Breath of the Wild Developers Discuss the Zelda Timeline

Zelda timeline stuff is fun to think about and debate but should not be taken too seriously. I think it's pretty clear that they make each game to be the best it can be first and where it fits in the timeline is a secondary concern.

Definitely the downfall timeline. You have to make pretty wild assumptions to put it in any other timeline.

I think people put a little too much stock into the whole Zelda timeline thing. I personally am more than satisfied with the little bit of connection between the games the series currently has. These games were never intended to be direct sequels, or prequels to each other, each game has its own stories and characters.

If I were Aonuma and friends, I'd just say that BotW is a reimagining of the original Zelda game (which it pretty much is), and therefore, on the fallen hero timeline.

I think the notion of a complete timeline is all just fan speculation. Not something the developers ever had in mind. Each game is more or less made to be standalone, unless it's an obvious sequel to something like Phantom Hourglass was with Wind Waker.

I still think BOTW is in the "Nintendo says 'f*** the timeline' timeline".

Just play and enjoy the game and don't worry about "timelines."

The fact that they made a timeline for the Historia was probably just because of the fan demand for one.
What really makes Zelda a "series" are the recurring themes and game elements, and not necessarily the fact that every game's story is related to the others like in a traditional series.

Not my kind of thing...I'll just watch and maybe grab some popcorn while people try to connect the dots. I'll just happy BOTW exist.

@Kupoling You actually need more wild assumptions to do that than the Child Timeline.

Ultimately, seems like a Dragon Break to me.

Screw the timeline, just enjoy the stupid game. lol

@Kupoling The only timeline explicitly alluded to in Breath of the Wild is the child timeline. Zelda clearly mentions that the Master Sword was once “bathed in the glowing embers of Twlight.” But I digress. Timeline theory is like politics. It’s best left alone.

I've never been very interested in the whole Zelda timeline debacle. I didn't even know it was such a huge matter of discussion until I spotted several articles and posts about it.

I mean, I am a huge fan, but it's not like story is one of the primary reasons why I play these games. I'd be all over Zero Escape timeline discussions, for example, but Zelda? Ehhh.

@thesilverbrick Wind Waker and ALttP are also referenced in the original script in that memory.

Why do I get the feeling that they do know where it fits but are too afraid of fan backlash to say

I'm probably in the minority, but I liked the timeline because it offered a more cohesive path for Zelda lore. The references to Ocarina from Wind Waker and especially Twilight Princess really strengthened those games, and goes to show that tying into Zelda lore and the events of previous games helps strengthen the current game's story. It's a shame they're moving away from the timeline, since one of my favorite parts of TP is how it tied into OoT and how those references can be explained by understanding the position of TP in the child timeline.

@IceClimbers Not quite. Her full speech is as follows:

“Hero of Hyrule, chosen by the sword that seals the darkness…
You have shown unflinching bravery and skill in the face of darkness and adversity.
And have proven yourself worthy of the blessings of the Goddess Hylia.
Whether skyward bound, adrift in time, or steeped in the glowing embers of twilight…
The sacred blade is forever bound to the soul of the Hero.
We pray for your protection… and we hope that—that the two of you will grow stronger together, as one.

Forged in the long-distant past, the sword that seals the darkness…
Guardian of Hyrule, ancient steel, forever bound to the hero.
In the name of Goddess Hylia, I bless you and your chosen hero.
Over the seas of time and distance, when we need the golden power of the Goddess…
Our hope rests in you, to be forever by the hero's side.
Again we pray…that the two of you will grow stronger…and be together as one.”

Nothing in her words mentions the events of anything outside the Child Timeline.

@shadow-wolf Oh, I’m definitely a fan of a cohesive timeline, as it lends weight to the individual games as a connected narrative and in relation to the curse put on Hyrule by Demise. I’m with you there, my friend. We are definitely a minority, though, haha.

The Legend of Zelda series has been beloved for over 30 years and Nintendo still can't be bothered to come up with consistent lore for it. That's fine on it's own I guess, but it really highlights how much of a sham Hyrule Historia is.

I do think that having lore makes the games better though, so I suppose it's no coincidence that Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword are my favorite entries in the series and each of them added substantially to the lore for the series through their storytelling.

@greengecko007 Why do you need consistent lore? I've been a zelda fan since the NES and i enjoy the games for what they are. They were never designed originally to flow because that wasn't how games worked back then. Each game exists as it's own experience. I see no point to try and and patch lore into it like you seem to want to. If you want a lore heavy game just go play warcraft or something designed that way in the first place...

@greengecko007 it's worth mentioning that lore has made no difference to any of my zelda experiences. Not even sure i know what even constitutes lore quite frankly. Don't recall any of the zelda games you mentioned being steeped with "lore"

@Dpishere "These games were never intended to be direct sequels, or prequels to each other"

I have a hard time believing that is true. Zelda II The Adventure of Link is titled an awful lot like a direct sequel to the original and the story elements portray it as occurring closely after the events of the original. The title A Link to the Past suggests that there clearly is some sort of timeline in order for their to even be a set of past events, and seems like an obvious prequel to the NES games. Then the story of Ocarina of Time easily places it again as a prequel to the other games as it explains to origins of the iconic villain Ganon. I could go on, but it seems to me like there are many games which put emphasis on the order of their events in a set history. It just also seems like Nintendo hasn't done the best job at maintaining that history or even caring about it.

The timeline is already confusing and down the line (no pun intended lol) it will become more of a mess.

@blondeandy If that's the case you simply haven't been reading the text for the majority of the games since the NES days. It's not like an Elder Scrolls amount of lore, with some hundred years of detailed history, but there's a sizable amount of story content that links the games together and even more that simply serves to better flesh out the world of their respective games.

@greengecko007 Yeah I may have spoken a little without thinking enough about it, I am aware of the connections between them, heck I have the Hyrule Historia on the shelf directly in front of me but what I mean is the stories themselves aren't tied together, the timeline does answer things such as the origin of Ganon and the Master Sword like you suggested though.

@greengecko007 I've played all the games when they've been released. There has been no tie made between any games until the lore fans came along. I'll admit, i don't try to read into what i'm told but if you can explain exactly how these games linked into each other prior to the historia coming along i'd be interested to listen. Until that point though it's just a bunch of lore nerds trying to piece together games that weren't meant to be pieced together. While we're at it, perhaps you could tell me the lore that links mario 1,2,3,world and sunshine???

@blondeandy https://youtu.be/ak8jzShE3Vk

@NintendoVideoGa Sorry dude, i gave that video enough of a go. I don't get it. There is nothing to tie anything together at all. It's a summary of all the games with occasional spots of a boat that they then say relates to windwaker/hourglass. If you can give me timestamps of the revelatory moments i'll go back in. Until then it's all bobbins and the lore nerds need to pack it in...

Zelda lore is important - there's a lot of people here who just don't get it.

The timeline was a bad idea.

As a kid, I never found myself wondering when things took place. It seemed fairly obvious that in every generation or so a Ganon, Zelda and Link would be born in an eternal struggle for the power of the Triforce. It simply didn't need explaining.

Nintendo isn't concerned with the timeline. They say they are, but that's just PR to try and please everyone.
Trying to fit each game into its supposed timeline is like trying to explain all the inconsistencies in the bible:
You can perform all these far-fetched mental gymnastics to try and make it all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, but the reality is that the books were all written by different authors from different times and they all had different beliefs and motivations.
People just have to accept that the Zelda timeline will never be perfectly harmonized for pretty much the same reasons.

there is no timeline

I remember reading an interview with Miyamoto a long time ago, and he was asked where Oracle of Ages and Seasons fit in the timeline. He never really answered, but said that Zelda is more like a tv drama, as in many episodes with their own stories with a very loose continuity.

I also remember how the opening to Skyward Sword explained that the different stories truly are true legends that never perfectly connect. To me, that's a big part of what makes Zelda Zelda. Getting frustrated with the timeline is missing the point.

That said, I think we'll one day find out the different timelines converged and Breath of the Wild is the furthest in the future. There's too many references to the three timelines not to be. The map references the downfall and child lines a lot. But then there's Rito and Koroks from the adult timeline in the game. It'll be a long time before we really know.

i really dont understand the whole Zelda timeline thing...it is obvious that most of the titles isnt connected anyhow ...just like the final fantasy titles

While a neat timeline and lore isn't necessary to enjoying the series, it is fun to speculate and theorize. On one hand, it's clear Nintendo has never been TOO concerned with having a cohesive one. On the other, they have made references (in game) and comments giving credence that some type of connection between does exist. Some more directly than others.

Personally, I always figured the explanation for Link and Zelda was the reincarnation idea, with maybe a couple of them being the same versions across a game or two.

With all that being said, I think it's a bit disingenuous to outright suggest there isn't one at all Nintendo themselves have gone out of their way to come up with something. Sure, it's not priority number one on their list when it comes to the games. But they've put it out there. And if they really didn't want to acknowledge the existence of one, they could have just easily dismissed it and not fan the flames with Hyrule Historia.

As for BoTW, I am of the feeling that for this game, it's either one of two scenarios

1) There wasn't any real effort to place it in any one timeline and it's more a celebration of the entire franchise and lore

Or

2) To simplify things, somehow the three timelines have converged back into one.

Either way, the game has referenced way too many games in different timelines to definitively say it belongs one or the others

@Wendigo No, it's because wherever they place it, it contradicts at least something. Rito evolved from the Zora in the 'adult timeline' as a result of the great flood, and the remaining Zora are extinct in that timeline. So it doesn't add up. Place it in another timeline and you have to deal with explaining what the Rito are doing there. That's why all of the timeline stuff is pointless, the games were never made with the timeline in mind.

From the reveal of BotW till now after finishing the game if felt that BotW is a reverse OoT, as in it joins the three differing timelines into one, right below them.

It kind of irritates me that they're only half-concerned about the timeline. Just have a legitimate timeline or don't have one at all IMO. All this theorizing is pointless if there's no true answer to where everything fits.

Certain games in the Zelda franchise are direct sequels to other games in the Zelda franchise, and those are called out explicitly either in-game, in marketing, or both.

Other games in the Zelda franchise are re-tellings of a Legend, which means they bear resemblance to and share common elements with other tellings of the Legend because that is how legends work.

I think trying to shoehorn it all into an "official" split timeline was somewhat foolish, but I also understand why they did it since fans were hounding them about it forever. But I certainly don't have any expectation that they'll take that overcomplicated and restrictive formula and be bound to it going forward. Why would I want to limit them like that?

Breath of the Wild is maybe my favorite telling of the Legend yet. I look forward to the next one.

I feel like the Legend of Zelda is named like that for a reason: all the video games are legends. What this means is that every game is a story passed down through time so they're all in the same timeline but might not be entirely true, just like legends. They have been exagerated or made up and have been passed on generation after generation. They're not stories then, but legends of the hero.

Is there a timeline for Superman, Spiderman or Batman? None of the movies had a timeline, they do a reboot after a decade.

@shadow-wolf I completely agree with you. I wish Nintendo would care more about the timeline in zelda and just storytelling in their games in general. I basically read these quotes as a pr way of saying "yeah we kinda just made the game and didn't really give a crap about the timeline."

It gets very frustrating to me to see Nintendo not really care all that much about an aspect of the series that fans are very passionate about.

For me, I just took from the game that it's set after all the other games. Beyond that, I was too busy enjoying the game to think too much about how it related to the others. It's not a committee-produced superhero film that has to tie neatly with everything else (saying that not as an insult, but as someone who loves superhero films, by the way), it's a bona fide work of art.

@Yasaal I'm with you on this one. With all the references to the different games in the series, BotW feels like an entry in a fused timeline where all the three branches have come together. That could also explain Calamity Ganon's appearance as an almost corporeal entity haunting the lands where his past selves lived.

@BlueKnight07 Your post is cool because it entertains the most views and cool ideas all at the same time ahahaha

The reality is that the majority of the games are unrelated with only a few referencing one another. Wind Waker and Ocarina linked together the best for me and their combined stories (and games) are easily my favourite in the series

We should consider that Zelda isn't always just about the video games.

I imagine people care about the timeline for LARP or DND style RPs set in the Hyrule universe. Or fanfic. So timelines and lore matter to them.

Let's not dismiss those fans with "ROFL LOL JUST ENJOY THE D$%N GAME."

Edit: on a sidenote, this is why Wizards of the Coast pays attention to their timeline, because they have plenty of fans who don't play Magic: the Gathering, but follow the lore and collect cards accordingly.

@KirbyTheVampire Speculation is fine, even if the games aren't made with a timeline in mind, but that kinda got destroyed when Ninty decided to release an 'official' timeline, and confirming it exists (yet they don't seem to care when developing the games).

A good example would be the Team ICO games. Ueda confirmed Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian all take place in the same universe, allowing the fans to speculate how and when, without confirming anything or releasing an official timeline and map.

@NintendoVideoGa Good video.

I’m all for timeline talk. Just not “official” timelines, that’s not the reality of the games’ development: leave it to the fan’s imagination.

@thesilverbrick That’s the English translation of the speech. The original Japanese version (and the German translation) also includes the line “Whether the hero crosses the sea, or creates a link to the past, may you always be at his side” which references the other 2 timelines.

However, just because Zelda makes a comment that we the audience can connect to other games, doesn’t mean those games are canonical history for this one. She could just be using evocative language that coincidentally ticks the “fan service” box.

I’m more won over by other less incidental links, like a specific reference to the Zora Princess from OoT and the Goddess Hylia - but those references are the first part of the timeline, before it splits.

I think they need to scrap the timeline. I find it irrelevant! (and of course people will disagree with me) I much preferred the notion that this Legend changing slightly each generation like some epic game of Chinese whispers. Certainly gives more scope for creativity as events are less structured / rigid.

@blondeandy Sorry to hear that. There are a plentiful of other hour-long videos on the topic, but none that I've watched myself.

I finished Breath of the Wild awhile ago and it never really occurred to my while playing that the Triforce wasn't really present in the game. Is this the only Zelda game where the Triforce didn't play a role?

Edit: I've basically played all the Zelda games except the Gameboy Oracles games, Spirit Tracks and the 3DO games.

"We realized the timeline was a mistake, so we made Breath of the Wild to torpedo the whole thing."

WHAT IS PIXELATED FOOD REALLY!? I NEED TO KNOW!! WHAT IS HIDING UNDER THOSE PIXELS!? IS IT BLUEBERRIES!? BUT BLUEBERRIES COULD HAVE NOT SURVIVED UNDER THE DOWNFALL TIMELINE DUE TO EXCESSIVE LEVELS OF NITROGEN PRESENT IN THE ATMOSPHERE COMBINED WITH OVERLY ALKALINE SOIL CONDITIONS AFTER GANON CONQUERS HYRULE!!

IS IT THE ADULT TIMELINE!? IN WHICH CASE, HOW CAN BLUEBERRIES HAVE SURVIVED THE GREAT FLOOD WHEN THEN CAN ONLY TOLERATE ANNUAL RAINFALL LEVELS UP TO 6000MM PER YEAR!?

AND IT IS SIMPLY ABSURD TO SUGGEST THAT BLUEBERRIES CAN HAVE FLOURISHED UNDER THE CHILD TIMELINE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS!!!

HOW CAN THE DEVELOPERS NOT HAVE CONSIDERED THAT THE SUPPOSITION THAT PIXELATED FOOD MIGHT CONTAIN BLUEBERRIES WOULD UTTERLY RIP THE TIMELINE APART!? AND WHY DO PEOPLE THINK SOME FANS ARE OVERLY PICKY OVER DETAILS!?

WE NEED ANSWERS!

It fits in the far future of any timeline. There, problem solved.

Great answer. I care about the timeline, but like they said, it's all legends put together by one author which is what makes it so fun. The split in the timeline keeps it open to interpretation from gamer to gamer.

BotW goes nowhere in the timeline for me just yet, but it does give me the feeling that it's after Skyward Sword

Z:BotW is the only timeline. The rest of the games are just legends. These legends are apart of their world and thus they named things in their world after them. But I see BotW as a Zelda reboot.

Personally, I prefer the timeline to be a mystery. It creates a topic for discussion, bringing Zelda fans together as they try placing each game in proper chronology.

@thesilverbrick The problem I have with that cutscene is that it's one of only a few references to that timeline. There are more references to Windwaker honestly, such as Korok's and Rito existing where they have never been seen outside of Windwaker's timeline. Also the appearance of the King of Hyrule is closest to Windwaker's, and the fact that Rock Salt can be found EVERYWHERE in the game and it's item description alludes to the "Great Sea" from... Windwaker. Even the artstyle the game uses for it's character models is closer to Windwaker than anything else.

...That said, I don't think this game fits perfectly into the adult timeline, because the landscape of Hyrule closer matches up with the Downfall timeline, and as you pointed out the Child Timeline is specifically mentioned in a cutscene referencing Twilight.

My theory since I finished the game earlier this year, has always been that Breath of the Wild sits at the very end of the Zelda timeline, where all three timelines have merged back together. There are way too many references to every other game in the series, and I don't think it's too outrageous to think that after Ocarina, after thousands of years the timelines could re-stabilize and merge back together at some point.

@JHDK I always thought it was just a bunch of different myths and legends (except for certain games that have clear Link's like Ocarina and Majora's). It's fun to see some the speculations though.

EDIT: If anything, I feel like some games end up where they are in the "timeline" due to the setting they choose and past experience/preconceptions from past games which ends up with the devs fitting them into the timeline subconsciously.

My useless cultural studies degree helps me understand something! Japan, as a high context culture, is not fixated on clear and direct messages. The West, which is generally low context, attempts to see things in clear and quantifiable terms. Hence the rub on things like timelines and continuity.

Really? This is what those fools are focused on? Have they still not realized that their game is missing the Dutch dub that should've been included in it from the beginning?

@-DG I swore I wouldn’t get into timeline theory debate, but honestly, the Wind Waker timeline is the only one that doesn’t mesh with Breath of the Wild. Sure, the Koroks and Rito are present, but there’s no reason why those particular species couldn’t have evolved in another timeline, especially considering this game is so far into the future regardless of what timeline it’s in. The King of Hyrule’s resemblance to the one in Wind Waker is moot (as is the art style), especially considering that characters and the world in Four Swords Adventures (in a different timeline) strongly resemble everything in Wind Waker. As far as the rock salt is concerned, sure, it mentions a great sea, but even on our own planet, there are large sections of the continents that were once under the ocean, as evidenced by fossilized sea life at the top of mountains. The great sea mentioned in the description could easily just be any giant body of salt water in the past. Honestly, there are massive plot holes that would prevent Breath of the Wild from following Wind Waker, the largest of which being that Hyrule itself was destroyed and moved to a new location for the events of Spirit Tracks, and that the Master Sword was left at the bottom of the ocean in Ganondorf’s head. The Zora in Wind Waker had evolved into the Rito, yet are present in Breath of the Wild.

I mean, honestly, there are holes to be found in every timeline theory, but placing Breath of the Wild after Wind Waker is the most difficult to reconcile of the three.

@thesilverbrick Sure Rito and Korok's COULD have popped up in another timeline, but they already have in Windwaker, and yeah there could be many great sea's in the past, but Windwaker has one that covers ine entirety of Hyrule, and Rocksalt is found throughout the entire map of BotW. Also the Master sword being at the bottom of the ocean at the end of Windwaker, just means that the Master Sword was embedded in stone ( Ganon turned to stone ) somewhere in Old Hyrule.

If you think about it... the game could easily be after Windwaker, without any stretch of the imagination to get it there. I still believe the games take place after every timeline though, there's evidence that references every timeline in this game.

@-DG SPOILERS WIND WAKER : Except the end of Windwaker was all about the fact that Hyrule is definitely destroyed after the wish.
It's a Triforce wish, there's a lot of power behind this.
You can't just resurrect it like that, doesn't make any sense.

@Mopati ...I... Forgot about that one! lol. Also I have to admit I've never played Spirit Tracks, ( Only game in the timeline I haven't played. ) so that whole game could also ruin my theory.

I guess if Hyrule was destroyed then it would be pretty tough to place the game after Windwaker, but the idea could still hold. I never said BotW was ONLY after Windwaker. If the timelines were to stabalize all three timelines would just have to be similar enough to run together, so you'd have elements from every timeline. After ten thousand years it is possible, remember there's a huge gap between BotW, and the last Zelda game in any one of the three timelines.

@-DG To each his own. I personally feel the adult timeline is the most difficult to reconcile, mostly because Hyrule ceased to exist after Wind Waker. It was so completely gone that they created a new one far away, moving the entire royal family and legacy of the kingdom. It’s no stretch of the imagination to set Breath of the Wild after either of the other two timelines, and since Zelda herself says the Master Sword has been in the Twilight realm, I have no reason to place the game in any timeline other than the child one.

Several other people have put forward that this is a merged timeline, which sounds great in theory, except that it makes no sense whatsoever. How can multiple conflicting pasts exist at one single point in the future?

Again, you’re free to believe what you want since there’s nothing official, but placing Breath of the Wild thousands of years after Twilight Princess makes too much sense for me to believe anything else.

@thesilverbrick I agree with you, it DEFINITELY takes place after Twilight Princess. I mean... There's a cutscene that confirms it. lol. Now that you and @Mopati reminded me of the Triforce wish at the end of Windwaker, and informed me a bit about Spirit Tracks, I'm definitely doubting my theory.

Btw I don't mean to come off as rude or challenging or anything like that. I just think it's fun to talk about things like this since a lot of it is open to interpretation.

I think one of the only things we KNOW for a fact about BotW's timeline is that it is definitely at the END of the Zelda tineline currently.

I always thought BotW took place 10,000 years after every other Zelda. And then once Calamity Ganon destroyed Hyrule, we fast forward to 100 years after that, and that's when Link finally wakes up to begin his adventure.

The timeline used to be super important to me, though it’s very evident that the game creators don’t have a true timeline in mind when making the games. Putting together the history is definitely an after thought.

to be honest, before Skyward Sword, i didn't think there was a timeline, then i read something about a timeline but it didn't really add up.

My guess is the game devs didn't have a timeline in mind when making these games, but fans like to know trivial information like this so i dunno...

@-DG No worries at all; I never got the impression that you were being rude or challenging. Honestly, I enjoy discussion and debate like this, but I try to stay away from it because I can get a little too into it and kind of intense, haha.

You are right though; regardless of what timeline the game is technically part of, they did intend for it to be a final chapter in the story. At least for now, anyway.

I considered it was a reversed Ocarina of Time as well. After the timeline was torn apart it steadily collided again and Breath of the Wild is the new start of a single timeline.

I also consider the theory that Breath of the Wild is a fresh start entirely, and previous Zelda stories are legends long lost. They say it's left to the imagination and they don't seem too fond of the whole timeline concept in general so I don't think it's too far-fetched

@bezerker99 that much is definitely true. When it comes to BotW, people just don't know which timeline it lies in, but whichever it is, it's definitely at the end.

“But I think at this point, we’re not really at the stage where we want to talk about where Breath of the Wild is in the timeline”

Lol, because the timeline is completely nonsensical?

@Nomad The triforce is present. It's the sacred power that Zelda awakens in the game (which is used to seal Ganon away).

@-DG Oooooooooooh, I see! Right.......ok. Man, now to figure this new timeline out lol.

I only know that BotW is at the end of either the child or downfall timeline and I'm ok with that (although I prefer the downfall timeline since that's where Ganon <<Not Ganondorf>> usually hangout), but in my head canon, BotW is long after the lost pony wars.

@AlternateButtons
First off, the whole vibe screams nes Zelda to me, which in my very own opinion makes me feel like the downfall timeline is the one the developers intended it to be placed.

I’ve been reading a timeline placement theory page since botw came out, and in the hundreds of pages I have read from people trying to find the correct timeline, the game unfortunately reeks of all three.

Yes, the child timeline’s biggest connection is the Zelda speech referencing twilight. But nobody can explain the Zora tablets and how Ruto was mentioned as a sage even though she wouldn’t have been one in the child timeline.

I’m sorry my original post shot down the child timeline with poorly chosen words. To ME, the downfall timeline makes the most sense.

Disclaimer: Just want to say SPOILERS! first before my next words just in case there's someone that hasn't beaten BotW yet Better safe than sorry!

I love a good timeline discussion. In the real world sense, it "doesn't" matter, agreed, and playing the games is all that matters. But for some of us, we really get caught up on the lore when an event happens in a Zelda game that we can direct link to another Zelda. Being a fan of history in general, it's right up my alley as I love learning lore and histories from ancient times.

With all that said, I remember in the first place when Nintendo said that the Zelda's are all loosely tied together and to basically not worry about it, as it can be viewed as the same legend, retold/rebooted time and time again-- Then they release Hyrule Historia for the fans. In a way, HH was a bit of a trap for Nintendo-- I can understand them not wanting to commit to it, especially at this time. Making a great Zelda in BotW, even if it meant using tropes/characters/items/land masses/etc from EVERY Zelda game was objective 1, and that is why it's so hard for us Zelda lorists to place the game in the timeline. Inevitably, BotW WILL be placed as Nintendo opened pandora's box with making the HH.

The last thing I'll say is in regard to where I think BotW can be placed. A FEW fun facts (debatable) are below:

1) Rito and Koroks tie BotW to WW
2) Land map is 80%+ accurate to TP and just for good measure, Arbiter Grounds is suspiciously similar to The Seven Heroines, both of which were in the desert (For fun, overlay TP's Hyrule map on BotW's... pretty close land layout )
3) Lynels and Moblins tie BotW to Downfall timeline
4) Ganon first form suspiciously retaining his Ganondorf-ish face despite thousands upon thousands of years going by (as well as Ganon not speaking one word to Link) kind of tells me that his humanity (Ganondorf) was finally waning and his beast form (Ganon) would begin to dominate all future appearances. Also in TP, Ganon's first form was a 4 legged pig beast, same as the 2nd form of Ganon in BotW. Ganon in the downfall timeline was a pig beast too, but was bipedal and could still speak in that form (Though to be fair in LttP, Ganon "may" have still been human, but the dark world made him show his true form based on his heart.. by LoZ, he was full-time, beast mode, Ganon, so it's debatable).

I feel BotW is eons after TP, and in those eons, Rito, Koroks, Moblins, and Lynels all emerged, but I'm always game for a debate, further research, and explanations

@AlternateButtons
The “wild assumptions” line I used was meant to be my obviously poor attempt at some humor. I never mean offense when I post. The Zelda team can come out and say that botw is actually set in the mushroom kingdom for all I care. As long as the game is great (which it is), I won’t care in the end. So again, I apologize for coming off as the know-it-all for Zelda timeline placements.

@blondeandy Long comment warning, but only because you asked for it. Bracing...

Original release of Legend of Zelda - not much to say here as it's the starting point for the series.

Zelda II Adventure of Link - as the title suggests, this is a direct sequel. Ganon was defeated in the original, but elements in this game suggest that Link's defeat would be used to resurrect him. Also important to note that because of the NES limitations, story elements had to be kept small and relegated to manuals.

A Link to the Past - As the title suggests, this is a prequel to the NES games. With the advanced technology of the SNES story become much more involved. The first thing you see when starting the game is a story cutscene, detailing past events in Hyrule, AKA building up a lot of lore for the Zelda universe. This is the game that introduced sages, the sacred realm turned darkworld, and NPC characters being more important for the story.

Ocarina of Time - This game is filled with lore. It gives a creation story of Hyrule very early in the game, and is full of cultural lore for all of the different races present in Hyrule, like Volvagia being an ancient enemy of the Gorons, which makes Ganondorf placing it in their sacred Fire Temple all the more significant, rather than just a random boss. The story easily places it again as a prequel to all previous games as it explains the origins of the villain Ganon as well as how he came to be sealed in the sacred realm, which leads directly into A Link to the Past.

Wind Waker - Starting the game, immediately get a story/lore cutscene just like A Link to the Past. Again, full of cultural lore throughout the game. The sacred trio guardians speak in a fully realized version of Hylian which can be translated. Story elements detail how the game takes place long after Ocarina of Time, and the world map matches up largely with the world map from OoT if you imagine it flooded.

Skyward Sword - Starting the game, immediately given a story/lore cutscene. Story and lore explains how Skyloft even exists, the origins of the master sword and the perpetual cycle of hero, descendant of the Goddess, and hate is mentioned by Demise, which easily places it as another prequel to the rest of the series. We learn that Link is the first humanoid/hylian to obtain the triforce. Zelda is a reincarnated deity who sacrificed her own form as part of a greater plan.

Then direct sequels like Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Majora's Mask fit within their places in the timeline and offer their own lore about the worlds they take place in, such as the demons and spirits from the new land that Spirit Tracks takes place in.

Other games though are harder to place in the timeline (without Hyrule Historia forcing them to exist somewhere), even though they offer plenty of lore. Games like Twilight Princess are full of references to other games, but the lore and story events make it harder to place beyond some time after Ocarina of Time. This is because despite the series being very developed by this point, a lot of lore elements aren't explained well, if at all, so we have things like the hero's shade, a ruined temple of time that both houses the master sword (OoT reference) and is in a forest far away from Hyrule Castle Town (A Link to the Past reference) and more.

@greengecko007 I appreciate the effort you've taken here. And i also appreciate there is a running lore throughout the series. There is a general story that runs across all these games, i just feel that outside of the direct sequels(that are signposted and storied as such) it's the same story being retold but in a different setting or era. And all of this is beautiful in it's own way. What i take issue with is this idea of retrofitting a timeline to something that was already written before anyone thought of timelines. It's silly. I also don't want all future zeldas to have to tell a story that fits with the others, i want a zelda game to exist in it's own right. I've just spent far too much time watching Last Jedi reviews that were effectively people getting upset about a perfectly good film because it "ruined" the lore. I don't need that in my zelda games, i want a game with good mechanics and for the most part to hell with the story. It was always a sideline anyway...

As long they bring back the old school Legend of Zelda Ocarina/Majoras mask dungeons back i'm in

In other words: we dont know and we dont care and the timeline means nothing.

@blondeandy Zelda II’s story clearly follows up the events of the original game in too many ways to list.

ALTTP was advertised as a prequel with the ancestors of the original Link and Zelda in both Nintendo Power and the back of the game’s box.

LA’s story/manual specifically states that it’s the same hero from ALTTP (and, thus, a sequel).

OOT took the backstory of ALTTP and expanded on it, thus a prequel to ALTTP.

MM was clearly a sequel to OOT.

The Oracle games made a specific connection to LA with the ship.

So, you have the first 6-8 games in the series with clear sequel/prequel relationships to one another and a general story flow. It’s not until the last 14 years or so where things started to get muddied (ironically around the time the games openly embraced the multiple Links theory).

@Devlind Ok thanks, I must have missed that on my playthrough. I'll have to go back and check it out. It seems that they kept the whole Triforce thing rather low key.

It's pretty smart for them to be so bad with their timeline I think. The more people put out theories, the more it brings in discussion for the game and keeps it in people's minds. If it was clearly in one place, people would have found their answer and moved on quickly.

@Nego I know right. I'd be happy if Nintendo just ended the debate and said it's at the end. No fuss.

@greengecko007 @Oat @thesilverbrick (and others in this article's comment section), it's great to see other people who are fans of the timeline!

@thesilverbrick I used to think it was in the child timeline, but BotW HAS to take place far into the future in which all three timelines have merged. Zelda mentions twilight in her speech, and the in-game text that is present when you acquire Midna's Helmet specifically references the Hero of Twilight. It definitely takes place in the child timeline. BUT the tablets of the Zoras specifically refer to Ruto (the sage from Ocarina of Time). Not only that, but they specifically mention how she became a sage to help a hero. She only becomes a sage in the downfall and adult timelines, so it has to take place in one of those as well.

Long story short, unless BotW takes place in the future of only two fused timelines (which would be a bit of an odd decision), it takes place in a far future in which all three timelines have merged. Honestly I think the developers know this themselves, they probably want to just keep the speculation among fans going for a while before revealing this.

@shadow-wolf Again, the merged timeline sounds great in theory, except it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How can three conflicting pasts all exist at one point in time? There is no way to reconcile that.

The Zelda timeline is what happens when the stupidity of the internet wins

Personally I enjoy each game’s story on its own and I don’t bother myself with this timeline stuff. And I think that’s what the developer wanted to say in a polite way to those geeks out there

@The2ndQuest the back of the ALTTP box advertises Link and Zelda as predeccesors of the original cast, so yes, when you play story of ALTTP, you basically play the story taking place before the first and second game of the series
...but i disagree with LA, since there is no note in the manual about Link being the same hero as Link in ALTTP...there is also no direct connection between LA and the Oracle series, the ship you say? nah, that is only a vague argument...in the Oracle of Ages manual there is written that Link was plucked from Hyrule by the Triforce so that is why he was travelling to the other land ...there is nothing like this mentioned in the LA manual or box

@GravyThief there is no timeline, but the fact is that a few games of the series are connected in some way

It must suck to not be able to just say "we make it up as we go along, stop being silly" even when they're thinking it.

Does this contain spoilers? I don’t want to read this until I absolutely know for sure.

@thesilverbrick I get what you're saying. Personally, I don't think the idea is any more ridiculous than the idea of three split timelines. And if a merged timeline is the route they decided to go, they can easily come up with some event or device (probably the Triforce itself) that caused them all to merge and therefore, all three timelines and its events are recognized (convoluted as it might sound) as part of Hyrule's history.

Edit: I think for less confusion, I would say pieces of each timeline are recognized or acknowledged. Ultimately, the concept isn't foreign to popular culture, comics being famous for having timelines overlap and merge.

@Dezzy They can easily say that. I think in their minds, interest in the timeline equals interest in the game. Which is true to a degree. So they do their part in keeping the discussion going.

@blondeandy I think Zelda games will be okay regardless of how they approach the story. I don't think fans are gonna be any less enthusiastic about them if it's story trying to be shoehorned onto a timeline.

@thesilverbrick I agree, it does make no sense. However, there's no other way to explain how twilight and the Hero of Twilight are referenced, and the fact that Ruto became a sage is explicitly referenced as well. Ruto definitely did not become a sage in the child timeline. Ergo it cannot be taking place in just one timeline. I agree though, it does make no sense, but whatever I guess.

@UmbreonsPapa A split timeline can make sense. Depending on how events unfold, things can go in different directions. But the idea of timelines coming back together can’t even be explained. Either something happened or it didn’t. For instance, in the world of Breath of the Wild, Hyrule was either destroyed by a flood in the past or it wasn’t. The hero either defeated Ganondorf or he didn’t. It can’t be both. It makes no sense for timelines to merge. Such a concept can’t be reconciled in any way, never mind one that makes sense.

@shadow-wolf There are ways around the Ruto thing (not a super satisfying explanation, but it’s better than nothing). We have no idea what became of her after the events of Ocarina of Time in the child timeline. It’s entirely possible that she awakened as a Sage later on to assist the hero in a different endeavor. In fact, we do see a spirit incarnation of the Sage of Water in Twlight Princess (incidentally it’s the one that gets killed by Ganon with the Sword of the Six Sages). Granted, I know it’s kind of a stretch, but Nintendo has left me very little to work with here and it makes marginally more sense than timelines coming together, haha.

Also, I don’t think the descriptions of the DLC costumes and amiibo-exclusive items can be taken as canon. If that were true, the Nintendo Switch exists in that universe, as does the entire world of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. The costumes are simply Easter eggs, as they have no bearing on the story and were added afterwards.

@thesilverbrick Fair enough. I wasn't necessarily suggesting a merged one was more less sensible logically than a split one. Its definitely easy to tackle a split one than a merged one. Just that the concepts of timelines being split or merged is silly in general. I did add a quick edit to my original post pointing out that converging timelines in fiction isn't a novel concept. Yet, probably the easier route would be to pick and choose which events are recognized and which aren't. Or maybe some Hylians and races lived with knowledge of one timeline and some with another. Therefore, different accounts could co-exist even if the events themselves didn't.

Again, this is all just some food for thought.

@cowntsikin It doesn't have anything in common with the original zelda besides vague gameplay mechanics, though.

@UmbreonsPapa I hear ya. Splitting a timeline is as simple as considering cause-and-effect. If events happen or don’t happen, they affect the future indefinitely, creating a split. Merging timelines back together, on the other hand, doesn’t work, considering that multiple timelines are created by conflicting events in the first place that simply can’t coexist by definition. Picking and choosing which events did or didn’t happen isn’t exactly merging timeline together as much as it is creating a completely new one. The stream of time isn’t a buffet.

Discussions like this are fascinating to me, and I don’t intend to come across as antagonistic or a know-it-all. Just wanted to make sure I’m not giving that impression.

Honestly, the real problem is that Nintendo really doesn’t care about the timeline. It’s their right to not completely honor it, but it makes me wonder why they even had published in the first place if they don’t intend to abide by it.

"Honestly, lately, we’re kind of scared to say exactly where things are in the timeline for that reason."

I think that this comment is the most important thing I've read about the timeline. If the creators of the games themselves aren't 100% positive about where things land in the timeline, then the rest of us are putting too much stock into this.

I get the feeling that, seeing as BotW is set 10,000 years after every other timeline, that the intention was for all the old games to truly become legends.
However, there are too many physical remnants left over from other Zelda games for me to be actually content with that idea.
SPOILERS:
If Ocarina of Time is a fable, how come you can go to the Lon Lon Ranch ruins? How come Urbosa says Ganon once was Ganondorf, taking the form of a Gerudo?
If Twilight Princess is a myth, how come you can go to the Arbiter's Grounds? How come Zelda specifically references the Twilight Realm?

I don't think it's too inconceivable that the Korok and Rito could have evolved in timelines other than the Adult Timeline, so people who naysay the idea of it being anywhere but there confuse me.
So, to me, the only Timeline that truly makes sense in terms of hints the game gives the player is the Child TImeline. But if it's decided somewhere down the line that BotW definitely, for sure, takes place in none of the timelines and instead 'converges' them, I can be content with that. But for now, I'll fight for it being set after Four Swords Adventures until my dying days!

@ObeliskDrakon where is Arbiter's Grounds in BotW?

@cowntsikin In Gerudo Desert, friend

I have only played a few Zelda games, but I feel that this game is really far from the others (the closest being Oot imo). We've seen the Sheikah technology that is extremely advanced and no one in the game (apart from Impa and her sister[in a way]) knows how this technology existed. Also, the game mentions that all the hatred that has existed withing Ganondorf is ready to give a final stance to rule the world and that's the appearance of Dark Beast Ganon, which is all that evil passed down. I feel like this game is on its own timeline in the end of The Legend of Zelda series. I may be wrong since there are many Zelda games that I still have to play, but I believe that this is in the end of all the other games (with a possible 10,000 year void between the last game in the timeline before BotW came). I'd like to hear more about other games to know and I'd love to learn about the beautiful game that Zelda is.

Pfffff...The Mario timeline is more interesting anyways:

https://cdn.destructoid.com//ul/288472-tomm-hulett-s-unified-mario-timeline-theory/Mario-Timeline-Smaller-Web2-noscale.jpg

It's either:
A) we don't know
B) f- the time line
C) it's a clean slate
D) who cares, play the game

It's either:
A) we don't know
B) f- the time line
C) it's a clean slate
D) who cares, play the game

It's either:
A) we don't know
B) f- the time line
C) it's a clean slate
D) who cares, play the game

Zelda games have always been something more like a multiverse fanchise than a timeline one, at least for me. Perhaps one or two in the same universe, but not all of them. I guess it makes more sense in this way.

@BlackenedHalo I may be misremembering the source but I thought it was the manual. If not, there is definitively an original reference somewhere specifying that it’s the same Link/hero “from ALTTP” (if memory serves, it even had the picture of Link with it). It’s come up in Zelda timeline discussions before over the past 15+ years so I made a point of remembering it’s existence. I’ll try to find it (a little harder these days since so many search results talk about Hyrule Historia now).

As far as the Oracles go, the implication is that they are set after ALTTP (as Ganon is defeated/trying to be resurrected) and the ship at the end is the ship from LA’s opening sequence, implying that was where Link was going next.

However, I acknowledge that that connection is less concrete that those that are between the previous games, which is why I specified “6-8 games”in my initial comment (6 if you don’t count the Oracles, 8 if you do).

This looks nice and all. However what I want to see is a free ROM download of the switch version of BOTW. Perhaps a kind NintendoLife editor or even a moderator can point me n the right direction? After all they do advocate such illegal activity.

I can't believe timeline deniers still exist.

I have one more thing to bring up and its the idea that each game is just a retelling of the original legend. Which I can understand on the level that for the most part, each game involves the curse involving Link/Zelda/Ganon in some aspect. @Obeliskdragon sort of touches on this in his first post.

What I want to know is beyond the cycle, how can each game be chalked up to a retelling of the original if, thematically, there are extreme differences between the games with allusions made to past games and stories?

Zelda “timeline” makes absolute no sense or has any relevance at all. It’s not like Metroid, where each game clearly has a chronological connection of events and lore. Each Zelda feels like its own thing and they never give importance to previous events, except in rare cases of direct sequels like Majora’s Mask or Zelda II, or a few subtle character background like the relationship between Koroks and Lost Woods. The rest are just easter eggs. “Remember that place? Remember that character? We’ve put those here for no reason.”

Not to mention it became a huge mess after Ocarina of Time released and people started questioning which game came first in the timeline.

No one ever asks about a Mario timeline...

New to Zelda as a whole and botw is the first game I have played for more than 20 minutes.

The timeline does not concern me. Just love the game. Kind of want to go back tho and play some of the others? Where to start. Have been looking at windwaker.

There is no timeline, Nintendo are just tryna be diplomatic. The only connection is Ocarina and Majora.

Alternate universes is a more workable theory. Lol.

@thesilverbrick I don't think there is a workaround regarding Ruto. It's been well documented in Twilight Princess IIRC that after Link warned Zelda, they caught Ganondorf and set off the events of TP. There was no time or need for Ruto to become a water sage. Plus, the water sage they show in TP is clearly not Ruto, showing that she never became a sage simply because she never experienced the need to do so (the "need" being Ganondorf taking over the kingdom).

@shadow-wolf I’m aware of everything you’re saying. But you missed my point. I didn’t say Ruto could’ve become a sage to help Link defeat Ganondorf. I’m saying it’s possible the sages could’ve awakened for some other reason after the events of the child timeline, and clearly, sages of some kind did awaken, because we see them in Twilight Princess. And sure, the sages in Twilight Princess look nothing like the ones in Ocarina, but they bear the same exact elemental emblems. It’s entirely possible that the sages ascend to some sort of spirit form over time and therefore end up looking identical to each other. Again, I never claimed it wasn’t a stretch, but you can find ways around it.

@liveswired Many Zelda games are clearly connected, even if you don’t ascribe to the timeline. Wind Waker clearly references the events of Ocarina of Time, as does Twilight Princess. Phantom Hourglass features the same Link as Wind Waker. And Spirit Tracks opens by retelling the events of Phantom Hourglass. To say that Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask are the only two connected Zelda games couldn’t be more wrong.

@thesilverbrick True, anything could happen - it all depends on what the creators of the series choose to make canon. Which is all the more infuriating when they choose not to do that ...

@shadow-wolf Yup, it’s super frustrating. I can usually find ways to make it all work, but I shouldn’t have to do that. Nintendo foolishly issued an official timeline and then quickly dismissed it and refused to abide by it. How much sense does that make?

@thesilverbrick I don't consider the DS Zelda games true Zelda games.

They look horrid with touch controls, perhaps if they had texture filtering and a resolution above 192p with analogue control maybe.

Kinda like Metroid Prime Federation Force or Metroid Other M - I don't even consider those horrid 3rd party mess ups Metroid related.

@liveswired What you do or don’t consider a Zelda game doesn’t make the reality any different. And even if you don’t want to consider the DS Zelda games for personal reasons, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess clearly reference the events of Ocarina of Time.

@thesilverbrick Yeah I dislike that myself, so I guess we'll wait and see. Maybe they'll start valuing the timeline again in the future?

@Kwehst What about the Koroks?

@MikeWill I think the consensus is that since the Kokiri were able to transform into koroks for Wind Waker, it’s not impossible for them to do the same for botw, especially since there is at least 10,000 years difference between it and any other potential game.

In the end though, I highly doubt Nintendo cared about timeline placement. There are just too many nods to all of the timelines. Trying to pinpoint where botw goes within it is truly futile.

@gaga64 Sorry for the eight months necro, I’m very late to the BotW party.
I find it very interesting that the original Japanese version mentioned the Adult and Fall timelines, while the English version only mentions the Child timeline.