
With the middle of the week coming around it's time for the Media Create chart results in Japan. It was a week with a number of new releases, but it's the Switch hardware sales that really catch the eye.
We'll start off with software as we normally do, and this week sees Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon unsurprisingly continue their run at the top. New releases generally had modest starts, with Beyblade Burst: God and Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney both having minor impacts on 3DS. The top 20 is below with lifetime sales in brackets.
- [3DS] Pokemon Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon (Nintendo, 11/17/17) – 168,978 (836,417)
- [NSW] Super Mario Odyssey (Nintendo, 10/27/17) – 77,751 (792,059)
- [PS4] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva Future Tone DX (Limited Edition Included) (Sega, 11/23/17) – 34,896 (New)
- [NSW] Splatoon 2 (Nintendo, 07/21/17) – 30,275 (1,373,530)
- [PS4] Call of Duty: WWII (SIE, 11/03/17) – 21,512 (290,995)
- [3DS] Pokemon Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon Double Pack (Nintendo, 11/17/17) – 20,297 (268,080)
- [NSW] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo, 04,28,17) – 18,846 (837,850)
- [NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Limited Edition Included) (Nintendo, 03/03/17) – 15,162 (657,015)
- [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf Amiibo+ (Nintendo, 11/23/16) – 10,806 (281,571)
- [PS4] Star Wars Battlefront II (Deluxe Edition Included) (EA, 11/17/17) – 10,734 (49,503)
- [3DS] Beyblade Burst: God (FuRyu, 11/23/17) – 9,550 (New)
- [3DS] Style Savvy: Styling Star (Nintendo, 11/03/17) – 6,256 (54,605)
- [PS4] Gran Turismo Sport (Limited Edition Included) (SIE, 10/19/17) – 5,940 (193,443)
- [3DS] Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (Limited Edition Inlcuded) (Capcom, 11/23/17) – 4,832 (New)
- [PS4] ARK: Survival Evolved (Spike Chunsoft, 10/26/17) – 4,308 (114,287)
- [PS4] Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 Deluxe Edition (Bandai Namco, 11/23/17) – 4,216 (New)
- [NSW] Pokken Tournament DX (Nintendo, 09/22/17) – 4,197 (126,530)
- [NSW] 1-2-Switch (Nintendo, 03/03/17) – 3,921 (283,108)
- [PS4] Assassin’s Creed Origins (Ubisoft, 10/27/17) – 3,662 (91,997)
- [PS4] Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus (Bethesda Softworks, 11/23/17) – 3,555 (New)
Moving on to hardware there's terrific news for Nintendo with impressive sales of the Nintendo Switch, with supply allowing a substantial jump into six figures. It's worth noting that the 'Explorer Edition' of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild came out last week (in the West, too) so that may have helped, but even with that in mind it seems that demand remains extremely high for Nintendo's platform. It blew away all competition, though the New 2DS LL and New 3DS LL (XL) also had decent weeks. Check out the results below (last week's sales in brackets).
- Switch – 145,200 (86,999)
- PlayStation 4 – 20,384 (18,126)
- New 2DS LL – 20,283 (29,013)
- New 3DS LL – 11,511 (11,074)
- PlayStation 4 Pro – 6,525 (8,176)
- PlayStation Vita – 5,964 (3,090)
- 2DS – 2,838 (3,113)
- New 3DS – 254 (280)
- Xbox One X – 212 (143)
- Xbox One – 196 (104)
- Wii U – 85 (43)
- PlayStation 3 – 46 (46)
A fantastic week of hardware sales for Nintendo, then; we'll see how Xenoblade Chronicles 2 performs next time.
[source gematsu.com]
Comments 108
No surprise really. It's a good console and Japan seem to like mobile devices.
No surprise really.
I'm surprised Animal Crossing New Leaf is still so high up on the list. At this point, is there any gamer who doesn't own that game already? LOL. Nice to see it still doing so well though!
Smashed it! Go Nintendo!
What a jump! What could be the cause? Hopefully its just restock, or maybe Japan has a Black Friday I don't know about.
r.i.p battlefront 2
Switch got boost power!
Its Nintendos world...we just live in it.
Wow, impressive! This has got to get heads turning.
@DarthFoxMcCloud This is most likely because of the new interest in the brand generated by pocket camp
Not sure if Japan does Black Friday, but in comparison to the other consoles, that's a heck of a jump.
Wowzers. Amazing. Sony will definitely be coming out with some form of hybrid sometime in 2019, no question.
@Thierry You're assuming they have the cash flow to support that.
Lol at xbox one x.
The complicated name consoles, with very laughable backward compatibles, Blah Microsoft exclusives, Pricey price, still stuck on TV, No wonder Japanese people hates it.
The Power of xbox one x practically is a Big Joke.
So much consistant good news as far as sales figures for the Switch! I am unsure of how to respond. Its been a long time - I'm not used to such good news.
@Thierry I can't see how they can (but I am always wrong lol)
Is this supply issues FINALLY coming to an end? Very interesting jump, especially since other consoles remained stable.
The question is: Are Sony happy to be number one pretty much everywhere EXCEPT their home country? You would think so sleeping on pillows and mattresses full of cash, but who knows? I question if their PS4 games would work on a handheld like Nintendo's games do.
@Anti-Matter Xbox has traditionally never done well in Japan, so I think it's more cultural than having anything to do with the console's relative merits. I doubt Microsoft even bother marketing it over there.
@Anti-Matter While I have never been a fan of the X-box family, don't be too harsh on them for their naming convention. You are loyal to the company that named a console the Wii-U after all. Equally as confusing.
Wow, Miku in good position, waiting, then, for a new Hatsune Miku project Mirai, obviously, in Switch!!
And, about of Rhythm games, Konami, when a new Dance Dance Revolution?, Bomberman did very good / great !!
This game doesn't interest me, but with switch sales that high I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a port of monster hunter world is coming to switch.
Wow, that's impressive. Japan seriously has dumped Sony, it seems.
@Thierry They've pretty much said they won't. Trouble is, they really can't balance having consoles competing against themselves......they inevitably abandon one if it starts impacting their core business that they absolutely depend upon for lifeblood. That's what happened to Vita. PS4 couldn't be interfered with or have attention diverted to it, as the obvious success. Now they're running PS4 and PSVR but at least they're related (and many believe they'll abandon PSVR as well.) But they just can't risk bringing out a hybrid console that competes with PS4 or causes any brand confusion. They may WANT to have one, but business-wise, it just isn't a simple move.
@itslukec
Yes.
Wii U was a Terrible era of Nintendo.
I admitted that.
I felt sorry to Nintendo because of Wii U failure.
@NEStalgia
I wonder if Monster Hunter World ps4 will be totally flop...
Considering this trend on Japan right now.
They tend to forget Sony slowly.
Switch sold 145,200 and PS4 only 20k...
Obviously Nintendo is doomed
This was the biggest week of Switch sales outside of launch.
Quite a jump on the Switch, even more surprising since no big releases. Splatoon 2, Odyssey and MK8D continue decent numbers and I predict the latter 2 are on their way to 1 million physical sales each in Japan. Zelda not doing too bad and may eventually pass 1 million too but if so, not for some time. Wonder if the open world style doesn't resonate as well; although Zelda has been on a bit of a downward trend in its home nation.
@ricklongo No, the supply issue in Japan still stands. Still sold out. The Switch numbers in Japan is still a supply issue, not a demand issue. However, the supply has increased WW considerably during the past 6 weeks or something. You should expect considerably higher numbers during the December weeks, according to the ResetEra Japan sales thread.
Guys, it's been a couple weeks of good sales for switch. PS4 is still huge in Japan, people haven't 'ditched' Sony lol.
I'd say it's black Friday sales and sales from people waiting for a switch all year. PS4 will keep going, I'd say nearly everyone in Japan just has a PS4 at this point, lol.
Wonder what Sony's hybrid system is gonna be like though 😂
Great week for Microsoft too! Both the Xbox One and the Xbox One X hit three digits each, meaning that if you add them together, you get six digit sales figures. Enough to rival the Switch!
No idea why people are so keen to write Microsoft off in the region. Basic arithmetic shows they're putting out some pretty competitive numbers.
Yikes, Odyssey already sold more than Zelda in Japan?
And the Switch is outselling PS4 5/1?
They're probably right to up the production as dramatically as they are reportedly doing.
The Switch will fail, they said.
It has no games, they said.
Third parties will ignore it, they said.
Nintendo is doomed, they said.
...Well, that last statement may be partially correct. The Switch did get Doom.
I don't think this is a special shopping Black Friday kind of jump......otherwise all the other systems would have seen a boost.....this is a everyone now wants a Switch and it doesn't matter how many they send to stores it's gonna sell out.....at least for sometime.
Whenever the next direct comes I bet it is loaded with 3rd party "surprises"
@Anti-Matter I think it's a safe bet MHW flops in Japan, anyway, though Capcom seems to be expecting that and their numbers aren't showing high expectations to meet with. That's why they ported XX to Switch, after all!
They're hoping to make MH a "thing" in the West. It's a shame, it looks to me like the right game for the wrong target group, as though executives built their dreams on the impressive install base numbers without matching a demographic to it.
Sony should go third party. It's a shame I can't play Sony games on my Switch...
Damn I know the Switch would continue to be a success in Japan but I never knew it would make that big of a jump in numbers. Third parties would be stupid to ignore the Switch now.
@MrGawain their Gravity Rush 2 is a sequel to a handheld game. Games like Horizon, Bound or The Last Guardian would work, too. And Switch demonstrates that pretty much anything can work in portable form. Which has also inspired some of Sony's most imaginative (dare I say, even most Nintendoesque?) first party titles from LocoRoco and Patapon to Gravity Rush and Tearaway.
@readyletsgo If "nearly everyone in Japan just has a PS4 at this point" at 5.6M units sold, how does that relate to the 23.6M 3DS units in Japan? "Nearly everyone in Japan has four or five 3DS machines"?
@readyletsgo PS4 isn't so huge in Japan. Its on the rest of the world. Only sold like 5,5 million in Japan so far.
PS4 and XBone have a lot of raw power...but it goes to show you that's not what's important in the end. Great new games and ideas along with INNOVATION are the winning combo.
So Animal Crossing beats Battlefront II and 1-2-Switch beats Assassin's Creed.
Boy I love Japan
Ha ha ha ha.
To think, all the clowns that have come and gone on this site knocking the company and the hybrid idea...
Eat it. Just eat it. Schmucks.
Wow. I suppose Nintendo actually might see the Switch install base overtake the PS4 install base in Japan by the end of next year (I still doubt it for next but the past few weeks make it possible...).
Even if they don’t it looks like Switch has effectively ‘won’ the Japanese market for the next 5 years or more. There’s no realistic way back for Sony there - I just can’t see them managing a hybrid themselves without completely hamstringing themselves in their fight against Microsoft in the West.
Over the coming years this should mean that Switch becomes the main focal point for Japanese developers.
@Thierry and if they do it won’t have any internal storage and will require proprietary memory cards that cost 3x the cost of a similar SD card.
@Maxz lol I love your arithmetic...
The real news is Wii U sales have DOUBLED in the past week from 40 to 80. Second wind!!
😛
I wanna see the latest figures over here in the west...I guarantee you it will be similar. So many reports that the switch has been the hottest Black Friday gadget....which wasn't even discounted lol!
I really hope Zelda has a very very very long tail sales curve all around the world. The amount of effort and investment that goes into that deserves the biggest reward it can get...
Expect the Switch to sell 1+ million units in December. It will be a great month for Nintendo.
Xenoblade Launch sales:
XC1: 80,000
XCX: 89,000
XC2: 100,000 (My prediction)
@datamonkey
Zelda Breath of the Wild is on track to become the best-selling entry in the franchise.
It gives me so much pleasure to see Splatoon 2 outselling CoD despite being launched over 3 months earlier on a system with half the install base.
Now if only the UK would be as enlightened.
Switch can't be stopped!
It's nice finally having a valid reason to use these:

@Deathwalka It's pretty bizzarre to see the hot black friday item be a full price item! Meanwhile it was my chance to load up on discounted Playstation gear and games since I already paid full price for Switch on launch
@RobotReptile LOL, I think it might have topped it's highest sales week in the UK....
@StuTwo The PS4 install base is pretty small in Japan. Had WiiU remained on the market and getting viable releases, THAT likely would have surpassed the PS4 install base there. It was less than a million behind at the point when they stopped delivering new games.
But yeah, post-3DS the last thing Sony wanted to see in the homeland is the Switch reprising its role and surpassing it. They had about a 1 year window to take over and that's down the drain now. This momentum really crushes Playstation. And doubly so that these will be seen out and about, socially, while PS4 will not. Can't top that advertising of seeing it on every train.
@retro_player_22
Take a look at the charts. No switch 3rd party games, all developed by nintendo, what's more is 3rd party know their games won't be big sellers on switch in Japan let alone in the West. Yep some or many are watching the switch but it's mainly indie, Western AAA devs don't seem interested, yes Bethesda gave us some great games and wolfenstein on the way but if numbers are abysmal then Bethesda won't release anymore games. Expect many 3rd party mediocre Japanese games though with the odd gem
@NEStalgia
Can't say i have seen any switch units out in the wild
I am the only one at work with a switch but we all have a ps4, we talk about games and hardware all the time, and we even talked xbox owners into buying ps4, i would say power of speech is more powerful than seeing someone with a piece of hardware in a distant seat on a train or bus etc
None of the guys at work will ever buy switch,, they call it a NVIDA toy, as for me i am more open minded, hence why i own multiple hardware, i guess i play on my JXD more than any other because of 30 years plus of gaming history it offers me, though i do play Skyrim on switch at weekends, no time for such a game during week thx to working my ass off
@WhistleFish You're just experiencing a different network effect. The visibility of Switch in Japan will be very different to the visibility that you will experience. They will be ubiquitous there.
Here comes the pain!🙀😈👊🏻

@WhistleFish
call it an Nvidia toy
Well that explains it then. Immaturity and bias outweigh common sense every time. A statement like that exudes ridicule, and ridicule only comes from the immature.
At my work, no less than 6 people have bought a Switch after seeing me with mine. 2 of them were hardcore Xbox One gamers who play Ghost Recon, The Division, Battlefront, etc. Now they're playing Splatoon 2 and Mario Kart 8 as well.
Practically everyone who sees it... wants one. Even the hardcore gamers of other consoles. Obviously there are still a segment of gamers who will never consider it. The people you speak of. Nothing you can do about that.
@NEStalgia I'd agree - in Japan it's hard to see what they can do to get back in competition. By the time we're assessing the aftermath of the coming Pokemon tsunami, Switch will be so far ahead there and positioned to dominate for years. Potentially a decade if Nintendo gets it right.
In many ways it's the inverse of what we see in the West. Nintendo will have a heavily entrenched console in the early stages of its life cycle. When one console has that built in network effect and becomes the undisputed lead console for development...
...well that's a very, very difficult nut for Sony to crack in the same way that the West is a very, very difficult nut for Nintendo to crack.
@EvilRegal best gif ever. Lololol
@JaxonH I've been asked about 6 times this week on a rush hour train into london, 'What is that you are playing with'? When I say the switch most are aware of the advertising and are impressed you can pick up and go. One guy this week spent the entire hour journey staring over my shoulder as I played Doom. I could feel the jealousy radiating from him, haha.
@JaxonH
Yep it's a bit different where i work
9 ppl have ps4, 4 ppl with xone, 2 Vita and 1 switch, though one of the guys will have to buy a switch, his partner wants one. When he gets one for her he will play it and then try persuade others to buy. In fairness to some of these guys they had wii u and got burnt, so now they lost faith which is understandable, i own a switch but it ain't anything special for me, i was hybrid gaming with my JXD long before i had switch, actually switch wasn't even released, so that side of it didn't have the wow factor for me but i can see why it would for the many others with their first introduction to hybrid gaming
@crackafreeze more like a Black Week... from Nov 23th to Dec 1st. Crazy.
But the BIG shopping season hasn’t come yet. New Year is huge in Japan. I’m curious to see how the Switch fares then.
These are huge figures that are only coming from Japan, they really are dominating the gaming market there.
@th3r3ds0x Yes, and don't forget the games will run off special proprietary discs.
@ieatdragonz regardless that they for some reason had a black friday this year.. Japan does the whole santa thing if they have young kids AND they often buy gifts for new years. Tail end of November and December tends to be a huge shopping season in Japan. But people could simply be snapping them up a head of time so they don't have to line up during the busier season.
@westman98 Yeah, I was wondering what everyone's Xenoblade 2 predictions would be. Interesting to see those XC1 and XCX figures. My initial guess for XC2 was 140,000-150,000, but I now think I've overestimated. Anything around or near six figures will be good, I guess.
@EvilRegal lmao that is probably exactly how the haters reacted to the success
@WhistleFish @stutwo had it right. We'll be seeing them in the US in the wild regularly too....uk is uk and probably won't.... But specifically in Japan they are going to be on every train at every ramen shop, on every street.... They'll be their own advertising
The King is back Baby, hopefully the Resident Evil Revelations collection will do well on its own patch & worldwide so in the future we can get RE4, RE5, RE Remake, RE Zero, add to that the virtual console & Metroid & Yoshi, just need PES now come on Konami make it happen you started out with ISS on the Snes it needs to come back home
@WhistleFish
The Switch is selling fantastic in Japan, as expected. They are not really into home consoles anymore, and the Switch is just made for that market. Nintendo is going to dominate there.
In the US the Switch is selling really good as well, although not dominating as in Japan. The Switch is selling as well as PS4, and it's a success for now. It is encouraging.
In Europe the Switch has disappointed, and UK is probably the worst area for Nintendo. This is the reason why you haven't seen many "Switches" in the wild.
It's almost the opposite situation in Europe compared to Japan. PS4 is totally dominating Europe.
Mario and Zelda haven't really made the Switch take of in Europe. Perhaps a new exclusive Pokemon game for Switch could change that?
We will see more great Western AAA support in the future though, if the Switch continues to sell this well in the US as it does now!
But perhaps some will not release a physical version in Europe, if the sales doesn't get any better?
Wow those Switch sales! ✌🏻👏🏼👏🏼
@superguy123 yes and it makes me so glad that is flopping. Down to loot boxes, down to EA.
@MrGawain wrong question. Sony is not number one any where. So the question is how scary this is for them.
@dres only problem Europe market ain't poop.
Japan alone is a bigger market than Europe.
@dres Europe not even count.
@readyletsgo Sony has said they have no plans to make a hybrid console. It would mean they would have to compete directly with Nintendo in that handheld space and have proved time AND time again they just can't win. PS4 is a hit they just need to worry about that.
@retro_player_22 some third parties like Namco and Bethesda are backing up the switch. Even Capcom is making more games for them.
@dres
Nintendo has sold as many, if not more Switches in Europe than in Japan, given that the last reported shipment figures as of Sep 2017 were 1.95 million in Japan vs 2.56 million in other territories outside of America and Japan.
Nintendo is definitely weak in the UK, but they do well in Europe in general, particularly France, Germany, and Spain.
wii U at 85 still.. nice to see
It's insane that 145 200 Switches have been sold in Japan in the past week. I have been here five weeks and I have not seen even one on any store shelves in Tokyo! Just some electronic stores have paper ads where they say they have five consoles to sell and those will be raffled off, not just sold to the fastest buyers.
Only used games shops have used consoles on shelf, like Splatoon and Mario special edition consoles for 50000 yen and the regular version I've seen in used game shops going for over 40000 yen which is insanity when the normal price should be 30000 yen.
I was going to buy one during this trip, but not for those rip off prices.
@Alexprime
They are in over all sales, and I doubt they’ll be caught before they release the PS5.
@Alexprime
Nonsense. Combined Europe is a much larger market than the US and Japan. The population in the EU alone is bigger than the US.
Nintendo is selling poorly in Europe, while PlayStation and Sony is the king of the charts.
Lifetime PS4 sales (September) in all EU reached 26 millions, while only 20 million sales in the US.
PS3 sold like 34,5 millions in EU, and only like 27 million in the US.
http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/43023/Europe/
http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/43023/USA/
So Europe is a very important market, and where PS4 is outselling the Switch 3 to 1. It's the most important market for Sony!
@westman98
You can't compare EU with Japan like that. It's like 510 million people in EU vs 127 millions in Japan! ( All Europe is 743 millions )
So the Switch should have much higher sales numbers in the EU compared to Japan, but they are almost the same!
The market in the EU is overall the biggest, but Nintendo is doing poorly compared to Sony and PS4. PS4 is still outselling the Switch 3 to 1 one in Europe, while the situation is opposite in Japan.
The Switch is doing just ok in France and Germany, with moderate sales compared to PS4. But still much better than what the Wii U did
In the UK alone the Switch is selling less than the X1 every week. Not very good
@dres
Europe having a greater population doesn't mean Nintendo needs to sell 6X more hardware in Europe than in Japan for the Switch to be considered a strong seller in the region.
What matters more than just "population" is "mature dedicated gaming population".
@westman98
No, but the Switch should still sell much better in Europe than in Japan, than it currently is. It's simply not a big seller in Europe compared to PS4.
Switch is doing ok, but not great. The Switch hype train haven't reached Europe yet !!!
So in Japan the Switch is doing it fantastic, and is reaching the same sales numbers as in Europe, where it is not doing great at all.
"Dedicated" gaming population or not, the European gaming market is still the largest, where most unit get sold overall!
Look at week 41, 2017 in the links I posted above. Overall hardware sales that week:
Europe : 254,072 units
USA: 183,816 units
Japan: 89,196 units
Europe and Japan is also difficult to compare, because Japan is more into handhelds, witch benefits the Switch, while Europe is still very much a home console market.
@dres
Vgchartz data is not reliable, especially for Europe, as GfK never provides concrete sales data for all of Europe like Media Create does for Japan, and leaked data from GfK is vitually nonexistent. Just because Vgchartz is the only public website that attempts to track gaming hardware and software sales doesn't mean it is reliable or accurate.
But yes, Europe is a bigger market that Japan.
@NEStalgia About Sony and portable or hybrid hardware in the future. I'm thinking they can't just ignore this success, despite what was said. It gets crazier every month to just ignore it, in my opinion. Especially since the idea of portable and hybrid gaming as offered by Nintendo is finding solid success outside of Japan.
I mean there are factors to consider, but I don't think cannibalization of PS4 is an issue anymore. It made its play and is hugely successful. I think a new portable PS could have made a more successful additional game hardware add-on than PSVR, for instance. At least, in retrospect, it's easier to imagine.
Maybe the opportunity has already passed Sony buy, however. 2018 a likely impossible goal (unless they have been secretly prototyping portable successors all this time), and 2019 feels too late.
It's kind of fun to speculate, though, because the game console business is completely up in the air in terms of the future. So many possible directions and giant missteps. Should be entertaining to observe and I'm happy Nintendo has a strong foothold, at the moment, because I love their games.
@aaronsullivan Sony itself has already said similar to what Nintendo said during the Wii era, that they see a perfectly acceptable situation that people buy both a PS4 and a Switch. So long as nobody buys an XBox they're happy. They're treating it as a separate unrelated market, and to a large degree they're right (which is part of Nintendo's wisdom to NOT build a powerhouse home console....taking on SCE as a DIRECT competitor has never ended well for anyone.)
Trying to do a portable console, say, next year...(Vita-Go? ), would have a similar problem Vita had. They bring it out with it's own library, they ignore it largely in favor of putting all their effort into their hugely successful PS4. Then in a year or two after they announce PS5.....and abandon the hybrid to focus consumer attention on the continuation of their sure-fire product they can NOT afford to lose momentum on.
That would be like Nintendo announcing a new X1X class console now that Switch has momentum. One or the other wouldn't survive. Similar to, in part, what happened with WiiU. Announced right after the 3DS came out. Priorities clashed, one had to have focus, and the winner was 3DS. 2 ecosystems have never actually proven to be good business for any company other than Wii/DS because one of the two wasn't really focused on the gaming market at all.
But mostly PS4 is clearly the preferred product in most of the world. They are personally not thrilled at losing the home market, but since the home market is smaller than it was, and is smaller than the market they have, it's not commercially devastating to them to lose Japan almost completely. They gave up a small, shrinking market in favor of a larger growing one.
The only place they may see issues is Switch rising to prominence in the US as well. That one WILL hurt them somewhat, but I do think a lot of Switch buyers, like a lot of us here, area also PS4/XBox/PC gamers, so if it's not direct competition, they won't be too upset. Not upset enough to tamper with their whole production scale just to try to reclaim a market they failed in twice.
@WhistleFish Your friends and workers don't exactly equate to 8 million people with Switches and growing but ok
@dres Dude, Of Course Europe is bigger than Japan, Europe is a continent whilst Japan is a Country lol. Then again just becuase isn't selling as well as PS4 in Europe doesn't mean the Switch is short of amazing...System is reaching Wii Sales Numbers And making as much money as it as well. Europe may be the biggest but USA + Japan is Bigger market, Heck Nintendo is going to tap into the Chinese Market And South Korea so Not selling as Well in Europe isn't really much of a loss.
Plus Don't think Nintendo really cares for the UK.
@NabbitFan730
True but they do equate to 60 million plus ps4 owners and still growing but ok
@MsgBoardGamer @NEStalgia
The video game market is clearly bearing the PS4 and Switch as they are both hugely successful, right now. Why wouldn't Sony want BOTH markets? They say it's not a big market opportunity but those are just words that are becoming embarrassing in the face of sales numbers, in my opinion. It's not that Sony is/was lying, it's just that the situation is changing before everyone's eyes.
There used to be fear of cannibalizing your own products but when it comes to an area of expertise like game hardware, you either cannibalize your own sales or hand a market segment off to another company. Look at Apple. Should it have worried about cannibalizing its iPod sales with the iPhone? Or the Macs with its iPad? As new form factors and segments of a market show demand and you don't have something in that space... well, someone else takes the sales.
Of course, Sony has had its lunch eaten by Nintendo in the portable space before and maybe it is gun shy.
The future of gaming is in a volatile state, right now, in my estimation. The industry players have been surprised by Nintendo's success with the Switch. Sony and Microsoft went for mid-generation power leaps, making the next steps unclear to consumers and the companies themselves, I'm guessing. PC gaming has not disappeared. Micro-transactions and loot boxes and other monetization schemes to support giant budgeted games are backfiring.
I don't know. I'd think there are many hedging of bets being discussed behind the scenes, and my memory says that Sony likes to put on a confident face when it is leading and isn't afraid of last minute changeups to take advantage of new situations like apparently happened with the PS4 price point.
I mean the way I've had this absolutist Sony position explained to me by someone else, too, it seems like Sony should just release some of their exclusive franchise games on the Switch. The portable console doesn't effect them, right? So, why not? Make some dough on game sales...
@dres bullpoopie boy. Europe is not big for videogames period.
@MrGawain the gaystation is only 60 millions lifetime sales that's not big .actually that's bullpoo sales.
@dres like sony give a nibelsnarf about Europe. Sony is going bankrupt FYI. 2022 wait for the announcement. So long sony.
@Alexprime Watch the profanity, please.
@aaronsullivan I don't say I disagree with you - it's obviously an attractive market for Sony. They must be able to see that but just being able to see that a market is attractive doesn't mean that you're necessarily equipped to exploit that market.
@NEStalgia is right that Sony has to ensure that the PS5 launches successfully. That is their Number 1 priority.
Now the PS5 itself can't be the hybrid console - it needs to be significantly more powerful than the XBox One X. Diverting teams to develop games for a separate hybrid (which would be necessary since it would almost certainly need an ARM processor) would also detract from their do-or-die competition with Microsoft but if they don't then they have a hybrid that will never have a library capable of competing with the Switch.
Even aside from this launching a separate hybrid can confuse the marketing message from Sony. Most consumers don't pay too much attention to what's happening in the industry. We know the difference between a Playstation 4 and a Playstation Vita 2 but for most people they're both just "a Playstation". That challenge can be overcome but it would make Playstation harder to understand than Microsoft's pitch for XBox going forwards: "the most powerful home console where 3rd party games look and play best".
And, of course, in the midst of all this there is a massive elephant in the room: Nintendo have established a very strong beach head in that marketplace with a console that's less than a year old and has 5+ years left in the tank.
Nothing is impossible but for Sony to enter the hybrid market and compete more directly with Nintendo there they'd face an incredibly difficult task. Their best option right now is to keep course, defend their Western markets against Microsoft and try to ensure that the bigger Japanese games (that will likely be Switch-led going forwards) appear on the PS4 and utilise the extra power of the PS4 Pro where possible.
@aaronsullivan It's not that they don't want both markets so much as there's an opportunity cost involved that given their own history in the field, and the commitment they need to continue the momentum of their primary success, along with the fact that they control the larger market overall, it's just not the best of investments to try to move into that sphere. The reward isn't big enough. If you remove the overlap customers that already buy their product, they gain nothing there. How big is the market that's buying ONLY a hybrid and not a PS4 outside japan? And is Japan alone worth the huge R&D involved?
Apple rarely works as an example because they have their own dynamic. Most of their customer base doesn't buy their product because it's the best product in the category, or the best value, they buy it because it's Apple. The brand is the selling point like fashion accessory. So they had little risk of cannibalizing since their customers are going to stick within their interworking ecosystem by and large. They were also not really the market leader of a whole industry before the iphone to worry about cannibalization.
In the case with Sony, you need to keep in mind they've tried 3 times with the handheld industry and failed 3 times. PSP, PSPGo, and PSVita. PSP was marginally successful in Japan but otherwise a failure. PSPGo and PSVita were dismal failures. So it's a field they have almost no success in, while the current product, Switch is from the company with an almost 30 year dominance in that field.
Put another way, Sony trying to take on Nintendo in the handheld space would be like Nintendo trying to take on Sony in the console space. They've distilled down to the niche each of them handle expertly, and the other can't really get an inroads into an opposite. Microsoft's Phil Spencer already said years ago they weren't interested in handheld because Nintendo had such a lock on that market. It's just not economical to try to compete there unless Nintendo stumbles there. Switch gen clearly isn't that.
Yes Switch is also a home console, but it's a different console with a mostly different library, and therefore is more complimentary than competitive, enlarging the visibility of the video games retail industry as a whole without being a direct threat to Sony outside Japan. Now if PS4 sales start DROPPING in favor of Switch in the West.....that would put a serious motive for them to invest and try to get in. I do think a mobile component will become important if the Switch really cements.....at least for publishers. But for Sony, it only becomes important if it starts interfering with their market leadership position, which they've demonstrated several times now becomes at risk if they spread too thin. They're already trying to push the PSVR platform as a second platform. They don't need platform #3, and they're already tasking their 3rd parties with both regular PS4 and PS4 Pro feature support.... There's also the flip side. If they tried to integrate it with PS4 itself, so games are compatible, they'd be encouraging developers to focus on ARM ports for Playstation. Once they do that the publishers might as well publish on Switch as well. It could have a secondary effect of HELPING the PS4 library cross over to the Switch which would create competition of their own making.
Your characterization of Sony is pretty good. But as you also said they're confident while they're leading. Right now they have little reason to propose a strategic change and every reason to continue securing their position as it is. We've seen them move away from emphasizing power in the wake of X1X, and instead a return to their PS2 era position of emphasizing their vast exclusive library. Something Microsoft can't compete with, and something that's radically different from Nintendo's vast exclusive library. That's not a bad position for them. PS2 was their biggest success until they started trying to play X-Box's game and nearly blew it. Sony's a content company now, but it's working, that content is driving customers.
IF their PS4 strategy shows signs of faltering because it's not a hybrid, sure, they'll change strategies and put together a hybrid to compete. But right now they're not in a position of playing catch-up to Switch outside Japan. And a Japan-only hardware platform that barely sells elsewhere and still is likely to be #2 in Japan.....would look like Vita. So it won't happen unless it becomes necessary. Right now PS4 shows no signs of faltering worldwide... If PSVR falters they might do it too....but with the big black friday push on PSVR I think they're going to stay in with a PSVR2 for PS5.
MICROSOFT on the other hand, I've long said I could see them doing the hybrid thing. With Surface they have the manufacturing infrastructure and they've shown with X1X they're willing to go big with hardware in the absence of IP. The problem though is between a $300 that plays Mario and a $500+ handheld that plays.....Forza? Sea of Theives? Is that a competition worth diving into?
@StuTwo Also, don't forget the well spent money of buying exclusivity of Japanese games they desire to secure their smaller foothold in Japan. Pricy, but bribery always works.
@MsgBoardGamer Yeah, traditionally you're spot on. That's what X-Box originally was explicitly designed for, to shore up Windows gaming, and specifically DirectX over OpenGL as the standard dev API for games while Playstation was rising.
But the two places it could work are, that with Surface, the mobile windows ecosystem is actually arguably their top priority, so it could synergize with the windows & cloud services company mission pretty well actually. Though I could also see them really pushing their luck and making it all Azure dependent....which would make for a ridiculed product "ahead" of its time again.
The other change is recently they restructured XBox to not be a subsidiary of the Windows division anymore and to be it's own division....Spencer now reports directly to Nadella rather than to the Windows chief, so they have a little more autonomy away from "doing what's good for Windows" now and can "do what's good for XBox" instead. Functionally it won't change much, but it does relieve roadblocks like you described.
I think it will come down to how X1X goes over. If it looks like POWER is driving growth to high potential, they'll stick with revisions of "most powerful" hardware. Which is how they entered the market as you described (though in reality it was barely more powerful than GCN and they spent a fortune to do it.) But if the 1X doesn't really show much momentum, a strategy change could be in order. I could see them building it as part of the Surface lineup.....could actually be a cool product. A gaming laptop that works as a console. The problem is the pricing. A SurfaceBook with discrete graphics STARTS at $1500. That's no good.
No, Sony isn't going to suddenly jump back into the handheld gaming market "just cuz" the Switch is selling well. That's not how business works.
@NEStalgia
On Apple and cannibalizing and your suggesting it doesn't relate, I completely disagree with you. iPods were absolutely a market leader at the time and the most important Apple product, just as PS4 is one of Sony's most important products. iPhones DID actually cannibalize the sales of iPods over time and there was concern from some about it, but it was a great example of how shortsighted it would have been to not release a new, but related product category at the risk of taking sales from another successful product.
On the oversimplification of people who buy Apple products: though there is a segment of Apple fans that buy Apple stuff for the brand and familiarity and style, there is a large segment of console fans that act the exact same way. In fact, both fan groups that are more moderate will cite the software as a reason that they stay with what is familiar when challenged on it.
Writing the Apple analogy off for the reasons you gave is holding no water with me whatsoever.
You said, "Microsoft's Phil Spencer already said years ago they weren't interested in handheld because Nintendo had such a lock on that market. It's just not economical to try to compete there unless Nintendo stumbles there. Switch gen clearly isn't that."
Now these are real arguments against a new Sony portable that make some sense, but I'd say that Sony is in a much stronger position now.
@MsgBoardGamer
You said: "All it takes is a single misstep by Sony — who is already very dependent on the success of the PlayStation division — for them to be stuck in no-man's land with a product that cannot compete in either the handheld or home console space."
This I partly agree with. Sony has little diversification in it's hardware lineup. It basically provides one type of experience that is very similar to that of Xbox, it's competitor. One misstep could be devastating. It's almost like having options for the future would be a good business practice! (You seem to think that adding options brings more opportunities to screw up, where I'm seeing options as a fallback when one product fails).
It has been trying the VR thing, for instance, even though Xbox didn't. Is that the direction gamers are moving? Are they all flocking to VR? I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be happening very fast.
I do see a surprising surge of interest in a different hardware form-factor from Nintendo. People outside Japan are showing growing interest in dedicated gaming hardware that is less powerful but more flexible about where you play it. I think Sony is seeing that, too.
@aaronsullivan The thing with the iPhone is the iPhone was actually the target product BEFORE the iPod. But the price point, production, and market wasn't ready for it yet. Jobs discussed that as part of the iPhone launch presentation. As for the iPod, they still sell iPods, though they're more iPhone than iPod now. But generally the category doesn't exist anymore, having been replaced by phones. Did iPhone cannibalize iPod in that regard? To a degree, sure, but the whole category was fading, to be replaced by phones because the iPhone and subsequent smartphone boom doesn't take anything AWAY from the iPod...in fact it does the same thing (and much much more) in a generally smaller footprint. Pricier, of course, in Apple's world, but not on the overall market.
You may say then if hybrids take over the industry there will be no need for dedicated home consoles and it will be like an iPod. I've explored that thought on these forums before. I do think EVENTUALLY that might even happen, but mobile tech still needs to do a lot of catching up before that can work. Right now the two markets can't be combined. A portable like Switch can't have the level of compute power than PCs and dedicated consoles can have while remaining energy efficient, cool, and economical enough to be viable. It will have to remain that there is a schism between what software can run on the hybrid and what can't.
The problem is Sony, their market, and their customer base is very rooted in the "performance computing" category of software. It's not an "iPod users will become iPhone users which replaces iPod" path. The two can't replace each other. And as long as they're the market leader in the performance category spending resources on a hybrid for the sole purpose of dominating Japan is a silly waste of resources they could be using to both shore up their industry dominance in power-focused consoles, as well as grow and cement their burgeoning dominance in mass market VR. They were selling PSVR at a $100 discount on Black Friday week. That should have massively expanded PSVR's footprint in the market, but also cost them a lot of money as a loss leader to do it (I expect they lost a fair amount of money on each unit sold at that price.) If the rumors are true they bought exclusive "lockout" of Switch on MHW, that cost money. They will almost certainly be buying exclusivity contracts going forward. That costs money. Money that could have gone into a 1-region-focused separate platform that would then eat money to maintain, work on relationships with third parties for, etc, is being spent on PS4 (and behind the scenes PS5.) You can't split resources in every direction. Heck, most assume PSVR is going to be abandoned like Vita, though I think the recent sale suggests they're not doing that and intend to spend money to cement it. But at the end of the day, back to the Apple analogy, Apple didn't lose core market sales by building iPhone. The iPod was an iPod....it didn't have an "ecosystem", nor a business network of partnerships that cost a lot of manpower to maintain. A gaming console does. Diving into a new (read 3rd simultaneous platform) is a monumental task, requiring it to be run as an almost separate business with it's own contracts and agreements, and defecit spending to buy 3rd party support (would it be ONLY for Japan? Would it be a Vita situation where it drowns in the US but "floats" in Japan? Would it fail to make inroads against the Nintendo brand juggernaut in Japan and fall on its face? Would it be PS Move all over again? (Which exists now as a VR accessory that's barely used in any VR games.)
iPhone was a new product category that functionally replaced the old product, but at a higher price point.
PS Hybrid would be a "me too" product that functionally has little in common with their actual main business, risks splitting their user base from one well supported product to two unequally supported products.
Don't get me wrong I would LOVE if all consoles going forward were hybrids. But there's a cost/performance sacrifice in doing that that isn't really compatible with what Playstation is at this time, and selling a "Weak" Playstation in the form of PSP and Vita, and Vita TV/PSTV, hasn't exactly been a success. A Vita with a dock doesn't sound promising, even if it's a newer, more powerful Vita. It wouldn't do the same thing the PS4 does (not all the same games, and not at the same graphics level), and the consumer decision would be "If I can buy one console, do I want a powerful one or a hybrid one?" And if they decide on the hybrid one, it's not hard to determine which one will have more software support. Sony's never had much success with courting developers for their "weak" platforms. Amusingly, Sony becomes the "worse" Nintendo where devs don't want to spend the money on a port for weak hardware, but unlike Nintendo where they still have an interested in tapping that untapped (for them) market, there's really no compelling reason for them to do it on Sony, since they already are present on Sony's dominant platform.
Of course the only place that's a serious problem is Japan. And who invests billions in R&D for a product that exists mostly for one country to compete against a rival that's firmly established as a mere monopoly? That would be like putting together a super powerful console to take on Sony in the UK. Microsoft tried and is still #2.
Apple didn't have any of that problem to worry about when bringing out a significantly more expensive device with a build in retail store for software and music, that happened to replace the functionality of their cheaper device without such store. 100% cannibalization would have been a desirable dream for them. Hybrid cannibalization of their dominant platform where they'd have to share with Nintendo would be a nighmare for Sony, as half the company is held on life support by the success of Playstation.
@NEStalgia The iPhone was not the target product before the iPod. Maybe you are thinking of the iPad?
https://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/06/02/steve-jobs-the-ipad-concept-came-before-the-iphone/
The iPad was developed internally before the iPhone and they realized that the touchscreen could be great for a smaller phone device. Apple then focused on developing and releasing the iPhone first.
The conclusion that Apple (possibly the most successful company in the world) has made for itself is to not worry about cannibalizing sales of your own products. Why? Because it's better to be selling the product that is eating into the sales rather than someone else doing it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-on-cannibalization-2015-12
I also don't understand why you keep bringing up Japan, as my original point was that it was the success outside Japan that is forcing Sony to take notice.
Any path forward on a Sony portable would have to support a nice development path for third parties, and while its true that the AAA games are going to be pushing technical limits on the PS4, that is only one segment of PS4 success. As you know, game engines like Unreal have come a long, long way since the PS Vita launch and they scale much better, now. The Switch is a proof of concept for this, already.
In fact, this is my main point. Nintendo is showing demand for the form factor worldwide. It is succeeding with technically inferior games that win game of the year against similar games on PS4.
I tend to think the huge numbers of PS4 sales go far beyond the core gamer that thinks graphics and performance trump everything. So many are just there to, primarily have fun gaming experiences with friends. Many of those PS4 owners will be buying Switch, and I suspect that if Sony had a portable with support for the games they are already enjoying on their PS4, they'd buy that instead.
Maybe Sony doesn't believe that it can compete in that space, but why? It is (perhaps, finally?) providing a platform that both consumers and developers enjoy. That's presumably a huge part of its expertise and a great reason to, at least behind closed doors, see what they might provide.
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