Video: Let's Talk About Byleth In Smash Bros. And The Fourth House In Fire Emblem: Three Houses

I think it was unexpected and unwanted. But in the end turn out to be a cool character i like his moves and stage.

wait so u dont already have 4 articles about Byleth?

Such a great time to be a Fire Emblem fan. We have this already massive game that is going to get even bigger. I am so stoked! (Plus smash representation!! Not to mention #FE!!)

Look, it's a great game with so many good characters. Personally I was so pleased to get K.Rool and Banjo-Kazooie. And most of us are going to get all the characters regardless if we're being honest.

But is yet another Fire Emblem character both unnecessary and disappointing? Yes it is. Does it ruin the game? No. Is Fire Emblem more important than the Zelda series? Clearly not.

Are we allowed to be disappointed?
Yes, we are.

I don't think that fans would resent the quantity of Fire Emblem characters if they had chosen from some of the more interesting characters rather than giving us yet another generic avatar. The inclusion of Robin was bad enough, but Corrin as well?

Claude or Sothis would have been far better choices and stood out from the rest of the pack.

But instead we get the generic Toms, Dicks, and Harrys of the Fire Emblem franchise.

And colour me surprised when they inevitably add yet another evolved starter from the Pokémon series to the next fighter pass. Why couldn't we have something a little more left-field? Obstagoon, Bewear, Snorlax (with Gigantamax final smash), Appletun etc.

Not 100% thrilled with Byleth, but what I love about smash is when there is a character I didnt want, its always fun to play as them anyways due to how masterfully crafted they are. Personally, I cant wait to piss people off with that Up B

I guess you can say that the Smash fandom's hope for not another Fire Emblem character were

SMASHED

@Franklin
Glad to finally see someone take a mature stance on the subject for once instead of going "BROS MAD" or "FE SUCKS" like both sides do. Although I will disagree in saying that it's disappointing across the board. For a lot of fans, myself included, Three Houses is an amazing game and seeing it represented in Smash is awesome because this game is probably what drew a lot of new people into the series even more so than Awakening did when it came out.

And for me on a personal level it's amazing. I'm happy to have a DLC character from a game that I've actually played (and beaten multiple times lol). Because I've been really disappointed myself with the last four characters. Never heard of Persona until Joker was announced and I had never played Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, or Fatal Fury/King of Fighters. But I have played and I'm deeply in love with Three Houses so it's perfect for me. I just hope people who dislike their inclusion will respect those of us who are excited considering I (like many) have accepted other characters like Joker or Hero who we don't really like. Not to mention there's six more on the way so nobody should really be that angry.

Yeah we all know it was a big week for the FE fans, they are the only ones happy about the new Smash Bros character after all.

Well, I don't play smash Bros, so I'm indifferent to the new character. The new story for FETH sounds exciting as hell!

@Silly_G
The problem with Claude is that making a moveset based solely on a bow/arrow would be rather difficult I'd imagine because that's his main weapon. Plus fans would be unhappy that only one of the three Lords got chosen. As for Sothis she's a spirit bound to her own plane so she's not really suited for combat.

As for the Avatar thing, I mean, Awakening is what revived the series from near death and the introduction of the Avatar is something that everyone loved. It makes sense that they stuck with it for future entries, that being Fates and Three Houses which are also very popular, and he/she is able to represent all three Lords with the lance, axe, and bow and the recolors. It was the best of both worlds. Aside from that, Joker is an Avatar from his own game and there are plenty of other silent characters like ROB, Pac-Man, Game & Watch, and Mega Man that people love despite having zero personality. Not to mention Link, Hero, Ice Climbers, King Dedede and plenty of other characters only communicate with grunts and screams and yet people still play them. So the idea that a silent character/character of few words is unwanted isn't exactly true. I just hope everyone came come to enjoy Byleth and if they don't like them then they should just not use them. But that's just me.

The game is now called "Emblem Smash Knights"

@JayJ I'm not and l'm a fan of FE

@JR150 actually millions of people always says their first FE game is Awakening that made them a fan. Letting you know, nothing bad.

@Mr_Persona
Which only further proves my point as to why the Avatar has stuck around for the last few games. They may try something different for the next one, but it's worked here. It's the same reason why I imagine Persona protagonists have been (mostly) silent too. Popular trope for players as a self-insert.

The right thing to do is: Tolerate.

Tolerate in this case means: I disliked/hated Byleth's inclusion, I'm sick of Fire Emblem characters, or I'm sick of swordfighters even though he also has other weapons, or I just think this reveal was anti-climactic and they should have saved it for another time, but I'm not going to throw a tantrum, hate the Fire Emblem fans, send death threats to Sakurai, hope for the Fire Emblem series to end, destroy my Switch or my copy of Smash or boycott the DLC, I'll just accept Byleth anyway, move on and wait for the next DLC.

@JR150 I wished they could have added Persona 3 avatar in the game and still keep Ren. Old good memories from that game. But you know no one wouldn't know who he is, so yeah.

@victordamazio
Another mature take. I salute you for being honest without bashing anybody. The internet needs more people like you. I'm in the exact same boat regarding Persona. I'm sick of it being the only game Atlus wants to push and how they aren't doing any of their IPs any justice. Along with the fact that I'm annoyed at how we have Joker in Smash, Joker costume in Tokyo Mirage Sessions, and Persona 5 Warriors which acts as a canon sequel yet we don't actually get Persona 5. All I have is a Switch so I won't have any context or understanding and there might be spoilers. Plus I don't even like Warriors games. If it was an RPG I'd be interested but it's not my kinda game. Meanwhile we haven't heard a peep about Shin Megami Tensei V--the game Switch owners actually get--so overall Persona is just a big fat annoyance to me.

But! I'm happy for those who have Joker in Smash Bros. because they like the game/character. I just won't ever use him and won't throw shade at players who do. I just wish Byleth would be treated the same way because I actually am excited for him/her but everyone hates us for it. Oh well, doesn't bother me.

@victordamazio ik too much of sword fighters

But Hero is the best one because he is over powerful.

I get that people feel like there're too many FE characters. I've just never understood why everyone has a problem with swords.

...Aegislash for Smash!

@Aerona
Which is funny because (counting Mii Swordfighter, Byleth, and echo fighters) there's only 17 total characters in this game with a sword. With a roster of 88 (counting echo fighters and all three Pokemon Trainer Pokemon separately), doing the math that means 19% or less than 1/5 the roster uses swords.

Meanwhile 30+ characters in this game fight with nothing in their hands/use their physical bodies as their primary attack method. Sooo yeah I'm not really sure where the vitriol comes from either. If people stopped and did some math they'd see it isn't so bad. But I guess math is overrated, right?

@Aerona that's just how it is and same goes with the strong buff boys which l don't have a problem with.

No point getting too upset over the 80th of 86 characters.

Frankly, the character looks like a ton of fun to play, even if it's not the franchise many people wanted. Sakurai is allowed to put his personal favourites in considering the guy practically gives up his life for the game.

Pass 2 will have some surprises, though none of them will make everyone happy.

While I do feel like FE has a heavy enough representation in smash, what disappoints me is that when Joker was announced, they made the statement that it set the bar for us to get some unexpected characters. Three of the first four characters sound like playground rumors that your uncle who works for Nintendo told you about. But the fifth being just another first party character is, in my opinion, a let down. I was hoping for something crazy and way out of left field. It’s like I was led to believe that was getting that crazy awesome new toy for Christmas and instead I just got more socks.

Someone mentioned something on another site about Fire Emblem and their increasingly popularity and expansive array of character choices. That ommitting Byleth now is basically writing off the pacing FE has, and I can kinda see that.

But imagine, Smash 4 wanted to end with a bang and people got Corrin. Then the same people thought only third parties in this list ends with... A FE character. That sodium is unhealthy at those levels, but I get it.

@JR150 - Also, let's not forget the avatar characters aren't entirely avatars if you don't have much control over them to begin with. As much as you get to name Byleth, and choose some things, his character traits were already there, his actions are made with the same gusto and response as anything else he does. He's pretty much his own character than avatar.

@Lockjaw2814
True but getting mad about socks when you've been given a car, a new TV, and a college fund is rather silly, no?

It's fine to be disappointed but seething rage is something else entirely. I for one felt nothing for Joker because I didn't even know who he was and as for the others I haven't touched their games. Three Houses on the other hand is the only one I've played out of the DLCs and it's an amazing game. To me, the previous 4 were socks and Byleth is my most wanted gift.

In the end, everyone has different tastes and feelings. I do admit, maybe it would've been better to have Byleth in place of Terry so we could end on Terry but alas, nothing we can do about that now. In the end, I just hope everyone can either enjoy the character or accept it and move on if they dislike it.

@Paraka
Thing is, Smash Ultimate has not ended yet. Sure may have been better to swap Byelth and Terry's spots but there's nothing we can do about it now. There's 6 more DLCs on the way so there's nothing to really get mad over I say.

And yes that is true. Byleth's silence and other traits are explained quite in detail with...the situations regarding how they were born. So yeah Byleth kinda stands on their own as more than just a cookie-cutter stand-in as some people claim. But of course, the average person doesn't both to do basic googling and it's easier to rage I suppose...

@JR150 - Just an observation, it's not unusual to see this as a "finale" even though there is more coming. And Byleth being the repeat offender that many had disdain over for Corrin pulling... I can kinda see what some people are pissed.

Don't get me wrong, I shall be on record that this choice is ridiculous cause I want more Nintendo franchises to be seen. But, I can appreciate that Byleth is at least "not another FE fighter" in a variety of ways, so there is that. But I do find humor in the sense of trolling Byleth represents too. Plus, he can easily return down the road, third parties aren't as likely.

Also, expecting a Monster Hunter echo fighter off Byleth, now.

@Lockjaw2814 But socks are an underrated Christmas gift. 😉

Honestly none of the DLC characters yet have been anyone I was excited about, until now. I was really excited to see Byleth join!

@Paraka
Well if you think about it, the silver lining here is that nobody can say that all the FE characters are the same anymore. Byleth adds variety to the cast. Think about it.

Marth and his semi-clones are quick, elegant assassin units. They will punish you hard if you make a mistake.

Ike is the slow, but resistant armor unit. He packs a punch but requires proper placement and timing to make use of properly.

Robin is the mage unit equipped with several different types of magic. He rewards exploitation of weaknesses and strategy.

Corrin is the manakete/monster unit. A scary, boss-like entity that transforms at will to overwhelm the player.

Byleth is the franchise staple: the weapon triangle. Able to think on his/her feet and adapt to any situation with a variety of tools at their disposal.

And thus, all Fire Emblem characters now represent every single enemy/boss type you face on average in the games.

Compare this to Star Fox's representation. Fox, Falco, and Wolf have the exact same moves across the board except the next is slower and stronger than the last. No real variety here. They're not bad but a completely unique Star Fox character is badly needed if you ask me.

In the end, Byleth shakes up the Fire Emblem cast and addresses the exact complaints many have had over the years by making use of a lance, axe, and a bow. If people stopped to think about it this way, they'd find something very cool.

@JR150 - The variety isn't lost on me, but most of them have similar actions, such as the counter, that felt like FE kit staples. So Byleth going against the grain isn't going unnoticed. I can appreciate that at least.

I get why he is there, I don't have to like it. Hopefully Nintendo can cool their heels in the next six on the FE characters. But I do have bets a Pokémon is there.

But seeing how huge FE has gotten, and what another said on some other site, it's going to be like this for Smash and FE.

@Paraka
Considering 3H is the newest game I wouldn't worry, there's nothing else to draw from.

Though Robin doesn't have a counter. XD

And plenty of non-FE characters have counters as well, including Peach, Daisy(Toad), Little Mac, Shulk, Lucario, Mewtwo, King K Rool, Incineroar, Bayonetta, Palutena, and Joker. That's more than all the FE characters with counters. So it's not like FE is to blame there.

@JR150 - I am not saying it's exclusive, just a staple. Up until now, everyone FE had a counter. Sakurai even mentions this was a conscious decision to make.

Also, don't be too sure about what else to draw from, Anna is still missing, and that chick is universal to the franchise. She can still technically happen.

But this pass has been pretty lackluster for me, guess it's probably why FE didn't elicit a more emotional response from me. Only ones I got excited about was Terry and P. Plant. And judging from my wishlist, looks to keep that pace.

@JR150
Student: "why do we even need maths, where are we ever gonna use it in the real world?"
Teacher: "How else are we gonna calculate the ratio of smash bros characters?"

@Paraka
True. But not Robin.

@Pirlo_ze_sniper
Lol. I'm just saying swordfighters are nowhere near as intrusive as people claim. 80% of the roster doesn't use one.

I would have more respect for smash if the fandom behind it wasn't so toxic. People should start realizing that Sakurai is going to start trolling his "fans" with "worse" or "wasted" characters if they don't back off. Literally one of the biggest rosters in a fighting game and each addition is never "good" enough. Haters should be grateful they have so many options. Why complain when you only main a small handful of them anyway? Wtf?

@codyf
Because it's easier to complain and bully others than attempt to have any respect for the work that goes into the game.

And yet I will bet your bottom dollar that almost all of these incessant whiners will go ahead and use Byleth anyways, invalidating all of their previous complaints and thus the cycle will continue. XD

@JR150 well people who are behind smash aren't going to live forever. I don't care for smash but someone with a mind like saukai is not replaceable. Or what if he just straight retires? They're taking his work for granted sure.

@codyf
Yeah. Though I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last Smash Bros. game altogether. There's simply no way they can top having Persona, Final Fantasy, Banjo-Kazooie, Splatoon, Metal Gear Solid, Street Fighter, Pokemon, and all these gaming franchises in one place. Not to mention the Mii costumes that have added in Undertale with Sans, Cuphead, Altair from Assassin's Creed, and the Rabbids.

But who cares about all that, right? Let's complain about one character we don't like and ignore what this game represents.

"Fire emblem has too much representation"
I don't think this is entirely true. Characters are not the only form of representation in this game and what is chosen to represent a series is just as important. For example the items list has tons of Zelda items because Zelda is known for its dungeon items. And Pokémon had the like all and lots of characters because it's about catching them all.
Yes characters are the most important form of representation. But 3 of the fire emblem characters were or are now echoes. And these echoes are a great way to represent the series as it's characters are the most important thing in it's respective series. Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth are all completely unique of Marth and his clones. I think a lot of the arguments thrown at FE representation are unfair. Yes another Kirby or Zelda character would be nice but who do you pick? Beyond what we have it gets a bit bland and obscure (due to few recurring characters) for those series in all honesty. While Zant or Magalor might be cool FE having a new set of characters every time almost plays in its favour for a new rep just like Pokémon does.

I'm not sure how well structured this point is. However long story short the FE representation is how it is for a reason and is most likely not a blasphemous over representation due to echo fighters making up a third of their playables anyway. Also due to the everyone is here trope, they can't cut the number of Fe characters so if a new one got popular (Byleth) they couldn't have cut anyone in favour anyways.

@Aerona It's not too difficult to understand. Fire Emblem has a pretty diverse array of weapons. Yet every FE fighter from the series has a sword. Robin also uses some magic and Byleth now gets lance, bow and axe added to that, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the Fire Emblem smashers are over-represented with swords. It gets tiring. If one had a sword, one had an axe, one had a spear, one was purely magic, etc, things would not have been received quite as badly.

I'm still happy for the Fire Emblem fans but I still wish they handled all this a little better.

@JR150 I feel like you're winning about the whiners more than the whiners are whining.

@JR150 All the characters in Three Houses seem to be able to use all weapons and be any class if trained up a certain way. In my playthrough, Claude was mostly a sword and bow user. I'd guess choosing Byleth for Smash was a case of no house bias.

@JR150 "Because it's easier to complain and bully others than attempt to have any respect for the work that goes into the game."
Ironic — because from their point of view, they have respect for the integrity of the roster (so that the DLC doesn't become all advertisements / bottom of the barrel) so that people respect Smash and the work put into it for being an actual celebration of gaming history and people continue playing it.
At least Byleth has the weapon triangle, which is better franchise representation than I can say for Dark Pit's lack of unique KI:U weapons or Pac-Man's summoning moveset, etc.

@JR150 it’s an eastern trope that needs to go away.

Even Astral Chain did it when they freaking had voice actors for then non-controlled twin.

@Silly_G We don’t need another Pokémon ever.

I absolutely love the inclusion of Byleth. Only point I have is that they should have made him female as the primary character. Since the DLC packs are lacking any female characters.

Well, Byleth's announcement helped me choose between Astral Chain and Fire Emblem: Three Houses.

@Silly_G I disagree. I mean from a mechanics point of view Robin and Corrin are much more interesting than, say, Marth and Roy or you know Pikachu or fox. They're not particularly great in the game, but they're moves and gimmicks are fun and creative. That's what I don't get about the fire emblem hate. I mean they have two echos, but really ignoring that there's six of them, that much less than Mario and Pokemon. I don't see how you can complain about Fe and not complain about pokemon. I'm fine with Byleth, three houses sold buckets it makes sense that it would have a rep, but there's also obviously going to be a Pokemon gen 8 rep sometime this year, maybe the bears from the armor expansion. That would be cool to have a stance character, but also, do we need more pokemon?

@sanderev I still wish there was a female erdrick skin.

@JR150 Hell, now 50% of the fe characters don't really use them as their primary thing. Robin, Corrin, and byleth own swords, but that's not their primary weapon at all. Hell, it's a good argument that byleth doesn't have a sword, only a thing called a sword. It's a whip. There's not a single sword move they have (they only have three) that actually uses the sword like a sword. It's all ripped from the Belmonts.

@Yosher Here's the thing, can we call the creators sword as it's represented in smash a sword? One, it's only used in 5 moves so it's hardly accurate to call byleth a sword user, but more importantly a lot of the sword moves are ripped from the Belmonts. It's a whip that's called a sword. The uptilt and dash attacks are the only things that use it as a sword, the rest it's functionally a whip.

@Lockjaw2814 Well, there's some that are expected. I always expected a three houses and gen 8 Pokemon rep. I was surprised there wasn't a Pokemon rep this time, but there for sure will be one this year probably to line up with the dlc. I'm expecting the dlc Kung Fu bears. Obviously if it's anyone it should be them.

@JR150 Fun fact, Awakening didn't introduce the my avatar thing, fe 12 did the game before. Technically, kinda, the gba game blazing blade did. You played as a strategist with zero impact really on the plot. That's where it really started.

I think the biggest issue is people are just tired of seeing Fire Emblem characters. Like great for the people who apparently only play Nintendo games, but the string of third party characters was massively exciting and interesting because we were seeing characters we normally wouldn't have expected for Smash being included. Who predicted Joker or Terry? Who else gave up on Banjo? Everyone knew Byleth had a shot, most people also just hoped it wouldn't happen because it's a boring choice. Especially considering they're asking for money for him.

Plus the fact that they immediately announced pretty lack luster dlc, especially since we're still waiting for the those who slither dlc found in the game's code. It really made Byleth feel less like a character and more like a marketing push. Least three of the four dlcs have brand new games associated with them. I'd feel same way if it was a pokemon despite adoring pokemon over FE. It's less the series itself and more how they're handling it.

Imagine characters like Spyro. Or Crash. Or Dante. Or hell even Doom Guy. We've never see those series represented before and never would have expected them to ever come in the first place. And the final dlc of the pack is supposed to be the most exciting and surprising. Instead, while Byleth looks fine as a character, he now embodies people's disappointment in how lame the reveal was. Even Sakurai sounded uneasy about it, as if he knew it wasn't what people were hoping for.

And sure there's more DLC coming, but over the course of two more years because Byleth took the last spot. This disappointment is gonna sit with a lot of people for a while and may even affect their confidence with buying the next dlc pass. The fact the characters were chosen but not announced and probably won't be announced till December tells me that there are characters they don't want revealed yet... Like... Anoooother fire emblem title coming 2021?

Dunkey's video is pretty spot on how sarcastically I view this whole deal. But it's also understandable because FE is a huge series now, like one of their top franchises, thanks to the waifus in Heroes. Just maybe should have been a free dlc character over taking the last slot, or swapped with Banjo's reveal.

@Silly_G If they put Bewear playable in Smash, I'll be asking for a turn-off characters option.

I’m certainly not disappointed. I love Fire Emblem. But I also just love new characters! I think it’s great to get any. To complain over addition of any character is childish. Removal? Maybe legitimate, but addition is just more goodness.
Would I have rather had someone else? I don’t know, because I don’t know how they’ll play compared to this one. My most recent preference would be Judd from Splatoon. Cats are sorely underepresented as a species in smash. There are dogs, and foxes and birds and gorillas and chimpanzees. But I don’t know if there are any felines in any form. Is there?
#freejudd

Redundant addition. What is the point?

I love Fire Emblem, but three or four characters (in Smash) is enough to represent a whole franchise and to draw in new people to the series.

Eight characters is overkill, especially when there's still not a single fighter from Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Sin and Punishment, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, ARMS, Rhythm Heaven, Doshin, Project Zero, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Endless Ocean, Another Code, Hotel Dusk, Professor Layton, Joy Mech Fight, StarTropics, 1080°, Wave Race, Excitebike, Dillon's Rolling Western, Pullblox, etc.

It would be nice for some of the solo fighters to get a team partner as well: F-ZERO, Xenoblade, Pikmin, and Punch-Out!! come to mind instantly.

"A big week for Fire Emblem fans"
More like "A big week for Fire Emblem fans alone".
The sooner the first name of Fighters Pass 2 is revealed, the better it's going to be for Nintendo's chances to actually sell it. I knew the first Fighters Pass was a gamble, but I bought it out of good faith (plus, hey, it's still more content for the game). Ending it with a first-party, openly promotional character from a game that came out months ago, as a representative for a series with already plenty of fighters that's been put in due to Sakurai's favoritism after four third-party characters... was a truly sour note to end Fighters Pass 1 on.
If I recall correctly, the first Fighters Pass was made available on Ultimate's launch day (please correct me on this if I'm wrong). Which means Joker was known when FP1 was purchaseable.
Nintendo needs to do the same this time around. It's a make-or-break scenario - DLC fighter #6 (or 7 if you count Piranha Plant) is an ambitious third-party rep, FP2 gets just as much money as the first; DLC fighter #6 ends up being a safe Nintendo character, hype starts dying down and so will the sales.

@MjekuMati
Incineroar: "Am I a joke to you?"

Haha I guess so!

Reggie said they would be new to Smash.

Reggie trolled us one last time.

To be fair, Sakurai is a big fan of Fire Emblem and this may just be his last Smash Bros game, so let's let him have it. It takes decades of fighting game experience and study to be where he is. If he wants to use that opportunity to recreate Fire Emblem battles in Smash, so be it.

@AlexSora89 The first fighters pass was made available on November 1st 2018, shortly after the Smash Direct on that day so for a little over a month even Joker wasn't known to fighters pass purchasers. I'd guess the first character for fighters pass 2 will be revealed whenever Nintendo does a general Direct as Nintendo seems to like putting Smash in general Directs even if it's just announcements of announcements like last February.

As a huge FE fan, I too am a bit disappointed that the next Smash DLC is yet another Fire Emblem character. I've been critical of Sega for being short-sighted with their franchises but in all honesty, Nintendo can be just as bad about these. Of all the franchises that they could have chosen to pull a rep for, they choose the one where we already have a huge amount of characters to choose from.

With that said though, I think Byleth will be fun to play so I'm not really too bothered either way.

@Grumblevolcano
Thank you for correcting me then. Well, it's looking grim. Unless an ambitious third party rep is revealed with a gameplay-free teaser like Joker did at the VGA 2018, I think the initial sales of FP2 won't be as high as the first. Once we have the first name however, sales will pick up steam. (Heh heh... "sales"... "steam"...)
We bought the first pass out of good faith, and while Byleth is the only spanner in the works among the fighters, he/she is sadly enough to make players wary of blind purchases from now on.