
Earlier today we reported that another impressive-looking fan-made Metroid game — a 2D reimagining of Metroid Prime this time — has been shut down after the makers received an inevitable cease-and-desist communique. Nintendo wasn't specifically named, but there are no prizes for guessing the "certain games-related company" which has put the brakes on this project.
It's a story we've heard various times over the years, perhaps most memorably with AM2R, a 2016 fan-made remake of the Game Boy's Metroid II: Return of Samus in a 16-bit Super Metroid style. Nintendo's own remake of that game — MercurySteam's Metroid: Samus Returns — was in development at the time and launched the very next year, but even if that hadn't been the case, the lack of a similar project being developed internally wouldn't have altered Nintendo's response to a game that uses the company's characters and intellectual property being made available, regardless of the quality. In fact, the quality and resulting confusion it could create — did Nintendo make this? — could conceivably draw even closer scrutiny from the Shuntaro Furukawa's legal team.

Despite the fact that we've been here many times before, there's inevitably a reaction from a group of fans that Nintendo is being overly litigious, unnecessarily fussy, and even downright spiteful when it comes to closing down fan projects or withdrawing support. The company has an uneasy relationship with the Smash Bros. fanbase, for instance, and pulled its support for a tournament that was using a modified version of Super Smash Bros. Melee.
We'd argue that the reason Nintendo gets so antsy about fan games is quite clear — not only will the company want to 'protect' its IP and reputation by avoiding associations with projects it hasn't personally developed or vetted, but it must also be seen to be discouraging and seeking to prevent copyright infringements in an active manner or risk leaving itself vulnerable in future legal disputes. Turning a blind eye in a single case sets a precedent that opens the door to copyright headaches down the line with other potentially more egregious projects.
Nintendo must also be seen to be discouraging and seeking to prevent copyright infringements in an active manner or risk leaving itself vulnerable in future legal disputes
This doesn't console frustrated fans who view cease-and-desists as unnecessary actions against fan communities who are expressing love for Nintendo's games and characters. The most passionate developers invariably aren't seeking to profit monetarily, so why shut down these projects?
Nintendo's approach stands in stark contrast to Sega's relaxed stance with Sonic fan games, that's for sure. In fact, a Sega rep went as far as saying that when it comes to fan-made Sonic art and games, "so long as no profit is involved, there is usually no issue". Sega and Nintendo are very different companies with very different outlooks and business interests, but it's a one-for-one comparison for many fans. You could argue that the existence of the Mario Maker games tacitly acknowledges and taps into the enthusiasm for fan-made content, but those aren't going to satisfy everyone and there's no sign of a Zelda or Metroid Maker on the horizon.
It's a complicated situation and certainly one that causes friction between Nintendo and a section — a most vocal and enthusiastic section — of its fanbase. There's a compelling argument that Nintendo is , in fact, displaying considerable lenience in allowing projects to come to fruition before releasing the hounds. After all, AM2R might be unavailable on the creator's website, but the internet is the internet; once it's out, that genie ain't going back in the tube of worms. You know this, we know this, and Nintendo knows this.
If you want to play the completed AM2R right now, there are ways and means. There's also wisdom in the idea expressed in the tweet below:
We'd certainly dispute the notion that reporting on fan games is the sign the legal eagles are waiting for to swoop into action (a demo for Prime 2D launched way back in April, remember), but the fact is that once a project is in the public space, it's only a matter of time before it gets large enough to draw attention. The team behind Prime 2D had been working for four years, and the results speak for themselves, but knowing how Nintendo has reacted in the past, posting a demo prior to completion was always going to be risky — the statement released by the team acknowledges this, but says "it was the right choice for our team, and we do not regret it".
The frustration at seeing such a promising-looking project nixed before completion is understandable, but the regularity with which Nintendo's legal department sends out cease-and-desists is the subject of memes now. Regardless of your opinion, is anyone really surprised by this outcome?

Let us know your thoughts on Nintendo's approach to shutting down fan projects like Prime 2D in the poll below.
Comments 283
protecting their IP is one thing... but going after fan projects like comes off as greed and cowardice. like they're afraid someone will give fans what they want, rather than the usual Nintendo brand drip-feed of content.
Nintendo has seemingly forgotten the days of offering reverse engineer hackers a job making Star Fox, and that's sad.
it feels so misguided to defend such heavy-handed decisions from a major corporation. defending a multi-billion dollar company won't make it friendlier to anybody, not even to you.
I don't ever play any of these fan made projects so it doesn't bother me that they are shut down really. It sucks for the developers who put time into making the games but they must have known the risks when they started development, Nintendo has being doing this stuff for a long time now, right or not.
You don't get to take the likeness and image of someone else's IP and use it as your own. It doesn't matter if Nintendo is heavy handed or not. Anyone that thinks it's reasonable is living in a dream world. You can't make your own game with characters that look like Batman, or Frozen, or Game of Thrones, just because you want to. There's a million Metroid-like games out there not using art that tries to be Metroid. These guys easily could have made one and had a real game to sell that's their own rather than riding on a famous product.
They probably would have offered better value than $60 Dread, to boot!
Anyone working on a project like this ought to know by now that you don't show off a single bit of it until it is done.
@NEStalgia Do you think fanfiction has the right to exist?
"As long as they're not profiting, fans should be able to make and distribute whatever they like"
Really? So, if this were true, I could make a game of mario doing drgs and Nintendo wouldn't be able to take it down?
Nintendo own their IPs. If they want they want to shutdown fan projects, they have the power to do so. The public may not agree, but nothing we can do about it.
@1ofUs Well, from a moral standpoint, yes. You should be allowed to make your Mario drug game as long as it doesn't actively promote and glorify hard drugs - and if it does, that's not Nintendo's problem but instead the problem of whatever site hosts the game.
It’s no different from fan fiction. You can’t write this off with whataboutism about how they’ll make porn parodies or hard drugs and such, as you take the rough with the smooth (literally). I’ll defend the right for people to write really unsavoury fan fiction of Sonic and Shadow in the prison showers because I don’t have to read it. Fans should have a right to this stuff if they aren’t profiting. Taking them down feels rather heavy handed for what’s really harmless.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Nintendo should take a page from SEGA's playbook and let these people make their fan games, and maybe even hire some so maybe we can get a new F-ZERO game or a new Mother game. I thought Cadence of Hyrule was their way of easing into that idea, but clearly, they only pretend to be interested in letting small studios handle their IP's.
EDIT: I think I can kind of see why Nintendo would do this though. They are on the cusp of releasing the first new 2D Metroid in 18 years, and maybe they see an impressive 2D recreation of Metroid Prime as a potential threat to that. Maybe they don't want a fan game to jeopardize the sales of their own game, but I would argue that issuing a takedown for that game would have the same effect on Metroid Dread, maybe to a greater extent, and they probably shot themselves in the foot here. I'm still buying Metroid Dread, but I can imagine this probably upset a lot of people, enough for them to not want to support Metroid Dread's release.
I don't know if this happened with Samus Returns, but I imagine at least some people decided not to buy that game because Nintendo shut down AM2R, despite the fact that that game's creator encouraged people to buy Samus Returns. I don't know how close to completion 2D Metroid Prime was, but I doubt people were going to not buy Metroid Dread just because it exists. As much as it is within Nintendo's rights to take down the fan game, I think they need to identify when these actions will have the most negative repercussions, and maybe, just maybe, postpone such decisions until it can have the least impact on their own sales. But what do I know? I'm just a spectator in all this lol.
I don't care for fan feelings. Make your own game. Loads of indie developers have and are succesful with it, DESPITE the obvious likeness to Nintendo's IP. They even might have started out as 'fan games' before switching things up and making it know publicly. Blossom Tales is Zelda but with original graphics and music, so is Baldo and loads of others.
Another thing is that Smash Bros. Melee thing. Nintendo probably also shut that thing down because of the many creeps and pedos in that niche community. Wasn't this exposed some time ago? Nintendo must have suspected.
I kinda wish you didn’t make this article, because all you’re doing is opening Pandora’s box for people who hate Nintendo. As if that wasn’t already done with the first article about this, now you had to make another one days later. So thanks for that…
But regarding my stance, yeah I don’t agree with it. I wish Nintendo took a different route regarding fan games, but at the same time, I’m not going to hate Nintendo, and call them and their fans names like so many other people here have been doing. I can acknowledge Nintendo’s flaws while still loving them. My criticisms of Nintendo come from a place of love for them, not hate. Too bad people online just refuse to accept that line of thinking, and instead resort to insulting Nintendo and all of its fans. If someone you were friends with did something wrong, would do you think turning on them and calling them names would be the correct route to take? That might not be the perfect analogy, but it explains my stance on this in layman’s terms. I have just as much of a right to be a loving fan of Nintendo just as much as haters online have a right to make complete bungholes of themselves.
I think all game companies should bless it to be honest.
Maybe contact the folks that made it and have them put in some disclaimer or a link to Nintendo.com or something but I don't see the harm.
I have no clue if all companies are like this or just Nintendo. Has anyone made a fan version of Ratchet and Clank or Halo or anything? If so did they get tore down too?
I mean let's face it. This thing (and AMR2 before) are NOT competing with the new Metroid coming out. It's apples and oranges when you look at the comparisons. N's stuff is just better. Like Ferrari being angry at someone for putting a lookalike kit on their Fiero. Sure it's interesting (if done well) but no one is mistaking it for a real Ferrari.
Nintendo hates their fans. Always has, Always will. It's like deep down they wish they were still making card games, and resent having to go into the video game industry to stay in business
I love fan stuff.
I was a big fan of the Mario bros Z series lol, watched them all.
@Clarice Ah yes, I forget Nintendo are the nonce patrol now. Bloody hell, talk about an absolutely tone-deaf argument. Let’s just get rid of TV, movies, the entire games industry, Manchester City, the planet Earth because there’s pedos and creeps there.
@nessisonett As someone who draws a lot of very unsavoury fanart, I can tell you for a fact people who have a problem with lewd or fetish fan art are just looking for someone socially acceptable to hate on. They don't care about "protecting the children" or "respecting the characters' creators" they just want a punching bag they won't be called out for creating long-term damage to.
I get it but it sucks. It'd be cool if Nintendo celebrated fan projects especially if they're not making new games in said franchise. And even if they were making games in that series, highlighting the passion of fan-made projects could help bring the fan base closer together and foster enthusiasm for when they do decide to make a new game.
I wonder of fan fiction is different because it's a different market. That was kinda how the Apple vs Apple Music lawsuit ended. Apple could keep theur name because they are a different market.
That said, fans should know better than just use IP and not expect a C&D happening. More so because Nintendo only cares when you use their trademark and IP. I am literally playing a game called Coromon. Kept calling it Pokémon because well honestly that's what it is. Just without the lifting of Nintendo stuff
I love fan projects. But I also understand where Nintendo are coming from. Depending on the territory, it's sometimes required that companies legally enforce their copyrights or risk losing them in future disputes. Nintendo has always struck me as a pretty conservative company, so my guess is this is what's driving their thinking on it.
To allow fan projects to be run while still maintaining the public/legal posture of protecting their copyright, they'd have to set up some sort of registration process for these fan projects. And I'm sure you can imagine how messy, and how much work, that would instantly become.
I sympathize with the people that pour their hearts into these projects. I get it. Early in my career I was part of a FPS project using an existing IP that got shut down. But these shutdowns are part of the landscape, and it's disingenuous for anyone to pretend that they thought they'd get by with it.
I'd love for Nintendo to allow fan projects, but it's not happening and they've shown that. So if anyone asks me, I'd either not do one or keep it quiet until the moment of release as the tweet in the article suggests. There's really no other way forward with Nintendo. It is what it is.
@nessisonett no, but the mod feels like a convenient excuse to shut that thing down and not be associated with that sort of 'unsavoury stuff'.
@Noid It’s the same deal with Onlyfans, people don’t admit to consuming this stuff but there’s clearly an audience. I reckon a large chunk of people advocating for getting rid of such things partake of it in their own time.
Nintendo's done this for years now so it's not surprising in the slightest. Especially since the only reason they're still allowed to do that is because copyright law says so. We all know copyright holders (especially when it's a big corporation) can abuse that law in their favor and they know project creators can't do anything to fight it.
And regarding this quote: "it must also be seen to be discouraging and seeking to prevent copyright infringements in an active manner or risk leaving itself vulnerable in future legal disputes. Turning a blind eye in a single case sets a precedent that opens the door to copyright headaches down the line with other potentially more egregious projects."
You sure because Sega seems to be doing just fine despite all the Sonic fan games
Nintendo's attitude towards fan projects must stem from their legendary lawsuit with universal over donkey Kong. Nintendo won because they were able to prove that universal did a poor job defending their IP. I wonder if nintendo fears this could happen to them, hence their over protective nature.
@Salnax No by @NEStalgia logic. Fans should make their property, sell it for profit and stop "riding" existing properties. It doesn't matter if the fan is doing simple fan art, fan fiction, or making a fangame for fun.
@Donkey-Kong-Fan fun fact: being critical of something doesn't mean you hate it.
things aren't always so black and white.
it's wholly possible to enjoy Nintendo games, while critiquing Nintendo as a company.
no corporate entity should ever be treated as infallible.
"As long as they're not profiting, fans should be able to make and distribute whatever they like"
Once you post news articles about it and youtube video's, you ARE profiting off of it. (Ads, etc)
"A little more sensitivity towards fan projects would be nice"
There is a difference between a fan project and blatantly stealing IPs from (another) company. If you are a fan, then you buy the game. If you think the game is awesome and want to make something similar, then create your own character and world and make a similar game. (just look at the amount of metroidvania games on the eShop)
"It's a shame, but it's to be expected"
It's the LAW. So yeah, it is to be expected and it should be stopped.
"Nintendo is absolutely right to seek out and close down unofficial projects"
The only right answer. And I actually report projects like these to Nintendo whenever I see them.
It sucks that Nintendo is so vehemently against fan content.
I'm not much of a thinker so that's all I can really say.
I think sometimes Nintendo goes too far with their take downs. Understandable they are protective with their IP, but sometimes they are too aggressive.
Make just enough of a fan game for a trailer that can make a splash. Then immediately pivot, reskin, and announce it as "inspired by such-and-such IP." it's a really simple idea and could save idiots like these who can't seem to notice a C&D coming a mile away a lot of trouble.
@CharlieGirl your right anyone anywhere should be able to do anything with anyone’s intellectual property long as they are fans.
As much as you hate Nintendo's stance. Look at where the value is for their IPs compared to Sega's. Maybe there is something to Nintendo's overprotective ways.
@Luigisghost669 As long as fans don't profit from fangames, why shouldn't they flex their hobby?
Nobody has ever given a good answer to that question, other than blind kowtowing faith in Daddy Nintendo uwu.
Nintendo fans sometime are blinded by their love for Nintendo to not see it's a corporation who's main goal is profit , not to be your buddy. There is no such thing a corporation being on the consumers side.
I just never understand why some fans go to bat for a company who only cares about your credit card.
@Fangleman32 probably because "muh childhood memories" or some such.
On a side node, IPs and trademarks need to be actively protected (like here) otherwise you might lose your (exclusive) right to them.
Would you guys like Nintendo losing rights to Mario, Metroid or Pokémon? Because that WILL happen if they don't stop this.
The reasons Nintendo is less active against rom-hacks is just because those aren't trademark / ip infringements. Those are copyrights. And in opposite to IP / trademark, those can't be "lost" if you don't actively protect them.
Like with Sonic Mania, they got the rights from SEGA to use Sonic in that game. Just like Cadance of Hyrule got the rights from Nintendo.
The Sonic Mania argument is also completely disingeneous.
Sega haven't got a clue nowadays and were publishing appallingly bad sonic games for decades. Of course they jumped at that fan offering his skills. They were desperate. They are still desperate. That's why they have that stance towards fan games.
Obviously that's not an argument for Nintendo to agree to fan games for Nintendo IP. Nintendo is far from desperate. They have actual skilled developers.
It hurts a lot more if you put in lots of work like the Prime 2D makers did.
I understand why Nintendo does this to some extent, but that's the beginning and end of a defense of it for me. I think in an era where the smarter companies realized that trying to actively fight piracy has not actually helped them at all, trying to fight something much less worse in fan games just seems like an excuse for certain people at Nintendo and other companies to still have their job. That's my assumption anyway.
Most of this stuff for me is always "no one should care". Nintendo has gained nothing from this, other than a small amount of ire from fans. What a waste of time to even bother taking them down. They could've done something useful instead.
I'm glad Nintendo did.start making your own games .not use some else's character that they created
This thing makes me want NOT to buy Nintendo games...in fact everytime Nintendo send a C&D I'd like to toss my Switch out of the window.
@sanderev "Would you guys like Nintendo losing rights to Mario, Metroid or Pokémon? Because that WILL happen if they don't stop this."
Oh please. The sky isn't falling. Nintendo is lawyered up to high heaven and they'd NEVER lose their IP, certainly not to some random fan hacking their games for non-profit funsies.
@PcTV what does it even means?
@CharlieGirl I appreciate you eloquently expressing that sentiment. You took the high ground in your response to his comment. Sorry, but I can't do that because Nintendo apologists really bother me, so here goes....
@Donkey-Kong-Fan There's nothing wrong with people criticizing Nintendo, or any other company for that matter, if they disagree with a company's business practices. It doesn't make them 'complete bungholes' if they do it respectfully and with good intent out of wanting the company to improve. Nintendo is a company - they're not your friend and they don't care about you. Yes, they make great games but they engage in a ton of awful business practices. Going as far as blindly supporting them and criticizing their critics doesn't do anything good for anyone.
It's their intellectual property no matter if we like it or not its all up to Nintendo what they do with it
Removed - offensive remarks; user is banned
@CharlieGirl It's NOT A GAME HACK. That is something completely DIFFERENT.
Game hack / mod: change an existing game to do something different. This falls under copyright. Copyright can't be lost if the holder is alive. (up to 80 years after they die, infact)
"Fan" game: create a NEW game out of NOTHING with images, names, characters, worlds, etc from someone else. This is not copyright (you don't copy something) this is IP theft. Which does NEED, BY LAW!, to be ACTIVELY protected.
Meaning sending C&D and/or filing lawsuits.
If Nintendo doesn't actively stop this then Sony could say "Let's make Super Mario PS5". Because Nintendo did not protect their Super Mario TRADEMARK.
I don't understand why these people don't use their talents to make something original instead of wasting their time on a project that will certainly get shut down.
Its there IP and I can't tell them what to do with them, But I can disagree about them doing it, I don't think they should per say as there not making any money off of it, and a lot of the time its bc of Nintendo NintenDont want to port/Bring there stuff over form another console, And Its kinda annoying really bc People can't make fangames or make Emus for no money, but You have scalpers, Re sellers and everything else, for overcharged prices yet You cant Make a free to play fan game?
But thats just my take on the matter and its all opinion.
@Mountain_Man I suppose they are technicians with not much imagination or too shy / afraid to propose their own ideas for world and character building.
@sanderev bullmanure, there are many King of fighters fan games out there, SNK nver bothered to send a C&D to protect its IP...they don't care, they don't need to do it, they know people will buy the official games when they are available. Nintendo doesn't understand something so simple...
@NinjaGuy69 Well played 👏🏽👏🏽
@Mountain_Man the people who worked at Sonic Mania started their careeer making original Sonic games (using Sonic 2 engine)...so why can't these guys do something similar? Oh, I know why, because of Nintendo!
Does these people think that Nintendo will see it, squee on delight, hire them and Miyamoto would arrive and have a pizza with them?
Why on earth would Nintendo let anybody play with their IPs? And not only do this, by the way. Because it's fine when other companies protect their stuff but how dare Nintendo do the same?
Make your own IPs and stop standing on the shoulders of anyone else.
Don't want your game taken down? Don't steal someone else's IP. It's not hard.
The gameplay isn't copyrighted, just the names and characters. If this game was any good at all, it would have been just as good without Metroid's name on it and the gameplay wouldn't have been adversely impacted in any way without them
Do I agree with Nintendo when it comes to fan-made content? No.
Do I understand them? Absolutely
We are fully aware of Nintendo's practices, so putting so much effort into a game that will be removed sooner rather than later makes zero to no sense to me.
Keep the gameplay, do a reskin, call it Prime 2D.
Nintendo has no copyright over Metroidvania genre, only over characters and images.
It is like me telling you that I will smack you right in the face if you take one step towards me, and you do it anyway. You will get slapped. Terrible analogy, but you get the point.
I love fan made games, but more than that I love great gameplay, and it is a shame to see such project being left in the dust only because they used copyrighted characters.
@Whitestrider How many KoF official games are there that are actively developed? What would happen to SNK if they lost their trademark to KoF? I'm guessing not much.
That is what is different. The law is very clear.
It could happen. And if it does then that would mean you would lose one of your main trademarks. And for Nintendo trademarks, those are worth billions.
@sanderev So then why Sony has not made a Sonic game? There are plenty of original fan made Sonic games out there, you can't even Imagine how many!
Also Sega doesn't take down fan projects because they have no idea how to make a good Sonic game on their own. They're probably hoping to find some good ideas
@Mountain_Man I’m going to defend them on this one. Coming up with something original is no easy feat. With that said, sometimes fans just like a certain franchise so much they wish to honor by making something for fun.
I don’t think there was any maliciousness behind the team other than their admiration and love for a series. It’s like those people who make smash bros mods or those silly videos with ripped models. It’s just for fun.
That’s why I hope the team behind this project doesn’t let it die. Rather instead go back to the drawing more, redesign the characters and story, so they can finish their project and if they wish, release it for free, or make a profit.
@sanderev THEY CAN'T LOSE THE KOF TRADEMARK!!
Copyright law is an ass. It's clear that there is something badly wrong with it, but we're never going to change it. All we can do is just pile on the disrespect and show it up for the stupidity that it is.
@Whitestrider Yes, they can. It has happened before. Just look at a google search for lost trademarks. Trademark != copyright.
TBH I kinda see fan games as fan art. I mean Hell, Before Undertale Toby made a mode for earthbound, For all we know these game devs might make a game, Its just they need to make fan games of somthin else. Bc nintendo is not going to having.
@BreathingMiit Well to be fair it doesn't help that many courts are run by out of touch people who were born before technology.
@sanderev when??
@Clarice Yes, keep drinking that Kool Aid and pretend a very publicized minority of people already ostracized from the community are the majority
While you're at it, why don't we talk about how every Sonic fan r*ped their dementia-diagnosed mother, or how every Star Wars fan is racist and derogatory towards Asian people because they thought Rose Tico was a bad character, or how Marvel fans hate trans people because they weren't supporting the creation of "Snowflake and Safespace" in droves when the New Warriors relaunch was announced last year?
@Whitestrider
For example Apple had the trademark for "App Store" or the brand "Asprine". Or, yes, even the brand "Google".
All trademarks that have been either lost or weakend.
@sanderev app store is a bit too generic, aspirine is such a peculiar case, and what happened to Google??
@TheFrenchiestFry first of all: sorry for hurting your feelings but I am not saying those creeps are the majority.
Just that Nintendo doesn't want to be linked to a group that has people like that in a major position there AND uses their IP in a way they do not give permission for.
Developers make profit (even if not directly) by gaining attention, so none of these "fan projects" is really profit-free... why not develop something original? Because it gains not as much attention?
I absolutely agree with a person or a company's right to control their own IP. That said, I think there's legitimate reasoning to allow fan projects as well.
Nintendo seems reasonably consistent on this issue, so I am okay with it. It would bother me more if they played favorites, allowing some but not others.
I also think they need to better clear up their rules on what is allowed and what is not.
@Clarice Nintendo doesn't give two craps. Their game makes way too much money and the competitive scene is a miniscule portion of a largely casual playerbase. They put out these kinds of statements about not siding with such behaviour because not only is it good for their PR but good for maintaining brand reputation
In no way is this comparable to them being unreasonably restrictive with passionate fans working on projects that project their love of Nintendo's franchises. If every publisher cracked down on content like this, there wouldn't be success stories like Undertale, or AM2R, or Christian Whitehead and Stealth. These are completely apples & oranges comparisons being made here.
@Whitestrider App Store isn't generic, well it is now. And yes, because of that exact reason they lost it. Same thing happened to Google, but they were actually somewhat succesful in fighting back.
And asprine isn't a peculiar case, it's actually quite common.
For instance I can give you another example: Walkman, iPad, iPhone (that linksys thing ), and there are a lot more.
To the law this all is the same. And sure, Nintendo could actually fight back against losing the IP. But that would cost them a lot of money and time.
I wouldn't say they should be able to do everything, but it's like Iwata said, they shouldn't treat people doing passion projects like criminals, these fan projects don't harm Nintendo in any way.
Anyway, it's always good to say: "Love Mario, f* Nintendo".
@sanderev Oh yes, it's really generic...no wonder they lost the trademark on that.
Nintendo can't lose their trademarks, not even in a million of years, don't be silly.
I don’t even play fan games, but I watched a play through of Prime 2D and thought it was stunning.
With the Switch being as dominating as it is, especially with Dread releasing soon and it’s obvious crazy pre-order numbers, Nintendo has nothing to lose from a dedicated group of fans making an incredible fan game for people to play for free.
Now, if they were developing their own AMP2D game, then I’ll shut up, but that ain’t happening.
In conclusion, blah blah legal rights blah blah every right to shut it down blah. I don’t mind Ninty’s legal team going after for profit rom dumps, but a dedicated fan game that looked that good just seems unnecessary.
@TheFrenchiestFry yes they are two seperate things. The article is supposed to be about fan projects but it serves up the melee pedo gate as another example of Nintendo putting out a C&D.
That's why I added a counter argument in the second part of my first comment. I don't understand your problem with it I think?
i don't get why these skilled people are so faithful, it's like they're both inspired and uninspired. i'm not into these fan projects being taken down but it just looks like it's avoidable and they're limiting themselves.
@Clarice The #FreeMelee incident had NOTHING to do with the community MeToo movement that outed individuals in competitive Smash. That had been done for months by the time the Melee drama occurred
@TheFrenchiestFry it might have done for Nintendo is what I am saying.
Nintendo should try the fan made stuff and if it's good they should pay them to continue and release it. If it's hot trash then shut them down .
I feel like they should make some of these fan projects a part of switch online I mean official supported rom hacks and fan games would be a neat addition.
I know you may not be able to wrap your head around the motivation for making something as a passion project as a fan of something, but why ever support Nintendo in these cases? Did y'all remind the teacher to give homework at the last minute of class too?
The fact that more than 1/4 of people voted on the "Nintendo is absolutely right to seek out and close down unofficial projects" just proved how many bootlickers there are for nintendo, like come on that's just sad
I think Nintendo is completely in the wrong about doing things like this. Fan games die yet fan art doesn't. No difference. It's nonsense. They treat their properties as sacred when they aren't.
I believe Nintendo should only go after fan games, but I do think they should handle those situations better. With AM2R, I think that take down made sense. Due to its positive popularity and Federation Force's negative, it was very clear AM2R was going to only further harm the sales potential of MPFF. Metroid: Samus Returns being in development also I think further justified action being taken.
The take down of Prime 2D doesn't make as much sense. There's no indication that its existence is negatively impacting the environment surrounding Metroid Dread's launch. I actually think it's helpful considering Dread caused more of the community to want to play more Metroid. If they had released Metroid Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion to the Switch eShop, maybe there would be a more reasonable situation to respond to. Their reaction is more harmful because it is going against the overall upward trend for Metroid and its community.
@Darkyoshi98 you sound very pure and virtuous
I just think Nintendo are incredibly short sighted and sadly the fans often seem to care about these games much more than Nintendo do. As long as these aren't being sold I don't see what harm it causes and they could well learn from Sega and embrace the community
When AM2R was shutdown, Samus Returns was announced within a year. This makes me wonder if Nintendo is being Nintendo, or we will have incoming news for Prime 4 or a remastered trilogy in the next year. The latter is wishful thinking though.
Nintendo shuts down projects that may compete with their games. AM2R competes with Samus Returns. The fact they took down this project may indicate that something similar is in the works. Maybe it was for Metroid Dread since it is another 2D game, or maybe Prime Trilogy for next year (unlikely, but time will tell).
@NinjaGuy69 You’re not my friend and you don’t care about me either, so why should I listen to you? The people I’ve seen responding to this certainly have not done it in a respectful manner. I literally just got off Twitter, and all I saw there were people hurling insults towards Nintendo and all of its fans. People there have called me pathetic, dumb, sad, and so many other things I won’t repeat. I’m not the only one receiving this either, it’s anyone who merely likes Nintendo. And you defend them while at the same time you tell me “Nintendo’s not my friend” all because you want to come off as deep and edgy.
‘Fans’ need to understand IP law. It’s that simple.
Nintendo’s IP. Nintendo’s right to protect it.
Would be the same if it was an individual/small company being infringed upon. Having money does not mean people have the right to steal from you or warp your product. Having less money does give any moral leverage over the people you steal from and yes infringement is a form of theft. Fandom doesn’t give one the right to do whatever they want. Honestly Nintendo is pretty fair. They allow fan images, fanfiction and even let people make clothes and jewelry that profit on their IP. These are all genres that Nintendo has an active hand in yet they leave those people alone mostly even though they could easily go after them.
However they leverage their IP the most by making games. So they can’t allow any consumer confusion on that front. People take screenshots out of context all the time or a fan translation or a fan game can with the way the rumormill works on the internet damage their brand.
It isn’t like fans don’t have options. We have a million Zelda clones now, make your own game. If one is so desperate to work with Nintendo IP, reach out to them directly. Cadence of Hyrule shows they don’t mind. Heck apply to work for Nintendo. Half the treehouse staff has stories that they busted their behinds to get their jobs because they dreamed of working for Nintendo with those franchises. Put in the honest work. But if you do the “it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission” route, there are consequences. And I have not one iota of sympathy for anyone incurring consequences for one’s actions. You may get away with it and you may not but any IP holder be it an individual or a mega corporation has every right to defend their IP.
And a cease and desist is fairly benign response when they are within their rights to sue. Make your own work.
@CharlieGirl I agree with you entirely. Unfortunately, most people I’ve seen online DO seem to be hating Nintendo. I also want Nintendo to get better because I love them. I wish most people here took the stance of criticizing Nintendo while still loving them but that’s not the case. Especially on Twitter where people have only been hurling insults and nothing more. It’s all hatred.
@Mattock1987 I don't think they want to understand. It means not doing what they want and accepting reality. Makes me wonder what kind of upbringing they got. It feels like that gets worse every generation.
In my eyes, the reason why Nintendo goes after fan games so much is that they are seen as competitors to their product, which they own the exclusive right to do whatever with because of copyright. (Not going to dig into that hole though.)
Fan Art and Fanfiction are different in that they don't compete with the game as a whole. On top on that, Fan Games aren't seen as "fair use" as the other two.
Finally, it's only really with the major titles like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid, etc, that are taken down. So why can't people just make Fan Games of more niche and lesser loved titles of Nintendo's library?
There are so many devs out there who essentially are making fan projects but they hire artists and writers to make them unique. Wargroove being the most obvious example, they clearly wanted to make Advance Wars and did just that, but they hired creatives to put a unique lick of paint and then it was all fine! People loved it, Nintendo promoted it!
Honestly the idea of being able to use characters and such owned by anyone for your personal projects just because you aren't making money off it is foolish. It's willfully ignoring all the things you are gaining from it and the things it's costing, potential or otherwise, the owner. They're not yours to use, end of.
There are thousands of talented artists out there itching to make cool games. Seek them out, collab with them, hire them! Make something new that doesn't get you taken down, something you can own and expand on yourself. It works out better for everyone!
@Donkey-Kong-Fan You can love what a company produces but still dislike the people behind them.
I can acknowledge Nintendo makes fun games while also pointing out their ***** practices over the years. The devs and the suits are two different sets of people. It's the suits in charge I dislike.
I stand firmly in the "keep quiet until release" camp. There is no other possible outcome. Your project WILL be cut down, because Nintendo is ruthless. Better to keep quiet and silently leak it onto the internet, than risk waking the Ruthless Behemoth and have your hard work stomped out of existence. Once it's out there and people are having fun, it's already too late... you can't cease & desist fun.
Hopefully the creators of this fan project will just re-brand the game as something else and release it on Steam, where Metroid Sprites can be easily modded in.
@Chowdaire Ironic, considering how much Nintendo partners with Universal, even back in the NES days.
200+ years of copyright law and people are still surprised and offended when a company exercises their right to protect their property.
Edit: Also, this only happens when projects are conflicting with current soon to be releasing Nintendo properties. 99% of these fan projects go untouched until Nintendo see fan projects taking the spotlight from their official games.
Folk defending this are not defending the company. They are defending the games. Nintendo are prolific. The moment everyone starts making their games...it's going to affect output. (Maybe that's similar for Steamdeck takes, I mean...what exactly are Valve doing these days besides counting revenue? But I digress...)
There is some talent out there. But retreading someone else's stuff isn't very creative. It's skill more than anything. The hard part is coming up with the concept. As much as I don't like to see someone's hard work come to nothing, I do wish they could have taken inspiration rather than plagiarism.
I get there are some fairytale stories of folk doing this sort of thing and catching SEGA's eye etc. But let's face it, SEGA were struggling with Sonic. Always have if we are honest. Nintendo are hardly in the same boat.
Again, not defending the company, defending the games, because anyone that says 'if it was available, I would buy it' is full of <expletive deleted> (usually.)
Honestly, I appreciate it's very difficult to keep things underground, but that is where stuff like this belongs. Not general distribution, because in our current society, Nintendo are well within their rights to take stuff down. Maybe if we were slightly less capitalist, then we would all be playing everything lol.
I agree with the bottom three answers of the poll
Nintendo are absolutely right to go after these and take them down. They are an attack on the IP, and they are profiteering- if not directly with money/donations, then through fame/influence and advertising.
All that time spent working on a project like this versus spending all that time on something they came up with themselves... is it really because they are a "fan"? Why can't they use their own ideas, inspired by their favourite IP? Oh yea, because 1000s of people do that and it gets seen/played by no-one.
They are using the IP to profit. Good on Nintendo taking them out.
Why can't fans make games based on their favorite IPs without blatantly ripping off the characters of the IP?
Weird Al Yankovic has this problem. People back in the Napster/Limewire days would make R rated parodies and label them as works of Mr Yankovics. They weren't and yet people would still associate them with him.
Nintendo is protecting themselves because as these fan projects may contain questionable material they don't want people to associate said content with an official piece of their work.
So it's simple, change the characters out and you can still release your game
It's using their product name so obviously a bad idea. You can't represent a company's product when you don't have permission, that easy.
So many people here don’t understand the situation at all and repeat things they’ve read online like “they have to protect their IP” - open YouTube and type Star Wars Fan film…. And watch some amazing, expensive shorts (and longs) that are made by fans. Even Disney leaves them alone - Star Wars IP isn’t in danger. Then google fan fiction. They are millions of books written about other peoples work… all left alone and none result in a loss of copyright. You can’t profit from the work.
It’s only video game fans that seem unable to grasp the whole fan fiction movement.
@Optimist80 go on YouTube and put Star Wars fan film…. I’ll think you’ll find you can.
Just make your own game. Point blank simple.
@Whitestrider It's quite simple, really. Sega's approach clearly doesn't make IPs as strong as Nintendo's.
From the outside it might look like they're overprotecting their franchises, but looking at how many rivals Mario has had over the years, and how little of a blip Sonic really was as a rival to Mario, it tells me that Nintendo really do know what they're doing when it comes to preserving the value and control over their properties.
Something people might not understand. Often, these fan projects and fan hacks are made by solo programmers. Not every programmer is skilled at art or sound (more not than often in my experience) and so working within the confines of a distinct IP means they can improve their programming ability without having to go to the trouble of creating their own characters, art, music etc. Painters use the same ideas, especially in pop art. Try telling Warhol that he doesn’t own the image rights to Marilyn Monroe or Lichtenstein that he doesn’t own the comic strip he’s ripping from. Look at how DJ Shadow and the Beastie Boys were creating exciting hip hop beats from a massive array of samples until legal issues ruined that exciting movement. Good artists copy, great artists steal.
Make the game that got inspired from other games such as Nexomon (from Pokemon), Oceanhorn 2 (from BOTW), Tinykin (from Pikmin), etc and you will be fine.
@nessisonett poor wittle programmer can't find an artist on the internet to team up with? That's it, he's forced to use Nintendo extremely famous IP then.
to the 27% of you that are against fan games i wish you a very bad day
@Kitoro you can make fan games without the IP. Check out the Nintendo eshop for some absolutely brilliant ones.
If Nintendo had placed half of the effort into making original, AAA Switch releases and making legacy games available for purchase via the eShop that they've put into litigation against fan sites and ROM sites, the sky would've been the limit and piracy would, at the very least, have been far less of an issue. Their anal retentive desire for control could easily backfire and alienate the very consumers who've made their company so profitable to begin with.
@PcTV no please, don't say that, It doesn't make any sense. Sega was against fan games too, but the backlash they received After the Streets of Rage Remake case was so strong they (at least I hope) understood it wasn't worth to make enemies among their own fans. Nintendo is different, their fanbase is so large they simply don't care about that, because they know that even some people boycott them there are millions who don't even know what just happened. But I do, and I don't forget.
It’s absolutely their prerogative, they own the IP, they created the IP, the IP is theirs.
@ArmenianJedi13 yeah, we know that, but sometimes they could just good things happen...
As much as I love fangames and custom mods, they are in their right to take them down. Sucks but it is what it is.
I feel multiple ways:
With that said, just alter the colors, characters, etc. then release it.
Doesn’t get much more “1st world problems” than this, “Nintendo won’t let me use their IPs” 😫
We know Nintendo stances on “fan games”, emulators and ROMS, and when you got games like Axiom Verge, which is clearly Metroid inspired, but is quite easily able to be its own identity, and you also got Cadence of Hyrule showing that Nintendo is actually willing to team up with the smaller guys, they’ve got no one blame but themselves for trying to ride their tailcoats.
Standing on a tall person’s shoulders doesn’t make you tall.
@locky-mavo "Standing on a tall person’s shoulders doesn’t make you tall."
But it does make it easier to spit in his face.
It's not that different from a fanfic and we don't see the big N going distances to shut down fanfic sites. On this they are legally right, but the morality of such action is debatable.
From my perspective, if you’re making a fan made game from a Nintendo franchise, you don’t expect to monetize from it and you expect the soon to arrive C&D letter. They’ve always been like that and will never change.
On the other hand, making these fan games are always helpful to indie developers to create their own IP, or we wouldn’t have Hollow Knight for example.
It’s like art, we all start copying from life, then we go and create our own.
It's a bit of a bummer.
@Nepo it is. Nintendo are not selling fiction, they are selling games.
IP law demands you to protect what you own or else you lose your claim to it.
Either get in touch with them beforehand, send in demos whatever or use your talents to create new games.
Publishing games has never been easier before.
I don’t think anyone is going to confuse a fan made game distributed online for PCs as a legitimate game made by Nintendo. Nintendo goes way to far even if they are completely in their rights.
Fan projects are good, but are still wholly and inarguably illegal.
@Whitestrider What would you think of Nintendo doing a sequel for an indie game, say, Shovel Knight, and uploaded it for free to the Nintendo eShop?
I think most people would be against that.
I really don't see a problem with fan games as long as they aren't profiting off of them. It doesn't affect Nintendo financially at all and people should be allowed to express their love for the ips they find an interest in, like if you were to use the logic the shills above are using then you shouldn't be able to make anything fanmade in any form like art, fanfics, music/remixs etc.
Sure Nintendo technically has the right to take these down but the question is never if they can its should they.
Nintendo is the only company that goes this far to take down any and all fanmade projects on this scale and Nintendo fans are the only ones that go just as far to defend them. It makes no sense to me.
Meanwhile Sonic Riders X is lookin' good, and affects Colors Ultimate sales in no way because fans who enjoyed Riders dgaf about the modern lackluster games.
I think Nintendo are some seriously weird people. Hell, I'm surprised they don't cry to twitch and YouTube about people playing their games still..although they probably do.
@UglyCasanova well they are right. Watching others play their games instead of playing them yourself is an abomination. They are great games mostly. Not movies.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Capcom and Sega did it right, Nintendo got it wrong. Very simple.
This fan game wouldn’t have impacted Nintendo’s bottom line in the slightest.
@Salnax that's a tough one. Technically fanfiction is infringement. It's unauthorized use of intellectual property. Companies let it go and it's now common. Avoiding that common acceptance is why companies have to go after EVERYTHING, lest it become commonly accepted.
I think everyone understands fanfic is harmless, but it is also explicitly violates if the owners rights. It's easy to endorse such use without permission when it's a billion dollar corporation. But what if I create a comic that's my characters and world. You then create your fanfic against the terms of use without permission and you use them in a way I don't approve of and feel harms the image of my characters. You asserting the right to mutilate my work takes away my right to my creation/property to be used the way I want. Whether it's just me or is a corporation the rights to ownership of creative work is the same.
As much as I understand why sites such as this cover such fan projects, I do feel it’s time not to. Otherwise the exposure it generates almost guarantees their take down.
@BloodNinja blossom tales, baldo, oceanhorn, all the kart racers on the eshop, bug tales, the list is very long.
All without using the exact art from Nintendo. These 'fan games' are just an excuse for disregarding creative work(artists) by technicians(programmers).
I'm in two minds, on one hand its a shame Nintendo are anal about this because as long as they're free and not making money i fail to see much harm but on the other hand we're at a stage where you're dumb making a fan made game based on an Nintendo IP and even dumber if you announce it before its finished, if you must make it then do it in secret then dump it on as many rom sites as possible when done and let the internet do its thing.
I'll just list my general thoughts towards fan projects like this:
Legally, Nintendo is entirely in the right to do this, and I assume that they wouldn't have their lawyers waste their time with this kind of project unless there were legal concerns with the IP. I dislike it, and wish Nintendo was more lenient with fan content like this, so long as it doesn't use Nintendo's content to turn a profit. This is mainly with their assets and art, I don't mind them coming down on people using those, but things like this and fan art that's made from the ground up should be given more leniency.
For this project in particular, the best course of action would be to rework the visuals and concepts so that it's different enough to be its own project. I feel sympathy for the Devs, but the way the message was worded, it sounds like they were prepared for this to happen, which makes me hope they had a backup for this scenario. Nintendo's probably the most infamous about their copyright lawsuits, and if anything could've skirted through some loopholes, it probably wasn't this.
@PcTV of course, because Nintendo is a multi billion company... Again please don't embarrass yourself further.
@Clarice
It also makes it easier for the bigger guy to slam them when they do.
@locky-mavo very true!
@Clarice That’s cool that you think that. I’m not interested in trying to change your mind though. Thank you for sharing your opposing viewpoint.
Well guess what?
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!
DUM DUMB DUMMIES!!!
I have said it a million times...
Quit blowing your own horn and bragging about your fan games for 5 minutes of Twitter fame before the games are FINISHED!
Stupid STUpid STUPID!!!
PS: I would keep making the game for myself anyway.
Prime 2D looks incredible. It’s a real shame it won’t be completed.
Dread better fudging deliver!
@nukatha True! But like idiots they publicly brag about the games every single time.
IF.YOU.DON'T.DEFEND.TRADEMARK.YOU.LOSE.IT.
Why do people either ignore this fact or not know it? Especially a journalist? The reason Nintendo might wait until a project nears completion and seem spiteful is because you only risk losing trademark rights once a project no longer has plausible ignorance from the standpoint of the trademark holder.
But once that happens, yea, a company has to take action or risk losing sole rights of any trademarked content. It's not just copyright, it's trademark that's the real issue. Even if people might be using "copyright" as a general, umbrella term.
@sanderev THANK YOU. Someone else knows the law.
It's almost as if Nintendo thinks that people will prefer fan projects to their actual official releases if they don't issue a C&D and if that's the case, then it sounds like Nintendo realizes that it's products aren't coming up to par with those fan projects and thus, trying to unfairly stifle the competition.
Or it could be Nintendo is ran by old businessmen with no developer backgrounds who don't keep up with the times (or their consumers)and have never played a videogame in their lives and will, without remorse, drop their gaming division all together if things start going south due to their massive wealth and supposed connections with the Yakuza and it's very plausible considering the incident with Etika's friend and the behavior of Nintendo's' "agents" that visited him.
My stance is that if you make a fan game, say nothing about it until it comes out. Especially if you're using Nintendo IP's.
But you really should just make your own game and use what you like as inspiration.
Just look at what Tom Happ did due to his love of the original Metroid.
Instead of sending a C&D, they should hire these developers and publish the games. Call it Labs and present to the world as a brand where talented junior developers experiment with their IP. There you go, happy ending.
The creator of AM2R went on to work on the Ori games - so Nintendo do squash potential benefits to itself with its ban hammer. I'm hoping the Prime 2D team can release the game with the copyrighted assets removed as it was shaping up well.
@Whitestrider Oh... you're one of "those" aye? To you it's just that Nintendo happens to be a big company, got it. The artists behind their IPs don't matter at all to you, as long as the publisher is big.
What a way of having a civil discussion.
Sega's open approach to fan games really makes Nintendo look bad. And it makes the "legal necessity" of it appear all the more moot.
@PcTV no, you are one of those who doesn't understand what a fan game made by fans for fans is!
@Chocobo_Shepherd because it is simply Not True!! No company has ever lost a trademark because of a fan game!!
Where do I stand? Uh, know your role.
@Brink
There's a bunch of companies besides Nintendo that don't play around with their IP's.
Square squashed a Chrono Trigger game that was supposedly good.
Sega hit a developer with a C&D for a Streets of Rage remake that was on the brink of being completed before, so they're not as fan friendly for everything themselves.
@TheFrenchiestFry They should just get rid of the fans at this point. 😃
The article mentions the differences between Nintendo's and Sega's approach to fangames, but let's not forget Microsoft's approach:
A group of fans are making a fanmade Halo game called Installation 01, and Microsoft/343 Industries is actually helping them develop and distribute it, under the stipulations that the developers make no money off of the game, and that they credit Microsoft/343 Industries as the sole owners of the Halo IP.
Nintendo could easily create a team of creative consultants to review fangames and give tips to the creators for developing them, and then offer to host the download sites through an online portal, while making sure that the developers make no money and credit Nintendo as the sole owner of the IP.
Furthermore, developers of fangames of exceptional quality should be brought on as employees of Nintendo to either flesh out their ideas further, or provide new ideas for the franchises they love.
God knows there are several fangames based on Nintendo IP that I have seen over the years that are of exceptional quality (AM2R, Prime 2D, and others that I will not name due to them still being under development), and the developers more than deserve to be part of the Nintendo family.
Here's the thing, you can do a fan project using someone else's IP all day...just as long as you don't charge for it. Something like this or AM2R, projects done by super passionate fans who were just doing it because they wanted to and give that work away to other passionate fans, is totally fine legally and does not infringe on copyright.
A 2D Prime remake takes literally nothing away from Nintendo. They don't lose a dime, nor is there ANY chance of them losing their IP. No one is going to decide to play this free, fan made game over Metroid Dread and Nintendo's insistence on constantly kicking down their most dedicated, hardcore fans just makes them look like the bad guys.
Asking Nintendo to “ease up” is the same as asking an introverted person to “go places a little more.”
No reason for it. These games form no harm to Nintendo in the slightest and continuing to do it is only gonna hurt them in the long run and create enemies. I miss the Iwata and Reggie days when they weren’t as ruthless with this crap IMO.
I can’t help but feel that Nintendo is well within their rights to call foul on fan projects.
I haven’t read many comments here, but I’ve seen some people saying these fan games are no different than fanfic or fanzines/doujinshi. But fan games -non-profit or not - take it to a whole different level. They copy not only concepts and characters, but present it in the same media as Nintendo’s core product! I imagine if Kyoto HQ were lenient and let these amateur projects proliferate, the general public will interact with these lookalikes. It’s bound to dilute their IP and potentially cut into profits. As in, some people are so passionate about Metroid, they made their own homage game! But many others may be casual fans who won’t pay $60 for Dread when there’s a perfectly awesome Prime 2D game out there for free.
Build the games if you like, but it’s the IP holder’s prerogative to block mass distribution if they feel that is in their best interests. Fair enough. You’ll probably still get street cred or noticed by pros either way.
Nintendo should continue to curate their assets. I think disciplined business is what has kept them on top for many years (ahem, Sega, ahem)
Seems simple to me, but then I’ve worked for Japanese companies my whole adult life, so...
I’m surprised the plurality of people have the ridiculous, entitled viewpoint.
@Teksetter
Your absolutely right.
The notion that Nintendo isn't in the right to remove fan projects using their IP's is well, wrong, point blank.
There's no argument against it and it's kinda ridiculous that people think there is.
Too many bootlickers in this thread. It's beyond frustrating seeing how many morally-underdeveloped people there are defending Nintendo's policy on fangames, and being fully confident in their reasoning.
I had thought about addressing some of those comments, but there's (sadly) too many. I can only implore those people to exercise some critical thinking.
Like I said, remakes I understand...but this Prime game I don't get. It's not like other remakes, it was redone from 3D to 2D. I never played it so I don't know everything, but...yeah, Nintendo needs to calm down a bit.
It's a bit different making art or short videos of your favourite games. But building a game to completion, even not charging for it, competes with Nintendo's own offerings. That crosses the line. It's better to feed that energy into creating an original project.
This comments section is like 2020, a dumpster fire full of exploding spiders. Difference is, is that this was funny. And I want to point out that it was completely legal in the USA, to own, violate, and kill other humans up to about 1865ish. Just cause it's a law doesn't make it right.
@Whitestrider Because they either defend them or the game is not visible enough to risk losing plausible ignorance. I know the law; I teach this stuff.
@ElStormo
It’s sad, you and another commenter here dismissing anyone defending Nintendo on this as simply a “bootlicker.”
You profess critical thought, but instantly label me a corporate apologist. Please try to give people more credit. Some of us are looking at this from a legal, business, or cultural angle, in a nuanced way, not because we’re mindless fans.
You said you didn’t want a dialogue and I apologize, but I just wanted to speak up.
And yet, they ignore fan art (commercial use aside).
I don't understand why these fans don't just change samus' colour and call the game something different like axiom verge or something.
It's a shame but, really?
What did they expect? I mean, it must suck to put so much time and effort into something just to have it vanished but you reap what you sow. Now, I'm pretty sure they are going to continue making this till completion.
The poll responses are surprisingly well balanced!
Removed - inappropriate language
@ElStormo to many people throwing the word bootlickers around today in almost every situation which someone has a differing opinion. It’s becoming the new basic white girls using literally the wrong way.
@Teksetter sorry if you felt like it was directed to your comments (haven't read all), if you were posting something considered and thoughtful. I was moreseo referring to comments that liken fangames to 'theft', or support Nintendo crushing fangames purely on the basis that it's their legal right (I saw a bit of that sentiment in the last Prime 2D article).
It's fine to look at the issue through different lenses, esp. for the purpose of understanding why Nintendo does this, why they might need to or feel they need to, etc., but at the end of the day I think arguing that Nintendo is morally upright by taking these fangames down is a highly indefensible viewpoint to hold. those who espouse that are the bootlickers, in my eyes.
I'm happy to have a discourse btw, I just didn't want to sift through all the comments that I felt warranted a reply.
@Luigisghost669 maybe if you were a blithering moron, you might think a fangame is an official Nintendo product. don't see how this is even in the realm of realistic argument
@ElStormo Playing the devil's advocate, the general public who aren't gamers or avid game players like ourselves probably wouldn't. That's where the argument comes from. That's the audience Nintendo is afraid stuff like fan-games would take.
But as a general response to this thread. The refrain from so many here that treats people who do these passion projects, as criminals and people to be derided is, I would dare to say, monstrous. You can make the argument all day long that they could've tried to develop something uniquely their own instead, and you'd be right. The problem is trying to make something unique is not as easy as anyone saying those things makes it seem.
It may look like indies are coming up with unique looks and such out of the woodwork, but chances are they either had a clear idea before the project started, or had to take a very long time to hash it out. The oodles of concept art for games out there should make this face obvious, but it seems like most forget that.
Not only that, as many people have pointed out: these passion projects are made out of love for a specific franchise. Just because some use assets taken from other games in the series, or use designs from the series, among other things, doesn't make them any less so, and to try to paint them as lesser for it, or the creators as bad people, is just downright malicious and shows the true character of some people here.
@Teksetter To be frank, I would call tarring people as bad people for passion projects like Prime 2D shows a lack of critical thought and a lack of necessary nuance that should be acknowledged.
Like I've already said: Most people engage in making these projects out of love for a franchise and series they enjoy. Yes, they do use the designs and often times the assets of the parent series, but to drag them through the mud for that passion and deny it comes off as vulgar and cruel.
-and then there's these people who act as if they were acting on making this with a profit motive in mind... There are people foolish enough to do that, but look at AM2R as an example, where there an intent of profit being made there? No, it was a ten-year old passion project, made purely to remake a game from a series the developers loved. People who ask for money for making an fan-game explicitly about a series are fools, but is it not so that they are an exception and not a rule?
@ElStormo
Thanks for the measured reply! I appreciate the explanation.
I guess I did take the “bootlicker” label personally, needlessly. There’s a range of thoughtful opinions on this topic.
Either way, it’s too late at night for me to debate!
I can't help but notice that in most, if not all of the cases where Nintendo has sent out a C&D, it occurs whenever the developer of said "infringing" content simply never asked Nintendo for permission.
How Nintendo outsourced Samus Returns to MercurySteam is beyond my knowledge, but honestly, if that's what it's gonna take to make a game (Dread) for Nintendo, then it's a little ridiculous, but it is what it is.
Then you have indie crossovers like Cadence of Hyrule, one of the rare cases where Nintendo has allowed an indie developer group (Brace Yourself Games) make a profit with the use of Nintendo IPs. Because it's specifically a crossover between CotND and Zelda, I can see this type of thing being the best way to approach a Nintendo-themed game while remaining as an indie dev.
Otherwise, I really think asking Nintendo for permission is the best way to go. I hate saying this, but it happens elsewhere and on other mediums. YouTube copyright strikes, the film industry, music, you name it. Nintendo's gonna say no 90% of the time, but is it really worth taking that risk, especially if the intent was to gain attention and make a profit? That's why I personally dislike the OoT Unreal Engine 4 fan remake.
@sanderev I'm sure Nintendo is very, very grateful to you. In fact, I'm sure you're their favourite customer and that all the execs consider you a personal, close friend.
I'm not usually this blunt on here, but you're genuine scum for reporting fangames.
@KayFiOS Sega’s playbook? Sega did shut down that Streets of Rage fan game remember? Also Nintendo will only do that if they can’t make good games. Sega can’t make a good Sonic game so that’s why they allow fans to do it without acknowledging specific ones
@MegaVel91
Well stated! I also would argue that there is nothing intrinsically immoral or bad about fan projects or the devoted and talented fans who make them. It’s only when those admirable passion projects are released publicly for mass consumption that it gets murky. Especially when that tribute project is a close facsimile of the original product.
KFC probably won’t mind if you release a Col. Sanders fanzine, but surely they’ll protest if you start giving out Col. Sanders-branded chicken nuggets to thousands of people, even if given freely. I think the company is justified in protecting their finger-lickin’ brand if they so choose. 😁
It would really be interesting if NL were to get opinions from different stakeholders on the topic. The editorial is well written and timely, the poll is active, but I’d love to read statements from Nintendo, the Prime 2D creators, and other relevant voices like Thomas Happ!
I support Nintendo. Those people should create their own IP instead of stealing Nintendo. If they're so talented, where's the imagination to do something original?
I think if they make everything original and made from there designs than technically it’s there’s. Just because it looks something like nintendos shouldn’t give them the say to stop making there project.
@Luigisghost669 how on Earth could you play a fan made game and think its from Nintendo? I'm sorry but your hypothetical scenario makes little sense
@ElStormo I was thinking the same, imagine being on a PC, going to a website about modded or fan made games, downloading a rom from there and playing that on an emulator and then not liking that game so now you won't buy a Switch. The ironic thing is the people who are most likely to be playing this are huge Nintendo fans, so all Nintendo are doing is hurting their own existing fan base
@Audiogore0733
What are you referring to?
Because the game in question here literally has Samus in it and is inspired by an existing game....with Samus in it lol!
And that's the main issue at the end of the day that people are failing to understand based on emotion.
Once you use someone's IP in any shape or form to create a fan game without permission from the IP holder, whatever happens from there is totally on you regardless of whether it's a passion project or not.
Well…….I’ve got mixed feelings about this. There are a lot of games you can make mods with….let’s mention Half-Life, for example. I’ve made a mod with HL. However you gotta read the fine print.
In my case you can make a mod, but you cannot profit from making a mod. You can always upload it to a site like moddb. And let people have fun playing it.
It’s Nintendo’s intellectual property towards the end. I don’t understand how this developer made a great mod, personally I would play this game, for sure, he sounds as smart as anyone can be, without “reading or knowing” the fine print. 👍🏼
@ElStormo You're as bad as him thinking fan games makers are your friends and are not just doing that to get a good job.
Nintendo may like fan projects like this, but unfortunately they have to shut off ALL fan projects, not just the ones they don't like. Otherwise fan projects that pornographize Nintendo IPs can just cry it's unfair when other fan projects aren't shut down but theirs is.
I understand the desire to promote that sense of community. That's fine. However, there are limits and it's not just about greed.
1. If you want to make a fun piece of fan art... Enjoy. HOWEVER, if it is something that is not in the spirit of the property then there might be a problem. Making a picture of Mario, Luigi, and Peach is fine. Sticking them in a three-way? Not so much. IP has value that goes beyond money. If your fan art threatens to devalue or alter the carefully crafted image of those properties then you deserve what you get.
2. If you're making a fan game of Zelda in Game Builder Garage then you will have no problem. That's what they designed GBG for. Enjoy. However, if you decide to code your own Zelda sequel then there's a problem. The scope of a fan sequel is much higher than some rinky dink GBG demo. You're stepping on their toes and into their domain. You're taking attention off of them using their own toys. You might even be interfering with their plans.
Think of IP as a toy.
Some toys get dumped into a giant community chest that anybody can play with. That's what public domain is. Play with it. Break it. Who gives a crap? It doesn't really have an owner anyway.
However, some toys have owners. They're the ones who call the shots. They get to decide who gets to play with their toys. If they think that you're going to break it or even breathe on it wrong, they can say "no" too. The toy is theirs. Period.
This is what we have here. Metroid is Nintendo's "toy" and they have every right to control who plays with it and how. Money doesn't have to be an issue. Maybe they want to control the integrity of the product. Maybe they just want to arbitrarily say no. That's fine.
You don't even have to be a fan. If you work for an IP holder then you have a responsibility to treat their IP as they wish to have it treated. Work for Marvel and you have a certain responsibility to return their "toys" to a reasonably decent state so that the next writer and the ones after them can play with it too. You can't just give Spidey cancer just because you want to.
If you own IP, it's your right to protect its longevity.
Nintendo is just protecting their interests.
1. They don't want any fan game project taking the focus off of what they're doing.
2. Good OR bad, they don't want people to mistakenly think that a fan game is a Nintendo made or sanctioned project.
3. A fan project is one being done on somebody else's terms. Nintendo reserves the right to dictate terms.
4. They don't want any overexposure.
4. Maybe it IS about greed. To put it in GTA terms. If Nintendo is a pimp and Metroid is a hooker, ain't nobody gonna profit other than NintendoIf Metroid is turning tricks on its own or somebody else is playing digi-pimp...
IP stands for "Intellectual Property". PROPERTY. That's the bottom line. The property is owned by Nintendo, not the public.
I think you should take takedowns a bit more personal - and then go: "F- it, I‘m making my own game, so I don‘t have to deal with all this crap." The experience people gain in the process of making these games is what counts, anyway. And yes, of course it‘s nice to have a finished product and release it to the public. If you‘re using someone else‘s intellectual property without permission though you have to be aware that it will eventually get taken down. If I did a cover of Highway To Hell and release it on Soundcloud it wouldn‘t take long until I get striked for copyright. That‘s simply how it works.
IMO, just create something original. It might not have the visibility of a well known IP, but better to earn your stripes solely on your own merits than on unsanctioned use of somebody else's designs or ideas. If you're THAT talented then you probably are at no loss for fresh ideas.
I get that you want the Metroid or Mario game of your dreams to be made, but that's really not your call to make. Leave it up to Nintendo themselves or find some way to weasel yourself onto their dev team and help call the shots officially.
It's frustrating. I get it. However, would you like somebody else taking liberties with something you created and worked so hard for so many years to make popular? Probably not.
A lot of people look at this from a gamer pov, which is understandable. From Nintendo’s pov, I’m sure they admire and respect the art, craftsmanship, hard work of the fan games based on their IP. However allowing one of these fan projects to exists, motivates many lesser skilled fans to do whatever they want with the IP which makes it uncontrollable and unwanted. Some fan work will then be unsuitable for my and your children to lay their eyes on and forever change their perception on the previously safe IP. So best to avoid that and they take a firm stance to allow nothing to be in control and protect the IP from uncontrollable events. This has nothing to do with “greed and cowardice” but everything with protect and avoid.
@NEStalgia totally agree. While it’s sad that somebody puts so much work into this, but it’s IP theft and it also ruins N’s future plans with the IP. If I could play so many not as polished Metroid games, then when one officially comes out, I will be burnt out on the series and may not even want to play the good game. These fans have a choice to create their own characters. Let’s see it from another perspective- if someone made a bad envisioning of the series, it could damage the IP’s reputation-no matter if it’s official or not. If I owned an IP, I would want to push it in my direction, not allow anyone to toy with it. People need to learn to be more respectful to others too. These people may be talented, and a better approach would be approaching Nintendo-and maybe they would like the project and even find it. Nobody would let a guest in their house without a permission and let them do whatever they want in the house. L
Man they knew what they were getting into right from the start. They should have taken that same energy and created their own game, inspired by Metroid and not use someone else's IP and act all sad and down when the owner comes back to protect their own stuff, which is the actual right thing to do. There's tons of Metroid-inspired games out there that have officially released, which for sure just started out as "for fun" projects. You can't use the likeness of Samus without permission and act like you were victimized when you get caught.
It's Nintendo's property, they can do what they please.
If anything, it should teach fans like this to be original and create their own characters, worlds and games. they could have actually had an impressive game to market, instead they have something completely worthless.
@CajunFires Actually didn't know about that, and that was over a decade ago, plus, the Streets of Rage remake was released, and you can still find it if you look for it. The fact that the Sonic Amateur Games Expo and Sonic Hacking Contest continue to be held annually, plus the fact that one man who created the fan game, Sonic Retro, would go on to not only remake Sonic 1, 2, and CD, but also be part of a team of Sonic fans that would make Sonic Mania, shows that SEGA has been a lot more lenient with fan creations in more recent years, and certainly more than their old rival, Nintendo. May sound a bit cliched these days, but SEGA does what Nintendon't.
Oh, and as for your remark that SEGA is incapable of making a good Sonic game, Unleashed, Colors, and Generations say hi. Not only that, but SAGE has been going on since 2000. Even people who hate Sonic would agree the early 2000's were some of his best years.
Fan games are a waste of time for everyone involved. I get that some people are passionate about the properties, but they should be using their talents to make their own IP and not potentially tarnish someone else's. Stop using IP that don't belong to you and make your own.
@KayFiOS Show me evidence that Sega has acknowledged those fan expos BY NAME. The guy that used to make fan games officially works for Sega so that argument is stupid in of itself since he clearly approached Sega with a pitch and they accepted. And said pitch was a showcase of his retro engine. Your “fans” made Mania is a weak one since they’re making official games and not fan games anymore
Sonic Unleashed had a lukewarm reception and many consider it to not be good. Colors isn’t as good as everyone makes it out to be. Generations had the nostalgia to carry it. Lost World is universally agreed not that good and Forces is basically Colors but with Classic Sonic. So no Sega isn’t capable of making good Sonic games.
Also btw, there is a Nintendo fan game has still been going since 1999. The reason it hasn’t been taken down is because it hasn’t got any media attention
@glaemay you shouldn't make embarrassing comments like this, it shows that you don't understand the topic.
If you are a talented painter it’s no use copying Picasso, Van Gogh, Rembrandt or Kandinsky. You need to develop your own style and product.
Also, really using designs you do not own or have any rights to and making then into a game on a platform on which Nintendo does not release any games. How naive can you be? Let’s say Nintendo leaves them alone and the game comes into wide circulation. The general public playing that stuff will see it as a Metroid product. Any glitches, bad game design and controversial content will be attributed by them to the Metroid franchise and Nintendo.
And even if the product is the best Metroid ever it will remove a unique selling point for Nintendo hardware.
People doing these projects should do the math beforehand. There is no way this will ever workout good.
I imagine 98% of these that are shown when still incomplete were never going to be finished anyway
Yet there’s a whole website devoted to Mario fan games that has many many games on it….
And the browser version of Mario 64 hasn’t been taken down…….
@Chocobo_Shepherd what laws?? Sega has allowed fan made Sonic games for decades now, SNK has never done anything against all those Mugen games made with their King of Fighters sprites (and also logos), Toriyama and Toei said nothing against the fanmade Dragon Ball Multiverse (a project that probably made a lot of money btw to the people involved), what are you talking about?? Nintendo ise the only company that complains about a tiny Super Mario fan game made for the Commodere 64...
@Boshar usually in these fan games they state at the beginning that those are fan games, not affiliated to Sega, Nintendo, Capcom...your point is invalid.
@Chamver if people are so passionate to "waste their time" like that, why can't they do it?? Do you know that some games out there were born as fan games, but then they became their own things?? Of course you don't know..
@Luigisghost669 usually the developers write at the beginning of the game that that Is NOT a product made by Nintendo. What customers do they lose??
@MsJubilee Your logic basically boils down to people being evil for showing passion and love for a series. You're crazy.
@MegaVel91 You misread my message.
@Whitestrider
Yeah and people read EULA’s to. Just a screen you click through. Also if somebody streams the game on Twitch they will only see “hey it’s Metroid”.
If this team would be hired by Nintendo to make an official Metroid there would be endless meetings evaluations and forced improvements to the software until it would fit with Nintendo for its property.
Remember Nintendo threw out all the work Metroid Prime 4 and gave the job to another team just because they found the product was not good enough. The last thing they need is some wannabe game programmer amateurs to misuse their IP and game assets in some inferior product.
We know what's going to happen as any takedown article is written. The big corporation copyright defenders are going to be right there with the predictable "why don't they make their own game" complaints.
I think it's better to ignore those and enjoy having a world where fan games, ROM hacks and ROM translations exist. To think those haven't shaped the official developers is denial.
@Boshar people don't read EULAs because they are frigging long, can't you read a start screen?? Also, most people know well that new Nintendo games are available only on Nintendo consoles. Only little kids don't know that, little kids Who nowadays play games mostly on smartphones and consoles. Inferior products you say? Inferior to what? This fan game doesn't seem inferior to official products to me!!
@NEStalgia while I respect your opinion, I must ask for clarification, why shouldn't they be able to?
@MsJubilee ... I suppose I may have.
@1ofUs I agree. I don't like the implications of it, because it would also include stuff like unaltered ROMs for piracy. ROM hacks I personal think are fine and gamefreak doesn't seem too bothered with going after them but ROM hacks are few and far between anyways
@Boshar
"If you are a talented painter it’s no use copying Picasso, Van Gogh, Rembrandt or Kandinsky. You need to develop your own style and product.
As a professional game developer who's also been a programmer and working artist for the past nearly 30 years years, I look at it this way:
Such things are good EXERCISES, as they can teach you quite a bit. However, one does not make said exercises available for public consumption - especially if you've attempted 1:1 copies.
Put aside the issue of copyright for a moment. If you're riffing off of Picasso then that's one thing. What you're doing may well fall into the realm of fair use as it might be a form of parody or satire of some sort.
If your message or ultimate work stands on its own two feet then that's both technically and legally fine. TONS of works like that. In the game world, there are countless indie Metroidvania games that come dangerously close to being Castlevania sequels. However, they never claim to be and even put in the bare minimum effort to distance themselves from that property. That's the key difference here.
These fan project aren't riffing or parodying this material. They're presenting themselves as legitimate, albeit unapproved sequels, spinoffs, or remakes. THAT is the problem. Forget the ones who use or 1:1 copy preexisting assets. Those fellas are just straight up stupid.
That said, you can learn something from copying. Style can even grow from that point. Just don't put it out there until it can stand on its own.
@Whitestrider
People don’t read or care period. But hey why not make your own fighting game with Marvel versus DC characters. It’s wat the fans want. Just remember to put a disclaimer on the title screen. You’ll be fine. Perfectly legal.
@Juicy_MV It’s like saying if you create your own fan art that is original to your design you can claim it as yours but the character is based off of something that isn’t yours they wouldn’t just shut down the art you have just created.
@NEStalgia
>> "Technically fanfiction is infringement. It's unauthorized use of intellectual property. Companies let it go and it's now common. "
WRONG. Read your copyright law again. Companies aren't letting it go because they've given up or because it's harmless. They're letting it go because of FAIR USE. It really is that simple. Fair use allows for works to be parodied or satirized as it creates some form of commentary. This is why it's legal.
On the most basic level, fair use as it relates to satire or parody is there to protect things more lofty such as political cartoons or related material that makes a statement of some sort.
Applied to more trivial pursuits, it's also there to protect artistic expression even if said expression is "Scary Movie", which itself rips off tons of other movies toward a very specific comedic end.
Fan fiction is fair use. 100%.
IF, however, the companies feel that it damages their work to some significant degree then they can take it to court and leave it up to a judge. In reality, 99.9% of such cases will get tossed. You might have Mario railing Bowser in your story and a judge might agree that it's gross. However, they might also bring it back to fair use.
Why doesn't that happen all that often? $$$$$$ Money $$$$$
Companies have it. You don't. They may know that it's a losing case, but all they have to do is tie you up in court. Make you spend money that you don't have until you give up.
It's really easier than that these days. Cheaper too. All they have to do is send you a C&D to put the fear of Judge Judy into you. You'll give up in a heartbeat. If that doesn't work, they'll just scream "DMCA!!!" and have your stuff taken down without even a second thought from your host.
You're scared of C&Ds? Your hosting service is more "scared" of dealing with DMCA claims. Better to give in, give up, and give the claimant the benefit of the doubt. How many times have you seen this happen on YouTube for no reason, right?
Fan fiction isn't a problem, nor is it explicitly illegal. It is legally protected expression. Fair use. Read IP law.
Do many parties on both sides abuse or distort those laws? Sure. However, by the letter of the law, that fanfic stuff is protected even if it's about vampire Waluigi going after menstrual blood or some other disgusting crap.
Without fair use and parody, how many musical episodes of TV shows might not exist? ... ... Damn fair use.
@Boshar lol, I bet someone has already made it, it's just that Marvel or DC don't care about fan games, they don't see them as a potential threat like Nintendo, they aren't obsessed to eradicate fan made games like Nintendo!!
FWIW, freedom of speech and expression do NOT mean freedom from consequences.
You CAN scream fire in a crowded theater, but can also be prosecuted and jailed for creating a public hazard. You CAN scream that you're going to do "x" or "y" to some political official, but can have your legally life tossed upside down by the security detail that is there to protect them. You CAN see the most outrageous ***** on social media, but the public can also "cancel" you and make your life going forward a living hell.
In the spirit of fair use, even if you have the legal right to parody something, just be 100% sure that this a hill that you're prepared to defend and die on. Otherwise, think twice.
An unofficial Metroid sequel ISN'T fair use, but for a future metroidvania creators out there, be prepared to defend your stuff just in case. You have a right to create it, but they have every right to challenge it too. Be aware of that.
@Boshar look what I've found:
https://youtu.be/sEtOtLGimdQ
@Boshar
"But hey why not make your own fighting game with Marvel versus DC characters. It’s wat the fans want. Just remember to put a disclaimer on the title screen. You’ll be fine. Perfectly legal."
LOL No it's not. I seriously hope that you're not on the level here. I'm not sure that is even a borderline case either.
Fair use allows for a degree of derivation as long as you're creating something wholly new that can STAND ON ITS OWN with the purloined material removed. With a Marvel VS DC game, it cannot.
In such a case, you're using those characters as-is to derive a work that cannot stand on its own. Not really. The key selling point of that game is Marvel VS DC. Remove Marvel and DC characters and the key selling point is gone. Period.
Fan art is protected, but sometimes a wee bit dicey. Creating a Marvel VS DC type game with characters that you don't own and a mechanic that you likely just lifted off of Capcom... C'mon. REALLY?!? LOL
You don't own the trademarks or copyrights. You don't own the likenesses to these characters. You're not really creating something new from them, but are instead tossing them into an all too familiar sort of cookie cutter scenario.
Gotta say, it might be a fun exercise that you can put out there in video form. I just wouldn't put it out there as a demo or working game. Disclaimer or not. It WILL get pulled before you can say, "Snikt!"
Also, Warner Bros and Disney are mighty big companies and have their fingers in nearly every major pie on the planet.
If you ever want a job working in industries they have any sort of interest... Don't sh** where you eat. You might want leftovers. Don't try to die on that hill if you intend on being employable there.
@Whitestrider
"they don't see them as a potential threat like Nintendo"
YET. With Marvel/Disney making huge moves into interactive media, expect that stance to change really soon. WB/DC? They're too much of a clusterf**** atm. Too scattered. When they do eventually focus, they'll be as aggressive.
You don't get to be the size of Warner Bros or Disney without leaving a few "corpses" in your wake. Big businesses are built on the remains of many a crushed potential adversary and little guy.
@cookepuss Yawn
LOL. Maybe, but say that it isn't true.
FWIW, the games industry is not all that small of a pie to ignore. In 2019 movie box office receipts in the USA topped about $11Bil USD. In the same region, game sales for 2020 topped about $140Bil USD.
With budgets anywhere from 50%-90% smaller than films, can you blame Marvel/Disney for wanting a slice? Damn sure that they'll defend it when they have their own studio making games too.
We're well past the period when they'd just throw a license at LJN and take whatever money came from people who were happy to buy shovelware. The Avengers PC game sucks, but you don't know suck until you've played a NES era LJN Marvel game.
@CajunFires Paragraph 1: They haven't shut down the expos, that's doing much better than Nintendo would. If you don't like Christian Whitehead because he got to fulfill his dream and actually work on Sonic games officially, that's your problem.
Paragraph 2: Cool. That's your opinion. SEGA still didn't shut down the fan games expos during the 5 years prior to 2006, when quality dropped off the face of the earth.
Paragraph 3: Good for them. I haven't heard of it, and have no clue what you're talking about, so that argument is weak, because for all I know you could be talking about some flash game on Newgrounds.
But at this point I don't really care. You just seem to like being angy, and I don't want your negative energy.
@cookepuss fanfic (typically) is not parody, satire, reporting, or other fair use cases, it is a derivative work.
I'd concur that can be a fine line, but it is a live, regardless.
@Whitestrider It's called trademark law. If those other cases are you mentioned are not closed, those companies are taking a risk with the trademark of their IP. As with all law, breaking it does not always result in penalty. You can speed and not get caught, you can jaywalk and a police officer may decide not to act. But those are risks. Those companies are taking risks with the law, Nintendo tends not to. That's the difference.
@Chocobo_Shepherd Repeat after me: NO GAME COMPANY HAS EVER LOST A TRADEMARK BECAUSE OF A FAN GAME!
Its a shame, but not unexpected. Thank goodness Capcom aren't a bunch of hard-***** about it.
@nukatha I'm actually kind of surprised that Nintendo fans haven't learned to keep their hard worked fan projects between them and their friends.
@Noid Haha! Have you ever seen that rom hack of smb1 where all the coins are replaced with needles and many of the sprites are replaced with um...male anatomy?
@Expa0 Not as much as you think. They don't bat an eye towards fanfics, art projects, and musical covers, and some of those projects do get sold. Just games, and I'm inclined to think their intense vehemence as of late, has to do with those losers who decided to profit off roms and then had the nerve to try and sue. Because there were ridiculously immature rom hacks of Nintendo games and they stayed up for quite a while. There's also a few fan games and demos still kicking around that are years old.
@Juicy_MV True, although that doesn't address my point. It's not that Nintendo has no legal right or precedent to take down fan projects. Absolutely, it is. However, many people say it is required for Nintendo to take these projects down or else they risk losing control and ownership of their IP. If that is true, then Sega is either brazenly careless about that risk or the legal ramifications for allowing fan projects to proceed are not as bad as people think. Sega doesn't seem to be hurting from their decision to be so open. Meanwhile Nintendo is incurring tons of bad publicity by taking projects down.
Which company is making the better move?
Not sure. I tend to fall of the side of the consumer rather than the company, however.
@Whitestrider Others, including myself, have already explained it to you. If you wish to remain ignorant, that's your call. So I'm done trying to help you. If you want to learn the law, just go look it up. This is publicly available knowledge.
@Chocobo_Shepherd you have explained nothing nor provided any proofs about what you're saying.
@Brink the truth is that no company need to defend their IPs from fan made games (or other stuff), those that make it are just over-protective.
@Cia By your "logic," where was your "imagination to do something original" "instead of stealing Nintendo" when you chose your username and avatar? I guess @sanderev and the other bootlickers should report you to Nintendo for being a dirty rotten thief!
@Whitestrider I did. You just chose to ignore it. Far be it for me to understand why someone would want to remain ignorant.
The thing about trademarks is that a company can not pick and choose when to enforce them. If nintendo let's this exist then they have much harder time to defend their IP in the future. Someone else can make a game and then point at this and ask why is this being allowed if theirs isn't. In years there might soon be dozens of fan projects watering down the IP. After this their trademark is worthless and they can not enforce it anymore.
For many companies, trademarks are important business assets built through goodwill and reputation.However, a failure to enforce a trademark by monitoring the mark for misuses will result in a weakening of the mark and loss of distinctiveness, which can lead to a loss of the trademark.
@Clarice thats not what a fan game is. thats just making a game in the same genre
@cookepuss perfect. Everybody needs to read your reply:
"As a professional game developer who's also been a programmer and working artist for the past nearly 30 years years, I look at it this way:
Such things are good EXERCISES, as they can teach you quite a bit. However, one does not make said exercises available for public consumption - especially if you've attempted 1:1 copies.
Put aside the issue of copyright for a moment. If you're riffing off of Picasso then that's one thing. What you're doing may well fall into the realm of fair use as it might be a form of parody or satire of some sort.
If your message or ultimate work stands on its own two feet then that's both technically and legally fine. TONS of works like that. In the game world, there are countless indie Metroidvania games that come dangerously close to being Castlevania sequels. However, they never claim to be and even put in the bare minimum effort to distance themselves from that property. That's the key difference here.
These fan project aren't riffing or parodying this material. They're presenting themselves as legitimate, albeit unapproved sequels, spinoffs, or remakes. THAT is the problem. Forget the ones who use or 1:1 copy preexisting assets. Those fellas are just straight up stupid.
That said, you can learn something from copying. Style can even grow from that point. Just don't put it out there until it can stand on its own."
Protect your IP or risk losing it.
It's that simple.
Here's the thing with fan-games. They are never, ever, ever, going to compete with the real thing.
If people are playing fan-games, chances are they are going to be a fan themselves, and are still going to buy whatever new game is going to come out next, or are currently coming out.
But, if someone who doesn't play the games tries out the fan project, the worst it's going to do is nothing. If not, it will drum up hype for whatever is the next official release.
All taking down fan games does is deny the clear talent of developers, and makes bad press for Nintendo.
@Frobodobo Bunch of bullmanure...
@Iggy-Koopa A multibillion company will never lose their IPs...
@Whitestrider What? You could have taken 3seconds to fact check me on google but decided to just pull something out of you äss.
Here's a list of products that where trademarks but got watered down because they became too popular and where not defended. It happens all the time.
https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/15-product-trademarks-that-have-become-victims-of-genericization/
@Frobodobo lol, this doesn't have anything to do with fan games or fan products...
@Frobodobo btw, look at Dragon Ball Multiverse, nobody has sent them any C&D letter, despite them using the Dragon Ball trademark and its many copyrighted characters. They don't need to defent their IPs, they are going strong anyway!
@Whitestrider It's doing fine right now, but 30-40years down the line who knows what the state of dragon ball is if they keep letting people using it for free.
And the examples i gave is actually companies making products for profit using a name that once was a trademark. Its much worse than a "fan" product for no profit and yet it is indeed legal because the trademark was watered down
@Frobodobo Nothing will happen, nothing will change, even if there were dozens of Dragon Ball fan made products it wouldn't change a thing!! Dragon Ball is not an aspirin or a freesbie!!
@Whitestrider and you are basing this on...
@Frobodobo and you are basing it on what?? On some cases that don't have anything to do with FAN MADE GAMES!! Show me some STRONG evidence that A SINGLE FAN game could make a company lose their trademarks...
Show me a single evidence that a fan made Super Mario game for Commodore 64 could hurt Nintendo in a meaningful way!!
@Whitestrider it's not about one fan game but where do you draw the line? 1 game? 5? 20? If you allow these things to exist you set a presedence where it is ok. Nintendo games are so popular people keep making fan games and at some point when theres 20different pokemon fan games it becomes more difficult to suddenly tell others they can't do it. The trademark is then considered watered down and you can't get it back at that point.
How are the examples any different? If enough metroid games are made by others then one can argue that it's just a genre of game at this point.
@Frobodobo Wth does it mean "watered down"?? It's not a legal term, It means nothing for the laws!! Stop spouting nonsense!
@Whitestrider https://www.justia.com/intellectual-property/trademarks/trademark-dilution/
Just try google, trust me. It's a place where you can find information
@Frobodobo again that doesn't have anything to do with fan made stuff...try again (or don't)
@Frobodobo also this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Official_Star_Wars_Fan_Film_Awards
Of course after Disney aquired Lucasfilm it was discontinued...
Watered down my assets!
@Whitestrider Wrong.
You Can Lose Your IP Rights if Not Enforced.
"If you don't take adequate or sufficient, reasonable means to protect and enforce your IP, then you run the risk of losing your IP rights. What is sufficient and reasonable action is not always clear; it depends on the situation. But, suffice it to say, if you know someone is using your IP without your authorization, you should promptly look into it to determine what, if anything, should and needs to be done so that you don't lose one of your most important business assets – your valuable intellectual property" - Timothy K Kroninger, an actual partner in an actual law firm.
Same applies here, so of course Nintendo's law team will go after them. It really doesn't matter how long it would take for it to happen, the fact ot could still happen is basis enough for a C&D.
@Iggy-Koopa yeah, you could surely lose your trademark over a fan game...
Come on, be serious!! As I've already said no company will ever lose anything because a fan made work!! NO WAY!!
If works made with stolen IP (i.e without permission) are deisgned to occupy the same space as the original work, then the original owner absolutely has a right to take it down. Fanfiction rarely occupies the same space as the original work.
Is funny how we have this double standards in the artists and gaming communities. Whether you're in DeviantArt art, tiktok or itch.io the second someone tempers or takes another's artist work without permission everyone comes in arms to protect the artist who's work was messed with. So why is it that it is ok when is done to a major corporation??? Remember Nintendo compromised of hundreds of people who work day and night in this projects some of them are still there since the NES era, this IPs are their blood, tears, and life's work. Enough with this fan arrogance of entitlement, bottom line is this IPs belong to a company, people, that have pour their life into this projects and no one has permission to do what they like just because they are a long time "Fan". As an artist and developer, I wouldn't like people messing with my work just because they believe they have every right too because they are a "fan", that entitlement is not justifiable. Ask permission. Period. If it's not yours don't touch it, do your own damn art and work. So if you don't have the common decency of asking permission, no matter who you are and who you are asking then don't start acting like a victim when things don't go your way just because you refuse to do things right knowing damn right that what you're doing is wrong. No, been a "FAN" or consumer doesn't entitled you to a damn thing besides getting what you paid for. =:3
@Whitestrider why are you so mad? How is a game any different than any other product. An ip is an ip, the law doesn't differentiate between goods or services. These ips are worth millions so why risk losibg it just so you dont hurt someones feelings who should have the 2 brain cells required to know that this would happen. Look at axiom verge. Totally a metroid game but he was smart enough to call it something else.
@Quix So yeah, It's like fanart wouldn't be allowed at all, when we all know nobody has ever sent a C&d lettera for any fan art on the web...
@Frobodobo for the last time, they DON'T RISK LOSING ANYTHING. The only thing they risk losing is their reputation, too bad Nintendo fanboys like you are so loyal abd have only 1 brain cell...
@Whitestrider again, why are you mad? Is this your project? I am the one presenting evidence and your argument is "no, because i am angry and i am using the most caps lock so i am correct". You haven't presented a single argument as to why the things i'm presenting are not relevant.
@Frobodobo no, you have talked only about aspirins and freesbies so far...
No real evidences that a fan game could do what you say. Because it's silly to even think that a super Mario game made for the ancient commodore 64 could mean anything for the Super Mario franchise, not even the dozens of Pokémon fan hacks mean anything for the main series, and now this fan project. But yeah, keep doing the pr job in Nintendo's Place for free, maybe you'll get a prize in the future for this. The only thing sure is that we won't get a good (fan) game anymore, because of Nintendo, and also thanks to people like you. Thanks for nothing. In the meantime I'll avoid the Metroid official releases like the pest.
@Whitestrider Let's try a different approach. Why do you think Nintendo is doing this? There's always bad pr associated cos people like you don't understand how a business works. They need to pay a laywer to write the letter and follow up etc. Doing nothing would be easier and cheaper. The point of a company is to make money. Why would you say they are doing this? What is the motive?
@Frobodobo I don't really care. Goodbye.
@Whitestrider gg wp. I do agree on one thing. Nintendo isn't the fuzzy company they want people to see them as. I'm not arguing what they are doing is necessarily moraly right. But business wise it is, and thats the only thing they care about.
"Yeah Mr. N I know you get paid for letting people take pictures with your ponies; but as long as I'm letting people take pictures for free, it should be okay if I break into your ranch and take them for a ride. After all, kids in town have been missing them, and since you've been busy with the racing horses, I should be allowed to."
I'm indifferent to the games themselves, but it's completely reasonable for Nintendo to do what they are doing. I'm just wondering why anyone is still trying to do this if Nintendo is just gonna come after them?
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