptop alternative but that comes with luggage weight to game. So not sure what console era you came from but it's not of reality console.
Perfectly fine by me. A Switch successor is very unlikely before 2025 anyway (or maybe earliest holiday 2024). I'm very happy to be playing the Switch for another 3-5 years.
Still waiting on so many games: Prime remasters, Prime 4, pikmin 4, a 2d Mario, a DK game, Fzero, Star Fox, all the games announced for this year, another ring fit, a zelda maker, a new 2d zelda, hell maybe even another 3d mario, another pokemon or two, and a lot more, not to mention continued 3rd party support and great indies.
They just need to keep adding to Switch Online (specifically GB and GBA as well as getting those N64 and Genesis games out), release another Switch model in a couple years, and keep the great games coming.
Then when Switch successor finally comes out it should just be a fully backward compatible Switch 2 (i mean that part is super obvious), with like one new big feature to stay with Nintendo's mantra of always adding new hardware features - maybe a way to do VR would seem to be the most obvious and the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. So somewhere between 2025 and 2027 give me a Switch 2 that just continues everything about the Switch but impoved and throw in som new feature as well.
@Arawn93 agree ok Steamdeck. It will certainly sell ok, but it isnt remotely a competitor to Switch. It's a giant clunky non-portable handheld, in a market in which most of the people are incredibly concerned about the highest end graphics which it can never have. It will certainly have its niche in the market but it's not going to be a mass product. It's almost like Valve looked at the switch and said well that's really cool and then made their own version but made all the wrong choices lol. Expensive, giant and poor battery life so not really portable, under powered in a market focused on power. Most PC gamers are gonna prefer a gaming laptop over a steamdeck.
@TheWingedAvenger You realize they’re already a commercial success? People want powerful hardware, the gpu market and the PS5 and Series X success are the proof of that. Gaming has changed and merged into the kind of evolution we’d see on PC hardware, and that’s no surprise, as the new systems are even using its architecture.
Fleshlight attachment CONFIRMED.
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