Last week's Indie World Direct was a showcase full of ingenuity, creativity, and excitement, as independent developers from across the world announced their games for the Nintendo Switch, often in their native languages. It wasn't just twenty minutes of new games - it was a celebration of diversity, and of game development as a global, uniting force.
Aerial_Knight — a Black artist and creator from Detroit, real name Neil Jones, who describes himself as an "avid sleeper, food & anime lover" on his Twitter bio — was one of those developers enjoying the triumph of being on-screen to announce his game for Nintendo's console. Afterwards, he shared with his followers that the Switch reveal of his debut game was a hard-won success:
The game, described as a "narrative runner", is called Aerial_Knight's Never Yield. The choice to include his handle was a conscious branding decision, and one that speaks to the current state of games. "A lot of the time players don't know who made a game," he says, over Discord. "I wanted to people to know my handle, and use that name recognition to find my other games I might make in the future."
The game is joyously committed to its aesthetic (check out the trailer below if you missed it). Set in a Tokyo-esque Detroit, your character — a young Black runner named Wally, kitted out in a hoodie, jeans, and trainers — catapults his body over police barriers, breaks through road blocks, and slides under drones. The colours are loud and vibrant, clashing pinks and yellows in a mirror-shard kaleidoscope of dynamic action.
There's a lot of environmental storytelling going on without a single word, including the funk-hip-hop soundtrack by Detroit artist Daniel Wilkins. "He was my first and only choice," says Aerial_Knight, who has known Wilkins since childhood. The presence of police, too, is hard to ignore, as their vans and drones chase you, and their guns aim at you, although we're told that things aren't what they appear at first. "I try to leave the story open for people to come up with their own game theory about what's really going on," says Aerial_Knight, "but I will say the "people" after Wally aren't cops."
"I try to aim away from anything too realistic or sad and keep it fun," he adds.
Aerial_Knight's enthusiasm and optimism is infectious and, perhaps, surprising given the relentless struggle he has faced breaking into the industry. "I had about three real interviews in about seven years of looking," he tells us. "There are a lot of people out there like me that just have to do a lot more work to get in the door."
His experience appears to be far from an isolated one. A 2019 survey by the International Game Developers Association found that just 2% of surveyed IGDA members in the US game industry identified as Black, African-American, African, or Afro-Caribbean — and those numbers are the lowest of any racial identity included in the survey, suggesting a huge underrepresentation of Black game developers in the industry.
I had about three real interviews in about seven years of looking. There are a lot of people out there like me that just have to do a lot more work to get in the door.
"I went to school to learn game dev," says Aerial_Knight of his early days in games. "I spent a lot of time teaching myself before focusing on the art side of things." His upcoming game began as a side project in 2019 while working "crappy" day jobs to earn a living. He planned to give up on game development after a year of working on it, but instead he ended up appearing on-screen in a Nintendo Direct watched by millions.
The involvement of publisher Headup enabled him to expand on his ideas. "I never really went looking for funding for this project. I built it on my own for the most part then only when I luckily got a publisher did I decide to add a few more features and levels. I can't speak on how all of that played out but [email protected] offered a lot of help funding additional development."
Aerial_Knight first got a taste of coding through Neopets, and many aspiring developers probably have similar stories; learning HTML through a blog, playing around with C# on Unity, making something small and crappy on RPGMaker. All of these tools have one thing in common: they're free and available to anyone who can access a computer with internet. Kids these days have more coding options available to them that are even more beginner-friendly, such as Minecraft's Redstone and Command Blocks. "I would tell [young gamers] to play with things like Roblox and Dreams - I wish I had those tools when I was a kid," says Aerial_Knight. "As long as you're doing something you enjoy and learning, then you're doing good."
Suda51 was a particular inspiration when he was younger, but now Aerial_Knight himself is potentially a role model for game devs younger than him. As evidenced by the replies to his tweet, developers and players alike reacted to the trailer and announcement with excitement, not just for the game, but also for seeing a young creator they support and identify with centre stage on a global platform. "I'm glad I could be a part of making more people feel represented," he says. The reception so far to the game, he adds, has been "really good".
"I really wish we [could see] more mixed groups of characters working together," he says of modern games. "[And] we definitely need more Black women game characters." The first Black video game character Aerial_Knight recalls seeing was Afro Thunder from Ready 2 Rumble Boxing, a Nintendo 64-era title that featured Thunder on the box cover ("He was so cool."). Seeing predominantly white lead characters in games over and over again, or even a character creator that doesn't allow for Black hairstyles (which is most of them), can be demoralising, and he notes that the representation of Black protagonists in games in general "could be better lol".
When thinking about people who, like him, struggled to get into the industry, Aerial_Knight mourns the loss of what could have been. "I think [the lack of diversity in games] is just something that's built-in, and that's why it's so hard to fix," he comments. "We'll never know how many people there were out like me over the last 20 years but who just never found a way in. They could have made something incredible if only given the chance, or even running studios by now. We'll never get that time for growth or those people back now."
Being on a Nintendo Direct is an incredible, exciting thing for any young developer, especially one making a game almost entirely on his own. It's clear that Aerial_Knight is thrilled about what comes next — one look at his Infinity Gauntlet-styled tweet (above) makes that pretty clear — but he wants people to take notice in more ways than one.
"If I could make this game with nothing," he says at the end of our chat, "imagine what people better than me could do with just a little support from the industry and gamers."
Aerial_Knight's Never Yield is out on Switch eShop (and other platforms) on 19th May — there's a free demo available to download now.
Okay, first off, I wanna give the guy props for doing hard work and getting where he is today. He wanted to make games, put in the work, and now he's got a game out. That's fabulous.
The only thing that kinda bugs me is the way he points out how black representation is low in game development.
Now, I'm no expert in this, but I feel like having a significant representation of black people in most jobs would be hard because we're a minority... Then, you'd have to factor in how many black kids growing up actually want to get into game development in the first place.
He also comments on some of the struggles he had getting his game made and how the games industry kept rejecting him. I don't think he explained why he thought that was. Did he pitch his game poorly? Was it his race? What happened?
Either way, I wish him the best. If the game is good and is something I wanna buy then I might pick it up.
What an inspirational article and also developer. I want to support this guy and will be buying his game.
If the game is well received I will buy it just to support the man and the efforts he made.
This is the true indie spirit. Somebody not giving up when the industry knocks them back and really doing it themselves. I’m tempted to get it just to support the guy. 2% is a shameful number and I hope it will change. Honestly, looking at the demographics of the coders coming up through uni these days, it should get better in the next several years.
"a Black artist and creator from Detroit"
Was it necessary to specify? What is the purpose by typing like that? You could only write that artist and creator.
@Kalmaro 3 real interviews in 7 years of looking despite having ‘went to school to learn game dev’ is abnormal to the point that it’s actually worrying. I can honestly say that I’ve had more interviews just this year for industrial placements despite graduating next year. It would be interesting to see if there are more people like him with that sort of experience. It’s just another industry after all and we’ve seen these sort of stories from black workers across many lines of work.
@nessisonett And it's unfortunate that it took that long, if that's true, I just wonder if it was because of race or something else. It feels like I don't have enough data to take a real position on this yet.
Uh oh, a futuristic Detroit that culturally appropriates the look of Japan??
Sounds very problematic to me.
@nessisonett I’m willing to bet real money that he has had more than 3 interviews in 7 years.
I was following this game since before I knew it was coming to Switch. This is an exciting experience!!! I like to imagine it takes place in the same world as No More Heroes
Also a shout out to Indie directs, they always do a good job highlighting these smaller projects. See also Mulaka
I get it and all and props to him for his determination on his game, but it just kinda comes off super egotistical to put your name in the title of the game.
Also I don’t think a character being black should be considered a big selling point.
@Blooper987 Sid Meier’s Civilization.
@Blooper987 The name being in the title I don't stress about. Like, no one cared when Tony Hawk did it, though he's also Tony Hawk so... Yeah.
For me, it's the race of the character that's gets to me. If it was a white dude, that would be considered racist if they announced proudly that the lead character was white.
Cool concept but I’ve played enough endless runners that I probably won’t touch this one
@Kalmaro First off, diversity in gaming is a real issue. You don't even have to look at the numbers behind the scenes to see that. The games themselves tell you the story. So it isn't like he's pulling this issue out of thin air. I also think its made quite clear why he thinks he's had a tough time breaking through.
And I'm no expert either. But I would imagine there are probably a good number black kids interested in game development and quite a few more who may discover they are interested if the industry (as a whole) was truly invested in diversifying and took the initiative to go out and find and foster that talent. Not every kid knows what they want to do the minute they're out of the womb. Sometimes, it takes the experts making the effort to identify and pointing out those qualities.
To be fair, if we are to put gaming up on par of importance with other forms of entertainment, then its really no surprise gaming has a diversity issue. As a whole, the entertainment industry still isn't doing enough. That's behind the scenes and in front of the camera.
@Kalmaro That's the thing. It wouldn't be announced proudly because for as long as we have known, that has been the default in gaming. It just would have been. So to suggest that pointing out that the character is black is any kind of way a problem is extremely disingenuous
I thought Aerial_Knight was the name of the character considering how he moves and the gameplay would make that an apt description.
It would be great if more indie devs put their names in titles. It's part of the joy of playing indie games is knowing how personal the project is and, as as Aerial_Knight says, it can connect you with their other work.
I'll add my two cents, if I may:
"Significant representation" in this case means "proportional representation." For instance, if 13.4% of the United States identifies as Black, African-American, African, or Afro-Caribbean, we should expect the same or a similar level of representation within the US game industry. For it to be just 2%, we can reasonably assume this is too big of a gap to call it purely coincidental.
As you pointed out, it could just be that not many Black youth are interested in video game development. You're probably right, but the question is why. As this article pointed out, Black representation in video games is disproportionately low. Kids will often attach to role models or figures with whom they share characteristics (albeit not always). Along these lines, kids will also pursue careers or hobbies in which they feel their culture/identity is accepted and represented. To offer an example, this is why the US has so many STEM programs targeted toward girls in order to make them feel represented in the field and welcomed.
On top of this, systemic racism has had an impact on which careers individuals may choose. As seen in this article, the US Census Bureau shows that both Black and Hispanic communities disproportionately experience poverty compared to other races (although this article points out the poverty is down overall!). For individuals experiencing poverty, the concept of "you can be anything when you grow up" is less feasible than for those who experience more financial stability. These homes may not have parents who went to college or graduated high school. As such, the message to these children may not be to go to college and get a degree (although it may still be encouraged). The message may be instead to find a stable job as soon as possible. As such, for a child experiencing poverty, being a video game developer may not be practical or even considered.
Much of what I'm talking about is rooted in systems theory, and not everybody agrees with my perspective. However, I hope it offers another lens! I personally don't know if Aerial_Knight experienced hardship based on his race when developing his game, and I personally won't question his experience. Ultimately, I'm glad he was able to reach his dream!
@JokerCK It is. He's black and he's an artist and content creator from Detroit. It also helps to establish context and background with the story, behind the game and its development.
@Kalmaro the point is that there aren’t enough black lead characters out there, so it becomes a selling point.
Whilst I don’t think it’s essential for someone to see their character as representing them for the game to be good (I can love Sonic games without being a hedgehog), having a sea of faces that have been consciously designed to look white is going to cause resentment.
Case in point: there’s 80+ characters in Smash Ultimate. Taking out the 30+ animals, there are still 50 “human”-shaped fighters, and they’re ALL white (and only a third or so are female, and most of them have male alts).
@gaga64 "the point is that there aren’t enough black lead characters out there"
That's your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm curious if we could ever say, objectively "this is how many of such and such race we need in any one game".
Personally, that sounds like we are just throwing in people of certain races just to make people happy, verses what the developer wants to do and what fits their story. Not every game has to have black people. Not every game even has an Africa.
@UmbreonsPapa "But I would imagine"
Well hold on, we're going off what you believe, not the facts. I'm not saying what you believe doesn't matter or anything, just that I'm mostly interested in what studies or reports we have that shows that companies are going out of their way to keep certain races out.
That said, @Solomon_Rambling we most certainly would have more black kids in the game development world if we focused on it in school. Right now most of what I see in school is sports and.... Mostly sports in teh communities I've noticed.
@Kalmaro Unfortunately, sports and athletics programs are the first to get cut from public school systems. I agree with your sentiments, and I’m sure you are prepared for the usual backlash associated with them. I love diversity, and I think the world is doing a good job of natural diversity. I agree with you that just making a character a certain color for colors sake is silly. Honestly, I find the whole topic silly because I don’t relate to digitized characters. All my roll models have been real men and women, doesn’t matter what they look like on the outside. What matters more to me are their achievements and attitude, how they got there, how it applies to my life and goals, etc.
Hopefully, someone sees what this guy is doing and is inspired to do the same. I also hope this guy doesn’t turn into another Low-Tier-God (pro Street Fighter player) and get some weird complex about himself.
Current state of games? There is usually a ton of people involved in making a game. Hence they have credits. Not a fan of slapping your name on the game. A tad pretentious I fear.
Current state of games not being memorable enough for folk to care maybe? Or worse still...current state of folks.
@BloodNinja I've got nothing else to add to your comment, I agree with it, and yeah, I'm ready for the backlash. Bring it on, I'm still sticking with my convictions unless proven wrong
@Kalmaro “ Personally, that sounds like we are just throwing in people of certain races just to make people happy, verses what the developer wants to do and what fits their story. Not every game has to have black people. Not every game even has an Africa.”
I wholeheartedly agree with every bit of that comment. But I would say, how often is a characters race an integral part of the story they’re telling, and how often is it a case of developers lumping for a white person because they didn’t consider other options, or because they did and still felt a white person is the most marketable option for them?
@BloodNinja “I find the whole topic silly because I don’t relate to digitized characters.”
And I wholeheartedly agree with that too. However, other people admittedly feel differently. Aerial_Knight called out Ready2Rumble as a case where he was drawn to a game because he identified with the character on the box. Others may do the same, so there is a need for readily apparent diversity.
Aside from 1 or 2 token characters in most 1-on-1 fighters or racing games (e.g. Wave Race / 1080), a couple of the leads in GTA games, and the kid from Streets of Rage 2, I am struggling to think of any notable black lead characters.
Then again, I can’t think of many Asian ones outside of stuff like Samurai Warriors either. So maybe it’s about all kinds of diversity.
@JokerCK Yeah that's something I got against this type of article, it's like they're trying to sell us on the politics more than the game.
I get how these political subjects are a hot topic right now but I always saw video games as an escape from that type of thing more than anything. Then again this is just a personal project for someone and who am I to say how they should express themselves, and it seems like they put a lot into this.
I just simply don't like it when people try to sell me on something with what feels like political exploitation is all, and all this focus on identity politics seems to make some people very aggressive as well.
There is a demo...and I was not a fan of it, in truth I deleted it in short notice. The flashiness and the busy visuals get in the way for me to enjoy a runner like this.
I was not aware of the whole racial issue with the development of the game, but all the more power to him, I hope the game manages to be successful.
@Kalmaro I wouldn’t say people go out of their way to keep people out. They simply have a blind spot when it comes to other ethnicities. A lot of people wouldn’t mind having a diverse writing room or diverse characters in their stories. They just don’t think about it.
A lot of people are mixing up a lot of things from the article. There’s a lot of misconceptions that I read in the comments.
First, it appears that he got rejected from certain game development communities just because of his race.
Second, going in a public way give a good message to young black developers to never give up. That’s not a bad message!!
It’s not about a race issue is how I see it. It’s about.....inclusion. Would you guess how many places I applied as a game developer, and was rejected or given the corporate runaround?? Or had hired someone else instead of me?? It’s happened a lot.
So much so that I’m thinking of making my own team in the future if the opportunity and circumstance allows.
@Kalmaro Well, i don't think i said companies were actively keeping anyone out or even consciously keeping anyone out (though im sure there is some). But based on existing biases, their hiring practices and what stories and concept they end up approving can have that affect. Especially content and content creators they can personally identify with. If the majority of a group of decision makers is white and male, its not hard to come to the conclusion the majority of the content approved is going to be white and male centered. The majority of TV and movies is there to prove that point
The other point I was trying to convey is that there are probably a ton of black kids interested in coding and game development and a ton more who may find coding and game development is interesting and a realistic career goal if encouraged. Sure, I don't have numbers to back up interest in game development in the black community. But I don't necessarily see anyone providing numbers to suggest otherwise. I do know in my community (home and schooling), a diverse range of interest existed among the kids. So i can only guess that as gaming has become more part of the mainstream and culture, interest in how to make them is also there. To @Solomon_Rambling point, we also do need to take into account access and influence. Many schools districts in these communities don't have the funding or access to the technology and don't necessarily have the means or ability to go out and maybe hire someone dedicated to teaching these skills.
I also find this idea that those calling for diversity is merely just wanting POC thrown into content just for the sake of. Trying to simplify the argument in that manner is insulting and dismissive. Absolutely no one is saying or suggesting that. As i said before, the issue is beyond just having a black character as the lead character (or any non-white character for that matter). Its creating an environment where there's a consistency of diverse characters and stories going forward. This is a result of making an effort to diversify on every level.
I always get the feeling that when someone does something because they're in a certain minority group and want to be "represented" it harms the overall quality of the end product.
Because it doesn't seem that the end product, or the knowledge, or the skill matters in the end.
Which honestly is not a world I want to live in. If I buy a game, or watch a movie, or listen to the song, or whatever else. I go buy the quality of the product. The skill the people who made it have put in it. Not their gender or the colour of their skin.
But that's just my €0,02.
@samuraicop The game itself takes place in Detroit so it adds a bit of perspective.
@Kalmaro If having a white character was a bold move that some people believe might shrink the market your game appeals to, sure - be proud and make a statement out of it.
@BloodNinja yeah cause the Black man is obviously lying right. GTFO with that BS dude!
@kobashi100 Not at all, I just feel that there is more to the story than that.
@MarcusIsCool lot of people think we (black population) should be grateful we are not slaves anymore. If we dare ask for an opportunity to progress that's way too much for them to handle
@MarcusIsCool Good post. Is there somewhere talking about of his rejections being race based?
Either way, I see it as an underdog story that everyone can get behind. Anyone who has had a hard time breaking in from the outside can appreciate this.
@gaga64 It's cool, I'm not saying that because I view the world a certain way, that nobody else is welcome to do so.
@BloodNinja so you think he is lying. Why doubt him?
@UmbreonsPapa I think the best argument is that diversity is good in many regards, such as giving people the opportunity to create something or be a part of something, but I also feel like story written works of fiction needs to be centered around consistent or singular ideas. If you're telling a story it needs to be centered around characters and their journey, and experiences, which are typically unique to different types of characters. If you're trying to be inclusive to the sense where everything needs to include every type of person, you will result in nothing but sandbox/open world games.
Heck even in the case of non-fiction, if you're going after historical portrayals they need to be focused on a place and time period. You can't be including things that don't belong there without breaking the immersion and turning it into something else.
At the end of the day I think media shouldn't be constrained to political ideals. If it's an artistic project it should stay true to the artist's vision, if it's trying to tell a story it should stay true to the writers perspective, if it's portraying history or an activity it should stay true to that. Everyone should have their part in creating something if they have the ability and desire, but we shouldn't have to include everyone in everything. I think that would ruin artistic integrity, which would be a real shame.
Good luck to him, but I've got no interest in endless runners, maybe his next game might interest me.
@kobashi100 Nope. I do not think he is lying. I think there is more that he could reveal, if he wants to. But it won't make his story sound as extreme. Withholding information isn't lying, stating false information is. I'm saying he is withholding for the sake of marketing his story.
Have to give credit to the guy for being one of the first black developers to take advantage of this current woke culture to get his game some attention, doubt it will translate to any sales and the game will be forgotten within a few weeks of release mind you.
Enjoyed the demo and I can't wait to play the full game on Switch. Now just turn on that Pre-order selection and see more fruits for all the labor.
@Solomon_Rambling Not American nor black but I've heard and read several annecdotes and stories of black kids being shunned bullied etc. within the black community now this happens with most nerdy types but if a minority of a minorty gets peer pressured into being ashamed of their interests, you are left with a very small group that dares to step out of the stigma.
Personal I don't care if a purple tentacle (wait..) a GREEN tentacle made my game as long as it is good and I am interested in it then I might play it.
Putting so much focus on race will get you in the limelight now but if that is all you gotta sell that interest will die down fast.
Yozo Koshiro of streets of rage fame demanded his name on the title because he wanted it to be known he made the music because composers got very little credit back then, same with artists who did cover work for games, all dust in the wind.
@khululy I mean.... it’s not like white kids don’t get bullied for being nerdy. White people still make up more than 2% of all people in the games industry. No matter which way you cut it, 2% is far too low.
@brandonbwii People being looked over because of their race? Personally, it should never be about race, it should be about your skills. You shouldn't just be hiring someone because of their skin color.
@gaga64 "because they did and still felt a white person is the most marketable option for them?"
That would mean that we are the problem, not the devolpers, if we're not buying games because of certain racial representations. I haven't seen anything to back that up though.
@UmbreonsPapa "Well, i don't think i said companies were actively keeping anyone out or even consciously keeping anyone out (though im sure there is some). But based on existing biases, their hiring practices and what stories and concept they end up approving can have that affect. "
How does someone not consciously keep someone out, while also performing hiring practices that can keep someone out? I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying there's black people who may not go for a job because the game involves a white person?
If I'm way off the more please tell me, I'm having trouble understanding what you meant
@Spiders I don't see why a white person couldn't be proud of their heritage. If anything, it WOULD be a bold move since it's unpopular to be proud of being white these days.
He accomplished what I've been trying to do all my life. More power to him, I'm impressed and inspired.
@BloodNinja Lying involves deceiving someone intentionally, so it's possible to lie by omission.
I'm not saying he's doing that, right now, the most I can say is that he's making claims and not providing evidence, and that may be for a variety of reasons.
I think @UmbreonsPapa is trying to describe what is contained in this article. Unconscious biases can have an impact on our choices. If such biases exist in the hiring practice, then you could end up with a team with little diversity.
When a person belongs to a majority group/identity, they might not be aware of the lack of diversity. Similarly, if you and I think the same way, we may not consider other perspectives and just assume others think as we do. Alternatively, having a highly diverse staff could allow for new ideas which promote inclusion. As the article mentions above, some character creators don't include traditionally Black hairstyles because the development teams probably didn't think to add them. Are these development teams composed of racists actively attempting to exclude other cultures? We can assume they aren't. They may not have even considered these hairstyles as an option in the first place because they weren't aware of them.
However, if the teams had more Black members working on design, maybe these individuals would have mentioned adding these options. Is it possible that the development teams were diverse and still missed these customization options? Sure, but I think what @brandonbwii was getting at was that more diversity within the team allows for more diverse ideas which then extends to more creativity and inclusion.
Do people think the gaming industry is a meritocracy?
@nessisonett idk, if people aren't interested, they aren't interested.
Just saying 2% is far too low I raise you with a too low for what?
Does every group need to be equally represented in every field?
That is virtually impossible.
This is no excuse for any hiring discrimination or not giving people a fair chance because of any superficial reason imaginable.
What I am trying to say is that a whole thing is more complex and nuanced than buzz phrazes like "wypipo is racist" or "hire more black people and the problem is magically solved" as some people/outlets make it out to be.
@Purgatorium The industry? no. Gaming as a whole? It can be if you make something really good, like mine craft or counter strike etc.
If you create something that people latch on to like crazy you can make it big.
I like how the article only capitalized Black and not White.
Being dark skinned myself, I could care less about this game. Maybe people weren't interested in your pitch because it is yet another endless runner and has nothing to do with your race? Who knows, all in all I wish him the best, maybe he'll get to design more fun looking games in the future.
Also, since some people mentioned it: Hiring for diversity's sake is dumb. I would hire people based on their skill, not their skin color or whatever they identify as.
The game looks somewhat aesthetically pleasing but obviously plays like *****...end of story. Does anyone seriously buy endless runners anymore (it doesn’t matter what color)?
Someone should get hired based on their own skill, ability, and merits. Not because of their skin color. The best person for the job should get a job.
Oh and here is my NPC “woke” comment (or non-woke however you want to look at it) feeding the trolls at NL....
@Kalmaro I don't understand why we have to assume he's lying - why can't we just take him at his word? Replying to accusations of racial prejudice with demands for evidence is a dangerous road to go down; no company would ever outright state that the reason they did not give him an interview was due to his race or the colour of his skin, so he would never be able to acquire the evidence that you want.
@Arkay Honestly I find it kinda ridiculous how some people go on about things like diversity and the value of new ideas yet their concept of diversity is purely superficial. It seems like most of these notions are done in a vain pursuit of virtue signaling, saying things that sound nice yet there isn't any real depth behind them. If people are interested in new ideas and different perspectives they should be more concerned with the content of people's character and less concerned with the way they look.
@JayJ I agree with that. Most of it is just virtue signaling.
@JayJ you sir win the comment of the day award!
@khululy 2% is too low as it’s a noticeable discrepancy compared to the percentage of black people in the US of working age. Workforces will never be 100% split by exact percentaged demographics for a million reasons but it’s surely going to be hard to create a diverse group of creators if there’s a discrepancy of roughly 14% between the number of black people in the US and the percentage of them in the video game industry.
In terms of ‘telling if there are enough’, think of it like this. If you bought a tub of cookie dough ice cream and there was one single lump of cookie dough surrounded by a mass of vanilla then you’d understandably feel short-changed. It would also be odd if it was one solid lump of cookie dough with a scoop of ice cream in the middle. I’d like to think there’s a happy medium somewhere in the middle where you think ‘that looks right’ as people don’t measure out their ice cream to make sure the ratio is 100% right.
I also really really hope your use of ‘wypipo’ isn’t some sort of jive talk. It sure looks like it.
@roz061 Taking people at their word without evidence leads to people being unjustly hurt.
And I never said he was lying or assumed he was. I only claimed that he appeared to beakong claims without evidence.
I mean, would you be fine if someone said you made racially charged emails to them earlier and I wanted you banned?
Then, when you tried to say they had no proof, everyone else accused you of being racist for even demanding evidence?
@Solomon_Rambling Thanks, I'll have to lookore at the article.
I do know that, when adding black hair-styles, some devs have to be careful since that can be seen as insensitive and appropriation. Honestly, including stuff for black people or other minorities can be tricky since cancel culture is a thing now and it's easier to avoid it altogether.
Remember when chucklefish got canceled over having a black character that happened to be voiced by a white person? Somehow, that was offensive, despite us having white characters played by black people for years. I can actually understand a developer saying "just don't bother, keep them white, then no one will attack us."
I'd be fine with more black characters, and if more black people want to get into game development, that's nice too.
@nessisonett Are you saying that every job out there should strive to go for what is the racial percentage of the population in the US?
Does that mean we should stop hiring so many black people to be in the NBA and focus on the under-representation of white people in basketball?
@Kalmaro Thanks for the clarification!
@nessisonett Just search for it in the urban dictionary , take it with a grain of salt and maybe you might understand.
@Kalmaro If you’d actually read my comment then you’d see that I’ve very clearly said that it’s a pointless endeavour to strive for complete racial percentage quotas. The whole point is to create a happy medium. Where it’s a proper meritocracy and by law of averages, the percentages of black employees in video game companies would be noticeably closer to the demographics of the US as that’s how maths works.
@munstahunta You don’t have to wait for that the game has a playable demo you can check out right now. I thought it was pretty cool. GREAT soundtrack to boot.
@nessisonett Bold of you to assume I didn't understand what you said. I read it loud and clear. I even summarized your point in my reply, which suggests that you didn't really ready it.
Right now, over 70% of the NBA players are black. Now, like you said, reaching 100% parity with with our demographics would be almost impossible.
However, you are making a big deal about something being 12% off the national average of black people. Well, with the NBA we are over 60% off, but I bet you wouldn't say that's an issue.
So, assuming you don't think there's too many black people in NBA, why is that okay? Obviously, we've deviated from our demographics by a huge margin.
I think you'll find that there's more to who wants what job than math. Most of that comes down to people being interested in certain fields, imo.
I don't recall seeing many black people saying they want to golf or get into NASCAR.
The game definitely has style, and the art is really cool looking in the trailer, I hope it works out a good game.
@thinkhector thanks for thé tip I will try it .
@Kalmaro It’s a false equivalence to compare professional sports to creating video games. There are far too many differences in terms of how athletes and video game developers are selected for jobs and such. You can be a bog-standard coder working for say, Activision or Sega. If you’re in the NBA then you’re one of the best basketball players in the entire world. This is without getting into discussions about black neighbourhoods having basketball courts, role models like Michael Jordan and so on. And also outside reasons like basketballs being a whole lot cheaper to buy for your kid than a computer, which brings in other societal reasons.
The problem with that line of thinking is that athletic prowess is a million times easier to quantify than talent as a video game developer. So it’s a lot easier to establish a meritocracy. You can say somebody’s a ‘better’ basketball player. You honestly can’t get 5 people in a room and say ‘code something and we’ll hire the best person’ which is where small biases that slightly benefit one candidate take hold.
Here’s the kicker though, if it’s impossible to establish a true meritocracy that’s quantifiable by a variable the way that ‘athletic prowess’ is, then law of averages will still apply. If you took all racial bias out of the equation of course. It will never be perfect but if everybody is given the same opportunities to go for jobs in which your performance cannot be guaranteed before you’re hired then theoretically the demographics should at least somewhat line up with the entire country’s demographics as a default.
Love the art style/music but it looks like your standard endless runner, I hope I’m wrong.
Yep, she sure has been pumping out a lot of “quality” articles since she’s been here. But that’s more or less NLife in a nutshell.
Also, I’m curious, aborigine Australian, Canadian or other?
@JayJ NINJA APPROVED
Really not the right website (read: "audience") to put an article like this up.
I liked the read though, will try the demo out tomorrow.
@Kalmaro It’s really amazing to see such a strong black presence in the NBA, and I’m willing to wager it has nothing to do with their ethnicity, and more to do with their heart, passion, and above average training. It was a great example to bring to the discussion. In my mind, it represents a “so what?” because most of the participants are so good that their ethnicity is a non-issue.
You have a fair point with the issues between appropriation vs. representation. Ideally, we could discuss these issues and make mistakes without people attempting to slaughter anyone for perceived faults.
In regards to that Chucklefish debacle, I had commented on the article when it was published, so I won't bug you with repeating it here.
Anyway, to finish my rants with a comment on the game, this one didn't interest when I saw it on the Nindie Direct, but if it receives better reviews than Runner3, I'll check it out!
I will be buying this eventually. Enjoyed the demo. Love the artstyle. Happy to see leading AA protags. “Could be better” is an understatement about character creators. Baby steps.
@nessisonett "You honestly can’t get 5 people in a room and say ‘code something and we’ll hire the best person’ which is where small biases that slightly benefit one candidate take hold."
Actually you can, a lot of people got their start from doing just that, it's called a" Game Jam".
Some people just release their game for free, then when it gets traction they make connections and sell it, like with Cavestory and, I believe, Undertale was free originally.
In any case, the main thing you said that I agree with is that there's a lack of game developer role models who are black. Which could be why there's so few black developers. Another reason is just that black kids typically aren't into making games.
Something else to consider is that there's no rule sayi g how many black people should be in any one given job. You don't need to have any special physical characteristics to be in NASCAR, and being in NASCAR doesn't mean you're the best driver in the world... It's still massively represented by non-minorities. I'm unaware of any scandals showing that they reject black people from racing, the only other answer would be that black kids just aren't interested in driving in circles a bunch.
@Kalmaro Personally I don’t see why any white person would be proud of their heritage - I think whiteness really only exists as a contrast to American blackness (and now the woke POC movement). In that way, whiteness acts as a default so every game with a white protagonist is a celebration of that void of non-culture.
Most everyone besides American blacks can tie their heritage to historical cultures. If you were talking about national, cultural, or religious pride, I think we can agree it would be cool to see. Kingdom Come Deliverance can be seen as a Czech Pride game that suffered the slings and arrows of wokeness but I think the hobby is richer for its success. The Assassin’s Creed series I think could also be seen in this way.
Do you disagree? Is there some other kind of white pride that is not repped in the market?
He has a purchase from me. I will support. Anyone know the story behind the industry shunning him?
Headup and [email protected] gave this guy support and money, to make a "runner game", like the world needs more of those. Looks to me like he has had more support from the games industry than a lot of independent solo developers. Good for him, I wish him the best. I don't buy runner games though, and I don't buy games with a side portion of social politics.
@Spiders White people have nothing to be proud of? Is that what you're saying, that white people have done nothing to be proud of?
He's right about the lack of diversity in videogames.
I mean where's a game where you play as a fat, slightly purple, paranoid schizophrenic, gay man that sits on his ass all day titled "Jack_[REDACTED]"?
This marketing tactic is a joke.
Aerial_Knight acts like he's got something new to show the world and 'the man' is keeping him down. I think he has a basic and derivative endless runner. His story is 'dodgy' at best and his game looks miserably generic, just type 'runner' on the google store and you'll find hundreds of games that look exactly the same, with 'cool' soundtracks and 'futuristic' art styles.
He's a cry baby who's using this sob story to make his game stand out in social media because it could never stand on its own.
If he wants to talk about the games industry and injustices, then fair enough. This game and social media campaign, however, are not respectable ways to go about it
@Kalmaro Skills and skin color aren’t mutually exclusive. I doubt that’s what you meant but that seems to be what these discussions devolve to. The idea is just to remain concious that there are talented people out there of various ethnicities. Since people who look like me don’t make up the majority of the population, it makes sense to be aware of that during hiring process.
@brandonbwii I hear what you're saying, my point is that the only thing people hiring should be aware of is the skill of the person applying. Skin color shouldn't be a factor 99.9% of the time.
@Spiders I said what I meant, white people. It's generally understood what that means, I'm not sure why I should have to break that down.
No one breaks down black to "Those of African decent." It just sounds pretentious.
Meh. Looks like mobile game trash to me. Hard pass.
@Spiders Ending slavery faster than a lot of other places, that's a start. Not every white person was pro slavery, just like not every black person came here in chains.
@Spiders “Void non-culture,” that’s absolute nonsense. Culture is not automatically conferred to skin color. Values and morals, religious beliefs, food, music, and other aspects that make up ones culture, are not conferred by skin color. Culture is taught, culture is grown into, and goes far beyond anybody’s skin. I would add that in modern times, the internet enhances and broadens ones culture, and exposes us to things we normally wouldn’t see if we were cloistered in one place.
@Spiders careful there, your anti White ideology is showing, kinda racist bro. Now imagine if the roles were reversed.
Let people have pride in themselves. Forcing White guilt is both ridiculous and highly racist.
@Spiders I came here to read about games, not your nasty remarks about people's race, heritage and culture.
@Spiders Individuals should be proud of their own lives and their own achievements outside of their skin color. Being proud of a genetic accident (skin color) is outdated group-think/tribalism and makes us go backwards as a species, socially speaking. There’s no tally for any race’s achievements, globally. This pissing contest about culture is absurd.
@Kalmaro "It feels like I don't have enough data to take a real position on this yet." That's exactly how i felt, you put it perfectly. I was somewhat missing the grounds i could base this on to feel like the game was truly hindered by what it presents as the reasons.
I think I’ll pass just like the game industry did as well. There is a reason they did.
@Kalmaro “That would mean that we are the problem, not the devolpers, if we're not buying games because of certain racial representations. I haven't seen anything to back that up though.”
Yeah, I’ve not seen any evidence for it. Doesn’t mean some idiot in marketing hasn’t suggested it though.
It’s safe to say that some people will judge a game by its cover, and not buy it because it’s “too childish”, “only for girls” or “too violent”. And I can imagine someone in marketing saying “don’t put a black person on the cover, or racists will avoid it. Make the lead character white because they’re the majority in Territory X where we sell best”.
Conversely, the fact that I thought of it as a possibility doesn’t mean anyone in marketing ever did this, either. But it’s a possibility.
This is exhausting preamble for what appears to be yet another runner game. Cave Story turned heads because it was an incredible game on its own merits. The fact it was developed by a single Japanese salaryman only boosted its appeal after the fact. Had Cave Story been terrible/mediocre, I doubt the game's origins would've mattered much.
No disrespect intended to the programmer but this is a Canabalt clone. Canabalt did literally all of this first.
@Kalmaro ending slavery after 400 years of free labour. Then instead of paying the slaves, it was the slave owners who got paid riches.
That's no achievement to be proud of.
@Arkay nobody is saying non white peeps should be hired in race alone. What we want to see is non white peeps just get an interview.
I remember a study group a few years ago created multiple CV's identical in skills and grades. Each CV had a traditional white full name, black full name and Latino full name. They sent all of them off to different companies who were hiring. Guess which CV's were invited to interview? A simple study like that showed the blatant racism which exists.
@kobashi100 What? The US isn't even that old, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
@kobashi100 but this dude is making it seem as if he wasn't interviewed due to his skin color, while it's most likely because his game is just another endless runner. Playing the victim to get publicity.
Also I'd like to read up on that study, so I'd appreciate some source if you have it.
You might find this interesting. Personally, I don't think it's necessarily racism that's the issue in this case.
@Arkay no he is saying that in his career he has only been interviewed 7 times. Has nothing to do with this game. Not the same study but very similar
@Kalmaro er the Transatlantic slave trade was over a 400 period. My point was when you have had hundreds of years of free labour, freeing slaves after 400 years with no compensation is not any kind of achievement.
@kobashi100 No, ending slavery after 1000's of years of slavery being accepted.
Great Brittain spend more on stopping the slave trade then they ever made with it.
One of the reasons France occupied the north African coast was to stop the Barbary slave trade which stole Europeans from their homes to sell as slaves in Arab countries.
Slavery is almost as old as mankind and due to changes in thinking in Christianity, people in Europe decided it was forbidden to own other Christians, later other people this later translated into the trans atlantic slave trade to be abolished.
In the Netherlands we have a race grifter who is from the Ashanti tribe from Ghana, he keeps talking about reperations for black people because of slavery yet it is known that his tribe became wealthy from slave trading well before the white man came.
I am no scholar but thinking slavery, which goes on to this day in certain parts of the world, is Isolated to the trans atlantic slave trade and I know of no other 'race' than white people actively stopping it and policing it on a global scale.
@kobashi100 Appreciate the source, thanks.
As for the slavery part: You do know that non Whites also owned slaves right? Practically every race owned slaves, none of them paid them off. They got freed in the end, personally I think Freedom is much more valuable than any other form of monetary compensation.
Didn't Whites end slavery faster than any other race? That's something to be proud of.
@Arkay Nit too many people seem to think about who was selling the black people to go to those slave ships to the US (other black people).
Greater diversity and representation can only help broaden the appeal of this pastime we love, and maybe even help build the multicultural/interracial empathy and solidarity we as a species will need if we are going to avoid self-annihilation.
I’ll take my anthropologist hat off now and say I love indies for bringing us such a variety of games. I’m glad Aerial Knight got his break and feels proud enough of his work to sign it (Sid Meier or Will Wright or Todd McFarlane would probably agree). Wishing him success!
@Arkay I know every race owned slaves. Just making it clear that ending it after 400 years is not an achievement to be proud of. Wether it's whites, Blacks, Asians etc etc. Then to pay compensation to the slave owners rather than the slaves. Ultimate kick in the teeth.
This last bit is where the UK don't mention when they are whitewashing there history. freed slaves were compelled to provide 45 hours of unpaid labour each week for their former masters, for a further four years after their supposed liberation. Truly disgusting!
@khululy who did Britain pay compensation to when slavery was abolished. Not the slaves they made millions from. The British were happy to pay off the slave owners so is it any surprise decedent's of slaves feel they should receive something. Oh and the fact that descendents of slaves in Britain saw there taxes help pay off Britain's debt which it borrowed to pay slave owners is immoral on so many levels.
I like what JP Morgan did. This is a step in the right direction.
J.P. Morgan Chase filed a disclosure statement with the city of Chicago on January 20 acknowledging that between 1831 and 1865, two of J.P. Morgan Chase’s predecessor banks – Citizens Bank and Canal Bank in Louisiana – accepted approximately 13,000 slaves as collateral for loans and ended up owning approximately 1,250 of them as a result of defaults.
The company apologized on its Web site and to employees and said it will provide $5 million over five years for full tuition for African American undergraduates from Louisiana to attend college in their home state.”
It's interesting how discussions of racial representation in American media usually seem to go back to African Americans. considering hispanics actually make up a larger portion of the U.S. population.
Well, I have no interest in the game (runners are definitely not my thing), but I'm happy for anyone who creates something competent and is able to share that something with the world. And getting into a Nintendo presentation of any sort is GREAT for visibility, so I wish him and his game all the best.
This is a good discussion to have but typically goes nowhere on online forums. I would suggest ending it now.
If you really want to learn about race issues, there are professionals who have been researching and studying it for quite a while and have data to back up their assertions. They do zoom calls / other presentations periodically.
@BloodNinja I totally agree with everything you said - both replies! The sticking point is that there is a Black Culture - not because of pigment or genetics, but because of the slave trade which systematically severed ties to African cultures. Sure, now you can have your genes traced back to an ancestry, but like you said - identity doesn’t really have to do with your skin color but your culture. I think we’re arguing semantics but I think it’s an important distinction because there is no white equivalent to black culture - so when @Kalmaro says there should be white pride represented in the same way, it doesn’t make sense to me. I think we agree in spirit here.
@Arkay @Moistnado. That’s the funny thing - maybe I’m not making it clear. I’m not “anti-white” because of some shame or guilt. I’m anti “white” because it doesn’t describe a culture. If you want to have Western/Enlightenment pride or European pride or Polish pride or Anglophone pride or whatever I think that’s great. @Kalmaro calls ending slavery a white achievement - that’s just not true. It was a cultural effort that included - prominently - many black people. If you want to call it an achievement of the Enlightenment or Judeo-Christian values or whatever else I don’t have a problem with that. White as a cultural category just doesn’t make sense. Just like @Kalmaro is trying to point out a hypocrisy because black people sold black people into slavery... it’s more accurate to say African people sold those who would become Black people into slavery. It’s literally that severing from original language and culture that created this new thing. We’re conflating race and culture because the word ‘black’ describes them both, and trying to force a white equivalent for symmetry. There is a white race but there is no coherent white culture to be proud of, just like there’s no tall culture.
@Spiders It kinda sounds like you're getting into semantics. Black/african/whatever, people understood what I mean. In any case, yes, even then, black people were a minority when it came to ending slavery and had no political power, which means that white people were also a huge factor in pushing the rules through.
I also never said white people should celebrate themselves, just that they can't today without criticism.
I’m surprised to discover that there are white people who take pride in “ending slavery.”
In regards to the article, I do not doubt the game developer faced discrimination—as others have pointed out, most industries are not meritocratic, and unconscious/conscious biases create racist industries. Further, maybe anyone reading the article in disbelief might want to consider why they don’t believe the game developer.
@Kalmaro Definitely getting into semantics! I think it’s super important, especially today with new meanings being forced on words for political reasons.
I think it’s worth looking into the origins of the concept of “whiteness” - which is surprisingly new historically. I think it is, ironically, incredibly divisive for a term that superficially unites a broad spectrum of people.
Not to get bogged down but I think your underestimating the influence of black abolitionists like Frederick Douglass and David Walker. I think ending slavery was a civilization-scale effort.
@Spiders I fully disagree with your misguided sentiment. You’re coming off as incredibly racist, and I want nothing to do with anything you are saying.
@Spiders I'd say it's about as new as the US is new, imo anyway. We have our own culture here.
@WatsonWatson Why wouldn't they be? Slavery was still going strong in other places when they ended it and is STILL a thing today.
@BloodNinja What do you mean? We both agree that skin color is a kind of nonsense and not a mark of pride or shame. I’m just acknowledging that there is a black culture despite that, because of the slave trade severing those peoples ties to their ancestry.
Why is that not NINJA APPROVED?
@Kalmaro I should clarify and say, “within the context of US.” I understand this site is based in the U.K., but the subject of the article is from Detroit, so that’s how I contextualized a lot of the discussion—despite references to other nations/peoples—and as such, it’s a little disingenuous to describe any kind of collective whiteness as having an overarching goal/hand in eradicating slavery. There were a lot of different actors with different goals, not all of them altruistic, and the actual abolishment of slavery didn’t occur in one fell swoop—Jim Crow laws—and, in some sense, lingers to this day in a variety of racist practices within the country, such as a the recent voter suppression laws in Georgia. If an individual has a white relative they can point to who participated in the Civil Rights Movement or fought for abolition, then by all means, be proud—but also understand that their whiteness often provided them with privelaged protections denied to other classes of people.
@Spiders You’re not “just saying there is a black culture,” you are making a lot of anti-white posts in the same breath. No, it’s not a black culture. No, it’s not a white culture. It’s a human culture that happens to have a lot of whites or blacks.
These discussions go nowhere, because people seem to miss out on every other culture and race in existence and boil it down to black or white. There’s only one race; humanity. Everything else is outdated tribalism. Every race and culture are taking part in human actions, based around the human condition. To start to piece-meal it is again, misguided and tribal.
@BloodNinja I’m not “anti-“ white people, I just don’t believe it’s a coherent category. Everything else you said I agree with and think is beautiful.
@Spiders Ok, I’m saying there isn’t any reason to categorize anything, because human behavior isn’t relegated to skin color. The more we stop having discussions over such a surface-level topic, it is my belief that racism can fade away.
The dev in question didn’t get turned down over his looks. His game looks like yet another Canabalt rip off, in a game genre that’s fairly weak. Instead of making his game as stellar as possible, he has to use the race card. Brilliant. Next game, please.
@BloodNinja It’s possible he created a lackluster game and faced discrimination. They can both be true. Also, saying someone “played the race card” can be a pretty dismissive rhetorical device that doesn’t engage with the argument in question, or the voiced concerns of someone facing discrimination, and relies entirely on a reading of persons appearance.
@WatsonWatson Prove the discrimination, and we can talk. In the meantime, it's pretty clear that this guy made an endless runner and it got turned down. Instead of improving the game he decided say it was due to his race. If that is 100% true, I'm on board with his story, but how do we even find that out?
I kind of feel sad about this game as it looks amazing. However with the way the creator is promoting it makes me less interested to buy it.
I be honest in saying I don't care what race or gender the people behind an game are. Just sell it to me as an good game, and don't use current politics to help sell the game
@Spiders Just stop writing.
I didn't like it, the gameplay was boring, just the same thing over and over and over again. Just from the title, I can see the problem, it's made by like 1 guy, and that's great work for 1 person, but teams of people generally make things good and polished in ways that 1 person isn't going to have time for. So, besides the demo being very repetitive and unpolished, putting your name on the title isn't doing him any favors. I admire his can-do attitude but I don't remember the last good game I played that had a team of 1 besides someone like Terry Cavanaugh who has been making games for over a decade now.
@Kalmaro I understand your point but the scenario you've given (a racist email) can easily be proved or disproved; stating that the industry has a bias towards white game makers cannot be easily proven. I also take issue with your statement "Taking people at their word without evidence leads to people being unjustly hurt" - surely the opposite is also true, i.e. assuming someone is lying because they can't produce evidence also leads to people being unjustly hurt?
@roz061 Actually, just because someone has evidence doesn't change things when everyone is still on the "believe certain people no matter what" train.
And I wouldn't say someone is lying because they a lack evidence, I will say that I have no obligation to believe them.
@WatsonWatson privileged protections? Black people have that now as well. You can't even criticize black people in certain areas without being called racist, and heaven help you if you hurt one of us even in self-defense and it goes public.
@Kalmaro In the United States, both now and historically, (again, contextualized in the US because the game developer is from Detroit) not everyone is afforded the same privileges. This isn't a contestable point--its part of American history and still exists to this day and has been studied and examined, as other commenters have pointed out. While, sure, you can argue that the game developer's comments might be overblown or exaggerated--which I don't think is true--you can not argue away the characteristics and history of the society from which they emerged. I don't want to be dismissive, but I would urge you to consider some of the other viewpoints here and perhaps read some of the links a few of the other commenters provided, or perhaps strike out on your own.
@UmbreonsPapa I would have been interested (though, mind you, I'm only half-black, so I'm not sure how much my words count) when I was younger, but I wasn't good enough at math and my high school did not offer coding classes. My father didn't want me going to college because I wasn't great at math, but I eventually convinced him to let me at least attend the local community college...
...only for them to tell me I wasn't good enough at math qualify for any coding classes and I'd have to make up 6 math prerequisites (at the time, so many people wanted to take those classes that they set the prerequisites insanely high in order to keep people out) to be allowed to take any.
I ended up dropping out because my dream was dead (and I've never been able to self-teach).
@WatsonWatson The only thing I want to read right now is any evidence the developer provides to prove that he was descriminated in the work place.
I don't doubt that there are racist jerks out there who would pass up on someone based on their skin color. I'm not interested in them right now, I'm focused on this one guy right here and the people he seems to be suggesting descriminated against him. Where's the evidence?
@Kalmaro I am struggling to understand your point with this comment. Before, you said you didn't believe the developer due to a lack of evidence, and now you're saying that evidence isn't enough to change people's minds? Which is it?
@Kalmaro Also, and you can call my naive, I would like to believe that a game developer who says that they have found it difficult to get a foot in the door in the games industry because of their skin colour or race is not making this up just to drum up some publicity. I believe we must take these accusations at face value - would he really lie? Why can't we just be supportive and not demand receipts?
@Kalmaro The existence of systemic racism in industries and institutions across American is demonstrable, as others have pointed out. Discriminatory hiring practices exist, it's not a question of a few "racist jerks," it's a wide spread problem. If the game developer in the article wants to file suit, they should, but as for where you figure into the equation of proven/unproven: you don't. That may sound harsh, but no one has to prove anything to you or present you with any evidence. If you want some, go investigate. No one owes you a platter of reading material.
@WatsonWatson I'm sorry but that's not how it works. if someone makes a claim, it's up to them to provide their own evidence. The only claim I've made so far is that this person has not provided any evidence... Which they haven't, yet.
@roz061 My main point though was that there are times we're people will jump to conclusions before the evidence comes out, and that gets folks hurt.
My other point was that some people don't care even with evidence, which is kinda sad. That was just a throwaway comment. Most people, when they see the evidence, are honest enough to change their mind.
But yeah, I would LIKE to believe him to, but I can't because he's given me no reason to believe that his specific cases are a result of racism. I'm not going to start attacking people just because he said racism.
All that does is hurt people who really are dealing with racism. It's the "boy crying wolf" issue all over again. You keep saying stuff is racism without evidence (and it comes out to be a lie, assuming this person here is lying), and then when it happens, no one will take you seriously.
Though no one should be making accusations without evidence. It's possible to hurt someone with accusations alone. Especially when it involves a case where people are willing to just strike as soon as they hear something. Like when you get these cases of women at work making accusations that someone was making moves on them, but show no evidence.
I'd like to believe they are honest, but I can't know if they don't provide any proof.
@Kalmaro If the internet were an actual court (I’m thankful it’s not), then, yeah, someone needs to provide evidence.
But if you’d like, we can do it the other way, so here: contrary to what you said, you have made other claims, namely, that the game developer is a liar, so please provide evidence that proves his pants are on fire.
@WatsonWatson How about you first prove your claim that I called the developer a liar.
@Kalmaro they wouldn't announce that not because it's racist but because it's in no way unusual.
If they announced all the white protagonists the announcements would blend together too much.
@Kalmaro did you use the phrase “boy crying wolf” in reference to the developer?
@JDig You're aren't wrong, though my point still stands, if they did try to announce it they would ge canceled immediately.
@WatsonWatson No, that was just in general. If we keep getting people making claims without any evidence and it comes out that they are wrong, people will take racism less seriously. I probably could have phrased that better, thanks for pointing that out.
I'm not saying the developer lied because I don't know enough about them to say who's telling the truth. It could be they did lie and were racist. It could be that this guy who seems to be hinting at racism made it up. I don't know, no one has provided any evidence yet.
@Kalmaro also plz prove consciousness isn’t an illusion created by a small demon.
The end. Also congrats to Aerial_Knight, I will buy your game, and thanks to Kate Gray for her writing.
@WatsonWatson Why should I have to prove it? I never made a claim about consciousness and you're the one who brought it up. That was a cute way to kinda run from the discussion though.
I'll buy the game if it's good, I could care less what race they are though, I don't buy based of skin color, seems a lil racist to me.
@JDig to me @Kalmaro sounds like a down to earth and honest guy.
I applaud him for defending his stance, not with hatred but with calm headed arguments.
Bravo and never stop being yourself.
Sure does enjoy guessing then getting worked up about the guesses though.
@JDig I haven't really guessed about anything though... I just pointed out that we have no evidence from the game dev that the publishers turned him down because of his race. At least, not in this article.
That's not a guess, that's just a fact, unless you see something I don't.
Also, I'm not worked up. I mean, if you think I'm worked up now then I wonder what you think I'd look like if I was calm, haha.
You've certainly guessed about the outcome of the white protagonist announcement. Unless you can cite one?
@JDig Oh, you mean that someone announcing that they had a white character would probably get canceled?
Yeah that's just based on my own opinions. When I see what typically gets canceled on stuff like Twitter, I often notice that praising whiteness in any way tends to get ratio'd praising blackness is generally accepted. It's also acceptable to say that one hates white people but saying the same to black people or other minorities is usually not accepted.
I don't have any peer reviewed studies or anything, these are just the observations I've made.
Yeah, thought so.
You take care.
@JDig And you as well.
@KateGray Why are you deleting my comments?
@LaytonPuzzle27 Kate isn't deleting them, our moderation team is. Your comments are getting flagged and reported by other members of the site for breaking our community guidelines.
@Damo So my comment was deleted because I'm pro-police?
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