Paper Mario Producer Says He's "Not Opposed To The Fans' Opinions"

He needs to get off his high horse. He constantly says that he listens to fans and then he willfully ignores what the fans request. It is beyond apparent at this time, the fans want a more traditional RPG with elements of audience and stage mechanics. You want new innovation? Have the audience interact differently, stage elements happen differently, have enemies interact with the audience more often, have new battle mechanics like the star powers from one and two, or have new innovative styles of partners. ALL of these styles of changes have been used in the Mario & Luigi series. That series does not have nearly as many troubled development periods as the Paper Mario series. Tanabe is willfully defiant to the fans and then acts shocked when the fans get upset.

There is no sugar-coating this. Either Tanabe needs to improve his attitude towards fans, or he needs to get out of the development of the games that fans want.

Just a remake of 64 and TTYD would suffice ... I mean if we are dishing out ports

How about they innovate as much as the New Super Mario Bros. series?

i.e. not at all.

Ok Tanabe you’ve had your fun. Now a return to form would be a shocking surprise to everyone. Trust me, we’d never see it coming.

I just don't get it. The first three Paper Mario games are super distinct to me. Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Origami King feel way less ambitious in terms of innovative new ideas.

Fans: "We can't wait for our favourite serie to innovate and evolve on top of the systems we know and love!"

Developer: "Fans are clearly saying they just want the same with no changes so we got rid of all the systems they enjoyed."

It amazes me how many times this misunderstanding have happened...

You know what would be really innovative and unique? If you actual made a game that honoured the things that made people fall in love with the series in the first place.

This innovation for the sake of innovation stuff is nonsense.

Sorry to say this, but he’s right. Instead of making the same old game he is testing the waters. Where would we be if game developers never tested the waters? Every game would be the same and nothing would stand out. Zelda changed the play style and got more popular than ever. Pokémon stayed the same and was a highly divisive release. There always will be those who want a return to form, but innovation and change are healthy for a series.

I agree TTYD is the best Paper Mario game but I’m willing to give this one a chance.

Can I be honest? If this is the direction they want to go, fine with me. Can we see a traditional RPG style game with another Nintendo franchise?

Could potentially meld well with Metroid, gating Samus' traditionally earned abilities behind XP and a skill tree.

Maybe put Kirby in the RPG box, aligning his signature ability stealing behind swallowing a certain number of enemies, XP, or a boss character, creating a pseudo-RPG vania? Could also be an opportunity to refresh the Kirby IP and put some true story / lore into the games.

Would even be cool in Pikmin 4, with Nintendo's recent easy mechanic behind a condition gate. If you lose too many Pikmin of a certain type you earn XP and 'unlock' abilities that make the game easier, like your Pikmin evolve tougher skin or more HP or something.

I kinda assumed nintendo would move Paper Mario into more of an action game like Super Paper Mario and keep the Mario and Luigi games as the RPG series.

I think it's important to recognise that the people pestering developers on Twitter represent a very small fraction of the fan base of Paper Mario. I'd guess a significant percentage of players are under the age of 10 and care little about the type of gameplay it has, as long as they're fun. Which judging by reviews the most recent game is.

5000 people complaining on twitter(I don't think there's even that many) shouldn't really get to dictate the content of a game played by a million. It's probably a lot more interesting for developers working on new mechanics, rather than recycling old ones.

I just finished Origami King. A truly excellent game; among the best in the series, in my opinion.
Please, keep surprising us, Mr. Tanabe!

I finished the game. It was average at best. If you are going to have a gimmicky combat system, reduce the number of encounters so the player doesn't feel forced into so many dull battles. I have never played the 'old paper mario games' but if it was like Bug Fables, this current Paper Mario doesn't touch it. Origami King is an incredibly disappointing experience for me.
Even the Mario & Luigi games are much better than TOK.

He's not opposed...he just doesn't care. Paper Mario has become a different series with the same name.

Nintendo's strength has always been innovation and new gameplay ideas, but I always find it a shame that we never see so many ideas return. But that does makes those older games special?.…...in a way?
We just have to hope they make the most of the concept while they're working on it.

Keep doing what you're doing, man.
The last two Paper Mario games were great.
Finished Origami King yesterday, good stuff!

Ya, it was quite innovative to have more restrictions placed on the character designs.

I feel there's a big difference between innovation and change for change's sake.

Producer: thanks for the feedback but screw you all i'm going with my idea. HE need to wake up!

"He needs to get off his high horse. He constantly says that he listens to fans and then he willfully ignores what the fans request"

Fans telling someone to get off his high horse. Pots and kettles don't even begin to describe it.

And how is that mutually exclusive? Wishful thinking (while polite and unimposing) is a free action and many creators are curious about it, but heeding what you hear, let alone at the expense of own visions and goals, is a different thing altogether. The industry is not a commission table. If what it does isn't up your alley, you can always go buy and play something else or invest in another hobby for the time being. The golden rule of Fiction bears repeating: we audiences have the right to dislike what creators do, they have the right to do what we dislike. That's how things roll in a civilized environment, at least - sadly, fandoms aren't one by definition.

Would they even be able to top TTYD anyway if they tried?

This guy would never allow Botw to happen what a close minded fool, people will say Botw was innovative and different but the team has never been shy talking about how they looked to the original Zelda for inspiration rather than making another OOT style game with random new mechanics. For years people wanted a return to the open ended Zelda that felt fun and at times scary to explore and Nintendo was rewarded handsomely by listening to them.
The biggest selling Switch games have been aligned towards giving players what they want and are far removed from this producers mindset. Odyssey, Smash Ultimate and Animal Crossing New Horizons are obvious examples: people wanted a return to open Mario 64 style 3D Mario, a Smash that didn’t cut characters and tuned the gameplay to be faster like Melee and a Animal Crossing that let you really customize the town which is one of those things people have begged for since the original.

The battle system is the least of the problems with the newest Paper Mario entries.

https://i.imgur.com/c7NJRa2.gif

I find it funny that Pokemon gets bashed for “not innovating enough”, while Paper Mario gets bashed for “innovating too much”.

Except I sort of don’t because phrasing thing in terms of ‘degree of innovation’ doesn’t present an accurate picture. The most recent Pokemon games - as overblown as their faults were - can be quite fairly said to not harness the full potential of the Switch in moving the series forward. Compare the jump between Sw/Sh and S/M to something like BotW and Skyward Sword, and there’s a clear gap in ambition. While the core ideas of BotW can be traced all the way back to the original Zelda on the NES, the scale is vastly expanded and reimagined on new hardware.

I feel that the concept of ‘innovation’ with the Paper Mario series is a rather narrowly viewed as being simply about the core mechanics. I mean, let’s be honest, the battle mechanics of the first two games weren’t exactly anything particularly exceptional. Which is not to say they were bad. They were good. In the way that pretty much every standard RPG battle system is good. They just weren’t exceptional, save for the addition of timed button inputs (one of the few things that has remained consistent throughout the series). The battle system was... just fine. But people never really fell in love with Paper Mario for its innovative battle system. They fell in love with it for the depth, eccentricity, and imagination poured into its worlds and characters. TTYD had ideas never before seen in a Mario game, and it just ran, and ran, and ran with them.

Centering the entire debate around the battle system largely misses the point (although admittedly, a bad battle system can ruin an otherwise good game). ‘Innovating’ the core mechanics is all well and good, but when it still feels like the overall scope of of the game is being throttled by needless creative restrictions, it’s less likely to be welcomed as ‘innovation’ as more as ‘unnecessary tinkering’.

To be fair, Intelligent Systems has got better at working within these restrictions over the years, and the new battle systems have got less bad. But, when you look at the rich tapestry of delightful weirdness on display in something like The Thousand Year Door, it’s not difficult to see why many people feel the series isn’t reaching its full potential.

For the record, I’m enjoying Origami King. I’m glad I’ve bought it. But, like, there are good games and amazing games. And I’d love to have another game unapologetically dripping in originality like the GC classic.

@Orpheus79V Yes, if Ryota Kawade came back. He was the chief director of the original Paper Mario trilogy, a lot of the interesting and kooky things the series was known for was because of him. Now it just feels relatively bland and milquetoast.

I’ll be interested to see where OK sells numbers end up. I believe the series could have more potential.

@shazbot I totally agree. If anything, I'd be more excited to see series such as Metroid or Zelda attempting a turn based combat system.

I'd love to see a Zelda game where Link and Zelda team up in combat in turn based battles. You could easily utilize the idea of sages for a party, with a Goron, a Zora, a Rito etc. Essentially the BotW Champions, but all playable.

Zelda and it's dungeons would translate to a JRPG so easily. Metroid would be cool too, but I struggle to imagine what the party would look like.

I agree with him 100%.

Of course, this comment section is exactly what I thought it would be. And to be honest, they're right. If he truly listens to fans opinions and cares about them he'd give us more games already.

Sometimes Nintendo gets caught up in innovation for the sake of innovation rather than focusing on what will actually benefit the game at hand. I appreciate them trying something new but at the same time its a series that really needs to get back on track so why not look to its best entries for inspiration?

“At the same time, there’s no guarantee that we’ll always succeed in doing that – so it’s a real challenge.”

Yeah, you haven’t succeeded in the last three entries. Origami King’s battle system is tedious and so long-winded that I dread running into enemies within a few hours of playing. It literally just repeated the same puzzles over and over again. There is no reward whatsoever outside of coins that you can just re-enter areas to get with no effort. The RPG element has no thought put into it whatsoever. Each equip item you can use is just the same item with different tiers. The occasional comedic dialogue is all this series has left.

@LeonBelmontX I agree! The only reason I am not the biggest Zelda Fan is because I don't really enjoy the real time combat.

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that he and his team are under orders from Miyamoto to NOT make a game too similar to TTYD.
Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that if Shigsy gave him the creative freedom we'd most likely get the games the fans desire.
I don't know why some of you are gobbling up this 'innovative' lark when several Mario series use the same base each time and improved upon them. Mario & Luigi, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Kart etc. etc. None of them changed as much as Paper Mario did, they just evolved. Just like TTYD was to Paper Mario 64. So you can't tell me a game that improves or adds twists to TTYD would be a bad idea, we've already seen that continuously evolving a series works.
And let's not forget how Colour Splash was basically Sticker Star 2.0. How can you possibly say that the devs are making the right choices and everything they say makes sense when they literally got one game in the series and tried to improve on it which is exactly what we want done with TTYD? It makes no sense.
TL;DR: Saying that keeping the core game similar to TTYD would be boring or not a good idea is nonsense and hypocritical when several Mario IPs already do this and they even did it with their own games Sticker Star and Colour Splash!
I wish they'd just admit that Miyamoto has them on a creative leash and tell us what they'd actually create given the choice, but that wouldn't make for good PR, now would it?

@LordGeovanni @TYRANACLES @Not_Soos @BakaKnight @tanaka2687 @ReWane @SalvorHardin I think you all nailed it, others too. For people who think we're being fanboys/girls because we're disappointed, try to hear us out. Most of us like innovation, but it would be nice if it was in addition to the solid mechanics and variety of well-developed characters of the original trilogy. A lot of those things that made the Paper Mario series so special have been taken away including the badge system and unique looking partners. One of the many things that underwhelms me about this current game is the bosses. In Paper Mario 2 TTYD we had Rawk Hawk, Doopliss, and a surprising final boss. In Paper Mario 3 SPM we had Francis, Mr. L, and a whole rogues gallery for the main villains. In Origami King we have...a box of colored pencils and a hole puncher.

I enjoyed PM64 and Super Paper, but honestly enjoyed the Mario & Luigi RPGs more. TTYD is in my backlog, but the way everyone talks about it, as if it’s untouchable perfection, I can’t help but fear I’m going to be disappointed when I eventually get round to it (kinda like FF7, though that may be more due to lingering console bias and annoyance at game-breaking glitches not being fixed after 20 years).

I totally get that artists crave creative freedom and therefore want to try out new ideas all the time.

However, if Tanabe values innovation above all else, he should ask to be assigned to new Nintendo IPs.
He kept disappointing Paper Mario fans with innovations we didn't want for 15 years now, which comes across as a tad selfish.

After giving Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star a chance, I've ignored every other outing in the series.

@gaga64 Nah, it'll be fine. If you ever have the time go and play Thousand-Year Door, none of those glitches and bugs here, and I still like Final Fantasy VII. A great game is a great game, just try not to look at too many let's plays or videos on Thousand Year Door because the small and big moments are worth discovering on your own.

Well, Mario & Luigi is no more. So there's no excuses anymore!

I enjoyed TOK, but I'll say this:

Nintendo used the excuse that M&L exists to justify altering Paper Mario, but the developer behind that property folded, so we've gone from having two Mario RPG series to zero. I'm cool with Paper Mario not being an RPG series, but Nintendo needs to fill the Mario RPG gap with something new, in that case.

@TrevorMcD Exactly! People love to act like us "TTYD fanboys" want no change and just want the same game over and over again, but the fact of the matter is, most of us still really enjoyed Super Paper Mario, too. Paper Mario was always about pushing the envelope and giving us unique characters, locations, and scenarios we wouldn't expect from a regular Mario game. The Mario & Luigi series did this too, but since AlphaDream went under, many of us are just desperate to have another Mario game with a compelling story. Modern Paper Mario just feels like it's become the new New Super Mario Bros. where the formula changes very little. Except at least with New Super Mario Bros., the core gameplay is at least enjoyable despite the samey-ness of them all. Personally, as Super Paper Mario has proven, I don't think the franchise has to be an RPG, but the gameplay needs to be fun instead of intrusive and the story and characters need to be compelling.

@DDFawfulGuy Yeah, they admitted in a very polite and respectful way that Miyamoto gave them orders on high. It's strange that he of all people put restrictions on Paper Mario on the things that made it so special.

I never played a Paper Mario game, so I can't really give my two cents on this specific case. However, I'll say that favoring innovation, for innovation's sake, over fun gameplay is a recipe for disaster.

But he wouldn't be making the same game "over and over again" There's literally just two Paper Mario games that use the blueprint most fans are asking for (the first two) Innovation for innovations sake is pointless...

Is Origami King even that innovative?? Not particularity I'd say.

You change something like a game, and some will like the change and some won't.

Fire Emblem seems to have worked for more of the fans than not, with the changes made to it, but Paper Mario's change have not gone down as well as the FE changes.

I do not like the FE changes, but did not mind the Paper Mario changes. The addition of the monastery in FE for me detracted from the game. But I don't mind Paper Mario changing, it's just that the introduction of the battle system was not very good and I did not complete the game,it became tedious. if Nintendo change things they win some loose some.

That's good to hear. Buddy, you're on teh right track, just need to provide EXP for doing battles, and perhaps make more new characters (like those trees at the beginning of TOK) if it's impossible to adjust existing ones.

@Not_Soos Indeed. And I would still say that even Super Paper Mario is an RPG because it's a platforming action RPG. I still remember the moment when I reached 1 million experience points. That game was like a drug, in a good way.

You can still have an innovative battle system with rpg mechanics, literally just add xp and people will be happy.

Also, not allowing them to make new races and characters doesn't sound too innovative to me.

Nearly finished Origami King. Don’t think I’ll buy any more in the series after this

For first few hours I was bored.
Then game gets interesting, but easy as hell For the next 99% of game
Then the bloody game show happens, which is unskippable, crap, and I hated every minute of it
Then you start getting one hit deaths, and having to repeat sections over and over ... to boredom sets in

@gauthieryannick No offence but you sound more like a fanboy yourself than others in this discussion. People who criticise poor decisions are NOT fanboys... Fanboys are the ones who think their favourite company can do no wrong and will blindly defend them at every turn, even when they're putting out lower par games (as in the Paper Mario series) than they have previously...

@Clyde_Radcliffe There are fanboys who only respect a game and not the developers. Fanboys who are more interested in being pacified by the old than seeing the creators experiment with new .This is exactly the same as the Star Wars fanboys who hated the Prequel Trilogy and went after George Lucas for wanting to experiment.

Nintendo, Intelligent Systems and Tanabe should have freedom to take their series where they want to. You don't have to like it, but should respect there's no requirement for it return to what it was before, no matter how much you liked it that way.

So he's basically saying, lol stay mad imma do what I want. I can get behind that attitude.

"You can't judge a game without playing it first!"
Not everyone has $60 of disposable income laying around to hurl at a game they're pretty sure they aren't going to like. I also watched an entire 30+ hour playthrough on YouTube to give it a fair chance, and I just wasn't feeling it.

"Stop being so entitled! Be thankful for what you get!"
Entitlement is just how capitalism works. Consumers have needs/wants, and if they aren't being met, they will start looking to other competitors on the market who can meet their needs. That's just basic supply-and-demand, and it isn't good business sense to ignore what people want. I love Nintendo dearly, but I'm not going to be "thankful" that the most profitable company in Japan right now is refusing to listen to what its fanbase wants. They have the money and the resources to do it.

"Nintendo doesn't owe you anything!"
They do if they want my money.

"Just let people enjoy things!"
Everyone who likes Origami King is entitled to their opinion, just as the rest of us are entitled to ours. No one should have to feel bad or guilty about liking Origami King, but no one should feel bad or guilty for liking Thousand-Year Door. It's a double standard. There's no reason to get nasty with each other.

"TTYD fanboys just want the same game again and again!"
Not really. Most of us love Super Paper Mario, too which was very different. It didn't even have RPG elements. We just want original characters again instead of the same basic NPC's and a barebones plot. Filling in holes with confetti is the same thing as painting white spots in Color Splash, among other similarities. I'm not really sure how that counts as more innovation than the old games had.

"The TTYD fan base is so toxic!"
It would be great if we can get past labeling an entire community. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about a game and trying to get a company's attention if you aren't happy. But name-calling with slurs like "babies" is where things start to get toxic. At the end of the day, we're all gamers.

"Origami King has the best writing in the series to date!"
It's fine if you think that, but the jokes just don't land for me. Lots of puns and meme humor like you'd find on Twitter. It feels like low-hanging fruit to me, and I don't think it's going to age very well.

"The game is more emotional than you think! What about the part where [spoiler]?"
The lack of original character designs just makes the NPCs feel one-dimensional to me. Yes, I've seen the whole game, but nothing made me emotional because I never felt a connection with the characters.

I'll end on a positive and say I actually quite liked the game's soundtrack. A handful of songs were every bit as good as TTYD or SPM, so that's definitely something. I also really liked the design of the angel Toads in Shangri-Spa. More unique outfits like that would have been great.

@gaga64

If you enjoyed the first and third Paper Mario games, I see no reason why you wouldn't like Thousand-Year Door, even if you're worried people have over-hyped it for you. Just go in with the expectation that it will be at least as good as those two games and I don't think you'll be disappointed. Personally, Thousand-Year Door is my favorite game ever, but you might not come out of it feeling the same way. If I hadn't gone into it blind, I'm not sure if it would have resonated with me in the same way.

Also, the Mario & Luigi series is great, too! No shame if you prefer those over Paper Mario. I can't say I agree, but they're still really solid games.

@Dr_Lugae But it's not just fanboys, it's everyone who's played TOK and the orbital games. Have you seen ANYONE who says they PREFER the battle system in The Origami King to the earlier games or that they PREFER having hundreds of copy and pasted Toad's to a wider variety of characters?

Yes, you could say people who've only played The Origami King or later games might not mind but that's only because they have nothing for comparison (ignorance is bliss) The views of everyone else are relentlessly one sided. It can't just be fanboys.

@Not_Soos Personally I'd say not only the jokes, the storytelling in Origami King is an advancement on TTYD and Super Paper Mario.

Those two games are full of exposition and flatly explain every single plot point, sometimes multiple times. TOK has a simple story but it gets across a lot more characterisation and emotion in far less text and uses techniques like subtext and foreshadowing. The chapters smoothly flow into each other and the tension carries over from one scenario to another.

So when you say it' has got a barebones plot compared to TTYD/SPM...the only things those game have which TOK doesn't is needlessly bloated scripts and story pacing/tone that grinds to a halt at the end of each chapter. To go back to that kind of storytelling is a massive step back in my eyes.

@Clyde_Radcliffe I wouldn't say that at all, this isn't a case of whether someone "minds" the latest games design decisions, the games each have their own strengths to their approach.

In TOK (and Color Splash) most of the NPCs are Toads and Bowsers minions but they are way more animated than the previous games, there's a lot more action to the story scenes. The older games have a lot of variety across the cast. However anyone not call Mario or Peach didn't even have back sprites, any character who wasn't also a boss battle weren't even animated beyond jiggling their limbs a bit.

The fanboys purposely blinker themselves and make unfair comparisons that play only to the strengths of the favourites to pretend there's no drawbacks. Anyone who's played all the games knows that a comparison between NPCs shouldn't just be what they look like.

"If we used the same gameplay system wanted by the fans again and again, we wouldn’t be able to surprise them or deliver new gameplay experiences."

laughs in Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Tales of, PM64/TTYD, Pokémon, Megaman Battle Network, etc.

It’s messed up to just say f$&@ the fans opinions on games. I just want to say though so far paper Mario for the Wii is by far the best paper Mario game made. It surprised us with a new villain, and the theatrical atmosphere was unique and lovely. Hint-ity hint hint hint. I really would like to see king Wart return instead of bowser over and over again. Talk about surprise when it’s alway most of the time bowser.

And I'll keep not buying it.

people should all start asking for mario story specifically, never say paper mario again, reject the name/brand.

I'd rather be pleasantly unsurprised than unpleasantly surprised. The ring battle system wouldve actually been fun if battles yielded experience towards character progression. Instead, they get real old real fast and only serve to pad out the gameplay.

@LordOfGames It's hurting Star Fox and Splatoon, too. Less so Splatoon, but people don't have any control over online play options and modes.

@LordOfGames stroywise it was great. Gameplay... Not so much.

Like someone else said, change can be good. I actually think the 64 Paper Mario is my favorite, but I enjoyed the Wii Paper Mario fwiw. It had interesting mechanics/dimension swapping, etc.

But the battle mechanics in this game were tedious, to put it gently. I enjoyed some of the story elements, but not quite enough for me to move past hating the actual gameplay. If he wanted to innovate, why not go all the way? There was literally one area where the villians required you to solve the puzzle differently-ish. Why not more of that? If you're gonna make a puzzle game then just give me some actual puzzles.

After playing through most of The Origami King, I'm willing to ease my negative opinions on it. The game tried to be every Paper Mario game and I will give Intelligent Systems some credit for at least trying. It certainly doesn't live up to the standards set by The Thousand-Year Door, but it does stand on its own as something that was meant to appeal to ALL Paper Mario fans while introducing something uniquely different.

@Dr_Lugae While I strongly disagree, I can respect your opinion about the writing. I'm not sure I get where you're coming from about the animations, though. Paper Mario has always had somewhat stiff movement, but in the old games, I always felt like there was a bit more motion going on. Flurrie might at least sway her arms while floating up and down, or you might could see Mario's chest inflating and deflating while he's breathing. In the new games, I feel like since they leaned into the Paper aesthetic, they try to make it look more stop-motion and only have two or three frames of animation for each action.

I also don't really like how the newer games show characters from different angles. Mario never faced forward in the old ones, and when he does, I just think he looks super derpy. Same for, say, Bowser. The bosses are more animated since they're 3D models, sure, but when they're just common office supplies, I don't think that makes them very interesting, in my opinion. It isn't enough for me to compensate for the lack of personality.

What a load of bull. He doesn't care about the older Paper Mario fans one bit does he?

Now I actually don't care what he does with the gameplay, all I want from Paper Mario are good story and characters, hence why Super and TTYD are my favorites. The only time I have a problem with gameplay is if it doesn't work, which all of the 3 Tanabe games do suffer from. In the first 3, you had an actual reason to battle. You leveled up. You got to increase your health, attack, FP, BP, and you'd get coins and items. But the Tanabe games? JUST COINS.

Im not saying Paper Mario needs to fully return to the roots of the good 3, Im just saying it needs to have the base things of what defines Paper Mario as a series, which are a reason to battle besides coins and a good story with good characters.

@LordOfGames I strongly agree. Super Paper Mario is the perfect example of innovation for the series. The story and characters were still there, as well as some RPG Elements. And it still was able to surprise us with innovation without completely changing the series' identity

@Not_Soos couldn't have said it better myself

They want to create surprising experiences?At this point, a game with the “same” rpg battle system WOULD be a surprising experience.

By animation I mean unique actions.

In Color Splash for example in Violet Passage a Toad that has an animation for steering the wheel of the ship. The animations are stop motion style with few frames but involve have more NPCs doing more things and a lot more unique frames. Like TOK having Kamek hike his robe up when he's running away.

In TTYD Bobbery steers Flavio's ship...by standing still on the back of it. The price of the earlier games expanded cast is that the animation is thinly spread, a lot of important NPCs do anything but walk into rooms and talk. A really noticeable one is the rich Koopa in TTYD who's supposed to be "in bed" is just stood up on the bed. Like most of the motion you mentioned is just lots of tweening in the characters idle pose, there aren't unique sprites in these animations the pieces of the body are just static objects floating or being rotated.

For the same amount of work by developers the more unique character models a game has the less distinct animations the average character is going to have.

@Ralizah I agree. Maybe it's time for a brand new Mario RPG game series? That would sure hype me up, but I would like to see M&L return just as badly

@LeonBelmontX Chozo, rouge space pirates, cyborgs, or possibly (get this) METROIDS. I think a Metroid rpg could be incredible.

He can do whatever he wants. But without old Paper Mario and now that Mario & Luigi is... dead??? we basically don't have any Nintendo IP RPG Series... Fire Emblem being the exception but it's a Niche RPG style that usually doesn't appeal to the large public.

screw us

I mean, it's fine to incorporate adventure game elements IN an RPG, they have a lot of common ground, the issue is they're trying to do that, but they also keep attempting to phase out the RPG stuff for no real reason.

At this point part of me just wants Intelligent Systems to make some kind of point-and-click Mario adventure game so they have no excuse to shoehorn that kind of stuff into a PM game, but another part of me at this point is too tired to care anymore.

I think it's fine if paper mario is supposed to be an experimental series that's not of a defined genre.... But the strategy of them doing that was based on the reality that they already had a Mario traditional rpg series with M&L, and they're wasn't room for 2 simultaneous Mario rpgs. With AlphaDream gone, Nintendo needs to consider of they have ANY Mario rpg at all anymore.... I don't think the same problem would exist if we had another actual rpg to look forward to. .

@LordGeovanni " traditional RPG with elements of audience and stage mechanics"

Is that what fans want? I don't. This is probably why they can't give fans what we want if we don't even agree on what that is. Traditional rpg mechanics, yes. Stage and audience mechanics was as limited a gimmick as the puzzle wheel and the stickers. That should stay in it's game and new games shouldn't be doing that, while still sticking to exp and turn based attack selection.

Then again, i still think that legend of the seven stars is the only truly great and timeless Mario rpg.

@Franklin
Well, there was the one Van Gogh level. And at least NSLU is a challenge.
Real talk, no excuses for NSMBU and NSMB2 being as samey to the prior two as they are.

Alright since you don't want to listen to the fans, you could at least remaster 64 and TTYD so we can have the Paper Marios we loved

I feel like Origami King would have benefitted the most if it completely dropped the RPG aspects of its design. If Paper Mario wants to return to its RPG roots then good, but for now it looks like it wants to keep a little bit of everything without committing to any particular genre.

@TrevorMcD Kawade worked on Super Paper Mario alongside Tanabe. lol

Honestly? I've really been enjoying Origami King. And after playing through Bug Tales right before, I realized that I'm tired of the old system. Count me on team Tanabe.

@rushiosan yeah...the villains motivations in OK was absurdity. XD

It really depends on if you're old-school or not, those who start with the Paper Mario series when it began on the N64 would be clamouring for a return to form like the original but those who start with the series from Super Paper Mario onward may look at the changes as nothing major to complain about as it's just another Mario adventure game. As much as I like the old school Paper Mario, I think there's no turning it back to the old-school ways anymore. Nintendo is better to just make the Mario & Luigi series cater to the old-school RPG gamers while keeping the Paper Mario series to the newcomers that way those who still loves the old-school turn based RPG gameplay would at least have one series they could hold onto. Making a new Paper Mario doesn't necessarily mean they'll had to dropped the Mario & Luigi RPG series.

I don’t understand how Tanabe’s comments match up to reality. There’s nothing wrong with coming up with unique battle systems (hell that’s what made the first two games so amazing) but with no EXP or progression the combat in these latest entries is meaningless.

I see no reason why levelling can’t be included with these new combat systems, so I don’t understand what he’s trying to say.

I'm not opposed to swimming naked in the arctic.

...oh I'm sorry, I thought we were just saying blatantly untrue things.

@Not_Soos
I seem to be in full agreement with pretty much everything you've said here - and I especially appreciate your respectful attitude, even toward those whose opinions are essentially the opposite of yours (and mine).

At this point, I believe I'm about halfway through Origami King, but left off playing it about 3 or 4 weeks ago. (I will continue it eventually, though.) TBH, I just found myself not caring a whole lot about the story and characters. Hearing my good friend "Bob-omb" speak about an old friend of his, also named "Bob-omb", was... ugh... The battle system is... odd. (I'd kind of like the game to address why it is that Mario now has the supernatural ability to rearrange the positioning of enemies at his whim, and the enemies just kind of go along with it. Seems like an ability that would've been helpful in any of Mario's previous thousand games, lol.)

I definitely miss the earlier games, which felt far more unique and drew me in emotionally - especially SPM and TTYD. I did like Color Splash more than Sticker Star, at least, but it still left no impact on me. And so far, this game seems shockingly similar to the last one (other than the battling, which - although it's nice to not be using immediately disposable stickers or cards - is getting pretty tedious to me). I'm not sure, but this might be the last PM game I buy right from the start. In the future, I'll probably wait and see what the next one looks and feels like before deciding whether to buy it.

Hmm.. This got me thinking. M&L sells about as well as mario party. Maybe they can give the IP to another developer. Maybe they can give it to Next Level... Wait tanabe works with NL games so... maybe monolith

I would prefer if they had two teams - one that develops games that the fans actually want, and one that creates new experiences that everyone might love. I can dream.

I'd like a remaster of the first three games, but I'm kinda worried that if they do they'll put an ugly white border around every character and make everything overtly out of paper and cardboard.

I understand wanting to do new things. But there is wanting to do your own thing and then there is willingly ignoring constructive criticism, from what I heard, the writing in TOK is up there as some of the best in the series, BUT writing is only 50% in an RPG imo, actively avoiding battles because there's no reason to battle when you can get coins everywhere else, it's a red flag to me when I am encouraged to avoid 50% of your game. To be honest I agree with @Not_Soos on pretty much every point.

This is all complete stoogery from the top... hogwash and horseradish to them I say. You are talking about a game series which was built DELIBERATELY on a TEMPLATE of traditional RPG elements. What a load of hot gas to claim that this franchise was ever intended to be a festering slew of ingenuity. Yes Mario RPG was a fantastic take on the genre - and NOT because it completely abandoned the archetypes entirely - but because it creatively evolved what had been set into motion by the genre. The very appeal and cleverness came from the knods at the original framework. It's like a painter who crafts a likeness of a person and then marvels at the tapestry - avowing all knowledge that its essence came from its mimicry of reality... with no intention to supplant the initial creative seed.

Whatever drunken spout of mental koolaid this man drinks from, it's time to shut off the tap and look at what people are saying outside of your office.

Inherited his design philosophy from Miyamoto... Yup, the IP is doomed for anyone who wants something akin to the older games. Kind of relieved I never got into it, but I feel bad for my friends who are fans.

I’ve not played it and now I’m glad I’ve not tipped my toe in the water. This comment section is proof that he Paper Mario community is not for me.

Now if only people were this pressing towards Sakurai, he would actually have motivation to fix his game.

It is a good thing to want to innovate, yes, but when your series keeps getting shot down for the 'innovations' it introduces then you really ought to scratch yourself behind the ear whether or not you should just listen to the bloody fans for once.

@Kochambra I’m shocked I love the game too, considering how awful Sticker Star was. Although Super Paper Mario is still my fave shockingly so I guess I’m weird.

It'd be neat if they could innovate with their enemy selection. For example the cruise ship has a very similar selection of enemies as the jungle/swamp levels in the past 2 PM games.

I'm not even suggesting new enemies, put in some enemies from Galaxy or Odyssey for example.

I had a feeling this game would be more of the same stuff people didn't ask for. I'm glad I didn't spend any money on it.

Nintendo should do paper mario fans a favor and just get rid of Tanabe. It's obvious how out of touch they actually are with the franchise.

@Dr_Lugae

You forgot to tag me, but I found your post anyways, lol. Most of the time when I see someone praising Origami King over the originals, I question whether they've even played them, but you seem to really know your stuff, so I appreciate that. I definitely prefer how the original games handle the animations, they just seem more fluid to me even if they don't have as many. It has a unique charm about it that indie games like Bug Fables and Scrap Story replicate very well, which I think shows the kind of influence it's had since so many developers aspire to copy it.

It may not be perfect, but as you said, that may have been a tradeoff for the more varied cast of characters the old games had; for me, that's a tradeoff I'll gladly take. I also think some of it may come down to hardware limitations and saving on memory, and if we had newer Paper Mario games in that same old style, the animations may have gotten better over time. Thousand-Year Door was a huge technical leap from the N64 game for example. I doubt we're gonna meet eye-to-eye on our feelings towards Paper Mario, but I'm glad we were able to have a civil discussion about it, so thanks for that. More people need to remember that discussing Paper Mario isn't the same as discussing politics, haha.

@Kirbyfan

If you don't mind me offering a few words of advice, I think today's society has become too obsessed with placing people into arbitrary "communities" instead of thinking about ourselves as individuals with unique interests and hobbies. We would all be missing out on a great deal in life if we let stigmas hold us back. I really enjoy the old Paper Mario games, but I've never really viewed myself as a part of the greater "Paper Mario community."

Whether it's a religious group, a political party, or a fanbase, you're always going to have both good and bad people who adhere to it. It doesn't mean you have to compromise your interests for fear of fitting into a certain box. So if you're genuinely curious about Paper Mario, I say go for it, and don't let the attitudes of other gamers hold you back. Every other person who loves Thousand-Year Door could be a huge jerk, but that's not gonna stop me from loving the game! Because they didn't make the game--a passionate group of developers at Nintendo did, and nothing is going to take those fond memories away from me. Hope this helps!

@OptometristLime But is it total malarkey, poppycock, and shenanigans?

"innovative and unique" gameplay."

What if the battles were on a roulette wheel...
What if the battles mostly just used a hammer...
What if the battles used stickers that cost money and the money was earned by fighting battles with stickers...
What if we just made a classic Mario game but paper...

Just make a real rpg instead of locking in your next gimmick of What if mario fought battles with music notes or whatever.

I preferred Paper Mario when the paper aspect of the world was an aesthetic and not the philosophy that governs its creation. But given Mr. Tanabe's interviews this is likely what we'll have for now.

Because, reasonably, you're going to eventually hit a wall when you run out of paper gimmicks and there are no more office supplies to turn into characters. I'd be interested to see what kind of Paper Mario you try to make at that point.

@ballistic90

"there's a big difference between innovation and change for change's sake."

This should be pinned to his wall. And to Miyamoto's shirt, just to be safe

Welp, paper mario is dead to me now. Next Paper Mario announcement will be met with little to no interest from me.

For me color splash was sticker star done right! I would pick up a port on switch on day one. As for origami king I've been having a blast with that game im at the end now getting ready for the final boss. An hd remaster of the first 3 paper marios on switch would be a dream!

I gave the latest one a chance. I played it all the way through. My boys and I had some good laughs. The last 4 hours absolutely killed it for me. Randomized boss battle on top of the already frustrating and almost-intolerable battle system, weird game show that sucks all the fun out of the game...it was just one bad choice after another. Officially my least favorite paper Mario of all.

@Wargoose we are way more. Did you see the sales for this game? A total flop. Dont be a fanboy darling, nobody likes fanboys.

Thankfully I now have 2 RPGs that have fill me with joy. The Bravely series that has a new game coming this year, and the Ys series, which its 9th game is coming in 2021 to Nintendo Switch (don't know if it's on other versions. Still will buy it for Switch).

That being said I wish Nintendo put other people in charge of Mario Story (PM's japanese name) instead Tanabe because according to this interview, he is only listening to Miyamoto's vision without thinking in the consumer. Or at the very least divide the franchise and let either Monolith or even a Square Enix team to be directing the Story series game, while Tanabe can continue the Paper version.

I didn't mention the FE team (I mean the ones who were in the first two/three games) because they may not want to be involved in the franchise after how restricted it has become. Heck, even Fuji Baiashi (Zelda BotW director) will do a better job since he is not afraid of Miyamoto, like he has done in past games (check some YouTube videos about Fuji Baiashi if you don't know what I mean).

@Not_Soos I understand and respect you. I was not intending to box together a “paper Mario community.” I was intending to say that reviews seem very mixed and that I was happy I didn’t pick any of the games. In hindsight, the word “community” was the wrong word. “Garnered an interest in the franchise” would have been more accurate. Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.

But you are 100% correct. Even the most toxic communities have niches of kind people and generally mellow communities have their vocal complainers.

@Big_Nook Trust me I won't. Sadly the same cannot be said about Tanabe, which seems like he is unable to said no to him, or even able to find a good medium point between his vision and the costumers preferences.

@Not_Soos I've about run dry on synonyms, lol.

It's definitely a tough ride being a Nintendo fan... it feels like any franchise that I invest in beyond a casual playthrough, usually leads to heartbreak. Eventually it becomes clear that Nintendo often takes a precarious, almost haphazard approach to "innovation" in a given series. Just like that skateboard kid who always looks for edge in some quiet situation... yeah guy sure change it up with your big world ideas. Dunno. Hopefully we'll see a return to form, a guy can dream.

I somewhat agree from what Kensuke Tanabe is saying. We do need new creative ideas. However, putting new ideas doesn't always work. If you put something that doesn't work. Most games could work. While some can turn out to be bad. I'm open to new ideas. It needs to work for the video game. TOGK to me just doesn't work. It felt to bland and wasn't all that exciting. PM64 and TTYD games worked. Because you kept it as an RPG. SPM sort of worked but it kept the same concept. From the two previous games. This doesn't work and I know we need new ideas. Sorry Nintendo but I sort of disagree with this.

@Kirbyfan

No worries, I just wanted to make sure you weren't opting out because of how you perceived the fanbase, which can be an easy thing to do. Even if I'm not in love with games like Undertale, Minecraft, or Fortnite, for example, they definitely have their merits and I'm glad I at least got over the stigmas about the people who play them and give them a fair shot. I can at least appreciate them for what they are, but I almost never gave them a chance for reasons that had little to do with the developers. I wasn't offended or anything by your comment, but as someone who adores the first three Paper Mario games, I just didn't want you to miss out!

If you're speaking purely about Origami King, though, that's ultimately your call. I certainly haven't been impressed with what I've seen and decided to pass on buying the game. Can't say I blame you if you follow suit. I would definitely start with the older ones if you haven't played the series before and have the right console(s) to do so. They're almost unanimously loved--particularly the first two.

Obviously didn’t read all 120+ comments, but the ones I did were just shameless ragging on TOK— it was a great game. My favorite on switch from this year for sure!! It’s hard to know where the games are going each iteration, but if they make more as fun as TOK then I’m in

@Blooper987 Nothing personal, my calm-tempered and right-minded friend, but [where Oragami King is considered] get used to disappointment.

"We not opposted to the fans opinions, but we're not going to listen anyway"

@LordGeovanni Exactly. In short he says.. i want not to much time spended in RPG elements.. the cost will be cut this way and only a few people are needed for this project and no spending more time by adding the RPG elements.. lets go cheapest way possible and ask the same amount money. Fans will buy it anyway. Wrong! The reason why we liked Paper Mario was due the RPG elements. Even for people who are not a fan of Mario but is a fan of a RPG will actually take a look and might buy it. Congratulations you just lost some true RPG fans. And your Paper Mario was only released like once a generation. It's indeed a lot to asked. They all are getting cheaper and cheaper. Don't buy this game guys. It shows that they can get away with it. We all know the T and they went easy and cheaper way. Period

'He is not opposed to fans opinions'

Maybe something's got lost in translation because you can't stop people having opinions. I guess he doesn't mind reading different opinions.

I enjoy the game's hilarious dialogue and mechanics.

Probably they should make a player's guide for the game to pass every part of the game,

Paper Mario is obviously not an RPG series at least anymore, so why should it become one? It already did the RPG thing in a superb way in the first two entries.

@Not_Soos Whoops, I must have deleted the @ when rewrote my 1st sentence before I posted.

It's fine to prefer one animation approach or the other. from my perspective I'm quite happy with the new style and I even really like the different camera angles they use. While not really being fussed about OCs.

But I'd agree even if the end result is a disagreement there's definitely room for reasonable discussion, I'd really like to see more people show respect for even the games they don't like.

I enjoyed Origami King. Very good game.
I enjoyed Thousand Year Door. Very good game.

I had a think about which I preferred, but I stopped, because they're very different and aren't comparable. It's like comparing Tetris with Super Mario Land.

Just bring back the heavy story influence man.

And it turns out Miyamoto had next to no influence over Colour Splash and Origami King’s development.

Still, PM is such a mediocre series, wish they’d just drop it and make better games from other/better series. Waste of time and talent imo.

hearing this just makes me fear for paper marios future. it just makes sequels feel like a gamble in terms of quality and refinement.

games like mario kart and smash bros are AMAZING cause they have chances to polish up and perfect their gameplay and formula. imagine how horrifying it'd be if tanabe's philosophy applied to games like that

@Fulgor_Astral Was it a flop? I thought it was the fastest selling Paper Mario game ever?

Has there been further information that the sales stopped?

This sounds a lot like "being innovative is too hard, so we would rather make games as bare bones as possible with paper puns and mindless gameplay to cover up any sort of unique creativity of characters and story telling, and only include gimmicks that don't require much thought process like moving some circles to line up enemies."

Aka an excuse to not be innovative.

Please innovate less with francbises that are well-established. Start a new franchise if you want to COMPLETELY change the gameplay of a series

@Nemesis666 I know, Kawade was still the director in Super before he left the series. He has his own flavor of creativity, when you go from the original trilogy and start playing the ones from Sticker Star onwards, and I played a lot of Sticker Star, you can feel something is missing. And a few years ago I found out why.

I was so excited when I heard that the game was being made. I love the Paper Mario franchise. But I didnt love this game. I beat the story, but at around half way it became more of a chore, I just wanted to get it over with so i could uninstall it from my switch. It took away aspects I loved about the others. And get replaced it with a Navi like character, no sidekicks, a battle system that worked against the game and nearly made me break my controller with how frustrating the boss battles were due to the tile system. Now I'm hoping that the series returns to form with a battle system like the first or second game, adding back the companions like Koopas, boos, goombas, etc. So for now..... Until that happens. I'll stick with playing Paper Mario on my N64. I really wanted to love Origami King.... But I hated nearly every moment of it. And I never want to play it again.

Meanwhile, I'm still pissed we don't see what we saw where this all really began: Legend of the Seven Stars. A strong blend of the familiar, yet that iteration of the world Mario lives in feels so different, to the good, than any the Paper or M&L series does. You had a strong blend of the familiar (Bowser, Peach, Toads, the weapons and power ups), but with blends of completely new places, people, and even races. Mallow, Geno, the shark and frog people. A castle sized sentient sword who is also a nexus between dimensions. Those all seem they shouldn't mesh but they did. First two Paper games were great, and Mario & Luigi never fails to make me giggle. But none of them ever seem to build a world. That's what I miss, and would like to see again. As is, they all feel like deja vu with a palette swap thrown in to try to feel new.

Well, it's been a long time since we've seen the classic Paper Mario formula, right? 16 years, to be exact.
Here's a good idea, why not make a remake of The Thousand-Year Door with extra content, like AlphaDream did with Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga? They added a new mode with a new gameplay mechanic, called Bower's Minions.

Here’s one: Experience points and level progression give the game purpose and meaning to battles. Please add these in the next Paper Mario game. As much as people like the story (I certainly do), people want to enjoy battles and feeling like the gameplay truly matters.

Well hold on now. I get that people are upset that the game isn't a carbon copy of TTYD. But having replayed TTYD and, now bug fables (which uses the same combat system, leveling system, etc as paper Mario) I can attest to the fact that the gameplay can get repetative.

Try and tell me how battles that consist of just 'hold the stick back' or 'jump' don't get boring after a while. Imagine if they had made a 3rd game with the same mechanics, I think people would start calling Nintendo out for being TOO safe and sticking too close to the source material.

Atleast in origami king it's more engaging in the battles when you tried. I'd they remain useful to the end as well. I found my self running low on confetti plenty of times, even near the end, and a quick battle fixes that.

I don't remember a game or 'rpg' (if people want to call it that) making me want to seek out low level battles at the end of the game ..I usually avoid them.

I'm not saying the game is perfect...and the secret ending (100%ing the game) is not worth it. But if wager that this game belongs sitting on the top along side TTYD 64, and super. It definitely does not belong with the other two.

(Also they characterized generic characters more than they characterized the partners in any of the games)

@Blooper987 he's been testing the waters ever since the second paper Mario and everyone has been screaming that they want a return to the original style. At this point it's not trying new things, it's just blatantly ignoring people who love your game and pay your bills.

@Wargoose I have to disagree with your statement about the age of the players. Paper Mario has always had a dedicated fanbase so when they see YouTubers actually enjoying the game a reviews being good, that's a large amount of older fans flooding in to play it. Source: /v/ was dominated with threads about the new Paper Mario game for weeks.

What an a**hole. The last couple releases, color splash and this newest release have been super disappointing for both old and new fans. It's taking a beloved series, and repeatedly butchering it to the dismay of literally everyone. I don't understand it at all. Paper mario 64 was so special, it left a soft spot in our hearts and we hoped that it wouldn't be the end of that feeling. TTYD was also special but even it didn't live up to that. But it still satiated the fans. These new additions have strayed away from the originals as possible. Sure, paper mario 64 was a slow paced game compared to the new ones. But every second was special and added so much to the story. Why can't they do that again?

@TROGDORR THANK U. Now i don't have to say this 😁

@Inc except tetris & super mario land aren't the same series and don't share a title. That seems bad if someone likes a series... They lose a fan like me who won't buy it & gain a new one, sure, but they could make a paper mario game that was more like paper mario & a new series w all this experimentation & everyone would win, you'd think.

@LordGeovanni that’s completely missing the point, innovation doesn’t mean a new powerup, it means changing a formula for a newer audience

@Tuney
To Tanabe, innovation is doing anything and everything he wants whenever he wants. Even if that makes a worse game, because he thought of it and therefore it must be the most wonderful thing in the world.
There are a whole lot of people that want to find some sort of sense out of Tanabe. There's only one possible reason for him to be so arrogant as to suggest that he reads all of the fans request and then completely discards them because he feels he's better than every single fan out there. The guy is a prick. That's the big surprise.

Demoralizing a man and calling him a prick for changing your favorite children’s game? And I thought my life was sad

@LordGeovanni not to mention making baseless claims and calling tanabe a narcissist just for changing game mechanics, and the fact that you said he made the game terrible just for changing it, god you need some self reflection

@Tuney
And this is why I understand your claims, your views, your thoughts... at the end of the day? don't matter to me.

Tenabe has been in charge of the series for half of its entire life. He was brought in during the third game. The fourth game was the absolute worst game in the entire series. The first game he was solely in charge of. Then we find out he apparently is "shackled" by Miyamoto constantly looking over shoulder, preventing him from doing his work, outright refusing to let him do the job he was ordered to do. So many years later, we finally realize that was another of his excuses. He forces innovation for innovation sake.

He doesn't care if the fans are begging him to use RPG mechanics, HE and only HE knows best. We asked him for an audience, for a decade now. What is his response? Instead of the audience from TTYD, we have to build our audience ourselves finding Toads all over the game. That wouldn't be the problem. The problem is this audience literally does NOTHING unless you bribe them. It isn't an integrated mechanic of battles, it is a glorified help me button.

We also asked for simple RPG mechanics to remain with the game. Instead, we had a game like Sticker Star that trim down almost every RPG mechanic possible. And even with him improving to Color Splash, he stripped out something as simple as informing us how much HP the enemy had. The man is an intolerable menace that has drastically destroyed this game series. You have people digging through this wreckage finding something that they're enjoying, but sadly they have not had the opportunity to fully embrace the original games in that point. And this is obvious, the new fans fixate on the absolute best parts of these games - the story telling and interactive humor. These are not new concepts, these are actually the last major hold offs from the original series. Tanabe just hasn't screwed that up yet. Oh wait. He screwed that up too. That was why sticker star was so poor. Luckily he found some shred of dignity in going down and letting the story team get back to their jobs for Color Splash.

I understand that people can have differing opinions. I understand that people don't have to have my opinion. I also understand how to embrace a world created by video game developers, and enjoyed by fans. He has done nothing of that, constantly instead making his own little fiefdom. And his words show all of these as ironclad fact.

@LordGeovanni so you actually believe that tanabe is a narcissist who only does what he want just because he didn’t do the exact thing you wanted? So entitled and *****, i’m done arguing with you, you clearly are far too immature and entitled to have a civil argument with yo

@Tuney
This is why I hate dealing with people trying to "debate". You attempt to make yourself seem like a civilized individual, but kick and scream and throw your mushy peas on the floor when it appears as if you can't "win" a conversation.

Never in my comments did I directly reference Tanabe being a narcissist. I would have no way of honestly knowing that, seeing as how I don't know him in his everyday life. I can however, using the statements he has made publicly, comment on his direct capabilities of being in charge of a game series.

In addition to that, I am not asking for my exact perspective to be followed. I am asking for him to consider the request from the fans. If that is too hard for him to do, maybe he shouldn't be a game director. I understand that might be difficult for you to understand, but most people don't work in a company that loves them flat-out tell fans that they don't care about listening to them. People like this or what causes companies like EA and Ubisoft to do whatever they want.

Additionally, please stop making yourself look like a petulant child trying to curse at me because you don't like my opinion or stance.

“He’s s prick” “he feels he’s better than every fan out there” “ “he only knows he knows best” what’s that about you never claiming he’s a a narcissist? Also i cursed once

@Tuney
First of all thank you for replying to me like a normal person. Replying to somebody enables them to get messages about pending comments so I know to come back and reply to you.

Second, him being a prick does not mean I'm calling him a narcissist. Somebody feeling that they're smarter than a fan of a series does not inheritly make them a narcissist either, it just makes them arrogant. and the fact that you cursed at all is insulting regardless if it was only once or more than once.

@LordGeovanni you insulted a man you don’t even know, claimed he was a prick who only cared about what he thinks (despite the fact that he works with other people who all brainstorm ideas) called him arrogant All for changing a children’s video game you now don’t like, and you get mad at me For insulting you?

@Tuney
Alright, I am not certain who ruined your cheerios or whatever. I do not know why you seem to act as if I am insulting your uncle. But I can't post everything I know about Tanabe in a single comment on NL, it simply would be too long. It isn't like I just decided that Nintendo had a supervillain as an employee for the fun of it. Tanabe has been an issue at Nintendo for over a decade.

If you are honestly interested in my views over Tanabe, I have made a Google Document detailing everything I know over the years about Tanabe, specifically about Paper Mario. Please feel free to read it here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1erhe3Yex2PfxZTK_n3bEjtcg2yohSq0A4L8jNuAfaf8/edit?usp=sharing

When you go into nit-pick detail to try discrediting my opinions or stated facts, try to negate my opinions based on me not "even know[ing]" him, and calling him arrogant for disregarding fan opinion time and time again, for WELL OVER A DECADE NOW, that is where I honestly feel you must have some invested interest in his personal views or worth to Nintendo. You decided to CURSE at someone disagreeing with you all because I didn't share your views on this arrogant prick. Seeing the overwhelming history of how he has drawn and quartered this series, how exactly are you able to support this?

@LordGeovanni because you cannot defend someone unless they were your uncle or something right? But it doesn’t matter anyways because again, let’s look at the objective facts. A guy directs a children’s video game about paper, he changes the battle style for different games, then you called him an arrogant prick, someone you don’t even know, because he “ruined” a video game for toddlers because it wasn’t the same toddler’s game you played. Also are you that much of a prude that you get swayed by one curse then immediately follow it up by insulting a guy you don’t even know because he changed your little kid’s game about little paper people fighting paper monsters?

@Tuney
You seem to do a whole lot of defending one person you don't know by insulting and attacking another person you don't know. Seeing as how you did not comment whatsoever on the Google doc I linked, I am now of the impression that you have completely ignored every last logical point I've brought up.

I should go through your comment line by line to explain just how horrible you are being in this discussion...

You most certainly can defend somebody outside of them being your uncle, but that normally takes a little bit more logic into account and little bit less emotional appeal.
I already gave objective facts in my Google document.
I called Tanabe an arrogant prick because he is an arrogant prick. This very article proves that, deliberately saying that there is no fan whatsoever that is capable of coming up with ideas that he would even bother to spend time on considering. Such ignorance of others ideas is arrogance. He's a prick by flaunting said arrogance.
As this guy has single-handedly been dismantling one-game series that I've enjoyed for a significant part of my life, that doesn't exactly endear me to him.
As you seem to consider me a "prude" for merely utilizing disgusting vocabulary such as curse words only for their original intentions, shock factor or being particularly vulgur, I doubt you have any substantial reason to actually curse at other people. As such that is nothing more than a direct insult to me as a person.
As Tanabe is considered a professional in game design and publishing, I would hold him to a higher level of expertise in those said fields. If Tanabe is unable to produce satisfactory results, and willfully ignores any attempts to explain to him why he is getting unsavory results, he deserves being called out on his hard-headedness.

Not one point of this comment that you made has value. You are blustering and blubbering whatever words you can to try and seek a foothold in this discussion. The sad state of Paper Mario is already apparent, Tanabe has critically failed the Paper Mario series, and indeed other series he has also become invested in. You need not look any farther than my first comment to see the fans agreeing on this. How else would I have over 100 different people on NintendoLife agreeing that my comment is something that they approve of?

@LordGeovanni get a backbone! People curse all the time. Also also i defended someone I don’t even know because you were insulting him, it’s just rude honestly. And don’t use me insulting you as an argument, you are insulting a man, claiming he doesn’t deserve the job and that he should get fired, basically saying that he’s a narcissist and not even backing up that claim, all because he changed a game in a way you don’t like, and i’m the ***** for saying a no-no word ? I mean he said it himself he changed the system for innovations’s sake, and innovation doesn’t mean a new gimmick and two new add on’s to the battle system, that’s called enhancement not innovation, innovation is about reinventing a formula, creating something new either out of nothing or out of something, and it’s not you who decides whether that’s innovation or not, if anything it’s hypocritical for you to claim he’s an arrogant prick who only likes his ideas when you’re the one claiming that your weird idea of innovation is the only true form. And if you don’t like the new battle system, so what? Move on, try other games, if you’re this desperate for an rpg then play something else, play the old games, hell you can even complain on ign but good heavens don’t directly attack and defame the developers and ask for them to be fired that’s way too far.

And what part of me saying that I have not claimed him a narcissist is unable for you to understand? That requires a much more personal level of interaction than anyone can have with merely a name and some work performance detailed in mere text. I have called him Arrogant, called him a Prick. I have DETAILED WHY. You conveniently ignore every time I mention why in some attempt to merely wish away the facts.

Something else you seem to misplace? Understanding the discussion we are having here. Either we are discussing and debating, or we are arguing. One involves logic and fact, while the last requires more mudslinging and targeted attacks at the other. You have consistently targeted me for insult and harassment this entire time and it really shows how poorly you can debate.

You seem to distort reality around you. Innovation is not merely a drastic upheaval, it is planned and plotted attempt at reinvigorating a situation. Specifically a situation that has shown poor results, either through deterioration or by performance. The trad. RPG is still effective, otherwise Bug Fable would not NEARLY be as popular as it is. Tanabe's insistence at upending the tea table with every new game is EXACTLY poor performance. Maybe we can innovate Paper Mario by getting rid of this Rubbish Producer who sees this series as his own fiefdom. A stance I have held this entire thread. Let's be honest here, innovation is supposed to spark revolution. Not in the fans, in the creation and quality of a game or series. Tanabe "innovated" Paper Mario and made Sticker Star. Fans HATED it. So he failed. And he "innovated" again. Color Splash. Fans HATED it. So he failed.. again. He had to Innovate a THIRD TIME IN A ROW. That isn't innovation, that is desperation. He is so far out of alignment at this point he should CTRL+Z all the changes and restart with what he knows made a good Paper Mario game. Which, sadly for him, predates his involvement in the series.

For some braying voice online to consider me hypocritical, bah. Where has my "innovation" even been stated here? I have called for a reversion to the series. To undo the damage he has done. There is not a SHRED of "innovation" in such a thought.

It is not common for someone to merely allow something they enjoy to get destroyed. My voice here is merely a whisper on the wind. You know what? Those stack up. Tanabe is showing through these constant interviews that he is stressing more and more, changing more and more, for nonsensical reasons. He is showing that he honestly does not have care for the fan's requests, that he is quick to blame others, that he still believes his own hype. He is a failure as a Producer. His work ethic shows it, his comments shows it, his ARROGANCE shows it. As someone who enjoys Paper Mario, or at least the Paper Mario that I grew up with, I do not stay silent. As a person who understands and respects the quality of a Nintendo product, I will not stay silent. As a person seeking to make my own games, I need to seek out what flaws I could have myself... And I have an EXCELLENT TEMPLATE for what to avoid with Tanabe. I will NOT stay silent when he is a problem. Especially when I know the majority of fans are desperate for something as simple as EXP IN AN RPG. Tanabe has a lot to answer for, it isn't I demanding. It is We. And We are many, many upset fans getting more and more irritated over and over with these false promises and misdirection.