Epic Games and Apple are currently exchanging blows in court, as you'll no doubt be aware. Fortnite maker Epic is asserting that Apple's App Store is essentially a money-grabbing monopoly and is harming the games industry, and to prove the point, Epic founder Tim Sweeney produced a Switch console during the trial.
Why would this help Epic's case, you ask? Well, his intention was to show that smartphone gaming via an iOS device is much easier when you're out-and-about than using a console like the Nintendo Switch, which lacks its own online connection – and that means Apple holds the keys to a massive global audience. Sweeney stated that he'd often used his smartphone to play during a commute to work, but with the Switch, he would require a second device – like a smartphone – to connect to, as well as WiFi.
However, Sweeney ended up fiddling with the Switch Joy-Con during the demonstration and failing to physically connect it to the Switch itself. Oops. This rather undermined his argument, as it proved that he has had limited interaction with the Switch (the world's leading portable gaming device), and it could therefore be argued that he isn't able to give a totally accurate statement on whether console gaming is harder (or easier) than smartphone gaming when you're on the move.
As he fumbled with the console and its controller, Sweeney said, "As you can see, I’m not a Switch player," to which U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers replied, "Well, now the world knows. That’s alright, neither am I."
The case is due to run for three weeks. Sweeney has already been forced to admit that the 30 percent cut taken by Apple on the App Store is the same as the percentage taken by Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo on their digital storefronts, but Epic isn't challenging those companies because it believes in "subsidized hardware."
[source bloomberg.com]
Comments 56
I would ever prefer a second device to play instead to use my Smartphone.
My Smartphone is primary a Communication and Information Device.
I'll not waste the Battery to play.
Also, it is not as stable as a dedicated Device or proper PC with multi tasking.
A answered call or Massage and it closes the Game in the Background because 4gb of ram are not enough.
This Apple/Epic trial is an endless source of fun. Inside informations galore, and so many silly moments.
I have a feeling this will lead to Apple win the lawsuit. As founder, he should be flexible when it comes to their market.
Is this another thing Sony pays him for? the guy laps up Sony any chance he gets.
@neufel
To be fair Damo covered it in his article so I deleted my comment!
@TheFullAndy No problem, out of context this information is indeed beyond silly.
@neufel
The whole thing is one big mess, but an entertaining one!
Nintendo don’t use software sales to subsidise their hardware. I can’t see Epic winning this case, but it’ll be interesting to see what else pops up. Maybe the Xbox boss can take the stand to show that he does know how to use the Switch the he keeps on his shelf?
It's like two children are fighting. In other countries there is war and die people, eg Kurds and we have Apple & Epic having a brawl.
I don't play Fortnite waiting for the bus.
To me personally, a smartphone is for communication and not for gaming. Though I use a DS and PSP emulator for games I cannot on play on current platforms, I would still use a controller + bracket/stand. Spent some time on touchscreen gaming back in the ipod touch early generations and I have to say the quality of mobile games (save for graphics) nowadays aren't what it used to be. I guess its because everything adapted the freemium model for monetization whereas you had to purchase games before as you would normally do on a dedicated game console.
As you can see, I’m not a Fortnite player.
As you can see, the Switch runs Fortnite the worst.
Surely his argument was undermined by the fact this "evidence" was 100% anecdotal anyway?
"As you can see, sometimes like in the once specific case that proves my point, my point is proven. I rest my case"
We fans are ones to accuse others' debates and arguments of silliness, but I'm tempted to concur for once. The head of a growing video game giant is the last person I'd expect to claim "Switch lacks its own online connection" as opposed to... smartphones? Any iOS device's internet capability comes from either the same Wi-Fi or from registering and enabling a mobile service AND mobile data exchange... which can arguably sound like Wi-Fi with extra steps. Without it all, your iPhone or an Android phone or a Switch has no online connection "of its own" - just the tech that supports one.
Switch may need a second device for tethering in the absence of decent public hotspots (was Sweeney more benevolent towards Vita?), but it's a device few people in the Switch audience - and pretty much zero people of Sweeney's caliber - would be ever caught leaving their houses without.
Who needs Netflix when we have court cases
@Azuris
"A answered call or Massage and it closes the Game in the Background because 4gb of ram are not enough."
I wish my phone were smart enough to give me massages too.
So epic is going to lose this lol
I doubt him not being a "Switch player" is going to hurt the momentum of Fortnite on the platform, nor sales of the hardware itself. Sweeney just strikes me as getting his product out on as many devices as possible as to fleece... I mean play it.
There's a great article written by a lawyer on MacStories about this lawsuit. It's a good read for anyone looking for that kind of insight.
https://www.macstories.net/stories/epic-versus-apple-the-macstories-overview/
@Azuris "A answered call or Massage and it closes the Game in the Background because 4gb of ram are not enough."
I'm not sure what phone you have, but mine plays games at higher resolutions and frame rates than my switch does. I can't say how fortnite runs on either as I don't really as F2P games.
“The worlds leading portable gaming-only device” fixed that for you.
As nice as the Switch or any console is today, they are completely dwarfed by mobile gaming (some numbers pegs it as 4x as large).
Sure, that we gamers prefer to call “proper games” (myself included) are more based around consoles or computer, but to ignore the size and importance of mobile gaming is just going to make a fool out of yourself.
I suppose it's true though, Switch is not an ideal platform for portable online gaming. For offline games, sure, but having to bring another device just to connect to the internet is cumbersome.
Now, I have no idea how this would've helped in court. But I understand his point.
Doesn't this prove his point though? He doesn't play on Switch because it's 'easier' to play directly on a device connecting to the internet... therefore he isn't Switch player because, as he stated, he plays on his smartphone - of which Apple "holds the keys to a massive global audience".
Unless I'm missing something (entirely likely) his fumbling the Switch entirely proves the point he's making?
Oh look, the rich guy doesn't own a Nintendo Switch or a PS5. I wouldn't know this without your slam dunk public re- "article".
Now can we all forgot that non important part where he's attempting to appear human in order to get a bigger cut of his dope profits.
I seriously hope you guys are getting paid though.
Struggles to put on glove...
“If the glove don’t fit, you must acquit!”
Slides glove off without effort.
@Itsacardgame
Exactly what I thought it’s so obvious too so no surprise the article fails to make this connection.
In other news, water remains wet
This whole thing is far more valuable in comedy gold than I ever imagined it could possibly be.
@Itsacardgame I came here to post nearly that exact thing! As I'm reading this I'm experiencing deja vous to that whole circus. Of course, probably only 20% of us here were even alive when that happened. I think of it as "recent". Most people here probably have it filed in their brains next to the Peloponnesian War.
@nhSnork To be fair, in the US, few data plans include a meaningful amount of hotspot bandwidth for gaming. And, ironically, the better your phone plan, the worse your hotspotting ability. A low tier plan may give you 5, 10, 15, 20GB/mo hotspot. An "unlimited" top-tier plan will give you unlimited on-phone data, but either very very little hotspot data to tether other devices to, or "unlimited" hotspots - throttled to dialup speeds or worse. Device tethering is almost a non-service here unless you buy a separate hotspot plan that usually is still very limited and very expensive. The telcos don't want to sell modem plans, at all, outside corporate plans where they have special offerings. Sweeney actually had a point to make...but he didn't actually try to make it for some bizarre reason.
@Dethmunk My take on the whole lawsuit has always been that it's really a put-up by the controlling-share owning Tencent, a.k.a Chinese government d.b.a. Tencent waging war against their Western rival Apple via Epic in a way that becomes ever more awkward the more they try to argue a point that one company doing the same thing as several other companies is somehow problematic while it's perfectly acceptable from the other companies (one of which also owns a stake in Epic.)
This is just plane fun at this point LOL.
Well, a lot of people are not wii u players either.
This situation is like a soap opera at this point. Only without half the cast marrying each other a dozen times.
While I'm certainly not a fan of Apple and make it a point to not use their products (outside of when it's rarely necessary for my job), I really do hope they win this case. A 30% cut of the profits off their storefront is standard. I feel what Epic did to try and get around this was childish and unethical. Even worse, they tried to frame it like they're the good guy to their userbase. They care MUCH more about their own bottom line than whether someone saves a few bucks pouring money into THEIR game.
He couldn't attach the joycon? Does he have brain damage?! A 5 year old can figure it out in a couple seconds!
Reason number 464 why CEOs are no better than anyone else and don't deserve a fraction of the money they extort.
The only reason I'm even remotely interested in this case is because I hate Apple and I really want that dreadful company to get hurt. It's so full of itself and is a bad influence on other companies.
@DrDaisy
This case goes against Apple and it could severely hurt Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft along with it.
There could be serious ramifications.
Him not even knowing how to put the joy cons on proves that he isn’t exactly the the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to the switch and probably only touched it once or twice
@Abweegee or flat out this is his first time
@Azuris Well said and that's what I think as well. I have literally zero interest in gaming on my cell phone as its already used for a thousand other things.
@DrDaisy apple is a terrible company but then again so is epic they both lack any kind of moral compass
@serouj2000 @Abweegee What kind of idiot goes on a witness stand to testify to the defense of their own accusations without even cursory knowledge of the evidence they supplied to do so? And what council actually lets their client take the stand with supporting evidence they're entirely unfamiliar with?? Everything about this defies all reason. At a certain point you're just making a mockery of the court. We're past that point with this.
Though it still implies it's not really Sweeny's case, but he's just following marching orders from certain stake holders.
It reminds me of Nintendo using Congress to attack Sega in the court of moral public opinion. But Howard Lincoln was way better at using the legal system as a blunt weapon. Slimy as all getup, but more skilled.
@NEStalgia Well, considering the manufacturer of the Switch is the literal definition of defying all reason, I wouldn't be surprised.
The article is incorrect. Phone gaming is bigger than the switch. Its bigger than all consoles and PC combined.
I'd still prefer ZZT or Jill of the Jungle over the trash that is Fortnite.
I haven't enjoyed an Epic game since Jazz Jackrabbit 2, and that was over 2 decades ago.
@Silly_G Unreal 1 was very unique and immersive for its time. I'd love a real sequel (and not that horrible "sequel" they eventually contracted out to make) And Gears more or less defined the feel of a cover shooter. So they have two other stand-out titles (albeit one was funded and produced by MS) But yeah, after Jazz 2 they mostly became an engine tech company more than a games company. Fortnite notwithstanding.
"And as you can see, I couldn't care less about Fortnite."
Admits Nintendo Life's Devin Rex.
I hope Apple wins this one. Arguing that App Store's 30% cut somehow hurts Epic, while it's less that 10% of Fortnites revenue, with all those other platforms available as an alternative, is just ridiculous. Apple is in their own right to do as they please as a private company.
It's like complaining that paying taxes reduces your income. Yet we all do it, because its beneficial for us. The security of the App Store is one of iPhone's selling points. Allowing anyone to install any app they want will greatly compromise the security of the system, which in turn would drive people away from the platform, thus reducing the revenue Epic gets from iPhone users in the long run.
At least Apple has a clear motive (i.e. security & safety) behind them, instead of Epic's "WE WANT MOAR MONEYY" reasoning.
@Dethmunk I suspect Sweeney might actually have been working as a proxy for somebody else. There are a number of companies like Amazon, Spotify, Netflix, etc, who all view Apple’s customers as incredibly valuable, but also run their businesses in extremely thin margins or even run their businesses at a loss.
Apple is like Nintendo in that they don’t do loss leaders. They do have some apps and features that they just make free as a perk of being on their platforms, but they don’t try and bait and switch you in by making hardware seem cheaper than it is.
There are a lot of companies with much more toxic business practices who resent this.
I doubt this guy has ever even played a video game, mobile or otherwise.
@Mr-Fuggles777
The overall perfermance isn't my Point
It is more that "smart" Devices aren't as smart and can't handle Multitasking as a dedicated Device or more traditional Computer.
If it thinks you use something to much, it closes you Apps in the Background.
Games as Final Fantasy 1 shouldn't be as demanding that the System can handle this and a call at the same Time.
The other Problem is, that a simple Firmware Update could hinder you from Playing the Game.
Or to have "the wrong Device" .
Thats not a Problem caused by little Publishers, Square Enix for Example just doesn't patch some Games and they don't support newer Android Versions, Nintendo (Pokemon company) has a very small support of Devices for the Pokemon TCG.
Why can't i play a purchased Game on my Phone, Tablet and my Android TV (Sony)?
Also, you can't backup your Save Games easily.
I can extract the Savegames from my Super Nintendo Games with a Retrode2, backup my whole PS3 and my 3DS/Wii U on USB Sticks, but not my Final Fantasy Savegames from a Android device i can easily plug in over USB?
The whole Thing is just to unreliable.
If i really need something to play, Freedoom, ScummVM and Retroarch enable me to play Stuff i've played back than on a Dos Machine
I can even backup the Savegames
@samuraicop Apple has stated numerous times they took the 30% directly from the retail playbook too.
My fear, if Epic wins, what's to stop them from going after everyone else now. Their lawsuit includes Google as well. After Epic pulled their stunt with Apple, Google made huge changes to their Play Store and got their legal team ready. Epic did decide they were going to take them to court too.
Sweeney is greedy. He isn't any different from Bezos, he wants to own it all. He doesn't care about consumers, he's just waiting to hit us all back for those free games he gave away on PC.
As You Can See, I'm Not A Forenight Player, so let's call it even Mr. Sweeney!
Its tricky, an iphone is between a pc and a console. Apple should keep a percentage of payments but it should be around 15% instead of 30%
About the only thing a iphone is good for when it comes to gaming is candy crush and pokemon go.
Ever since this lawsuit started; my thoughts were that Epic Games were being idiotic when it comes to bypassing IAP royalties and insisting Apple and Google were playing foul by removing Fortnite because of it.
With Spotify; I don't see why having an aneurism over not being the first result when looking up “music” on the app store and Apple having their own service is justified, especially when Apple has better royalties per stream, and both being bested Soundcloud and Google on such things.
@Jeaz just because someone clicks on some candy crush doesn't really justify the gamer tag. Plus, most mobile gaming is free to play adwarish garbage. Finally this year we see lots of cool gaming phones from China so it can change the landscape soon. But that was based on how great the switch was since many of those phones will shine when they are plugged into bigger monitors just like the switch which makes them not very mobile at that point.
@nkarafo and in America we have grown women in their late 20s and 30s forcing themselves on little boys from 11.5 to 14 and then being rewarded child support. Search the net of “Olivas and Seyer” for the horrible details of that bit of systemic sexism.
On top of that, US troops are already scattered all over the globe since one of political parties loves sending their citizens in foreign war zones and then never withdrawing.
As you can see, I'm not an Epic player.
Interepret that the way you want.
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