There have been some suggestions the rumoured Switch 'Pro' absolutely needs to have slightly improved specs to ensure it can run certain games and improve existing ones but is it all that necessary? Perhaps not, according to one industry veteran.
In a recent interview with Nintendo Everything, Engine Software's co-founder and vice president Ruud van de Moosdijk (who has worked on a handful of Switch games, including recent ports of No More Heroes 1 & 2) said as "nice" as it would be, a slightly improved model with some extra power could potentially go to waste.
As long as it's part of the Switch ecosystem, this means games still have to (or at least should) run on every system already available, and for compatibility reasons, performance is benchmarked on the lowest specifications. As a result, upgraded systems with additional power never really get fully "utilized".
"Truth be told, our opinion on this might be counter-intuitive for a lot of people, but we are not large subscribers of the “Pro” model. Sure, it would be nice to have more RAM or faster GPU/CPU compared to before, but if it is still considered the same platform you must make sure your game runs on every model. So, for compatibility reasons your performance gets benchmarked on the lowest specifications. We have seen with prior ‘upgraded systems’ that the additional power never really got utilized well for this reason."
On the Nintendo front, one prior "upgraded" system that was arguably under-utilised was the New 3DS. One of the few games that took advantage of it was Xenoblade Chronicles 3D, but beyond that, developers didn't show interest in fear of abandoning the rest of the market. Similar situations have played out on rival platforms as well.
At best, it seems a Switch Pro would feature a standard revision of slightly improved resolutions and frame rates (as rumoured), but "additional power" or added grunt is far less likely - especially when the current models (Switch and Switch Lite) have now sold a combined total of more than 68 million worldwide. That would be one sizable install base to exclude after all.
You can learn more about the rumoured Switch Pro in our comprehensive guide. If this device does in fact exist, what are your own expectations? Do you think it needs to offer much more than improved frame rate and resolutions? Tell us down below.
[source nintendoeverything.com]
Comments 212
How did the ps4 pro make the concept work but the switch wouldn’t be able to? And PCs that can take the same games and have better specs running on the better makes? I get the concern and fear but if it’s the equivalent of putting performance sliders in options menus I don’t think it will be a problem. Of course I’ve never made a game before so I do take the devs concern more serious than I would a casual gamer conversation.
the game on old model will run on 480p xd
problem solved xD
I think a pro dock would be better as a mid-cycle power boost. It would leverage the existing install base, most people want best performance on their high end TVs anyway, and it would be cheaper than buying a whole new system.
@AG_Awesome I don’t think the article means stuff like performance enhancements like higher frame rates, that’s a given that a pro model will give those improvements. The article really means that we won’t see any games developed from the jump that truly take advantage of any beefy hardware that the original switch just wouldn’t be able to handle at all, take xenoblade chronicles 3d for a small example. Makes sense, as this is exactly what happened with the Xbox oneX
A bit higher resolution and framerate is all I ask for, especially in handheld-mode. Games like XC DE, XC2 or TW3 in 720p in handheld-mode would be a dream
Faulty reasoning. Because of new 3ds case, which had games not backwards compatible
That’s like saying the Xbox Series X will never be fully utilized because their games must be compatible across the Xbox ecosystem. If it works for Microsoft why wouldn’t it work for Nintendo?
I would be truly shocked if an upgrade came before next gen. Never bought this rumor, it doesn't add up
Surely you just auro scale resolution or settings to a desired frame rate? Plenty of games do that...
What we really need is 4k upscaling in docked mode
As a part time software and middleware developer myself, a "Pro" model could still be utilized by:
1. Patching the software to fully utilize the hardware (some doesn't need to be patched if the software itself could dynamically adapt to hardware changes.
2. Developing the game in two branches (1 optimized for standard Switches and 1 optimized when the game detects it's the Pro). The cons for this is that it could technically increase filesize. The possible workaround is the game patches itself OTA for Pro enhancements if and only if you're using Pros.
TBH, to achieve and cater to both the OG and "Pro" hardware is a matter of how the developers tackle the "problem".
I mean One X and PS4 Pro did it. Technically I don't see a Switch "Pro" not being able to do it either.
It's good to keep expectations in check, but how he worded it is so pessimistic. Nobody really expects the "Pro" to reach Xbox One graphics to be perfectly honest. It only needs to be able to play current games consistenly in terms of performance. It could still do 4K but only upscaled so that it's good to view on a higher res display. I'd imagine it's still 720P handheld.
There were a handful of games that utilized the New 3DS. Yeah, there were exclusives, but games like Monster Hunter 4U did utilize the enhanced hardware that made the game play at 60FPS and Pokemon did get some performance improvements and those didn't even need to be patched.
These are my thoughts exactly. How many New 3DS games are there that are worth seeking out? Barely a handful - and FE Warriors was being sold for peanuts within a few months, because the demand was so low.
I think a Switch Pro is a terrible idea. Much better to have a real Switch 2 in another couple of years or so, with proper backwards compatibility.
I think he is referring to the 'New' 3DS where only a handful of games were 'exclusive' to the newer version. The majority of games ran the same on all models.
The switch does not need a Pro model it is at 75 million units sold.
The possible up and coming games BOTW2 etc etc will take it forward for a couple more years and into 100 million sold.
Then they should just release the Switch 2 and maybe with back compatible with all switch 1 games.
Remember this console is a different a hybrid if you like and in a unique position in that way.
So he’s saying (in so many words) that developers would stick to minimum effort and not support the higher-spec variant. Sure, they can do that, but I’d say the users and, more importantly, the publishers would appreciate the harder-working developers more.
I'm glad someone with common sense decided to speak.
You can create a different power profile to already existing games to run on a 'Pro' that will look better. But every game still has to run on the old system, to think they will start making exclusive 'Pro' games is a fools hope.
A New Switch will almost certainly happen. It almost certainly will not be called Switch Pro, and it won't have any exclusive games. But if they really are planning on keeping the Switch around for a few more years then they will want to make it with slightly improved newer parts.
But it won't be a Pro like the PS4 or X1X b/c not enough people will be willing to spend $400 on it. So it will be a $300 improved revision and the old model will once again go away like the last time they upgraded the battery.
Basically Shield 2017 w/ Tegra X1 to Shield 2019 w/ Tegra X1+. No reason for them to keep manufacturing such old X1 when the X1+ has been available for 2 years.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15040/nvidia-reveals-new-shield-tv-tegra-x1-dolby-vision-dolby-atmos
And most importantly, increase the onboard storage from 32 to 64. Not that 64GB will help all that much but 32GB is really embarrassing for a mobile gaming console when it comes standard in $150 phones. Who knows, maybe even 128GB, people could last a year w/ that.
On the flip side, the thing I like most about the PS5 is the speed. Faster load times alone would be worth the upgrade for me.
@Crockin they’ve set a precedent with DS and 3DS.
I don't think it's necessary. How people can play games like BOTW and Mario Odyssey for instance and say they don't look good enough is beyond me. Even Wii U ports like MK8 and Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze look beautiful. I don't need photo realistic games and constant advancing of graphics is just going to drive development costs up to a ridiculous level over time.
Console gaming is becoming too much like PC gaming in recent years with the obsession with specs and performance.
Higher res using combo of faster clocks and DLSS (as the only console using Nvidia), faster loading, cheaper to make for Nintendo so it prints more money, and a terrible name like “Super Nintendo Switch.” Cynic in me says Joycon drift still not addressed.
New 3DS is a good example of software not utilizing new hardware (minus built in features like eye tracking and other console features to each game).
I want to add NintendoLife you got my engagement but do you even believe this person’s opinion? Like ok some rando dev says something. Is that news? Do they have any inside knowledge? Do you have any pushback? Has any successful Nintendo system not had hardware revisions? Switch already got one two years ago, is another that unlikely?
@MaxiPareja Yes, but since then Nintendo has consolidated portable and home consoles. Where is there a place in the market for a 3rd switch model? The two they have are massively successful already and still in high demand. People are buying $500 next gen consoles. Why would they release a bigger badder more expensive switch with exclusive games, then try to drum up interest in a next gen console 1-2 after that? I could definitely see the next gen being a more powerful switch, but any upgrade before that just doesn't make sense to me
@YessMasster and iirc it t really didn't do super well nor did its exclusive games because of how siloed of they were from the larger pre-existing user base still clinging to the "older" console. That's the big reason we haven't seen a Switch Pro yet and why I believe one might still underwhelm the currently overhyped(imo) expectations for one. There just isn't enough profit to be made in shutting out an already sizable base of 68mil players.
There's a reason "New" 3DS exclusives were so few. And I don't see the Switch Pro risking any of it's future games' potential success by developing them fpor a still unproven hypothetical "Pro" version.
Similarly development wise, having to take into account making games compatible with an older consoles means that a lot of the effort that would go into making "advanced" graphics modes for a Pro console might as well be better spent into optimizing for the existing 68mil playerbase(and one that still growing, the lack of a Pro version didn't lessen the Switch's popularity even with new gen consoles arriving a few months ago) and try to make a game that still look good and run well even on that baseline.
@Peteykins The Switch userbase is a monster, I really doubt they'd exclude everyone by making exclusive games for the Switch Pro. That wouldn't be smart at all.
Totally agree with @Krull and @Clyde_Radcliffe. The Switch is doing extremely well as is, and a Switch Pro would just fragment the userbase. I'd much rather wait for a proper next-generation Switch 2 (or whatever Nintendo does next) than a mid-gen upgrade that's only slightly better than the console I already have.
I think that the more likely likely revision will be a small hardware upgrade to the screen, the infamous joycons, the battery and perhaps the cooling or general chipset efficiency. The latter might allow for 10-20% higher clockspeeds to be available (don't forget that the now elderly Tegra X1 is underclocked in the current model). It'd tempt some current users to upgrade (probably including me) and maintain momentum without fragmenting the user base for developers. Then in 2023... Whole new model with generational jump in performance, somewhere between PS4 and 5 in terms of power.
@Crockin,
Totally agree.
I think it was always going to be the case Nintendo at some point would offer a Switch revision, and it was also not a big surprise to see them release the lite as they have run with two consoles for ages now.
But the pro rumors have always been more core fan predictions than anything else, sure Nintendo will release a Switch revision, but not what some want or are expecting.
To everyone saying “but the PS4 Pro / Xbox managed it”, I think the point he makes is are developers making full use of the enhanced specs? Are the Pro models being pushed to their limits? Probably not, because it takes devs longer to produce something that scales up properly. So some of that extra power is wasted.
And yes, there were games exclusive to the New 3DS. 7 games in total - all of which are readily available elsewhere (most of them now on Switch). I doubt anyone bought a New 3DS for the exclusives, they bought by it for feature upgrades. And because Nintendo stopped manufacturing the older models.
That we all ready knew. Id be happy with just a boost in resolution
If it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it
"you must make sure your game runs on every model"
Hmm, the New 3DS and DSi would like to have some words with you. Hell there are a handful of games that can't be properly experienced on a Switch Lite. Nintendo clearly does not share this mentality that every model of a system needs to be able to play every game like what we saw with the PS4 Pro and Xbone X.
"At best, it seems a Switch Pro would feature a standard revision of slightly improved resolutions and frame rates (as rumoured), but "additional power" or added grunt is far less likely"
This makes no sense and reads like an oxymoron.
"Additional power" is what is needed to make Switch games run at higher resolutions and frame rates.
Times have changed and dynamic scaling is a thing now. Whilst yes, not every game is going to be able to really get the benefit of it, the ones that don't likely weren't intensive enough for it to matter anyway.
Meanwhile even early titles like Xenoblade should benefit hugely from a good extra chunk of power under the hood thanks to the push for dynamic resolution scaling from very early on.
@duffmmann
Yeah, Nintendo doesnt tend to strictly mandate software compatibility.
I personally doubt Nintendo themselves will ever develop any Switch games exclusively for the Switch Pro, but if some 3rd party publisher(s) wanted to publish some game(s) exclusively on the Switch Pro, then I'm sure Nintendo wouldn't object.
If they create a more powerful version (definitely not called "pro"), I honestly hope it will have exclusive games, like what the New 3DS was supposed to be. This way it could get more high quality ports and have gales that would never run on the vanilla Switch.
It worked with PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, so I don’t see that as being a problem.
Increased resolution and framerate but not additional power or grunt? Erm that doesn't make sense NLife. That WOULD be additional power.
You can already get improved FPS and resolution with modding your Switch to boost to max the GPU/CPU. Pro just needs a higher GPU/CPU SOC.
Even if a switch 2 were to come out I don't see why they couldn't have cross platform games running on switch one at 480p. There's plenty of people on these threads which seemingly don't care about resolutions so they would be content while the others would have their 1080p+ options.
I think Link's Awakening makes a good case for a "Pro" Switch.
At the time of release, I was extremely surprised to see the game chugging with lots of dropped frames in numerous areas... It was quite shocking to see a first party IP with such poor performance even though the game targets only a single platform and device.
I even thought it might herald the arrival of a more powerful Switch, because surely the dev team had been testing on more capable hardware all along, or else there's no way Nintendo would sanction the release of such a poorly performing title from its marquee series?
people are putting and expecting too much for this rumored Switch Pro, why would Nintendo release a 4K revision of Switch, when the base model and Switch Lite is still selling well with no sight of slowing down?oh but Nintendo need a Switch Pro for Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild 2/Bayonetta 3 to run better and have better sales then PS5 e Xbox Series X, non sense, with the base model and Switch Lite, Nintendo managed to make Switch the best selling hardware for 2020 and Animal Crossing New Horizons is the third best selling software in USA and best selling software in Japan in 2020, who need a Switch Pro with Nintendo Switch and it games selling like that.
I'll keep saying it as long as these stupid rumours continue. There'll never be a Switch Pro. Nintendo don't splinter their systems and the Pro concept we saw with PS and XB was really a one-time affair due to the sudden proliferation of 4K and HDR. New 3DS was not a Pro; it was an update and replaced the previous model, not sold alongside it for 50% more. It wasn't even a serious upgrade either, just a refinement. Those desperate for a serious Switch upgrade should look for a Switch 2 or New Switch probably 2022 some time.
@Slowdive I doubt it would be proprietary to Nintendo when Nvidia already has the technology. It would be pretty cool to have a Switch with some more current Nvidia GPU power, even if it's a fraction of what is available in the PC market. DLSS is a really cool way to get the appearance of higher resolutions with smooth performance at a much lower GPU cost.
Pretty much what's been said before, but by an industry insider this time (and I mean an actual named and quoted Insider, not an unjustly eponymous mythical creature from the lore of "leaks" and "scoops"). New 3DS remains a stark exception in this trend, and its exclusives can be counted on one or two hands (SNES VC doesn't count - for a largely tech-illiterate humanitarian, I'm audaciously confident these marketing boosters COULD run on the older models otherwise, seeing as even the previous handheld generation could decently emulate the platform). Switch scenario offers no hints of ever going that way and letting a "Pro" model host games to leave OG and Lite behind.
Without which, what's left to want a Pro for - a 4K Hyrule for the glorious hour of the proportionally taxed battery life? Nintendo clearly doesn't think there's too much extra dough to make from that perk. And don't readily assume a magical Switch Pro would instantly brush up all the resolution and framerate issues in [insert game title] - it's still a matter of optimization effort. Well, unless you really picture that Switch Pro boosted all the way into costing like a Tesla.
Spending the weekend with my sister and her husband so it'll mostly be TV and movies. They showed me Reno 911 last night which I thought was hilarious.
Anyway on video games, we might play some Animal Crossing or Smash Bros together.
Ultimately it will all come down to whether Nintendo wants to keep ports coming to the system or not. The gap now between next gen and Switch is huge so potentially ports will start to dry up. Having said that Nintendo makes negligible money from 3rd party ports so it isn’t going to be a huge priority.
@Clyde_Radcliffe @mlj11
Yoshis Crafted World 675p docked
Bayonetta 1/2 720p
Age of Calamity 810p
XC2 720p
Pikmin 3 720p
Mario Odyssey 900p
BOTW 900p
Mario & Rabbids 900p
Paper Mario Origami King 900p
Mario Aces 900p
Mario & Rabbids 30fps
Kirby Star Allie 30fps
Luigis Mansion 3 30fps
BOTW sub 30fps
Links Awakening sub 60fps
Age of Calamity sub 30fps
The fact that the WII U ports or deluxe editions are the games which are running best is more than concerning for a system half way through its life span.
Mario 3d World 1080p 60fps
NSMBUD 1080p 60fps
DKTF 1080p 60fps
MK8D 1080p 60fps
SSBD 1080p 60fps
"I don't need photo realistic games and constant advancing of graphics is just going to drive development costs up to a ridiculous level over time." who said anything about games needing to be photo realistic. I just want my cartoon games to be optimized thank you. 1080p 60fps for cartoon like games.
Clearly there will be some type of Switch upgrade at some point. Whether it's a revision of the current model or a Switch 2, it'll happen.
I don't think a pro is coming, but I do think it is entirely possible that botw2 will require either some kind of update/peripheral or could be a dual launch with the next console in a few years. AAA zelda games generally fall into the "i must have this at all costs" category, and i would be kind of surprised if nintendo didn't capitalize on that, beyond just a special edition of the game.
@Dezzy70 correct. Don't need a pro model at the moment, just wait until next gen, with the new console able to play switch games in backward compatibilty.
I've been saying this over and over. Further proof YouTubers, like Spawn Wave, are hacks, becase they always talk about Switch Pro, but then never come to the logical deduction that games still have to run natively on all Switch SKUs. Else games that are only exclusive to the pro will sell poorly, because you're only targeting a small market.
@SuperWeird
This isn’t true at all. First party games on Xbox Series are going to support the One, S and X for a limited time. Third party games can support whichever consoles they choose, IE only the newer consoles.
Does that make business sense given the current install base? Probably not. That’s probably why nearly any non-exclusive is coming to every console out there for the time being.
All I need is enough of a power increase for QOL enhancements:
Knowing nintendo they'll probably just release the same switch but with a bigger screen that is still 720p, same 32gb memory but maybe they'll include a 32gb sd card so they can say they "doubled" it, a revised dock that can upscale to 4k and maybe revised joycons and pro controllers (hopefully they'll add analog triggers and headphone jacks to them)
l actually don't care about not having a pro to come. l just want better joy cons with no drifting. Anyways l'm sure another new console from ds family will be next.
“ We have seen with prior ‘upgraded systems’ that the additional power never really got utilized well for this reason."
Every PS4 Pro and Xbox One X owner staring in confusion at this statement
All of the variations of PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series clearly prove otherwise
@yuwarite
They can easily put out games on both SKUs. They could put out a 360p 30FPS version for the OG Switch Handheld profile. It just needs to run. That’s what happens with Phones, PCs, other Consoles etc
I don't really care about what he says about this. You can now circumvent this problem by making the high end game cloud based for the weaker system or regular switch while giving the pro the native version. I had this idea before that leak happened. Or just make the game run like crap on the regular switch but still playable but giving the pro the best version possible. They could market it by saying for best possible performance fir Nintendo players, play the game on the pro. They won't do this to a lot of games. Just a few. This is just my way of seeing it and proving this industry veteran wrong. I don't like cloud based gaming at all which is why I would definitely get the switch pro if that was the case.
I'm playing Pikmin 3 mixed in with some Splatoon 2 and Mario 35.
What's this obsession with 4k? I don't have and don't know anyone with a 4k TV. Nintendo are always slow to adopt technology few own. Switch Pro will be very similar to what we have now but with revised joycons. The success of Switch will make Nintendo wary of excluding 68m owners if new games won't play on their original model.
Well, yes, I'd love to have improved frame rates. I'd love even if it only improved docked frame rates, like some kind of DLSS that could allow 720p 120fps for hopefully a wide range of new and older games. It would be like having Xbox series S when docked.
I think the current Switch model is just fine. It's the perfect trade off between power and portability, and it has shown itself to be an exceptionally capable piece of hardware in the right hands. Releasing a more powerful "Switch Pro" will simply fragment Nintendo's customer base.
@HalBailman
I’m not sure what your definition of a ‘Pro’ upgrade is but New 3DS was at least as much of a ‘Pro’ upgrade as the PS4/XB1 versions-it got its own software for a start. Nintendo also splintered the N64 Userbase with the Expansion Pak. And the Wii Userbase with Wii Motion Plus. And the DS Userbase with the DSi.
I don’t think history is all that relevant here but Nintendo have previous.
@andyg1412
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have a 4K telly. I have 2.
@Kriven They mean that if there is a more powerful system in the same family of consoles, that if they make a game that is too powerful for the older systems they will alienate the older generation. Therefor, it would steer devs away from utilizing the newfound horsepower, like what happened with the 3DS.
@electrolite77 How did we get splintered by the N64 expansion pack, that was utilized on what, 5 games? And there was no online gaming for a “splintering” to even matter! LOL
Does nintendo think a switch pro will make them more money? There's your answer.
like i said make it a new dock
@Dezzy70 This is exactly how I feel. I didn't purchase the Switch for bleeding edge graphics, but rather excellent Nintendo (and partner) titles, a unique way to play in both on the go and using the joy cons and also a greater focus on local multiplayer.
I'm happy to wait another year or two depending on how they handle the final transition.
Isn't this common sense on making multiple variants of hardware make sure it runs on the lowest spec device first? That is probably one thing that will hold many Xbox games back for the next few years as all exclusives are still going to be targeting the base Xbox one. It's not so bad if it's only meant as a mid life cycle enhancement but the problem comes when you still target your previous generation of hardware as the minimum target.
@YessMasster actually new 3ds is a case in point as there are barely any improved graphics and not even a handful of new 3ds only games, devs went for making sure they play well on all. In my opinion this should be and the point of home consoles everyone has the same experience.
@Strictlystyles @Kriven finally someone who gets it..
Couldn't care less about resolution. Framerate on the other hand... so many at 30fps could benefit from that bump to 60
@jrb363 can you be happy if others bought the switch and were content with the power but now want a bit more power in 2021?
Can you be happy with a pro model coming out and your games still running on your switch just at a lower resolution than the pro model? Or will somehow you feel like you are missing out?
@duffmmann New 3DS and DSi are great examples... of handhelds that did barely anything with their extra power. I'd count them as arguments against a Switch Pro.
Nintendo has sold 70+ million regular Switches and it's selling insanely well, why fracture the market now? Just hold on for 2 years and bring a successor.
Have no interest so I don't honestly care. Maybe Joy-Cons that don't fail?
I know Nintendo likes their refreshes but it would be super annoying if a Switch Pro comes to light and there are titles that are only comparable with it. I was mega bummed they never got SNES games on vanilla 3DS, and there was no way I was buying a New 3DS just for that.
Yeah, seems like a weird statement given Nintendo's history, even with the 3DS.
There were N3DS exclusives (Xenoblade/Fire Emblem Warriors), and there were games that were obviously made for the N3DS's power and had severe issues on the O3DS (Pikmin/Hyrule Warriors).
Seeing 'DSi-exclusives' and 'N3DS-exclusives' both flop, 'SwitchPro-exclusives' are unwise but wouldn't be impossible.
Here's a problematic word.
but we are not large subscribers of the “Pro” model
Whom are "we" that he is talking about? Sounds more like a echo chamber to sounds one's bias instead. He seems to not know innovations comes and Tech evolves to produce something new and better. If what he saying is true then people should still using PS1 and X360 consoles and not upgrade and stay with games at 1.0 and no updates. This is the type of misinformed so called veteran that doesn't work for Nintendo innovations that produced the Switch. That now is out selling XboxX/PSX consoles. So that should already tell everyone reading this story is so one sided it lands with a Splat without any news. When they brought out the v2 people were talking this same junk and it didn't split their gamers. So this is all NintenDoomed fandom hoping Switch fails. So if XboxX/PSX can evolve why is it so hard to see Switch go 4K because they are Scared and Fear change that is why. Tech hardware evolves why else do you think we now have SmartPhone the size to fit your pockets. If everyone thought this you be carrying a hunk of metal for your Cell Phone now. But no one says that about Cell phone RIGHT. So STOP your useless pandering that only XboxX/PSX can get 4K but when Switch goes 4K - then it's all Let's take up Arms to STOP Switch going 4K. This goes to show you how Scared and Fearful people are of Change and it will come I rather have March 26, 2021 akin March 17, 2017. RING A BELL anyone.
If anything, a "Switch Pro" will be a brand new console that shares the same dock and handheld mode capabilities and is backward compatible.
I just hope Nintendo continues with the concept of a Switch. If a new system is strictly a console or strictly a handheld, it'll be a major step backward. Yes, many people primarily, or entirely, play one way or another. I myself primarily play it docked but I love the option of using it as a handheld.
@technotreegrass I just hope Nintendo continues with the concept of a Switch
This is a winning formula for them and it's not changing anytime soon how the Switch looks and evolves to higher GPU/CPU that would be what's coming. It's that there are alot of NintenDoomed Trolls portraying as Nintendo Fans.
I’d appreciate any additional performance going first to resolution and frame rates rather than upped graphics/textures. Some games are just too blurry for me to play at the moment
Meh, for the price they would be asking for an updated Switch I would rather get a real next gen console, I imagine it would be around the same price as PS5/XsX. .
The point in having a Switch Pro version is so that it can run 3rd, and even 1st party, games at a more stable frame-rate. Being able to run 3rd party games well will result in more developers porting their games over to the Switch, making Nintendo more billions of dollars.
I would buy a Pro docking station.
Like playing first on lowest settings and then add some ram, and better graphics card for a boost from lowest settings to medium. And the switch 2 on ultra 🤣
@Investor9872 The problem here is that they can't fully take advantage of the larger amount of power because they still have to target their games for owners of older Switch models.
Look at the 3DS family. Games that were exclusive to the new 3DS and 2DS were no capable of running on older 3DS models and the OG 2DS because they took full advantage of the more powerful hardware.
Those games had trouble finding an audience since they cut out a large number of 3DS and 2DS owners who could not play them.
Most games in the 3DS family never took advantage of that beefier hardware, opting instead to target the larger audience of all 3DS family system owners.
So, would a Switch Pro really change anything? Look at the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Outside of some resolution improvements which few games ever took advantage of, all games on those platforms were developed with all PS4 and Xbox One models in mind.
I just don't see the point in a stopgap system that will just be outdated when the real Switch 2 comes out.
The Switch is 4 years old. It's successor will likely come in a couple of years anyway.
What point is there for a Switch Plus?
@Caryslan that's crazy talk.... my xbox one x was light years better than my xbox one s.... Xbox supported so many old games with patches to take advantage and the new games all looked significantly better on the one x.
When it comes to a "Switch Pro" the bigger issue is getting developers to patch older games to utilize the upgrades. New games can be programed with that in mind but people would want the benefit for games they already own so they don't feel they wasted their money with a New 3DS style upgrade.
With the New 3DS the modding community made it so games would actually use the upgraded processor and for some games it showed. The last Pokemon games would have pretty significant slowdown during double/sky battles. This was fixed with just the games having a little more power on the New 3DS after you turned up the base clock with your homebrew. Which is what I did and I can honestly say it's hard to go back after how smooth it made the games.
For us here I think we're in agreement that if we could have 720/60fps minimum with no drops and less/no pop in we'd be more than happy right? That would warrant an upgrade. And folders/themes.
@BetterThanVegas all I need is Nintendo to patch its older games. Thats a lot to ask from Nintendo who aren't used to doing favours.
@BloodNinja
It split the Userbase. All of a sudden a portion of the Userbase couldn’t access some games (like the n3DS DSi) and got an inferior version of others (like the n3DS).
Nintendo have previous for releasing superior upgrades. They have previous for risking alienating a portion of their Userbase. They have previous for old versions of a system running inferior games. The same as happens in the PC world, the Mobile world, and happened with PS4 and Xbox in the past 5 years.
@Caryslan The problem here is that they can't fully take advantage of the larger amount of power because they still have to target their games for owners of older Switch models.
This is the mindset that doesn't work for Nintendo or work in R&D developments that made the Nintendo Switch.
@sixrings all I need is Nintendo to patch its older games.
Knowledge here Nintendo for most part other then their IP games that they patch don't do make all the patches that comes from each Software developer to patch their own games.
Counter example Xbox 1X fully utilises its resources to run games much better than previous Xbox models. Even more true for Series X as well of course. But Microsoft made huge efforts to make this possible.
WTF? Did developers forget that the DSi and the New 3DS had games that weren't playable on the older models?
@electrolite77 All of a sudden a portion of the Userbase couldn’t access some games (like the n3DS DSi) and got an inferior version of others (like the n3DS).
So your saying a Switch v3 game won't work on a v1, v2 Switch. I think the developers are smart enough to know to bake that into the Product since they use the same Carts. It's not like trying to put a 3DS cart into a 2DS console. This is why they went and unified the cart into one thus the Switch was born. But people keeping hanging on to something that is no longer there and one has to wonder have they advance their minds that Switch is has only one Cart Design to start with and that they can make bigger aka 64gb carts as I read in the past here so games could still be made to fit so that it can run on v1, v2 and the other way around. This is why they created Switch with only one Type of Cart.
@electrolite77 No they can't. Some games simply can't be ported to Switch, because there are massive CPU/TDP bottlenecks, that the Switch's natively downclocked Tegra X1 at 15w objectively can't handle, no matter how much a company like Panic Button tries. Games like Witcher 3 and Doom Eternal could technically be optimised to even run on an Xbox 360, but the 9th gen consoles actually have really good CPU's this time (as opposed to Jaguar laptop CPU's last gen), so it's just not feasible to get that code to run on Switch's CPU at 30 frames.
I don't get it Switch has one Cart design and people are up in Arms about it when a new Switch is coming out. This seems like alot of Trolls are coming out when a New Version is coming out tells alot they don't really support or like Nintendo innovation. I'll say this again AFAIK and probably true - they went to one type of Cart of Switch for this reason so they Unify their games. But people seems to cling onto old outdated mindset and that is the saddest part of this console Cycle to something new.
@electrolite77 So the expansion pak on the N64, which only applied to 5 games, split the userbase. Seems a bit extreme!
I don't think the claims are valid. Again, there needs to be a connectivity to begin with to cause a player split...how many online multiplayer games were there on DSi? Were there any? lol
Just seems a bit on the over-dramatic side to say that it fractured the userbase lmfao.
Dark Souls PTDE to Remaster, THAT split a userbase. DS2 to Scholar of the First Sin was another thing that definitively split a userbase.
But those things started off with connectivity. It's like when they made Everquest 2. Well, can't play with my EQ1 friends anymore, another split.
I don't think any of the things you listed have any communal connectivity, outside of downloading a thing from a shop. I don't believe those older systems split any player-base.
A Switch Pro, depending on how they did it, COULD POTENTIALLY cause a split, but again, this is mostly talking about online multiplayer. People would still theoretically be able to play the same software.
I dunno, though. There are so many variations of PC strength, yet the developers (usually) go the extra mile to ensure you can tone down the requirements if your system isn't top-end. Maybe Nintendo would start to do the same, and require devs to make software options for things such as graphics, in the even of a pro?
NINJA APPROVED
@SwitchForce I don't get it either. The people who say there is no need for a switch pro keep saying the games look and run good enough. I guess that's subjective because then they say that hyrule warriors was barely playable on the original 3ds. So good enough is subjective but they get to decide when it's good enough. Sorry but releasing games like Pikmin 3 or bayontta or yoshi crafted world all under 720p docked I believe I get to say that's not good enough. If it takes a switch model to fix those issues, do it.
@serouj2000 For the 3DS, I seem to remember that there was only a single game to take advantage of the hardware upgrade, wasn't it the Xenoblade Chronicles one? And some of the emulated games they offered, such as the SNES. I don't think there was actually much in terms of dev support for the stronger hardware.
NINJA APPROVED
This is BS. They would utilize the added power if only for greater FPS and better resolution.
@Kriven my thoughts exactly. I wouldn’t mind a switch that had a 1080p display that would run 1080p60 docked or not. Shouldn’t be hard at this point. Focus on battery life and call it a day. And honestly it could be a little thicker to support the extra guts and I’d wouldn’t mind at all.
@BloodNinja points at Minecraft New Nintendo 3DS Edition
I've been saying the same thing as this industry professional, all along. If it's still the same platform, releasing a more powerful system won't allow more demanding games which couldn't come to the Switch otherwise to finally make it across. If they won't run on the base system, then they won't get released at all.
The Switch is not comparable to PS4 or XB1 last gen, because those were cutting edge platforms when they came out so releasing pro versions there, AAA games could still run on the base machine. The Switch struggles to run last gen games as it is, let alone next or "new" gen games.
Let them focus on their whole new platform instead, let the Switch live out its good two years left of life amidst the current transition period to new gen, then in two years from now, unveil its successor, coming at the same price point as the OG Switch at launch, with performance closer enough to the new gen to allow miracle ports like we've had on OG Switch, release it just as PS5 and Series S/X get their expected first price reduction.
@serouj2000 Ah, I knew there was another one, thanks! Still not a good argument for the 3DS upgrade, but there you go!
NINJA APPROVED
I'd consider Nintendo right stupid to launch a Switch Pro with beefier hardware, instead of an actual successor.
Subsequently, I don't think they're doing it.
@RudyC3 If they won't run on the base system, then they won't get released at all.
The Switch is not comparable to PS4 or XB1 last gen
Going by these two metrics then you should still be using PS4/XBoX old and not upgrading or software updating as well. But we know what the response will be already.
@RudyC3 AAA games could still run on the base machine.
You want to re-read some reports on this again. Their are stories where some games won't run on the older hardware and some Digital games won't transfer over. So again people are grabbing for Straws when Switch v3 is coming out.
@Pod I don't think they're doing it.
One biggest reason some never work for Nintendo and their Innovations R&D production. I love how people tout the new Xbox/PsX but the sheer mention of a more powerful Switch and they seem to think they think for Nintendo. Why would they sit on their arse waiting for you when people don't use the same metric on the XboX/PSX lastest Generations. Called TROLLS trolling.
I’m fine with the switch they way it is. First party Nintendo games are like playing Pixar/Disney movies, if I want super realistic realism I’ll go outside.
@Ulysses
Those are actually pretty realistic QoL improvements, and I can totally see those happening at some point in the future. 🤔
Games made for PC have been made, for literally decades now, to operate on a range of devices. I do not understand why it can't be the same on Switch and other devices. Yes there are minimum requirements, but most games have the ability to push higher settings on stronger devices.
@Heavyarms55 Yes there are minimum requirements, but most games have the ability to push higher settings on stronger devices.
This is why not long ago Nintendo sent out a notice to Developers to make their game 4K compatible but people largely forgot this news.
Rumour: Nintendo Is Reportedly Asking Switch Developers To Make Their Games 4K-Ready
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/09/rumour_nintendo_is_reportedly_asking_switch_developers_to_make_their_games_4k-ready
So this called veteran clearly forgot something in reporting. I wonder if that person also read this from Nintendo to make such comments is clearly a mis-step or trying to mislead people.
As much as "4K Switch Pro" keeps getting tossed around, nobody seems to give it any critical thought. Sure, maybe cranking up the resolution might be the easiest way to enhance existing games, but going forward, what incentive do devs have to hit 4K? What's keeping them from improving every other aspect of the graphics?
A newer ARM core and NVIDIA GPU on a smaller process node would still eat much less power and run cooler on "standard performance" if not even while running full-bore. Even if games didn't fully utilize the more modern hardware, they would run longer on the same battery and possibly allow the elimination of a cooling fan (which also draws power to spin up as well).
@NoxAeturnus too bad it's physically impossible to release a pro dock. The reality is that the switch's usb-c port is too slow to take advantage of external power. If it had a usb-c port as fast as the newer flagship smartphones, maybe there would be a way around that but since the switch does not support quick charge it's physically impossible to use external hardware.
The only way around the current limitation is to release a switch twice as powerful, as sad as it may seem and since next gen will be truely started within two years, if nintendo wants to keep their partners they're gonna have to follow suite eventually
@Ulysses
eShop is a website, there is no reason they couldn't upgrade it equal for original Switch. Not that I see any reason too, its nothing wrong with the eShop, I actually like its clean and fast, opposite to the slow things Microsoft and Sony got.
@BloodNinja
My point is aimed at those who think there’s no precedent for Nintendo launching a ‘Pro’ iteration. Whether it be one that just soups up existing software or one that has a few games of its own, there literally is precedent. Right there in Nintendo’s recent history.
@yuwarite
I agree. But there’s no reason Nintendo can’t launch an enhanced Switch that plays Switch games at better quality and/or has a few exclusive games. They’re the only one to launch iterations that have exclusive software. Sony and MS haven’t. But there’s plenty of history of Nintendo launching upgraded systems and/or risking fragmenting their Userbase.
@SwitchForce
It’s really easy. PC and Mobile developers do it all the time. Apple set limits on how far back software has to run, they never say how well it has to run on older hardware. Nintendo can do the same. They’re in the box seat now, a ‘Pro’ Switch will not harm them if handled right, in fact exactly the opposite.
Wait so this one person has voiced their opinion about an imagined version of the switch that doesn't exist right now? Well that's some pretty damning evidence. I guess there's no need for any more thought and we should all consider an upgraded switch to be the next new 3ds.
@electrolite77 I've said myself that I think Switch is their equivalent of iOS or MacOS, where you can have multiple iterations but they all run the same stuff. It's a platform rather than a specific piece of kit. People cried about the Switch Lite, but that's Nintendo's equivalent of a MacBook Air. It's a platform they can expand upon. They can release better versions, they will run old software but eventually the OG models will get left behind down the line.
@Caryslan
I don't disagree with anything you said, except for the Switch 2 coming out in 2 years. It won't. The PS4 Pro runs all PS4 games better. Everyone, including myself, will attest to that. I don't play games on my base PS4 anymore. That isn't saying that they don't work on the base PS4, but rather they don't work well, run at a stable frame-rate, or offer a resolution or frame-rate option as those on the PS4 Pro. If Sony can make the PS4 Pro work, and they have since they are difficult to find being sold out everywhere, Nintendo can too. Nintendo has already stated that the Switch family will run for 10 years. They can do that by releasing a Pro version, which will allow for 3rd party developers to have choices, so that they can offer their base games for the OG Switches, and a resolution or extra frame-rate options for those whom will be buying the Switch Pro. It's a win-win for all, IMHO.
At the end of the day, Nintendo will be releasing a Switch Pro. Where there's fire, there's smoke, and there is just too much smoke right now for the Switch Pro for it not to turn out to be a reality.
A pro model could have Docked performance in handheld mode, with 2K or 4K upscaling in Docked mode (with downloads necessary). Doesn't have to be much more. What would make this really GREAT is if the new Pro joy cons worked and weren't pieces of crap that drift all the time haha. But yeah, more comfortable, ergonomic joycons with a D-pad would be AMAZING!!
@electrolite77 The problem is that could lead to another Xenoblade Chronicles for New 3DS situation, where the game sold poorly, because the New 3DS user base was small. I don't think other 3rd party developers would want to take that risk.
@sixrings said "I just want my cartoon games to be optimized thank you. 1080p 60fps for cartoon like games."
Yep exactly. The Switch is so underpowered, that a Pro version is needed just so today's Switch games run properly. Way too many games are being released with poor framerates and I will not pay for them. 60fps is more important for action games than graphic detail.
Developers don't even have to make two versions of the same game, just make one game: It'll run at 30fps for noobs on the OG Switch who can't tell the difference, and 60fps on the Switch Pro for the rest of us.
Even if developers wanted to make Switch Pro enhancements, it doesn't need to be complicated... just add an extra layer of eye candy - eg slightly better rendered light/shadows etc.
The DSi had an improved RAM and CPU compared to the DS. And the best use it ever got from its life from these improvements come from its Home Menu and maybe a couple ambitious DSi games.
@Caryslan I remember you saying whats the point in a Switch Lite also lol.
The X and Pro offered significant improvements across the board with no compatibility issues. Xbox One X provided 4x the resolution with framerate enhancements, in many cases higher resolution textures, 16xAF, faster loading, incredible back compat everything - heck even Rare Replay recieved a 4K update and the N64 games look and play spectacularly with better controls than Nintendo's VC attempts... A stunning console refresh.
A Switch Pro would offer similar QoL improvements, not the same resolution boost, but framerate, loading, resolution enhancements will always be welcome.
Also New3DS was a test for Nintendo and more than a refresh, it was a significant jump too late in the 3DS cycle, it was what the 3DS should have been. Had Nintendo released New3DS 1-2 years earlier sales would have rocketed.
@yuwarite No it won't.
The New3DS was released 2 years too late, 3rd parties already lost interest and Nintendo needed an exclusive to tout its upgrade and Nintendo didn't have the development environment right for it.
A Switch Pro would offer enhancements like the Xbox One X, maybe not as big a jump in power as that system but a good boost none the less.
@RasandeRose
There is nothing fast about the eShop.
Yes compared to the nightmare that is the PS4’s online store it’s decent. But it’s very, very sluggish.
@liveswired Enhancements aren't what we're talking about, though; we are talking about actual exclusives for the Pro model, for games which couldn't run on the original Switch/Lite models.
The latter scenario is very unlikely, because it would be ignoring an existing ~70 million person userbase in favour of a much smaller base that chooses to buy a Pro model. It's also not a 100% guarantee that everyone who buys the Pro model is instantly going to buy those exclusive games as well.
There's simply not enough time for a Switch Pro to build up a sizeable userbase, by the time it does (2 years+), the Switch 2 will be on the horizon.
Go back to this "industry veteran" and tell him that scalability exists since IT was born, and while Nintendo demonstrated in time that does not know what it is, competitors truly showed what it means. At least those based in the USA. This article is ridiculous
It's really odd here when a xbox/psx makes new hardware its given glowing reviews but when Switch comes around to improve or upgrade it's hardware. Now it's sacrilegious that it should improve and show how portable gaming is. This is how the reads are coming out so far. If everyone was going by this metric there should not no XboxX/PS5 coming out and they should stay with XBox/PS4 only. It tells alot about those making these remarks should stay with those older console from the start.
Surreal reading people saying they don’t want one, Nintendo should not or will not make one, and that it would be futile. I upgraded my N64’s RAM because you had to, to play Majora’s Mask. I mean, come on now.
@RasandeRose The eShop definitely experiences slowdowns at certain moments, and could always be a bit crisper. Furthermore, the UI is extremely simplistic and utilitarian, partly due to the OG Switch's lower power. There is so much room to role out a more creative approach to the eShop exclusive to the Switch Pro.
And before you say the eShop works perfectly fine, many people agree with me that the eShop needs a lot of work on improving discoverability, which is where Nintendo needs to get creative and try fresh ideas.
@sixrings To be honest, anything I feel like I'd 'miss out' on graphically I'd pick up on PC or my One X. The only exception being Nintendo titles, if they were restricted in some way by the new systems. Hopefully that wouldn't happen so...in short, no.
I get the desire for more power, I guess I'm just currently 100% happy with what the Switch is and don't think Nintendo getting into an arms race they would lose or adding confusion to a VERY strong brand in the Switch would do them well.
Think Sega and their issues with the Genesis/CD/32X. I know, a different time with different failings but for the average person the Switch, as it currently is just 'works' and I'd hate to see that get lost until a true successor is ready.
@jrb363 if the original botw didn’t run well. What makes you think that botw 2 will without a pro. I don’t care about if doom runs better or any other third party games. But I do want Nintendo games to run as close to 1080p 60fps as possible.
Only "upgrade" I need for my Switch is better joycons. 4k gaming is still niche, the switch as is still isnt even a 1080 gaming machine and 1080 in handheld will be even worse on battery life. I swear at the rate consoles are going, I'd have to upgrade my pc far less than any console.
There will always be pros and cons to a Nintendo Switch "Pro" or a "New" Nintendo Switch, but are we all forgetting about how we still decide to spend money on the games regardless of how they currently run? Does a game NEED to be at 1080p 60fps as a deciding factor on whether you play it or not?
Remember, back in the days of the Wii, we didn't hold these same complaints. Yeah, there were nitpicks about water-downed ports, but the complaints weren't the same. No one was asking for HD at the time and I don't think it's any different from asking for 1080p 60fps, no matter how "outdated" it is.
Admit it. Nintendo games still look gorgeous, even if it's not hitting maximum resolution that the Switch can handle, and even if it's not hitting 60fps that only some Switch games do. Hell, I would even favour 30fps over 60fps in some games, because realism doesn't work in every scenario.
Of course a Switch Pro would never be fully utilized, unless someone developed exclusive games for it, that did not consider the base model.
PS4 Pro and One X were also held back by their base model versions. They were also never "FULLY" utilized. Same will happen to the Series X.
That does not mean that a Switch Pro wouldn't make sense. Of course the games would benefit from the better hardware and run better because of it.
But this has nothing to do with fully utilizing a Switch Pro and use it's full hardware potential.
@AG_Awesome tell me, did the PS4 Pro sold better than the other PS4 models?
This developer used common sense, which is something a lot of people here is missing.
More baseless rumours about a switch pro that probably doesn't even exist 😴
@electrolite77 I explained it if you read the full comment or even think about it properly. A Pro is a beefed up version selling beside a base model for a premium price. So you have two versions selling. An update only has minor improvements and replaces an old model, is sold at the same RRP, with the old model usually discounted to clear stock. A PS4 Slim would fit into that category. We need to stop using this "Pro" nonsense because that's why so many rumours are false. The last Switch "Pro" rumour turned out to be the red box update. If there's any truth to the current rumour it would relate to the next generation model.
@yuwarite A Pro model wouldn't be about exclusives, it is about enhancements just as a PS4 PRO and X offered.
The amount of Switch games with unlocked framerates and those struggling to hit 30 or 60 with DRS would benefit drastically alone without even having to touch the code.
I don't understand why Nintendolife gamers complain so much. Just like Switch Lite everyone on here decried splitting the fanbase and blasphemy, spitting fire like a demonic hoard with zero intellect. There will be no split. A console family that offers variety for everyone cannot split the fanbase. Period.
A Switch Pro is about expanding the market and enticing gamers on the fence who wouldn't make the jump due to its weak hardware to finally do so. And at the same time likely alot of Switch gamers would actually take the jump as many Switches are starting to fail. This is all about expanding the market, a company with 70 million sales will still want to find ways to keep pushing and monetising the brand, something here Nintendolife posters do not understand.
I think they will release something for 4K. If anything because it will be cheaper to make new models with a current Tegra Processor than continue to make them with a eventually discontinued chip. You also have to balance making games multi-platform that still have to target the switch. They are going to have to up its power to keep up if Nintendo wants 3rd party support.
@Crockin Apple, with their iPhone SE, iPhone mini, iPhone 12, and iPhone 12 Pro would like a word with you
@Edu23XWiiU I don’t know. Who cares. Lol.
I wonder how these NintenDoomed people would live today if they have to use a PC MS-DOS with 8088-10 Turbo would like it if this was all they have and everyone else a Ryzen. And they should be happy with no upgrade and keep using older tech and happily state on here they will keep using this Tech without complaints. I can guarantee they will ty to Weasel themselves out one way or another. Technology moves on and it's Nintendo Interests to use a new CPU/GPU to get a leg up on the other Consoles. In the END it's Nintendo bottom line to increase sales and market share. Why would they do something so stupid as to not put new Tech into the Switch to keep up with the times. This is why alot of TROLLers are here now because they are Scared of something new. I say this you don't want then don't buy it's that easy and the rest of us will insure the new v3....and so on will keep coming and going. That's the picture those NintenDoomed don't want the rest of us to have. Another good example is you should stay with Dial-Up internet and Touch-Tone phone and no Cell Phone and be satisfied with that for your lifespan and tout the benefits of it and never upgrade but then again they try again to Weasel themselves out again.
As to when or not a new Switch owner gets aboard that is the choice they make. There's plenty of Games now to choose from some pixel games to Witcher 3/Crysis performaning games there is no excuse to not have one. One doesn't have to be a collector to play Switch games they exists for all age group and Switch was never about having Graphics to beat Xbox/PSx it was about Innovations of Gaming and a updated GPU/CPU was part of the benefit to Gaming FUN this is what NintenDoomed fandom forgot along the way. As anything Tech moves on and so does Nintendo this is why they Survived and were the one to restart the Gaming industry when it all but crashed in the 80's so remember this when you go buy a Switch if it wasn't for the "NES" everyone would still be playing Atari Games or worse going to Arcade stores only.
@Meehanuk
Just buy it physical and when you do decide to get a Switch you will have it available to play
@MaxiPareja huh? video game market is around $20-30 billion, while the smartphone market is something like $700-800 billion. Demand for video game consoles is not even in the same universe as the demand for iphones
@HalBailman
‘Pro’ is just a marketing term. And there’s nothing at all stopping Nintendo from releasing an updated Switch, ‘New’ Switch, Switch ‘Pro’ or whatever you want to call it. There’s plenty of precedent.
@yuwarite
I don’t think we’d see much by way of exclusives unless Nintendo decided to put out one or two, or fund a big third-party game. I think it would be more about better performance. You never know though.
@Crockin you ask 'where's the room for a third switch model' - there's plenty of 'room' and hundreds of other companies set a precedent, including Microsoft with the Xbox One, Series S and X, and PC as their current lineup.
@WiltonRoots
Exactly. They’ll follow the Apple model. It makes perfect sense rather than having to rip everything up and start again every 6/7 years.
@MaxiPareja just like there was plenty of room for the dreamcast
Since when is ANY system power fully utilized? 3ds for example had tons of games over maaany years. The system is famously underpowered but how many games really pushed the hardware fully? If you ask a 3ds fan what the most technically impressive game is on 3ds, most would say "resident evil: revelations". This was a relatively early game in the 3ds lifespan but even after the "new" 3ds model released this game still remained the most technically impressive game. If you don't know what I'm on about just look up what that games gameplay looks like and compare to...well anything else on 3ds from any year. It's still impressive looking in 2021 imo. It still boggles my mind how Capcom got resident evil 5 engine to run on a 3ds at all. The only other game that almost impressed me as much is 3ds version of "Xenoblade chronicles". It's not nearly as visually sharp but it's massive scale survived the conversion to 3ds mostly intact and SCALE def matters as 3ds has very few games with such large map size. I do wonder 10 years from now looking back, how many switch games pushed console to the limit of performance
@liveswired @electrolite77 "A Pro model wouldn't be about exclusives, it is about enhancements just as a PS4 PRO and X offered."
Right, and that's where we all agree. Enhancements are all this will be for.
But I'm talking about the notion that a Switch Pro also means exclusives, because certain games, like Red Dead Redemption 2, for example, can't run natively on the Switch. Big 3rd parties are not going to take the risk of hiring a team to port to Switch Pro, a console with a small userbase; that scenario is not going to happen. For 3rd parties, games will have to run natively on both systems, or not at all. Or, they will do a streaming version, but if they do a streaming version, they're not going to make a native version for the Pro, either, because there's still a porting cost associated with that.
@Crockin Dreamcast was a whole new system. What people are suggesting here is more similar to apple how games work across multiple devices. But unless you are only reading select comments you have read that by now. You simply don’t want a pro model because either you don’t want to buy a new system or you don’t want others to have something better than you.
This was same problem withe PS4 pro, and Xbox one x. I honestly think if a Switch pro is made it will just be able to handle 720p better in hand held, and 1080p in docked better with more stable frame rates. It wont be 4k 60.
@illmatic20xx that’s exactly what people are looking for. That’s an excellent goal. 1080p 60fps
@sixrings not wanting to buy a new more expensive system is exactly the point tho. The lite works because it costs less and they don't have to change anything to support it. I can assure you the company that sold Mario 3d all stars for $60 is not going to throw away shiny new hardware for an in between model this late in the cycle.
I think Nintendo will wait intill March 2022 to release, what I think will be called the Super Nintendo switch. And i believe they can make it into a monster. No games from Nintendo that won't run on switch till 2023 or 2024. Any games that have been listed for Switch will launch on switch and this. I believe if they wait till next year it is possible to get it up to at least ps4 pro standards handheld and near ps5 docked. In the future there will be some games that only run on docked. The dock will have a cpu as well as it must have to get it close to ps5 standards. And of course all indies and old games will work on portable. Sounds like a dream right?, But i believe its possible.
@Crockin no one is forcing you to buy it. You’re happy with the current switch. Keep it. People here said Nintendo would never release a switch less switch yet here we are. Besides Nintendo has always updated their handhelds. I’m not saying 100% they are releasing a switch pro but surely even you can admit you cannot guarantee 100% there will not be a switch pro. If it releases you can decide then if you think it’s worth buying. Maybe you’ll change your mind.
@Clyde_Radcliffe
For real though. While I certainly can appreciate that all it's not a deal breaker fir me. If it was then I'd already be an avid PC player. I am beginning to see why some of the PC community mock console gamers & label them peasants. As console gamers seemingly want to keep up with & do what their PC brethren do, but don't want to do the work or pay the money requirws to be such an enthusiast. Lol
@sixrings I can't guarantee it, Nintendo can be hard to read. There's still a massive growing install base for the switch, and they are going to milk that for all it's worth before a substantial update imo.
Hey, if they release a newer switch with substantially updated hardware and communicated in some way that the life cycle would be another 4-5 years, yea sign me up.
@RudyC3
While I agree with some of what you said, the ps4 and Xbox One most certainly weren't cutting Eedge when they came out.
@Ulysses
Well to be fair, many people could also disagree with you as well. And perhaps that person has many people that agree with them. I certainly hear what you're saying, but the whole "well I have people that agree with me so you're pretty much wrong" mentality is whack
PS4 Pro/PS5/OneX/SeriesX see improvements in frame rates, graphics and resolution because the games are mostly PC ports running on a higher quality mode than the PS4 and OneS.
I’m not saying the developers don’t have to do work, but they do do less work than really digging into the systems and getting the very best out of each one.
With a more powerful switch, their would be automatic improvements just because of the RAM or CPU. That doesn’t mean the developer will get every bit they can out of it.
@NoxAeturnus
I agree.
Thats my Opinion too.
I think most sensible people would expect a switch pro to mostly just give a simple resolution or performance increase. The problem is you have a lot of games media and independent content creators out their putting this stupid idea into gamers heads that the switch pro should be as powerful as a base ps4 and should therefore get exclusive games the regular model doesn't.
As much as I love Easy Allies I'm going to throw them (mostly Huber) under the bus for a second to illustrate this point. These kinds of gamers like to have radical pie-in-the-sky fantasy trips where they imagine best case scenarios without stopping to think about the business end of these decisions. Would I like a super ps4 powered switch? Sure, but what does that mean for developers? What does that mean for the consumer base? The switch is on fire right now, Nintendo is not going to throw a spanner into the machine by splitting their audience and putting a new burden on the shoulders of their development partners.
Honestly what drivel. Just look at the current games with dynamic res and uneven framerates. A Pro model with a modest CPU bump would iron out 90% of the big Switch games. I understand the "get it to run on the base model" sentiment, but the very idea behind a Pro model would "enhance" the baseline performance to "luxury" level instead of "just playable" which is where alot of games currently reside. It would give a premium option to the customer and would likely go down well with alot of gamers. Then you still have Switch Lite and normal Switch for the more casual who are "fine" with the current performance.
@Crockin I don't know.
They keep saying the Switch is only half way through it's life cycle. I don't see them ruining a good 60+ million fanbase to bring out next gen just cause everyone else has. Especially since the base is still growing.
@gameboy1975 That's fair. And for the record, I wasn't explicitly saying he was wrong, just that a lot of people do in fact wish the eShop would be improved upon.
Honestly, all I want is a boost in performance. A locked 720p 60fps for all games on handheld mode and 1080p 60fps while docked. 4K is not necessary at all. Oh, and AT LEAST 64gb internal storage, 128gb would be ideal.
Because, let's be honest, guys: do you really believe they would do 1080p handheld when games can't even run at a locked 720p at the moment? C'mon, we need to adjust our expectations.
1080p handheld MAYBE on next gen around 2025, lol.
@Ulysses
To be fair, I'm sometimes one of them. LOL I just don't know if it's my internet to blame or just being plucky as some have said. As most of the time it's just straight smooth, there are times where I'm like come the heck on.
@Sudati I think you basically described what most pro supporters are expecting minus the dock upscaling which isn’t that tough to do.
@electrolite77 No. "Pro" is a specific concept, and it is discussed exactly as per PS4 and XBO era. I never said there was nothing stopping Nintendo releasing a new console and of course there's a precedent. They've only done it every 6 or so years for the past 30 years and I specifically said an update would come along. False accusations means you concede the point. Let's start talking "successor" or "update" rather than this "Pro" garbage. It won't happen. Nintendo's never done it before and never will. I'd argue PS and XB won't ever do it again either. It was a one-off due to the sudden proliferation of 4K and HDR early in their cycle.
@HalBailman never is a big word. Someone might remember this thread in six months. Dig it up and call you out on it. It’s good for one to leave them self an out. I’m other words I don’t believe Nintendo will release a pro model this generation. That’s a couple outs.
@sixrings It's personal opinion based on history. No problem if I'm wrong. In fact, I'd freely mention it myself if the thing materialises.
too bad it's physically impossible to release a pro dock. The reality is that the switch's usb-c port is too slow to take advantage of external power.
@Casual_Gamer95 This was my understanding as well.
If it had a usb-c port as fast as the newer flagship smartphones, maybe there would be a way around that
I have read that Nintendo's USB-C implementation was very non-standard (poor), which was the root cause of the damage inflicted by some third-party docks. I have always thought this was one of Nintendo's most critical oversights/mistakes, if only because it will prevent a dock-based upgrade. Do you have any sources that describe the Switch's USB-C implementation?
@Kriven exactly! a third power stage for a "pro" model is absolutely doable. it could range from 1080p resolution, dlss like features, higher fps rate on existing resolutions, ect.
A pro model might not even be about more power, but less, in fact. Same performance but less power draw and higher thermal headroom is a upgrade worth doing. The current X1 isn't even fully utilized due to thermal and power limits. Having more headroom in those 2 areas would allow for a even smaller switch, a revison of the existing models. I'd be happy with a more high end model, having all the og switch features in a vita size (and bluetooth).
But hey, if 4K isn't mentioned it isn't realistic huh?
are we all forgetting about how we still decide to spend money on the games regardless of how they currently run? Does a game NEED to be at 1080p 60fps as a deciding factor on whether you play it or not?
@NathanTheAsian I agreed somewhat with your post, but I am finding as time passes that the answer to your question is Yes, in a few important cases. The resolution in Age of Calamity was simply too low for me - I want to be able to enjoy the scenery of a battlefield (counter-intuitive as that may be), and I find that the game simply cannot manage. In addition, racing games must achieve that resolution and frame-rate, or very nearly so; else they look poor beside prior-generation games.
@COVIDberry Age of Calamity, alongside both main Xenoblade games, are indeed in desperate need of improvements, but it certainly didn't stop me from enjoying their stories.
I can understand the importance of frame rate in not only racing games, but fighting games as well. Timing is everything, but that's where the argument comes in that developers are at fault here. They had every choice to make the games run at 60fps, and even though it means sacrificing visuals more than they already have.
@NathanTheAsian so you’re suggesting that the developers were wrong and should have prioritized 180p 60fps. That would have been a great decision.
@sixrings I wrote about people adjusting expectations because there's a lot of people thinking they'll release a 1080p handheld and 4K docked. Like, c'mon, that's not gonna happen lol
@sixrings
Now that's an exaggeration. Look at Rocket League. That game doesn't seem to have too much of a reduction in graphics yet it handles 60fps, with the performance mode.
I don't mind a more powerful Switch as long as it doesn't mean Switch games released after it suffer performance issues on the original. Original owners shouldn't have to deal with input lag and terrible frame rate. And don't tell me that never happens! Just look at Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS and the Assassin's Creed games on Xbox One.
@HalBailman
You’re arguing about semantics for reasons I can’t understand. Only one Console upgrade has ever even been called ‘Pro.’ There’s no definition of what a ‘Pro’ upgrade is.
@SwitchForce
How am I a troll for thinking Nintendo won't release a Switch Pro? It's a completely reasonable assumption.
And I don't see how this has anything to do with Xbox and PlayStation. Nintendo has never release a stronger version of one of their home consoles in the middle of its life, and they have kept insisting that Switch indeed is their current flagship console.
That Microsoft and Sony do things differently isn't all that relevant.
@Mince
But do you honestly think developers would WANT to cut themself out the market of the existing 80 million Switches?
Because I imagine they'd much prefer Nintendo to launch an entirely new separate system, with all the fanfare that comes with that, if they were to make games for a system with an install base of 0.
@citizenerased They're great examples of Nintendo not giving a ***** about uniformity across the board. Good luck playing any DSiware on a regular DS. Nice try playing Xenoblade Chronicles on a standard 3DS. It doesn't matter if the selection of games exclusive to these models were many or few. The point remains, Nintendo doesn't believe in this unsaid rule that all games released for Switch need to be playable on all models of Switch. Hell, as it is, good luck getting much use of LABO VR on a Switch Lite. You act like the sales numbers matter here and they wouldn't want to splinter the large Switch audience, well again the DSi man. DS remains Nintendo's most successful system to this date, just narrowly edged out from the number one spot of gaming system sales if all time in the PS2, and Nintendo has no issue splintering that audience, releasing a ton of DSiware that a standard DS simply can never play.
@Mince @Mince @Mince
I am not talking about next gen consoles at all.
I'm talking about it never having proven a viable option for any third party devs EVER to bring a game to a beefed up hardware version, that couldn't also run on the stardard version.
So when Moosdijk says their games would have to run on every model, he's right. Nonone, outside Nintendo themselves, and only for creating showpiece titles to boost system sales, would want to release games on a Switch Pro, that didn't also run on Switch. That is, if it was inded called "Switch Pro", and marketed as part of the Switch family.
Because.
When I'm talking about a "new" system, I'm just talking about the Switch's eventual successor. If that's what others are talking about as well, when they talk about a Switch Pro, then by all means, we're not in that big a disagreement about any of this.
@electrolite77 Rubbish. I'm talking facts. You're arguing semantics. Yes, there's only been one instance of a "Pro", and it's a very specific definition, so why is it being used so liberally and wrongly if the intention is something else? This article even talks about ecosystem and links to an article clearly talking about a Pro concept. There won't be a third option in the Switch ecosystem. That's fact. That's all I am talking about too. Another fact!
Anyone remember the N64 expansion pack.
@T0biasCZe 720p you mean ?
@Mince
You do want to note that while the New 3DS was an UPGRADE released years after the launch of the 3DS, the Switch Lite was a DOWNGRADE released years after the launch of the Switch. It's not a fair comparison if people were already going to be aware that some games won't work on the Switch Lite, whereas that entire idea wasn't exactly brought up with the New 3DS.
Do keep in mind that porting a game onto the theoretical Switch Pro would still likely not be a viable option for one very simple reason: STORAGE. The Game Cards barely fit enough, and not only are they expensive to manufacture, but they're also the primary medium on the Switch for large games, save for Doom Eternal. Storage plays a huge factor in why we haven't gotten as many ports as we wanted to, and it still would be on the Switch Pro.
That's unless you want the Switch Pro to have better storage, but by then, the prices will be jacked up like crazy for both manufacturing and retail.
@Mince @Mince
You keep misreading what I write, and then talking about something comepetely different afterwards, so if anyone here is a troll, it's you.
Nobody released games for PS4 pro that DID NOT ALSO run on the regular PS4. If I am mistaken in this, please feel free to correct me.
And again, Nintendo HAS NEVER released a "beefed up" version of a mainline home console, which is what they insist that the Switch is. Their position could change, but I doubt it will.
I am well aware that they released stronger versions with both the DSi and New3DS, but it did not prove viable to third parties to release games for these that DID NOT ALSO work on the regular DS and 3DS. Correct me if I am wrong.
The Game Boy Color did manage to get a handful of "only for Game Boy Color" releases from third parties, but just how successful they were, I couldn't say.
Outside of these clarifications, I struggle to see if we actually disagree about anything. I do understand the concept of a codename. What I am arguing is that I don't believe it covers a system that really is just a more powerful Switch, playing the same cartridges. I think that would be a silly product.
@Mince
It has only been slightly less than 4 years since the release of the Switch. Sure, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that the manufacturing costs haven't moved, but at the same time I'm still skeptical because like the rest of the Switch, we're basically working with experimental hardware at this point; nothing that has been generalized aside from maybe stuff you'd find in a small-sized gaming laptop.
With the PS5, there aren't as many issues as the Switch. One, the PS5 made the sacrifice of storage by choosing to use SSD; quality over quantity. Two, the PS5 has a better expandable storage options than the Switch, allowing for external USB HDDs and external USB SSDs rather than microSDs.
There's a huge difference when it comes to talking about a console revision and the next console. We're currently talking about the revision, not whether or not Nintendo would improve through their next console.
Finally, comes the point about the Switch Lite limitations. You have to remember that these are not performance limitations. They're simply limitations revolving around control schemes that have (terrible) workarounds most of the time; something we've seen for years now. All of the Switch games could theoretically work on the Switch Lite based on internal hardware, with the only game actually lacking accessories being Nintendo Labo VR. With the New 3DS games, there were no workarounds on the original 3DS.
@Mince
I consider the Switch to be experimental hardware, because it's running off of storage expansion that hasn't even been perfected yet (microSDs haven't even gotten up to 2TB yet, and the Switch still allows for that much expandable storage), the control sticks on the Joy Cons are different from what we've seen in any other console hence the reason for the drift defect, and it's running on a medium that is exclusive to that console.
It's quite obvious a revision would receive better specs and all, with impoved loading times and potentially better in-game textures. The only issue revolves around determining what kind of revision it would be.
Yes, it's possible they'll go down the New 3DS route as much as it's possible to go down the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X route, but I wouldn't base Nintendo off of previous patterns if we don't know whether they're going through with the mindset of a home console revision or a handheld console revision.
No one here is talking about the next Nintendo console being backwards compatible or not. Heck, it's too early to even think about it! You're likely misreading what Pod was trying to say.
@Mince
I'm not saying backwards compatibility is silly.
But a backwards compatible successor to Switch is not the same thing as a stronger "Switch Pro" that straight up uses cartridges interchangably with the current systems.
I know that Nintendo didn't enforce that games HAD to work between the DSi and DS, and the New3DS and 3DS. If they had, they would be quite the hypocrites, considering the release of Xenoblade Chronicles.
Obviously, Moosdijk is talking about they games that they as a company are making. THOSE games would HAVE to work on older versions of the Switch if:
If the Switch Pro is a new system altogether, and marketed as such, the that's a different situation, and not the one Moosdijk is talking about.
Forget a Switch Pro. Nintendo just need to release a Switch 2 in 2023
@Scoopz if the pro doesn't come out this year then I agree with 2023 switch 2 with full backward compatibility.
@sixrings @Scoopz
An average console's lifespan is about 7 years, but based on what we've heard from Nintendo, they want the Switch to have a longer lifespan. Give it until 2025 or later when we get a new Nintendo console.
@NathanTheAsian What Nintendo would prefer and what the market dictates are two separate things. Bear that in mind. Even the enormously successful DS topped out at 7 yrs. Same for PS4. Nintendo cant keep a console afloat on their games alone. GC and Wii U showed that. Plus Switch is getting minute amounts of major 3rd party exclusives but instead just ports. With the new gen having just arrived bringing even more powerful competing hardware said major ports will reduce in number as theyll become harder to do justice. We'll get a new Nintendo hybrid in 2023.
Even the wii had complete third party shovel ware by the end.
@Scoopz That's 6 years, not 7. And this is coming from a console that has its library boosted by Wii U ports.
I think it has been well established by now that Nintendo follows their own path. People often treat it as a companion console and it has already been expected that ports won't be on par.
Nothing is predictable, and nothing is confirmed. 2023 may be the year that it all goes down because that's when most developers would've turned to next gen platforms, but there's nothing suggesting Nintendo would stop early, stop late, or stop on time.
@NathanTheAsian Im well aware 2023 is 6 years. I was making the point that "even" the enormously successful DS topped out at 7years thus highlighting how your proposed 2025 for a successor verges on ludicrous. Nintendo does attempt to chart its own path, however its naive to believe that it operates within its own bubble. It is still subject to market forces. So whilst Nintendo doesn't market itself as a direct competitor to Sony and MS, there is major crossover in audience and said audience does not have unlimited financial resources for recreation. Some people have to make choices between one of the 3 major consoles. Wii U ports arent going to carry the Switch to an unprecedented 8 year lifespan. Thats ridiculous. My prediction is that in 2022 the rumour mill will begin, specs will leak and then in 2023 we'll get a true successor. By then Switch will have outsold the Wii, PS1 and PS4 and had a commendable 6 year run. Lets see what happens
@SuperWeird we will see this play out on Halo Infinite witbe Series S and Series X, and I do think the series S will hold back Xbox gaming eventually because optimizing for less powerful hardware means you have to compromise on pushing performance on the more powerful hardware.
@AG_Awesome you should. Because you say the PS4 Pro did it, but it wasn't the main selling PS4 model. It was only put out because they wanted to see the other models at a cheaper price. They have even stopped production of the Pro, and it even didn't approach real 4K.
@Edu23XWiiU lol. And why should I care? Has nothing to do with my post. 🤣😂🤣😂
@Edu23XWiiU Lol. 🥲🥲
To sum this up;
-Most games wont take advantage of the higher specs of the Switch "Pro", as the best way to get their games to reach a high volume of people, would be to make sure their games are playable in the already widespread lower form factor.
As Developers don't want to develop games for 2 consoles, they may be leaning towards this .-
I will defiantly bet against this.
Nintendo may replace the dock-able Switch with the Switch "Pro", and eventually revise the Switch Lite with new features or faze it out. If dedicated chips are needed for Nintendo's way of targeting 4k or 2k, this most likely would be the case.
A lot of Devs have passed on the current form factor of the switch, as they don't think their games would give the player the best experience even if they lower the resolution. For their games to play either with-in or exceeding expectations, the dedicated chips are a must.
The library of Switch Pro Only games will build up over months, not overnight, making cut-off claims not much of an issue.
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