Recent releases, and the reactions to those releases, point to The Pokémon Company facing an interesting challenge at it celebrates its 25th Anniversary. On the one hand the franchise is continually trying to grow and attract new fans of various ages; on the other there are Pokémon players that are long-term fans and have expectations around the evolution and progression of the IP.
Some of the criticisms in recent years have been fair, we'd suggest, especially with accusations that the games haven't shown enough improvement in terms of presentation and mechanics - especially considering the size of the IP and resources at the company's disposal. Yet arguably some areas of criticism are tough to resolve, as the franchise tries to balance its approach to old and new fans.
That topic was the focus of an Axios piece that included some quotes from The Pokémon Company's director of consumer marketing, J.C. Smith. It mentions 'Dexit', in which fans were frustrated that a series tradition ended with Sword & Shield having an incomplete Pokédex; though sales were still strong, the atmosphere online in particular was rather intense. Smith addressed the clash between fan wishes and what the development and creative teams want to do with the franchise.
But there's also a vision for what the creators want to provide, and it's [a matter of] finding that delicate balance throughout.
We have a group of creators and professionals working at the Pokémon Company that have been through a lot — seen, heard [a lot]. They have thicker skin than many people do because they’ve heard it.
Smith goes on to say "we hear it" on the topic of fans seeking more 'sophisticated' and 'grown-up' entries in the series, but states that "we try to focus on making the core accessible to everyone".
Pokémon Brilliant Diamond And Shining Pearl are next up on 19th November, but despite The Pokémon Company's efforts it's being extensively leaked online. We'll need to see how the broader fanbase reacts to these remakes when they arrive next week.
Let us know what you think of Smith's remarks. Do you feel fan feedback has ever been too hostile, or perhaps you think the responses to various releases have been generally fair from the fanbase? Let us know, as politely as possible(!), in the comments.
Some criticism is fine, of course, but the Pokémon fanbase takes it a bit too far. I mean, complaining about trees that look ugly up close.. I mean, really? Just.. really?
I think what fans need to remember is that 95% of the company are just trying to get through their 9 to 5 and that all the decisions they’re angry about are the fault of a few higher ups. Criticism is fine, but don’t harass people who have nothing to do with it.
@Mauzuri Graphics < Story < Gameplay < Trees
Everyone knows that
It's a video game. Stop losing sleep over a video game- one that's for kids!
Making the games accessible is one thing, but how much more accessible do they need to be?
Their idea of accessibility seems to be being able to get through a game with as little resistance as possible, as well as removing options and the need for critical thought.
Sure some fans may take it too far. But don't look for pity as the company with the highest grossing IP in the world after you put out subpar gaming experiences.
Modern day RPG's have evolved, accessibility doesn't mean a less engaging experience. Get with the times Gamefreak.
Some of the Pokemon fan base is very toxic indeed, but looking at the sales of Sword and shield, it's a very small but very vocal minority.
A difficulty setting should still be included. It wouldn't take that long to implement and if they really wanted they could introduce it as DLC. I'm sure I would've enjoyed gen 8 much more if it hadn't practically played itself at times.
People out there still really mad that Truckasaurus Rex or whatever didn’t make the cut in swsh
While I get that people on the internet can be mean, Pokémon is the biggest media franchise in the world, there's no excuse for such a poor job, money is not the issue here.
It also applies to the business perspective, while the games still sold millions, if this keeps going, eventually they will stop selling, no one is too big to fail.
Regardless of how they may experience it, I simply don't enjoy the pokémon experiences anymore that they've been delivering, as such I let it be known as to why I believe that's the case. I haven't bought Sword and Shield and won't buy BD/SP, at least not until I can find them for at the very most half price (which is highly unlikely), because of my continued disappointment with the series since X and Y.
If they don't want to fix the issues, that's fine, but then I also won't purchase, simple as that. I'm done supporting them just for the sake of it being pokémon.
While I found Sword and Shield lacking compared to Sun and Moon, many disagree. That's the issue. People grow up but Pokemon is a family friendly franchise. I want more postgame content, I want less linear areas. Diamond and Pearl were great because of the side areas like the old chateau. In the end, I want to enjoy the games. Sw/Sh were vastly enjoyable, just not as much as some of the other games. Just enjoy the games, if you don't feel like you're respected because they didn't include a Pikachu with an assault rifle and an eyepatch then maybe you've outgrown the franchise.
@DeathlySW Strange, I didn't see DQ 11 or Persona 5 with assault rifles, yet they received a high amount of praise.
@Chunkboi79 i'd argue Pokemon uses a lot newer concepts and strays way from ancient RPG and fantasy conventions than most modern day RPGs.
A lot of modern RPGs are still steeped in 30+ year old story, world and gameplay structured just with more modern tech.
@Dr_Lugae Which concepts?
Pokémon fanboys can be pretty harsh.
I've seen the vitriol over Pokemon SwSh. The comparison videos and such where it's hard not to conclude that the devs aren't putting their best foot forward. I wouldn't want to pay for a game that copy's and pastes their entries like every years Madden NFL. I boughty entry, played it, then traded it back to get something else. I play for nostalgia now, not for the cutting edge graphics or engrossing story lol
I think it’s very annoying that we complain about something, get it and then find something else to complain about. I’ve had friends who complained about not getting a Pokémon snap sequel for years, and then when we get a new Pokémon snap, they just complain about something like “it’s too short” or “ the characters are dull.” I don’t care that we don’t have every Pokémon in SWSH. It’s a kids game. It’s targeted to kids. I still would like more difficulty though.
Diehard fans are the worst to any franchise. History has consistently shown they do more harm than good to their so called beloved brand.
Me, wife and son have enjoyed Pokemon Sword & Shield a lot and still do. The DLC were fun, especially the Tundra one.
It's actually the only Pokemon game we played for this long.
@Nymos I totally agree with the difficulty setting, but they also need an option to skip text, Because its very annoying to sit through Rose saying absolutely nothing to Sonia, and then Leaving. It’s a waste of time.
On one hand we criticize companies for crunching their employees to working insanely overtime.
On the other, we want Pokemon Company to make a game with over 900 tridimensional models, both in battle and on the wild, with multiple combinations of moves, to look like Breath of the Wild.
We can't have both things.
In time: Nintendo is not the owner of Pokemon IP, that ownership is divided with The Pokemon Company, so it is not the sole responsible for decision making.
I like that they're using Arceus to meddle with the formula a bit. That way they can do that without the baggage of being a mainline entry.
@maulinks Honestly, I think if they made an open world action rpg like botw with a limited selection of usable pokemon and it was polished. I think we'd get a different response than what we did with sw&sh.
People were only upset over the lack of pokemon in sw&sh because they promised an improved experience from a graphical standpoint and they just reused old models and animations.
@Mauzuri They could look a bit better, but for me the big bad thing is no voice acting. Even Zelda started talking with the Switch, and yet Pokemon is still text only. Especially awkward when fighting Piers, who is supposed to be singing throughout the battle.
I'd even take Simlish as long as there's sound coming from their mouths.
@Chunkboi79 The game is structured in what's a very unique way. Games bosses, the gym leaders are within towns. Which are usually safe zones in RPGs. Battles are vary between distinct wild battles and trainer battles.
It presents goals where progress isn't just levelling up the same characters but also centred around collected Pokemon. Catching a new Pokemon can be as effective as levelling up.
A lot of RPGs just have more technically advanced versions of the same pattern gameplay and story structures with the same old town --> Dungeon-- > Boss structure
To the point that even remaining similar Pokemon is still fresher by repeating its unique concepts than all the RPGs that share the same conventions.
Take a look at Smash as an example of how to take a series from strength to strength.
I can’t imagine how successful (ie. money laden) the development studio is after 25 years of games, spinoffs and merchandise.
After such a long time people expect more and rightfully so.
@Mauzuri yeah anything in any game looks ugly when you look at it close enough... It's like if I were to complain about the details on the TVs in Animal Crossing: New Horizons just because "they look bad" when I zoom in on them... The trees don't look too bad IMHO especially when one considers they aren't exactly something the player is expected to focus on intently.
I mean I would be more upset with the trees if they were something you could headbutt like you could in Gold, Silver, Crystal, Heart Gold, or Soul Silver... The trees with the berries also look decent enough, since they are something the player interacts with.
@Yosher You didn't list any specific examples.
For the most part, I’ve been pretty satisfied with the newer Pokemon games and definitely think some of the criticism goes too far but most of it seems fair.
At this point, there is no reason to not have things like difficulty settings (like almost every other game has) toggle-able XP share, new game+, full pokedex, full controlable 3D camera.
It's particularly hard to sympathize when the company takes every opportunity to trip themselves. When you reach the internet age and people can more readily comb through your homework and see your mistakes and shortcuts, a shrug doesn't quite settle for an answer. We still never got a follow-up on the freaking excuse WHY the monsters are missing from the game being shown to be an outright lie. Even a simple admission of it being too much to check for porting errors over the number of them, but that's not what they gave and stuck to.
And just to touch on the "sophisticated" and "grown-up" aspect, if they're implying the brain dead story beats they got now....maybe don't willingly actively aim to replicate the Red/Blue settup? You handed off the series twice for two Gamecube experimental titles and they completely floored the rest of the series' story simply because they tried something new. Hell, Coliseum has you as one of the bad guys going rogue while still doing bad deeds in a Robin Hood sort of way.
The age of the internet is where the most immature middle schooler can reach out and threaten people that are working hard 8 hours a day via Twitter. Sure, the internet can be a great place but it gets too toxic too often, especially in recent years.
I‘d like to know what it would be like if we turned the whole thing off for a week. I guess we had millions of people hanging themselves because they wouldn‘t know what to do with themselves or feel irrelevant etc.
@Zarudepie There's a nice solution to that: Options -> Skip Movies. Granted it will skip ALL cutscenes, but you can always rewatch it on youtube playthroughs.
They say they "get it", but I don't think they do with the criticism they're focusing on.
I enjoyed Sword and Shield enough, but I can't pretend it didn't feel like it was a console generation or two behind in terms of presentation and gameplay.
The only parts of the game that left a lasting impression for me had nothing to do with the direct gameplay (Pokemon designs and soundtrack).
People on about how they are finding it difficult to show sympathy to a super-rich company are missing the point here. Yes, higher-ups should be accountable for things like budgeting, staffing, etc., but when it comes down to the individual devs that are working on the game, nobody deserves the kind of rage responses they receive. Not to say one's work can't be criticized fairly, but for real, I think we all know there's a population who goes way past that.
@HADAA it only skips a few cutscenes where you don’t press buttons. If you need to press A to advance the text, you can’t skip it and it is just ridiculous
So many people are willing to excuse corporate greed and incompetence, I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever. If you don't want your game criticised maybe try putting out a better product?
I have seen some people lash out horribly at reviewed of Sword and Shield which was wrong. I do think though that Game Freak has done a pretty bad job of striking a balance when you consider that kids were already playing the older Pokémon games without any problem and the new ones are becoming almost as brainless as mobile games. I'm not asking for Dark Souls, I just want the option to feel more engaged in battles. Even when I go back and replay the older games, they are still more difficult than playing a new game blind. That's despite the fact that I have them fully memorized. That's not good. The Pokémon Company has even acknowledged that many of the current fans are adults who grew up with the series and they know the games are for all ages. They have done a lot to cater to younger players, but it's time to at least add some basic options and settings to the game to make things more interesting at the bare minimum.
They've been through a lot, but still they refuse to fix their games. They have been making the same game practically for decades. No ambition, minimum effort.
@Chunkboi79 I am going to be pedantic, but there is an assault rifle in Persona 5 used by Yusuke, one of the party members. =P
I do agree with the sentiments of your comment though.
aww Pokemon company can't take some valid criticism
I stopped playing pokemon because it is virtually the same exact story and progression every single game. You are a trainer, work your through the gyms, stop an evil plot, become champion. zzz.... Do something new please!
@Tao The most memorable thing about the battle with Leon is him saying "Let's have a champion time." Lol The only Champion battle that was worse to me was Diantha.
Making the games accessible for everyone is a great concept if done right. Despite the Pkmn serie always being on the easier side, I saw people managing to get stuck, so making everyone able to play is a plus.
I also really don't mind the current presentation (ack, human models have been between the best around recently) and the core gameplay concept is timeless imo.
HOWEVER... it would be great if they didn't make unavoidable all the changes to help make the games easier and accessible. Forcing those easier changes while removing some of the more challanging features is just a shame for more experts players. Indeed is been really pushing me away from buying newer enteries like the upcoming remakes tbh.
All that said... the online offensive backslash is obviously unexcusable. Criticism is important and needed, but people should never forget to show respect and politeness even when complaining. The fact there are still too many people able to forget such basic rule is just a shame...
@13AM_Alex I encounter many programs with devs keeping most of the play files locked behind "curses" players need to cast upon themselves in order to gain access. ::sigh:: like, in astral chain, for example.. you're literally limited access to File 1 and part of File 2 where you're only allowed to control your character's fight buttons in a training room without any baddies. You can't get access to the rest of File 2-File 12 without placing mud on any sense of conscience you might have.
@Dr_Lugae these concepts have been used for the last 25 years and haven't been innovative on. Just because you fight bosses in towns doesn't make the gameplay loop anymore interested. Trainer battles and wild battles function the exact same with the only difference being trainer battles might require a potion.
I disagree with the notion that the locations of the battles themselves tend to innovate or keep the formula fresh. However, the monster catching aspect is the strong point and honestly the selling point of pokemon. However, it's still the same formula that we've been playing from day in and day out. I don't need a full blown different way to play as we've seen with other modern day rpg's you can innovate without changing the core formula.
@MS7000 You right lol I forgot about that. My main team was Makoto, Mona, and Ryuji so that slipped my mind.
@HedgehogEngine You didn't mention gameplay though. The Wild Area was boring. Some towns were just corridors. There were livelier towns on the Gameboy. Not to mention that outside of one or two gym leader, the whole game could probably be played by just spamming one attack over and over regardless of typing outside of immunities. They really could've added difficulty modes that altered the AI behavior and gave the NPCs held items or something. Galar was charming, but then they made strange decisions with what were otherwise beautiful cities and towns. It was quite jarring.
@EVIL-C Do you really need any more specific examples than what has been circling around the web for years now?? Okay.
Story hasn't been as fun. Gimmick mechanics forced down people's throats with the likes of Z moves, mega evolution, and dynamaxing. Animations being bad. Forced EXP share. Dexit. Stupid expensive Pokemon Home service. Etc etc etc. It's all been a big snowball effect that led me to no longer enjoy the main series pokemon games. I've bought and immensely enjoyed New Pokemon Snap. That game was really great. But the main games just.... don't cut it for me anymore, for reasons listed above and more.
And the reason I keep commenting on it is because I'm still a pokémon fan at heart and it's continuously disappointed because if this stuff.
@Crockin Mr Plow for Smash Bros
@PessitheMystic oh heck yah
Good. This series has become an embarrassment. I hope sales drop off so fast they get whiplash and decide to start taking themselves seriously.
@Otoemetry It's not about "corporate greed" or "incompetence".
They wouldn't have this feedback if they didn't keep rushing these games out. My fans literally just want a difficulty slider and no forced experience share.
@Mordridakon The games aren't exactly unpredictable, but each game at least does something interesting with the context of each setting.
@razorxkenshin No ambition? What about Legends: Arceus?
Fan feedback is as it should be. Dexit was a small part of the problem: fewer pokemon should have guaranteed better graphics an animations, a bigger world, more exploration options, better puzzles and a whole better experience.
They ignore precisely what you guys mention in the article: improvement, an evolution of the franchise, considering the huge amount of resources at their disposal.
When I don’t enjoy a franchise anymore I walk away. Let those that enjoy it, enjoy it and I’ll go find a new favorite.
Instead, so many games get altered trying to cater to the mob which is an abyss of consumer greed. They can never be satisfied. People threaten, demean and harass other humans over pixels and justify with the thought that 60 dollars gives them a free pass to attack others. If people came after their work and job like that, they would be the first to say it’s harassment. Yet these are often the same people that that say games are art but then think they have any say in the process of creating the game other than buying or not buying. Etiquette, restraint, decency and courtesy are really lost in this day and age. Perhaps they never truly existed and people now have the power of anonymity to be themselves.
@victordamazio Ah yes, the "biggest media franchise" bit. It really doesn't matter if they're big or small.
I'm a casual gamer for Pokemon games and have no idea about past Pokemon games but i'm okay with current releases such as Let's Go, Sword / Shield as long the games are not broken.
I don't ask too much for upcoming Pokemon games and will still play them casually. I still prefer Yokai Watch games than Pokemon games actually.
Pokemon "fans" are childish and obnoxious, and their arrested development leaves them without a shred of self awareness. Thank god the internet is forever and we can continue to laugh at their embarrassing complaints. Sword and Shield made bank and so will the upcoming remakes.
@KBuckley27 That's not how it goes.
@Chunkboi79 that was probably a difficult decision on the develoment team. To me, pokemon games should have 200 pokemon at the most, to allow the team to make the gameplay aspect excellent. The introduction of new pokemon with "generation" nas new starters became unsustainable over time and a nightmare for the development team.
I don't think the graphics were the problem with Sword and Shield, Pokemon was never about graphics, it was about feeling like going on and adventure and getting lost in a continent while collecting and training companions. And they based the animations on the previous games and improved them - that's how animation works.
Sword and Shield was bad because it was incredibly linear, there were no mazes in caves or complex routing, and the gameplay in the wild area feels a bit off. The story isn't the best either. But those are just my opinions.
To me, if they made the game like the remake of Links Awakening (graphically), very polished but with 2d perspective (not these Diamond and Pearl remakes which I don't think look good), it would be better.
@Chunkboi79 It's not about "pity" or "getting with the times.
And it really doesn't matter how high or low-grossing an IP is.
@thiz They aren't treating them like "babies". I know a game that treats you like a baby when I see one. And so far, the Pokemon games haven't been that.
@Yosher It goes beyond it "being Pokemon". This is a franchise that means a lot to so many people, and they're going to stay fans of it, whatever flaws each installment may have. I have my own problems with Sword/Shield and Sun/Moon, but I'm not going to just give up on what I love because of them.
Poor them, it’s not like they have the most lucrative franchise ever… oh wait !
@thiz No, it isn't for toddlers. People of all ages have been playing this game. Besides, you have the option not to pay attention to the NPCs.
@Duboiss Ah yes, that old bit. The "biggest franchise ever" one. It doesn't matter how big or small a franchise is.
Pokemon games are as good as a game made with the solely purpose of make money as fast as possible can be.
Anyways, pokemon games were never part of the best of the besf of the genre(rpg).
It's simple don't harras the devs, because often they do not decide what happens.
As for the people that do, they are stupid because if you got a controversial idea you know a lot of people would dislike, then why force it?
There are many things that S&S did wrong, even while I did enjoy the game and it's DLC, but let's name one of many examples which is the Exp Share.
Why pernamently on?
Give the option, eventually at the start of the game to have it on or off, and that way you keep the majority happy (not counting the ones that will always complain)
But no, they had to force it on.
And I could make a full discussion out of this, but there is no need for it.
See everyone does tend to make mistakes, but there are multiple types of mistakes you can make.
One of them is knowing full well something is a bad idea, and yet you do it and your colleagues (devs in this case) get all the punches for your stupid decision (and you get away like nothing happened)
You set your house on fire, do not call 911/112 and have a "surprised pikachu" face that everything went down to ashes.
That is a issue multiple companies have out there btw, it is not a Gamefreak or even Gaming releated issue only.
But again, they knew it would cause angry people, they HAD a solution, yet they ignored all that and went with it.
That is saddening, and to make it worse the people that got the blame most of the time are not even at fault, the higher ups are.
It's very important to filter out the differences between "fans" who want to be toxic and threaten the peace of those in the community with personal attacks and harassment, however it's equally important to simply recognise fans who are just disappointed and share genuine critique that they feel would improve the series.
A lot of the "positive" fans I witness really fail to understand that it isn't as black and white as "critique bad, praise good". Both "negative" and "positive" comments on a product are a positive thing overall and necessary for most developers to evolve (no pun intended).
Being content with a series because you've had no experience with the previous entries is fine. However if you're content with being well... content, then you shouldn't have an issue with people asking for improvements. Again, just learn to actually filter out between those with malicious intent and those without it.
I think the silliest argument I've seen from "positive" fans (different from actual positive fans, please understand why I'm using quotation marks) is the one that leaves critiques with no winning answer.
>Doesn't buy the game
"You can't say negative thing about the game because you haven't even experienced it for yourself to give a fair critique."
>Buys the game to give a fair critique
"You can't say negative thing about the game because you just gave Pokemon money and failed to vote with your wallet."
Be considerate of both sides thank you. Mature discussion with critique on a series is not a bad thing that needs to be stomped out like I see some people thinking. Vocal minorities (aka "Bad Apples") will always spoil your outside view of a group.
Try to remember that so we can have healthy discussions. That goes for me too going forward.
@thiz No. They are NOT just for people 3-6. Pokemon games are meant to be for all ages. LEGO sets are different, because quote-on-quote "50 year olds" (which is inaccurate at best) are shown with LEGO sets to review the products and see if they're things that kids would like.
And no one is "forcing you to do what they want". They're giving you advice and trying to be helpful.
@thiz No, I AM understanding what you're saying. You're saying that these games are for babies because NPCs are telling you what you need to do, when you can simply ignore them if you feel like you've heard enough.
And you didn't understand what I said either.
My confidence in GameFreak, The Pokemon Company and how the entire franchise is at an all time low. I'm skipping D&P remakes because they're 100% not for me and for the first time in about 5 years I wont be buying a new mainline Pokemon game day one.
Huge changes in terms of project management need to happen before I get excited about a new Pokemon game again. Like give an entry to MonolithSoft and have Nintendo directly oversee development.
@originaljohn I find it disheartening that you're going to skip these games without at least trying them and seeing if you like them or not.
@thiz Stop what? I'm trying to be reasonable with you.
I played the game myself, and the cutscenes don't happen "every 20 steps you take". They happen when you get to where you need to go. Besides, there's an option for you to skip the cutscenes and make the text go faster.
I think that part of the issue is that the Pokemon fan base has grown up - but that the core games remain, in essence, for a younger audience. Even with a bit of a refresh (which I think many aspects of the series is in need of) the core game won't staisfy many of the older gamers who expect features comparable with other games.
No issue with the article itself, but do you guys really need to use the SAME image so often?
@thiz No, I'm not. You're not a "special needs kid", and I'm not telling you what to think.
I DO get what you said. I just you're being rather unfair.
But fine. You do you. I don't care.
They deserve every last bit of it. Pokémon has had one of the worst declines in game quality I’ve ever seen for a series in recent years and you’d think they’d put more effort into them considering this is one of Nintendo’s flagship franchises. Keep the complaints coming.
For us grown-ups who have been playing the games since the Game Boy days I assume that the lack of difficulty is one of the more problematic issues. I for one liked the idea introduced in B/W where a hard mode could be unlocked which made Gym Leaders have stronger teams etc. I generally like how the developers try different things with the IP but a difficulty option would be a great addition.
But I also would like GF to balance the games more so more Pokémon are viable for combat. Update stats or give some older mons new evolutions instead of introducing new ones all the time. That was one of the more interesting aspects of the Sinnoh games to begin with.
@Funneefox It hasn't been THAT bad. There's no denying the games have had a lot of flaws in recent years, but it's not like the whole franchise is going to come tumbling down.
@mr-duster I would call that, buying it "because pokémon" deluxe.
Good on you that you still enjoy it of course! I hope you will for years to come. I have for many years too and I didn't want to give up on it either because I've always loved the pokémon games. But once more and more flaws came around I just couldn't get myself to buy it anymore because, what i once loved, had become but a mere shell of what was once an amazing experience.
I still really hope they'll turn things around and make amazing experiences out of them again in the future. But as it stands right now....I just don't see it. All my hope is currently set on the Arceus game. I'm still on the fence about that one.
@mr-duster yeah you’re speaking facts. I just think 90% of the decline is just how soulless and unpolished the series has been getting with each game IMO.
Learn to actually listen to the feedback you're getting, and learn to actually work towards making high quality Pokemon games, instead of cash grab, rushed, overpriced and glorified 3Ds games with incremental revisions each year, textures that look like they've been commissioned on Fiverr, lying to consumers about your reused assets and randomly cutting out Pokemon that should be in the games day 1 (Dexit) and maybe you wouldn't get so much hate.
No one cares about your crying like you guys are some indie developer struggling on funds to make good games. You're literally THE HIGHEST grossing franchise of all time. You're going to get haters. You will be criticized for your laziness. Grow up and do better.
@mr-duster oh it very much is actually. People like you who are willing to shill for Gamefreak have allowed the series to stagnate, the cost of these games (base game+DLC) is higher than most AAA games yet the experience is that of a toddler's first RPG. I totally get why TPC continue putting in the least amount of effort while reaping the huge rewards, because "fans" continue to fall for it and gladly open their wallets for inspection.
I played a few hours of Sword after avoiding the cheap cash grab Let's Go! games and it's safe to say the games are no longer made for adult players, until things improve and the value of the games matches their cost I won't be buying any more of them.
I've been playing Pokémon since I got my Gameboy colour along with Blue back when I was a kid so I am entitled to call myself a fan of the series, if TPC and Gamefreak don't want me to continue playing the series they're going the right way about making that permanent.
@Yosher But that's just it. I don't love the Pokemon franchise simply because "it's just Pokemon". It goes beyond that. Like I said, this is a franchise that still means a lot to so many people. All of the flaws that the most recent games have had don't bother everyone this badly. It never felt like a "shell". And I know I'll be called a brain dead sheep for this, but I personally believe that the games have gotten better with each installment, if not without their own nagging flaws as well. I want the Pokemon games to keep on improving like everyone else, but I'm still going to give these games an honest try and see if I like them or not.
Though again, that's just my personal opinion.
@mr-duster What a silly comment.
It sad that grown men act like this over a video game. I love the pokemon games just the way they are. Kids are supposed to be able to play the games too. If you do not like the pokemon games the way they are then DON'T PLAY THEM. and let the ones who do have fun with them , enjoy them.
@Mauzuri It's not only the tree. The tree is just an easier way to show the lack of care that's been put into the newer Pokemon titles.
Also for a company running the biggest IP of a generation, Game Freak should be ashamed of themselves for having to play the victim every single time.
Look at a game like Atelier Ryza. The Atelier series is not one I'm particularly familiar with but by just looking at screenshots of both games you'd think Ryza was a bigger game than SwSh.
Another thing of note is that sure, Pokemon fans might be toxic to developers on social media. But think about if any other big IP had a similar drop in quality. Remember The Last Jedi?
@Otoemetry No, it isn't.
Fans don't "fall for it". There are people that want to give these games an honest try, with an open mind and a positive attitude, and see if they like them or not. Sometimes they end up liking them, sometimes they don't. I'm not willing to "shill" anything. I'm willing to give the new installments an honest try and see if I like them. And most times, I do end up liking them, in spite of whatever flaws they have. If you don't end up liking them, that's fine. Just please, don't demonize people that do, or aren't as turned off by all their problems as you are.
And for the record, the Let's Go games weren't "cash grabs". They were meant for players new to the series. Even if it gained interest from older fans as well.
@Chunkboi79 What? I'm just explaining how I feel.
@Funneefox For me personally, it's been the opposite.
@Carck I highly doubt it's a matter of "playing victim". It's not like they're responsible for a crime against society.
Through a lot? Then make a better game! Get better in organizing! Is that too hard for them to do a better job?
Pokémon company is the biggest franchise in the world, if everything has to been done in a tight deadline then just hire more people to finish the job, instead of cutting corner! Why is it so hard?
No national dex don't really bother me a lot. But the graphic? Graphic may not as important as gameplay but the truth is that it's one of the main elements that makes video game a video game. Graphic is the key to make the game appealing to people and especially in this era, performance, animations, texture are one of the key to determine whether this game is actually worth 60 bucks.
Used animation from past games, dirt alike stretched graphic, character awkwardly talking with no voices, etc.
The graphic in wild area and the upcoming Pokémon legend game is so terrible its baffling. It's 2021 - 2022, the texture is dirt dirty, it's not open world and the performance still isn't 30 fps stable?
Compare to games like Mario oddsey, botw, even monster hunter on switch. Every 3D Pokémon game gamefreak always felt like it's one decade behind the current tech. This is not an excuse and they shouldn't be setting the bar so low that they have to use a black screen with a text on screen everytime a living thing interacting with object every Cutscene.
@SwaySnivy Come on, the visuals aren't THAT bad. Do I want to see more improvement? Yes, I do. But trust me when I say the graphics could've been MUCH worse. It's not about "excuses".
@mr-duster dude, it's terrible in current Era, it's not 2016 anymore. If it got dirt texture like the tree in swsh and it should at least run 60 fps. Most Ps4 games' graphic are way better than the current swsh. If Mario oddsey can run 60 fps smoothly then why can't swsh run in a stable 30 fps without framedrop?
@SwaySnivy No, it is not "terrible". We know it's not 2016, but that's not what it looks like. If it were, the visuals would've been pixely beyond recognition. I've seen games with far worse graphics than this.
@mr-duster you are literally going round to every negative comment and telling them they're wrong, you're shilling for Gamefreak plain and simple. If it was just about "your opinion" you'd post your comment and move on, but it's not so you continue with your pointless rebuttals with zero substance. You can't just go round to every comment you don't like saying NO IT ISN'T as if that wins the argument, you have to accept that for lots of people who are longtime fans of the series the latest games are big disappointments.
@Yosher Some of those reasons I can relate to. I still consider myself a fan too, although I admit Pokemon is kinda boring to me now. For me, Pokemon peaked with Gen 2.
@Otoemetry No, I'm not telling them that they're wrong. I'm simply disagreeing with them. It IS my opinion. I'm not telling them to do things they don't want to, and I'm not trying to control them.
I am NOT shilling Game Freak. I understand that a lot of people have been disappointed with how the recent games have performed. But I feel like that they're being either too unfair or unreasonable at times.
@mr-duster That's something we can respectfully disagree on then. You believe the games have gotten better with each installment, I think it's only gotten worse and worse starting with X and Y.
I also kept buying them before, despite X and Y and every game after disappointing me more and more. Until the Let's Go games which were my last ones. At that point I felt like I had enough and I had given them three benefit of the doubt more than enough.
That's okay though. I really hope you can keep enjoying them and that you don't start feeling like I do about the franchise now.
@mr-duster Please stop having low bar expectations, the Pokémon company loves to have people like you, because then they will expect the fan to keep bootlicking them and support their every mediocre, half-baked products they have released. It will be 2022 and Pokémon legend still have that exact dirt graphic that swsh wild area has, while having terrible performance even it's not open world.
@Mauzuri I agree with your post. Constructive criticism is fine - and they DO need it - but sections of the fan base definitely go too far. That said....What's this about trees? Busy adult me has been living under an internet rock it seems.
@Yosher I'm truly sorry for that. I'm sorry the games have gone downhill for you. I hope you can find happiness in other things.
@SwaySnivy Stop it. I am NOT "bootlicking", nor do I have any low-bar expectations. I'm trying to have reasonable ones. I expect a game have responsive controls, gameplay that's beyond one button to press, visuals that aren't blocky or pixellated, and most of all, I just want to have fun. And most of the time, I do have fun (keyword being "most"). I've seen so many people demonizing people, calling them "sheep" or "bootlickers" for not having the same opinions as them and I'm getting sick of it. Every new installment we go through this.
I know "half-baked" and "mediocre" when I see it. Could the games look better? Yes. But could they have looked worse? Oh yes.
@Tyranexx The whole "trees" thing has been kind of a meme since summer 2019.
There’s a Dutch proverb, which translates to “Tall trees catch a lot of wind”, the Pokemon franchise is one of the biggest in the business, of course there will be rude, nasty and/or unpleasant people, it’s not nice, it sucks when you have to deal with them, but it’s a fact of life.
That being said, the lack of ambition in recent entries (Dexit combined with the “For better graphics”-lie, BDSP not being feature complete even after the 3Gb day 1 patch) is terrible, the whole thing smacks of “Meh, they’ll buy it anyway”, which is a bad attitude for a developer, because at some point, no idea when, people will stop buying it.
@mr-duster go back and read your comments, literally every one is contradicting the other person's opinions. Just stop it, you are quite clearly happy with Pokémon games and have made that point several many times. Stop trying to contradict people who have different opinions.
@Otoemetry I'm not trying to contradict them. I'm disagreeing with them and giving reasons as to why.
@mr-duster the funds the company has absolutely has an effect on the production of a video game. In addition, evolving and switching up the formula is essential to progressing as a game. Mario and Zelda are great examples of this.
@MysticX I personally believe it goes beyond "meh, they'll buy it anyway". Because whatever flaws the games have don't always bother some people as much as they do others.
That being said, I do hope that The Pokemon Company takes all of this into account, because if all of this controversy continues, everything will come crumbling down, and we may never get another Pokemon game again.
Oh wow the most successful media franchise is under attack for being such a cheap and greedy company who only want more money in their pockets, poor them! maybe they can fix it up by cutting more corners and cutting more content and forcing players to do what the company wants instead of giving players more option…that should do the trick.
@Chunkboi79 I'm aware of that. And from what we've seen in Legends: Arceus, it seems that the series is going to go in broader directions. And from what I've heard recently, 2022 is supposedly going to be an exciting year for Pokemon fans. How? I don't know. But I'm hoping it's something that people will actually look forward too. Because if all of this controversy keeps up, the Pokemon franchise as we know it may come to an end for good. And I don't want that to happen.
@Dragonite89 You don't need to use excessive sarcasm to get your point across.
@mr-duster it’s just my take on this issue, you can ignore it if you don’t like it. simple as that.
Not trying to be rude, but I just want to point things out.
"a game have responsive controls, gameplay that's beyond one button to press, visuals that aren't blocky or pixellated."
Every games nowadays, even the most basic one(beside pixel game) . These things are must-have in order to even make the game an playable actual game.
No one likes a game full of bugs, terrible Ai. No one loves a game that even one single press of a button can finish a stage (aka sonic force), no one actually love a game that have terrible graphic or performance.
But hey, if you're having fun and enjoy the game, then good for you man
@SwaySnivy Fine by me. But again, the graphics don't look "terrible". And I haven't experienced any bugs or glitches when I played the game. It worked just fine.
And enough of this "bootlicker" stuff. People have different opinions on this sort of thing.
@Dragonite89 I'm just saying. It doesn't help.
@mr-duster That complicates matters a bit, things like Dexit are a big deal for some people (I'm one of them, i want my favourites together, and i don't mean in PokeHome cold storage), while others don't care as long as they have Pikachu and Charizard...
Still, BDSP is a particular omnishambles, a 3Gb day 1 patch, and still no proper online (A mainstay of the series for several generations now) would be damning for any game, but here people just yell "ToXiC pLaYeRbAsE!" and gloss over it, but how long will they keep doing that?
@mr-duster I know what helps, cutting more content & giving players less option. that should be it, More money in the pockets of the company, I mean it’s Pokemon people will eat it up no matter what.
@MysticX I personally want to try BD/SP before I give my final opinion on them.
And I've been conflicted with the whole "toxic playerbase" thing since 2019. On one hand, I feel bad that there are people that aren't getting what they want and that The Pokemon Company seemingly isn't listening to them. On the other hand, I feel like people tend to blow things out of proportion at times and start treating the company like the Anti-Christ.
@mr-duster I don't think you have much to worry about. In regards to the series ending.
These people complain but for the better part of the last 20 years Pokemon has slumped to around 15-17 million sales.
But Sword/Shield look to overtake Gold/Silvers 23 million. And LGPE is selling better than all other remakes .
That suggests what they think Pokemon should be isn't what the majority buy it for.If it was the DS games should have sold much better since all the "bootlickers" should have bought the entries they like more than Sw/Sh.
They can call "bootlicker" all they want but their ideas don't reflect reality.
I do wonder how many people harassing the devs are the intended demographic vs people that have aged out. I'd be surprised if 20 percent were children.
@Dragonite89 Here we go again...
Cutting corners and limiting options obviously isn't going to help. There will be people who choose not to buy this game, as noted above. But there are people that aren't bothered by whatever flaws the games have, and don't feel a need for difficulty. That's their deal.
I just remember when they promised open areas in Sw/Sh like if they were BotW sections.
To be honest SW/SH have been the worst Pokémon experience of my gaming life and I was there with the original GB games. X and Y are way better and that’s saying something.
There are countless things to criticize in those games and they are all valid because they are the bottom of the barrel.
@Munchlax I don't think many Pokemon fans can grasp that.
@fafonio I don't they ever "promised" that.
usually when i think of "accessibility" its usually things to allow people to play the games themselves, things such as options for subtitles, options for colour blindness, control options (button remapping and support for adaptive controllers etc)
from what i gather a lot of the issues people have with pokemon are things such as how restrictive things can get when it comes to exploration and the like and the lack of difficulty in the main game when it comes to combat.
it does feel like quite a few of those could be solved with options such as a hard mode (available from the start) and having skippable tutorials and letting players explore more.
@mr-duster Pokemon will never go to the wayside, it is quite literally the highest grossing IP in the world.
They just need to stop developing games from 2006
@mr-duster or we could collectively criticize them and tell them what they’re doing is not ok, just because a select few is ok with being sold trash, doesn’t mean the rest should be fine with it, criticism is ok especially if the said company is taking advantage of their customers cause they know people are just gonna eat it up because of brand loyalty, taking advantage of others loyalty & trust to do less work and to sell them sub-par products should not be ok in the slightest as they’re taking people’s hard earned money…Pokemon Company & Gamefreak deserve to be criticized and called out every step of the way for being cheap and incompetent, as the biggest media franchise in the world they should be ashamed of themselves.
@Dr_Lugae That take is a bit disingenuous. The sales lean a lot more on the Switch's much more booming popularity to the general mainstream than the more niche previous handhelds. Let's not pretend that while previous Nintendo handhelds do sell wonderfully to their demographic, the Switch shares the same "kid's handheld" stigma nearly as bad. The Switch's Pokemon title can and has been marketed to reach people new to Nintendo consoles, those who have been away from Pokemon since much earlier titles, and THEN to those who have followed the series more faithfully.
Removed from the whole of how good or bad SwSh was going to be, it was bound to sell more than expected out of the Game Boy to 3DS console range because they are putting themselves out to a larger market of people.
@mr-duster look at you, You. Are. Still. Doing. It!
Literally every comment that comes along which you disagree with your reply comes along to contradict.
LET PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS TO YOURS.
@Dragonite89 I'm not saying The Pokemon Company's choices shouldn't go without criticism. There's a lot of things they've done that I don't agree with. But it's not about customers "eating up". Some people aren't as bothered by whatever flaws the games have as others. And some people want to give these games an honest try with a positive attitude before making final opinions. It's not about being "ashamed". Like I said, it's not like they committed a serious crime against humanity.
@Otoemetry I AM letting people have their opinions. I'm only disagreeing with them. You can disagree with my opinions too, you know. Sheesh.
Great, the size of two regions…. Those areas were brimming with so much empty and uninspired fun that I can almost remember my enjoyment trekking kilometers of those vast, empty and dull lands with a little puddle over here, a little empty hill over there, a tree in the corner…. Did I mention the areas looked all the same?
For a game that came out AFTER a certain other game with open and creatively designed areas like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 …. Pokémon looked and played like a very very poorly made and amateurish indie game.
@fafonio I disagree with all of that. It does not look like an "amateurish indie". Trust me, I know what an indie game looks like. Some look good, others not. And it's not just "little empty hill, a tree or a little puddle". We know it goes beyond that.
I know because I've actually seen what the Wild Area looks like.
@Chunkboi79 Except that's not what they're doing.
@mr-duster wow. I guess we played different games then. Also, just look for a comparison between what an open area looks like in XC2 screenshots vs a Wild Area in Pokémon, and come back to me.
@fafonio I know full well that the two are very different graphically. Xenoblade has a much more grandiose style, while the Wild Area's is more simplistic. That goes without saying, doesn't it?
@mr-duster simplistic. Thanks for proving my point then.
For the biggest IP on the market… simplistic doesn’t cut it. At least not a selling new feature for the series.
Also, don’t go comparing yourself with an open-world award winning game and then say “we were aiming for simplistic”
It’s not graphically either, it’s the design. Pokémon Wild Areas are flat and without anything creative about them, whereas in XC you have 3-5 levels of geographic landscapes, you have fictional settings, flora, you know… creativity. In Pokémon there was absolutely nothing new or creative in its Wild Areas.
@fafonio Simplicity isn't always a bad thing. And again, it doesn't matter how big or small an IP is.
The Wild Area looks fine. It's not as detailed as what we saw in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, but it still looks fine. It's not about what "cuts it". And who's this "we"? I'm not working with The Pokemon Company.
Half of those complaints wouldn't even be there if GameFreak wasn't so stubborn in the first place.
I get it that Pokemon target audience is kids, but that doesn't mean the game has to be dumbed down. Give us gym leaders with better AI and teams, give us good post game content, a plot that doesn't kick in during the last stretch, also a decent plot, and so on.
Hell, gym leaders don't even use held items that aren't berries, why should I use it?
@Clod I'm talking about the Nintendo DS which sold 150million units versus the Switch's current 90million.
That massively boosted Nintendo's reach beyond what even the Switch might sell in the end. But Pokemon never saw much of a boost at all.
And you can't say the DS was niche compared to Switch because brand new IP like Nintendogs and Brain Training outsold Diamond and Pearl.
@CielloArc You don't think the plots are decent?
@mr-duster but many people are bothered by it, Pokémon company deserves to criticized and called out for all the cheap and greedy decisions they make, they’re not some small indie company like Gamefreak was in 1996, they should put more effort and at least pretend to care about their customers by adding in the most requested features such as complete national dex & mega evolution, those are the minimal for a 105 billion dollar franchise and for the $60 they’re asking their consumers, yeah sure they’re not committing a crime but what they’re doing in morally wrong and they will try to get away with taking advantage of their customers as much as possible and as legally as possible down to every cent in their pockets… that’s why these companies should be called out and always be in check as they will try to get away with as much heinous things as they possibly can as long as it’s legal.
@mr-duster no you're not, you're arguing with everyone who doesn't agree with you. If you were fine with people having different opinions you wouldn't keep repeating yourself over and over again, Jesus Christ get a life! Anyway I'm bored of your constant tired and circular reasoning so on the ignore list you go.
@Otoemetry Yes I AM. I'm letting people know how I feel about this, and why I disagree with them. I have a life. I don't know why you keep responding to me if you have such a problem.
@mr-duster re-read that sentence… I’m not talking about you in the “we” lol.
And as I said, it’s not about the graphical details. It’s about the dull landscapes. There was absolutely nothing creative about them, they were all flat and boring.
Want to see waterfalls, woods, ruins, lakes, mountains, etc? Yes, we have those here, the size of a pea, with creative design levels of incompetence.
I mean, you could go look at something like Shadow of the Colossus on the PS2 and you could see what world-building and design is about. Not graphically but from a creative design standpoint
@Dragonite89 I know The Pokemon Company's actions shouldn't go without criticism. I already said that. But excessive sarcasm isn't going to help either. A complete National Dex and Mega Evolution isn't what I call "minimal". All of the things we've had in the Pokemon games just keep adding up in numbers, and eventually it will be physically impossible to add them all into one game without prolonging a game's release far longer than necessary.
@fafonio They weren't flat or boring to me. They weren't the "size of a pea" either. I've actually seen the size of those things, and they aren't quote-on-quote "pea-sized". That is freaking ridiculous.
And I've seen so many people use the "incompetence" thing to demonize the designers when things aren't how they want it to be, despite the fact that it never was a matter of "incompetence" in the first place.
@mr-duster I have a problem because you keep arguing about allowing people to have the opinion that the games are good, all the while telling people who disagree that they're wrong! You're being hypocritical.
You are literally the only person replying to LITERALLY EVERYONE WHO HAS A NEGATIVE OPINION so you obviously don't believe that different opinions are ok, can't you see why this is such ridiculous behaviour? Just let people have their opinions and stop telling them they're wrong.
Weird how no one mentions the games biggest problem; being tied to the other media forms. The reason these games aren't/will never be as good as they can is cause they have a stupid limited amount of time to make it. They have to match their games to whatever media that's going to release, usually the anime, and it forces them into terrible time constraints that drastically lowers the quality of the games. On the flip side, it is the single highest grossing IP on Earth and I'm not sure why they don't have the main crew focus on the engine and gameplay, so they can then hire teams to work on each Pokemon model and move-set animations. They keep their main studio at what, 200 people max? They have the money to afford more people to make the games better and they don't. Just seemingly terrible executive decisions all around.
@Otoemetry Why are you saying I'm telling people that I'm wrong? I'm NOT. I never was. I DO believe that different opinions are okay. I don't always agree with them, but I believe they're okay. People can have whatever opinions they want.
I never told anyone that they were wrong, so quit saying that I was.
@BetterThanVegas what's the betting Mr duster has something to say about your comment...
@Otoemetry Nothing. I have nothing. He makes a good point, and that's something the company should do.
@BetterThanVegas Eh look at Final Fantasy. More time and bigger teams don't make a better game. SE take much longer to make one game, it doesn't sell as well as the PS1 era and they have lower critical reception.
The fact that pokemon is made quickly could be an advantage. When Pokemon GO was popular GF could follow it up with LGPE in less than 2 yesrs which turned out to be the most popular remake.
When games get bigger and bigger it slows their ability to respond to the market.
@mr-duster So what’s going to help then give an example, like letting these big companies take advantage of people cause some are fine with it and it’s legal? Mega evolution and national dex are the minimal with the power of Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch basically has 75% the power of a base Playstation 4, If Gamefreak Can fit 807 pokemon both regular, different forms, and shiny forms, Mega Evolution & Z Moves and all their animations on a mere 3DS there’s literally No Excuse for Gamefreak & the Pokémon Company Not To Do That on a much much more powerful Nintendo Switch…and with all the money and resources they have they could hire quadruple the developers they currently have if they really wanna put effort, quality and finish the games on time…
@mr-duster go back and read your own comments, they're there for all to see. The first thing you said to me was that I was wrong, the are plenty of other replies where you told people they were wrong.
Just move on, you've shown yourself up here as being incapable of letting people have different opinions than your own.
@Dragonite89 And with Legends: Arceus on the way, it seems that they're closer to fulfilling those wishes. From what we've heard, it's supposedly a step forward for the series as a whole. If we're lucky, maybe we will get all of those things in the future.
@NIN10DOXD I honestly remember nothing about the game beyond some of the new Pokemon designs were cool, a few new trainer/NPC designs were cool and I really liked the gym battle music. Otherwise the game was so unmemorable that if I picked it up and started a new game, it would feel new to me.
Not exactly a glowing review considering I say I enjoyed the game...Kudos to the art and sound team I guess.
@Meteoroid Black and White 2 both had difficulty sliders that were unlockable bonuses from the first 2 games. Almost everyone I've ever heard or read from enjoyed this. It made the game have challenge for those who wanted it. Personally I loved it as well. Made me focus on teambuilding and I had to pay attention during fights and plan accordingly. It's a weird outlier cause everyone said, "yes, this is good. more of this pls." and GameFreak said no. It's not so much as the increased difficulty as the option to do so. Why are we denied what is the most basic video game option, the ability to choose difficulty, when they have shown they CAN do it? And they did it well.
I vaguely remember hearing in an interview (featuring Masuda) that was published back in 2018 where he said that part of the reason why the games are being made "easier" and "more approachable" was to compete with mobile games, but after doing some research into that he kind of made an oopsy-whoopsie by putting LGPE and SwSh into separate categories (the former being a more "lighter, casual game for those without smartphones" while the latter is considered a "core" game) despite the BOTH of them suffering from the same sort of problems that people have been mentioning since the 3DS era.
Well, that and mentioning that the lack of an Emerald-style Battle Frontier in ORAS was due to the amount of players that would've appreciated and used the area being minuscule and more players getting fed up with it and not being attracted to "demanding challenges.
And for those people saying to "give these games a chance" all I can really say is that The Pokemon Company and GF needs to start putting out demos for their games like they did for XY, ORAS, SM, and ironically enough LGPE.
@BetterThanVegas Well that has an easy answer: make some filler subjects for those pieces of adjacent media. I'm pretty sure we all remember the anime's Orange Island League season.
@mr-duster then we have different video game design standards.
As I said first, they shouldn’t had compared their Wild Areas to BotW in the first place.
For me they were as dull as a N64 era game. But hey, that wouldn’t be fair, even Ocarina of Time had better world-design and open areas than Sw/Sh.
But as I said, if you liked them, fine, we have different video game standards. I expect a bit more of design and creativity in the landscapes of my games.
@Otoemetry At no point in any of my comments did I ever say "you're wrong". Nobody is "wrong". It's called having an opinion for a reason. There is no right or wrong.
I AM capable of letting people have different opinions than my own. I disagree with them, yes, but that doesn't mean I'm not able to let them have their opinions.
But I will say that you're wrong for saying that I'm incapable of letting people have their opinions, because I AM, and that I told people they were wrong, because I DIDN'T. So STOP IT. I'm done with this.
@Meteoroid what do you mean? all they have do is upacale all the model they currently have as they basically future proof all their Pokémon model since X & Y any 3d artist can just extract the models from the 3ds and upscale it to full HD even 4K with 3rd party software, if a simple 3d artist can do that why can’t a 105 billion dollar worth Company can’t do the same if not more????? And like I said in a previous comment they can hire quadruple the development team that they have if they really want quality and efficiency on their development time…They have the Money and Resources.
@Meteoroid the problem with this argument is that Gamefreak are on record saying that they "future proofed" the 3d models of the Pokémon back on the 3DS, so they had HD models for every Pokémon (& forms etc) going back to gen 1 yet all of a sudden it was too much work to get these models onto Switch? I don't buy it, ironically.
I suspect the Dex cut was all in an effort to sell the DLC and Pokémon Home subscriptions, plus probably a bit to do with Gamefreak's incompetence when it comes to optimising their code.
As an RPG, Pokemon has barely any plot and in most games it only kicks in during the finale, usually between the 8th gym and E4. Basically only Gen 3, 4, 5 and 7 had storytelling, basic as it was but it was storytelling nonetheless.
And the plot wasn't so bad either, Gen 3 had us face two teams that wanted to reshape the earth because there wasn't enough space for pokemon and people, Gen 4 had us face a team that wanted to
reshape the universe because life was unfair and the universe would be better if there were no emotions, Gen 5 had us face a team that wanted monopoly of Pokemon and Gen 7 had the whole thing with Aether Foundation and Ultra Beasts.
Gen 8 plot is abysmal in comparison to that, "I will summon Eternatus to solve an energy crisis that might affect us 1000 years in the future".
@fafonio I disagree with that too. They obviously didn't feel like N64-style visuals to me, nor did they feel like they had superior or inferior open-world designs. Perhaps the world in Ocarina of Time were more open in terms of landscapes, but I can't say they're better or worse.
However, I am glad you get more enjoyment out of Ocarina of Time's level design that Pokemon Sword and Shield if it appeals to you more.
@mr-duster I never said visuals. I think that’s the point you’re missing.
@CielloArc I wouldn't call it "abysmal". The plot of summoning a dangerous creature in hopes of solving a problem, only to end up making it worse, is fairly traditional in the series. Chairman Rose had the best intentions, but as we know, the road to Hell is often paved with good intentions. The "Evil Is Not A Toy" trope.
Ahhh, where would we be without the self-entitled toxic gamer?
@mr-duster I really hope they deliver with legends arceus as ever since the move on Nintendo Switch the games they keep dishing are nothing but disappointments, especially how they butchered the Diamond and Pearl remakes really is the lowest of low for me.
@fafonio I mean, I know you're talking about level design. And I'm happy that Zelda's level design appeals to you more. It's for good reason.
@mr-duster you may not have said the words "you're wrong" but contradicting someone by saying "no it isn't" is basically the same just in different words.
Perhaps consider why you feel it necessary to forcefully contradict everyone you disagree with, Gamefreak don't care that you're here fighting their corner all it does it generate animosity in the community. Just accept that people will comment negatively about these games and if you feel the need to contradict them, don't.
@Dragonite89 Well, the recent games haven't been disappointments to me. Far from perfect, but they still kept my interest. As for the Diamond and Pearl remakes, I wouldn't say they "butchered" them. I'm going to have to try them out for myself to find that out.
@Otoemetry When I said "no it isn't", that means I don't agree with them. That's not the same as saying they're wrong. I'm not trying to be forceful, and I'm not fighting anybody's corner. I never wanted to take sides. I'm just a simple guy that wants to enjoy video games without being blasted by people for it. And I certainly don't want to be affected by any controversy either.
I've accepted that people have negative feelings on these games long ago. And I've been dealing with it for two years.
@Otoemetry To be you can have an opinion and still be wrong.
A lot of people angry are making claims that couldn't possibly be true. Like thinking Pokemon needs the National Dex when Sw/Sh proven that's not what people want from the games.
Pokemon is a massive series it'd be very easy to have the wrong idea of what if needs to be. Especially when it's done in spite of what is already proven by the games.
@Meteoroid I did say they were the outliers. No other Pokemon game has done this and I can only hazard a guess why. Probably something to do with AI programing being harder if they want them to be more competent. I don't think that would be easy to do now that there's 900 pokemon to strategize with. Look at Yu-Gi-Oh games on the DS. Some turns could take 3-5 minutes for the computer to make a move cause they had to parse every option they had available. This would infuriate Pokemon players to no end. I can see why they don't, but they still have proven they CAN, and that they can do it well. And they haven't said why, they just buried it under the rug and never talk about.
@Meteoroid They’re rich so they could afford to hire more competent and skilled developers if they want to, and how do you know “it doesn’t play nicely in every single model” do you develop for any mainline Pokémon games to have first hand experience? It’s not like a single developer is working these games, there are multiple people working on these all they gotta do is extract the previous model they already have, upscale it and do a few shadow and lighting touch ups, if a single modder can do that then there’s no excuse for them to not be able to do that. They could hire more people if they really want to make them faster and efficiently without losing quality, it’s not a ridiculous statement to make unless they really are being cheap and greedy.
@EVIL-C Gen 2 was a really good generation and absolutely one of my favourites too, I still look back on them fondly every time.
@mr-duster well to me ever since the move on the Nintendo Switch the games have been nothing more but lackluster and disappointments one after another, and them ruining the artstyle of Diamond and Pearl remakes which make them look like a cheap mobile game is just a new low for this cheap and greedy company…fingers cross that Legends Arceus actually delivers🤞
@Meteoroid I've googled it and there are too many articles discussing the whole thing for me to find the exact interview in which it was stated, but it's going back to either X/Y or Sun/Moon so it's probably buried beneath the mountains of discourse. If you don't think Gamefreak had ulterior motives to the Dex cut then I have a bridge to sell you 😜
Pokémon means a lot to people, obviously, and unfortunately that means we have comment sections like this one.
@mr-duster considering how dated the formula is and the uninspired art design I disagree.
Problem is, the problem he wanted to solve might happen, keyword there being might, and on top of that it might happen 1000 years from now.
That's how stupid it is, there was no need to summon Eternatus at all besides the fact plot needs to happen.
Fixing the plot is simple, just change 1000 to 10 years, show us how much areas unaffected by Galar particles are underdeveloped, like Spikemuth. Makes us understand why he wants to the stupid thing and why the urgency.
@Dr_Lugae oh absolutely opinions can be factually wrong, but for the most part what we have here is one person railing against anyone who doesn't like a game that they like. I understand having discourse but having a string of replies saying "no it isn't", "no it doesn't", or "it's not about that" one after the other really isn't how you go about having meaningful discourse, that's what's put my back up so much. But anyway I've got dinner to make now so I'm off
@CielloArc I think the arc is more about Rose's character than the actual urgency of the crisis.
His backstory and league cards portrays Rose as am ambitious glory-seeking guy who makes snap decisions without telling anyone and succeeding a big way. E.g. how he endorsed Unbeatable Champion Leon when he was unknown.
But in the game he endorses Bede with the idea he'll beat Leon and then be a New Champion who solves the energy crisis. He's pretty focused on Bede becoming Champion and collecting Wishing Stars.
But as soon as Bede gets disqualified it derailed Rose's ambitions. Its at that point Rose suddenly shifts straight to the energy crisis plan, the game even points out that it could have waited until after the Tournament.
He disrupts the tourname because if the player or Hop wins then Rose won't have endorsed the Champion who solved the energy crisis. So instead Rose's urgency(villainy) was to try and force a situation where HIS Champion(Leon) defeats Eternatus.
@mr-duster I know it's a meme, and it isn't the first time I've heard of it. I'm curious about where it originated. Everything has an origin after all.
I agree the fandom Took it to far, But I can't really defend a company that is like the Best selling IP in the world, And its to hard for yall to make the game look nice, on top of that lying to people about why you couldn't include the dex.
On one side, I think people took it to far, complaining about the trees was just hating on it at that point, But on the other hand I can understand why it might have, Not saying they should have, But I can see why that was the case.
@Meteoroid Just give me an easy normal and hard mode it shouldn't be that hard.
@HedgehogEngine The DLC was fine, but I found no incentive to play after beating the game. I just couldn't get into Wild Area and the events there.
@SmaggTheSmug Yet they only get voice acting for the mobile games like Pokemon Masters EX.
I would settle for games that aren't even easier than the Game Boy games that made the series a phenomenon in the first place. Pokemon was already supremely accessible, one of the most accessible in concept and execution in the whole RPG genre.
The changes made recently to force an EXP multiplier for your whole team, force unavoidable friendship bonuses like added crits and surviving knockout blows, and removing cave sequences and letting you switch out your team anywhere on the map, all serve to make the games completely frictionless. Even for an audience of children, which the originals also had.
If they want to design games for players to spend less time playing them, then players will spend less and less time with them and eventually stop justifying the purchase.
Here's the thing, they're just killing the game for older players.. accessibility is fine, the problem is its costing too much colateral when there's literally no reason to.
Dexit didn't need to happen, period... its lazy especially when they're just porting 1:1 models from USUM and the cut dex makes the game feel empty to anyone who actually played a pokemon game before in their lives. The DLC argument for adding more isn't good either and we still don't even have the full capacity of USUM. Balance was a complete and utter failure due to dynamaxing and still cutting counters while keeping broken mons.
Then they mess with the formats... 20 minute timer kills the games. It really really does.. thats why nobody streamed SWSH and the only people who do are high rank battle spot players but nobody cares about battle spot so their numbers aren't as good as your casual X/Y PSS battler. You cannot have a full battle without it being speedrunned before completion because a good 6v6 match involves a lot of predicting, setting up, switching, items, etc... this all doesn't fit in a 20 min window, aegislash with leftovers alone takes a full minute turn to use since animations are still counted in the timer.
They deserve the backlash, the problem is nobody is disciplined enough to vote with their wallet and buys it anyway, which is why the rom community is so massive rn. Every time I see 'all time high sales numbers!" it doesn't include the people that purchase, return, and play the rom instead if not just simple play the rom. TPC just isn't listening to the backlash, and i feel sorry for the employees that take the heat for the company that do know better, but just like the 'ben affleck' guy who quit and leaked SWSH, they should stand up for themselves a bit more.
You can't hide behind 'we want it to be accessible for everyone' when difficulty settings have been around since before Pokémon. Make your Sword & Shield difficulty for human vegetables, Normal, then Hard, with the trainers getting more Pokémon with better Movesets, AI, Levels, & some Items the higher the difficulty. Seriously, when did we get to the point where Gym Leaders having more than 3 Pokémon and their main one having a Sitrus Berry was 'too difficult'? Even children should be insulted with how dumb GameFreak things they are.
I'm only gonna add that a little transparency would have gone a long way. I am not gonna get into the arguments of difficulty and quality of the series. Valid points given on all fronts. But just on the Dexit issue alone, had they been transparent to start, it would have saved a lot of the furor and rage that occurred and continues to occur.
You would get no disagreement from me that some of the criticism goes beyond constructive and just plain blind rage, with no room to find the good in some of the stuff GF has put out.
Edit: By the way, I love the picture used for the article, lol
Came here just to read the comments
The average american makes 11 dollars an hour before taxes.
After taxes its closer to 8 something an hour.
A normal work day is 8 hours a day.
Meaning that in those 8 hours, one full work day, they make enough to buy ONE pokemon game.
Eight hours of their lives they can never get back.
So when they take those eight hours, in the form of 64 dollars, and exchange it for a buggy, unfinished, hastily thrown together cash grab of a game-- they have every right to be upset and complain about it.
"Game developers work hard!" So do people who buy their games. Difference is, the game dev on average makes way more money than the people they call toxic for having standards.
Can we please stop this toxic gratitude nonsense? You show your gratitude to the game dev when you buy the game and you continue that gratitude by buying future products as long as they continue to keep up that level of quality. There doesn't need to be any of this white knighting for game devs and anytime you put your work out there for the masses to pay for, you better be damn ready for criticism.
Especially if you release unfinished messes.
@Dragonite89 Well, I don't think it's a matter of "greediness" or "cheapness". And the artstyle was never ruined. The original artstyle still exists.
@Chunkboi79 "Dated"? "Uninspired"? No.
@CielloArc The reason he summoned Eternatus was to harness its energy to prevent that crisis. Whether it was 10 years or 1000, Rose didn't want it to happen at all.
@Tyranexx It's difficult to explain.
Fair enough they want to make the game accessible but at the same time can we get some form of challenge post game. And the fact that extra parts of the Pokédex had to be paid for with dlc. That's some of the reasons I'm really losing interest.
What do you expect? The hardcore Pokémon fanbase treats mandatory exp share like you shot their dog or something
I never got into coding or anything so honest question here that hopefully someone can answer:
How difficult would it be to add two options — exp share toggle, and two difficulty modes (thinking casual and master)?
The difficulty difference could be as simple as increasing all trainer pkm levels by a couple, or changing the odds of certain moves being used (eg when your HP is in the red and your foe uses growl, I mean come on!). Or even both?
Those seem so subtle but would vastly change the experience for some of the pokemon masters that have been playing for decades. Yet dont need to be turned on or selected to allow casual or new players to just play and breeze through.
Anyone with that sort of coding or developer knowledge, please comment. I'm honestly asking, as someone with no idea what it would take.
@Tott No idea myself, I brute force my way coding basic stuff, and usually just end up with a spaghetti code mess at the end. But Gamefreak has done it once before and plenty of rom hacks offer multiple experiences just by altering the code that’s already largely in place, so it’s very possible to do.
People, who're basically saying that they deserved it and victim blame are disgusting. Have you seen Pokemon "fans" online? They apparently feel so slighted that they spew vitriol at anyone. Not to mention all of the "Game looks better than Pokemon" takes, even with games that have nothing in common with Pokemon, like Odyssey or RFA of all things. Or they get compared to games like DQXI that have a lot less monsters than even SwSh after the Dex cut have.
People out there want that epic adventure with 1000 different types of monsters roaming the world. If it was that easy, where are those games then? I think GF should've stopped adding all Pokemon many gens ago.
Also when it comes to difficulty, Pokemon games leave you more options to keep the challenge difficult than many other RPGs. You can catch an underlevelled Pokemon with a type disadvantage to challenge a Gym. With most RPGs you don't have the option to make a completely different party once they're overlevelled. But I guess people want hand holding when it comes to difficulty. shrugs
The SwSh credits apparently include 1000 people. Also most of the money comes from merchandise not the games and is likely going back into merchandise.
From what I understand only LG Pokemon work in SwSh. When people added others it bugged out. The assumption is that their future-proofed models didn't work.
They should've cut the Dex a long time ago. None of the games that "have effort put into them", like Digimon, DQ, SMT, YW, MHS, seem to have anywhere near the amount of monsters.
It's blatantly obvious that the executives at TPC/Game Freak are just cheaping out and using casuals as a PR stunt. Anyone who's paying attention can see right through that excuse. For all of their "casualizations" they've done some low effort things to make the game more hardcore (such as making some of the battles tougher) and they've missed out on some things that would make the games better for casuals (such as graphical improvements). The demarcation point between what gets done and what doesn't get done in this series is how much time and effort it takes, as we've seen a lot of features on various points of the casual/hardcore spectrum get axed because they take too much work whereas most if not all of what they have included is low effort content. The criticisms are deserved, because this isn't the environment to cheap out on, a first party Switch game from a popular and high selling IP is expected to be AAA quality but Pokemon has come nowhere close.
@mr-duster it's the same rpg as it was 25 years ago and the world design looks like a PS2 game. Don't make me pull up screenshots
@mr-duster still white knighting Game Freak and Pokemon even though you said you "weren't" a few days ago... The thing is that you are not being aware of doing it. But your comments and the way people talk back at you prove it.
@Savage_Joe I'm not "white-knighting" anybody, and I'm fully aware of what I'm doing. The Pokemon Company has done a lot of questionable things in recent years, and their actions shouldn't go without some form of criticism. But there is such a thing as blowing things beyond proportion.
@Chunkboi79 No, it doesn't. I know what a PS2 game looks like. The textures in the recent games are smoother and have more of a shine to them than in a PS2 game. No need for screenshots, because I looked up images myself and compared them side-by-side.
And as for the whole "it's the same RPG game every 25 years", that isn't necessarily true. The Pokemon games aren't what you would call unpredictable, but they at least do something interesting with the context of each setting. Context is very important to consider.
Have they listened to their fans' feedback and criticism? That's the real question.
There's no arguing that developing a franchise worth billions is hard work and pressure-filled. But ignoring the fanbase and then demeaning them when they speak out against aspects of the product they paid for, rather than considering their words and applying them to the products that the both the publishers and the developers want these fans to continue buying, seems rather counterintuitive to quieting the fanbase's criticisms and also in keeping your loyal fanbase.
Getting upset about (rather than heartily considering) constructive feedback isn't a solution to lessening the amount of it. It just makes people more bitter at you and makes you (as well as the article writers making excuses for you) less credible.
I don't think the majority care how "grown-up" it is, but it's dumbed down so much, even for kids. We had to figure this crap out before some of us cpuld even read. Modern kids aren't as stupid as Pokémon seems to think they are
@Rin-go The people getting paid (for making many choices that their customers (ie, the ones that have paid them and have voluntarily promoted their products for them, for decades) have expressed constant distaste for) are victims?
Removed - inappropriate
@Savage_Joe it seems pointless to try to get him to show a bit of self awareness about how his behaviour comes across, he's spent 62 (and counting) comments on this article alone fighting with anyone who is critical of anything Pokémon related. It's quite sad really, I tried to explain why his arguments are hypocritical but... you can lead a horse to water as they say.
@Otoemetry No, I'm NOT. I'm not playing "Game Freak apologist". I'm fully aware of the company's questionable choices, and I want them to stop. I'm not fighting anyone who "dares question" the games. I'm DISAGREEING with their more outlandish statements. It's that simple.
Please just stop.
@Otoemetry You're really making me mad. I DO have self awareness. I know I've been debating with a lot of people here. I'm not an idiot. I don't need to hear you telling me what I already know.
I'll sympathize with any devs who have been put through crunch and tried to make the best of what they could with the given time and budget.
But a lot of the criticism are things that would have obviously been criticized. This is the 25th time "Difficulty" has been mentioned in the comment section. The games don't have to be legitimately difficult, but they have failed to be engaging for anyone who knows the bare-bones of how the battle mechanics work. It feels like a Mario game letting you win because you learned how to jump in place and leaves it to the online competitive community to learn about wall jumping.
I'm pretty sure most people would have been fine with Dexit if there was something in return. Visuals aren't everything, but they aren't nothing either. I would take ass few as 300 Pokemon if it meant better visuals, better level design, and a more involved storyline.
It's not all for naught. Legends Arcues has been getting it's fair share of criticism, but not nearly to the extent of what Sw/Sh received the summer before it's launch. Even the most basic shake-ups and improvements will let people be more forgiving of the franchise's faults.
Over/Under on whether or not there will be a mouse cursor on the opening screen and flying across the credits screen in Legends Arceus like there was in SwSh? I think there was a third mouse cursor hanging out in the Isle of Armor direct, too.
The games never needed to be more accessible. They need to say it plainly. The games are hugely popular. Spending more won’t increase sales.
They deserve every bit of legitimate criticism they get, the Pokemon games have been creatively bankrupt outside of creature designs for a long time.
Also that's a load of bull about making the core accessible to everyone. The games have been kids games right from the start with gen 1, and kids had plenty of fun with them. They do not need dumbing down any further.
If people want grown up and darker stories then boy do I have series I'd like to introduce you to. One of them actually released today
I think the problem is more with the fanbase sorry to say... the Internet echo chamber makes people start believing that the opinions of a given collective are what hold sway over a company. When in fact they can create whatever they like and are not beholden to anyone in particular (outside of the business structure) and can/should create with impunity. The older generation of Pokemon fans start to feel like they own the franchise and all the games should be catered to a specific legacy. I think the Pokemon Company recognizes (perhaps rightly) that the primary audience for their games will always be the youth. Retaining a hold on adults is inevitable especially when parents buy what they remember enjoying and give it to their kids. But I think it's too much to expect this company to cater to an audience it hasn't served for a long time.
I don't see the issue here. If you're doing a s*** job, you're going to get angry criticism. Playing through the leaked game showed me that despite the amount of complaints they got from SWSH, they're still not improving. The idea of "making something accessible" doesn't mean jack when your series is already one of the highest grossing franchises on the planet.
Here's a list of features people wanted, yet they haven't been implemented:
This franchise has been on a steady decline since Gen 6, but it's a complete joke now
As far as the disheartening comment goes, that's sort of the point.
People who are giving up on the series have become disheartened, too. In many cases, one has played a mainline pokemon game enough times to feel as though nothing is really changing. And while each game tends to experiment with a unique thing, even that doesn't always feel particularly different.
For some, it seemed like pokemon's limitations on the Gameboy were hardware based, and many of us thought the series would grow and change -more- as technology grew and changed.
Is it bad to say that the main series is what it always has been? No. There is always an audience for it. Is it bad to say that some people playing it consistently for 20 years expected a different evolution of the series as they grew and changed? No. Many are just ready to move on.
I actually prefer pokemon's side games now over the main ones. I'm not looking forward to the re-release of diamond and pearl, even though Piplup is in it (so cute). I AM looking forward to trying out Arceus.
The series can't possibly give those that are ready for a change exactly what they want, because we all want something different (I've wanted a true open world pokemon game since the wii. A lot of fans DON'T want that). So we either have to appreciate what changes pokemon is willing to experiment with, or admit that it's time to move on.
It's no one's fault, and it really is that simple.
It kind of depends how the game was coded. We're all taught to code things in a very structured way, but in practical application, it doesn't always come out that way.
If it was even remotely structured, however, the "increase all trainers by two levels" shouldn't be that hard. As for the "growl in the red" comment, that may be harder.
It seems likely the programmers either randomized attacks with a percentage likelihood of a given attack type, i.e. "damage attacks used 60% of the time" or used a finite state machine, i.e. when a monster is below 30% health, use a berry. If no berry exists, use a healing skill. If no healing skill exists, but enemy is weak, use an attack, etcetera.
But either option gets complicated fast. ignoring type weaknesses, and even which pokemon it is (imagine, hypothetically, how complicated this would be if you had to construct a decision tree for each pokemon with every version of moves), if a pokemon decides to attack, then which attack should it use, if it has multiple damage attacks?
Sure, the programmers could write a general pattern for ALL pokemon (and they probably did), but it wouldn't be a perfect fit for each pokemon, and it would probably still include a small random for a different outcome.
If you have 80% of your health, or more, attack 90% of the time, prioritizing the strongest of your attacks (if it has pp left) 75% of the time. If you randomly choose not to attack (the other 10% of the time), favor a status effect move (if you have one) over healing, with a start boosting self effect 50% of the time and a start diminishing enemy effect the other 50%, otherwise use a healing skill.
I haven't even begun to account for any real depth of strategy, yet, or for what pokemon this is. If difficulty redefined this patten, it could get super complicated, very fast.
It could still be done, mind you, but it would get potentially complicated.
One could probably make a pretty good, general purpose finite state machine using a form of a.i. called a genetic/evolutionary algorithm. But using one form of a.i. to set up the basis of another form of a.i. (with no guarantee that the coder set up the genetic algorithm properly), would seem overly complicated for most coders on a project that's probably already pretty complicated.
@13AM_Alex Pokémon is for kids is the kind of cluelessness I expect from my parents last century.
@Sora181 You're wrong there. Pokemon is popular and one of the best sellers but its sales do vary and even slump and it only recently came back from an almost 2 decade slump.
Demands for the National Dex are only backed by anger but not results
The critical reception and sales over the year point to the National Dex not mattering.
It's not the kind of thing they should focus on if the goal is to get as many players as possible playing. Especially considering as the number of Pokemon increase the amount of work requires for this 1 feature gets bigger.
If its not making the game something more players can enjoy then the work/effort is better spent elsewhere.
@Dr_Lugae …So did you miss everything else I said? National Dex missing is only one part of the problem. Also what slump are you talking about? The sales for the series have been consistently hitting over 20 million units, and that was also during the era where pirating DS games were easy as pie.
Also your argument doesn’t make sense. If they’re not going to put that effort towards giving us features that the past games had that were also well liked, where’s that effort going? This new title looks like a Unity project, because guess what? It is
@13AM_Alex It's a video game. Stop losing sleep over a video game- one that's for kids!
I bet that if they did a survey it would be found that most Pokemon players are NOT kids. Especially where a remake of a 14 year old game is concerned.
Also, why do you think kids deserve lower quality products?
@Sora181 Nat Dex was an example I'd just be repeating myself for the other points.
There's only 3 Pokemon games that have sold over 20 million:
Red/Blue - 30million
Gold/Silver - 24 million
Sword/Shield - 23 million (and rising)
Every other main game has sold in the 15-17 million range including on the DS, a slump which spanned from 2003 to 2017. To put in perspective how much it slumped LGPE may end up outselling Black/White.
The effort is going towards content like the Pokemon Camp, Wild Area, etc. Creating more reasons for more players to play.
What doesn't make sense is thinking that Pokemon needs all the features from its slump. If they didn't pull it out of the slump then then there's no ground to stand on in saying it needs them now.
That's why I say its backed by anger and not results.
While I do commend The Pokémon Company for standing their ground against the wide range of opinions and backlash, I'm also disappointed by the irony behind their development. Being the company behind the largest media franchise in the world, wouldn't you think that all this money could've massively improved development of mainstream Pokémon games? It's almost as if GameFreak was an indie developer studio at this point. Instead, we get games that don't necessarily meet the quality of their predecessors AND games that clearly aren't meant for Switch hardware.
I think most fans would be happy with them just sticking a hard mode in with no exp share and higher level trainer fights.
That's a bare minimum that would let me enjoy myself, would hurt the ability for it to accessible to everyone and I couldn't imagine it would take very long to do.
@Dr_Lugae Are you not counting the 3rd versions that came out? The only games that didn’t reach that number was X & Y, but it had the Gen 3 remakes the pick up the slack.
Also those “other reasons to play” either super simple or something that’s already existed. Camp? It’s Pokemon amie, but you can throw a ball and make some curry in like two seconds. Wild Area? An unoptimized patch of nothing. If that’s effort, then they’re not doing a good job.
I really don't think Game Freak gets it. They seem completely outside the realm of the actual feedback we've been providing
They could try something new.
It is annoying to see Game Freak make seemingly less effort, lie and come up with excuses instead of solving the problems that lead to them making unpolished products.
They should either hire more people, they can definitely afford it as thry are not a small indie game developer and make a LOT of money every year, from movies, games, collectibles and toys.
Or if they don't want to get a bigger team, go back to school for a bit to learn the modern tech stuff.
Or they could ask Nintendo for a team to help them polish the game to make it look nicer on the switch, they are literally one of Nintendo's biggest exclusives and I doubt Nintendo would refuse to help them.
But I gotta admit I'm hopeful for BDSP and Legends Arceus.
BDSP is being developed by a different company and their trailers show significant changes that makes them look better between each one compared to Game Freaks early and late trailers that look almost exactly the same.
Hopefully Game Freak will be able to produce a more polished game now that they can focus on Legends Arceus. I can only hope for the best.
I hardly got into Pokémon Red, Blue, Yellow, X, Y, Moon, Let’s Go Pikachu, Let’s Go Eevee, Sword & Shield because of RPGs in general with me.
Now it’s difficult to go into, and play Pokémon more than ever because fans constantly an aneurism because expectations for said game weren’t met when a new game is announced.
Even back then; I knew dexxit was overblown.
I insert a quote from Lockstin about “ Suck and Mega Suck” but I forget what is was exactly…
The biggest reason I feel people harp on the devs a lot is because of all the stripping of features from the Pokemon games over the years and the introduction of features people don't want or need. I mean Berry growing is gone. Pokeball making is gone. Contests, Secret Bases, minigames in general are just gone. That's fine. But when you take away beloved features to enhance gameplay, it's expected you replace these features with something equally enjoyable. We are not expecting the same thing every time, we are expecting something good and fun. Minigames is a staple of the Pokemon series. I mean the Safari Zone and Game Corner in gen 1. Bug Catching Contest in gen 2. Pokemon Contests and Secret Bases, and Battle Frontier in gen 3. Underground, Pokemon Contests/Pokeathlon, Battle Frontier gen 4. Battle Subway, PWT, Pokestar Studios, Join Avenue in gen 5.
Yet in later games they took these features away without replacing them. They didn't give a new fresh element of gameplay along with the story, which has been a reason why they didn't keep features in from game to game. They want to keep the games fresh with new features but they don't add these features. X and Y and Sword and Shield are the biggest culprits.
There is also one glaring feature they keep throwing down our throats they many people hate: FORCED exp share. Red/Blue/Yellow/Green were the first games to introduce an exp all game but in gen 2 the became a held item and stayed that way until X and Y. In those games, it became exp all again but was optional. You could turn it on or off depending on how you wanted to play. Same in Sun and Moon and Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. Let's Go became the first game to force it as an option but it made sense considering the gameplay and the way to gain experience. In Sword and Shield though, it made 0 sense to not have this optional for fans and now we come to learn it's back in Diamond and Pearl remakes. This is not something fans want and is a controversial issue.
So if devs are exhausted and been through a lot, why not just make a good game? Why not make some things optional like that exp all? Fans aren't asking for impossible standards (most of us anyways). We just want to be heard. The direction the series is going is not a good one. It's ignoring older fans to cater to newer ones and banking on the fact older fans will still purchase the games out of dedication. So if any of those devs are reading this, which I doubt, you need to go back to Pokemon's roots and build up from there. Pokemon has changed a lot in the last decade and it's not for the better. All we are getting is a stripped down bare bones version of the series we have come to love. So write a good story, make better teams then Team Yell (literally pointless. Team Skull had more depth despite being dumb. The story around Skull was sad and hit home but you really felt something for them though), give us back those minigames, make better quality of life decisions, and for the love of God make exp all optional. There is absolutely no reason why this cannot and should not be a thing.
If Pokemon was strictly managed by Nintendo we’d probably get games of a much higher quality than what we currently get. You can say what you want about Nintendo but when it comes to their core entries in their biggest franchises they give them all the time they need.
GameFreak should just take a good amount of time to make the next core entries and let other studios make remakes and spin offs (including games like Arceus) while they focus on one project. I know it seems like that’s what’s happening now with BD/SP farmed out to another studio but they’re still making Arceus and will presumably move on to the next core games right after that and try to get them out as soon as they can. They spread themselves so thin and leave themselves with such truncated dev cycles and I don’t understand why.
Interesting — thank you for explaining!
It seems like the more likely "increase all pokemon by 2-3 level" option would be simple. Which in combination with a toggle exp share could in itself be a decent increase to difficulty. The ai portion, or general algorithm, I see could be much different.
If they could do a blanket update (assuming the current code is across all foes and an IFTT style) to have an "if player pkm health <15% then attack move 90% status 10% or whatever, that could help. But still, I am not trying to propose any crazy drastic changes to mechanics.
My whole point was I hope there's a relatively easy way to increase the difficulty if the player desired. And you've made it sound like that is likely possible without months of additional work — so thank you!
@Dr_Lugae Eh, battles taking place in "safe spots" isn't really that novel an idea, there's been some of that every once in a while, and it's really like having dungeons (in Pokemon's case, gyms) taking place in the towns moreso than battles themselves.
Pokemon's issues have been more an inability to improve the game with time and technology. Despite 25 years and mobile technology being infinitely more capable than what the GB could do, they've stuck with a lot of the same conventions that existed at the time. I will give them some credit, they've made some steps in this direction with SwSh and Legends Arceus (changes like overworld Pokemon battles, more open region design, seamless transitions at the start of battles, experiments with the battling mechanics to bring it closer to real time battling are the kinds of changes Pokemon has sorely needed), but there's still some areas that need improvement (multiple difficulty modes, NG+ modes, larger game worlds with more content, the return of more complex and puzzling game design, more MMO type gameplay and game modes, and less rigid storylines would be great next steps).
@Anti-Matter The issue is that a lot of the older games had more extra sidequests and content and the region design was freer and more complex and puzzling. The older games felt a bit more like say, 2D Zelda where there was a lot more exploration, a lot more figuring out where to go and how to navigate the game worlds, and there were a ton more sidequests and minigames that gave you much more to do. The newer games have stripped a lot of this away, the regions feel more like linear hallways (they have started to reverse course a bit with the Wild Area in SwSh and Legends Arceus being close to open world) and there's much less extra content, so the games feel less substantial now.
There's also been a perceived decrease in difficulty due to them making it much easier to level up (the Exp. Share being always on is a particularly big sticking point) and the team designs and A.I. seemingly getting easier.
I prefer easier Pokemon games since i am casual gamer and not really a huge fan of Pokemon franchise so the Pokemon games on 3DS and Switch are easy enough for me for someone who have never played Pokemon games before.
I don't really fuzzy about the things from previous Pokemon games (the quest, the Blah Blah Blah things that made the game more difficult) since I never knew what are they, I just play the games very casually, get some Pokemons i have interest about, beat the gym leaders as I followed the storyline without thinking too much about missing things from previous Pokemon games.
I personally still prefer Yokai Watch games than Pokemon games for having more natural storyline and 3 vs 3 Battle.
And that's because this generation of people are entitled cry [email protected]
@BetterThanVegas @Meteoroid The problem with BW2's difficulty options is that they implemented them in the most convoluted way possible. The difficulty modes only unlocked when you beat the game and even then, the extra modes were version exclusive (Black 2 got Challenge Mode, White 2 got Easy Mode). If you wanted to start the game with them, you had to have a friend that you could communicate local with (you couldn't do this over Wi-Fi) who had beaten Black 2 already to send you the key to unlock Challenge Mode. Needless to say, not a lot of people were able to take advantage due to these restrictions and so there were a lot of complaints about this. Unfortunately, instead of taking the logical approach and changing it so you could access difficulty options at the start without any restrictions, they just thought "Welp, guess people don't want difficulty options since they're complaining" and removed them completely. Instead of complaining about "Why don't the games have difficulty modes?" we should be asking them "Why do they think difficulty modes have to be locked behind a stupid key gimmick?" because clearly for some inexplicable reason they think that's the only way to implement difficulty modes despite being the most useless and needlessly complicated way to go about it.
@Bolt_Strike You're right. It's been so long I forgot. I also probably just used an AR code to start the game with one. Just another example in their long list of terrible decisions.
Setting aside the "toxic" point (the odd bad apple does not preclude the company from being criticized — there is plenty on the opposite side that you will never see mentioned in an article like this one), it may be helpful for those who don't understand why many fans feel the way they do about the Pokémon games to identify what is wrong with them by looking at the stances held by those who, to both their credit and detriment, vehemently defend these products from criticism on the internet:
"TPC never promised Sword and Shield would have Breath of the Wild-like world design/graphics." "The games don't look bad, they look OK/fine." "It's OK if this feature or that feature isn't in the game, it's OK if the game doesn't let you do this or that." "Who wants to play a hard game anyway? The games don't need to be challenging." "Being simplistic is OK." "The story isn't bad, who plays the games for their stories anyway?" "It's OK if they don't look as good or play as well as other games being made today on the same platform." "Who cares if the game isn't great? It's targeting children, it doesn't need to be good." "Who cares if the game forces you to do x y or z? You can always just ignore parts of a game you just spent $90+ to play. You can always just not look too closely at the small details."
These are not stances fans of the most valuable IP in the world should even be taking in the first place. Consumers, at least ideally, are not ordinarily in the habit of playing a video game to not look at the small details or take in the story. "They never promised the game would be x," — the fact that they aren't promising and successfully delivering ambitious new developments befitting an IP more valuable than Star Wars is the key problem. The Pokémon series has incredibly high potential and all the resources in the world and then some to realize it. Despite that, the series not only consistently fails to realize that potential, but becomes steadily worse and increasingly, aggressively more expensive with each product, while bolstering software sales figures by tapping into the Chinese market (as of 2019). It is the video game equivalent of dealing with a normally charming school dropout who is capable of curing cancer while they do nothing with their life, constantly ask you for cash, and watch reality TV 24/7.
As with many things in these post-democratic, post-consumer times — a time when politicians don't actually have to earn votes to win elections and products no longer have to be good or even acceptable to make money — all the broken sales records and all the excuses in the world do little to hide the lack of passion and creative ambition.
@Dr_Lugae That's not really how data analysis works, the games that didn't hit 20+ aren't really considered a "slump" if the majority of them are in that range. Conversely, the three above 20+ million would be considered outliers, high performers that sold above the typical range of sales.
Furthermore, in order to make meaningful decisions based on the sales data, they have to identify different factors behind the sales results besides just what's in the game and what's not in the game. Most likely (and we can't really prove this without the data itself, which TPC won't share to anyone that's not working on the games), the reasons behind those sales do come from different factors. RB and GS likely sold well because Pokemon was a fad, it was the hip cool new thing at the time and so there were a lot of bandwagon fans that jumped on and got bored of it and moved onto other things. Meanwhile, SwSh is probably selling well due to the Switch effect, where many of Nintendo's 1st party games are seeing record breaking sales due to the insane success of the Switch. Unless the Switch effect can continue on into next gen (which history tells us probably not, but we'll see), the levels of sales of those three games are unsustainable and the 15-17 million range is a much more realistic expectation for the next generation (with maybe 9th gen as a 4th outlier if it releases on Switch).
So no, the reasoning "these games didn't sell as well, so we shouldn't include their features" doesn't really make much sense and their thinking shouldn't be that simplistic. Some of the features in the lower selling games may have been well liked and some of the features in the higher selling games may have not been, there's not enough publicly available data to tell.
@SmaggTheSmug Yes, that's a good tactic for when they want to make radical changes to a formula but they're worried that players won't like the changes and the series' sales might tank as a result. And usually if it's successful, it ends up a running subseries of the original, good examples of this are the sandbox Mario games and the Metroid Prime series. Legends has the potential to be something similar, and it seems like they're expecting it by giving it the subtitle of Legends: Arceus, opening the door for future Legends games taking place in other regions.
@Bolt_Strike There's a number of Switch series which haven't substantially increased like Kirby, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware.
As mentioned before the Switch is successful but the Nintendo DS was phenomenally so to the point it may be out of reach for the Switch. It had software sell 20-30million. But not Pokemon.
My interpretation is that on better selling systems sales CAN increase but they're not actually guaranteed to rise unless developers actually do something to attract new players or if they were purely restricted by the old hardware(e.g. Mario Kart 8).
If BOTW was just another Ocarina of Time style Zelda would it have seen the same level of sales it does? Is the fact Kirby Star Allies is so similar to Triple Deluxe the reason it barely sold more?
My main point is not whether the features are liked. I'm responding with scepticism to the claims that the gen 3-7 features are what Pokemòn needs.
If GF's aim is to make a game as many players as possible can enjoy. They'd be better off prioritising new features and ideas that might get more people playing than old features that didn't move the dial
@Dr_Lugae If you want to think about it that way then you should think through logically what features would or wouldn't fit the characteristics and vision of what Pokemon is and what some of the other high selling games are. Looking at several of the highest selling Switch games, they seem to have several of the following characteristics:
-Large quantity and variety of content that covers various aspects of the gameplay
-Large, explorable game world
-Multiplayer focused game
Pokemon most likely fit this because it was a multiplayer focused and because they made the game world larger with the Wild Area.
Now in terms of which features to keep and which to remove, again they need to break the formula down into different gameplay elements and then find content that fits those elements. So for Pokemon's gameplay formula breaks down as follows and how well they seem to be doing on each element based on general fan perception
-Exploring the overworld: They've opened the game world up and gone more open world, which is good, but there's still a few complaints that the game world is too small, the design is too simplistic/not puzzling enough, and once you've explored an area, there really isn't that much else to do. Plenty of room for improvement here.
-Catching Pokemon: In general they have hundreds of Pokemon to collect and a large variety of encounter methods, the main issue here is with Dexit. I think they're mostly fine here, but more facilities and gadgets for special encounter methods couldn't hurt.
-Training Pokemon: They've introduced a lot of different QoL features to make this easier than ever and I can't think of any issues here. I think they're good here.
-Battling Pokemon: Mainly focuses on the storyline and competitive, not really enough going on here. They've stripped away many of the facilities and battling styles that had unique mechanics (such as the Battle Frontier, Triple Battles, Rotation Battles, Inverse Battles, etc.) and low difficulty has been a regular complaint for several generations now. More battling facilities and a formal difficulty system are sorely lacking.
-Trading and interacting with other players: Most of the basics are there, but they could stand to add more social interaction features.
@Dr_Lugae Part 2 because my comment was too long:
So as far as potential solutions in terms of new features or features they could bring back, I would suggest the following:
Exploring- Make the region bigger, add sidequests to encourage more exploration (they seem to have tinkered with this and seem to be continuing with the research tasks in LA, but the rewards haven't been meaningful enough to be effective), add a sidequest/facility with short, puzzling dungeons that are rotated daily (think something like the Trick House meets Mirage Spots)
Catching Pokemon- Again mostly fine, but the Dexnav was highly praised for making it extremely accessible to find Pokemon with the IVs, natures, abilities, etc. that you wanted. This should be brought back (at least in terms of functionality if not in name, if they want to bring this back and call it something else I don't think anyone will complain).
Training Pokemon- Nothing I can think of, this is good.
Battling Pokemon- The Battle Frontier is sorely needed, bring it back but have new facilities that are more casual friendly and more resemble styles like Triple, Rotation, and Inverse Battles. Bringing back Challenge Mode and making it available from the start is a must(you should just choose your difficulty while you're choosing your name, gender, appearance and all of those other start of the game options).
Trading and interacting with other players- Camp is fine, but needs a bit more social interaction than "let's play with Pokemon". I think the biggest thing it could use is a decoration feature of some sort along the lines of Secret Bases.
Do that and I think you see a lot less complaints from fans about the games lacking content and missing features from past games.
Quite funny how a game franchise that appears to be aimed at kids has most of its fans be teens and adults and those same people be the ones to complain.
Removed - inappropriate language
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