Nintendo’s long-rumoured foray into virtual reality with Labo: VR Kit has set some heads spinning with dreams of high-end experiences featuring all manner of Nintendo franchises. Imagine Mario Kart VR on Switch! they say. What about Animal Crossing VR! Where’s Metroid Prime Trilogy VR-astered?! Okay, we made up that last one, but we’re sure the idea must be on a forum somewhere.
We’ve already taken a look at the pros and the cons of Nintendo’s upcoming toe-dip into the world of VR, and while the company wisely kept the announcement low-key – releasing a press release with very little fanfare – the lack of game footage or simulated screenshots gives enthusiastic fans a blank canvas on which to scrawl their imaginings based on the more advanced VR experiences available elsewhere.
It’s only natural to compare what we’ve seen to concepts we’re already familiar with, but unlike the initial Labo offerings, those ‘VR’ initials conjure up some serious expectations that risk being hopelessly dashed by the end product. Nintendo repeatedly said that Labo was aimed ‘at kids and kids at heart’, but that didn’t stop some of us being disappointed. It's right there in the press release title – 'shareable, simple VR gaming experiences' – but despite all the warning signs, it seems that once again people are setting themselves up for disappointment when Labo VR doesn’t measure up to expectations, ignoring what the cardboard oddity really is.
It's an introduction to VR for kids; a 'taster', plain and simple. If there was any doubt from the promo art and the stated intentions of the Labo product line, a video from a VR developer that we reported on just yesterday highlights the Goggles’ fixed (and relatively narrow) Inter Pupillary Distance, meaning it’s designed for smaller heads. That’s not to say that us ‘kids at heart’ can’t enjoy it (the cranially-gifted of us notwithstanding), but we aren't the target demographic; never have been, never will be.
All that said, there’s still plenty of scope for this kit to entertain, just so long as we consider its context and technical limitations. For one thing, the graphics and art design of the games will have to account for a mightily reduced resolution. That’s not to say Nintendo can’t work with restrictions – the company’s experience handling stereoscopic 3D at low resolutions on 3DS will be invaluable – but dividing the Switch’s 720p screen between two eyeballs means you’ll be going up close and personal with those pixels. The result needn’t be ‘ugly’, but any decent workaround will involve some creative artistic choices. Latency presents another significant hurdle that must be negotiated if this is to function well. Nintendo has form in tailoring software to work around hardware limitations, and we’d hope the company has learnt from the VR boom of the past few years, and from its own past mistakes.
We shouldn’t expect too much from controls, either. While the Joy-Con gyros are adequate for general rotation and aiming, they’re easily confused and require manual resets – something we’ve been used to since the Wii days with Skyward Sword. The lack of positional tracking means ‘look to aim’ mechanics are likely to be Labo VR’s meat-and-potatoes input; again, not a problem in itself, but it limits the potential number of gameplay applications.
We’d wager that neither our patience or the strapless cardboard of the Toy-Con itself is going to withstand prolonged periods pressed to our sweaty brows; anyone getting their hopes up for an immersive Mario Kart or Skyrim VR patch is asking for trouble – we should be thinking Wii Play rather than Wii Sports.
While everything until now may read like we’re sending Debbie Downer to the Labo VR launch party (on the contrary – we’re still convinced there’s loads of potential for delightful experiences), we’re just keen to keep our expectations in check. There’s arguably no better company in the industry to make this work with the kit’s inherent restrictions. With details still thin on the ground, it’s fascinating to speculate as to what the kits could have in store.
Looking at the revealed VR Toy-Con, their various forms (and the images surrounding them) give us some clues about what to expect. The Blaster is blindingly obvious, the missile on the promo poster indicating that – shock! – you’ll be shooting projectiles with it. The fish swimming around the boy brandishing the Camera suggest a little underwater photography is on the menu (we can imagine plunging into the ocean in a cage and gaining points by snapping the various forms of marine life). The planet and stars surrounding the kid with the Goggles indicate there’s a little stargazing on the horizon, too. So far, so predictable.
More interestingly, the Elephant Toy-Con is surrounded with lines from a coloured pencil, suggesting a little more creativity will be required than scanning the night sky for the Big Dipper. And in addition to permitting a close veterinary examination of a cardboard seagull’s cloaca, we speculate that the Bird Toy-Con may have you joining a flock of birds, perhaps flapping your wings (using those moving bits on the sides?) to gain height or stay in formation. The Wind Pedal comes bundled with the Bird in the Expansion Sets and presumably works in conjunction with it, although exactly how is anyone’s guess at this juncture.
So, what else might the Labo VR experience entail? Here are a few ideas we believe are workable given the limitations of the tech and Nintendo’s past experiments...
A Safari ‘Snap’-Type Game
Before we even noticed the fish swimming around in the photo and read about the “colourful in-game ocean” we’ll visit with the Camera, snapping pictures of animals seemed like an absolute no-brainer. Of course, Pokémon Snap immediately springs to mind, but although we’re certain Pokémon would get a lot of people buying the VR Kit, everyone and their Arcanine has been catching (and indeed ‘snapping’) great looking Pocket Monsters in Pokémon Go for a while, and we’re not certain a Labo-based Pokémon experience could meet fans’ expectations. The base gameplay loop of observing an environment and photographing things is a solid one, though, and we wouldn’t be surprised to see something along those lines – perhaps with an ornithological bent? (That’s birdwatching, people.)
Wii Play-Style Minigames
We mentioned Wii Play above, and the more we think about it, the more its breezy brand of minigame seems like a sensible fit for Labo VR. Imagine a Whack-a-Mole style affair (holding and aiming with one hand, swinging a Joy-Con in the other) or some kind of shielding or ‘deflection’ game (using, say, an umbrella to deflect projectiles into targets). Or why not some sort of Battleships variant involving looking through periscopes to target?
Wii Play (or Your First Step To Wii, as it was known in Japan) no doubt got a far wider audience than it otherwise might have as a Wii Remote pack-in (indeed, it’s the seventeenth best-selling game of all time), but we still recall having some fun with it. No, Find Mii, Fishing, Pose Mii and Billiards were hardly groundbreaking, but they were more engaging than we expected, perhaps due to our extremely low expectations. One game, in particular, that would seem to be a shoo-in for Labo VR…
A Shooting Range
Yes, yes, the Toy-Con Blaster is something of a giveaway. The PR blurb informs us we’ll “fend off an alien invasion” with it and we wouldn’t be surprised to see a VR interpretation of the Duck Hunt-style Wii Play Shooting Range game. Although we doubt Nintendo would use actual Duck Hunt, a lo-fi pixel aesthetic might be a good way to side-step some of the graphical issues we mentioned earlier. Nintendo is nothing if not adept at embracing and recycling ideas and franchises in different contexts. If Switch isn’t capable of rendering fully realised and detailed 3D environments (in VR), why not tap into that rich vein of nostalgia?
Once again, though, we’re looking at it from the perspective of a 30-something gamer with Nintendo nostalgia; we're not the target audience. Although the Blaster evokes memories of the Super Scope from the SNES days, we probably won’t be jumping on Yoshi’s back and firing at hordes of Koopa Troopas a la Yoshi’s Safari. Mind you, being forced to hold the console to our face at least ensures we’ll feel like Cyclops firing laser beams from our eyes (Cyclops the X-Man, that is, not the giants of Greek mythology).
Local Multiplayer Games
According to the press release, Nintendo’s lack of headstrap for the various Toy-Con is “to help encourage social gameplay”. Therefore, we imagine the ‘headset’ will be passed around between players, perhaps using audio to get everybody in the room involved. Maligned as 1-2 Switch might be for launching as a full-priced game rather than a pack-in title, it had some fun ideas that could be expanded upon with Labo VR.
Gameplay possibilities are multiplied when you get another Switch involved. We’ve seen some limited interactions between two consoles already in things like Toad’s Rec Room in Super Mario Party, but having two people able to share a VR space (albeit in a limited, non-positional way) opens up further opportunities. One player could ‘ping’ targets for their partner to shoot, for example. Tower defence, anyone?
While VR ‘ports’ or ‘patches’ for existing games seem to be extremely unlikely, there’s nothing to stop the developers of Keep Talking And Nobody Explodes from patching in a Labo VR option allowing the bomb diffuser to use the Labo Goggles as their team describes how to disarm the device. We doubt, however, that there’ll be much crossover with non-Labo software or IP. Of course, there’s one Nintendo series that manages to marry myriad simple ideas into a chaotic-yet-coherent whole…
A WarioWare-style Microgame Montage
The WarioWare microgame series is a perfect example of how very limited controls can produce compelling, quickfire gameplay that works fantastically in a social context. If there’s any existing series suited to Labo VR, surely it’s this one.
In reality, we doubt Nintendo would tie any of its existing characters to the VR concept, beyond a cheeky Easter Egg or two. The trademark pandemonium of the WarioWare games would have to be carefully balanced in VR to avoid any adverse effects, but Nintendo knows better than most the pitfalls of the platform from previous experience. We’d hope that any kinks have been ironed out over Labo’s long development (many of these VR Toy-Con were glimpsed in Labo’s initial reveal trailer), but let’s finally address the elephant in the room that isn’t a Toy-Con…
A Virtual Boy Collection
While the other ideas on this list seem relatively plausible, we admit that this last one is probably wishful thinking on our part. What kid these days has even heard of the Virtual Boy? While most Nintendo fans are familiar with the company’s ill-fated VR experiment from the mid-‘90s, not all have had the opportunity to actually play the thing. The fact that the system and its games simply aren’t very good does little to diminish its allure – the console wasn’t even released in Europe, giving it a 64DD-esque air of mystery.
Labo VR offers the perfect opportunity for Nintendo to provide a curated collection of the system’s library. Difficulties may arise due to a lack of control options, although the PR blurb mentions a ‘Screen Holder’ and a ‘Safety Cap’. We’ve yet to see any pics, but it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the former is a stand for the Goggles.
For many older gamers, simply having access to that infamous console’s library would be enough to warrant a purchase. Can you imagine the custom Virtual Boy Toy-Con being designed by fans across the globe at this very moment?
Those are just a few possible ways we think Labo VR might manifest. It brings to mind the short-lived Wii Street U channel which offered Google Streetview through the GamePad, or the 360° films of Wii U Panorama View giving you the chance to fly amongst a flock of geese, tour London on a double-decker bus or check out the cherry blossoms in Kyoto from the comfort of your sofa. We recall using up some idle Nintendo Points/Coins on them and they were diverting enough – nothing like the highly immersive experiences offered by high-end VR headsets from HTC or Oculus, but amusing little curios nonetheless.
In fact, speaking of curios that most gamers probably tried once and never bothered with again, Labo VR has us thinking of the 3DS Augmented Reality games. While for some that might be a more depressing comparison than even Wii Play, that is probably the level we should be setting our expectations. In and of themselves, we got a good hour or two of fun out of those cards with the fishing and archery games. We’d imagine Labo VR will have more longevity than that, but we doubt we’ll be sitting down for multiple hour sessions a year from now.
Perhaps we’re being overly pessimistic. Maybe we’ll be blown away by some incredible technical feat enabling Switch to overcome its technical shortcomings in the VR space, but we think it’s important to temper our enthusiasm with the realities of the hardware. Overall, short experiences must be the focus – the tech restrictions make anything else unrealistic.
Fortunately, that focus aligns with Nintendo’s mission statement to bring entertainment to everyone, and this basic approach to VR offers new social experiences rather than isolating gamers from each other private virtual worlds. We'll just have to keep reminding ourselves it's not for us.
Are we being too pessimistic about the technical shortcomings of Labo VR? Do you think Nintendo will surprise us with a more involved, in-depth experience to get our old, cold hearts beating faster? Let us know your thoughts.
Comments 108
I'm keeping my expectations fairly low, that way its harder to be disappointed
If it does turn out to be a decent product then it's a nice bonus
I’m pretty sure everyone’s expectations are super low for this.
LABO VR is exactly what I want VR by Nintendo to be: a hobby.
It’s nothing fancy. Just a nice building kit. Simple games. And tools to build stuff with.
But it’s just toys. Not the REVOLUTIONARY-AMAZING-NEXTGENTHINGAMABOB! Sony tries that. It isn’t really working.
I'm going to give the base version a go, but who know's how one dimensional the experience will be. Maybe it'll have real depth. Virtually impossible to say yet.
That will not be hard - unless they catch fire - can't be any more of a fiasco than last time 🙄
@brambalk Actually, Sony's not really trying that. PSVR is more like a demo or entry point to VR.
If you want proper VR right now, you have to do it on PC.
Hey, at worst Nintendo will have finally found a way to make the virtual boy seem like a solid idea..
The real question is, will Labo VR be as good as Cyber Zone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkzF56tGYSg
"but despite all the warning signs, it seems that once again people are setting themselves up for disappointment"
It seems like it's Nintendolife that's setting itself up for disappointment with all the articles on it. It'll be exactly what Nintendo say it's going to be, a basic VR experience for kids. Hence the low key announcement.
My expectations are as low as the Wii U sales.
i'm not expecting Labo to have Pokemon Snap 2 (as cool as that would be), or Virtual Boy games to support it.
the only thing im expect for it is the orginal games the comes with it, and support a few switch games. that's about it.
Gettin real tired of this cycle.
//LABO VR ARTICLE OUTLAY
10 SUGGEST HYPE
20 REIGN IN HYPE
GOTO 10
I have a PS VR, and I love it. I will not be buying a Labo VR for the Switch. I love my Switch very much, but I have no need for a VR experience that is not at the very least better than what I already have available with my PS VR.
Of course we shouldn't have high expectations.
It's literally cardboard strapped to your face.
Won't buy unless there's virtual boy eshop games. If not, no big deal.
@ilikeike
The lenses and the shell around them, as well as the Switch itself, literally aren't cardboard. And literally none of the LABO toys are attached to your face, but held to your eyes with your hands.
Just to get extra literal.
Besides, I think people's expectations around here are tied to the software and the general interactivity design, moreso than the technical quality of the VR experience.
I'm expecting it to be fun and different.
The other LABO kits provided this, and I feel I should expect no less from the VR set.
Labo VR is really just a testbed for Nintendo. I'm not getting it, but I'm totally in for when Nintendo drops a high quality headset in 5 years or so with games like Astro Bot. A full Mario game in VR would be a huge turning point for the franchise.
@ThanosReXXX This is not the article I was looking for. 😉
@Pod Quickly, get out of here while your completely rational expectations based on the product's press release are still intact!!
I might just play with my vehicle kit tonight.
People will still be disappointed when Labo VR isn't Metroid Prime 5 VR...
I can’t imagine any rational person having high expecations.
@Pod And I thought I was the literal one!
But yeah, my comment was intentionally hyperbolic. I know there's a lot more to it than first meets the eye, but at its core it's still a fairly simple product.
Personally I'm not expecting too much from it aside from some fun gimmicks, though on the hardware side of things I'm concerned about how the 720p resolution will look so close to the face. Hopefully the goggles/head gear help mitigate that.
@westman98 @WOLF13 This is Nintendolife, and this is the comment sections....Don't rule out anything.
@rjejr Why do you think that I haven't commented on here either?
Thanks ever so much for dragging me in, though...
Who has unreasonable expectations?
My expectations are low but still interested to try it out. It just might be alright. I like that fact you don’t need to buy the whole kit.
Expectations can’t be that high as Nintendo themselves have already said its going to be a simple family experience . Anyone who is expecting something like PS4 is on another planet!
From what I’ve seen on the the net, I’m pretty sure most peoples expectations for Labo VR are pretty mild-to-low, compared to what you’re making them to be NL.
The whole VR label is a setup for disappointment. Nintentdo's version is a screen to the face just like all the others.
@shaneoh It's amazing how a screen to your face is so life-changing then - if not now, then in the near future. It must almost be like the screen, wait a second... disappears as you put the headset on?! Magic.
So anyway, what's a gaming console but a piece of plastic and circuit boards? It's really doing a lot of favors by reducing things to such simple statements.
Ye I'm not expecting a Mario kart or breath of the wild VR anytime soon. As long as it has a few fairly decent games with it, than that's ok.
It’s Nintendo Labo. Why would you expect anything more than a rip off gimmick crap heap dragged out of the recycling bin and sold for 70 dollars by Nintendo.
@ThanosReXXX You know, with that attitude you aren't going to be getting a lot of heart votes young man. 😂
I'm not a Nintendo fan because I am blown away with their technology. I'm a Nintendo fan because I'm blown away with their imagination. (Kinda the opposite of Sony for me.)
@DartBuzzer
"It's amazing how a screen to your face is so life-changing then."
I suspect that the number of lives meaningfully impacted by this technology is quite low.
"It must almost be like the screen, wait a second... disappears as you put the headset on?!"
Screen is still there, it doesn't disappear.
"It's really doing a lot of favors by reducing things to such simple statements."
I think the bigger favour is touting tech as VR, when it really isn't.
@shaneoh The screen is still there physically, but your eyes do not see a screen. If you ever saw a screen in a VR headset after putting it on correctly, I can certifiably say that wasn't a VR headset. Having a separate screen with each eye and lenses to focus the image produces an effect that mimics real life, which is why it's biologically impossible to see a screen in VR, once it's adjusted and put on correctly.
"I think the bigger favour is touting tech as VR, when it really isn't."
It is. All known forms of valid descriptions of Virtual Reality dictate it as such. The term was coined by Jared Lanier who absolutely considers what we have as VR, and worked on VR headsets in the past.
If you can trick your subconscious into believing you are in a virtual world, which happens today, then it is VR - end of story.
I'm not so sure "unrealistic expectations" being saddled upon it was the problem LaboVR is facing on the internet......
@NEStalgia That made me chuckle
@GrailUK well said my sentiments exactly 👌🏻
@DartBuzzer
"which is why it's biologically impossible to see a screen in VR, once it's adjusted and put on correctly."
It's biologically very possible, because that's what's happening.
"The term was coined by Jared Lanier who absolutely considers what we have as VR, and worked on VR headsets in the past."
We've been over this, the concept was established before this dude. He would consider what we have as VR as he financially benefits from people perceiving it as such.
"If you can trick your subconscious into believing you are in a virtual world, which happens today, then it is VR - end of story."
If you're weak willed enough to be tricked so easily...
@shaneoh Have you actually used VR before, serious question?
Because you have a screen that physically exists, and sure the screen still physically exists when you put the headset on - but your brain is biologically unable to see a screen. It's there, but you can't see it. The screen is just a view into a virtual environment. No longer 2D, therefore no longer a screen.
"If you're weak willed enough to be tricked so easily..."
Many many people are tricked and can have presence induced, and that's at this incredibly early stage when things can only get exponentially more believable.
Its baffling that Pokemon Snap 2 never happened. My older brothers didnt even like pokemon but they loved that game.
They could do a version for each generation and make a buttload of money.
I see this being something between either one-eyed experience for some kits and a two-eyed for others. I can see the blaster being a one eyed rails shooter or stand in one place looking around like that 3ds flying mii game. The goggles could just give a vr world to look around trying to find objects or something. Just getting their toes wet in the vr world is all I see this being for Nintendo. I’m sure I’ll get $40 of fun out of it before it’s destroyed like with the vechile kit.
But someday I want a true Nintendo vr experience and I think that day is coming...
@DartBuzzer
"Have you actually used VR before, serious question?"
I've answered that question previously.
"biologically"
"Many many people are tricked and can have presence induced, and that's at this incredibly early stage when things can only get exponentially more believable."
Does this mean that LSD is VR? It can cause vivid hallucinations, and if seeing something that isn't really there is all it takes...
Duh? Labo VR is not in any form nintendo embracing VR gaming as the next thing. It's just a little side-venture, as much as Labo itself is. I would be genuinely surprised if we saw any support outside of what will be included in the box. The most feasible thing I could see happening MAYBE, is them allowing VR support for youtube or something.
If Nintendo actually wanted to do VR now, they would make an actual headset and really push it. This is probably the best we'll get with the switch. Because although it can kind of work with VR like we see here, it wasn't really made for that intention at all. Case in point, if it was, there would likely be motion controls in the system itself and not just the joy-con :0
@shaneoh Biologically, meaning the brain by nature cannot interpret a screen in a VR headset.
So, if you have tried it, why are you lying to yourself and others by saying it's a screen strapped to your face? Shall I start calling the Switch a piece of plastic?
Again, this isn't about seeing something that is there. It's about believing that something is there. Two different things. It's going to be very hard to induce presence outside of deaf people if you rely only on visuals. Visuals and audio is what enables presence to happen for many people that use VR.
And no, don't start with the whole "But you need smell, taste, touch!" The last one is important and will come in due time, but even without any of these, many people can induce presence. If all you did was increase the specs to human limits, and basically max out sight and sound (and no wires), you'd be inducing presence extremely often for everyone.
UK retailers will think twice before sticking this. They are still trying to shift the last load of labo toot at half price.
@ilikeike take 3ds, DON`T turn 3d on, move it close to your eyes and You will see
I very like the idea of semiVR - no straps around your head
@ilikeike
I'm straight up curious about how well Nintendo fights the limitations of their own product, as I've been discussing these issues for two years now around here at other sites, ever since that first concept-mock-up an artist posted of a Switch VR set.
The very first dev kit for Oculus had the exact same issues as Switch does. 720p panel that really doesn't update fast enough to be ideal for the purpose. And no room-scale tracking of hands or head.
My first impressions are that I'm impressed. Nintendo opted to entirely avoid strapping anything to your face, and to avoid giving people the impression that the controllers would act as replacements for their regular hands in the virtual world. They are the first I see to directly adress people's expectations for which limitations they will encounter while in the game, before they even start playing it. And I find that brilliant right at the outset.
Alright, that got lengthy, pardon me.
I seriously doubt it means we're gonna get Virtual Boy ports, but if I am wrong, I will be VERY happy. I played a lot of Wario Land at the demo station when I was a kid, never bought the system, and would love a legit way to play it again.
@WiltonRoots lol there is a lot of optimism here for sure.
As far as I can tell, everyone’s expectations are suitably low ... except NL’s. These articles do NL no favours. You talk about waving joy-cons around, yet you’ll need both hands to hold the Switch.
But I still think Labo VR will be a fun diversion , even with its low-res, crappy frame-rate, and poor tracking.
@NEStalgia "unrealistic expectations" being saddled upon it"
Maybe Nintendo should make a Labo Saddle. 😎
@rjejr What have i done.........
@NEStalgia In case you couldn't see it before I fixed the link. 😁
I don't understand why a capital Y won't work.
Oh don't worry about unrealistic expectations, I totally expect this to flop. Even the top of the line VR systems on the market are underwhelming. They are just a screen, on your face, with motion controls. Mildly more immersive than sitting in front of a TV with a controller in your hands, but that's it.
We know what Labo is. Wii Play or WarioWare have more depth. A kid who enjoys the building process will love it. Anyone looking for a quality gaming experience won't. Nobody is expecting this to be a serious gaming setup, right?
@DartBuzzer
"Biologically, meaning the brain by nature cannot interpret a screen in a VR headset."
Psychologically, mentally, either would have been a better fit for the process you are trying to describe.
"So, if you have tried it, why are you lying to yourself and others by saying it's a screen strapped to your face?"
The only one lying to themselves is you if you think that the technology being touted as VR is as revolutionary as you say it is
"It's about believing that something is there."
Strangely, that ten million dollars I believe should be in my account is never there when I try to spend it.
"Visuals and audio is what enables presence to happen for many people that use VR."
They can get those outside a screen to the face if that's all they need.
@shaneoh Considering that VR is a fundamental shift in games, entertainment, and media (and this is inarguable), yes it is revolutionary. While a lot of the pieces of the puzzle still need to be put into place for it to be useful outside entertainment, those are the aspects that will greatly affect our lives. If you don't think what this video shows is revolutionary (again, it's not here today, but it will be as time goes on) then you're out of your mind:
https://streamable.com/d01zf
Surely I don't need to convince you it's already revolutionary in gaming? Or are we going to pretend that games like Lone Echo / Echo VR are just the same thing as what we've been playing in the last 10-20 years?
"They can get those outside a screen to the face if that's all they need."
Sure, and yet it doesn't induce presence which makes all the difference. This is like saying "Why play video games? You can just get the same thing as Breath of the Wild, God of War, and Splatoon by playing tabletop D&D!" "Why play D&D with friends? You can just imagine it, and imagine friends too."
Sure, the same thing. Totally.
I'll obviously have the last laugh in the next 10+ years as people start to adopt VR at a large scale, and I'll look back knowing I knew it was going to change our lives in a big way.
@rjejr capitals don't work, because any and all embed or text manipulation commands must be written in lower case (well, at least: the traditional ones in between brackets).
By the way: what's up with the French dubbed video? Afraid to be censored?
At the same time, I'm wondering why I'm in here again, because the amount of dumb comments is already counting up to a stupefying number, and some people will just never get it, or Nintendo, for that matter. Sometimes it just makes me wonder what certain individuals are even doing on a Nintendo fan site and why they are hardly ever positive, or almost always surprised or insulting when other people are...
Labo VR sounds exciting, but the kind of thing you hope your best friend buys and invites you to play with him. That way you didn’t end up spending $80+tax on something that you got 1 hr of fun out of.
@PharoneTheGnome I feel like this article was made for you. It's not going to be PSVR. Read
VR is such a failure, so is labo!!
It is literally VR through cardboard, why would someone have high expectations for this? Though Nintendo have done some amazing things in the past.
Dude, I expect crap from anything with the word Labo in it. There is no other way to go than up.
@Pod I pardon your lengthiness, and I agree with everything you wrote! I'm quite hopeful to see how this kit turns out. While Labo definitely isn't for me, I'm interested in seeing how this plays into Nintendo's approach to VR over the future.
This is definitely a more modest way for them to get started in the field, and I think that that's the best thing for them to do right now. I think it's both an attempt to reinvigorate the Labo brand, and a cautious step into the world of VR.
If these kits turn out to be successful as miniature VR experiences, I think it's almost guaranteed that Nintendo will want to pursue an even more serious VR, especially if the rumored Switch 2 turns out to be real. With a higher-resolution screen, I believe we'll see more Nintendo VR beyond Labo.
@DartBuzzer
"Considering that VR is a fundamental shift in games, entertainment, and media (and this is inarguable),"
No the NES was a shift, that is inarguable. People aren't flocking to S2F (that's screen to face) like they would be if it were truly revolutionary. As it stands, it's a novel way to play a game, nothing more.
"Surely I don't need to convince you it's already revolutionary in gaming? Or are we going to pretend that games like Lone Echo / Echo VR are just the same thing as what we've been playing in the last 10-20 years?"
Pretty much the same thing, but congratulations to them, they made a fun game, it's nothing to do with being a S2F game. Boneworks looks fun, but it's not VR.
"You can just imagine it, and imagine friends too.""
You're the one pushing believing in things
"I'll obviously have the last laugh in the next 10+ years as people start to adopt VR at a large scale, and I'll look back knowing I knew it was going to change our lives in a big way."
Anything can happen in ten to infinity years, but whatever tech they are calling VR then will be closer to what VR should be than what we have now, but I still doubt it will live up to the label. But it has never been about what S2F will be in ten years time, it's whether what we have now is VR or not, and is definitely not.
Yup, I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking. After all, it's obviously a more affordable, kid centric VR experience.
Very curious where the source of this talking piece came from, cause I seriously doubt there was that many people with such high expectations for Labo VR. The fact that it's linked with the Labo brand alone probably tempered 95% of people's expectations out of the gate. This article definitely falls under the "Well no you know what!" category lol.
@shaneoh If you look at game design/mechanics and game experience, it is a total overhaul. Being inside a game means it can turn a game into an actual memory/experience of having done something. That's a fundamental shift in media period, and affects your mind in a way that has never occurred before. The level of interaction, new-found mechanics, new genres it opens is also revolutionary, as much if not more so than 2D->3D graphics.
As it develops, it won't just be a media shift, it will be a life shift. The ability to feel like you are somewhere, doing impossible things, with anyone in the planet alongside you, and to become anyone in this place - that is the biggest shift in what it means to live a human life since the dawn of civilization.
"Pretty much the same thing, but congratulations to them, they made a fun game, it's nothing to do with being a S2F game"
An odd abbreviation to avoid saying VR I suppose. But it's a VR game and unlike any other game in history (aside from a few copycats now), and if it's a VR game, then clearly it's a S2F game if you like to call it that.
"Boneworks looks fun, but it's not VR."
Uhh, Boneworks is VR. You might want to check again. Unless you're saying it's 'S2F'? Making up abbreviations for already established terms is pretty pointless, just saying.
"But it has never been about what S2F will be in ten years time, it's whether what we have now is VR or not, and is definitely not."
Almost everyone who has ever used modern VR agrees it is.
Mobile VR has really come a long way. I absolutely love my Oculus Go. I'm playing games that are similar to Pilot Wings, F-Zero, House of the Dead, Wii Sports, Endless Ocean and many more in VR. It's very immersive when done right. The theriputic effect shouldn't be underestimated.
Even though the Switch is more powerful than the Oculus Go, there are so many things working against the Switch having parity with other mobile VR. The tablet is way too heavy to strap to your head and the tablet itself doesn't support gyro. The screen is woefully below the resolution you'd want for most VR experiences.
I've got to hand it to Nintendo. They've thought of some really creative solutions to all the problems inherent in the Switch. I expect them to deliver fun and simple experiences that will introduce a wider audience to the potential of VR. I fully support their efforts and will be buying the kit when it releases. If it does well, maybe Nintendo will consider doing something a little more serious. I would love to see the Switch 2/pro be VR ready. What I wouldn't give to play Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time in VR.
@ThanosReXXX It just seems to work better in French. Probably not over there, but over here, if it's French, it's more a film, less a movie.
Ok no yeah, just figured I was less likely to get in trouble.
@NEStalgia "What have i done"
True story - I didn't even realize the word "Saddle" was in the title until I got a reply from Thanos. 😂
So if it makes you feel any better you can pass all responsibility from yourself onto the author of the article and have a clear conscious.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to go learn French.
Who had high expectations for this?
@DartBuzzer
"Being inside a game means it can turn a game into an actual memory/experience of having done something."
Any sort of game provides that already, and is just as real.
"The level of interaction, new-found mechanics, new genres it opens is also revolutionary, as much if not more so than 2D->3D graphics."
All possible without strapping a screen to your face. If anything truly new comes of it, it's because people lacked the originality to think of it before hand.
"The ability to feel like you are somewhere, doing impossible things, with anyone in the planet alongside you, and to become anyone in this place - that is the biggest shift in what it means to live a human life since the dawn of civilization."
The method of living a human life has never shifted. Survive, procreate, die. That's it. To think that this technology is going to give new meaning to humanity is delusional.
"But it's a VR game and unlike any other game in history "
There are many games that are unlike any other, that doesn't give weight to the argument that it is virtual reality.
"Uhh, Boneworks is VR. You might want to check again. Unless you're saying it's 'S2F'?"
Yep
" Making up abbreviations for already established terms is pretty pointless, just saying."
It's more accurate than calling it Virtual Reality.
"Almost everyone who has ever used modern VR agrees it is."
Doesn't meet most people's perception of what VR is therefore it isn't.
@shaneoh "Any sort of game provides that already, and is just as real."
Research has shown that VR experiences occur in the long-term memory center of the brain. This is not the case with normal games, and it makes logical sense why.
"All possible without strapping a screen to your face"
No. As someone who understands game design, just no.
"To think that this technology is going to give new meaning to humanity is delusional."
Meaning is subjective. The point is that it's a shift in what it means to live a normal human life restricted by the real world. You can be someone else and break the laws of physics - all while feeling like you are actually doing those things.
"There are many games that are unlike any other, that doesn't give weight to the argument that it is virtual reality."
Right, you tell yourself that.
"Doesn't meet most people's perception of what VR is therefore it isn't."
Doesn't matter what people think until they try it. Then they make their judgement.
I had fully expected this to be a minigame fest of games similar to Wii Play and 1-2-Switch. Given that there is no strap to hold any of these to your head it seems pretty secure that Nintendo doesn't plan on gamers having huge immersive experiences with these. Still I can hope that as they added a patch to Mario Kart 8 to support the Labo vehicle kit that a similar patch would become available as well for the VR kit. Still I can wait and be disappointed with the others that surely would love to see it even if it's completely ludicrous. The other thing that would be amazing if that came about would be Virtual Boy titles added to use this kit. But again these are the hopes of a Nintendo fanboy that will in no way come about. With that said I do see a strong chance of Nintendo not letting VR go and delving more into the tech potentially with another Switch 2 or similar device within five to ten years.
"Research has shown that VR experiences occur in the long-term memory center of the brain. This is not the case with normal games, and it makes logical sense why."
Link to study from an independent source. There are many ways of learning, interactive learning has been proven to yield better results in some people.
"No. As someone who understands game design, just no."
Yes, as someone who understands game design, just so.
"The point is that it's a shift in what it means to live a normal human life restricted by the real world."
But it's not, you're still restricted in your everyday activities. Games are just interactive pieces of fiction.
"Right, you tell yourself that."
If you had an argument against my point you would have used it.
"Doesn't matter what people think until they try it. Then they make their judgement."
As this is a family friendly site, I'll refrain from following your line of logic. Suffice to say, judgement can be made without having experienced the subject on which you are judging.
@shaneoh https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/using-virtual-reality-identify-brain-areas-involved-memory/ This describes the use of VR to trigger memories, which in turn points towards VR experiences being stored as memories. I saw another paper that is more specific on this, but I can't find it right now.
"Yes, as someone who understands game design, just so."
Please explain how you are going to do this without VR: https://gfycat.com/pepperycheerfulkitten
You're going to be scratching your head for a long, long while on this one. If you're getting bored of responding, at least enlighten me on this part.
"But it's not, you're still restricted in your everyday activities. "
Nope. I don't play zero gravity frisbee in real life. I don't fight dragons, skeletons, zombies. I also don't go to dance clubs or to sporting events. I can't shoot fireballs. I can't transform into someone else. I do this all in VR. Someone who is totally homebound has an even greater transformation.
"Games are just interactive pieces of fiction."
Yet it feels like you did something, like a memory - in VR.
" Suffice to say, judgement can be made without having experienced the subject on which you are judging."
I didn't realize we were all fit to judge food from videos, pictures, and descriptions. I thought you had to, you know, taste it?
@DartBuzzer
"This describes the use of VR to trigger memories, which in turn points towards VR experiences being stored as memories. I saw another paper that is more specific on this, but I can't find it right now."
There is correlation between using a S2F and memory according to that study. Is it because it's S2F, or because it's giving the appearance of agency to the subject?
"Please explain how you are going to do this without VR: https://gfycat.com/pepperycheerfulkitten
You're going to be scratching your head for a long, long while on this one. If you're getting bored of responding, at least enlighten me on this part."
Are you kidding? It's First person platforming with a ball to shoot around and a bit of reduced gravity.
"Nope. I don't play zero gravity frisbee in real life. I don't fight dragons, skeletons, zombies. I also don't go to dance clubs or to sporting events. I can't shoot fireballs. I can't transform into someone else. I do this all in VR. Someone who is totally homebound has an even greater transformation."
So we are in agreement, we can't do these things in our normal everyday lives, we're still limited and nothing has changed.
"Yet it feels like you did something, like a memory - in VR."
Every game I play I feel like I'm doing something, even if it's struggling effortlessly.
"I didn't realize we were all fit to judge food from videos, pictures, and descriptions. I thought you had to, you know, taste it?"
Hold up a picture of a rock and ask someone to judge whether it's food or not and most people will get it right. Safe to say most people don't eat rocks. A more SFW example than the one I had in mind, so thanks for that.
I already preordered this bad boy (the $80 set) and I’m under no illusions as to what I’m going to get: a damn good time customizing and assembling the kits with my family and from-the-ground-up Nintendo made software. I’m hyped for all the right reasons.
@SWiitch
And the real answer is that it won't.
Unless your interests let you define some of the VR-videos on YouTube as porn.
@ilikeike
I'll be playing it. And if it's good fun, I'll want more.
@shaneoh "Are you kidding? It's First person platforming with a ball to shoot around and a bit of reduced gravity."
That doesn't do it justice at all. Firstly, you can turn on any axis, can grab any surface in the game including players, and can manipulate / move yourself around the surface and push / pull off the surface in any direction with complete precision and immediate timing - and without even looking. (you can float towards a wall while looking in the distance at disc, and then push off the wall without turning to face it)
You have pinpoint accuracy with throwing in 3D space, including the arc and power of the throw, and it's all intuitive. You also have social presence which doesn't exist outside of VR. In the FPS mode, I can hang from the Flamingo payload that moves throughout the level, and can easily manipulate around it to dodge incoming fire. I'm also able to catch a ride on it and aim and fire independently in any direction without even looking in that direction.
So clearly this game isn't possible without VR. You can at best create a game that moves in zero gravity, lets you throw discs, and bounce off walls, but none of it would play anything like the game and it would never be intuitive or work well enough.
"So we are in agreement, we can't do these things in our normal everyday lives, we're still limited and nothing has changed."
If I'm doing these things in VR, I'm expanding what I can do in real life, because for all intents and purposes, these feel like things I actually did.
"Every game I play I feel like I'm doing something, even if it's struggling effortlessly."
You don't effortlessly recall it in the same vain as you do in real life with going to a theme park, or visiting a friend. You remember those naturally, and the same often happens with VR. Outside of VR games, you just remember staring at a screen with your character doing things. If you 'remember' doing crazy maneuvers in Bayonetta, that isn't you doing it, or if it is, it's a fantasy / dream and not an actual memory.
@rjejr You should have stopped at the fake explanation.
You actually had me considering that might just be an actual thing...
@ThanosReXXX Well they were both fake explanations really. The truth is when I was looking for that scene on YouTube - it's the 2nd best scene in Cruel Intentions 2, first best scene is twins in the shower - that's the clip that came up, and I'm too lazy these days to keep looking.
@rjejr My money is still on the wet kiss in Cruel Intentions part 1...
@ThanosReXXX Better than the horse, not as good as the shower.
Oh, congrats, you are 15-0 on the new Google Streambox comment.
@DartBuzzer
"So clearly this game isn't possible without VR. You can at best create a game that moves in zero gravity, lets you throw discs, and bounce off walls, but none of it would play anything like the game and it would never be intuitive or work well enough."
You're either too narrow-minded to be able to break all those components down and see how they can be implemented in a non-S2F experience, or you don't understand game design at all. The game is entirely possible without a screen to the face.
"If I'm doing these things in VR, I'm expanding what I can do in real life, because for all intents and purposes, these feel like things I actually did."
You aren't though, you're playing a game. There is a huge difference between the actions that can be performed in a game and what can be done in real life.
"You don't effortlessly recall it in the same vain as you do in real life with going to a theme park, or visiting a friend. You remember those naturally, and the same often happens with VR."
I do, and I imagine others would too.
"Outside of VR games, you just remember staring at a screen with your character doing things. If you 'remember' doing crazy maneuvers in Bayonetta, that isn't you doing it, or if it is, it's a fantasy / dream and not an actual memory."
Those fireballs you're remembering throwing, those are fantasy/dream as well, they're not a memory.
@shaneoh "You're either too narrow-minded to be able to break all those components down and see how they can be implemented in a non-S2F experience, or you don't understand game design at all. "
I'm a game developer, and I like to say I think outside the box. Heck, it doesn't even require thought. It's fundamentally impossible on any level to create something that even remotely resembles the game. There is no way animation systems can ever allow you to move freely on any axis, bounce off ways in any direction with pinpoint accuracy, and move in a way that feels intuitive with full independent aiming.
Controllers, mice and keyboards, and screens cannot allow this no matter what.
"You aren't though, you're playing a game. "
The brain disagrees. When you are under the influence of presence, your brain just believes it's real. Also, not all of my examples were even games. Dancing and watching sporting events are not game mechanics.
"I do, and I imagine others would too."
That is a fantasy. If you are imagining yourself playing Zelda in the way you just said, then you are imagining yourself in a 1st person perspective doing the things that Link did, which is just a fantasy and not a recollection of actual events.
"Those fireballs you're remembering throwing, those are fantasy/dream as well, they're not a memory."
So how long is this going to continue? What if I'm literally hooked up the Matrix and shooting fireballs then? Are you going to say "Nope, just a fantasy. Your brain doesn't think it's real" Because that's what your thinking points to.
You seem to think that VR has zero ability to act in a way that feels like an extension of yourself in real life, but as just a game playing tool. Well, I have news for you: it is an extension of yourself.
I highly advise you watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGRY14znFxY
But this is my last response to you now, because you're either trolling or just ignorant of VR and gaming in way that seriously concerns me. What really tipped it over the edge is thinking that you can essentially recreate Echo VR without VR. Please, someone cannot be this delusional, I just can't bring myself to think that's actually possible, and I kind of hope you're trolling.
@DartBuzzer
"I'm a game developer"
In the unlikely event that is true, I'm guessing you're working on a S2F game. So either you're a liar or a shill.
"It's fundamentally impossible on any level to create something that even remotely resembles the game. There is no way animation systems can ever allow you to move freely on any axis, bounce off ways in any direction with pinpoint accuracy, and move in a way that feels intuitive with full independent aiming.
Controllers, mice and keyboards, and screens cannot allow this no matter what."
All those mechanics exist in other, non-S2F, games. To think that they can't be cobbled together to function on a keyboard & mouse or controller is ludicrous.
"The brain disagrees. When you are under the influence of presence, your brain just believes it's real. "
It can believe whatever it wants, being able to throw a fireball in game has no impact on whether you can throw a fireball outside the game. It has no impact on real life.
"So how long is this going to continue? What if I'm literally hooked up the Matrix and shooting fireballs then? Are you going to say "Nope, just a fantasy. Your brain doesn't think it's real" Because that's what your thinking points to."
It is a fantasy whether you think it's real or not, just like the Matrix is a fantasy. Believing a game is real is delusional.
"Well, I have news for you: it is an extension of yourself."
Stop the presses , S2F allows crippled people to walk. User asks: "Why do my feet feel so sore?"
@DartBuzzer
Seems I missed your edit.
"But this is my last response to you now, because you're either trolling or just ignorant of VR and gaming in way that seriously concerns me. "
Lol, if someone's opinion on a niche bit of tech is "seriously concerning" to you, then you may want to avoid looking at more significant issues in your community. Just remember, you were the one who initially engaged me in conversation, and continue to engage others who have a negative opinion of the technology labelled (incorrectly) as "VR."
"What really tipped it over the edge"
I imagine being over the edge is quite a common occurrence for you.
"is thinking that you can essentially recreate Echo VR without VR."
You haven't elaborated on whether you're a shill or a liar.
"Please, someone cannot be this delusional"
Believing a S2F game is real and has any impact on your physical capabilities is the delusional part. Glass houses.
"I just can't bring myself to think that's actually possible, and I kind of hope you're trolling."
Not trolling, not even the slightest. That's the amusing part, because I disagree with you, I'm either delusional or a troll. Have you considered politics?
@Abes3 I did read it, and I agree this product is not for me. That's why I said that I will not be buying one.
@PharoneTheGnome yes. But this "article" is for people like you, who find it necessary to comment how it's not 'top range' VR. The point of the article is to remind you about what it is, not weather or not you'll buy it. Because the internet is slowly filling with commenters like "it's not PSVR". Well duh-we know!
@rjejr Depends on who you like. I didn't like the actresses in 2 as much as in the first movie...
And of course I gathered likes: I make sense. When are you ever going to learn?
@ThanosReXXX "When are you ever going to learn?"
I'm too old to learn stuff.
@Jacadamia "Case in point, if it was, there would likely be motion controls in the system itself and not just the joy-con"
I'm not saying the Switch was made for VR, because the resolution seems way too low, but, the system itself has accelerometers and gyroscopes built into it; not just the controllers.
@Nintendo_Thumb oh really? That’s cool. I always just assumed it was only in the joycon since there arent really any times you’d be using motion controls without the joycon being used or attached to the system (that i’ve seen anyway). Thanks for the tip!
@rjejr Replace "learn" with "accept", and I'll believe you.
@ThanosReXXX I accept stuff. I accept that I have to live in a world where everyone is wrong but me. 😂
Case in point. I ordered this camera bundle from a 3rd party on Amazon.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AKQK34G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
As you can see in my review, they only sent me 8 of the 12 items. I sent them an email, they told me they would fix it. They sent me 3 of the 4 missing items, and they sent me a battery for a different Canon camera that won't even fit in mine. So now I have to email them again. Oh, and the 32GB card they mistakenly sent me is dead, doesn't work in my camera or my PC. And the new 64GB card they sent me is a 40MB/s Sandisk, not the 93MB/s Transcend that's in the photo. And I'm going to have to hear about it the rest of my life from my wife, I'm never going to live this one down.
@rjejr Haha, yeah, probably. Those are some of the times that I really don't miss having a better half...
As for the camera deal: I'd be angry as well, and would have probably either sent the whole package back, or would have demanded them to rectify the situation. And I would have done a hell of a lot more than write a mildly scathing review...
But having said that: you did get the superior brand SD Card, so there's that, at least...
@ThanosReXXX "you did get the superior brand SD Card"
Oops, wish I would have read your reply before I sent them another email asking for the Transcend card b/c I thought it was better b/c 95MB/s that can handle 4k vid is better than 48MB/s that can't.
I did think about sending the whole thing back but figured I'd try to let them fix it first. Just sent them another email asking for them to fix their last screw-up. Hopefully they get it right this time so I can move on to something else.
I will definitely be getting the Labo VR.... wait for it.... FOR MY KIDS.
Which is precisely how it's intended. My 5 year-old will love it. That's all this is meant to be and anyone getting bitterly disappointed about this product needs to understand that this is not for you. Or needs to understand the limitations of the hardware. Or both. I just shake my head at all the belly-aching I'm seeing about this.
@ThanosReXXX Look what I just got in my email.
@rjejr Well, that only goes to show that there simply IS no such thing as coincidence...
But damn, 20 years already? I guess it's a good thing that movies preserve youthfulness, otherwise, most of the enticing scenes wouldn't be half as attractive.
I'd better resist the urge to search for one of those "and this is how they look now" pages...
@ThanosReXXX "movies preserve youthfulness"
Yeah, otherwise that high school movie would look like an episode of Happy Days.
I'll just leave this here.
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