Soapbox: Alex And Dom Discuss If Dark Souls Will Really Work On Switch

I think it will. Its reputation and its lower price will help with sales a lot. So lots of people will try it.

It's also a gameplay-focused game. Like a lot Nintendo first party games. The only question is whether it's visual style will put people off.

Of course it will work, I'm not seeing how it wouldn't. As for if I'm going to pick it up... Maybe. I prefer offline stuff but Darksouls seems to benefit a lot from the online.

I do wonder if there is a three tiered ownership of the Switch: those that haven't really ever played a Nintendo system but like the idea of trying BOTW and buying Doom and Skyrim that they already played on the one of the other consoles, those that have been hardcore Ninty fans that are going to buy every first party releases, and the stuff that resembles Nintendo stuff, and those that buy every game released on the thing only to put half of them in a draw with the shrink wrap still on the packaging.

I'm in the 2nd group, although I did buy Skyrim and LA Noire out of cuiousity but won't buy Darksouls after hating Bloodborne. Not sure how much other PS4/XB1 style stuff I may try as it isn't really my thing.

Can anyone give me a reason why any particular game wouldn't work on Switch?

That, or bury this redundant topic.

I can’t see how it won’t work. The benefit of Switch is you can play it however you want, and the multiplayer lite Dark Souls won’t be missing much if it’s played offline on the go. Also, let’s clear this up: Dom keeps saying the bonfires are like save points. They’re not. They’re SAFE points, but the game autosaves constantly. With the home button to suspend it and the autosaving, this game is perfect for on the go play. You can drop it any time and pick up basically where you left off.

My wife specifically plays offline because she hates being invaded by other players. There was one point in Bloodborne where she was invaded pretty much back to back for a solid half hour when all she wanted to do was complete the level. After that she was done with the online components of souls.

@Fazermint Any game that requires an always online connection would have difficulty taking advantage of Switch’s portability. Removing the online from Dark Souls has hardly any effect on that game though.

@Oblique Sure, what I’m saying is that as a game, not having access to those online components in Dark Souls doesn’t significantly detract from the experience. It’s largely a solo game anyway.

I almost never like games known for how hard they are and usually boss fights are the part I enjoy the least in action adventure games. I also already have fantasy games I like on Switch and more are to come so I'm pretty sure this one is not for me

I was wondering when this video would go up on the main site. I posted it in the Dark Souls forum thread a few days ago. I'll be interested to see how well this sells because so far apart from Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle which is a collaboration, 3rd party sales have generally been poor.

Dark Souls is like the ending of Dr Strange, you died and you kept coming back until you win. Games like that are best played while lying down, because it can be a while before you progress ( also it lowers your blood-pressure). So Switch in portable mode will definitely be the best way to play.

I have no doubt that the game is going to do well on the console. It’s a fantastic game, grittier than what we’re used to seeing on a Nintendo console, but a fantastic game never the less. I don’t really see how this topic is relevant to anything at all and why there would be doubt as to whether or not this is going to do well..?

@NoxAeturnus Dragon Quest X says hi.

Gonna be trying this out for the first time on Switch. Can't wait.

@Fazermint Power? Whether or not the audience is there? Perception of console which ties in with audience? Don't be so condescending.

"Games not working on my sacred handheld?! Preposterous!" What of the list of games not coming to Switch otherwise? Do you condemn those developers now? Capcom with Monster Hunter World? Take 2 with Red Dead? Ubisoft with most likely Beyond Good and Evil 2?

Personally I don't have the reaction time for Souls games, but if I'd buy it, it'd be on PC with 60 FPS. My Switch is a Nintendo machine and for games that PC doesn't get for whatever perplex-able reason.

Any game that could lead to a smashed Switch is not a good fit for the system in my book. Maybe they'll add a handholding mode as Nintendo seems to like making games easier these days.

@SanderEvers As with every third-party multiplat, and indeed with every game on the system: Portability is the primary, if not SOLE reason for purchase.

why wouldnt? another filler since there is nothing new to write about

Well, if it's a functioning Switch cartridge- or you buy it digitally on the eShop- then I have to assume that yes, it will work on the Switch. It probably won't work if it's for a different system though.

You are talking about whether it will be a good fit or not. I am just wondering if it is going to run properly or not

People would rather play the fat plumber games, not expecting great sales but i am still buying dark souls. Will it run correctly on switch, i don't expect much so I won't be disappointed if it doesn't and a bonus if it's OK. Tbh i expect most big 3rd party games to be picked apart just to fit them on switch

Of course it will work, it's Dark Souls for crying out loud. The game is hard but incredibly rewarding to get through.

@MrGawain dark souls and bloodborne are 2 completely different games. Blood borne rewards you for being aggressive. Dark souls punishes you for it. Very different gameplay experiences. I don’t like bloodborne, but logged over 1500 hours of dark souls 1 alone. Top 5 best games I’ve ever played.

I can’t wait for dark souls. It’s ruined me for enjoying any other game now that I know it’s realy coming out this spring.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I’m not so sure third party games sell poorly on the Switch.
FIFA sold most of the initial shipment and EA is reportedly very satisfied with its sales.
Dragonball Xenoverse has been constantly selling so well that most shipments sell out in just a few days.
As far as I know, both Skyrim and Doom have sold well enough considering the install base and being games that a great number of people already owned on other systems.
So, third party games aren’t selling millions upon millions, but sales are far from being poor.

I’m a sucker with difficult games but I’m getting it anyway because I really like the visual style and setting and my friends are constantly recommending it.
I don’t think I’m going to like being invaded and killed constantly by other players so probably I’ll turn off the online and play solo.

Shouldn't the question be,

"DOESN'T Dark Souls Belong On Switch?"

If anything, Nintendo needs to build up as much 3rd party support as they can, because... Well, it should go without saying, but 3rd party sales that don't involve highly popular franchises like Dragon Ball tend to suck compared to 1st party sales on Nintendo's platforms. Yes, 3rd parties line the digital charts- and exactly how much did everything sell there? No one is telling. But sure ain't the millions (or 100s of thousands, in most cases) that Nintendo's 1st party products sell.

So yeah, diversifying the ecosystem as much as possible is key for the Switch's overall health and longevity. There's a 1st party drought going on right now for instance, it should be filled with 3rd party offerings, such as... Oh, hm, I seem to have forgotten one of the possibilities... Something involving Dark shadows and turbid Souls... huh, well, I'm sure the name will come to me...

@maruse Except Dragon Ball and FIFA are hugely popular franchises, so of course Xenoverse 2 has sold over half a million copies and FIFA on Switch has sold as well as it can, or at least in Europe and Japan... Any examples of particularly high-selling 3rd party titles that aren't based on highly popular franchises?

For FIFA in particular:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-10-02-fifa-18-takes-no-1-three-out-of-five-copies-sold-on-ps4

https://mynintendonews.com/2018/01/16/japan-fifa-18-on-nintendo-switch-has-officially-overtaken-fifa-18-sales-on-ps4/

Switch is showing it's dominance in Japan already, meanwhile elsewhere FIFA sales account for single digit percentages of sales on Switch, with the vast majority going towards PS4, then XB1 afterwards.

@Enigk Anyone who smashes a controller, gaming system, or other expensive electronic device because they can't control their emotional response to what's happening in a digital environment, isn't mature enough to have those things.

It won’t work because it hurts trying f to go back and play after spending so much time with the better Bloodborne

What a spammy and nonsense article. Why shouldn't Dark Souls work on Switch? It's not like a 3DS game, with heavy use of twin screen features are getting ported over.

And no, I won't be watching the video as usual. Esp when there is a risk of a crap Alex joke...

@PlywoodStick I'm not sure we should be comparing 3rd party sales to Nintendo's 1st party efforts. We're experiencing a lot of ports on Switch right now. Can anyone reasonably expect the Doom port to pull Mario Odyssey numbers? If 3rd parties are happy with their sales, that's good enough as far as I'm concerned. You're right that we don't know whether or not these games are reaching the sales expectations of the 3rd party publishers, but I also think that those publishers probably have more reasonable expectations for sales figures than the average gamer.

@NoxAeturnus Eh... it depends. Like Mario Party 1-3 back in the N64 heyday when I was a kid, I smashed the hell out of those cartridges and controllers. (And most of them survived!) Because after a 50 turn single player round was about to end with me in the lead, then in the last few turns, the CPU lands on chance time and steals EVERY star... That kind of thing flipped a switch in me that hadn't existed previously in other games. Even games like The Lost Levels never frustrated me anywhere near that much, up to that point in time. There's something about when success is absolutely bound to elements of chance, manipulated by either an algorithm or an unseen hand, that a sense of profound unfairness can trigger a strong emotional response in people.

There's a difference between something just plain being difficult, and something being seemingly (or actually) rigged after putting in time and effort into it. In any case, kids shouldn't even be given fragile electronics in the first place, they should be given ones which can take a beating.

@PlywoodStick nothing unfair about Dark Souls though. If you fail, it's 100% your fault (not counting invasions).

@NoxAeturnus That's a little harsh. Not everyone can control their rage after 200 times of trying to beat something. I'm not saying I would. I started Dark Souls on Xbox360 and gave up and turned it off about 4 hours in after getting about half an hour through the game. I still have a SNES controller with my friend's teeth marks in it after repeatedly getting beaten by level 8 Vega on Super Street Fighter II Turbo back in the day.

@PlywoodStick Whether or not the game is unfair, if someone can't control their emotional response well enough to not destroy the thing, they're not mature enough to have that thing. I agree that children should be given things that can take a beating, because they're still learning and developing that emotional maturity. I'm not saying that children shouldn't play Switch, I'm saying that children may require supervision (as normal) with expensive electronics because of their lack of maturity, or else a broken device provides an expensive learning experience.

As for adults... if you smash your electronics because you can't handle your emotional response, you're not mature enough for those electronics.

@Enigk Nope, not too harsh at all. I didn't say people didn't deserve to have those things, I said they're not mature enough to have them. The right to purchase and own something, and the maturity to own something responsibly are two different things.

@MrGawain While it is completely your decision, you shouldn't base your opinion on Dark Souls on having played and hated Bloodborne. Bloodborne does not in any way play like Dark Souls, nor is it an experience that even comes close to the glory of the Souls trilogy. This may sound like I'm hating on Bloodborne and glorifying Dark Souls, but it's just the simple truth. They bear different names, and as such they are different game series that play differently. That, and the fact that Dark Souls does not have guns just makes it even better.

This wasn't meant to make you reconsider, incase that's how it sounded. I just wanted to point out that basing your opinion on the Souls series on your experience with Bloodborne is like saying you don't like Marabou chocolate because you ate some Lindt chocolate and didn't like it. Don't mind the low quality of my example, I just ate chocolate and I lack creativity right now.

@NoxAeturnus One of the whole reasons why publishers/developers went outside of Nintendo platforms ever since the 80's/90's in the first place is because competing against Nintendo's 1st party products is inevitable on their platforms. It's impossible to avoid comparing 3rd party to 1st party sales on Nintendo's platforms.

As for DOOM in particular:

https://rectifygaming.com/dooms-pc-sales-figures-announced/
https://steamspy.com/app/379720

So over 500k sales in the first month of release on Steam alone, with over 2.5 million owners and nearly 2.4 million players (people who own and have actually played the game) to date. (Which also means there's over 100k people who bought DOOM and haven't played it yet...) Compared to the NS version, it's difficult to find all the numbers since Bethesda isn't releasing digital sales numbers, however, industry insider John Harker has mentioned that DOOM sales on Switch reached around 60k @ retail back in November:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/npd-november-2017-call-of-duty-ww2-1-sw-ps4-1-hw.11227/page-48

http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?topic=5895.0

(Also worth noting that Skyrim on Switch surpassed 100k sales in November)

https://www.resetera.com/threads/npd-november-2017-call-of-duty-ww2-1-sw-ps4-1-hw.11227/page-29

For what it's worth, John Harker also revealed the Nintendo Direct date over a week before it went live:

http://vgculturehq.com/january-nintendo-direct-rumored-for-the-11th-according-industry-insiders/

What all of this means is that 3rd parties can potentially do relatively well on Switch... But for that to happen, it usually takes either star power, a good bit of fortune, or a big publisher backing the product. Yes, DOOM and Skyrim are relatively old games by now, but the fact is that even big names from 3rd parties will rarely ever (IF ever) perform anywhere near as well as Nintendo's big guns on their platforms, whereas on other platforms like PC, it's a whole other story.

@PhilKenSebben I agree! I was just saying there's a difference between something like Dark Souls and something like Mario Party when the CPU's RNG is involved.

@NoxAeturnus How do you react when you get frustrated at a video game or even in real life? You only learn maturity by being given responsibility such as taking care of an expensive console.

If third parties didn't perform well on the system then they wouldn't put out any more games for the system. Nintendo has the best first and second party games. Other systems rely on more third party to help them. Besides third parties are doing well. Nintendo switch has an energetic base that are willing to get these third party and indie games for the advantage to take on the go.

Of course it'll work, the only question is will it be good enough so consumer would want to buy it for Switch.

@NoxAeturnus Agreed for adults, upper teenagers and above should be able to internalize or talk about their feelings rather than lashing out. For children, I think something like a 2/3DS is more appropriate than a Switch. They can use a Switch at home, but otherwise, not out in public without some bulky protection.

@Enigk I agree, that's how you learn maturity and responsibility. And if you break said console, you were not mature enough for it and have learned an expensive lesson that hopefully translates to caring better for your next one.

@Enigk @NoxAeturnus There was a cooking tournament minigame on Star Ocean: Second Story back in the day, which completely relied on luck... Got through it until last round, then BOOM! Failure. I smashed my PS1 like I did the N64... Didn't turn out so well... That PS1 is dead now. Didn't do that ever again from PS2 onwards...

Award for toughest console goes to the N64 though! My first one is STILL alive after repeated beatings! Granted, it uh... displays a literal blood red tint for EVERY game now when it's used... ◎_◎

@PlywoodStick Agree on the appropriateness of Switch for children. Depends on the child, but for the most part you're right.

I totally see what you're saying about the sales of Doom and 3rd parties in general on Switch. I'm just less curious about the numbers in relation to other games on the system, and more curious about the numbers in relation to the publisher's expectations. When they developed Doom for Switch, did they expect Switch to have sold as many units as it did as fast as it did? Nintendo didn't, so I can't imagine 3rd party sales projections were based on the install base we're seeing right now. It's tough to get at because no one's talking, as you said, but those are the numbers I'm more interested in seeing, because whether or not the total numbers look good, if they meet or beat the expectations the publisher had that might still encourage more games from that publisher.

Not trying to be rude, but I don't think there should be a video topic like this at all. Any games that wasn't on the Nintendo platform originally and is going to be on the Switch or in the future consoles is a good idea. Even that badly optimized WWE game that some people expected it to be good.

As for how DS will run on the Switch, can people be patient and wait before judging? It's coming out not too long and I'm sure there will be gameplay videos shown. For now, it's too early to have an in depth look at a teaser.

yeah, I want to know if Dark Soul 4 will work on Switch.

Basically Nintendo is pointing out that PlayStation has had tons of good games - we know and played them.

I will give them a point for taking out the Nintendo Tax. They also learning they can't sell old PS3 games at $60 dollars.

@Agramonte From Software has said that they have no plans for Dark Souls 4 and are essentially done with the series for now.

@NoxAeturnus What the total sales comparisons do prove, however, is that in many cases, 3rd parties necessarily have to go in with lower expectations on Nintendo's platforms than on others. As you said, even Nintendo themselves have low expectations for 3rd parties on their own platforms- probably much lower than others would have on theirs.

This can be a good thing in a way for indies, because it means if you're approved (in whatever strange and archaic way Nintendo handles it), then you don't need to worry as much about meeting minimum thresholds. For larger publishers, however, they're probably a lot more cautious about this prospect- certainly the DOOM and Skyrim ports were risks that just so happened to pay off decently, especially considering they were sold at full price, while being half off or less everywhere else by the time the Switch ports arrived. Not everyone will have Bethesda's/Panic Button's fortune, though. Hopefully Dark Souls Remastered will also pay off for FromSoftware/Namco-Bandai. I'm not holding my breath on cross-platform play, but as long as the NS version gets multiplayer functionality, I think it's going to have a significant audience!

Personally don’t see why people write articles like well this work on switch...
Of course it will! Remember that it is a console!
It’s not like we say will dark souls work for PS4 or Xbox one?!
Yes it has portability, but that’s the great thing if you don’t like it portable just hook it to your tv! Problem solved.
A better question or article would be how well will dark souls sell on switch, will there be a consumer base for it? Or will we get the full trilogy?

Dark Souls has an easy mode, it’s called Summoning.

@MFD there’s no need to say @fazermint is “being condescending”
As that’s his opinion, you can have your reply without incendiary comments like that.

@MisterMan Not being literal - Whatever they call it or shape it comes in. Everyone knew what Blood Born on PS4 was.

Topics like these need to die a painful death. I swear that you only see these discussions when it comes to Nintendo, and it’s sort of embarrassing. As a multi-console owner, do you know what sort of game doesn’t fit on any given console? The game that was never released.

The Souls series has sold millions worldwide, has a dedicated fan base, and will fit the Switch perfectly. In fact, had this been a launch title, I would have bought a Switch for this game over Breath of the Wild (I love that game as well, but prefer DS).

Seriously, though, we need to stop the silliness of only wanting certain types of games on this awesome console! The more varied the library, the more varied the fan base. It’s time for people who aren’t Nintemdo loyalists to start seeing Nintendo consoles as not an alternative/secondary option.

Since Dragon Ball Z Xenoverse 2 performed well in sales, plus on the Switch, I think Namco Bandai is proving understanding of the Switch platform.

A game like Dark Souls belong on the Switch. I've never played it, but if the gameplay is similar to Skyrim, it should fit in well. We will find out by May. I know I'll grab it for $39.99.

@Fazermint Technical reasons, which is only going to become more exacerbated over time until the inevitable console upgrade is released. Granted, that's not a problem for Dark Souls Remastered in particular.

@Deathwalka "Redundant topic" sounds quite condescending to me. Something wrong with wondering if a game has an audience for Switch, if it'll sell and be appreciated there? Or is Switch this sacred holy grail that has any and all games do well regardless?

Also, that hooking up bit? I mean it's form-factor being a tablet means it's objectively worse to other versions like on PS4/Xbox One, so that's hardly the mode people should care about, now is it?

The only way I see Dark Souls not working is if/when I inevitably smash my Joy Cons into dust during the Ornstein/Smaugh battle. Beyond that, it’s time we get to praising the sun!

@Donutman Dark Souls doesn’t punish you for being aggressive, it punishes you for being careless. You can be crazy aggressive and still be successful if you know what you’re doing.

Spoilers... I rarely know what I’m doing.

@BanjoPickles Then Nintendo needs to start seeing it as not a secondary option. They hate competition, and are happy to hear Sony say that the Switch is nice IN ADDITION TO the PS4.

This isn't on the people playing the Switch, this is what Nintendo wants.

@electrolite77 It attracts near unilateral support on account of it being handheld alone, when it comes to Japan. I don't think you'd need to worry about that.

Every multiplat will sell off of portability, unless it's indie, since those will be just about the same version.

@PlywoodStick Yes, this is true. That's why we see more ports and fewer risky propositions like new IPs or release parity aside from system specs as a barrier. They already said cross-platform was a no-go for everyone with DS:Remastered. I too expect it will do fine on Switch, and as a tie in joke, I would say to any game developer who thinks they can't compete with Nintendo, "Git Gud."

@BanjoPickles Spot on Banjo Pickles. Spot on.

@Kalmaro I would argue that it works better offline. When playing online, all the secrets and upcoming bonfires are spoiled by user messages, which takes some mystery out of the game. It has its upsides, but I actually played most of Bloodborne and DS3 offline to get a pure experience.

@MFD

I don’t think it’s that Nintendo hates competition. I think that Nintendo probably sees that there is a bit of tunnel vision when it comes to technology. Development costs are skyrocketing, while gameplay itself hasn’t really evolved all that much from two generations ago, for the most part. Why are companies suddenly incorporating microtransactions into their titles? I’m sure that it has a great deal to do with recouping the insane costs of developing those AAA titles. If you look at the industry as a whole, it’s in trouble. Companies are dying off, or transitioning to mobile (Konami), or simply aren’t as prolific as they once were (Capcom). Breath of the Wild took a long time to get to us, but I guarantee that it didn’t cost nearly as much to develop as Star Wars Battlefront II.

Nintendo themselves are making the right decisions, this time around. It’s really up to third parties, and Nintendo’s own fan base, to embrace the console as more than simply a device for first party software. The hybrid nature allows games from last generation to feel like new titles, simply because they are now untethered and can be taken anywhere. I think that the ratio of new games (Mega Man 11, Bayonetta 3, Travis Strikes Back, Rabbids and Mario, Xenoblade 2) balances out the rereleases (Dark Souls, Skyrim, Doom).

Nintendo, I believe, is trying to maintain a sustainable model.

@BanjoPickles Portability is an asset for more sales, and for it, power has been compromised. Power will have your game run better (assuming it is used and optimized for), will have the console that has it run the latest games. Portability merely caters to people's selfish desire for convenience.

Portability is a step backwards. People are already accepting faults on Switch games due to it. Before long, buggy and poorly optimized games are all we'll get.

I can’t see any reason why most games wouldn’t work on the Switch. Of course there will be graphical sacrifices but I wrote an article recently about how playability is STILL the most important factor in whether a game is any good. It can look as beautiful as you like, look as realistic as you like but if the game doesn’t play well it simply doesn’t matter about the rest of it in my opinion.
Dark Souls will be great and is another franchise that will not only be great to play on the big screen, but also a fabulous game on the move. After all, the fact you can take brilliance on the go is one of the Switch’s biggest draws.

I see no reason why GTA V, Star Wars Battlefront and the like can’t come to Switch. They may be expensive due to limited storage but the fact is that Nintendo have made the Switch simple to design games for and to port to, WWE 18 being a very rare experience of this not being case but that is down to sheer laziness from the developers rather than any issues with the console itself.

Dark Souls is just one game in what is a growing pantheon of framing greatness on Nintendo’s wonderful hybrid. Bring on the big guns!!

@Baldspur well said my good sir

@maruse you see when publishers say they very happy with software sales on switch. Well @SLIGEACH_EIRE ignores that and instead claims sales are poor.

Remember this is the guy that claimed namco were lying when they said initial shipment of dragon ball sold out. Again he claimed sales were not good enough.

500,000 sales later and the rest is history.

@NoxAeturnus Why would a constant online connection hamper it's usability on the Switch?

@Nintendoforlife What I said is that a game that requires an online connection would have difficulty taking advantage of Switch's portability. Switch doesn't have a mobile data plan, and while you could take advantage of hotspots, you'd have to constantly be swapping networks if you were moving around at all, or you'd have to rely on tethering from your mobile device, which is still not the most convenient solution. Specifically regarding Dark Souls, I also mentioned that not having access to those always online features doesn't significantly detract from the game because it's largely a solo experience anyway.

Edit: Sorry about the multiple posts, the page wasn't loading and I foolishly hit the reply button several times. I hope I deleted all the duplicates...

@electrolite77 That's true, and people will buy multiplats for other machines when it comes to that, and they do not use portability. But that isn't an option for Nintendo's games. I can't select that I'm playing docked so it magically makes these compromises disappear, now can I?

The dock, is merely a converter and barely does anything for the Switch. It may as well be a regular tablet kick-stand with the bit of technology strapped behind that with some ducttape and sold for 35

@hiptanaka That's an interesting point, I never considered spoilers.

@MFD
That's a biased view in every way. When it comes to "compromises", playing Dark Souls in 1080p docked with a satisfactory framerate (as long as it's not running like a slideshow then it's fine) is practically the exact same thing as playing it in 1080p and 60fps on a PS4 or X1. The benefit seen on other systems is negligible at best- extra frames are an unnecessary luxury if the game is already running smoothly, and it's the exact same resolution. Yeah it'll look a little better, it'll run a little smoother, but we're talking the difference between 100% and 95%. For anyone with a rational mind set, it's a non issue.

And the reason it's a non issue is what you get in return. No more spending an extra $200-250 on a Vita/3DS, then $100 per game to play anywhere. No cross save needed, no 240p resolution... none of that. You're getting the actual console experience... as a handheld game, in addition to a console experience that's 95% as good as elsewhere.

Now. If that's not of interest to you or to someone else- if that $40-50 extra value of getting 3 versions in 1 with automatic cross save is worth less in your eyes than an already smoothly running game running slightly smoother... then by all means, there are like 3 other options where you can buy your games at. Best to just accept that that's what you're going to do, and do it.

There are compromises on both ends. The question is which compromise do you prefer? Do you prefer a game which already runs at 1080p and already runs smoothly to jump from 95% to 100% at the expense of 2 out of 3 additional versions to play and enjoy, or visa versa? Cause I see a built in handheld version as an additional $40 value right off the bat, and that's at 3DS fidelity. I definitely don't see an increased framerate for a game already running smooth to be worth anywhere near an extra $40.

Labeling things as "selfish" is disingenuous. Either you selfishly want a game to look 5% better or you selfishly want that game to come with 3 versions in 1 for the same price. Of course it's all selfishness- personal luxury hobbies are built on it. But who are you to say selfishly wanting 3 versions in 1 for your money is worse than selfishly wanting a game to look 5% better?

How about you get whatever version you want, and we will respect your desires, and you let others get what they want... but stop judging and condescending toward others for their preferences. There is no right or wrong answer here. I'll be damned if we need a 4th option to give us the exact same thing we can already get on three other consoles. I and many others here value a slightly less good looking game (and I do mean slight- I can't even tell a difference unless you had an analysis video running side-by-side, even then half the time I can't even tell) if it means getting 3 times as much game for your money, which equals at least twice the satisfaction thanks to playing it twice as often and curing boredom when you normally wouldn't.

So tired of people acting like a hybrid version of the game is objectively inferior. If it's not what you want, then don't buy it! That simple. But get off the high horse before you do so. A lot of people enjoy the hybrid versions of games. People who have perfectly fine options that look and run better. And yet they still choose the hybrid version.

I think it's absolute insanity to buy a game that looks 5% better and get 1/3 as much game for your money. I value games that look better and I value games that run better, but I don't value them that much. But what's important is I don't go telling all the PS4 gamers how inferior their version is. I don't go into the Xbox community and preach to everyone how they're flushing their money down the toilet. Is that how I feel? Yes. It is. But if that's what they want to do I will respect it because I understand not everyone is like me. Is it truly too much to ask the same of you?

@NoxAeturnus Again I don't see why that would be a negative. Every other game console stays inside your house, and you play online games mostly at your house. So why wouldn't the same situation apply to the switch?

@Nintendoforlife The same situation does apply to Switch. My comment was that always online games don't lend themselves nicely to being portable, which is a major feature of the system. Other systems don't have to worry about that, but portability is a big selling point on Switch. An always online connection would be a bigger deal for a game on Switch than another system, even though you could absolutely enjoy such a game in a home setting without issue.

@JaxonH "That's a biased view in every way. When it comes to "compromises", playing Dark Souls in 1080p docked with a satisfactory framerate (as long as it's not running like a slideshow then it's fine) is practically the exact same thing as playing it in 1080p and 60fps on a PS4 or X1."

There are people who were ecstatic for the Switch release.... until they heard it was 30 FPS, so yes, it does matter for a certain amount of people.

"The benefit seen on other systems is negligible at best- extra frames are an unnecessary luxury if the game is already running smoothly, and it's the exact same resolution."

You buy practically all your games on Switch right? Play Dragonball Xenoverse 2 in the regular multiple vs multiple mode, then do training that's 1vs1, experience the power of 60 FPS, then come back here and speak to me again.

"How about you get whatever version you want, and we will respect your desires, and you let others get what they want... but stop judging and condescending toward others for their preferences."

That's the problem with this "hybrid" approach. Your version compromises on MY version. Your want for portability, means my docked version functions less than it could've done. They're 100% linked and Nintendo didn't bother to provide any way to negate or reduce those compromises.

"So tired of people acting like a hybrid version of the game is objectively inferior. If it's not what you want, then don't buy it! That simple. But get off the high horse before you do so. "

It is objectively inferior, just watch ALL the comparisons that prove it. That and portability is preferential. Power can ALWAYS be put to good use, either for graphics, frame-rates or whatever else.

"Is it truly too much to ask the same of you?" I'm trying to get some equality for that mode that gets used, but ignored and excused never the less. I want my docked games WITHOUT compromise because it's linked to a handheld, oh wait, no, it's a tablet.

@NoxAeturnus Ok, ok I believe I understand what you're saying. What you're saying is an online connection may deter people from buying the game due to their use of their switch in mobile settings correct?

@Nintendoforlife Yes. Switch users who value portability may pass on such a game because it will not provide a smooth experience for the way they use their system. Switch owners who primarily use the console at home won't notice the difference. I don't think the number of people who use Switch as a portable at least part of the time is insignificant, so an always online game has a decent size hurdle it would need to jump. But for Dark Souls, I don't see that being a problem.

@MFD

1 And that's fine. If a person has a problem with 30 FPS then I have to question how they ever played the games in the first place (since they were 30fps). Funny how it's not a problem when it's on other systems but it suddenly becomes a problem when it's Switch. Watch all the people who play MH World at 25fps without issue, then turn around and blast a game on Switch for being less than 60. But, if a person truly has issue with 30, then fine. Buy another version.

2 I own every system that exists. I know full well what games look like on other systems. I played Skyrim on Xbox One X, PS4 and PS4 Pro. But the Switch version is plenty good enough. Dragonball Xenoverse 2 is plenty good enough. LA Noire is plenty good enough. Nobody is claiming those games don't look and/or run better. It's not a question of superior performance. It's a question of, is marginally superior performance truly worth an extra $40 or $50 like getting 3 versions in 1 of a game is? I'd argue, not even close. If I had to rate my enjoyment on a scale of 1 to 10, played the Switch version on a TV then played the PS4 version on a TV, I'm willing to be the number would barely increase by 1 (the only exception would be is if the game was so atrocious it was unplayable or unenjoyable).

3 Your version is not compromised any more than the PS4/X1 version is compromised. You just happen to not not value what you gain in return. And if that's the case then you should've never bought the system because you know damn well from the start it wasn't as powerful. If you want a game that looks and runs like the PS4 version... then you need to go buy a PS4. Don't buy a 3DS and then complain Monster Hunter doesn't look as good as the Wii U. They didn't deceive you when they sold you a Switch. YOU KNEW this is what they are offering. Some people will value it and some people won't. You don't see me going out and buying the PS4 version and saying "but they compromised MY version! Why can't I play it on the go?!!!" Cause I knew dang well what the PS4 offered before I bought it.

4 It's objectively inferior with regard to specific metrics only, such as performance. With regard to other metrics, like value for money, playability, percentage of the day it's accessible to be enjoyed... the others versions are objectively inferior.

Which is my entire point. Can't cherry pick 2 metrics and pretend superiority with regard to those specific metrics = superiority overall. Because there are even more metrics which the Switch version is objectively superior. Which one is overall objectively superior is a matter of preference in a matter of what a person values. This is what the Switch is. Games will NEVER match the other versions with regard to metrics of performance and visual fidelity. So get over it already. Or just sell your Switch, buy another console and be done with it. Because clearly the other consoles are offering what you want. I suggest you go make an eBay listing today and sell your switch. Let somebody buy it who actually appreciates it and enjoys it.

@NoxAeturnus That's a fair point, we don't really know how many people are using it almost exclusively mobile. Then again you look at Rocket League which is really a game you only enjoy online, and you see it's popularity was fairly large on the switch. Its been top 5/10 in sales ever since it came out. Of course these companies will send out surveys to get detailed info on how people play their switch. But just taking RL's sample, it seems like the right game will sell well regardless of online needs.

@JaxonH 1. We're talking about people that play on PC for 60 FPS, and skips consoles in that regard.

2. These games are playable, but in certain cases more FPS is simply better, much like how one does not put RTS games on a console, so too does one target 60 FPS in a fighter, and take enough with 30 when it comes to turn-based.

3. I already buy multiplats for my PC, but I've not a lot of choice when it comes to Nintendo's games, now do I? We didn't know what the dock did at first, now did we? Should I have expected Nintendo to skimp that hard and make an 80% plastic stand that does nothing meaningful that an HDMI cable can't do?

4. As I've said, portability is subjectively of use to you, power can always be applied to a game you like in a meaningful way, especially on Switch (Since it simply isn't as powerful as a stationary console). If all the Switch multiplatform games performed at least as well in the performance department (not graphics) then I'd say "Sure, I'll get it on Switch".

Meh I just don’t know what to think. What is the main goal of this game? And no not everyone has played skyrim. I haven’t but I’ve just recently purchased it. Busy with xenoblade so no idea when I’ll start.

I'm sure I'll give this game a go eventually, but the gameplay looks as dull as dish water to me.

FYI NL; I've not played Skyrim.

@MFD
"Skimp that hard"? They didn't skimp anything. The console is the handheld unit itself. You're lucky they included the dock at all and not just the cable to plug it in with!

And if you're already buying it on PC then what are you complaining about? Get it on PC and be happy.

Portability most definitely is subjectively of use to me... me and a ton of others, just like marginally better performance is of subjective use to you. Most people say as long is the game runs smooth then it's good enough. As long as the car goes 120 miles an hour I don't need it to go 500. And they'd rather have a boat + car + plane than 1 single car that goes 500mph.

There are systems out there for everyone. If performance is what matters to you, then buy it on a console that offers performance. If playability and access is what matters to you, then buy it on a console that offers play anywhere and anytime. It's really not hard. There is nothing to be complaining about here (as if it could suddenly make the system more powerful anyways). Accept it and move on and let's start talking about games, not how "inferior they are compared to X, Y and Z". That tripe gets old.

@JaxonH "Portability most definitely is subjectively of use to me... me and a ton of others, just like marginally better performance is of subjective use to you. Most people say as long is the game runs smooth then it's good enough. As long as the car goes 120 miles an hour I don't need it to go 500. And they'd rather have a boat + car + plane than 1 single car that goes 500mph."

So then why are we not offered the choice to go for either or? I'm forced to live with the consequences of many others wanting portability. Where's the fairness in that?

"There are systems out there for everyone. If performance is what matters to you then buy it on a console that offers performance. If play ability and access is what matters to you then buy it on a console that offers play anywhere and anytime. It's really not hard. There is nothing to be complaining about here (as if it could suddenly make the system more powerful anyways). Except it and move on and let's start talking about games, not how "inferior they are compared to X, Y and Z". That tripe gets old."

Sure, have Nintendo bring those awesome games that are lodged into my childhood as being awesome to PC, and you'll never see me complain ever again. But since we both know that won't happen, I'll just advocate that Nintendo should make the docked mode a more legitimate experience. It's not like it's impossible to make it have parity with PS4/Xbox One base models at least.

Make it a separate product that people can buy if they want, like that supplemental computing device. People who worship portability as the 2nd coming of gaming, can just buy a base Switch and be happy, and people that want the extra performance AT LEAST have an option to actually get that. Everyone's happy.

@Nintendoforlife Yeah sure, I respect that. The right game with heavy online components can certainly find an install base on Switch. However, Rocket League can still technically be played offline (even if most people get it for the online play), and it can also be played via local multiplayer on Switch. I was thinking more of things like Overwatch, which I don't think we'll ever see for this exact reason.

@JaxonH hitting us with the knowledge ey!
Well said, it’s such a good point when you say it how you did...
That you are not only paying for a console game with switch, but also a portable one.
It’s so true, I personally think all a games are better on the switch as of the hybrid gameplay options we have.

@MFD
So then why are we not offered the choice to go for either or? I'm forced to live with the consequences of many others wanting portability. Where's the fairness in that?

Uhh... you are. You've got three different platforms to choose from if you want the one, and you've got one platform to choose if you want the other. You are not forced to live with anything! You have a choice to either buy a console that provides performance, or buy a console that provides play anywhere. Your. Choice.

And fairness? This isn't an equal rights movement, it's the free market. Companies go where there is demand. The market is already saturated for power consoles. There is no place in the market for a fourth option. Meanwhile, there are ZERO options for portable hybrid play... Until now. And you want the ONE PLATFORM offering that to the people who want it, to stop what they're doing, go make a power console because YOU PERSONALLY want them to??? What the **** is fair about that???

Oh. And then they go bankrupt because nobody wants a fourth power console in the market and then you get ZERO third-party games. And then you're back on this very same website complaining that you're not getting the games the other consoles are getting. What the heck is wrong with your thinking dude???

It's the free market, and they don't "have" to make squat. They have tried almost every approach in the book with minimal success. They have now found success along with a product people like, feeding a demand in the market that is not met by any other device.

Buy it or don't. But don't go complaining that their hybrid system which so many others love doesn't suit your personal fancy, then have the gall to talk about selfishness and fairness.

Unreal... But even if you want to believe such misguided, fantastically unrealistic selfish thoughts, I'm not going to stop you. But we don't need to hear about it every time a third-party game comes to the system.

@JaxonH Talk about overreacting. You're acting as if I'm putting a weapon to your head, calm down lad.

All I'm asking is that they equalize the modes via an external way that doesn't cost you JACK.

Also you're acting like a D right now. Calm the fluff down and then come back here for some proper discussing.

@JaxonH dude you won’t convinve others who already have that mindset, like you said that their opinion.
I also do not understand when they talk about the “compromises” as these “compromises” are tiny! I never understood the drama over 60fps dropping to 30fps, as the game still plays the same as in its playable!
The only compromises I have seen is devs who have not done enough to make sure the games are fully compatible for the switch which can cause these so called compromises.
But seriously your posts were a great read and I wish more people had that mindset but as we know that’s never going to be a thing but at the very least we can respect each other’s views without belittling as you said.

@Kalmaro
Never had any online encounters and finished 3 of 5 souls games )

Quite awesome its gonna be ported - dark souls is definitely a great game that will enhance the switch library. Personally I am not into those dark and gritty games (doom, skyrim etc.) so I will give it a pass

@Deathwalka

I just wanna talk about the games. I don't care if a person values certain metrics over others. To each their own. But when they start pronouncing their favored metrics as "objectively superior" to your favored metrics, complaining the system wasn't designed to leverage their own personal preference... it aggravates me to no end. Just buy the version you want and lets move on. If Switch ain't doing it for ya, sell it. Idk what else to say.

@JaxonH
Hmm there are ZERO choices for hybrid gaming until now

I know you know that isn't true, we have chatted before about JXD & GPD XD, yep both hybrids and on the market before ninty's hardware, plus there are others

Spreading false info isn't good for the soul, a Dark Soul

Yeah yeah yeah blah blah, but, but Nintendo made it mainstream, regardless false info is a dark place, it effects others that might believe it

It's that Fanboy thing again you got going on

@JaxonH im exactly the same, I too can accept others opinions until they start crapping on others views in a negative, pompous or condescending manner, not to say anyone’s been like that but that also lights my fuse and I have to give some rebuttal to give them some balance on their views.
I say bring everything to the switch the more the merrier! Just no lazy dev ports for a quick buck.

@WhistleFish lmao Jxd and gpd!
Dude your hilarious 😂

@WhistleFish
First, those aren't technically "hybrids". Yeah you can run a cord in just like you can run a cord from an iPad. Doesn't make iPad a "hybrid device". And those things are so niche anyways.

Should see my form topic I created for the GPD Win 2. I know all about the system, but that's not what a hybrid device is nor did it even remotely come close to claiming even 0.1% of the market. Devices like that- even if they were true hybrids- cannot be considered in the equation because they simply do not represent more than a few 10,000 in the entire planet. And there's a reason they are so niche.

The problem is, the only fanboy thing going on is yourself and the comment you just posted. The fact you can't realize it makes it even worse, and the fact you are so biased that you perceive anyone unbiased as being biased... well...

Your argument accomplishes absolutely nothing. Saying "but technically there's this PC-based handheld that sold 70,000 units across the world that can technically plug into a television therefore Nintendo didn't make the only hybrid therefore your argument is bunk" The absolute worst and most wack argument I think I've heard all month.

Even considering that those are in fact hybrid devices, for the sake of argument, they are certainly not feeding the demand that is being filled by Switch. If they were, people would be buying them instead. If they were, GPD would have sold 15 million in a year. Using a device that sold less than 100,000 in its entire lifespan as the crux of an argument is so meaningless that I have to question what made you think that was even a legitimate argument in the first place.

I know a guy across the street who built a hybrid device in his garage. Guess that means Nintendo doesn't have the only hybrid device! Guess that makes me a fanboy and negates everything I've said /s It's kinda like that old 2nd grade saying, "whoever smelt it dealt it". I've found in 9 out of 10 cases, this is perfectly applicable- the actual fanboys are the first to accuse others of being such (because real fanboys can't win an argument on reason, and thus resort to attempts at discrediting others instead of proving them wrong, although they will stretch weak arguments as well). Using a device that sold 70,000 to try to negate my statement of "Nintendo is feeding the demand for a hybrid system no other device is" is so inconsequential it comes off as grasping at straws. Even if that is a hybrid device (which it's not), but even if it was, it changes nothing. The Switch sells more in one week, in one country, than that device has sold over the entire planet for its entire life span. We're talking the big boy leagues here with significant market presence, not home science projects and failed gadgets from a bygone era. The oligopoly of dedicated video games is dominated by Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. If one of those 3 aren't doing it, then it's effectively not being done.

@JaxonH
That's the answer i expected

Regardless, they are classed as hybrid, sales have nothing to do with it, doesn't matter if they only sold 1, they do the same as switch. With that logic the switch is just a handheld with TV out, same with jxd

There wasn't a argument, just pointing out that switch wasn't the only choice out there like you claimed, not saying jxd or GPD are the best thing ever, great for retro though

@WhistleFish
Obviously there are no absolutes in this world we live in. There is always some company, somewhere, in some corner of the globe that has done something that can be considered the same.

But I was not speaking in absolutes (as very few do), but meaningful, practical terms. If you take a drug test and they say you have no THC in your system, it doesn't mean there are 0ng/mL, it simply means you are below the cutoff. There is no meaningful amount in your system... no amount that's worth mentioning. Likewise, there is no other hybrid system on the market- none worth mentioning. And I'm not going to stop and say "Nintendo has the only hybrid, asterix asterix, except company Y which made this one system this one time that could run to a TV if you bought an HDMI mini to HDMI cable and they sold 70,000 units". No. For all intents and purposes Nintendo has the only hybrid.

That said, those devices were not specifically designed as hybrids. And I think most would agree that simply running a cord to a TV does not constitute being a hybrid system. It constitutes being a portable system with TV out. A small but significant difference. Hybrid systems are hybrid out of the box, with a setup which is some level beyond a simple HDMI cord. Had they come with a dock that instantly switched the image to the television and was designed to do so out of the box, with all the components needed to do so out of the box... then I would agree. But they didn't, and I don't, and even if I did it changes nothing about what I said anyways, and simply argues semantics, which is always a pointless debate.

Not to mention, it's almost always understood we're referring to the dedicated console market anyways. The only reason PC is ever included in the conversation is because of its market share and popularity, an exception which neither of those devices have earned.

@Kalmaro For me, the Souls series and Bloodborne (so From games basically!) are the perfect examples of online gaming done perfectly. There is absolutely nothing quite like it. So positive and amazing camaraderie.

I think I will try Dark Souls for 1st time on Switch when it's released! Wish me luck....!

@Mince-Pie good luck. My advice would be to go in blind and only look something up if you’re feeling frustrated. Then if you want, you can do a second, more thorough run. But your first time playing Dark Souls is pretty amazing and shouldn’t be spoiled. I wouldn’t watch any videos or trailers either if you can.

@WhistleFish lmao I can’t take you seriously
I always listen to opinions but I’m allergic to 2 bit verbal diarrhoea like yours...do you know why?
Your original post was just an attack on another forum member who by the way is way smarter then you.
You called him out for being a liar and a fanboy, then started talking about having a dark soul oooooooooo a dark place oooooo scary!
Then you said it wasnt an argument you were “just” pointing it out?
May I ask why drama queens like you use incendiary language only to be surprised when your called out on it?
P.s you sound like a fanboy going on about the jxd 😂 (see how that works?)

@WhistleFish woah cut down all the swears, that was the most dramatic use of cuss words ever! You really should just paint your nails when you get this angry 😂 it’s nice to Know you ruined your evening, as that post full of swears must have got your dramatic self warned! Guess it speaks volumes about how you were bought up tut tut
Another troll I can happily ban!
P.s guys I wish I could show you this trolls post but it was too expletive lol also he said some pretty nasty stuff about everyone on here and nl staff! Like what they even do to this guy!??! I can happily announce the troll did say he will show himself out so won’t be having to block him afterall

In reference to the last 30 post or so above mine.... You both are wasting way to much time arguing about pointlessness. You obviously both have different view points on the switch and gaming in general. Jaxon I would just let it go man, he will not be seeing your side of the story. Other dude (can't remember your name lol) I also would like a more powerful dock but understand why Nintendo decided to go with what it has currently in the box. As far as dark souls goes? I've never played the first so i welcome it with open arms, only need to decided between Xbox and switch... I honestly enjoy playing all my games on switch more even if not in handheld mode. Guess I'm werid.

@JaxonH Last time I'll remind you of this: It's not like I can get Nintendo's games elsewhere, now can I? I have to buy their hardware, or did you think I'd buy Switch if their games were on PC?

Also Jaxon, I'm not going to mince words, I seriously dislike how you argue your point. It's as if you're saying "The Switch is my handheld! I love it as such, and if that means the other part that you use suffers for it, then you'll have to accept and live with that!" Well sorry, but no I won't. I'd like to see that part get it's own set of improvements and enhancements.

Every time someone suggests locking features to handheld, they're all given a thumbs-up. Every-time someone even DARES to think about a game that's docked only to make use of that pathetic little extra bit of power the Switch has, he is mentally tackled and restrained with "But that would compromise the Switch's message! That would go against it! We can't have that!" Hypocritical bunch of failures...

And the above is a perfect example of why the Switch should NOT have been a hybrid, and why Nintendo should've gone with a way to have games on both a separate handheld and home-console system. You get what you desire, just add an HDMI cable, and I get what I want, a proper home-console system that runs games well without being stuck to, and limited by, a tablet form.

@Robohock We've not encountered this... "hybrid" situation before, so it's only natural that questions arise. I see it quite simple: home-console people ask different things from their machine than handheld. Handheld people are happy to play their game on the go, and will happily take any compromise. Home-console people tend to value performance, and these 2 things clash, that's simply the way of it. (and why would they not value performance? I sure as hell am noticing that things don't look quite that crisp when on the big screen, but oh wait that's NEVER leveraged as an argument, why? Because people only look at handheld, which does look good!)

Also, let's not mince words, the true attraction of the Switch, the sole if not main reason why games sell on the system is portability. You could remove anything else, the Joy-Cons (obviously replaced by a non-removable side-piece with buttons) the dock, anything and it'd sell just as well on the premise of portability alone. I see people worship this concept as the key integral part of gaming now, and I can already see this lead to a future where the actual games themselves are compromised severely, just because this crowd demands portability above all else. Well, what a great future to look forward to, buggy and unoptimized games for Nintendo, I'm already being filled with hype.

The other day, someone suggested Ubisoft could bring Anno to Switch, which had me laugh my socks off. There's a reason why RTS aren't on consoles, due to mouse control, because there's a lot to render, a lot going on, a lot of models, and the same argument can be made for the current (important, read that double, if not triple) state of the Switch. Until it doesn't make any compromises for handheld any-more, it's still a majority tablet/handheld device that happens to have a fancier looking case to hold that also doubles as a glorified HDMI cable. You can ditch the dock and use the rest of the Switch without issue, but you can't ditch the Switch (and the Joy-Cons in this case) and use the rest of the dock for anything, and without that dock, it isn't a home-console, hence it's a side-accessory, rather then an integral part. "Oh, but then what would you Switch to?" Tablet/table-top mode, nice try though, I'll give points for that.

@MFD
You needn't "remind" me of anything. Buy a Switch for Nintendo's games... or don't. Really makes no difference. Either way, if you want multiplats on a power console, then you get a power console. You don't see people who like hybrid devices complaining that their PS4's don't transform into a handheld. No. Because people understand what the device offers before they buy it. If it's worth it, get it, and if it's not then don't. If buying a Switch is worth it for Nintendo's games, and buying a separate platform for multiplats is worth it for those games... then buy them both. It's that simple.

You want an apple, then buy an apple. You want an orange, then buy an orange. You want apples and oranges, then buy apples and oranges. But don't go buy an apple and complain it's not an orange, get angry it's not an orange, and then tell all the people who love eating oranges that the fruit shouldn't exist because you like apples more.

@JaxonH I'll complain when I buy an apple, and it tastes like an orange. Nintendo themselves call it a home-console system, and I can't expect what comes with that label? My god what a world we live in.

And just for the record, I already own a medium powered gaming PC, I just don't want to see frame-drops/errors in my games because the system I bought for home-console play, is actually a tablet with glorified HDMI cable.

@MFD
No, that's your misguided delusion buddy.

The taste was advertised in big, bold letters for all to see, including you. And it tastes exactly as you would expect. The Apple tastes like an apple- hybrid system works like a hybrid system. Only a total ***** idgit would think a hybrid system would taste like a power console.

You're just angry because you wanted that apple to taste like an orange, despite the big green peel and "Granny Smith" written right on it.

That's your own fault.

"Don't wanna see frame drops"

Then don't buy em on the Switch, buy them on PC. Ta-da! Solution! See how easy that is? Amazing.

Sorry to be "that guy" but... "Prepare to vie"? You mean die right?

I'm downloading this on my PS4, specifically due to already having II, III and Bloodborne on it.

But, i'm not ruling out a future Switch DS purchase as the portability sounds good.

Nonetheless, PS4 first.

Edit: PS4 also because of the 60fps

Why wouldn’t it work? It’s a computer game.
I’m still not sure what platform I’ll buy it on though. I had the original on PC, which was a mess. Second and third also on PC which were great. 60fps helps a lot in a game like this, so I’m not sure how I’ll handle 30fps. But for me it’s between PS4 Pro or Switch, I’m still edging towards Switch just because of the portability. If the game isn’t delayed then Switch it will probably be, as a few days later I’m on a long flight to Canada so it’ll be a perfect game for the trip.

@spyro202 No they meant what they wrote, it’s a play on words. “Vie, for attention”

@JaxonH Go to Nintendo and sort the XC2 situation then, lad. I've came across plenty of issues, some of them more egregious then others, namely the errors, that should've never been in a Nintendo product.

@electrolite77 "No more having to buy two systems to get all Nintendo's future games." I never saw that as an issue, and I still don't. It makes sense to have separate systems, since people will be happy to just have games portable, they don't have to be good, don't need to run well, neither do they have need for power (Just look at 3DS). But from a home-console, it's expected that the device can do something of merit in that regard, and quite a bit behind the curve (base levels of competition, I think another Nintendo employee got a stroke when I mentioned COMPETITION) isn't exactly a good thing, now is it?

And yes, I'm well aware that the above is a very skewed way to look at it, but that's the vibes I get from these people that cream over Switch due to it's portability. Comparisons not in it's favour? But it's portable. Problems in the games? It's portable. Anything negative about it? It's portable. Only natural that one gets really sick of these people if they want to see improvements, and they're excused all day every day.

Heck. With the 40$ pricetag. This thing will sell millions of copies on the Switch.

Company designs their own system, doesn't suit everyone... Shocking!

Seriously, @JaxonH is right, don't like it, don't buy it, no one is forcing you to... The sense of entitlement is strong in this thread

@MFD @JaxonH Well, I can think of two mainstream "hybrids" that had the same "TV or portable" idea as the NS (minus the NS clock speed being much higher, underclocked when portable, set to stock when docked)- the PSP-2000 onwards and Vita-1000 & TV. Granted, I don't think Sony ever specifically referred to them as "hybrids," just as portables with the amenities of a home console (which is similar in practice), with extra peripheral cabling being needed for TV output, and Bluetooth tethering being needed for extra controllers. The NS indeed provides such multi-functionality better, but the fact remains that the basic premise behind the concept is nothing new at all.

As for FPS, consoles in general still cannot necessarily be relied upon to maintain consistent frame times capped @ 60 FPS, not even the shiny upgrade console varieties. For example, Destiny 2 is locked @ 30 FPS on XB1X, and the Crash Bandicoot remakes are locked @ 30 FPS on PS4Pro. It was made apparent what some industry executives really think about their customers when Phil Spencer made these comments @ E3 2017 when interviewed by GameCentral:

GC: What also frustrates me is that the only number I care about is the only one that you and Sony don’t obsess over. Which is 60fps, which I understand is easier to do on the Xbox One X than any other console.

PS: That’s correct. But… [laughs] Why do you care about 60fps?

GC: It’s the only number that [significantly] affects gameplay and yet it’s the only one you two never go on about! No-one can tell the difference between 4K and 1080p and all that nonsense…

PS: You just broke your whole argument now!

GC: How?

PS: You just said these games could run on a Commodore 64, they would not run at 60 frames per second on a Commodore 64.

GC: Uridium did.

PS: [laughs] I’m not disagreeing with you. But it’s a subjective opinion that that’s the only one that matters.

Phil Spencer condescendingly tried to steer the conversation in a certain way, and revealed their motive when GC countered that Uridium on the C64 achieved 60 FPS all the way back in 1986. (So therefore, asking the question why 60 FPS isn't standardized by now on this brand new $500 console over 30 years later, since frame rate has indeed always been a primary metric affecting gameplay, whereas resolution is secondary.) Phil essentially referred to both frame rate's and resolution's importance as subjective, when in fact, the importance of frame rate is objective and of resolution is subjective. They believe they can decide what's best for their customers for them, altering their narrative to fit their marketing line. Regardless of where one's personal preferences lie, that sort of behavior should give anyone pause to fund the coffers of such people.

That said, there are certain games (such as Mass Effect) where 60+ FPS makes the animation actually look "too fluid" in an alien sort of way to me. (Fitting I suppose, given the subject title!) So for those games, I actually prefer to intentionally lower the frame cap to 30 FPS so the animation looks more natural. But generally, I do much prefer stable frame times with 60+ FPS, even if it means having to lower the resolution to 720p/900p/1080p. Many developers are smart enough to do that on their own, but people like Phil Spencer won't necessarily give you that option.

Damn. Firstly the price was same as on ps4 and i was going to buy it asap. But now it raised on 50% and it s so meaningless now(

@PlywoodStick
I don' consider those devices hybrids. And for 3 reasons.

1 Was not able to be played as both handheld and home console out of the box without any additional purchases

2 I do not believe running TV out via additional cable constitutes being a hybrid system- a hybrid system must, in some manner, go above and beyond a simple TV out cable. If you have to plug a cable in directly each time, it's not really hybrid, but a portable device you're utilizing for console play

3 Of all these examples, none of them actually offered true home console games- Switch actually plays home console games, not just handheld games on a TV. And this is a huge point. A hybrid doesn't necessarily need to match power spec to spec, but it does need to play the same, actual console games other consoles are playing without having separate spinoffs developed, otherwise it's not really working as a console, but rather a handheld with handheld games that can be played on the TV. Which, I suppose it would still be a "hybrid" but a different kind- not home console/handheld but rather handheld on TV/handheld.

But regardless, I think it's a moot point to argue anyways. Even if you pointed to a device and said "well technically this did it first" it changes nothing. The masses never bought any of these devices for a hybrid play. Some of them might have been used in that manner by a niche segment of customers but to date the switch is the first device to actually penetrate the market with as a hybrid. Whether another device did or did not do it first... is simply irrelevant

@PlywoodStick 60 FPS is one thing, but stable is another. Zelda dips frames when using stasis+ and panning the camera, and that's the game XC2 suffered for. XC2 could've probably been stable 30 FPS all around if that didn't happen.

I'm not asking all these games to run 60 FPS, I'm asking them to RUN STABLE at least. Is that so much to ask?

@JaxonH "If you have to plug a cable in directly each time, it's not really hybrid, but a portable device you're utilizing for console play" So basically Switch? Gotcha. The dock is just an expensive plastic accessory, with a small cube that acts as a converter ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxUuDh5dOus ), that apparently succeeds in making you think it causes the Switch to qualify as hybrid. GG Nintendo.

What are "true" home-console games then? Are the games on Vita not "true" home-console games? They came from, what was it? PS2/PS3? Isn't Vita the first hybrid then, since it's got that Vita TV thing? In addition to the rest?

It can play the same games the way you explain it, because the form-factor of the machine is, inherently, a tablet. Add Joy-Cons and it's a handheld. If you dock it, you can play it on a TV, but that doesn't make it a home-console. It's form-factor didn't magically transform into something else, it's still that tablet that is at the heart of everything.

@MFD
Doesn't matter how cheap the dock is. That's irrelevant.

The fact you do not have a cable hanging over your entertainment center that you have to physically grab and plug in a port, means it is different.

That you simply set it down and it instantly on the TV separates it from all other devices. I don't care if it was made of cardboard- the END RESULT is what matters.

And if you're now trying to argue with me over who did it first then I'm going to have to come to the conclusion that you're simply chewed up over the credit Nintendo is getting and no rational gamer is going to go out of their way to argue just to keep Nintendo from getting credit for something unless they truly despise that company.

And I don't have time for petty arguments like that

@JaxonH "The fact you do not have a cable hanging over your entertainment center that you have to physically grab and plug in a port, means it is different." What? So just because the cables go in the dock, that changes everything? So encasing the cable in a plastic holder is all it takes?

They can have all the credit they want, I'm simply arguing in favour of the mode that seems the internet seems to want to forget. Comparisons, news, reason for buying, Nintendo talking, it's all handheld. If it's a "hybrid" then why is "handheld" all I read and hear? Do you see Nintendo talk about how the Switch has reinvigorated the home-console market by being hybrid? No, instead, we get headlines like these: http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-on-how-switch-reaffirms-the-value-of-portable-gaming-has-an-advantage-over-smartphones/

We get instances like these: http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/10/report-nintendo-switch-dock-doesnt-support-external-usb-drives/ Is that equal treatment? Handheld people can get most of what they want, but Nintendo doesn't even allow people external USB drives because they piss their pants at the thought that it's LESS PORTABLE? Excuse me, but that is BS to level of maximum.

@MFD
Precisely.

The fact you don't have to plug a cable in. The fact you simply set it down and it instantly transitions to the TV, turns the TV on and switches inputs.

It's why 50% of 15 million Switch owners use their system in both console and handheld. Poll how many PSP users used theirs as both. Betting it's less than 0.01%

All because of that dock.

And people hate Nintendo for it. They hate that such a simple and easy solution has been such a game changer. That's why people such as yourself try to minimize it and downplay it and pretend it's not a big deal.

But it is a big deal. It is a gamechanger (in every sense of the word). Take a look at the sales charts (fastest selling console of all time in almost every country of the world). It's a big deal. If there wasn't much difference, then you'd see the same percentage of people using TV out. But you don't. Because plugging a cable in and turning the TV on and changing the inputs... vs simply setting a console down... is everything.

@JaxonH Explain me those links. Justify them. Tell me why, if it's such a big deal, it doesn't get coverage, it's only looked down upon, and it's only justified/saved by handheld. Tell me that.

"We get instances like these: http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/10/report-nintendo-switch-dock-doesnt-support-external-usb-drives/ Is that equal treatment? Handheld people can get most of what they want, but Nintendo doesn't even allow people external USB drives because they piss their pants at the thought that it's LESS PORTABLE? Excuse me, but that is BS to level of maximum."

How is it fair, that people that play docked aren't even ALLOWED to solve the Switch's PATHETIC internal memory because Nintendo rolls their eyes at such an arbitrary and pathetic thing? What's wrong with external USB's?

@MFD

You're trying too hard dude. Desperation mode engaged

@JaxonH Easy to put it like that when you've ran out of arguments. How much do you get paid for Nintendo's PR, or are you doing it for free?

@MFD
Pffft...

My argument is rock solid. And it has been from the start.

Your lame attempts to discredit the utility and gamechanging nature of Switch hybrid concept just reeks of butt hurt. And the only thing butt hurt fanatics do, is accuse others of "being paid".

No. Nobody pays me, I gladly volunteer to debunk your wack arguments for free.

@JaxonH Whack arguments? You've done nothing to debunk those links. Still waiting for that bit.

electrolite77 That is the setup I'm sporting right now. Permanently docked Switch on my left, PC in-front of me. Nintendo's exclusives, plus more games coming to Steam that used to be console only, is what makes it a nice combo. But most people will just look at the Switch, and say "Ah, for on the go" in this case.

@MFD

YOU are the one saying Switch hybrid concept is nothing special. The burden is on you to prove otherwise.

But here, let me help you. Then bugger off. Because your agenda from your very first post has been to complain, discredit, marginalize downplay every aspect of this system. And I'm tired of hearing it. Your words go against the berry reality we live in.

Take a nice, LONG look there spuddy

https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/31/16580638/nintendo-switch-success-portable-console

Now. You are clearly wrong, proven by statistics. Unless you can show me a link to a study that shows people playing their handheld devices in the same percentages without a dock, then you have no argument and you need to back off and leave me the Frick alone because I'm sick of arguing with you

@JaxonH Basing that on a survey, that only counts those who bothered to answer said survey, and doesn't account the rest of the world. I laugh at thee.

@MFD
Oh my goodness, really?

See, this is what I'm talking about. You didn't want to see proof, you made up your mind to believe something irrational no matter how much evidence is presented.

Do you not know how statistics work? Clearly not.

@electrolite77 Agreed! For what it's worth, cryptocurrency rates recently dropped like a rock again, so hopefully that will curb the currently unreasonable GPU prices by the time the next generation releases later this year. Vega iGPU's with graphical prowess roughly matching an NVIDIA GT 1030 at stock, and potentially matching the upcoming mobile-focused GT 1040 if overclocked by a few hundred MHz when combined with 3200+ MHz RAM, are also releasing on both budget-mid range AMD APU's and mid-upper range Intel CPU's this year, so budget builds without discrete GPU's are going to be viable alternatives for many this year. RAM prices will still be high, though.

@JaxonH "Figures for Nintendo Switch gameplay for registered Nintendo Account users, gathered via the internet Showing Hardware where play time for either docked or undocked modes exceeds 80% as gameplay in XX mode is primary."

Last I checked, people out and about are mostly offline, that, and who knows how many people either are 100% offline, or never bothered to register? Or are those people irrelevant to you?

Oops, forgot to ping you

@JaxonH 1st point: True for the PSP/Vita, and the Sega Nomad as well now that I think about it, but that doesn't take away from the capability being included in marketing materials, with relatively cheap peripheral accessories making it possible. (Certainly a lot cheaper than Nintendo charges for extra docks! )

2nd point: Well... The Switch has to do that too. The cable connection is just relegated to the dock instead of the console itself, although the console still has to connect into the dock and process the connection. Either way, minus the NS having exponentially higher processing power and clock rate, being underclocked while portable and boosting up to stock clocks while docked, the desired effect is similar in practice.

3rd point: Besides the ports of PS1 games (and the capability of the PSP to readily emulate pretty much any PS1 game in such a small package, no mean feat for 2004 era portable tech, especially considering the O3DS has some trouble with more demanding SNES titles), the likes of modified ports such as Persona 3 Portable on PSP and Persona 4 The Golden on Vita, and the likes of Ys Seven, Valkyria Chronicles 3, or Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity on PSP and Rayman Legends, The Legend of Heroes: Trails Of Cold Steel 1+2, Muramasa Rebirth, and Final Fantasy X/X-2 Remastered on Vita (not to mention the Nomad actually using Genesis cartridges)... Well, yes, less processing power than their dedicated home console contemporaries. But then again, the Switch has that same property as well, and yet we're not necessarily chastising Nintendo's system for that shortcoming, nor should we. We should recognize the achievements made in each era.

4th point: True, NS is what standardized readily switching between TV output and portable play, except for some hiccups on particularly demanding titles such as Xenoblade 2. However, despite it being the most popular implementation of this type of feature thus far, it's still important to consider what came before from a historical context. To ignore history is to ensure repeats of past follies in the future. In this case, it also reminds us that this feature is nothing original, and that sometimes the giants give each other ideas, despite the stigma of it only being Sony taking all of Nintendo's ideas.

@MFD

You know nothing of statistics. Plenty of people who play handhelds still have a home Internet connection.

Either way, there is a margin of error with statistics and even if you were on the extreme end of that margin of error, there is no possible way you can discount the significance of the results.

It's time you accept that you are wrong. And if you can't accept that after demanding a link for proof, and I give you exactly that, then you're going to get added to the ignore list.

I don't have time for this nonsense dude, you've been arguing with me for over 24 hours, over nonsense- crap you make up in your own mind and choose to believe against all evidence and facts and reality. Find something else to do. Please. Because I grew tired of this long ago.

@JaxonH Arguing for the dock's improvement is nonsense crap to you? So long as your mode is perfectly fine, all is dandy eh?

@MFD
Flag alert: strawman argument

Never said anything about dock improvement. That's the very definition of a strawman argument.

Good day.

@JaxonH I've told you many a times that that's my motive. I'm asking that compromises on account of Switch's form-factor don't impact docked play, that is all.

Now calm down, will you?

@MFD
Dude, I'm done. find something else to do... do not respond to me again. I've told you multiple times I am sick of arguing with you. This conversation is going absolutely nowhere, yet you persist.

Find. Something else. To do.

@MFD I think it's more likely that a wholesale console upgrade with improved base specs will be introduced by 2020/2021. The whole external CPU/GPU in the dock route is feasible with USB 3.1... But then again, look what happened to Sega CD/32X, N64DD, etc. The Genesis in particular was doing great giving some real competition to the SNES, but few were willing to bite on expensive peripheral upgrades with a questionable future, and many consumers were burned.

The NS is doing excellently now, but that could go downhill if major mistakes are made. Nintendo is in the black with billions in the bank, but they're not invincible. A specs upgrade through the dock would just be repeating history. Exactly how much it would be, I don't know, but I'm guessing those involved with making the 90's era specs upgrade peripherals still have lingering memories of those failed experiments.

By the time 2020/2021 arrives, the currently unpalatable high price of the Tegra X2/Pascal/Parker will have significantly dropped, which should make it a shoe-in for the NeXt Nintendo console upgrade SKU. It'll be a long wait to potentially have zero problems with Xenoblade 2 and the like, though...

@PlywoodStick "wait to potentially have zero problems with Xenoblade 2 and the like, though..." Therein lies the problem.

It's a good thing there's some third-party titles lined up for Switch, as Dom clearly knows more about them than he does about Nintendo games from what we've seen so far.

I dunno if it's gonna work on the Switch but I know it's killing it on Amazon's pre-orders.

Even I am thinking about getting it, specially for the lower ($40) price tag.

@electrolite77 That'd be the best solution, aye. Giving it more thought, the thing that irks me about the Switch, isn't actually the machine itself, but the asinine fools that own it and demand all their games portable now.

Look at this: http://nintendoeverything.com/monster-hunter-world-devs-on-the-lack-of-a-switch-version/ All these people whining about Sony moneyhatting and how World should've been on Switch. It disgusts me.

The great thing about the Switch is that almost any game will "work" for it, perhaps better than any other console, technical limitations aside. Design-wise, it's the perfect console.

@electrolite77 People just twist things to suit their whims. It's so much easier to just say Sony moneyhatted it, than to accept what the developer says. Hell, I've seen comments of people saying the developer is lying!

Indeed as to your 1st piece. It's a part of the industry. Why should Nintendo have countless exclusives and that's all right, but when one says Sony and MHW you get this: "And what if he doesn't have one of those? That's over $300 just to play a single game."

That argument can be applied to ANY console, and doubly so for Nintendo when one considers their library of exclusive IP.