Wholesale slaughter has been a central theme in video games since the industry began, with titles like Spacewar! and Space Invaders rewarding the player for taking out as many enemies as possible.
As you might imagine, legendary game designer Shigeru Miyamoto has spoken out about such reductive game design in the past, even saying that he wanted the player to make amends with enemies they'd shot in GoldenEye 007 after the game was finished.
While that might sound like a hopelessly twee sentiment that's typical of family-friendly Nintendo, there's a more important point to be made here – as Miyamoto explains to Simon Parkin in his excellent New Yorker interview:
...I also resist the idea that it’s O.K. to simply kill all monsters. Even monsters have a motive, and a reason for why they are the way they are. This is something I have thought about a lot. Say you have a scene in which a battleship sinks. When you look at it from the outside, it might be a symbol of victory in battle. But a filmmaker or writer might shift perspective to the people on the ship, to enable the viewer to see, close up, the human impact of the action. It would be great if video-game makers took more steps to shift the perspective, instead of always viewing a scene from the most obvious angle.
However, Miyamoto admits that it's hard for him to explore these themes as Nintendo's strength is the ability to bring families together, and that's why Nintendo games perhaps don't tackle deep emotional topics in the same way that titles like The Last of Us do:
Video games are an active medium. In that sense, they don’t require complex emotions from the designer; it’s the players who take what we give them and respond in their own ways. Complex emotions are difficult to deal with in interactive media. I’ve been involved in movies, and passive media is much better suited to take on those themes. With Nintendo, the appeal of our characters is that they bring families together. Our games are designed to provide a warm feeling; everyone is able to enjoy their time playing or watching.
For example, when I was playing with my grandchild recently, the whole family was gathered around the television. He and I were focussed on what was happening on the screen, but my wife and the others were focussed on the child, enjoying the sight of him enjoying the game. I was so glad we had been able to produce something that facilitated this kind of communal experience. That’s the core of Nintendo’s work: to bring smiles to players’ faces. So I don’t have any regrets. If anything, I wish I could have provided more cheer, more laughter.
On that topic, Miyamoto also speaks about his desire to make the world a kinder, better place:
I wish I could make it so that people were more thoughtful and kind toward each other. It’s something that I think about a lot as I move through life. In Japan, for example, we have priority seating on train carriages, for people who are elderly or people with a disability. If the train is relatively empty, sometimes you’ll see young people sit in these seats. If I were to say something, they’d probably tell me: “But the train is empty, what’s the issue?” But if I were a person with a disability and I saw people sitting there, I might not want to ask them to move. I wouldn’t want to be annoying.
I wish we were all a little more compassionate in these small ways. If there was a way to design the world that discouraged selfishness, that would be a change I would make.
[source newyorker.com]
Comments 44
Japan sounds like a great place to live...
Good point.
When you jump on that Goomba's head and flatten him like a pancake, you are forgetting the little Goomba he leaves behind, who now has to sit in front of the TV on his own without big daddy Goomba to play with him.
I'm done killing Goomba's.
How about a game where bowser kills thousands of toads, before murdering Mario at the end?
Yes, Goombas had reasons... a WILL to live with purpose. They weren't just there to be stomped on. They wanted to kill themselves by walking into pits of death. O_o
Hoping Nintendo never go into detail about what Bowser wants Princess Peach for.
@MrGawain Bowser: So I hear you bake cakes...
@Razer
All I am thinking of is this one scene from Austin Powers with the henchman's family.
No need to think too hard about it. Sure, enemies and monsters may have their motivations, but so do you. Ultimately, people will do what they must.
I relate to that last portion so much. Just doing little things for one another would make the world a much better place based on that alone. I try to do small things like that all the time but I always feel nervous about talking to someone who doesn't do that for the same reasoning as he describes.
This is why they introduced Friendships in Mortal Kombat
@MrGawain he doesn't keep kidnapping her, he's her bull and Mario having to "rescue" her is part of their cuck games.
I think this kind of thinking came through a lot in Mario Sunshine where we saw Bowser Jr only targeted Mario because Bowser lied to him that Peach was his mum and telling him that Mario was an evil man who keeps kidnapping her. Bowser Jr actually thought he was doing a good thing! I felt bad for him, the way Bowser emotionally manipulated his child!
BTW I hate how they got rid of the fully voiced cut scenes in the games after Sunshine. Such a massive step backwards to go back to text boxes on Galaxy. Well we can thank everyone who shitted on Sunshine's dialogue for that.
Miyamoto: "I don't like having plot in Mario games"
Also Miyamoto:
I love eating magic mushrooms and jumping on turtles so I've never questioned the ethics of doing the same things in a video game.
On a serious note, Spec-ops the Line was a game that really stood out as one to question why we do certain things in a video game, along with the motives behind killing "enemies" blindly.
I think his comments are less about trying to understand the motives of monsters (like the headline suggests) and more about generally trying to include more emotional and ethical depth, and broaden the intellectual palate of gaming as a medium.
@nhSnork 🤣🤣🤣
I don't care. F*ck goombas.
Monster: But what’s my motivation?
Boss Monster: You attack the hero over and over again so they either die or take knockback damage into a precariously placed bottomless pit.
Monster: No no no no. I mean why do I want to do that? No offense but you are kind of a jerk. I get one gold coin or possibly a 1-up I can’t even use but the “hero” can kill me and loot my body for them?! What about my benefits package and 401k.
Boss Monster: .................Just be good little cannon fodder and try your best.
Reminds me of my job actually.
This was a big problem for me with Xenoblade Chronicles. There's all these wild animals of various species, just chilling out and chewing the cud, and the player has to slay them just for the purpose of levelling up. It's not like they even drop much in the way of useful resources, you just kill them to level up. I'm not an animal rights activist or vegetarian or anything, I just thought it was bad game design to kill things only for XP points, not for defence.
"You enjoy all the killing, that's why".
@gcunit XCX addressed that a little in that there was a mission where you could spare the creatures. If you did, they attacked people later killing them. They also had passive creatures that wouldn’t attack unless provoked, while others attacked on sight.
"Nintendo games perhaps don't tackle deep emotional topics" Fire Emblem, Sometimes Zelda, and Xnoblade EXIST
@Darknyht @gcunit
I was just about to mention Xenoblade X and how I love how quickly they establish that the biggest indigenous lifeforms aren't hostile. They're just drinking water all day. Unlike my friend who does grind the innocents for XP, I had a fairly strict self-defense only policy in that game so there were lots of creatures I just never experienced combat with. I didn't even like waking up the sleeping giants (there's an expression about it) so I probably won't ever 100% that game.
I did let the pigs live, and they did kill someone. I have to live with that. Still great game design that you're not in this new alien biome to kill everything in sight. I got most of my levels from XP from exploration, in the beginning at least.
Sounds like the man who diminishes the importance of story is beginning to turn over.
Miyamoto-dono is a gift to the world.
He wouldn’t want to see my stats for Super Mario Bros. 35... all joking aside, beautiful sentiments Miyamoto-San, and I wish more thought like him and like my other hero, Michael Jackson.
I love that bit about making the world less selfish. I contend with that everyday and it is sad. Maybe one day things will change on a grand scale. Until then I will do my best to institute local victories as much as I can.
Every time someone goes on about daily life in Japan, it makes me wish I lived there. That is my type of life style.
Amending the design of the joy cons, and stopping giving every man, woman, child, and dog cease and desist letters would bring a smile to many faces.
@gcunit, well if you keep up on doing quests you should be adequately levelled enough to not have to engage random wildlife in XC outside of the creatures that attack you on sight (and even then, I've found that I relatively quickly became strong enough that not even those monsters will attack me, unless it's the occasional really strong one that you're supposed to avoid until endgame anyways).
Sure, sometimes quests will send you after peaceful creatures, but they generally have some sort of purpose such as collecting ingredients for food.
I don't think Goombas actually die, they just use black magic to warp themselves back to Bowser's current hideout so they can be reinflated by a Koopa and sent back out again
He should play UNDERTALE
I recall there's a scene in Paper Mario: Color Splash on the train where there's a bunch of Bowser's henchmen who comment on how they're conscripted into his army.
It really would be cool if we got a massive Mario game that was a lot more mature than the ones we get today. That would be awesome.
@Dpullam you think they walk around jumping on Goomba's all day?
Hmm 🤔, i can definitely see myself doing this.
@Amrulez
Like anywhere, it has it's own problems. What makes Japan look so attractive is that a lot of the worst things we have in the west they simply don't. Corporate and personal accountability is huge parts of social morality. The idea that wealth is a goal for wealth's sake doesn't really exist ... you seek wealth to better your community. So obviously that looks extremely attractive to people living in a country where the wealth gap between the highest earner and average earner is about 1000 times higher then it was between a serf and a King in the 1800s.
And don't get me wrong, of all the places I've lived Japan is the clear winner, but ... some generalizations are that they hate foreigners, social dogma and pressure to conform to your role is overwhelming and sexism ... while extremally different then our sexism, is nonetheless off the charts. It's hard to get a feel for what a place is like until you've been their for a year or longer, I would say.
On my metro area's light rail system, you're free to sit in the disabled seating area (with more leg room) if it's empty, but then you're forced to move if someone in a wheelchair (in which case the seats are folded up) or other physical disability gets on the train and needs the seats. The Japanese are just too polite sometimes.
@gcunit I hated that too. I want the weak monsters to at least bother me.
@HeadPirate Then again, if Japanese manga and light novels are any indication, Japan has a major problem with black companies and labor laws that are either inadequate or rarely enforced. Meanwhile, here in the U.S., a corporate boss would be quickly fired or even arrested if he tried to force his employees to work unpaid overtime, while whistle-blowing laws protect those who come forward against them. Heck, you're supposed to pay overtime at a even higher rate than normal!
@LatsaSpege To be fair, two of those three are second party series, and as such they likely have more freedom over their story elements.
@HeadPirate
Thank you for that reply, very interesting stuff.
@Noid Actually I think he wants the player to make their own story. Which is a more noble cause.
@BulbasaurusRex
I don't mean to be dismissive, but you simply can't understand what's going on here with a western mindset, where your boss is the one keeping you in line and always demanding more.
The labour laws are some of the best in the world and strictly enforced. Hell there are TWO clauses in their constitution to protect the right to unionize. Overtime starts at 40 hours and you have the right to refuse it (mostly). Paid leave, paternity leave, everything you could ask for.
But ... you ever seen a 24 year old barely getting by create an elaborate lie to hide the fact that he worked 20 extra hours week because both his union and his boss are trying to give him money he refuses to take? People sneak into work after they are forced to take their vacation days? COMMON in Japan, because of that social pressure I was telling you about. Unlike the west, you boss has your back and your best interests in mind, and you are supposed to reward that with irrational loyalty. No one ASKS for it, because they don't need to. Your BOSS isn't going to get mad at you for asking for overtime pay, your friends and family are. It doesn't make you a bad employee, it makes you a bad Japanese person.
So like I said ... not objective better, just different problems.
@HeadPirate Like I said, I'm just referring to what I've read in manga and light novels. They frequently have cases (particularly in some isekai works where the main protagonist dies from overwork) where characters are forced to work unpaid overtime against their will (when they would clearly choose to work fewer hours if they could), and their only legal recourse is to quit and hopefully find another job at a better company. If that's not actually accurate, then those authors are the ones to blame for misrepresenting Japanese society.
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