Super Mario Odyssey has been out in the wild for a week, and it's safe to say that its launch couldn't have gone much better. Critically acclaimed, to the sort of levels seen with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, it's also been a notable commercial success. Switch owners have rushed to buy it, breaking sales records in the US, battling the big boys in the UK charts and smashing it out of the park in Japan, for a few examples. If Nintendo had ambitious targets before release, there's every chance they've been exceeded regardless.
Many players, including some that we know wouldn't typically lose a weekend to game like this, became utterly immersed when it arrived, and the buzz has been significant. This week we ran polls asking the Nintendo Life community to choose the 'best Super Mario game' - as we write thousands have voted and Odyssey has dominated, taking over 40% of the vote. It's crushed what was the previous undisputed champ among our readers, Super Mario World.
Now, let's remember that buzz and hype around a shiny new game plays a part, but even with that in mind the results are eye-opening. It may interest some that in our review for the game this writer originally said the following, a line we took out because it wasn't the right platform for the debate.
It's unclear whether Super Mario Odyssey claims the throne as the best Mario game so far, but it's certainly in the conversation.
That line was originally included partly due to 'the fear' that can strike a reviewer. Basically, when awarding a game 10/10, even when happy with the conviction of that decision, there's always a dread that the popular consensus will be drastically different. It's not about towing a line with what others say, but a curiosity and uncertainty over an individual's interpretation of a game's merits before it's out in the world. That top mark is always reserved for the best of the best, so whenever it's in the offing there's debate and extra thought as a result.
The line was also wrestling with a common issue - how do you compare Mario games? We're sure some of you had the same thought when voting in our polls. How do you weigh up 2D vs 3D? Even in 3D we have 'sandbox' games like 64, Sunshine and Odyssey, and then more structured linear titles like Galaxy 1 & 2. All have their own merits, and so declaring the 'best' out of them is tricky.
So, aside from the evidently popular opinion that seems to rate Odyssey as the finest of Mario games (and therefore surely one of the best games ever made), what arguments can be made to justify that? Well, let's think of some.
In some ways, Super Mario Odyssey is a little like its home system, the Switch. When Nintendo unveiled the Switch fully in its January presentation it tried to pitch it as an accumulation of three decades of hardware development. That does ring true to a certain degree - it has portability to embrace what has always been Nintendo's most lucrative market, its Joy-Con controllers offer multiplayer out of the box along with motion controls and clever features to use in gameplay, and it also offers conventional console gaming on a TV. That all-in-one approach rightly concerned some, but so far it's paid off handsomely. The Switch has the DNA and elements of various Nintendo systems.
Odyssey is similar, though the bulk of its inspiration comes from Super Mario 64. It makes no secret of that, and there are bits of Sunshine in there too - that was inevitable with the 'sandbox' approach. That said, Nintendo's teams also included numerous nods and winks to the other 3D Mario games, and of course there are 'retro' 2D sequences thrown in. When you add the Cappy 'capture' mechanics to that it actually sounds like the game could be overcrowded, full of too many ideas to be cohesive. In fact, pre-review and before experiencing the game, this scribe repeatedly expressed reservations in private about how the game would 'flow'; would it come together as a cohesive experience, or just be a collection of playgrounds with little to tie them together?
It's a critic's job to be, well, a critic, but in hindsight we should have known better. Nintendo's 'B teams' can occasionally put out mediocre games, but the 'A teams' very rarely disappoint. Nintendo evidently had its top talent producing Odyssey, and it's a design masterclass. For veteran gamers it finds ways to surprise and twist conventions, driven not only by the capture mechanic but also the layout of the stages. The further you go, too, the more it trusts your abilities and provides optional tricky areas to tackle, many of which are hived off and essentially take the form of linear levels. As you complete a playthrough you realise that you're gradually getting the best of both worlds - freedom to explore and experiment, along with linear sequences and challenges to test your platforming skills. There are organic and clever worlds with which to interact, and also delightful levels that have been carefully crafted.
More importantly, Super Mario Odyssey makes Mario playable for everyone. We know some purists don't like 'Assist Mode', but it does no harm as it's optional. Its clever features, however, mean that this writer knows at least one Switch owner enjoying the game that has never played a Mario title before. They also invested dozens of hours in Breath of the Wild, despite having never played a Zelda game before. Nintendo is creating experiences that are for everyone and can, conceivably, entertain any player willing to give them a try.
What that means, ultimately, is that games are evolving. While playing something like Super Mario World (without save states) there's the fear of game over. That won't happen in Odyssey. Without peril, without the fear that makes players focus and become immersed as a result, the design and sheer joy of playing has to stack up. That's where Super Mario Odyssey succeeds. We've read comments online of players that typically enjoy more 'mature' games spending an hour simply running and jumping, basking in the pleasure of Mario's movement. It's that tight connection between Mario and the controller, placed within colourful, wacky and imaginative worlds, that's so captivating.
That, we'd suggest, is Super Mario Odyssey's greatest triumph. Other Mario games typically cater to specific types of gamers, due to the level of challenge, the way they control, or indeed the structure they follow. The Switch masterpiece, by contrast, can be enjoyed by anyone at their own speed. It's the ultimate entry point for those yet to fall in love with Mario games, and the culmination of 32 years of progress for those that have played them all.
Perhaps it truly is the greatest Super Mario game - so far...
Eh, its good but its not the best, thats super mario world tied with mario galaxy for me personally
It certainly seems like it could be on the surface, but I usually give something new time to settle in before I start calling it the best of all time.
It might be truly great in many people's opinions but it doesn't even come close the all-round perfection that titles like Super Mario Bros.3 (the All-Stars version, for me at least, since that has the gorgeous 16-bit sprite art and actual save slots too), Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island are.
I'm not going to bother pointing out the many ways that it isn't close to being perfect*, even as genuinely amazing as it is, because it will just get people's backs up if I point out a bunch of [obvious] issues I have with the game--most of which certain people will absolutely come up with some defense/excuse for--again, even as obviously brilliant as it is.
And that's all I have to say about that.
*Edit: Inevitably, I ended up doing this below anyway.
All about Super Mario 3, although that may be purely nostalgic as it was the 1st ever game that I played.
In terms of abundance of contest and accessibility? Sure, greatest Mario game.
It lacks the magic and gravitas of Mario Galaxy, though. And the emphasis on motion controls conflicts with its hybrid design. And, for some people, the moons are so plentiful that they're not as memorable as the stars from previous games. And the ending is fairly disappointing, considering the build-up.
It's a legitimately fantastic game, but let's give people time to get past the honeymoon period.
It's the best for me! Super Mario world is my second fav. Both are good though.
They might be truly great in many people's opinions but it doesn't even come close the all-round perfection that Super Mario Odyssey is.
Joyful, delightful game. Always brings a smile to my face.
"The Switch masterpiece, by contrast, can be enjoyed by anyone at their own speed"
3D Marios are only enjoyed by Nintendo fans and "hardkrr gmrz" and game journalists that want Nintendo go third party and join forces with Microsoft. This is the same case.
Good not Great game.
@Nintendoforlife Can't tell if serious.
But, if you are serious, you are clearly blinded by the glare of something shiny and new, and it's clear, to me at least, that you need some time to let the massive hype sink down and allow yourself to see the game in its true light (warts and all).
Again, it's still an amazing game, but it's not even close to being flawless--and that [surely] must factor in when ranking it alongside some of the other sublime Super Mario games in any reasonable person's opinion (seeing as some of the other Super Mario games basically are flawless).
Games like Super Mario Bros. 3 (All-Stars version), Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island, despite being around twenty-thirty years old apiece, basically are nigh-on perfect for all intents and purposes (outside of random idiotic criticisms that apply only in someone's highly subjective and distorted world view, like the graphics are "old", as if "old" automatically matter-of-fact equals "bad", or some other junk like that).
Edit: I can see now that you were just childishly mocking me and your post was created for no purpose other than pure antagonism.
What if this was subjective?
Like... Everyone have a different answer because you cannot quantify how good a game is?
SMB3 for 2D Mario
Galaxy for 3D Mario
I haven't played Odyssey yet, so until then, these are my picks.
What I don't understand is how SM64 is part of the conversation when Galaxy 1 and 2 are a thing.
@Mopati You definitely can quantify how good a game is.
@impurekind No, I'm just pointing out how you basically discredited their opinions, while making yours appear to be fact.
Way better than the Galaxy games, 2D Mario games, 3D Land/World, and 64, that's for sure. Not sure if it'll beat Sunshine as my favorite, since I'm only at the Metro Kingdom, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I think a decent amount of people will prefer the Galaxy games, and I don't understand why. I know it's all opinion, but those games are just so boring to me. So easy and simple, with planets that all blend together and aren't distinct at all. I can remember all of the worlds in 64 and Sunshine, but I couldn't tell you the name of a single planet in Galaxy 1 and 2.
@Nintendoforlife They said "The Case for Super Mario Odyssey as the Greatest Mario Game"
So, they are making an argument that Super Mario Odyssey is the greatest Mario game, and presenting it like it's some kind of provable assertion borne out by a bunch of objective facts that might be put forward in some imaginary court of videogame law (hence the use of the word "case").
I said "No!", and I continued to give my reasons why I do not believe any said argument for Super Mario Odyssey being the "Greatest Mario Game" is truly valid imo (I said it's got quite a few flaws, whereas some of the other Mario games basically haven't).
Are you arguing that is somehow wrong, that I simply can't do this?
If not, what is the point of your comment? Antagonism? Being a ****? Immaturity? Just wanting to get some attention in the comments section? Getting all defensive because someone in here is trying to be a bit more rational and judgmental and not immediately getting carried away on the hype train before the dust has even settled? Modern day Nintendo fanboyism? Other?
@Fazermint You can say a game is good or bad depending on the general consensus, and sometimes know in advance because it's close to other games that are already known as good or not.
You can say a game is good or not.
But you cannot exactly quantify how good or bad it is.
I liked it somewhat but personally Galaxy 2 and then 3D World are my top 2 followed by Odyssey. All three are lovely games.
It's a good game and it's shiny but it's not on the level of mario 64 or either of the galaxies.
I love the game and it's mechanics but the challenge is not really there. And after some time your just grinding. I think I bought 50 moons, yes bought not rewarded. Most of the moons maybe 75% of the moons are just given to you or you just bump into it.
It is a great game with great ideas
Just finished the main game last night and REALLY enjoyed it. I'll go back to it at the weekend. I'd class it as one of the best.
I've tried to play m64 over the years, just could never get into it. Sunshine was my favourite, same with World and 3, Odyssey seems to be taking that spot for now.
On a side note, I loved 3D Land on the 3ds, it was so good, and 2 games in one, but I absolutely hated 3d world on wiiu, just felt, this is too easy, co-op gameplay, boring. Possibly the worst in the main line mario series for me.
Where is he? Without Luigi it is patently impossible for this to be teh greatest Mario game. I mean, it's the daggone Mario BROTHERS, people! The excuse with Mario 64 was development time and different skill set. No excuse here, with so much extra content and costumes, etc. etc. Luigi should be selectable and playable from the title screen.. If they have to change the princess to Daisy or something in that case, so be it, for the wedding's sake, but you can't just leave out Nintendo's greatest character.
I agree with you 100%
@Mopati You can systematically analyze games and map them to an arbitrary but meaningful scale.
@subpopz By that logic you can chalk everything down to subjectivity which makes every conversation pretty much obsolete.
@impurekind Can you elaborate on the points that keep it from being perfect? I've only played a demo and I wasn't particularly impressed. But after reading nothing but praise for the game I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say about it.
@impurekind I wouldn't say whether Odyssey is the best because it's too new to determine but your entire argument is an opinion you state like fact. Super Mario World has always been my favorite but SMW, SMB3, and Yoshi's Island are nowhere near perfect because there is no such thing as perfect. They're great games that stood the test of time, something that can't be claimed about Odyssey so early. Of course people are blinded by it being new and shiny, but claiming your favorites are objectively the best is being blinded by nostalgia. Comparing 3D Mario and 2D Mario is apples and oranges anyways, they're two different genres for all intents and purposes (a third dimension adds a lot of complexity to level design). Attacking Nintendoforlife just because he disagrees with you is not cool though, it's not immaturity to have a different viewpoint, the world would be boring if everyone liked the same things.
On another subject I think oranges are the greatest ever fruit. Fact! I don’t know where all you “Apples” guys get off.
@impurekind What are you getting worked up about? I'm not here to argue with you, but I have two things to say.
1. Your comment before you graciously edited it (Yeah I noticed) did not include the phrase "in my opinion" or "to me atleast". All you said was their opinions were wrong, let me tell you what you should think.
2. I don't give a crap how you feel about that game. You can say WHATEVER you want as long as you present it as your opinion. I'll only call you out if you present it as fact, which you did. Enjoy the rest of your day.
@ShadJV It's no big deal to me.
It's difficult to compare and say which is the best because some of the games are over 20 years old. For me, I enjoyed Galaxy 1 the most but I think Super Mario 64 is the greatest achievement simply because it was Mario in 3D FOR THE FIRST TIME and it was goooood. Odessey is the best game sure but only because it's using all the best elements from all previous Mario games. It's difficult drawing lines between the games in this franchise imo. The only thing i really care about is that Super Mario Odessey even though I'm almost 30 years old blew... Me...... Awaaaay!
All this hype and I can’t even play it. My wife is making me wait and it’s killing me. Ugh...
Look, of course people are hyped about it now, it's what they are currently playing. We need to wait for the dust to settle and judge it rationally. I can tell you that Super Mario World, Super Mario 64 and both Galaxy games have something to say about this. It's definitely the best looking technically and biggest but that's because technology improves with time.
It's good but not that good, even as far as 3D Mario games go I'd say both Galaxy games and Mario 64 got it beat.
You can't make a judgment like this a week after release. Few people have had a chance to play the game for more than a few hours, if at all. That's not enough time for people to decide if the game becomes tedious or repetitive.
Remember that Skyward Sword was released to universal critical acclaim and it took months for the backlash to develop. I think Skyward Sword is phenomenal, but a lot of people disagree with me.
I’ll come at this argument from a slightly different angle:
Odyssey has brought me around to liking ‘3D Mario’ as much as other people like past games like Galaxy. I understand why people get all hypey about past 3D Mario games like Galaxy but it just wasn’t in my bones after playing them.
For the first time I’m as excited about a 3D Mario with Odyssey as others have been about the Super Mario series in the past.
@Fazermint And most people will tell you "This game is bad, this score is too big!" and other "This is underrated, this need a better score.".
By doing an average score of everyone's opinion, you will give an accurate score only to a small portion of the players.
(The exact portion can also change depending of the actual game you are giving a score.)
And for the other players? It will be false for them.
If 50% of a group of people like a game, and the other 50% dislike it, would you give 5/10? It will be inaccurate for all of them. A good score? For half of them. A bad one? Half again.
See what I mean? You cannot quantify something subjective.
It's not even a Mario game.
@Kevember Well, here's just a few examples, and these are my personal views of things that I find somewhat lacking in this particular Mario game (and, yes, many of them are around presentation and the like, but I think that particular area of any game design is important, it always has been, even with the whole "gameplay > graphic" notion, and even the older games excelled in this regard imo):
The HUD/GUI looks slightly amateur, kinda place-holder and programmer art-ish imo, and visually mismatched with the rest of the visual style/look of the game and also intrudes on the game space a bit too much for my liking (and this is coming from a guy with qualifications and years of experience in art and design, so you can disagree on a personal level but I'm not just pulling nothing out of thin are here).
Some of the visuals in a few of the levels just look a bit meh or basically incongruent with the Mario universe imo, like the whole "Dark Souls" style levels that just looks like it belongs in another game and was made by a whole other team and then just shoved in this game to be honest (and, again, see the bit above about having degrees and qualified experience in this field and not pulling it just out of thin air).
The levels often suffer from the same issue that most modern 3D Mario platformers similarly suffer from, where they don't really convincingly convey as sense of taking place in a bigger world that exists beyond the confines of the level areas/platforms themselves. This is usually a result of, imo, kinda lazy skybox design for any areas beyond the main play space. Use a bear minimum amount of geometry in the distance and then a very basic skybox, which just does not do a great job of making these levels feel like anything other than glorified obstacle courses of are best mid-sized sandboxes floating in basically a wrapper bit of art that fails at the illusion of making the levels seem like real areas in a real place, which you simply can't move beyond because of believable and natural boundaries like giant cliffs, mountains, open sea, or whatever other structures that might normally prevent you stepping beyond the boundary of the level area in, imo, better designed "sandbox" or somewhat "open-world" level design.
Pretty much all the boss battles have the same artificial and forced glowing ring around them to lock of the immediate play area, and this just screams of slightly lazy design to me. I know Nintendo's amazing designers could have come up with more creative and satisfying ways to restrict the players area of movement during most of these battles if they really wanted to: Some could have taken place on high rock pillars where they player would be unable to fall off the edge of they'd die, or they could have been on the deck of a boat floating on the sea (or in the air) where the player would again die (or have to swim back up or something) if they fall off, or they could have been inside a cave that acts as a natural barrier, or the boss could have picked up a bunch of logs and launched the around Mario forming an impassible wall that you can only pass once the boss is beaten and falls into it and knocks it down, or Bowser could shoot out fireballs and create a ring of fire that Mario can't get past and burns until the end of the fight where the boss trips into a water container or something and dowses the flames . . . and that kind of thing.
Do you at the every least at least get where I'm coming from here?
Now, when I go back and apply that same kind of thinking to a game like Super Mario World, it's basically nigh-on perfect imo: think the HUD/GUI, the overall art/style and consistency throughout the game, the way the levels feel like they exist beyond the confines of the 2D play area (even though the game is only 2D too), and the how the boss battles play out (even within the boundaries of the edge of the TV screen) . . .
Now, I know a whole bunch of people will come up with their own defences/excuses and counter arguments, but these things are there, and someone might say, "well, I like the HUD/GUI, and everything is subjective anyway", but that doesn't mean it's not incongruent with the visual style of the rest of the game and it doesn't change the fact that it often overlays across quite a bit of the in-game action when it didn't have to--as an example.
@Nintendoforlife I edit ALL my posts a few times to try and make sure I'm getting across my point as originally intended. I'm only human, and sometimes it takes a couple of edits so it reads mostly correct (to me at least).
Maybe you could have exercised some patience before spouting out a random contrary comment, which just copied mine and reversed it, for what appears to be no other reason than to childishly antagonize. Just a thought.
Super mario Galaxy used a lot more motion controls than Odyssey.
I honestly feel Odyssey is the greatest 3D Mario game. I've been playing Mario since the NES and Odyssey hits all the right notes for a Mario veteran.
At the same time, my kids have been having a great time with the game. Odyssey has an accessibility that Galaxy lacks - and this makes it very special.
@impurekind Enjoy the rest of your day
@Nintendoforlife You too.
@ShadJV I state it like a fact because I believe it to be one, for all intents and purposes*.
Am I not allowed to do that in your world?
*And, if I were to go through all the things that make each game brilliant, great, good, bad, etc., then I could list all the ways this view is borne out as I see it (from things like presentation and graphics to controls, gameplay and level design, etc.)
Again, in the same way the person that wrote the article is presenting their case for arguing that Super Mario Odyssey is the greatest Mario game, I am stating that I do not believe this to be the case (and, I initially did not care to list a load of examples because I know people like you will just drag it out for too long and come up with statements like "everything is subjective anyway", so I was just trying to avoid wasting breath on such stuff (which I personally consider utter drivel based on ignorance of how such judgements on the quality of whatever piece of art work)-oh, how foolish I was).
I am providing a counter statement to the bold statement made by the article itself (which I simply do not agree with or accept to be true)--that is all.
PS. If you're going to get into silly philosophical arguments about the concept of nothing [no vidogame] being perfect--which is basically what you're saying here--we're wasting breath on idiotic nothingness imo. As far as we can judge and measure things like this, and we do this kind of thing every single day, the game examples I provided above are about as close to being perfect as any games have ever come imo, and that is enough for me to use the "perfect" word in this context.
PPS. I did not "attack" @NintendForLife because he "disagreed" with me; I called him out for this comment (his first words directed at me):
"No! They might be truly great in many people's opinions but it doesn't even come close the all-round perfection that Super Mario Odyssey is."
Which exists for no reason other than to antagonize and cause conflict.
If you seriously can't see that then you really should stop, because you are part of inflating this conflict now: You lack the basic capacity to see when one person was [clearly] just trying to wind another person up with no other reason and motivation than that alone--and that is very dangerous when you then join that person and basically start the beginnings of a small mob (a mob creating needless and childish conflict and group bullying for no good reason).
My favourites are Mario 64, Super Mario World, and NSMB... I'm very nostalgic over them.
I think that if I were to introduce someone to the 3D games, Odyssey is probably the best one, the one that they'd likely enjoy the most.
Comparing 2D and 3D is tricky both have a different experience to offer. As for whether it is the greatest Mario to me that will be a no, with only two moons left (damn you jump rope and bounce bowl) There really isn't anything left to discover whereas with SMW on snes after firing it up after fifteen years I was still find secret levels I had never discovered on countless other playthroughs. Had Odyssey that I want to play that level again just to see what else I can discover factor it would have been hands down for me the greatest.
Odyssey is very good, but best? Not even close for me. Here's why:
1. There is no incentive to seek the challenging parts of the game. The whole game can be completed relatively quickly with low hanging fruit. I don't expect Mario to be too challenging, but by abandoning the one-star-at-time-per-world approach in favor of the open design they watered it down too much. I never would have gotten a star for stomping the ground in Galaxy. At times, Odyssey is an easter egg hunt for a preschooler, you know, where the eggs are all laying out in the open on the grass.
2. Lack of emergent gameplay. When I cappy a tank it's there to blow up the one wall in front of me, beyond that it is worthless. I can't take it with me. I can't ever use the core mechanic in fun and interesting ways outside of the very narrow scope of where they're needed. That's what made BotW worthwhile. Missed opportunity.
Odyssey's story is on par with Galaxy, though Galaxy 2's level design was superior. Odyseey had a lot of great moments where it made me smile. It's a charming game. But it's also a game that forces me to go looking for the fun bits, and that process is not fun. Again, it's a very good game, but it doesn't deserve the level of praise it's receiving. Best? Not by a long shot.
super Mario world will never be upstaged. But best 3D Mario? Maybe. Mario 64 is a ropey experience nowadays and relies on nostalgia. Galaxy is a damn good game. Saying that, the Cappy thing feels like more of a gimmick than galaxy’s awesome physics, which feel a lot more organic and natural
Super Mario 64 will always be my favorite , but that could be nostalgia speaking. Had a huge smile on my face when I got to the mushroom kingdom from the food kingdom or whatever it's called
@Fazermint Nintendo themselves have classified the Galaxy games to be akin to Super Mario 3D land instead of Mario 64 or Sunshine, being more linear instead of branching. It makes choosing the best one between Galaxy and 64 less meaningful, as they set out to achieve very different things. http://i.imgur.com/iTAPckh.jpg
Odyssey can be the best 3D Mario Game but the best ever is SMB 3 , the ultimate smb game.
World is still tops for me... but honestly as I’m getting further in the post-game of Odyssey that is becoming harder to say with the usual confidence.
@impurekind so you're resorting to personal attacks against me now? Listen, you called him out for doing the same thing you did, stating an opinion as fact that would obviously be controversial here as not everyone will agree with you. And yes, afterwards you edited your comments to say it was opinion but I started writing my comment before the edit. Finally, I suggest you edit your responses down, not everything needs to be a massive essay.
I won't respond at this point as I don't feel like arguing. Have a good day.
I firmly believe this really is a 10/10 game (although I’m not comparing it to other Mario games until some time has passed), and this is coming from someone who was skeptical for months after the initial trailer and E3.
@ShadJV I am simply defending the assertions you have made against me and restating my point.
And, where you say stupid things like I'm attacking @NintendoForLife, when CLEARLY it was he who posted his first comment with literally no purpose other than to antagonize and create childish conflict--that is all that comment could possibly be interpreted as being created for (go actually read it again, and maybe stop and think about and fully understand what he was doing with that comment for one second)--then why the hell should I not call you out for that ignorance of jumping on the potential mob bandwagon and picking on the guy who's only defending his position (and calling out trouble makers), rather than you calling out the guy who is actually the childish bully instigating conflict where it doesn't need to exist by posting comments with literally no purpose other than to antagonize?
Am I allowed to do this in your world?
Am I not allowed to call out childish bullies like @NintendoForLife an/or defend myself against such misguided assertions as the one you made about me "attacking" @NintendoForLife without really grasping what actually happened at all?
And again, if you really don't get how my original comment was not intended to antagonize any particular person--I was just giving my counter assertion on the assertion in the article--and his absolutely was intended to antagonize me, then you need to read it a few more times. . . .
He wasn't giving his opinion, or even countering my opinion--he was LITERALLY just childishly mocking me and causing conflict (simply copying my comment and changing a few words to basically ridicule it, and by extension, ridicule me).
Have you read his initial comment to me enough time to get this now. . . .
@impurekind From what I've played and watched I think I have to agree with most of what you said.
I think it's easier for games like Super Mario Bros 3. (personal favorite) to be perfect since there's not much space for the kind of issues Odyssey has. Nintendo is just learning to make "massive" games and I think that's part of the problem here.
Odyssey still looks like a great game but I find it ridiculous how many people are saying it's the best ever just one week after its release.
Best Mario game ever was the original arcade release of Donkey Kong. Reason? I will still be playing it long after completing SMO.
SMO has been a blast, so many things to do , was it the hardest Mario game ? No, but the joy I experienced throughout the main story was fantastic , it borrows from all Mario games before it, blended together perfectly , Cappy mechanic is a welcome addition , imagine Cappy gets his own game , I'd be down , I simultaneously learned how to walk and read and be a person all with an NES and smb3 in hand , smb3 is the best Mario game if not the best game ever , it's what Ive compared all video game to, do your self a favor buy a switch and get SMO , you will not be disappointed . So glad Nintendo is killing it this year .
The poll was a joke, given the timing of it. There was nothing remotely "eye-opening" about the results because the same thing happens every time with tedious inevitability. Your criteria for Best Mario Game Ever is whichever one came out most recently.
It's like asking N64 Kid on Christmas day what his favorite console is (except that he'd probably give you a more considered and thought-out answer than those in the poll...)
@Kevember Yeah, that's basically where I'm coming from too: I mean, it's totally true that it was easier to "perfect" games back in the day, simply because they were far smaller and simpler overall, but the fact is that games like Super Mario Bros. 3 (the All-Stars version), Super Mario World and Yoshi's island basically are "perfect", for all intents and purposes (at least as much as any game can be and has been to date as far as I'm concerned), and Super Mario Odyssey really is not, even as awesome as it is (I've mentioned above some of the pretty obvious issues I've found with it). And, for me personally, I can't really rate a flawed masterpiece above pretty much a perfect masterpiece--it just doesn't compute as rational and informed thinking in my world. So, yeah, I totally get ya.
Play Mario 64 right after you beat Odyssey and then let's see if you think 64 is better. Mario 64 was awesome at the time of release but it certainly has not aged well.
@Turbo857 Mario 64 is still an enjoyment for me, even after SOM. No hand-holding, nice underwater levels and perfect controls.
I don't understand all these articles. Odyssey is a great game, but clearly Mario Party 8 is the best Mario game. 😆
As it is for me. But several stages in Mario 64 are big mountains, lotta empty space. The game is still great today but cannot hold a candle to contemporary Mario games (except Sunshine, I'd rather play 64 over that any day).
@Nintendoforlife I'm pretty sure I read it the same way when I initially read the comment. It seemed like a person really wanting to void any thought that was different than theirs. Enjoy the rest of your day too!
@Turbo857 I think you didn't understand. I've close to finished oddysse 100%. What I'm saying is Mario 64 wowed us all in 1996.
2017 yes oddysse is shiny but will people replay it over and over again like 64.
@1UP_MARIO Probably? It's a really fun, well-designed game, so I don't see why they wouldn't.
This is a great, well written, article. Thank you.
Time will tell. I've beaten Ocarina of Time more times than Twilight Princess and Botw but I still think Ocarina is the inferior game.
If people don't replay Odyssey as much as 64, I'd say it'd come down to lack of free time mixed with too many games available rather than game quality. When Mario 64 came out, there were arguably more game droughts than we deal with now. So with less quality games coming out, we had more time to replay great ones.
@1UP_MARIO probably. That's what children that play fun, solid games do. That's why I love Mario 3 and children scoff at it. I heavily doubt Mario 64 is on most ten-year olds top ten lists. 20 years from now, those kids-now adults will argue that Odyssey is the best Mario game ever and that Mario 2037 is overrated because it barely brought anything new to the genre and even kids can beat the main game.
The original review was well-written and made the case for the "10" very well. I'm generally disinterested in "x thing is better than y thing" as it relates to media. Sometimes sad movies are good. Other times you want a comedy. Same for games. I love Odyssey. If I'm largely braindead after a long day and want to play something for five minutes, "Rusty's Real Deal Baseball" might scratch the itch better. Acknowledge Odyssey's achievement... but I don't think sporting culture serves us well with the whole "this thing beats this thing."
Best 2D Mario game is Super Mario World, best 3D Mario game could be Super Mario 64 or Sunshine, even though Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 had some great ideas there were things than didn't work as well as intended like tiny planets, gravity and motion controls.
We need a Super Mario 64 remake and sequel.
I never thought "masterpiece" as quick as with Odyssey. After 880 moons, I'm fairly confident I never played a better Mario game (with the exception of Super Mario Maker that has infinite replay value).
Only when you need multiplayer in Mario games, then I'd say Odyssey is not the best, and you should check out Super Mario 3D World or New Super Mario Bros. U + New Super Luigi U, if you haven't already.
Mario 3DW is currently my favorite. I think that it's the perfect mix of classic 2d Mario platforming in a 3d setting. I prefer this style to the exploration based gameplay of 64, sunshine, and Odyssey. But I love them all.
@Darkhound1999 I can understand that and I'll agree but Mario 64 wasnt that easy playing it the first week of release
Super Mario World is not the best Mario game. It's typical overrated SNES tosh.
Super Mario BROS 3, Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Odyssey are top 3. Followed by Galaxy, Sunshine, Super Mario 3D World, Super Mario World.
@1UP_MARIO Fair. I feel like there is (somewhat of) a reason for the lack of difficulty in this game though; the emphasis on exploration. It seems to me that Nintendo designed the game with this focus in mind, thus making the game easier and the exploration less tedious. I do understand why people would be upset at the lack of difficulty, but at least there's a decent reason why. I'm also not sure how much the difficulty ramps up in the last two kingdoms, so it's possible all the challenge is there.
I think Mario Odyssey is the best. It's gloriously playable. If you find it too easy, then showboat. Don't just jump in to a moon. Back flip in to it or what have you lol. You are rewarded for trying stuff out. The T-rex level, I went back to smash every block and was rewarded with a cat Mario easter egg (which was nice because I found the cat peach and did wonder.)
I love Odyssey but the shiny new hype is definitely wearing off now that I have 600+ moons.
@Darkhound1999 i also enjoyed the last 2 kingdoms as well as the final challenge.
I really hope we get the zelda treatment and get some quality dlc
Articles such as these place Super Mario detractors in a tough spot. Because the article is pretty much contradicting some points that they refuse to tolerate & will get triggered whenever they surface:
That Nintendo still has that magic touch. They still got it. They haven't lost their luster but they get even BETTER at their craft.
Articles pointing that out completely destroy their tired old Nintend00m3d narrative that goes "Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. is sequels, sequels and sequels that offer nothing new but more of the same"
It destroys that narrative because a 20-30 year old IP doesn't thrive as Nintendo's IP's do by being more of the same. Mario games are certainly not that. You don't get the same fix playing SM3 that you get playing Galaxy or SM64 or the latest, Odyssey. These games are the same only in the characters and how we expect them to interact with each other. Gameplay wise, there is a world of difference.
So behold, an article that dares to point out one of the reasons Nintendo is still trucking along despite archaic online infrastructure and account systems that are dated in the 90's. Their games continue to offer amazing experiences.
Well as a 38 year old who was playing video games at the age of 3, it's pretty much the best game I've played since Mario 64. I think about it at work, talk to friends about it gleefully.... No other game has had this effect on me in a very long time.
I'll always prefer the best 2D Mario games to the 3D ones. The trio of SMB3, SMW and Yoshi's Island are gaming perfection in my mind, and I doubt they'll ever be beaten. In terms of 3D Mario games, I don't think anything will ever beat the revolution that was Mario 64. Nothing really can have the impact that a stepped change in technology brings.
It's the same with Zelda games. Link to the Past will never be beaten, and for 3D Zeldas nothing can match the revolution that was Ocarina of Time.
I really feel for younger gamers that weren't old enough to game or even be born when Mario 64 and OoT came out. Nothing will ever match the wonder I felt playing those games for the first time. It's quite sad to think about really.
It's all very simple. My entirely subjective opinion is correct. If you agree with me, you are a perceptive, thoughtful and probably also beautiful person. If you disagree, you are a moron and do not deserve to play any of the Mario games.
In my opinion, Super Mario Odyssey is the Best Mario games so far, despite i still haven't played yet but i have watched some gameplay from Youtube ( I didn't watch too many to avoid Spoilers). :smile_sweat:
But, is it the Best Mario games ? Maybe, but not 10 / 10. I gave a score 8.5 / 10 due to my lesser engagement with any 3D platform games. I like 3D Cartoonish platform games, but i enjoy much games with genre like Portal Knights / The Sims / Animal Crossing New Leaf / Harvest Moon / Dance Dance Revolution as my Best genre to play.
If only there will another 3D Mario in the future, i hope it will be :
1. Very Huge Open World, connected each other like LEGO CITY UNDERCOVER World
2. Luigi / Peach / Daisy / Wario / Waluigi / Toad / Yoshi / Mii as playable characters
3. More Outfits customization from Hats / Top Outfits / Bottom Outfits / Gloves / Shoes / Accesories + Recolor Option for every single outfits (Imagine if we can edit any of Mario's friends outfits, from head to toe). Btw, i Really Really want to see Blue Police outfits / Boxing outfits ( Bare chested for Males + Boxing gloves + Shoes / Leg bandage ) / Karate outfits / Baseball outfits as wearable costumes for Mario and his friends. Also, Other Nintendo's IP outfits such as Animal Crossing / Starfox / F-ZERO / Fire Emblem / Style Savvy / Metroid / Kirby / Zelda / etc are nice Options too ( Imagine Mario with Link's Blue Tunic outfits from BotW or Peach with Blue outfits of Samus, etc)
4. More Challenging way to beat Bosses, not just only Stomp them 3 times and Poof (Disappeared). Give a Life Bar for Bosses if necessary.
Well, that's all my opinions. Great job, Nintendo !
Make another amazing 3D Mario again for Switch !
Ok let me break it down for you dummies yeah lol
Make NO mistake, ANYONE saying any other mario is better is saying it from a purely nostalgic view, one with warm fuzzy memories like I have of super mario 3 and 64, galaxy e.t.c
BUT I can state this as fact, NONE of the mario games has the depth, fun, and addictive nature that odyssey has. I was set when I bought this it won't beat the other mario titles ( or rather like others I just didn't want it to lol ) but this is the best.
All reviewers are also saying this because it's FACT best mario to date
Anyone but hurt over the truth needs to get over it
Everyone has an opinion but the accepted consensus is that this is now the best mario game made to date.
As a mario fan, I wholeheartedly agree.
Can't believe how many people here want to say you can't judge a game this early. Like hell you can't. Well, maybe you can't but I certainly can.
Super Mario Odyssey is unequivocally the best Mario game ever that I've played, and I've pretty much played em all (Sunshine aside). Both me and my brother agree this game tops Super Mario 64 in every single respect.
What's impressive is that my brother also thinks this is the best Mario game ever, cause he was very disenfranchised with Nintendo these past 10 years, and has always held Mario 64 as the greatest game of all time. He loved that game. So so so much. But without a shred of doubt says this tops it.
It's the Super Mario 64 sequel we've wanted for 20 years. A timeless classic that will endure for generations.
Hard to say at this stage. Older Mario games have the advantage of nostalgia and people's recollections (which are almost certainly inaccurate) of the impact those games had on them at the time. Odyssey has the advantage of the new.
I'm a few hours in and it's becoming clear that it's another masterpiece. It has my favourite feature of Mario games which is an avalanche of ideas, many used once then discarded. Plus it's already clear that it's cleared the lowest bar set for any Mario game by being better than Sunshine and "Mario 2".
Breaking news: Hype-frenzied fanboys pick current hyped thing as "best ever". Analysts predict similar results for the next one, and the next one after that.
I do understand why people would be upset at the lack of difficulty, but at least there's a decent reason why.
Having a 'decent reason' for why Odyssey had a laughable difficulty curve (that it's even a curve is debatable) making it better is like saying that I should feel better about being a victim of an armed robbery because the person that robbed me needed my money for family member's surgery instead of a crippling substance abuse habit. Can you honestly tell me, for those Mario fans that love the challenge of precision platforming that Mario does like few others, that it comes remotely close to scratching that itch?
@JohnGrey Please note that I'm not justifying the lack of difficulty by saying that it's a good thing, I'm just providing my opinion on why it might exist. Like I said, although I'm happy with the challenge that the game is providing me, I fully understand why other people would be upset about it. Nintendo were trying something different with this formula, and while it seems like a decent majority enjoys it, it is a shame that other people are disappointed and find it lacking in difficulty.
I picked up my preorder at a midnight launch and did not quit playing for the next five days, I even took a day off from work to play and relax and be immersed in this game to me it is utterly SPECTACULAR.., if you in any way like Mario games you need to play this game, it is that fantastical. I am 42 years old and a lifelong Nintendo / Mario fan and to me this is the apex of a Mario title it has something from every type of Mario title thrown in and is better because of it and YES THIS IS HANDS DOWN THE BEST EVER MARIO TITLE .. Nintendo has something truly special on its hands and Super Mario Oddessy deserves all the attention and success that comes its way . Ive forced myself to not play the game for two days now and its all Ive thought about as well as that Jump up Superstar theme song that is now stuck in my head., Thanks Nintendo .
I'd say Maker - either iteration - is the greatest, given it made the bold decision to give the players what I've always referred to as the metaphorical car keys.
As far as non-fanservice-driven Mario games go, though, it depends on which category we're talking about:
Sidescrollers: New Super Mario Bros. U. (New Super Mario Bros. 2 for portable games)
Linear 3D games: Super Mario 3D World. (Land for portable games)
Galaxy games: Galaxy 2 gameplay-wise, Galaxy story-wise.
3D games: Super Mario 64 DS (yes, DS, I don't care what anyone says, the remake is far superior in every conceivable way, with portability being one of the main draws but not the best improvement, which says a lot about that game)
"As you complete a playthrough you realise that you're gradually getting the best of both worlds - freedom to explore and experiment, along with linear sequences and challenges to test your platforming skills."
This I think is what intrigues me most about the game.
I will play it eventually, but the following concerns me:
It seems thematically incoherent.
Sounds like you're tripping over power moons half the time.
Looking at the footage, it seems to lack a crucial albeit intangible element: charm.
All I can say is that I've been playing Mario games since the first Donkey Kong in the arcade and have played and bought every entry on launch day ever since.
Never expected Odyssey to dethrone my personal favourite of 25 years ago, yet it did.
Absolutely brilliant game all around and one of the best games ever created.
@Franklin Nah, Odyssey has buckets of charm, IMO, like every Mario game before it, from Super Mario Bros to Super Mario Run. I wouldn't worry about that, at least. But you are free to come to your own conclusions. I suspect you'll have a great time playing it, and won't spend the entire playthrough wondering whether it's better than Mario 64 or Super Mario Bros 3.
I couldn't decide so I let my SMW , SM64 cartridges and Galaxy disk have a fight.
They all knocked each other out at the exact same time.
Conclusion: A draw!
Considering that it sold two million in three days, what should that tell you? Personally I agree that odyssey is the best. Embrace the future.
@AlexSora89 Glad to see SM64DS get some love around here. The one thing that could've made it better was an analogue stick, but you can always play it on 3DS. Still can't get enough of those mini games 13 years later.
@Muddy_4_Ever clever post
@BlueOcean "We need a Super Mario 64 remake and sequel."
Super Mario 64 DS is a remake and technically a sequel, since some elements that were implemented into it were planned for Super Mario 64 2 on the 64DD, before it was unfortunately cancelled.
nintendo needs to update this game and make it better. it is way too easy to complete the main story-line and rescue peach...
at least the 500+ power moons and many hidden extras keep you busy for a while.
i think Nintendo should add an additional story-line to the game once all of or most of the power moons are collected.
for example: letting you visit Isle Delfino after 280 power moons. then after all 400 power moons are collected; let you relive the story-line from super Mario sunshine (with the help of cappy as an option).
then once all of the power moons and extras are collected in the super Mario odyssey timeline; let you relive the story-line of super Mario 64.
I think the only thing keeping it from edging out Super Mario Galaxy 2 is that some of the moons just feel like padding.
And lack of Luigi.
First off, we need to start distinguishing the 3D offerings from the 2D offerings, same with Zelda.
For a 3D Mario, Galaxy 2 is tops.
I love the new game and it's been a joy to play. Over the decades I go back to SMB 3 and Super Mario World the most despite a regular round of newer titles every few years. Picking the best isn't easy, but as much as I do enjoy Odyssey, it's not the best for me, that will likely go to 3 or World, though I can imagine a newer generation who this may be the first big Mario title they remember, considering this the ultimate adventure. I'd easily put this one in the top 5.
64 will always be the peak of creativity because it created a coherent world within the confines of the castle. The castle was a living being connecting you to the many hidden realms within. There was a sense of overarching mystery and wonder to the castle. could there be an invisible wall here? I don't know lets find out. Odyssey is great and it certainly has those aha moments but there is no sense of connection between the worlds besides the map menu showing the globe. some levels are big and thats awesome but ones like the desert kingdom feels empty. And after the story there just doesn't feel like much of a reason to continue on and find the rest of the MILLION moons. There was something about working your way up to bowser in 64 that just felt fulfilling. Like a true accomplishment to take down your foe. Odyssey losses that drive quickly. most modern games do now and days since everyone only seems to care about end game. That being said odyssey is still charming and fun 9/10. 64 will always be 11/10 for me
"Switch owners have rushed to buy it, breaking sales records in the US" DUH! As if there's anything else to purchase right now. We finished Zelda months ago, and who wants to buy old rehashed WiiU games (Spitn 2, MK8). Later we'll get some AAA 3rd party attention, but it's been a drought after Zelda.
Does calling it the greatest Mario game ever affect my enjoyment of the game? No. So call it whatever you wish. Other than missing a raccoon tail and large bright blocks with screws in them I'd say this is a great homage to the history of the Mario franchise.
Super mario Sunshine is still my favourite mario. The reason is in the title.
But seriously this is a debate which awesome game is more awesome. As long as its great everythings fine with me. I can understand why people feel odyssey is the best. And maybe im just blinded by nostalgia. Even so i would love to play a real Sunshine remake. Something like the ff 7 one.
Meh, way too early to say. For me, this is the first home console Mario I have played since Sunshine and it has really brought me a lot of joy, and I think that this game is appealing to people like me. Time will tell. Personally, I wanted to vote Dr. Mario...
To have a concern about how something seems is different to categorically stating it as such.
Reading is fun.
@gildahl true dat 👊
Next on the news : nostalgia-fuelled fanboys pick a game they've had years to replay and that brings back nice memories from their past as the best Mario game. Analysts predict etc.....
The problem with polls is that they can be timed, worded, and utilized in any way the author/organization wishes to achieve their desired effect. For example, creating a poll asking for which Mario game is "best" almost immediately after the release of the new kid on the block, followed by using the inevitably skewed results to make a certain case. If you had conducted this same poll with slightly different wording one year from now, I almost guarantee you the results would be different, which would weaken the supporting words in this article. (Additionally, using terms like "undisputed" is not reflective of the words in the comments- for example, there is a LOT of dispute over whether Super Mario World or Super Mario Bros. 3 is the better representative of the 2D series.)
@Gamer401 have you actually been on the eshop? There are over 200 games out for the switch- yes some are shovelware but the vast majority are excellent titles. You game drought comment has no substance whatsoever.
"As if there's anything else to purchase right now....it's been a drought after Zelda."
Not sure where you meant to post that but we're discussing the Nintendo Switch here.
To repost from my comment on the polls:
I personally feel that Super Mario Oddysey forgets some of the lessons learned from past entries, and is not as tightly constructed nor as well paced when compared to Super Mario Galaxy. (Or even Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie, with their 900 notes and 100 jiggies, which were a more natural exploration guide and progress tracker than these 999 Moons.) The feeling of going to different lands/countries in SMO doesn't quite have the impact of traversing the celestial nebulae of SMG. The constant use of the sentient Cappy as a weapon goes against the tradition of Mario being self-reliant on his own powers, abilities, and surroundings, to a much greater extent than Super Mario Sunshine. The possession mechanic, while very cool (mutha flippin' T-REX!), introduced an element of ADHD into the series that emphasizes taking advantage of other beings in the moment, rather than mastering your skills. The awkwardness of having pseudo-realistic humans alongside a fantasy human character never makes it out of the uncanny valley. And the setting (and arguably soundtrack) is not quite as grandiose as SMG, even if it technically covers more ground.
Super Mario Oddysey is the perfect examplar of trying to do too much with a formula. More is not always more, less is more.
For me Odyssey could well be the best Mario game, certainly the best 3D game finally ousting Mario 64 from its lofty perch. I finished the main story seemingly quite a long time ago (in gameplay terms) and whilst I've seen many complaints over its length I cannot agree. Firstly its Mario and the story has never been either significant or any real draw but in this its more of a starter for the real game that you find once finished. I'm constantly discovering new areas and challenges, some of which are very difficult for those that think this game is easy and everything is such a joy to do, whether I'm racing koopa's, riding a Jaxi, fishing with Lakitu, being chased by a T-rex or just kicking paint cans and some glorious platforming in either 2D or minus cappy. I've been playing this game since launch and have around 400 moons but and every time I feel I've seen most of what this game has to offer i discover whole new areas and possibilities.
So yes the best 3D Mario beating 64 and Sunshine but I have to separate the 2D and 3D outings as they are completely different experiences and in 2D, Mario Bros 3 on the NES will always be king with Mario World pushing it close
@AlwaysGreener I know that, but the DS version of Super Mario 64 in spite of the new content is technically worse (resolution, effects, antialiasing, visual effects, sound, controls, etc.). I was thinking of 3DS or Switch as the platform. 3DS would be perfect because the 3D effect would be wonderful in Super Mario 64 in the same way as Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, because of the level design and geometry. This about the remake but the sequel, obviously, would make more sense on Nintendo's latest console.
I'm in the middle of XCX right now but am very tempted to leave it for a while and play Super Mario Odyssey. It sounds like such a great game.
stop hypeing SMO! yes it is a good game, but not the best which is what you are trying to tell us ...please, stop it
I don't disagree with you that there's dodgyness at both ends of the spectrum, but the overwhelming landslide victory for Odyssey, given the timing of the poll, suggests the force is a lot stronger with the recency bias than it is with the nostalgia bias.
It's like when NL did a Best Mario Kart Ever poll shortly after Mario Kart 8's release. Of course, Mario Kart 8 won by a landslide... But bearing in mind, this was before DX, so this Mario Kart was basically like all the rest except this one had a vastly inferior Battle Mode, so how does that make it the best one, other than "cos it's the one I just played" These polls are pointless.
my biggest problem about SMO is that there is much more moons than it should be ....especially in the end game, there is a lot of moons that you basically just take without any effort...why there must be such a shallow filler? Nintendo decided to take a path "Quantity over Quality" and that is not good ....
another problem is absolutely no real usage of the costumes, yes they could unlock certain parts of the game but nothing more, you just need them to unlock the door and they dont bring anything new or deep to gameplay
@NF6429 Why Super Mario World? sure it was good launch game, but it lacks variety (something Mario 3 had in both worlds and power ups) only amazing thing about SMW is Yoshi and you could save your game for the first time...
Odyssey has both and the biggest variety in any Mario game to date...and the power to play as a lot of Mario's past and new enemies including Bowser himself!
@Steel76 i absolutely agree finally someone who doesnt have eyes blinded by hype
@BlackenedHalo You could argue the same with Super Mario World, there's a lot of samey levels that you don't really need to do (so many shortcuts)
It's already been shown you DON'T HAVE TO get all moons, since there aren't big reward for getting all 999 moons, it's just something to keep you playing once you saved Peach once again.
I'm still finding hidden levels and stuff to do!
@Haywired @electrolite77 It's a lot easier to temper nostalgia into wisdom than it is to separate zeal from eagerness for the shiniest new thing.
@ClassSonicSatAm have you played the game? because collecting moons is the main gameplay thing ...there is absolutely nothing else to do
@ClassSonicSatAm yes but Super Mario World is a challenging game, SMO isnt
Yeah let's face it, the whole thing is NL scavenging for hits. It's effective too.
Not sure I agree with you there. New things are competing against memories e.g. memories of the first playthrough of the old game. And memories are never accurate.
"I'm still finding hidden levels and stuff to do!" ....lol but everything you do you do because of moons !! what do hidden levels contain? moons! why are you trying to find them? because you want to play new areas, and what do you get for it? moons!!
@electrolite77 I remember being eager for SM64 to the point of being zealous. The memory is not complete, but it's enough to teach me how that behavior got in the way of my ability to evaluate the experience critically at the time. With experience and the passage of time, that can be overcome. Same applies here with SMO for many people. Eagerness has a greater propensity to get in the way of critical thought than nostalgia.
@BlackenedHalo Hey, hey! Don't judge. Some people just like being mooned.
Super Mario Odyssey is much more like a runner than a platformer.
@ThomasBW84 While I'm not at all convinced by Mario Odyssey, I still play it occasionally between the other games in case I might have misjudged it - not at least because it's still one of my favourite franchises. So I really want to see what others see in this game - but so far I just don't see it.
Take this statement for example:
'For veteran gamers it finds ways to surprise and twist conventions, driven not only by the capture mechanic but also the layout of the stages.'
Which twists and surprises are you referring to (spoilers are no problem)? As a Mario veteran player, I didn't encounter any.
E.g. hiding purple coins behind a large building (without even concealing them or posing a platforming challenge to collect them) is not a surprise, it's exactly what you would expect.
The capture mechanic is also quite unimpressive, so far it never surprised or even amazed me. Whenever you have to capture a certain enemy type, the game rubs it in your face so you can't miss it. There's never even a hint of a challenge like 'hm, what do I have to do here, how do I progress?'. The solution is always painfully obvious.
The game also never feels crowded, but the exact opposite: apart from the sections where the action takes place, the worlds feel very empty, up to the point where having these open levels becomes pointless.
For example, I explored all of the sand dunes and apart from one moon there was nothing to find. So exploring them just felt like an utter waste of time.
Just as a comparison: in Mario 64 you never had any parts of the level that were just a large empty spaces.
I like having open worlds but in this game they feel very useless.
The whole level design is missing the love, care and attention to detail that previous entries had. It often feels like they just dispassionately sprayed some random objects around the levels without further consideration.
Again, I'd really like to see what you and others see in this game, I don't enjoy being critical about it (and I'm not saying it's a bad game - it's still good, but not exceptional as it should be).
So please, enlighten me.
On a separate note, that luckily doesn't affect me at all, but still puzzles me:
There is almost never any danger of dying by falling into the void, so what was the point of removing game overs?
Similarly: the game is already so easy already, what's the assist mode for?
I'd say it probably is the best game in fairness as it borrows ideas from pretty much all previous entries and combines them into an absolute master piece. In theory it has a little bit of everything.
If its not THE best then it's got to be right up there.
I do believe that Nostalgia plays a massive part in how our brains make us think..... Mario 64 was absolutely amazing for it's time and will forever be a classic but playing it today, I don't believe anyone could argue that it hasn't aged very well.
In Mario 64 the Mushroom kingdom can feel a very lonely place at times, there's just so much more life & interaction in Odyssey.
To be clear I love Mario 64 as I do all Mario games but Odyssey just takes everything good about the previous games and improves on it.
It honk you're seriously underestimating the power of nostalgia and the effect that has in fuelling cynicism when it comes to newer things trying to match or better the old thing that is so meaningful..
I love the 2d games (specially world) but they are restrained by it's limitations (something that Zelda does not suffer due to the top down perspective (link to the past is still my favourite in the series). Before odyssey 64 was by far my favourite (even though the controls and camera being quite stiff) but this one is a true masterpiece... I have 647 moons at the moment and I can't stop playing. I am not a completionist but with this one I need them all. And the game is not as easy as many say because the platforming gets harder each time and let's say it right, no one plays Mario games for the story...
My point exactly. It was gorgeous on DS and with the Analog Stick on 3DS everyone can play it "the way it's supposed to be played".
Personally, I grew up with Crash and Spyro on the PS1 which were a rare breed of 3D platformers without an analog stick and I never had any problem whatsoever when controlling the characters. Which is why SM64DS was my cup of tea way more than the original was.
Besides, while I had access to the original before, I never really played that adventure in particular until I got my hands on the remake, which kind of spoiled me I guess.
That, and Luigi being playable. I loved Luigi more than Mario in my first Mario game, Mario Kart Super Circuit, I loved the guy even more in the GBA remake of Super Mario World, and the DS port of 64 did not disappoint (wait, I kind of swapped port and remake around in this sentence... oh, whatever) in going overboard with Luigi's crazy jumping abilities.
Super Mario 64 DS brought to life Yoshi's Island's gameplay in 3D for Yoshi for crying out loud! And it worked like crazy.
There are so many ways the DS remake is superior, it's insane.
Nostalgia aside, I think it is the best Mario game.
I'm not sure if I'm ready to make the case for Odyssey being the best Mario game of all time. For one, I haven't finished it. And ultimately, its really a subjective assessment. I truly think its a matter of what game or whatever it is came along at a pivotal part of your life and how it made the impression on you. Personally, I would hold Mario 64 and Super Mario World as the best in the series. But then, the N64 came along during my most formative years and overall, I probably hold it (and it's games) in much higher esteem than most others would.
Now, if I had to pick the most fun and delightful Mario game ever, Odyssey no doubt is right up there. It takes everything that made Mario 64 so full of charm and (as I said before) roids it up. And it has a sense of humor that is a bit new for a Mario game.
However, I feel like one of the xfactors for the game (and it might seem insignificant to some) is its signature song, "Jump Up, Superstar". For a company who's game music really relied on its effectiveness instrumentally, it took a big risk introducing one with lyrics. Its loud, bold and really in your face. Its catchy as all hell and it absolutely works. Not only in marketing the game. But its actually in the game and is used as the backdrop to probably one of the most amazing sequences in a Mario game to date. And the more I listen to it (and my 4 year old makes sure we listen to it at least once a day), I get the sense its not only just a statement from Nintendo on the direction Odyssey takes Mario. But its also a statement for Nintendo as a whole and its new direction with the Switch.
Ultimately, Mario Odyssey is a fine game. And a testament to not just developing a great video game. But the love for the franchise from its creators and from the fans.
I also call shenanigans on Mario 64 aging as badly as some have implied. Of course visually, its no question. And while I agree camera and controls have greatly improved since then, its still fun to play to this day.
Super Mario Bros 3. I can't say anything about Odyssey yet since I haven't played it yet.
It feels like it could be but I'm not gonna outright say it is till new game buzz dies down.
One thing I think could be said of Mario Odyssey is that it's at least the game that is arguably the most in tune with the world of gamers of its own era.
Every other Mario game has either tried to create a brand-new space for market demand (like Mario 64's 3D platforming or Galaxy with its motion controls) or play to one they already made (like 3D World), but with this one it seems like they admit there is a real world out there. A world where, right now, people want to buy their wins and mess around with tons of gameplay options (Cappy), rather than finesse one specific move set.
I'm not going to say this is good or bad. But it is an awareness that's sort of interesting about Odyssey that you don't see so much in the earlier games.
This is just my (idiotic) opinion, but no game should be discussed in terms of "best-ever" until some time window (5 years?) has passed and the hype has cooled off. Otherwise, there is a huge bias that weights the most recent games.
We should recognize that most gamers today can't appropriately judge a game like Super Mario World, since they likely played other Mario games first. So, we shouldn't judge something like Odyssey until there is a newer game out...
I'm maybe 2/3 thru, and unless there are some great improvements forthcoming, as fun as it's been, it's no Galaxy. Of course 1 problem I have is distinguishing Galaxy 1 and 2 in my head. I'm pretty sure I liked 1 more, 2 was really just DLC, but 2 had some notable additions. And a few subtractions if I recall.
But Galaxy really broke some new ground, had some awesome mechanics, and was great looking on SD Wii while Iw as gamign in HD on my PS3.
But graphics aside - really to me Odyessey doesn't really look all that much better than Galaxy, it's all the same Mushroom Kingdom colorful cartoon graphics to me - Galaxy brought more new and interesting. I think Mario also suffers from being a hunt-a-thon so soon after Zelda BotW. I feel like I just finished this game. I really wish I'd had played Mario first.
So bring out the HD Galaxy 2 pack Nintendo so we can compare.
Favorite 2D Mario is Super Mario Bros 2 (all star & GBA version)
Favorite 3D Mario is the original 3D platforming king Super Mario 64, with Odyssey a close second place.
Disappointed by the lack of Love from Nintendo Life for Super Mario Bros 2 & Super Mario Land.
"there is absolutely nothing else to do" What do ya mean? your exploring the worlds, capturing different enemies, you got mini games to do. the koopa the quick speed run challenges (these are my favourite. ^^ ) it's open world so just jump and have fun. XD
in Super Mario World once you saved Peach once again... that's it! you have to even turn the SNES off once you get "The End" Message pops up with Mario, Peach and Luigi staring at you... "why do Mario and Luigi's hair blue? and have colour shoes?" just so it doesn't have to save.
Odyssey looks great though I would have preferred that they implement a difficulty similar to BotW in the sense that the player goes out of the way to make the game easier through upgrades and armor rather than the game having an explicit easy mode
@BlackenedHalo Super Mario World isn't that much harder, you get 99 lives easy, again shortcuts, even the bosses are a joke.
The only boss in SMW that gave me trouble was King Koopa himself...only because I didn't know you could throw things up. (ended up seeing the cartoon version which shows how it's done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz4WsJx1F3Y&feature=youtu.be it's very easy)
You seen the last level of Super Mario Odyssey? now that's a challenge.
@Meaty-cheeky Same here man!
Don't know why elither, Super Mario Land is awesome having new enemies and worlds and still playing like SMB1..
While you don't stomp in SMB2, I find it much more fun throwing, not to mention the huge levels without a timer you could explore and find shortcuts to reach the boss (who isn't a koopa kid or clone of Bowser)
@BlackenedHalo Well it's a 3D Mario game, what you experting to collect instead? more Shines? Power Stars? Jumping a Flag pole? Getting a toad saying your at the wrong castle again. XD whats the beef against Moons?
Mainly thing I like about them in Odyssey they don't send you back to the Hub world or Ship, you just keep on playing.
btw I'm also on the look out for purple coins (so I can unlock the rest of the Outfits for Mario and stuff for my Ship )
Only goal in Super Mario World...is just save Peach and turn off your Snes.
@Shy_Guy: SMB3 for the win!
@ClassSonicSatAm nine of what that halo guy says makes any sense, the purpose of playing theses levels and exploring is because it's fun and that's it. What purpose has any of the previous Mario games had or for that matter may video game, you just play them because they're fun and that's what this game is. Not onĺy that but 400 moons in and I still have plenty to see and do 😃
@ClassSonicSatAm ...I am supposed to play through the whole Super Mario Odyssey only because I could finally play a challenging level? ....no thanks
@AlexSora89 We also had the PS1 and, even though we had the dual shock controller, I always preferred the directional buttons since my hands were too small to reach the analogue sticks comfortably.
SM64DS is underrated probably because it came out when the DS wasn't that popular and not many people got to play it. That and people assuming that since it's a portable remake it must be inferior to the console version.
I like Luigi but I always tried to avoid playing as him because I didn't like the way they put the light effect on top of his hat and it looked like a stain to me, so I found it a bit uncomfortable to look at. But what other game lets you play as Wario in an open 3D environment? Great memories.
@ClassSonicSatAm my complaints werent about collecting, my complaints were about that collecting is too easy
"it's open world so just jump and have fun. " yaaaay, you can jump in the game ..the best game ever!
My favorite mario games are as follows:
1. The original - the first game I ever completed
2. The one with yoshi and the cape
3. New Super Mario Brothers Wii
4. Super Mario 3d World
I started playing galaxy a couple times and I never fully got into it. I played Mario 64 and finished it but never got all the stars. I played and finished mario 3 but I didn't love it.
Mario games have never been a must buy for me but they are all enjoyable. I loved the one on the wii because playing it multiplayer with my siblings was a blast. I heard you could play Odyssey with two people as one being cappy and so I bought it yesterday.
I think the biggest things holding Odyssey back from being the best are 2 major complaints.
1. The music. Or lack thereof. It is incredibly jarring how often I end up just sitting in silence in this game. I really hope that Zelda and Mario don't set a trend of music taking a backseat. The music of the Zelda and Mario series are some of my favorites and it would break my heart going forward if they let it just fade.
2. Moons don't feel as special to collect as Stars did. I would much rather see there be less Moons so that collecting an individual one felt like more of a achievement.
I agree with pretty much everything this article says about Odyssey, and quoted it/shared on Twitter a little. The game is very accessible, while also still posing a challenge at times for more advanced players. And it's so pretty. I'm reserving judgment until I finish the game, because I do think it has some areas that could have been improved (Metro Kingdom's explorable area should be bigger. I assumed from early trailers it would be huge and act as a sort of hub world. The lack of a big hub world seems like an oversight.)
Also, I think 3D World offers some unique advantages over Odyssey: 4 player co-op, selectable characters with unique jumps or playstyles, while also possessing a lot of the beauty and variety of gameplay that makes Odyssey so outstanding.
@BlueOcean You are right, Super Mario 64 DS does have a lot of problems, but it does have more to offer then it's original forerunner, since it adds multiplayer and minigames. It would make more sense for Nintendo to just remake Super Mario 64 DS on the Switch or 3DS rather then make a sequel, because it would probably be easier to remake that rather than make a sequel from scratch. Plus the aforementioned problems with the game would be fixed, being that the Switch and 3DS are a lot more proficient with 3D platformers, then that of the Original DS.
Galaxy is better
I love Odyssey, but right now Super Mario Galaxy 2 is still my favorite.
@denis09 what he/she said
@knabrub21 the one you don't know it's name 🤔
@Meaty-cheeky super Mario land awesome super Mario 2 not so much
@Rontanamo_Bay first time that's been said 😂
Okay I'm weighing in. Odyssey is a very good game but it in no way sparks the wonder that was had when playing super 3, world or 64 did for the first time. Now before you go down the nostalgia route, breath of the wild did exactly that but with Zelda.it took me a few days to get into it but that game is hands down my favourite game ever-it is magical. Odyssey doesn't hold a candle to it. New donk city which looked like the be all and end all of NEW Mario is totally underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the game but no more that 3D world.
@electrolite77 amount of AAA, not reissued games, Zelda and SMO. That's why SMO sold so well. If any new AAA 3rd party support comes the droughts will be less. I'm expecting to put my Switch back in the box once I finish SMO. I'll take it out again after MP4 comes out.
@darthstuey I prefer AAA current gen games or games with more substance.
@NoxAeturnus A lot of those points read like better phrased versions of my own thoughts. It feels like the tree is so laden with 'low-hanging fruit' that much of it was fallen off to then be accidentally squashed underfoot, rather than 'picked' with any real conviction.
Some people complained about BotW being 'empty', and it's hard to deny that 'emptiness' (perhaps more charitably reworded as 'space' or 'distance') was wasn't a prevalent aspect of that game. But I found that the space between ideas in that game gave me the opportunity to think, observe, and reflect on the what I was doing, had done, and wanted to do next. Odyssey is comparatively much more dense, but I find the satisfaction of completing a deliciously constructed challenge is soon washed away by the wave of equally valued tasks that either reward serendipity, or willingness to carry out a mundane task (seed carrying is a culprit here).
Some people may call me a hypocrite for praising Zelda and griping about Mario is this regard, pointing to the Korok seeds as a (fair and relevant example). But Zelda wasn't a game about collecting Korok seeds. It was a side feature that could help you get a few more inventory pouches, but it wasn't the game itself. Mario however, is a game centred around collecting Power Moons, soon feel getting this balance right it a lot more important.
Both Zelda and Mario are excellent games, with an enourmous amount of brilliant ideas apiece. But if Zelda separates its most brilliant elements with 'emptiness', I would argue that Mario separates them with a dense network of 'fluff'. And at the very least, I find the former less distracting.
But to reiterate, they're both brilliant and we're lucky to have one, let alone both of them.
As someone who grew up in the days of the NES I appreciate the nostalgia of the older games but find it baffling that people think the older games are still better. All you need to do is think about how SMB3/SMW would be received if released today and how SMO would be viewed if released back then. I've had an absolute blast with SMO so far and my only complaint is how soon the main quests ended. The end game content hasn't disappointed thus far though...
My 7 year old has made it to New Donk City on her own while using assist mode. She’s a happy camper. Yes I would like her to play it without assist but she’s having the time of her life and learning the 3D controls. She does really good, thanks for adding it Nintendo.
It's an awesome game, but, it's only a handful of levels made by a certain team, that can be completed after playing it for a few days or weeks or months. I've been playing Mario Maker on Wii U for over 2 years now, almost every day, and there's always new great courses to play by people you've never heard of, and whole new games show up like Mew Mew Mario or Goomba Story or the Murder Mysteries, just so much good stuff it's not going to be able to be topped as far as I'm concerned, until they make sequels/spinoffs.
Itching to play this! Super Mario Bros. 3 holds a special place in my heart though not sure it can be replaced.
@Gamer401 buy a PS4
There are tons of good games on the Switch. If you choose not to buy them that's your call, but they exist. Not much Western AAA stuff but then there was never likely to be and it was never promised.
i have a f*cking blast in the endgame of SMO Why has Nintendo hidden the best of the game in the post game?
@BlackenedHalo They hid the best game in the post game in 3D World as well.
@Gamer401 Wow, I've heard about using an NS as a portable, home, or even so-called "hybrid" console... (you can only do either way at a time, not simultaneously both at the same time...)
But this is the first I've heard of it being used as a doorstop console!
@jariw i have never played 3D Land ...why is that? why Nintendo is constantly doing this?
@jariw Fair, but 3D world's mainline was still decently challenging and fun. Odyssey's is like an extended tutorial.
@maxz Exactly. The narrative in Zelda was a weak motivator for me, but they nailed exploration. I wanted to see every inch for the visual spectacle and I wanted to mess with all the mechanics to see what the game would let me do. The answer was A LOT, and the game gave me the space to do that. The answer in Odyssey is not much, and your comparison of density is spot on. Too many meaningless moons. But they are both brilliant, and this is surely one of the best years I can remember to be a gamer. So many awesome releases this year.
Odyssey Is charming. It's a great game, but it isn't the best ever. I have a hard time caring about post game content. I'm never a completionist. Without something to drive the collection and exploration gameplay (i.e. Getting to the next world) I find no incentive to go scavenging for fun. With more than half the game taking place post game, that's a huge design and pacing flaw for me.
I freaking love this game! After beating the main game i was sceptical about SMO (is that it?) but the end game shows what is real Odyssey about ....no 10/10 from me (no platformer has gotten a 10 from me) but a strong 9/10 the best 3D platformer I have ever played ....yes ...dont judge the game during the "story" segment, as I did
@BlackenedHalo 3D World was a different matter, since it was more consistent- it just had the best challenges at the end. Oddysey, by contrast, is more of a collectathon than a platformer for most of the time because it lacks the focus of it's forebears. In other words, SMO has an inescapable element of ADHD affixed to it. If SMO were a completely focused product, you would've gotten what you'd have expected out of the newest true 3D Mario adventure (that concentration on focused platforming) throughout the entire journey, instead of just after the main story- gradually mastering your skills all the while, instead of waiting with bated breath for the opportunity.
@PlywoodStick what is ADHD? yes I agree with you, but 3D Marios have never been about jumping in the first place, but about collecting stuff and completing tasks ....To be honest, I was disappoing at the begining since the game was focused on collecting things, but then I reminded Super Mario 64, i played a bit of the game and I realised that Super Mario 64 was also more like a collectathon than a platformer and then I understood why SMO looks and feels like this
I think regardless of it is the best Mario it is one of the best games of the year hands down. Only BoTW tops it for me.
It is the best in my opinion though. I think a lot of people give World and 3 the nostalgia bump when they consider them. They are certainly masterclasses, but I think this is the culmination of everything the team has learned with Mario.
That being said it's all down to preference.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Yes, the dust has no where near settled. I imagine very few people commenting have even finished the final stage (beyond the Bowser arch, of which I have died maybe 50 times and still haven't completed it). My opinion of this game has grown on me hugely. It was too easy at the start, but where I am now is just amazing and easily contends with the vibe I had when playing SM64.
@BlackenedHalo The endgame is so awesome! I think it is that way, because of accessibility.
@Minch it has nothing to do with accessibility ...the game would have been accessible in the same way if all the content had been unlocked from the begining
How long till we get a Mario follow up to Odyssey... Maybe they could remaster Mario 64, it would be awesome to play that game properly on a portable and with annoying camera angles fixed..
@carlos82 Exactly! that's why I keep going back to N64, maybe collect more stars but just having fun and exploring!
I'm still coming across stuff we been shown in the old trailers.. when I only a few stars away from 600.. XD replaying the mini games, so WHY is it bad to get rewarded for keeping on playing?
@BlackenedHalo " if all the content had been unlocked from the beginning" wouldn't that be too easy? :?
@BlackenedHalo You do realize you don't HAVE TO collect 999 moons right?..... you unlock the last level "Darker side of the moon" with about 400 moons or so.. or is that too hard for you?
@BlackenedHalo If it's so easy to collecting moons, then why hasn't everyone got 999 moons then? besides Mario 64 and Galaxy had easy Stars too with some being a pain to collect.
Odyssey has some hard ones too.
And can I back you up for sec. When has Mario been considered hard? (aside the Lost levels..which sucked, the last worlds/levels )
it was the same with pokemon sun and moon, everyone and their moms said that it was the best pokemon game in the universe.
fastforward some months (when the "honeymoon" phase was over)
and some people were already seeing flaws.
some months later and there was even a "faction" realizing that for every step forward, pokemon s&m took two steps back.
come on people, stop that "bezt gAMe of alLlL timeh!!11!1" hype team, let the cooldown do its thing...
@BlackenedHalo I was referring that amazing song Jump up Super Star! so it's a issue for a Mario not to liner? that's what ruins playing Galaxy 1 and 2 again...once you done all the courses to get the stars...you can't just wonder and explore without falling into a black hole. and the game doesn't encourage you to explore either.
in a way it's what makes GTA so replayable, you can do the missions but you can also do your own thing and have fun!
My only complaints about the game are the Cloud and Ruined Kingdoms. I saved going back to them for last, thinking their short introductions were teasing something grand and when I finally set to explore them I was beyond disappointed. And the game was seriously lacking the Ghost house environment. When I first came upon the 64 fountain courtyard I immediately hyped myself up thinking they redid the 64 Ghost House and was sad to see it wasn't there. I love the game though. Currently only have 3 proper moons left to gather but not sure I'll attempt them as the Bounding Bowl races aren't in my skillset -_-
@kotag Since when has Pokémon ever changed between games? the only times I ever got excited for a pokemon game was when it went 3D..even then it's still the same gameplay I played in the 90's at school.
With Mario, you tell when's the last time you had a huge open world to explore? brand new power ups (the cap capture) and wasn't just another liner Mario adventure for casual gamers? not to mention when has Mario ever been in a game set on earth and has realistic humans? or even a couple of vocal songs?
This is doing a heck of new things for Mario as well having stuff from all the past 3D games in one shape of form.
That's why it's amazing and it only took them 20 years to make it happen...
@yeayeanaynay Well you have those undead things instead.
@ClassSonicSatAm 500 moons
Why is Peach Castle so small... No rooms? No painting? Wouldn't it be need I'd the N64 game is included as an Easter egg...
Just finished the first part of the game (beat Bowser)... Now the adventure begins, and it seems the second part will be much longer than the first...
I feel like the only thing missing in this and Breath of the Wild to make these games basically perfect is amazing boss battles. I really hope video games aren't getting away from creative boss fights and designs.... They are my favorite parts of most of my favorite games and help change things up and give you something to really look forward to. Just my two cents.
I'm going to let it digest in my mind for a few months, like Breat of the Wild, and make some judgment. Pretty fantastic game though
@techdude Well there's a room under the castle, as well the garden section (in it's n64 form.) but you need speak with toad behind the castle. there's smaller castles/buildings that have the other paintings.
@BlackenedHalo Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. In most 3D Mario titles, you hone your base skills, maybe learn some new ones along the way, and clear levels and objectives using what you've learned and mastered. For example, star/shine collecting exists for the sake of pacing your objectives and recording your rate of exploration. It's not there just for it's own sake.
In SMO, that doesn't factor in much during the main story- the pacing is very abrupt. (Ooh, you broke a block in the middle of the road by mind controlling a chain chomp and slinging them at it, here's a moon! Oh look, there's a T-Rex, mind control it and break the wall right in front of it to get another moon! Oh, but there's a short time limit on mind controlling big creatures, so say bye-bye to the cool random T-Rex you just found! And so on.) That's at the heart of what people are touching upon when they mention "lack of challenge." This changes a bit after the main story, but the pacing issue with the moons is still there. That doesn't mean SMO isn't a great game overall, just that it's not "the best of the best."
Way too soon to have that conversation. I love odyssey, but give it time for the hype to wear off before judging.
That's because Mario and friends are Homo nintendonus, whereas New Donkers are H. sapiens.
@blondeandy Candy Crush was so popular that its developer almost managed to trademark the word "candy". Sometimes simple is better!
@PlywoodStick the quality of the console is not good enough to be a door stop.
@darthstuey that is what I plan to do. I figured the Switch will have at least 3 decent games and that's fine with me. I'm not complaining, just being honest given Nintendo's typical relof low powered systems that won't get full support of current gen AAA 3rd party games.
I've played Nintendo games since the NES, so I know how they operate. Everything is going as expected. This time I won't have a system sit out and collect dust. I'll get a current gen system and get the majority of my gaming there. It's all good!
@ClassSonicSatAm I know it's crazy being unable to unlock all these costumes and extra levels whilst having enormous fun, they need to put a stop to it and just sell us these as dlc 😜
I'm 400 moons in and loving it and every time I play I see something new
@Gamer401 Damn dude, that's harsh. It's a hybrid console, which means it can be anything you want it to be.
I'd say Wario World, but let's face it - SM64DS is the one that brought Wario Land to 3D.
Odyssey is a great game but it will never be the best Mario game because skipping and volleyball. 😉
@BulkSlash ha ha. I got 124 on Skipping. I thought that was a good score until I saw the online tables. Can't get anywhere near 100 on Volleyball
@BlackenedHalo I associate the 'best part' of the game--the end-game that you mentioned--with the difficulty of the quests. The content after the story is relatively more challenging--that's why I think it wasn't available from the get go, and why I would suggest it was a decision oriented towards making the game accessible to people of different skill levels. However I would also think giving purpose to revisit each kingdom is a fantastic motivation for the staged release of the content. The Wooded Kingdom post Bowser is gorgeous. But I agree with you, the game for me was an underwhelming breeze through up until the ruined kingdom. Once there. this game went next level and has done nothing but slap me around with cool level design and nostalgic throw backs. It's a great game!
I love Super Mario Odyssey, but I haven’t played much of it yet, so the title for Best Mario game still goes to Super Mario 64 in my opinion.
Odyssey is great so far. I'm in the snow kingdom, trying to win the race. Over time I'll decide if it's the best. It's certainly in the running.
Looking back, I really appreciate SMB2. I tire of Bowser & company at times. I really like the change of pace the Toad King brought in #2 as well as other different characters (shy guys vs. Goombas) & the graphics & play were so unique & different from any other mario game. You could also play as mario, luigi, toad, or the princess. Every character had different talents. Wish they did something different again.
It's a great game that does loads of incredible things. I love the script, think the game probably has more imagination and fun with settings than any other Mario game and I think there's clearly a lot of game there. It's also the most skillfully accessible/scaleable 3D Mario game (which is very important).
However I don't agree with the idea that it's the best Mario game. It's just not as focused on what it wants to achieve as the Galaxy games or 3D World and the platforming (as others have noted here) doesn't build to quite the same satisfying climax.
I can see why people would propose it to be the best in the series and I think it's the best example of OCD collectathon 3D platformer I've ever played by far but that's not what I personally want in a platform game.
Now that I've finished the main story and an extra I will compare this game with Super Mario World which I think is the real contender here. Even if it seems unfair pitting 2D against 3D.
Abilities: Capture is fine, but it makes the enemies you capture harmless. It is fun, but it detracts from the difficulty. Whereas all abilities in World are flawless, including Yoshi variations.
Worlds: Odyssey takes this one. The different Kingdoms are beautiful and diverse. Worlds in SMW are mostly color variations.
Bosses: also Odyssey. The Koopa family in SMW is pretty repetitive. Bosses in Odyssey are very diverse.
Final showdown: no Mario game has touched the epicness of the final fight in SMW. The introduction of the clown flying vehicle, a staple of the franchise. Odyssey is the closest, maybe tied with Galaxy. I don't want to spoil anything but that one capture near he end is insane.
Those are my four parameters so far and this leaves both games tied in my book.
I just thought each one of Odyssey's stages could easily have been a separate game for lesser developers and it could still score a 8 or 9...
@impurekind i can't think of too many obvious issues
@Zelda_Geek dive in with the least amount of info and just play. Spoilers will lessen some of the charm. Just play, it's a truly magical experience.
Ok,this is how good this game is....
I have already posted before
But playing now in metro city I had to pause to write again how amazing this game is!
I feel like a kid again lol
Personally I love how many moons there are and some are easy because it makes you think you can get all of them and boy oh boy is that not the case, not easily anyway! Some epic gameplay so far I've played 6 hours straight and don't want to put it down!
mario galaxy 1 and 2 will forever be the greatest games i've ever played, and odyssey is definetly up there.
@Gamer401 it's hardly a drought when the titles are simply games you don't want to play. A drought is what we had with the Wii U. The switch has been the exact opposite. Enjoy your PS4 though- I'd recommend polybius but don't think it's your kind of game.
@Mikemario Yeah, none of the issues I have with the game are major problems or game-breaking bugs or anything like that; they're just little design and presentation issues that I have with the game for the most part (stuff I think wasn't really an issue in the older 2D games and that Nintendo has struggled to really nail since Mario went 3D--although many other AAA developers have managed just fine), and I listed a few of them above in probably my third post or thereabouts (#42).
Is anyone else struggling with some of the Mario moves?
for example - 'fast swim' Y+ZL .... 9 out of ten times it just does ground pound or throws cappy...
Is there a way to customise buttons? there are buttons left unused... and yet they double up on some and make it tricky
@impurekind Nintendo isnt a aaa developer. It's Nintendo. What games this year do you put above odyessy?
@darthstuey why did people say their Wii was "collecting dust"? Because there were no games they wanted. It was all shovelware. Also from the NES to the GameCube there was AAA 3rd party support, though it started to slowdown even more with the GCN. Nintendo has always been slow to release content, since the NES that was the case. The difference was all the AAA 3rd party support that filled in the blanks.
Now they want everyone to just accept C grade 3rd party support as AAA 3rd party support, but I'm literally not buying it. I'm not that desperate. If others want it that's fine. People like Phone games too and there's nothing wrong with that. From the NES onward I have paid for and played great games and I'll continue to do so.
Knowing this is Nintendo's way of doing business I'm fine with that. I'll pay the 3 games that will come out and that will be fine. If more come out, like a new Waverace or 1080 snowboard game I'll pick it up. But C grade games, Yoshi, Kirby, Pokémon, or old 3rd party games I played years ago, I'll pass.
I'll be getting another system so I can play Watchdogs 3, Just Cause 3, Witcher 3, and some of the new AAA grade titles.
@Deathwalka New Donk City is great, just like gamers expected. We always knew it would be cool for Mario to be in the real world. I wish the city was double that size, but the Switch has its limits.
I've played Mario games since to NES and SMO is a great nod to all those games.
I am now 50+ hours in and currently at 869 moons and I am still loving every minute in the game. Even though I play them a lot I do not love the 2d Mario's as they are very limited in what is possible to do in the screen. Mario 64 is a master piece for me and since then something was missing as nothing got even close (sunshine has unfortunately a lot of movement and camera flaws even comparing with 64, galaxy's are as much 3d as new sonic games and the Wii, Wii u and 3ds are at most 2.5d games). This one has the most charm of all of Mario's games, it's a homage to 64 and above all it is FUN (apart from the jump rope mini game that I will never be able to do...). Finally I am attempting the last challenge at the moment and I don't know if it is really difficult or just above average but it is awesome so far
@Mikemario @Balta666 I disagree. Nintendo is a AAA 1st party developer. Even if they make yoshi and Kirby games for the kids that I am not interested in playing, the quality of what they produce puts them in the top tier.
@Mikemario It's still an AAA developer, especially with its tent-pole titles like Super Mario [insert plaformer name here], Mario Kart, Legend of Zelda, Super Smash Bros. etc. Those are AAA games with budgets in the high-tens to hundreds of millions and teams of hundreds of people working on them.
Ah, the "greatest ever" convo. Since this is more opinion than fact obviously, I'll give my 2 cents. I'm just to the Metro Kingdom so far in SMO, and I can say everything I expect Mario to be in 3D is in tact, tight, and fun. I haven't come across that "Aw man that was sick!" or "Wow!" moment when a game just smacks you with it's originality or charm though. To give perspective here's how I felt about some past Mario games:
SMB1 - It was like nothing I ever played, because... I hadn't lol. That first Goomba, first mushroom, running, going down a pipe, etc was INCREDIBLE for it's time, and for me personally at age 8.
SMB2 - Just when I got used to SMB1, everything gets turned on it's head, making me learn a new way to play and with multiple characters.
SMB3 - Mind. Blown. Return back to SMB1 and perfected. So many areas, powerups, enemies, secrets, style, variety... and flying! A must play and a true homage to all things 2D Mario to close out the NES.
SMW - Eye-popping, revamped visuals, secrets galore, amazing music, original sound effects, the Yoshi effect, and all in 16 bit glory looking sexier than any Mario game before it. A must play, even if you don't play the previous 3.
SM64 - Like nothing ever played before it, Mario managed to give me near the exact same feeling I got from SMB1. It was fun just to make Mario interact in this new gameplay style with his taylor made moveset, and running around the sandbox worlds did exactly what it was supposed to do for Mario in 3D.
Now, SMS didn't give me the "wow's" or "whoa's", but it was a better looking, "oh this is a different setting", continuation of what SM64 already did, so while fun to play, and FLUDD was interesting to toy with, I wasn't blown away. Enter SMG 1 & 2-- Again, I was used to Mario in 3D at this point, but the whole planetoid, gravity, and first time orchestra quality music DID blow my mind and made me stop and say "it sure is a fun time to play 3D Mario games" and I felt Galaxy perfected and moved forward the 3D Mario style. So, SMO so far is giving me a "oh, this a different kind of backdrop", but only the aesthetic of the kingdoms has impressed me. Otherwise, I simply find SMO as a fun Mario game. Once I beat it, I'll look back and see if I found the "it" factor that would make me think of it as one of the greatest Mario's. Stay tuned!
Edit: I will add this about SMO-- The mechanic of jumping into devices/enemies you could say "is" Mario's powerups, and with that said, it's pretty fun and used in very creative ways, some predictable, and some less so. So again, it's coming of to me as "very fun", but "greatest" or "one of the greatest" still pending
@yeayeanaynay There's always DLC...and Luigi's next big adventure..
@Gamer401 games like golf story are most certainly not C grade games. Like I say if you don’t like the majority of what’s on offer that’s fine. I’ve bought far more for the switch this year (round about 30:2 ratio) than the PS4 and would imagine next year will be the same. The switch is in no shape or form having a game drought. Just check out the reviews for the weekly eshop games on this site and see the response from most readers. Most of us are thankful for a week where we don’t want to buy a game. I haven’t even started stardew valley yet and I’ve had it for weeks. (Damn I missed Halloween) I’m about 13 hours in to golf story, have put 30 plus hours into tumbleseed, a few levels into Mario rabbids, stuck on shantae and wonder boy. Then there are the wonderful high score chasers like thumper and the bullet hell of butcher. I should possibly stop buying. Games you don’t fancy- totally no problem with that. Drought- not at all.
@darthstuey I purchased Zelda,............................................................................................................(drought)............................................................................................I purchased a SMO,..............................................(drought)......................................................??
@Gamer401 yes new donk city is awesome and now I got to snow kingdom and the charm just blows me away! I have fun just wondering like a kid in a candy store lol
So far this and botw are the 2 best games but I gotta disagree there are so many great games on switch
I feel there was never any drought as it always had quality games
I'm one of those gamers who can find the context and immersion in any and all genre and manner of games and trust me if your as open minded as I am with games you will have so much fun
@impurekind yeah but i dont think you can really put them in with other developers. They are on another level. Super mario is the highest selling franchise in history. By a long way
@Gamer401 okay you are boring me now. Please go and look up drought in the dictionary.
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