Video: Digital Foundry Explores The Potential Of AI Upscaling Tech For A Theoretical Switch 'Pro'

I've already scene it and I'm glad they did what they thought might happen using existing tech instead of just pure speculation like some Youtubers.

DLSS and Variable Rate Shading (VRS) (something DF doesn't cover in this instance) are the way to go for the next Hybrid platform.

I have said this before and I will say this again: I would much rather play a game rendered at a lower resolution if it means being able to have richer in-game details. DLSS may be "fake" 4K, 1080p, etc., but it doesn't look it!

VRS would take it a step further by reducing shading quality in non-focal point areas or while in motion to take even more burden off the GPU. The reduction in image quality goes entirely unnoticed (unless you took a screenshot and analyzed every aspect of the scene and compared it to a non-VRS solution) and you get a boost in framerate.

Watched on my phone at 360p and didnt see any change at all.

My fault, I guess

I am content with 60 fps and 1080 p
And honestly 720 p is fine for handheld

Incremental upgrades are dumb. Leave the Pro circus to Sony and Microsoft please.

As much as I love the switch it is seriously far behind visually. Barely an upgrade from wiiu.

@wren literally EVERY Nintendo handheld got major hardware upgrade in the middle of its lifecycle. GB > GBC (color screen), GBA > GBA SP (rechargeable battery, backlight), DS > DSi (performance, cameras, OS), 3DS > New 3DS (performance, face tracking, OS). So... It safe to say that Nintendo "invented" mid-lifecycle uprgades.

@sandman89 but a very competent one overall.

They mean the new Switch which will be out in 2022.

if it's not gonna be a big jump/upgrade I really don't care. I'm not gonna shell out for a slight difference in graphics, it's just not worth the $. If this "next Switch" is a huge step up and they do some really rad stuff then I'll be all ears.

Honestly though, I'm completely happy with what I have and I think there's a lot more life in the current Switch than people are realizing.

UHD is easy to fake as it is exactly 4x the resolution of HD. Likewise, a lot of UHD Blu-rays are upscales of 2K masters (due to the VFX heavy nature of most modern blockbusters), but may otherwise benefit from HDR and less artefacting than a standard Blu-ray (and similarly, YouTube videos can also benefit from being rendered at a higher tier than the video's native resolution considering how heavily it compresses the uploaded files).

I could swear that the street ads I had seen for the last Call of Duty boasted UHD resolution, but the fine print said that it was upscaled. I just had a quick look online and I couldn't find anyone calling them out on it. This will be less of a problem in the next generation of consoles, but I have a hard time believing that a lot of blockbuster games can run at UHD, even with the Pro revisions of current gen hardware, when the base models were still having trouble rendering a lot of games consistently at 1080p.

I hate the idea of images being riddled with "upscaling" tools as the usual result is a loss of detail due to the involved manipulation of the original image, particularly when using techniques such as sharpening, DNR, and blurring.

I was only discussing with one of my old schools mates - very old as I am 41 lol - who worked at GAME and also at Team 17 when it first started back in Ossett, West Yorks and he was saying exactly this! It would certainly make sense, cut down products costs and be just enough to keep porting at current levels. A win win surely. I am still of the opinion that Nintendo , as they have said, won’t bring out a new SKU this year but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if they tested a new model later this year for sometime in 2021.

All of this Digital Foundry stuff is about ridiculous tech obsession. They are always pushing for newer tech and trying to make a big deal out of minor differences. This kind of analysts was kind of interesting back when graphics tech was advancing at an incredible rate, but these days it just feels a bit excessive and unnecessary.

DF makes some cool content.

The video was worth it to hear the guy say, "Vwelfenschtein" @ 10:45 And the Jonathan Frakes montage "its fiction", "fiction", "fiction".

I'm article like #3.

As a pro advocate all I've been asking for is 1080p 60fps docked and 720p 60fps portable from first party Nintendo games. People who hate the idea of a pro model make it seem like pro supporters are asking for native 4k

@wren Nintendo did it first (With handhelds). Every major iteration (and there were several per generation) for their handhelds came with greater hardware to some extent. Best example: The Gameboy Color. Also the New 3ds. And the DSi. The Gameboy SP. The expansion pak for the 64 kinda. The GameCube had expansions as well.

@sixrings 4k isn't necessary for a 6-8 inch handheld. It's not really necessary at all, but full HD at even a stable 30 would be a significant improvement.

@JayJ There is room for the mobile stuff to grow. There is a plateau in full fat hardware right now, though. This is exactly the kind of video that they should do because it highlights the significant moves being made with mobile stuff that has happened in the last 5 years.

@Alerif @Xansies Your argument is Switch VS Switch Lite. They're talking about using a different processor. I look at games made on PS4 and XBONE and ask myself are most of these possible without sacrificing game play on previous generation hardware. The answer is yes.

@wren Wait, no. They aren't possible Games for the base PS4 and Xbox One have always hardly ran on those consoles. Nothing was at a stable franerate or resolution until the upgrades. That's why there were upgrades. Some people care if games run well.

Also, again, every major handheld iteration did have a new processor with noticible performance gains. The lite also has a new iteration on the X1, but that's another thing

@Xansies Using whatever new graphical effect then saying hey COD14 can't be done on previous generation hardware is disingenuous and silly.

@wren I don't know the numbers for DSi, but New 3DS has twice as much power as original 3DS. I think DSi is something like that comparing to original/lite DS.

@Silly_G A high number of X games are 4K which is 2160p, Another significant number have resolution scaling from 1800p to 2160p depending on scene intensity.

Pro on the other hand seems to top out at 1800p with alot of titles at 1440p, and some at 2160p.

But either way, both pro consoles are pushing well beyond native 1080p in all circumstances.

@wren Graphics aren't the only thing that require Bette hardware, there's CPU intensive tasks like rendering more than 3 things on screen and AI and math. Think about why cities skylines runs terribly on the switch. That's why. Pretty pictures isn't the only reason you need good hardware, if you want things to happen in a game, there needs to be a thing to do all the math magic that makes that happen. The new COD may be able to run, but it can't with all the particle effects and which are also part of the game. You chose a case that it really is purely a matter of graphics. Let's look at something else

Take Wolfenstein 2 or doom. Those engines are incredibly well optimized and even then they run at lower than low settings at super low resolutions at unstable framerates. Same with witcher 3. These games run, but you know what is always said about these switch ports? That it is impressive that they work. Not that theyvwork well, not that they are good for being on lesser hardware, that it is an accomplishment that they work at all even if it's substandard.

And that's why it's just not correct to say anything can run on anything exactly without any loss of quality. It's the same reason you don't see Assassin's Creed Odyssey on a playstation 1. Hardware limitations are real and there's a difference between a game running and it running well.

Also, let's reiterate this, the Sims 4 isn't on the switch. It's not a graphical thing, the CPU can't handle it. Graphics aren't the only thing going on here

@JayJ DSSLR makes a big difference at no performance penalty. It would be a big plus for switch gamers who like to pretend it's not a portable.

Nvidia's DLSS gives you a softer image and takes away detail. There is no way around it.

Why I did not bother with a 2060 or 2070 and went with a card that can run RT games without having to use DLSS.

DLSS is just so Nvidia can claim their $375 cards can do RayTracing.

Over-sharpened mess.

@Xansies My main point, which I guess I failed to make, was they should focus on games. Hardware should always be a distant second. Had they stuck with the WiiU for awhile longer I would have lived with it. Joining the death spiral that Sony and Microsoft are on isn't where I want to be. Might as well do nothing but PC game at that point.

@wren Well, Microsoft is effectively out of the console game. They are alledgely making multiple SKUs of the Xbox that will be iterated on every couple years like the surface lineup. Since every Xbox game is also a Windows game, essentially what you're buying is a cheaper gaming PC. Say there is a Xbox series x at 500 that can run games at 4k 60 with raytracing and Xbox series C at 300 bucks that's about half as good as the SX, a gaming PC that would do either of those things is still double the price. It's a lot like Amazon and the Kindle, TV, and fire. They are charging less for the thing to get people in the ecosystem.

Sony is the only one really doing things the way it's always been done. Nintendo is technically only in the handheld console game now.

I think it's a good thing to have iterations because I do care about the quality of games I play. If a game can be more stable I want that and there is a market for that. It's not a death spiral, they are selling something for a higher premium to a smaller sub-audiance that wants it.

Lol gotta keep the clickbait rolling for this! Remember how the Switch Pro was guaranteed to be coming this year and then this year. Good keep these phone style upgrades out of gaming, we don’t need pro nonsense but you know we’ll get PS5 Pro and Xbone Xbox Edition X within 3 years because ZOMG 8K and ray tracing.

@SalvorHardin There absolutely will be the Better iterstions in 3 years and maybe even worse, cheaper, versions of at least the Xbox probably before that. What's wrong with having options? That's how laptops, tvs, phones, and toasters work for a reason. If there's a better thing, some people want the better thing. You don't have to buy it

Other than an arbitrary cutoff date, I don't know why anyone buys new consoles anymore. We are forced to purchase new hardware. Are these new innovative games being made? They are not. This entire industry is a great shame in 2020.

@wren Nintendo has been doing incremental upgrades since the Gameboy. I think the only portable system that didn't get one was the GBA and even that got a form factor upgrade

Even if they released one today, graphics alone will not convince me. There will have to be better games. And today, i have no complaints about switch’s library.

I find it so strange how people are so against a midlife upgrade. If you have an existing switch it will not affect you unless Nintendo thinks they can get some ports that they otherwise could not (and you would never get anyway).

What this video highlighted was something especially interesting. Essentially, a very fancy filter that would allow an upgraded switch to make all existing games run better without any development involvement. Existing switch owners don't worry about being left behind and this newer switch would provide something aking to an upgraded game for "nothing". It could be an even better strategy than Sony and MS have pursued.

My only reason that I would want more is that I would like to see 60FPS options for games that want to support this newer HW too (vs only 30FPS).

Whatever! Just give me 60 fps 1080P and I'll be happy as a clam!

I'm not worried about 4K. 4K just doesn't look much better than 1080.

What I want from a potential Switch Pro is 1080 in handheld, with a nicer screen that ditches the wasted space around the edges. And native wireless headphone support and a second SD card slot. And a longer lasting battery. The Pro would be a premium model device and I would be willing to pay that premium if it hit all those notes.

Even in stores where they set up a 1080p and 4K TV next to each other, with video designed to make the most of 4K, it only looks marginally better. It's not at all worth the time of day.

@Nehalem people don't want other people to have nice things when they can't afford the same things.

@Heavyarms55 so you don't think there's a big difference between 1080p tv and a 4k tv yet you must think there's a big difference between a 720p 6inch screen and a 1080p one. I don't think the math makes sense on that one unless the tv's you are looking at are in the 32 inch range.

@sixrings I'm not concerned with the numbers, I'm concerned with the side by side comparison and the improvement from 720 to 1080 is much more noticeable and relevant to my eyes than going from 1080 to 4K.

Perhaps those of you with natural perfect vision get more out of 4K, but even with my glasses supposedly fixing my vision, I don't see much improvement. We've gotten diminishing returns from each "jump". It was enormous the difference from old "SD" TVs to 720, and then significant going further to 1080. But the jump from 1080 to 4K, which the numbers suggest should have been an mind blowing improvement... is only slightly nicer. Very slightly.

I might be totally wrong, but i'm sure I remember Nintendo saying that they had no plans to release another switch model about this time last year. But then they released the Switch Lite later in the year. Can anyone else remember anything like that? If that was correct, then a Switch Pro this year might still be on the cards, Nintendo may just be trying to play down the rumours and leaks.

@graysoncharles That's all numbers, and that's perfectly fair. But what I'm talking about is actual use. And like I said before, even in set ups designed to show off the improvement, I do not see anywhere near the improvement the numbers imply. Even in major stores where they set up the two side by side with video specifically made to emphasize the detail!

But I do still see it, switching from 720 to 1080 on my phone or my tablet. Even on my 60 inch 4K TV, when I play something at 4K that is supposed to be in 4K, it only looks very slightly nicer.

As I said to the other guy, it could be that my eyes just can't see that level of detail even with my glasses.

@C-Chakra No you're right. They always deny any plans to release a new device right up until they announce that device, and that's a good plan. Many other companies have been burned by announcing new products early and then it tanks sales on their current devices.

@Heavyarms55 well I do have 20/20 vision. When I went to my new DR at 40 she was mad at me for making her give me a eye test(i need one for driving large vehicles). I didn't know why and then she adamantly said "clearly you've had laser eye surgery." Nope I'm just blessed. No cavities, no broken bones (despite playing college sports) no allergies and 20/20 vision. But I'm pretty sure most people can tell the difference between 4k and 1080p even if it's just because of OLED/QLED and HDR. The new screens are brighter, have less blur, and more colours.

@wren Xbox One X is only 4.5 times as powerful as the old one. It's hardly a "Pro console". It were first step on Next-Gen.

As mentioned by others, Nintendo basically invented mid cycle upgrades. Not Sony and Microsoft.

I can't tell the difference between any of the side-by-side comparisons. Also, additional pixels is not a selling point for me when it comes to the hypothetical, oft-rumored and yet far off speculative iteration of the Switch.

You people and your "Pro" obsession. We've only ever seen this concept (a significantly beefed up version selling at a premium price beside a base model) once in the entire history of videogames, and we think it's a permanent trend! Stop using the word. As we saw with the Switch upgrade last year, it was, umm, an upgrade! Minor changes to replace the existing model, and sold at the same price (in fact, the old model often gets discounted to clear the stock). That's typically the approach with consoles. With this latest "rumour", it will be another upgrade, or a new model - a Switch 2. I can't see that until 2022 as the current Switch is only 3 years old and the Lite not even 6 months old.

I don’t notice a difference, guess resolution doesn’t matter more than frame rate

People really need to stop giving those bias attention. I've never seen something that's supposed to be so unbiased so fervently support a company, and be completely transparent about it.

In my opinion, they're doing NOTHING for gaming but fueling the wars, and not in a good way.

@Xansies that sums it up great. Most people want a “pro”model outside of this site.. The Nintendo sites are the only ones saying switch is ok and doesn’t need any improvements.. just wait until the next Xbox/ps5, and new PC hardware comes.. it will be a bad day to only own a switch to game. Ports will be gone

@HalBailman Gameboy color. Literally 4 times as powerful as the of Gameboy and in color.

@Heavyarms55 I'd like 1080p in docked to be honest. And a stable 30fps. The switch is pretty hit and miss on just that. Before 4k, just being a stable 1080 would be a significant upgrade

@Ventilator I feel you, but only 4 times? Let's say you make 6 dollars and I say I'll give you for times that, now you have 24 dollars. You went from being able to eat off a dollar menu to eating at a cheap restaurant. Exponents are always a significant improvement.

@Heavyarms55 I agree. I really can't notice a difference between 1080p and 4k for the franerate hit that goes with it. Id just want the switch to hit 1080p on all games docked and be stable at 30 fps. Not even all first party titles can do that botw (and even three houses. It's easier to name the few that do). That's the point where jaggies for the most part disappear.

@HardcoreDaBoss That's the main reason a upgraded switch would be great. There probably would only be a couple exclusives to it from Nintendo, but publishers could port basically all of the PS4 and Xbox one library and some select Ps5 and SX games with less than low settings like how it is now with Wolfenstein and Witcher.

@C-Chakra I think they had a plan to release Botw 2 and a new switch this year, bit then production issues like a flu epidemic messed things up so btow are push back a year. Now, they said a new console won't come out this year. If one is coming out next year, then it probably will be announced this year. Probably before the new consoles

@Xansies It wasn't a "Pro" concept. It was a new model, replacing the old one. Next thing we'll say is the Gameboy Advance was a Gameboy Color Pro. It just shows how we are misusing the word "Pro".

They said the Switch Pro has no improvement in performance. So why is that a new console?

The upgrade will be "something else", not performance. It's most likely AI/Machine learning to create new gameplay mechanics (not just upscaling). Even Apple haven't figure out how to make full use of AI/ML, they only used it for face recognition and improving the camera. In Nintendo's hands, AI/ML will blossomed, revealing it's full potential in games. Nvidia is currently the leader in AI/ML hardware, which is probably why Nintendo chose them to supply the chips for their console. Nintendo had planned this roadmap years ago.

@Xansies 4.5 times is alot considering it's same gen console.
Not only that, but Xbox One X frequently have same price as Switch in local stores. That for a console like 10-15 times more powerful than Switch.

PS4 Pro had a way weaker upgrade.

@Ventilator only 4.5x 😂😂😂 that's actually pretty significant, when a GPU is 2x the power of another I take notice. There is no purpose trying to downplay upgrades to make the Switch look closer in terms of specs to current gen consoles. The Switch is a great handheld.

On Xbox One X some games went from 720/900p on standard Xbox One to 4K with much higher detail all while including massive leaps in texture quality, shadow quality etc and extended draw distances and this was with a minor optimisation.

@HardcoreDaBoss a lot of actual Switch owners won't care. I know I won't. I'll have one of those consoles too like I already do.

@NoTinderLife Yes. I have no problem playing on Xbox One X, and Switch the next second.
After all, Switch have power between last gen and current gen.
Loads of games on Switch looks great even by current gen standards.
Bayonetta 3 and Metroid Prime 4 is 2 games that will push Switch even more.

Also. Switch is still the most powerful handheld in the world when Next-Gen consoles launches too.
As you know, Switch can run tons of AAA third party games in portable too.
Several games on Switch looks better than over half of the games released for PS4 and Xbox One.
Switch is fine as it is and doesen't need a upgrade anytime soon.

Remind me why we think we're getting a pro? I mean yes Nintendo does midlife updates but only small stuff. They've literally never done anything close to this.

They already improved battery life and that makes us equal to one of the GBA upgrades already.