Birdo has always been a complex character, especially for the Mario series. In Japan, they're known as 'キャサリン', which loosely translates to 'Catherine' in English, and was referred to in the instruction manual of Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic with male pronouns. Similarly, in the move to the West and under the revised branding and coding of Super Mario Bros. 2, Birdo was described in the manual with the line "He thinks he is a girl".
This has subsequently been retconned outside of Japan, and for the years following Birdo was instead referred to with female pronouns. With the release of Super Mario Party, however, Birdo's gender has been made more ambiguous, and things only get more complicated when you take the region you come from into account.
If you navigate towards the 'Advice' section of the Party Pad, you can find some advice on the in-game Stickers you can unlock, and it mentions how Birdo can help you grab more should you wish. In the United States and Canada, nothing has changed and Birdo is still referred to with female pronouns. In the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, things are turned upside-down and Birdo is described with male pronouns.
Japan, as well as Spain, take a wholly different approach, instead skirting around using any gendered pronouns at all, thus keeping any reference to Birdo's gender intentionally unclear. We've only been able to compile this information thanks to the help of fans like all of you getting in touch on Twitter, so thank you! We'll be sure to add more regions into this article as we learn more.
It's extremely interesting to see a shift like this from Nintendo, and one that will no doubt make for an interesting debate in the comments. Please be mindful of everyone else's views, and be respectful of other people's opinions as much as possible. Cheers!
Comments 144
Say Birdo is trans already, you cowards.
Chances are Birdo probably doesn't even have a gender. I mean it was confirmed a while back that Toadette is neither a boy nor a girl, so chances are Birdo doesn't have a gender either. And like the original manual says, Birdo just wants to be a girl.
Maybe it's a larger metacomment on the current state of the debate around transgender issues? Or y'know, poor communication between localisation teams and a reflection of Nintendo's lack of concern with canonical consistency. But hey ho, it's not like it matters in the grand scheme of things.
It's entirely possible for strange creatures that look like a hellish contortion of Yoshi entrenched in pink frosting to be without gender. Let's all respect Birdo's identity now.
We can make Bowsette, how about having Birdo and Yoshi make a baby?
Heads up on the "United Kindom" typo.
I always wondered where did Birdo get that diamond ring?
Not sure about Birdo's species but it could be a third gender specific to its species.
[sub]Let's not stoke flames. -Lz[/sub]
@RupeeClock Ta
@JazzyPone I can already smell people writing angry blogposts about transphobia in Super Mario Party.
The joke is you can't win: either Birdo is male and identifies as a female, so one should use female pronouns; or by using female pronouns you erase the fact that (s)he's crossdressing in the first place, just making Birdo straight up female, which is trans erasure. It's a lose-lose for Nintendo, win-win for clickbaiters.
...I think Nintendo just does this as a joke at this point. lol
Biologically boy or girl shouldn't matter. I thought it was deadly clear that Birdo was trying to be feminine thus wanted to be referred to as a girl. If this isn't the case then fine, but I really do feel like this is something that should be put to bed by Nintendo with an official updated statement.
I'm aware Nintendo doesn't want to place any politics around their fictional characters but the sooner they address it the better. It doesn't do any good that people will continue to debate this until official word puts an end to it.
Nintendo!!! DARN!!!
I'm absolutly no Sony guy, but if Naughty Dog can show off a lesbian kiss in the Last Of Us 2 trailer - you guys can at least admit that Toadette and Birdo ar G-I-R-L-S and nothing in between!
I like how people are still bothered by the thing's gender identity when it literally shoots eggs out of the nozzle on its face.
But anyway, it was always fun to think of Birdo as the first low-key trans character, but I highly doubt that's what Nintendo was going for.
It's curious that Japan avoided the subject matter, when they previously focused on it in Captain Rainbow.
One of the quests you do in that game to help Birdo involves retrieving "proof of femininity", after Birdo is arrested for using the women's restroom.
The proof isn't shown to the player, it vibrates.
You can also present this proof to a dog to smell, which makes the dog faint.
Birdos are hermaphrodites, maybe? I mean, they're not a human species, so their sexual rules might be vastly different.
Who cares ?
I’d imagine changing the spelling in an already localized game for UK standards would be quite a boring job. Maybe the UK localizer changed it to see if anyone would notice?
Does it matter, Let Birdo be whatever gender he or she wants to be.
and yet, i thought Birdo was a girl. she has a bow in her hair, some eggs, and a boyfriend named Yoshi....
@AG_Awesome
Bowsette sounds like a good idea. we already have baby Mario, baby Luigi, baby peach, toadette, and peachette.
Why does Birdo have to have a sexuality AT ALL ?!?!
Seriously, it looks like a girl, leave it at that, it's a character, mostly a villain, serves one purpose, prevent the chosen protagonist or hero from completing the objective
LGBTQC or even STRAIT does NOT enter into gameplay, nor does it need to, it's bad enough that games are oversexualizing character physiques worse than ever, but is it really necessary to confirm/reafirm the sexuality of characters at all ???
No, I may make some enemies in here with what I'm about to say but stop trying to over analyze and trying to push shnizzit on things, and it's not just games, too many other areas like Bert & Ernie, for many decades they have been the Sesame Street version of "The Odd Couple" but a few years ago, people started questioning that they are/should be closet gays and have been pushing it to make it happen....WHY ??? it's a friggin kids educational show and also helps to learn to deal with certain things, but sexuality shouldn't even be involved at all, strait or alternative, leave it be
a footnote in the original Japanese instruction book said Birdo thought he was a girl, but no one saw it that way nor did anyone give a shnizzit back then, why does it matter now, why does it matter at all ???
what was even the point of this article at all ???
is Birdo a girl or a boy ???
has REAL news that interests players become so unavailable that you have to scrounge around for something as stupid as this to legitimize your presence as a reporter here ???
this is dumb. Why doesn't Nintendo just use the singular they/them pronoun if they can't decide?
There's a plot line based arround this in Captain Rainbow .
@jhewitt3476 And here you are, triggered. I do agree with you that topics like this aren’t the point of Nintendo games. However, this is definitely inconsist in identifying who Birdo is/wants to be. That’s why the discussion keeps being brought up because Nintendo just isn’t picking she or they and moving on. And at this point in 2018 it’s a little weird to be this ambiguous.
Who cares?
@jhewitt3476 Dude, it might be weird but people have an attachment to these games and the characters and learning more about them is always cool.
We shouldn't shun gender and sexuality from gaming, not while representation is an issue. Maybe in the future when no one cares what anyone else is, but not now. Personally I think having an entire species of transgender dinosaurs is a perfect fit for the mario universe since its just the right level of weirdness
@gloom I mean to be fair they couldve changed it for countries that are less open to the idea of gender fluidity for business purposes. For example Americans are a large audience and LGBT communities arent truly equal across the entire US.
Okay, but how does Birdo shoot eggs from their mouth? Do eggs develop in the stomach at an alarming rate? Is it a nose or a mouth?
It's like there's only ONE birdo in the whole Mario universe!
In any case, I find it funny and kinda endearing that Birdo of all characters is the gender fluid icon of Nintendo.
Gender is a sociological construct, so I take exception to people using the word "gender" as opposed to "sex" (which a lot of people nowadays feel uneasy about using since its colloquial application to mean "sexual intercourse" which had only become commonplace in the 20th century). Sex refers to our inalienable biological reality whereas gender refers to subjective notions (usually culturally defined) of masculinity and femininity (with "neutered", oddly enough, being the neutral category).
I would hardly consider myself to be a blokey bloke by any stretch of the imagination (I'm quite insecure about my lack of masculine qualities, actually) but I think it is disingenous to forfeit our inalienable biological reality due to being a few pretty feathers short of a peacock.
I had asked one of my university professors 10 years ago in ernest whether "transgender" as opposed to "transsexual" was a subjective sociological inclination in which one chooses to identity as the opposite sex without undergoing any of the hormonal or surgical processes that would take place when transititioning as a transsexual, and they awkwardly tiptoed around the question and did not give me a response. Their lack of response irritated me (particularly as someone interested in gender and sexuality from a critical sociological perspective) because they did not seem to wish to address the truth of what was being said and feared addressing any of the rhetoric concerning the interchangeable use of the two terms, which represent very different approaches to two seemingly identical phenomena.
The use of the word "sex" in its proper application has been eroded, I've noticed, particularly throughout the last 20 years. I can understand the desire of some people to become transsexual, but "transgender" is such a subjective term. By definition, I can demand to be classed as female and to be referred to by female pronouns "because I said so" (and damned be the naysayers who dare deprive me), and it is not something that can be objectively proven or even disproven as the right to assertion is exclusive to the person making the proclamation.
I can understand that an intersex person (or anybody else of unusual chromosomal makeup) would be inclined to make a choice (or not) in accordance with the sex that they most gravitate towards, but I fear that we are fast cultivating a society in which we are forfeiting the inherent differences between the sexes in a misguided attempt to achieve "equality". Both sexes are evidently different, both with unique needs, and it is ridiculous to try to force both pegs through the same hole. Unfortunately, people are allowing their indignation regarding their role in society cloud their judgement, and gender roles should by all means be challenged, but to delude oneself into ignoring these differences is madness.
Undue societal constraints ought to be challenged, yes, but we need to understand what we are struggling against. I don't like a lot of the expectations of being a man (and at nearly 30 years of age, I still feel very odd to be referred to as a "man"), and fortunately, a lot of those archaic expectations have eroded over time, and not everybody is going to conform to rigidly defined gender roles, but sex is also important, so let's talk about it... baby.
@JazzyPone in the uk they pretty much do
Birdo identifies as female and is glamorous. No more need be said.
In reference to Birdo though, I think the Super Mario Bros. USA (aka 2) description is the most apt, at least if we are to indulge the notion that Birdo is an organism that exists in male and female varieties. To say otherwise would be like referring to Barry Humphries as a female when speaking about his performance as Dame Edna. Grammatically, it would make no sense to suddenly refer to him as "her" unless referring to the character Dame Edna herself.
Plus, I think referring to Birdo as a "he" is more subversive, because he is a very feminine looking character with very feminine qualities, and I think people would be quite taken aback by the notion of referring to a very feminine character as he, but he is a "he" in respect to his (for argument's sake) biology. I would have assumed him to be female until indicated otherwise. Similarly, Forrest from Fire Emblem looks very girlish and is often mistaken for a female, but is referred to as "he", because the pronouns exist in respect to one's biology as opposed to "because I said so".
Because hey, who DOESN'T want to waste their life getting worked up into a furor over the perceived sexual politics of Mario characters?
You can't look at this thing and seriously tell me that's a guy.
My question is why does Birdo shoot eggs from it's face?? Plus, how does it swallow with that fixed shape mouth??? OMG!! What if something gets stuck in it's mouth?? Is it a mouth or a face-mounted bumhole????
@VexingInsanity
but WHY ???
would it make you feel better knowing that Birdo identifies itself as a girl ???
if Birdo was just a female of the Yoshi species would you feel the same ???
if he/she/it was in an RPG and so a backstory would be legitimized, would you see the point or benefit that they threw in "oh, by the way, even though at no point in this game is there any involvement with Birdo taking a romantic or even a mild crush on another character in the game, we want to mention, Birdo is gay"
would it have made you feel like the character was more likeable or respectable because they threw that bit of info in the game ???
I'm all for backstories, but keep the info relative, a yoshi, a villain, why did he/she/it become a villain ??? sure, but btw Birdo is really a guy crossdressing
what the hell is the point ? it's irrelevant
I'm not what you think, here's my point from another angle
what would people do if Nintendo said "Mario Is Strait And Proud."
I would go just as Ape-Spit, WTF would be the point of that ???
it's irrelevant and frivolous
but I bet society would NOT be "aww, that's cool, I like to know that being proud of sexuality in game is good"
if an LGBTQC character shouted I'm proud of my sexuality, even though it has nothing to do with my role in games, people would be proud, but hypocritically a strait character shouts strait and proud even though it has nothing to with my role in games, those very same people would go nuts, stocks would drop, marches, boycots, hour long interviews on 60 Minutes, ect
why does ANY sexuality references need to be involved at all ???
ESPECIALLY when it is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT !!!
for those who want to use "character signs of affection" as a defense, to legitimize the need to clarify sexuality no, just because Mario wants a peck on the cheek from the princess after saving, doesn't mean he should shout out "Oh boy, I'mma glada I'mma strait man !!! "
and don't get me wrong, it isn't about just sexuality, I have the same problem with oversexualized characters too, always have, I mean, would the game be worse if the girl had a more realistic body, ESPECIALLY if she is some type of physical combatant ???
is it really pivotal that the protagonist's partner walks around in a tiny bathing suit and her bare ass cheeks hanging all the way out of her thong throughout the whole game ??? No it is not
it's IRRELEVANT and just takes away from the games
It's inadequate that in 2018 Nintendo keeps it ambiguous. We have a long way to go yet in terms of recognition of LGBT people, but we've advanced a lot. And the politically correct thing to do nowadays would be using female pronouns with her.
@Silly_G Wow, somebody who's actually educated and knows what they're talking about. It's not often you come across that in these sorts of comment sections.
inb4 they change it with a patch
Birdo is a boy that wants to be a girl. That's fine with me. Birdo must have his/her own game "Birdo's Happy Gay Adventure" with lots of rainbow flags on the box cover.
Shouldn't it be the opposite since America is where Tumblr is?
Birdo was originally referred to as a "boy" who thinks he's a "girl." BIRDO FOR SMASH!
@stevenw45 And now add baby Birshi or Yordo.
@JazzyPone you really think they're gonna say that Birdo's in denial on a Nintendo page?
@jhewitt3476 Well if they said mario was straight that would be unacceptable because it would be unnecessary and we know mario is straight. But LGBT communities are underrepresented and Birdo is an issue that was brought up years back and was a part of their original character design. There is no black characters in mario, no gay characters in mario and birdo adds that bit of diversity to the game. Might not be necessary but it's cool to see representation and people just want to see it. It was never an oh btw situation. It was just a part of how birdo was designed and people want answers.
@RupeeClock my god that is brilliant. Such a shame that game was never officially exported from Japan
lol and usual USA gets the cut version of everything. kinda sad isn't it? you would think that place should've been evolved more and having more acceptantce?
@AG_Awesome
Birshi and Yordo...okay.. i can somewhat imagine what Birshi may look like, but Yordo?? Yordo sounds like the mole on Birshi that is (or was) the reabsorbed twin that Birshi never had.....lol
@VexingInsanity
I think you are missing my point, NO COMMUNITY need be "Represented" at all, alternative, strait, or otherwise, your vision is bias, Mario characters, even with presumed strait sexuality do not "Represent" the Strait community, they represent the Jumping on and throwing fire balls community, they represent the lighthearted, fun loving community, they represent silly and crazy imagry and gameplay community, but at no point have they represented ANY sexuality community, gay, strait nor otherwise, nor should they ever be
want to represent they LGBTQC community ???
make games and characters specifically as such, but trying to force sexuality into games that the games and character inter-relationships are irrelevant in case of sexuality is not only vain and egotistical, but pretty hypocritical.......doesn't the LGBTQC hate it when the strait community tries to force themselves upon them ???
Leave sexuality out of games and characters that are irrelevant to sexuality !!!
@jhewitt3476 Its not being shoehorned in though. Birdo has been this way since introduction and at a time when transgender enemies was probably a good concept. So its right for it to be addressed properly.
The UK English version also mislabels Toadies as Magikoopas despite it being based off the NOA translation which has the correct name.
So, Birdo is born with boy parts, but realizes he is a she and is transgender - but Toads are born without any boy or girl parts, but assume a gender profile anyway? Pretty dope.
What's the issue with just accepting that Birdo is genderqueer? Is there a reason that we have to squeeze every character into a binary gender structure? Why are we so concerned with Birdo's sex and reproductive equipment?
Could just be gender-fluid.
you haven't read a single word, you may be able to hear what I'm saying, but you are not listening, I heard and understood what you were saying, it is obvious you don't understand (or chose not to)
it does not matter what the footnote in a 30 year old instruction manual said, I already recognized Birdo's gender identity, but I've been saying it should not be included at all
SMB 2, the cut scene where Birdo's wedding to her "partner" was interrupted by Toad makes it understandable why Birdo went evil.....
oh wait, their was no cut scene explaining why Birdo went rogue, wait, I know, one of the level's hidden doors actually leads to his house where a family portrait of him.....in boys clothes as a baby yoshi stands next to a closet of women's clothes and another picture of Female looking Birdo standing next to RuPaul in Las Vegas.....
oh wait, that's not there either, wait, it seems, other than a footnote and some mixed pro-nouns later on games, at no time has Birdo's actual gender or the fact that he dresses up in female ensemble ever actually been visualized, or involved in games, in any interactions or anything at all
it was a pointless addition that served no purpose, ever, not even for slap stick comedy if you hit Birdo just right and girls clothes flew off revealing she is really a he for cheap laughs, NO
I've not been saying no to alternative lifestyle characters in Mario games, I've been say no to ANY attempts to weave in ANY references of ANY sexuality in games where there is no involvement of sexuality at all.....strait AND alternative, any of it
Unfortunately, I believe that this is just poor communication between localisation teams and a reflection of Nintendo's lack of concern with canonical consistency as @Jacob1092 says. Otherwise, why one country would say "he" and the other "she"?
If Birdo changed the sex to female then should be referred to as "she", technically. But the first game implies that no change at all was made and thus "he thinks that he is a girl" as if he was young and confused. So, has Birdo finally done any change and become a female transsexual? That's the big question.
And sorry but every being with eyes, nose, mouth, arms and legs need to have a sex or be hermaphrodite at the very least and that includes Toad.
PtM wrote:
may I ask....what is this ???
When I was a kid I asked Nintendo if Mario liked Princess Toadstool (Peach) because he blushes when she kisses him on the cheek and they answered me and told me "He fancies her but most of all they are very good friends".
What other gaming character of unspecified gender does this remind us of?
Gee, I wonder...
I can't find the gif from Scout's quote in the Meet The Pyro trailer, woe is meWhy not make Birdo non-binary?
Pretty simple:
Birdo = Transgirl
In the places where (politically) appearance matters more than sex parts, use she pronouns. In the places where (politically) sex parts matters more than appearance, use he pronouns. In the places where gender identity and sex identity is determined by energy or souls don't use any or use they/them.
Does anyone know if Birdo was the first trans character in a video game? I know Boy George and Prince were the first in pop culture as a whole.
Also, if anyone has a beef about trans people just remember that the vast majority of them aren't attracted to you either. Also, transgender doesn't mean transsexual; most transgender people just like the other binary culture more. Which means non-binaries just hate culture as a whole; which some how makes them special snowflakes?
@VexingInsanity Wait, why would Mario being declared as straight be "unacceptable"? I can perhaps see the unnecessary arguement, but you're telling me that you'd take offense at Mario being declared straight?
So wait, isn't Birdo a whole species instead of a singular character? Thus it stands to reason that this Birdo might be an entirely different character from the Birdo in SMB2.
Then again, SMB2 was all a dream, so technically wouldn't that make the manual descriptions of all the enemies in SMB2 purely Mario's thoughts on said enemy characters/species, be it conscious or unconscious?
@MaxlRoseGNR Ummm.... that's two different things, entirely.
@DanteSolablood It might not really be an "egg" in the sense that we know it as, but rather maybe calcified food balled up and compressed in its stomach? Or perhaps combustible matierials produced by its body (vaguely similar to whatever Bowser and other Mushroom Kingdom creatures produce from their bodies that allow them to spit out fireballs/breathe fire) somehow encased in an eggshell-like matierial to allow it to better deliver the explosive payload (given that some games depict said eggs exploding on impact).
@Silly_G Quite the novella you've written there, but you bring up some very good points.
Even though this little tidbit about Birdo was created in the 80s as an offhanded side note, trans culture is still a very difficult subject for most. The Triforce of this is made up of gender indentity, sexual orientation, and biological anatomy.
Many people tend to group those 3 separate qualities into the same category, which is the main cause of miscommunication.
@DanteSolablood
Now see Dante' be careful, that observation about her mouth shape and spitting and swallowing could open up a whole can of dirty worms !!! LOL
@jhewitt3476 Well, it's back from the day when manuals were an important part of the lore, e.g. all the backstory of Zelda, Zelda II or even SMB(1).
Also, Nintendo never forced any sexuality into this. Translators are just "confused" what pronoun they should use to adress her/him/it according to lore.
Although... Birdo does have a confusing gender identity when you think about the "behind-the-scenes" stuff. She was pictured as a love interest for Yoshi in the last decade, a male-looking dinosaur that lays eggs (that could be both genders) having a love interest in a pink dinosaur that is considered male in some territories and shoots eggs from its mouth. It does raise the question how they'd reproduce.
@jhewitt3476
I think you’ve explained your point quite clearly, but take a minute to listen to what others are saying. Just because they don’t agree with you doesn’t mean they’re not listening.
Mario was introduced in Donkey Kong right off the bat as a decidedly straight character. His prize was Pauline and there was a heart to confirm his straightness. It’s so normal that people don’t think it’s outright sexuality, but it is. Every Mario game since has referenced his straightness in some way, and so, yes, representation becomes important. I know some exist in more recent years, but Birdo is literally the only trans video game character I can name. That means a lot to the LGBTQ community, where if they throw us a bone, it will be a feeding frenzy. So, yes, all things being equal, it shouldn’t be a thing, but things are not equal because we get “everybody is straight” thrown at us constantly and some of us notice that as much as you notice people going nuts about Birdo.
Your point of view is not invalid, but I don’t think you’re putting yourself in our shoes and seeing it from our angle. If it doesn’t affect your life one way or the other, then let us have our trans Birdo because it makes a huge difference for us.
A Birdo topic!? Well ain't this a pleasant surprise.
I honestly don't care about Birdo's gender or how others define her, since either way, Birdo is bae ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Note: I personally define Birdo as a she, because of how feminine Birdo is, even if male, Birdo clearly wants to be defined as female.
This has been a topic of discussion since Super Mario Bros 2 when Birdo was Ostro and the user manual says "He thinks he is a girl."
This has been a topic of discussion since Super Mario Bros 2 when Birdo was Ostro and the user manual says "He thinks he is a girl."
I think the US version is basically just calling him by female pronouns because we're respecting the gender identity he wants <3
(Not that any other region isn't doing that, just trying to put a positive spin on it~)
The comments on here are gross. Why, whenever a character is possibly LGBT do people suddenly decide that characters shouldn’t have genders or sexualities?
Are you people seriously going to now say that Mario isn’t male? That he isn’t straight? That Luigi isn’t male? That peach isn’t female? These characteristics obviously matter to their character and it’s an idiotic straw man to throw out ‘why does gender matter? Why do they have genders?’.
If the manual from ages ago said that she identifies as a she then THAT IS HER CHARACTER. The pronoun confusion is obviously a miscommunication and that’s it. You shouldn’t jump on the opportunity to try and act like people are irrational for liking the character as stated at her inception.
Im freaking sick of people just saying ‘gender doesn’t matter and sexuality doesn’t matter, it’s a video game’ when that only comes up if a character slightly deviates from the norm. Sexuality and gender don’t matter? Tell that to all the romance and role playing video games that exist and the forced straight romances in every game ever. Mario and Bowser both love Peach for Christ’s sake.
Has anyone designed a "Bowsette" of Birdo??? Does it exist?
The better thing to question is why should we care what gender some fictional creature is? Like really let's worry about other actual important things.
@jhewitt3476 amen
Love how last week everyone was complaining about Bowsette because Bowser is a guy but now everyone suddenly doesn’t care about the gender of video game characters.
@jrpacman
Let me try to put it a different way......
I was recently watching one of those reality cooking shows on Netflix, the contestants/cooks introduced themselves, normal stuff, a parent, loved cooking since before birth, career before cooking, years of experience and prefered dishes ect., but then one came up and introduced herself
"I am a brown gay woman, proud and here to cook !!!"
um......so the freak what ???, fine, you gave a peck on the cheek to your partner when you won the test, but what the hell did advertising your heritage, gender and sexuality have to do with that cooking contest ???
I already mentioned btw that "shows of affection" are not the representation of a sexual preference community, they are after her, but they are not all, like I want HER BECAUSE I'M HETEROSEXUAL
I'm sorry when you beat the game and that heart appears over your head, the only thing you think of is how sexuality in Mario games is represented unfairly, I think, ok, he saved the girl and she loves that he did that, now, next game
active propagation of sexuality has no place in Mario games, that is not what they are about
want a game where sexuality has representation and serves a useful in game purpose, make one, but don't try to insert it where it does not belong and REALLY don't try to say because there is a show of affection to the winner or a villain of opposite gender is constantly pursuing his prize that it is a blatant representation of heterosexuality, that was just pathetic
@PtM
yah, np Gratzi amico !!!
@jhewitt3476 how is one character being trans ‘active propagation’? Referring to being gay as an ‘alternative lifestyle’ that doesn’t deserve representation speaks very clearly to your bias against any sort of representation. Your straw man arguments that gender ‘just doesn’t mstter’ are completely disproven when the franchise history of Bowsers love for Peach and Mario’s love for her are taken into account as well as the base fact that Mario is always a ‘he’ and Peach and Rosalina etc. are always ‘she’. We have RPGs in this franchise that fully flesh out a lot of characters but Birdo can’t have a 1 sentence long description that matters?
If gender and such truly don’t matter to you in video games then you wouldn’t be here arguing so fervently against anything other than straight, CIS characters being presented in the game. You’re clearly bothered and so it clearly matters.
@ReaderRagfish
I always saw Yoshi as a Bell 222 personally
@jhewitt3476 so you’re trolling to try to egg LGBT people on by saying you couldn’t care less about their existence and you actively don’t want them in your video games AND that the presence of one character is propaganda? How pleasant.
@AquaVibe
#85
Birdo is already better than any "ette" o3o
@Peterjr1
#88
Hey now, not "everyone". I never complained about Bowsette ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@ReaderRagfish ??? Heliphobic ???
you do know what a Bell 222 is right ???
@PtM Nica analogy
I'm thinking Muldar though
He's a girl.
@Kinoen
Birdette?
We just need to find him/her a crown/tiara 👑👸
😁
@jhewitt3476 Well, Birdo was in thos (official, but non-canon) Game that used Birdo as a character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnlOYrf0PD0
Game is Captain Rainbow, Japan only. Her Gender is adressed several times in the game.
I'm ok with both gender. Being ambiguous is not a bad thing. Everyone are so genderized... So much stereotypes...
"Official".....yah, like I really believe Nintendo would allow one of their more recognized characters to curse like a pirate, the "unofficial" (and probably "unauthorized too) vid, even if it was a real game does not actually propogate sexual preference,
@AquaVibe
No, I mean Birdo doesn't need an "ette" since she's already the best she can be >.>...also, it would be Birdetta, since that she wanted to be called in at least one game o3o
They had the means of making Birdo a trans or whatever throughout all the regions in this day and age, AND THEY BLEW IT with the continuation of this mess. Birdo is just straight up female by default, like how the Solo movie's Lando "pansexual" issue was settled. Poorly handled. Again, they had the opportunistic means, but they failed. Now, a simple "make Birdo trans" move is impossible, not even with an "Ends justify the means" approach, because thats lazy storytelling.
@jhewitt3476 Gender identity isn't a sexuality though. Sexuality is simply your preferences. Your identity is who you are or see yourself as. There is nothing sexual about Birdo and you claim it shouldn't be added as some arbitrary fact yet you make a big deal about it. We already have asexual creatures such as Toad and Toadette assuming gender roles based off of the two tradtional sexes of sexual creatures so why can't a creature that lays eggs like Birdo not be allowed to potentially have a gender identity that doesn't "match" their sex?
@patbacknitro18 That's sex and even then they called Birdo a "he" that wanted to be a "she" which comes off as kinda transphobic.
Is this what counts for big gaming controversies these days? If so, I'd say gaming is either extremely pleasant, or extremely boring right now. Birdo's pink, has a frilly bow, and a diamond ring, things that girls normally like, so I think of her as a girl. There's been no grand announcement to finalize what Birdo is, and since Mario never toys around with character design to mess with people's idea of what sex someone is, I'm leaning towards my own theory. If you think otherwise, there's some vagueness to make different theories reasonable, but this isn't worth a grand debate.
Birdo wants to be a girl, thats it, let him be
Gender doesn’t mean anything anymore, just get over it
@NIN10DOXD
curious....show me the reference material that actually states Toad and/or Toadette are actually without gender,
it is obvious that their physical appearances reflect a stereotype of a male and a female character, Birdo had a reference 30 years ago of an actual gender, but where has it been stated that any Toads are without gender or is it just presumed because in real life, fungi are without gender ???
Let's see....
1. Gender Confusion of Birdo.
2. Crossdressing Mario.
3. Barechested Mario.
4. Peachette gender.
5. Triangle Love between Mario , Princess Peach & Pauline.
6. Same gender Marriage on Tomodachi Life by doing Crossdressing Mii.
7. Crossdressing on Mii & Animal Crossing.
8. Amore ! Amore ! from Miitopia when your Miis relationship is more than Lv 40, regardless of gender.
9. You can make a Very Macho & Masculine Princess, Very Feminine Fat King, Trans Elf Sisters, Genderless Dark Lord, Gay Couple Villagers, etc from Miitopia.
10. Gay Purple Genies from The Snack World - Level5.
11. A Feminine Gay salesman from Help Wanted 50 Wacky Jobs Wii.
12. Kinniku March WiiWare.
13. Crossdressing on MySims Wii.
14. A Rainbow Flags on Portal Knights.
15. Married with God or Goddess on Harvest Moon Animal Parade Wii.
You can be gay, bisexual or straight in Fable too, have sex with and marry other men.
We're worried about the gender of a character in a Mario game?
How about Mario games have an actual plot other than his girlfriend gets "abducted (pretty willingly eh?)" by a giant dragon and yoy run around on magically floating blocks tripping on shrooms?
@MysticMask Randomly declaring mario is strait might come off as a bit weird and as if theyre promoting straits as superior.
I dont appreciate how this would be the case in modern society but you gotta face the bigger problems in society b4 you tackle those.
Although I dont think my argument here is very clear, I hope it makes enough sense 😅. I think unacceptable was a strong word I probably should have said that a lot of liberalists might take the act too personally and get triggered and it'll become big thing that nintendo is against gays or something.
Nobody cares about a fictional character's gender.
@mikegamer you cared enough to comment and all the people in here bothered that LGBT people exist while saying ‘who cares about gender?’ certainly care about it
If you think about it, Birdo shoots its babies out at you, she isn’t playing around Kappa. Lore wise male, My opinion it’s primarily female based on eggs. Also, if the crown flow.... Nevermind that!
inserts boy this escalated quickly meme comment section getting toxic.
From the first time I played SMB2, I thought Birdo was a girl. Granted, they're coming from the wrong end, but dudes don't lay eggs.
@Kyranosaurus you think Nintendo should release an official statement regarding the gender of an entirely fictional pink cartoon dinosaur?
@jhewitt3476 I said they were sexless, not genderless. Fungi can actually reproduce sexually or asexually. https://kotaku.com/toads-arent-boys-or-girls-theyre-just-toads-1659764337
Hi, I'm Birdo. My pronouns are like xzhe and xzheep
Did Nintendo just assume Birdo's gender?! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
@Peterjr1 Birdo isn't real, so why is gender an issue?
nobody is listening
Could someone here photoshop Birdo without her makeup, the bow on het head, etc? Thanks!
The Birdo Gender thing is a nice running joke; it always surprises me how many people can be offended by a thing such as gender.
@Saego These days people get offended by anything / everything. It's really sad, and shows a bigger problem in society these days.
@RETRO_J I'm actually not offended. Just disappointed.
For instance take all this feminism, these "modern" feminist have ruined it for the original feminists. I'm all in for equal rights, equal pay, equal benefits. But this goes two ways. Also equal punishments, equal work (requirements) and equal disadvantages.
Where most modern feminists just want the positives but not the negatives. Or they just seem in an all out war against men.
These days it's like when your a straight white male you are actually evil spawn of Satan. And that's not good.
Newsflash, Birdo's sex and/or gender is a running gag.
Who'da thunk it after all this time!! (?)
@luke88 yes.
Why do we even need to care about someone's - even a video game character's - gender...
@Silly_G You seem to have an academic view on the subject, except that the base of your argumentation is flawed and therefore, your conclusions too.
Fun fact : I was thinking excatly like you until a few weeks ago, but by talking to actual trans people (instead of an external professor), I saw something was amiss, and decided to do some more researchs.
So, you seem to mix up multiple gender terms.
There's usually 3 things we think of when we speak about it.
Gender norms : how a man or a woman "should act" according to society.
Gender expression : how someone expresses his gender. You said it yourself, you're not a bloke, your gender expression doesn't match 100% your gender norm. Different terms.
Gender identity : how you "feel" you are. That's the most important one.
(And then, there's the biological sex, which does not have anything to do with gender.)
When you talk about gender, you seem to forget the most important one, identity, and focus instead on the expression one (and mix it a bit with the norms).
People who don't care about gender identity but expression instead are transvestites. That seems to be what you have in mind when you talk about trans.
On the other hand, trans people do care about gender identity, and that's what makes them trans in the first place.
In a way to express their gender identity, they often (but not always) change their expression, and sometimes even their biological sex, so that other people stop making them feel bad by calling them the opposite of how they feel like they are.
Now, how do they "feel" they are a man or a woman when that's not matching their sex?
Well... That can't be "explained". It's a feeling.
You can try to rationalise a feeling as much as you want, if you never felt it, it will seem alien.
Try to describe anger to someone who can't feel that. It will feel like an invention to them, something that doesn't exist.
They will probably say at one point "Why would you choose to be angry, if it's bad, then?"
You just have to accept that's how they feel and they can't choose it.
Now, I won't say that you did a bad job. I did the same reflexion recently and came to almost the same conclusions!
It's just that it's natural to not know everything, and it's normal to make mistakes because of it.
And now you know more!
(Also, please stop saying transsexual, as gender doesn't have anything to do with sex, and it implies it's like heterosexual or homosexuel, as in a sexual orientation.)
@Kyranosaurus Can you see how some people might think that’s hilarious?
@luke88 You say this as if I didn't already point it out in my original comment.
@Mopati : Condescension and repeating tiresome platitudes does not make your worldview more persuasive or your perception better informed. You said yourself that your perspective had changed a mere few weeks ago, so you evidently haven't thought much about or reflected on gender and sexuality more deeply (and perhaps your mind will change again), whereas this has been an area of interest of mine for two decades now, and I have written about and studied these topics (both academically and as a point of interest).
My intention was to present facts from a sociological perspective whilst also making mention of a few personal opinions and observations regarding the differences (and the relationship) between sex and gender. At no point was I presenting an argument or drawing conclusions in my initial post, so I have no idea what you are talking about there.
I am very familiar with the rhetoric that you have described as we are exposed to it every day via media outlets (including social media). What is lacking, however, is a sensible dialogue about the longterm impact that this effort to completely render sex irrelevant in our society will have, especially when this means that the needs of individuals based on their inherent physiology may be neglected in order to pander to an emerging minority who have placed greater credence in their subjective perception of how they "feel", contrary to their objective physiology.
I have made no comment concerning how one should conduct themselves in their lives, but what I am emphasising is that sex (our inalienable reality) is more important than gender (which is subjective, be it shaped by society, individual inclination etc.), and that sex is not being spoken about enough, and that we should foster a dialogue in which people can understand the two concepts individually as opposed to eroding one in favour of the other (as, rhetorically, "sex" has been substituted in favour of "gender" in recent years).
And it is absolutely laughable that you would object to and have the gall to tell me to stop using the word "transsexual" due to your subjective perception of the word being akin to a sexual orientation (which it isn't), as opposed to the reality, being that it refers to the practice of surgical and/or hormonal (and perhaps also psychiatric and/or behavioural) intervention in order for one to resemble a sex contrary to their own (or in the case with intersex persons, to more closely resemble the sex that they more closely identify with). Just as distinguishing between sex and gender is important, so is the difference between transsexualism and transgenderism. Such rhetorical objections and misunderstandings is why "gender" is now the preferred term over "sex" in the first place, and is the reason why we are having this dialogue today.
@Kyranosaurus That an official statement would be hilarious? I can’t see where you wrote that.
@luke88 I said that I know Nintendo wouldn't want to tie their fictional characters to a political statement. I know it would sound silly. The point is that this is a subject that has proven to become a large debate every single time it's brought up.
The matter of the fact is that it's something that needs to be finally put to rest.
@NIN10DOXD Sorry, it is 100% Gender. Also, it can't be transphobic if the person has no gender. If they have no gender, and yet you call them the opposite pronoun of their choice, then how is that at all transphobic if they are neither gender to begin with? Heck, that wouldn't even make Birdo trans because they have no gender, meaning that they can't choose the opposite gender to be.
@patbacknitro18 : Gender can't even be applied to non-human organisms as it is a sociological construct, unless of course you intend to rigorously analyse the sociology of a nonexistent fictitious entity of ambiguous physiological constitution.
@Silly_G Gender is not a sociological construct. Gender is 1 of 2 sides on the reproductive cycle. Gender does not define who you are as a person, and you shouldn't allow it to mask the personality you have. Embrace who you are as a person, not what you look like on the outside.
@jhewitt3476 "what was even the point of this article at all ???"
Describing
@Silly_G I have a lot of things to say about that, as you seem to contradict a lot of answers I've had by asking trans people, but I'll keep simple and short.
Can you answer that simple question:
What pushes people to be trans?
In what life situation does someone become trans?
(I've seen a paragon of masculinity become a trans woman, and a guy very, very feminine who doesn't want to be trans (and is hetero), or even a trans girl that doesn't want HRT because she doesn't want to conform to feminity and be her own person. And that's not the only cases I saw that disprove the idea of this being the cause of feminity/masculinity.)
@patbacknitro18 Once again. You are confusing gender with sex. Yes in western societies we traditionally base gender solely on sex however that is not true in all cultures. You are missing the point. Nintendo says that Birdo is biologically of the male sex, but identifies with the female gender. Calling them confused and telling them what they can and cannot be is transphobic.
@Silly_G I don't see why it can't still apply for Birdo in a fictional world where several non-humans function as equals in a human-like society.
@VexingInsanity How would declaring as straight be promoting straights as "superior"? That seems like one heck of a leap in logic to make.
Which can also be said for the liberalists that you mentioned. Taking it "personally", getting "triggered", and trying to spin it around into concluding that Nintendo "hates the gays" is quite the stretch, and doesn't seem like a sane reaction to it.
So in so many words, Birdo is transgender?
There are only two genders - male and female. So, it has a big red butters on top of the head, of course Birdo is female
@NIN10DOXD Once again I must inform you that I am not confusing the 2, I 100% mean gender. And no, I'm not missing the point. My argument was that like with Toadette, Birdo has no gender at all. (With Nintendo having officially said Toadette has no gender) So you can't be transphobic against something that has no gender at all.
Really!? I guess you shouldn’t just assume that pink creatures with ribbons and makeup are female.
@patbacknitro18 That would be sex though. Otherwise, why would she be Toadette though. It seems like she is clearly supposed to be “feminine.”
@NIN10DOXD 1. Again not sex, 100% not sex. When I say gender I mean it. And 2. "feminine" is right. However, she could still be feminine and have no gender at all. After all we have female Koopas, Goombas, and Boos and they don't seem to have a gender either.
Far as I care, Birdo's a woman, whether others would call her that or not. Regardless how she's built, she's always presented as we see her today, no?
@Silly_G – Skimming through your novellas, you put a lotta structure and form into saying, "Let's use pronouns based on others' sex junk," whoch is weird concerning a non-human fictional character. Like, you'll never engage with Birdo's presumed sex junk, the other characters likely'll never engage with Birdo's (or their own) sex junk, and there'll likely be no canonical implication of conflict in relation to presumed sex junk, so why refer to this presented female character with male (or even neutral) pronouns except to perpetuate your real-world excuses for imposing on others your own incapability to cope with identity?
@TJF588 : As opposed to your incapability of coping with reality?
@Silly_G — Reality is, how you regard an individual, especially one whose relevant "reality" is of no material consequence to your engagement with said individual, should be based on their identity, not on base categorization of gonads. As you meandered, pronouns are a societal matter (else we would address entities by their relevant characteristics, such as "Caucasian male human"), so how an individual acts within a society dictates with what language they are regarded.
It's really very simply: Birdo's a woman, so we call her "she".
Tap here to load 144 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...