Splatoon 2 is one of Nintendo's biggest critical hits of 2017, but it's not a game which plays by the rules. Instead of offering players the chance to pick whichever map they like, the game automatically rotates maps throughout the day. Not only that, but one of its most popular modes - Salmon Run - can only be played at certain points of the day.
The game's critics have attacked these seemingly arbitrary limitations, but speaking to Rolling Stone, Splatoon 2 designer Jordan Amaro states that these are a deliberate design choices by Nintendo, and stem from Japanese culture:
Rolling Stone: You once said that when you went to work for Kojima at Konami, you possessed “westerner’s knowledge” that was a hindrance rather than a help.
Jordan Amaro: “Hindrance” is probably not the word. It is a hindrance if you persist in that way of thinking while the team is going in a different direction.It’s not just language. It’s a way to perceive games, and the user. I see it on Splatoon right now. You look at Splatoon, and then people look at Overwatch. These are two totally different games. Overwatch is a self-service game. You boot the game and say, “Hey, I like this mode. I like this character. And I’m only ever going to play this mode, this character, and this map.” You’re like, “I’m going to get what I want.”
But in Japan, everything is tailored. You’ve probably heard Sheena Iyengar’s TED talk, in which she went to a restaurant in Japan and tried to order sugar in her green tea. The people at the cafe said, “One does not put sugar in green tea,” and then, “We don’t have sugar.” But when she ordered coffee instead, it did come with sugar! In Japan, there’s a sense of, “We’re making this thing for you, and this is how we think this thing is better enjoyed.” This is why, in Splatoon, the maps rotate every couple of hours. And the modes change. “I bought this game. Why can’t I just enjoy this game the way I want?” That’s not how we think here. Yes, you did buy the game. But we made this game. And we’re pretty confident about how this game should be enjoyed. If you stick with us, and if you get past your initial resistance, you’re going to have the time of your life with this game. You’re really going to love it.
Rolling Stone: You think you know what we want better than we know what we want?
Jordan Amaro: We think we know what you don’t know you want.
You think you know what you want. But we know what you will want once you understand it. There has to be some effort from the player to play ball with the developer, just like in a restaurant where there is a course menu. You enter the restaurant, and this is the course today. It’s displayed outside the restaurant. When you enter the restaurant, you know what you’re going to eat. Once you’re inside, if you want to eat something different, that’s not how it works.
Rolling Stone: With Splatoon 2, there definitely are people who want to know why they can’t play the Salmon Run mode all the time.
Jordan Amaro: I’m not allowed to speak on it, because I’m not the game director. What I can say, and what I think can be said, is that there are lots of reasons. You have to trust us that if you could play Salmon Run online anytime, that would result in a worse experience for you and everybody.
The full interview is well worth a read, as Amaro talks about working for Konami, his favourite game designers and much more besides.
[source rollingstone.com]
Comments 162
So basically, it can all be summed up as "Just because".
Great.
I'm not keen on this approach. They may think they know what I want better than myself, but I suspect they'll be wrong.
Wow, that was a very condescending and nonsensical answer. Hey Nintendo, stop catering to only your Japanese audience. I don't know if you know this, but your Western audience is actually bigger.
If Mario Kart and Smash can offer access to all of its content at any time, why can't Splatoon? I still have yet to see a good excuse for it.
They should address the fact that we can't turn the music off/down/up. Not with one of these statements, but a patch.
This is incredibly stupid. Mario Kart 8 didn't suffer from this. Neither did ARMS!
Idk, I hated it at first but have grown to like the rarity of it's style that it rotates maps/limited time salmon run. I am also guessing it evens the battlefield when you consider map rotation and not able to become stupid wealthy in abilities you unlock in salmon run
Personally, I hate that approach. Like I understand the mentality behind it and such, but it's mostly infuriating a lot of the times for me.
Basically, don't force your way onto people.
"We’re pretty confident about how this game should be enjoyed"
Says the guys that thought voice chat wasn't needed in the original game. And then haphazardly implemented it in the sequel.
"We think we know what you don’t know you want."
I think I understand what they're not trying to not say. What? Pinocchio, help me out here please.
Pretty ironic how this guy talks about Japanese culture, and everything being tailored, and "we know what's best for your gameplay experience" after a game like Breath of the Wild comes out in which it is 100% up to the player how to play the game. Sounds like a load of BS, and a reluctance to admit their servers wouldn't be able to handle the load of having all modes at all times.
Lol sorry, but this is one of the reasons I still haven't bought Splatoon 2, and probably never will.
@KirbyTheVampire If you didn't read it, then yes.
I basically stopped playing Splatoon 2 because Salmon Run is so limited. I got my fill of Turf War in the original, and Salmon Run is rarely available when I have the time and desire to play it.
Wow, so instead of thanking your customers that spent their hard-earned money on your game, you tell them, "Yeah, you bought it, but you have to play this game HOW and WHEN we tell you to. Get over it!"
I only play Salmon Run, and if it isn't available, I don't play Splatoon 2 at all, so their limited-availability reasoning (that it will force people to play other modes and reduce matchmaking time) is clearly not working on me.
One of the most flawed game design principles I've seen. Not only is it inherently incorrect, it is also based on arrogance and condescension towards consumers. Made the right choice not to get this game, as it is clear that they have no intentions of fixing their dumb system.
@RedMageLanakyn Not sure what's ironic about it. He's stating Nintendo "knows" how their games should be enjoyed. With BOTW it should be enjoyed without any structure, you do whatever you want. When it comes to Splatoon 2 there should be some structure to it simple.
He comes off as a bit arrogant, but I respect this way of designing games. The designer has a vision, and doesn't compromise it because of conventions or outside pressure.
The situation of breaking weapons in Zelda is similar. It's not the typical way of doing things, and some people hate it, but others really like it for how it fits into the bigger picture of what Zelda is trying to do.
"how this game should be enjoyed"
Forever Nintendo's downfall, as well as why they largely missed the Minecraft success window (having landed the series later than other consoles), and why Mario Maker was not released a decade sooner.
Nintendo always feels they know what's best for the gamer, instead of handing the gamer the keys.
@nab1 I read it. He didn't give a real reason at all. He basically just said "It's like this because that's how we want it. If you don't like it, suck it up, because this is just how it is because reasons. You might think you want to play whatever you want whenever you want, but you really don't. We know better, you cute naive little children."
Not the first time people from Nintendo assumed what their customers do and how they should play. It's the same reason we yet to have or may never get a trophy/achievement structure with Nintendo. Nintendo response was that consumers will begin to play games not in accordance with how they should play it if they are hunting trophies. That is so lame
@gatorboi352 Their downfall, or their greatness. What would Zelda: BotW be if it took all of its ideas from typical open world games and did nothing controversial?
"You have to trust us that if you could play Salmon Run online anytime, that would result in a worse experience for you and everybody."
Um what? You can't just say that and not explain it. So I can't play Salmon Run after work cause, you know, stuff and things. Alright then.
Personally I like the limited Salmon Run schedule, it makes it feel like an event, makes it easier to find a crew when you do get to play it, and actually fits in with the overall "lore", as it's a job you can take when Grizzco is hiring. Plus it avoids splitting the player base even more, and makes the rewards less exploitable and more like something you really have to work for.
EDIT: And I think most people exaggerate regarding not being able to play in whatever time they have. I have extremely limited time to play games, and I've been able to play a lot of SR pretty much whenever I can and want to. If it was a few hours per day I'd give you that, but when it's available it's so for quite a while.
Stupid
They design games around a singular vision, instead of looking at popular features in other games and the typical way other games are played. I like that, even if it backfires sometimes.
Let's translate:
We thought that each one mode is not enough to grasp your attention for a long time. That's why we decided to rotate modes, so that you are forced to play other and relucatantly sucked in the whole game and play for longer.
It is a valid idea, but it's also insanely backwards. In modern gaming you don't ban doing something, you encourage. Let's think that they don't rotate the modes completely, but give out 2x (cash or xp or whatever) in certain modes at certain times. That makes people move to those modes, but it's not as tyrannical and just makes better sense.
@nab1 thats how I feel too. Plus if Salmon Run was always opened, that takes more of a player base away from playing Turf Battle, Ranked, etc. Considering you need 8 players to start and no one likes waiting, anybody wanting to play online will be in those lobbies.
Going entire evenings without a mode being available that I want to play is not fun. It's not just Salmon Run, the ranked mode rotation is fairly random. You'd think it would go "Tower Control, Rainmaker, Splat Zones" or something of a similarly predictable order, but nope. Modes can repeat multiple times before one of the other modes becomes available, and the order is not set.
Splatoon 2 is a fun game, but the unpredictable times and limited modes is baffling.
Stupid.
Hopefully people will stop whining about Salmon Run and map rotation at some point. I personally honk Salmon Run would lose its "magic" if you could just play it whenever the heck you wanted. As for map rotation, like he said, people would probably just keep playing on the same maps they like every time.
"We think we know what you don’t know you want. You think you know what you want. But we know what you will want once you understand it."
Why does this remind me of the movie Dodgeball?
This interview was painful to read. Instead of giving any real reasons for their choices, he essentially insults players for wanting more and says the developers limit features simply because they can. I can deal with the map rotation (though I don't necessarily like it), but there is absolutely zero benefit to limiting Salmon Run to certain times.
@nab1 There are millions of people playing the game. I don't think there's much chance of the playerbase splitting being a big issue.
He sounds arrogant but he's right more or less. I like stage rotations and salmon run gets boring after playing a while.
The real reason behind all this is probably faster matchmaking because Splatoon player base isn't big as Overwatch.
@NinjaWaddleDee you are missing a great game
The customer is not always right.
@NinjaWaddleDee Honestly, you're just hurting yourself by not playing this game lol
@TrixieSparkle Now this is something I can agree on. I don't play ranked, but if I did, I would be really bothered by it, specially if you liked say rainmaker but all you had was splat zones.
Well I'm not Japanese, so I would prefer to play salmon run when I want to play salmon run.
Personally, I like the map/mode rotation. I boot up the game, see what's currently playing then think about what weapon/gear strategy I want to try.
Good philosophy.
Remember ford: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would've said faster horses."
They know what we don't know we want because that is their job in designing this experience. Most western people don't realise how key this is. Many people here falsely believe more choice is better. It isn't...
BULL! But I'm sure people on here will support this. Nintendo needs to let go of the hand holding and let players decide what they want.
@Yorumi They do adapt good ideas from other games, but only if they fit their overall vision. Also, they're not sinking. Switch is doing well.
@chardir Yeah, the turf war rotation is good. The rotating modes in ranked play is more annoying.
@Phin68 its not because they can't. Its because they don't want to. In a certain sense I do agree with him. If I make a game I have a vision. As a designer you design it the way you believe the consumers enjoys the most of it. As example if you go to a restaurant you don't alter the complete dish don't you? The chef made it a certain way cause he believes the ingredients should be enjoyed this way.
Its been said more times that the consumer don't know what they want. A famous example would be ford. If he asked what people wanted, they said faster horses, not cars. You can apply the same thought to game design. The consumer is a player, not a designer. Sometimes they want a lot of stuff, but it actually has a negative impact on the gameplay.
A bit of nuance though, not everybody likes this approach and I completly understand this. But yhea Nintendo is Japanese and they are kinda stuborn.
I think they already explained why they have timed map rotation which is to keep people from gravitating to the same map all the time.
It's a similar case with salmon run mainly to avoid splitting the player base and prevent people from easily abusing the system
As someone who actually has played the game, I don't see these as huge issues. Not ideal, but whatever. I partly understand not having Salmon run all the time to help ensure when you do play you find teammates. And I like the map rotation and mode. Helps keep it from being the same maps/modes being most popular.
The game has FAR bigger issues. Like how it fights you from playing with friends...
I can tell a lot of you don't understand how art kind of works. Yes, there are artists who will draw whatever you want for your money. That's a craft, a job. Those people are doing whatever they can to part you with your cash.
Nintendo treats more of their games (certainly not all) like art. As much as you complain about the mindset for this one game, do you not realize how it's been implemented a hundred times before? Mario Galaxy was weird, wondrous, and not anything like anyone of us would have been able to ask for. But Nintendo though they were onto something and let us discover it as they designed. Same goes for pretty much all the Mario games. (Did you know you wanted a fat Italian dressed up in a raccoon costume? Because I wouldn't have known how badly I wanted it until I had it in Mario 3)
It's not arrogance, it's the mindset of an artist trying to introduce you into their world and ideas. It's totally fair to say "You know what, not for me" and move on, but at the very least you should actually examine the product and try to understand it, not make a passing glance judgement.
You take this stuff for granted, and then when somebody points out they tried it on a game that had it's own box of issues, you act like this has never happened before, and that the person who said it is a jerk who doesn't know what he's doing. If that's really how you feel, you're going to be really upset when I start breaking down every other video game for you.
@hiptanaka Actually I like the ranked rotation too. It means I play all modes roughly evenly without thinking about it. If it was up to me I'd probably mainline, say, rainmaker until I was burnt out on it.
@hylian-pudding Sorry, I may have come off as a bit salty. I played and enjoyed Splatoon 1, but there isn't enough that I've seen for Splatoon 2 that makes me want to buy it.
I don't have an issue with rotation in the slightest.
What an utter load of BS
Funny that he compared Splatoon to Overwatch — I don't think Overwatch would be nearly as successful if it also implemented this flawed system
People here don't play overwatch, right?
I still miss the CTF.
@CroRock I loved Splatoon 1, but it got tedious after a while. They didn't fix the things I didn't like about the first game for the sequel, like a lack of split screen, so I won't be buying it.
Not being able to choose maps, fine, whatever...But not being able to choose modes? That's what kills it for me, Splatoon was fun at first, but it got boring VERY QUICKLY. I regret buying the game digitally. I'm stuck with it...
@gatorboi352 If I remember correctly, Minecraft wasn't on a Nintendo console until late 2015 because Notch, the creator of the game, didn't want it to be on a Nintendo console for wathever reason, but then he left mojang and months lateral it was announced for the Wii U.
@hiptanaka i think they actually did take all their ideas from other open world games. They just put the Nintendo polish on the areas they wanted to emphasize. BotW does nothing new, it just perfects one of the most popular modern day genres in doing so.
@Oscarzxn yeah I dunno if I'm buying that one.
@Nintendoforlife It would be simpler to offer all modes at all times instead of limiting modes and not giving a real reason, just saying "we know what's best for you". That in itself isn't even an excuse, and if he's not allowed to speak on it, then he should've said that and nothing else, instead of suggesting there are "lots of reasons" why they can't do it.
I get that an online team based game needs some structure, but the irony comes in when they had such a player friendly attitude with BotW, and then restrict something in another game that shouldn't be restricted, period.
@iMarkU Yeah like try going in to a fancy French restaurant and asking if you can have their signature dish but with the potatoes swapped out for chips with ketchup.
@NinjaWaddleDee That's completely fair. I do recommend getting it though, it's everything the first game was and more.
Limiting Salmon Run is understandable because it's so addictive, but the time frame to play it should be wider. People have lives, you know!
Random weapons are a joke, too. SR is hard enough without having to waste time getting used to a weapon class you hate.
Still only having 2 maps in rotation at a time for Turf War is ridiculous and should have ended with the first game. Even if they doubled the number to 4, it would still offer more variety than playing one map 90% of the time.
Makes no sense but hasn't really affected my enjoyment of the game so far. Think I'm one of the rare few that doesn't play Salmon Run all that much though.
@lookmanohands Allowing you to play with friends in Turf War would completely ruin the game for people like me who don't (and never will) do voice chat.
Being kerb stomped by an organised team would ruin it completely for me.
This attitude seems like it's at odds with the whole ethos of freedom and convenience that the Switch and BotW exemplify, doesn't it?
@gatorboi352 I've never seen another open world game with BotW's level of environmental interactivity and ease of movement (climb anywhere, paragliding constantly accessible, etc.). It's actually quite different from a number of other open world games I've played, which focus more on lore, world-building, leveling systems, character interaction, etc.
@hylian-pudding I'm sure I'll pick it up at some point, but there are just too many great games coming out now, that I'm not feeling it. I would also like a tiny discount.
Terrible design practices rear their head once again. It's a common theme with the Switch. From games, to apps, to missing features, to terrible feature implementation to straight up terrible hardware choices. 32gb in 2017 lol
I don't really care. It's fun no matter what. I kinda like the fact that it forces your to play stages that your probably wouldn't play.
I just want 4 player slit screen, and I'd be happy.
@RedMageLanakyn I think that is the real reason behind it. Nintendo still sucks badly at offering proper online play!
1. The servers still crash time to time and/or time out. This is especially bad in Super Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, where I get disconnected so often that I gave up bothering with online and stick to local only.
2. Can't offer proper online interaction/chat in their multiplayer games.
Instead of admitting they are way behind the competition when it comes to Online gaming, they just come up with all sorts of ridiculous excuses to cover it up!
Text book example of utter denial!
I am fine with the rotation but...I just hate Moray Towers. And when it is one of the two, it's picked like 85% of the time and it kills my soul little by little.
This is really weird. Splatoon 2 is intended to be a multiplayer game but I'm enjoying its single player and it's satisfying enough that way for me. On the other hand I have tried various western games that forced me to do things without any real reason. For example games with single player mode that I wanted to play offline but for "no reason" (no REAL reason other than bs anyway) forced me to stay online to play... Western developers trying to be more eastern friendly maybe?
@Yorumi
Eh, I dunno 'bout all that. Ninty's home consoles have been on a constant decline since the NES but their handheld business has done more of a small zig zag. Even when handheld successors sell less than their predecessors, they're usually still very successful and completely destroy any competition of that generation.
@TrixieSparkle If the modes rotated in the same order all the time then every day would just be the same mode at the same time.It needs to mix it up to prevent that.It can be a bit too random though as I've once seen TC,SZ,TC,SZ,The original always seemed to favour SZ more than any other mode which annoyed me as it's my least favorite mode.I haven't noticed one mode being more common than the others in the sequel though.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE That was just beautiful
"Jordan Amaro: I’m not allowed to speak on it, because I’m not the game director. What I can say, and what I think can be said, is that there are lots of reasons. You have to trust us that if you could play Salmon Run online anytime, that would result in a worse experience for you and everybody."
This is some of the most profound damage control ever made. It's on par with Reggie. Which makes sense, this is all Nintendo after all.
Anyone defending this should be ashamed of themselves. Your opinion is literally ZERO.
Salmon Run being time based is stupid.No matter how you spin it
Nintendo, I love you to pieces, but sometimes you do some reeeeeeeally questionable things...
I get bored of the map rotation/mode in about 20 minutes, but I can play Overwatch for hours because I'm not playing the same map/mode every match. The map/mode rotation thing is really annoying in Splatoon. I can't believe it's still here.
@RedMageLanakyn I'm not disagreeing with you on the fact limited map times are inefficient. What I am saying is Nintendo stating "we know how each game should be played", and then presenting two different play styles isn't ironic. It would be ironic if they stated a "certain" play style should always be used, then deviated from it.
@Ralizah like i said though, they didn't reinvent the wheel, just perfected the genre.
My gaming team think it's great that Salmon run is timed. We make more of it when it's on....
His excuse reminds me of the statement about Metroid Federation Force how it's the Metroid game we never knew we wanted (except we didn't really)
If it were the best way to do things then other developers would have followed after the first Splatoon. Feels more like stubbornness to me.
@RedMageLanakyn I think you're considerably more on rails on BotW than it appears you are.
@StuTwo Fair enough. My bigger issue originally was the need to get B- to play League play. Which in of itself is fine, but again that was the only way to play with friends. Because I'm terrible getting B- took me awhile...
@gatorboi352 My point, though, is that it's quite different from an Elder Scrolls or Witcher-esque open world game. I don't think they perfected anything, they just changed the focus and innovated in a new direction.
Granted, they also took HEAVY inspiration from other games in the genre. Skyrim had a heavy influence on it, and those towers dotting the map are pure Ubisoft.
@GamePerson19 Ya, it's one of the funniest scenes from Shrek the Third. The whole scene is even longer and more funny.
@Yorumi True, we don't know yet. But personally I think Nintendo nailed it with the Switch, and people seem enthusiastic about it 6 months after release to a much larger degree than with the Wii U.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I know and the fact that you found a way to relate it to something recent is just gold lol
That's just silly. What if the person didn't like the coffee with sugar in it?
@Yorumi
But they're not outright saying they know what's best. They're saying they know what you didn't know you wanted, which frankly is a good attitude for a creator to have imo. Yeah, you want to know what your base wants, but if you solely cater to players wants, you're going to sacrifice quality for quantity. You're going to end up serving fast food instead of three course meals.
You want to give people what they want sometimes but you have to keep challenging yourself and your base to try new things. Personally, I would've never been a fan of strategy RPGs if publishers kept making turn based or action RPGs. It takes a bold publishers to make an SRPG. It's not a genre anyone ever asked for, but it's something I never knew I wanted.
Lots of peoples here don't seem to get the whole point of the interview. Yeah, Splatoon is not a Western game. There's a reason, and it's cultural. Like it, hate it, it's all about how Japanese see what they make.
Well, they're wrong. I don't like map rotation or limiting Salmon Run, regardless if he says I do. Simple as that.
@gatorboi352 I don't think that's correct. They borrowed the idea of an open world, popularized by western developers, but most of the execution follows a different design philosophy than the typical open world game.
Everything about the game plays into the idea of exploration: You can go anywhere, if you can figure out how. There's no set order to do things, and in fact no things you have to do (except kill Ganon). There are no automatic map markers. Instead, elevation is made into a means of exploration, of observing your surroundings and carving your own path to your goal. Quests have no quest compass, also to make you observe and explore instead of following blindly. Weapons break in order to incite you to constantly look for new ones. Quick travel exists, but the game encourages you to travel "by hand" by giving you a fast and fun way to traverse the world (paragliding), which by the way also plays into finding elevation, which helps exploration. Etc.
It doesn't succeed perfectly in everything it tries, but it's an impressive execution of a focused take on the open world concept. Oh, and its abuse of collectibles is almost as bad as in western open world games. At least finding koroks is fun the first few times you encounter a new puzzle type.
If you don't want sugar in your coffee, go get it somewhere else.
@erv I think Steve Jobs can apply here too.
Imagine a world without cars, computers, or Splatoon.
I for one love their approach to map rotation.
@ImagineerNik I don't think he's saying everybody will like it, just that they're not compromising their vision, and that some people will really "get it".
Edit: In the case of Splatoon, I can't say I'm on board with all of it (please let me skip that intro), but I respect that philosophy of game design.
@Lumine The point was that I wasted money on it. lol
Wished I could trade it in or something. lol
It's Nintendo, please understand
I get why people hate it, but I personally like the rotation. It makes it more special when your favorite map / mode is available and discourages farming in Salmon Run.
@Nintendoforlife Yeah, I guess I wasn't very specific on what I found ironic exactly, my bad on that. I was more referring to his statements about Japanese culture, how things are tailored, more so than Nintendo's implementation of playstyles between games. I think that sounds right, it does in my head anyways, I'm not sure how that translates on here. I just thought his statements were contradictory from what we've seen nintendo do with games recently.
What a stupid response. Sure, as game developers, you should have a pretty good idea of how a game should be played - you are the one designing the game afterall. But when there is a ton of feedback pointing out issues, to respond with "We know what you want better than you do" is pretty dumb.
When it comes to map rotation, I'm fine with this explanation. It's nice to always have one mode everyone's playing at once.
But the Salmon Run thing is fundamentally different. At least with Ranked Battle, you can play whenever you want. Cycling modes is one thing, but why would there ever be a good reason to say " you're not allowed to play this AT ALL in ANY way, shape, or form at this time"?
@JTRSB Morray Towers is my favourite map! lol I'm glad that it rotates though. I think it helps prevent getting bored of a stage.
I like the rotating maps. Keeps things interesting and fair. Some maps are better with certain weapons, so it is nice that I don't get killed by some guy that plays the same map with the same weapon every time. I guess I just do not understand why anybody cares that much. Just play the damn game or don't.
@Yorumi I wouldn't say they are universally despised, but yes more people seem to dislike them than not.
Wut
I like Splatoon 2 and Salmon Run, but come on...
I'm ok with the maps being rotated especially now that they change every two hours instead of four. Makes me play all the maps and it keeps things fresh. Even the maps I like I can only play for a little while. There's also no maps I dislike or feel completely disappointed about like in the first game (Kelp Dome was a drag and Arowana Mall and Moray Towers weren't very fun until they added a little more to them)
@Yorumi
"I don't know how many times I have to say this cause you're all making this binary fallacy assuming the only other option from total dev control over the design of the game is no control at all. There's a huge range in the middle. Of course there are times a dev needs to have confidence and do things that they believe will work out well and trust in the product."
True, and I'm advocating for the middle ground which stems from my personal interpretation of Jordan Amaro's statement. I don't have a problem with rotating maps. Limited online Salmon run is a bit of a bummer but Salmon Run can be played locally at anytime with other players who own Splatoon 2. I do believe that sometimes ya gotta play ball with the developer. Otherwise you may never expand your taste. But yes, historically some of Nintendo's decisions have been self inflicting. Regardless, they're still here making excellent games and hardware.
Well thanks to this type of comment, glad I didn't purchase the game, and never will.
The whole Henry Ford comparison is silly. Splaatoon as a concept was the whole "consumers don't know what they want until its made" analogy. Not placing arbitrary limits on the concept once its made.
This is like if Ford said, "OK, don't make the car faster than a horse. Oh and time lock it from being used on Sunday because I know a stroll to church is better for people."
The arrogance here is ridiculous. Obviously they don't always know best, otherwise the Wii U wouldn't have bombed, and progressive loosening of other restrictions like region lock, creating Mario levels, dropping friend codes, etc wouldn't occur.
Limiting salmon run is obviously to keep the player amount up, I'm already struggling to find others in that mode as it is. Had it been available all of the time the few players I can find probably wouldn't be playing, nor would I.
I'm amazed at how much this bothers so many people. My wife and I jump in and play 30-60 min of Splatoon almost every night and it hasn't been a problem to us we just enjoy the stages as they come.
Mario Kart does this on a smaller scale. When you do Battle Mode online you can't choose which mode you're doing and when you race online you can't choose which class (50cc-200cc)
@erv "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would've said faster horses."
Except they're not giving us cars, they've made a horse that only walks on Mondays and Fridays.
" Yes, you did buy the game. But we made this game." Lawl He's got us there.
Typical Nintendo reasoning that makes no sense to anyone but them.
Usually I wouldn't like this approach as a player/user, but from the developer side I can understand it.
And in case of Splatoon 2, I actually support it even as a player. They know what they're doing. They do read users comments and posts online. They constantly improve the game. They proved that with Splatoon 1. Just let them do their thing.
I'm surprised he said anything. He's right, and I suspected it, but there's no way "let us tell you what you want" is going to be met with understanding.
But he's right, you don't really understand how a game is supposed to be played until you're in it. I may have squid-bagged the closed entrance to Grizzco many times in despair, but if I'm honest with myself, I realize I wouldn't have played it for as many hours as I did if I was able to play it whenever.
As a game designer, I can see a certain logic in wanting people to enjoy every aspect of your game, which ironically can mean preventing them from choosing it freely. If you shove everything in front of people all at once, they will soon fall into habits; gravitating towards the elements where they have the most success rather than taking the time and effort to sample each piece of the product in its own right.
There's always the question of whether the customer is truly king, or whether that title belongs to the artisan who actually created the product. If the creator focuses 100% of 'giving people what they want', they can easily end up with an uninspired, dull-as-dishwater product with zero creative vision.
Obviously, if Nintendo had 'given people what they wanted' to begin with, we never would have got a game about shape-shifting, weaponised hipster squid-kids with a passion for turf coverage; Splatoon as a concept would simply never existed.
'Visionary' products are based on the realisation of the distruptive ideas of a few people; upon bring singular, far-reaching 'vision' to life. If you were ask a million people to agree on what they can all see and base a game on that instead, you'd probably end up with something a lot less interesting.
I don't always agree with all of Nintendo's decisions, and sometimes downright bad design choices are clearly dressed under a veil of mysticism to save face. But I definitely think there's more to think about as a designer than answering the calls of people yelling, "give us what we want".
There's an arrogance as a developer in not listening to your fans. But there's a similar arrogance as a fan in assuming a developer cannot create a legitimate product that isn't exactly the one you're asking for.
For what it's worth, I actually like the timed rotations in Splatoon. Like Animal Crossing, they add a sense of 'occasion' to every play session, with this being most obvious during SplatFest. Given that a lot of the development team are shared with that series, perhaps the emphasis on time-based events makes sense.
So if you don't like it, blame this guy:
It amazes me how many of these comments are focusing on "Nintendo is doing this" and is missing the broad context of the interview that this is being said by pretty much the only Westerner that is at a high level of development at Nintendo, and that he's speaking broadly of Japanese game development (and culture) as a whole, including his prior experience with Kojima.
The take away from the interview is not "Nintendo is arrogant and tells you how you should want to do things" so much as "This is the basis of creation of anything in Japan, and customers are expected, culturally, to accept an offering as presented." Kind of like "never salt your food before tasting it at a fine restaurant, otherwise you insult the chef" which is a Western tradition of similar nature.
It's a Japanese culture point. Don't like Japan? Don't go to Japan, or engage with very Japanese designed product.
It does explain why Japanese games are less popular than Western games in the West, and why Japan fails to hit on Western game ideas. However when I look at what Western gaming is like these days I start to think the "have it your way" idea is less than it's cracked up to be either. Gameplay is about systems, and without systems that are designed to operate a specific way, it's just a toy, not a game.
My real question is why the hell doesn't the game have a proper split screen? It is not so advanced they could not do it. Or even game sharring locally.
he's def. right about people only wanting to play on one map and one map only.
and salmon run probably isn't available 24/7 because that would make matchmaking a lot slower.
What a load of BS. Very condescending and arrogant imo. Like others have pointed out, it has never been a problem for games like Mario Kart or Smash Bros but it suddenly becomes necessary to dictate when you can and can't play certain game modes and how you get to enjoy it, despite the fact that Splatoon is one of the only fps shooters to implement this nonsensical choice.
This argument feels very generational.
As a child, I loved "The A Team", a lot. But you couldn't stream it or DVR it; it wasn't On Demand. It was broadcast on Tuesdays. That's all. Tuesdays only. And that made Tuesdays awesome!
For those who don't know, there is a schedule for Salmon Run times in-game in the options. I frequently plug the times into my phones calendar and I've been known to plan around it. (The fact that it's not in the app is infuriating)
Personally, I like that those Salmon Run times are special. I like that we don't have Splatfest 24/7/365. I anticipate them. I look forward to them. If they happened constantly, they wouldn't be events.
Like the old saying goes:
"If wishes were horses, it would be Christmas every day".
Honestly, cultural mind-setting aside, what they are doing is not wrong. It's part of the game-making to take decisions that will guide the players so that they can enjoy the game in the best way possible.
However it's hard to deny they really went for a very straight and not subtle at all approch with Splatoon XD;;;
This guy is in heavy PR mode in this interview. It's like Nintendo Japan is directly feeding him lines to say. But anyway, the fact is that Splatoon is a product, or piece of art if you want, of a design team within Nintendo, to ulitimately deliver a specific experience that fulfills the team's vision, the director's vision. And in reality, that's basically ALL game devs and games.
Now, Nintendo's made some wacky decisions. In the case of rotating maps, I agree. In the case of Salmon Run, I agree with caveats.
Maps rotate in Splatoon because there may not be enough of a concurrent player base to support a splintered population. Split Splatoon's concurrent player base by mode and maps now, and players are going to be waitingtoo long to get in. On the flip side, CoD has a ton of players in comparison. Even when the player base splinters because of the map packs, because not everyone buys them, the installed player base is so huge that it doesn't matter. This is not the case for Splatoon. So, rotating maps for Splatoon it is for now. If there's ever a 5 million concurrent player base, then things will probably change.
Rotating maps are arguably better now because they change more frequently than in Splatoon 1. The map variety will fix itself over time with new map releases. Even Ranked is better now that they have separate ranks for each mode, so you don't tank your overall rank playing a mode you don't like.
Salmon Run may also be affected by the low player base, as well. So if there's 1million players queueing up for Salmon run, then I believe things may be different. I feel Salmon Run as a timed mode is sort of an event. It's like a "semi-daily" mode I can play that rewards me with more cash, ability chunks, and food tickets (which you can't get in any other mode, by the way) than playing in the other modes for only an hour to an hour and a half of play. I think this could also work as an unlimited time mode, with maybe the rewards and weapon selections resetting at midnight or something. Unless, of course there's some other deep down technical reason they can't do it. We'll see what happens later when there's more players.
@BensonUii I've had japanese players in my matches/Salmon Runs. Though not as frequently or predictably as in Splatoon 1. I'm in NA.
@Mijzelffan For the first time, the other day, I saw the matchmaker time out and we went in with 3 crew members (both Japanese)! Like 7PM EST, no less! It'll probably be better later in the year/early next year when there's more players, though.
@frogopus I agree. It's like us, here, posting comments are the vocal minority. Maybe 100, maybe less unique users altogether. But whenever a poll comes around, or new eShop game day, there are usually over a thousand votes, usually even more. Sometimes the votes have more for something than what the extremely vocal "no one wants this", or "they just lost a sale from me", or "ports" users have against. Think of the NEOGEO games on the eShop poll and people dumping on them in the comments, yet theres like 13%-15% out of hundreds of votes for the title which could easily hit 40-100 confirmed sales on release day, estimating, provided they actually go through with the purchase. It goes to show that even people here may not have a handle on what their peers want in gaming.
@Jokerwolf Actually a lot of things going on that, given the Switch's hardware, won't allow for split screen without compromises. I made a comment a while back about this which is basically, all the shots are objects (and not the easier to process hitscan method that games like CoD do), all the ink splatters in the stage have to show up the same way for all the clients (players) perspectives so that takes priority, also Nindendo doesn't want to drop the framerate below 60 frames, and splitting the screen will give a less than ideal view of the action and smaller details, meaning they will always be at a disadvantage. So, if the game didn't have to keep track of projectile positions, projectile physics, ink splatters on the floors and props, then it would be possible, But then it would be Call of Squidkids.
@Yorumi I don't know about that. I think Nintendo by nature and design is a company that streamlines and simplifies as a routine. Like Apple, in that regard, though it's hard to apply hardware/OS philosophy to game/entertainment philosophy. The result is that the design and limitations become very visible because things have been reduced to efficiency to the point you see them.
But I think Amaro's point here is that it's not just Nintendo. It's Kojima and its Capcom and it's Platinum and it's Japan in general. I realize despite not being Japanese, and not having lived in Japan, I somehow by nature have a very automatic tendency toward understanding things in a "Japanese way", for some reason (I blame growing up on video games... ). But when I look at SF0 I understand exactly what they were going for. It was an arcade cabinet type experience, driven by HOW you interact with the game rather than the game itself. That IS the game. Much like coin ops. It's not a game you spend 8 hour sessions with, or 800 hours grinding, it was designed to be a game you "waste a few quarters in a couple times a week." So forcing you to play it that way makes sense because the game itself isn't about what you see on the screen, it's about playing that control scheme.
MK8 track editor, I don't want to think of what crazy user made maps would be like. The experience is those tailored and refined tracks. Once you throw in user tracks it's a different game, a mishmash of other stuff.
I think it really is a mindset difference but people of one mindset tend not to see the other. You're looking at it and seeing "why can't I play Starfox 0 with regular controls if that's how I want to play it?" Their viewpoint is "because then you're not playing Starfox 0. This way is the way Starfox 0 is played." Similarly you don't walk into an arcade and say "I'm playing the lightgun game with a keyboard and mouse!" you can't do that, the light gun is how you play the game. If you don't want the light gun, pick a different cabinet. You see the MK8 track designer is "why can't we create our own stuff and add on?" They see it as "we've defined MK8 as these following tracks that have been designed to highlight the physics and aesthetics, that is what MK8 is."
It's two irreconcilable mindsets. Personally, I happen to have an innate understanding of these ideas for some reason that it seems most other Westerners do not. Maybe I should start learning Japanese
I just think the window dressings from other Japanese studios tend to obscure the limits placed in the game, while the minimalism of Ninendo tens to highlight them. But I imagine the same limits are present in most Japanese designs, because that's just the way Japan designs things. That includes cameras (Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Olympus), cars (Honda, Toyota especially), power tools (Makita, Hitachi), and everything else. You can see this same mentality prevail in all of them.
Never had an issue with the map rotation as limiting down the number of possible arenas to 2 allows you to choose weapon (and gear set) accordingly. Plus, it lessens the blow to my stomach whenever I see Moray Towers.
Also, I'd understand the outcry over Salmon Run's limitation if the mode wasn't open every other day for at least 24 hours.
But yeah, this interview just spurred on the discussion rather than diminish it. I do agree with what he's saying but it might have helped to elaborate on a few of his pointa.
@Yorumi You're doing exactly what you accuse me of doing by settling on a binary fallacy. You're essentially saying there is one right way to do a game and the rest are wrong. There is room for all kinds of games, but by disregarding the intent of the original creator in favor of your own ideologies, you might as well not care where the games come from at all because all games become the same at that point.
I mentioned in my last post that you can examine intent and execution in a game and disagree with it, but the attitude of everybody on this thread is one of condemnation without approach.
And you still haven't countered the fact that Nintendo has used exactly this mindset in dozens if not hundreds of other games, and nobody complains about it then; most rejoice in it. Nobody was unhappy with how close-knit Ocarina of Time was. Nobody cared that Nintendo decided the order you get everything, and how you learn to progress. It's never considered a flaw in Super Metroid that there isn't really an open-ended exploration, because there's an absolute critical path through everything that makes backtracking more of an illusion to openness and padding for the game. But it's there. It's there because Nintendo thinks they know what you want from a Nintendo game. If they didn't, they wouldn't be the Nintendo we love.
@NEStalgia User made MK8 tracks would be so broken, lol! However, if they take Mario Maker's approach with people reqired to finish a race before uploading, then maybe...
What's odd is how Salmon Run is offered every day (or at least 98%), but it's not offered the entire days.
It's just a weird design approach.
I'd really just like more variations on salmon run that rotate to ensure there's always a job open. It's my favorite part of the game and deserves to be expanded.
I understand Salmon Run, but what I don't get is there joke of a response to Voice Chat, just AT LEAST let us use the app in all game modes where we can play with a friend, and not that stupid "Online" lobby garbage
@DrRandle "There is room for all kinds of games, but by disregarding the intent of the original creator in favor of your own ideologies, you might as well not care where the games come from at all because all games become the same at that point."
^^This.
I don't like Tower Control so when Nintendo decides I have to play it, I basically can't even play the game. This is not a good way to structure things, imo.
@Yorumi
Good point. Seems some can't differentiate between arbitrary restrictions that have nothing to do with game design versus something opening up inside the actual game design that people may be hesitant to try.
Could you imagine that restaurant example in practice? "No I've had this tea before with and without sugar and I much prefer sugar." Nintendo's response to this is to brow beat you with a cup.
I mean, we've seen it before. Forced motion controls which causes a game to fail miserable (Star Fox Zero for example.) Or times where goofy restrictions may be fixed in a format years later that shows how ridiculous the restriction was in the first place (region locking, friends codes, cartridges vs CD, lack of a shoulder button etc.)
They typically lock on these restrictions foolishly early on, then in the sequel or a re-release let them go, and tout it as a 'feature.' Just wait for Splatoon 3 with selecting your own maps, no timed locked events, voice chat, etc. Then if they don't do much more than that, they'll just brag at all the improvements that could have been there in first place.
I'm kind of glad they rotate everything, it helps stop everyone from picking the one map over and over, like with rainbow road in mk8. Imagine everyone picking moray towers and using high range weapons 100% of the time in splatoon, it would totally suck and it would totally happen with the way 'sheeple' I mean 'people' follow others.
I rather enjoy the rotating levels and modes! I get what the Amaro is saying.
It's the same like when you had to wait the week to see a new episode of a show, and it was an event, but now you can watch thousands of episodes from hundreds of shows on demand, thus devaluing them all.
It also makes the game feel like less of a videogame that you can play whenever, and more like you're participating in events that happen whether or not you're there or not.
I think all of that is fine tho a little annoying! The only thing I don't like is there is no two player I was so thinking they were gonna make two player way better and I would get to play salmon run with my friends and family little did I know they were gonna fully get rid of it and make it only possible to play with people online... And none of the people I added even play with me or are online when i am, so pretty crap...
I know I want more maps and that's a fact!
He may come across a bit arrogant - I don't really think so but I can understand why some people think so - but he is 100% right about how it is in deluxe restaurants. My wife is a pro chef, and I have seen from every side how much better a meal can be if you let a top chef decide what to feed you. I have been blown away, completely mindboggled, by some dinners that were completely curated by the chef.
It's specifically true that there is importance in timing and portion control. People always think they want a larger portion and to have everything at once, but when you have small courses at planned intervals the experience is amazing. I can see that working for Splatoon as well.
I personally would like to have a few more maps, but the alternating menu is actually fun. Every time I log in it's a different exprience. I think it's part of what's keeping it all fresh.
I was hesitant at first, but like it now. Here's some of the reasons.
We live in a generation that for the most part we can have anything we want whenever we want, i.e.: streaming tv, music, games, same day delivery with online shopping, etc. As convenient as it is, I miss that "looking forward to something", for example Friday night video rentals... or whatever it may be. With Splatoon 2 I like being able to check in with the app to see the schedule and get excited to play Salmon Run, or Turf War on Humpback Pump Track at a particular time.
The other reason I like it is that because I usually play video games in shorter bursts, It is easier to memorize maps and with this set system.
@NinjaWaddleDee believe it or not i actually like it, if i dont like the maps i just wait two hours and come back, im looking at your mooray towers(or however its spelt)
@Yorumi Again, still not acknowledging 75% of the post in any way. Was it wrong for Nintendo to give you Mario Galaxy when all you thought you wanted was Mario 64? Did you know best then?
I'm not saying it always works, but it's not arrogance in the sense of a flaw. It's arrogance in the sense of "I think this is best, so I think we're going to do it." Can you honestly say you've never done that? (PS: You're doing it right now.)
But I withdraw, I'm far too old to be dealing with the nonsense of such a toxic, feral community, that only wants blood for their blood gods. I'm just here to try and enjoy games, no matter how imperfect they may be.
A popular aphorism used in American businesses is that:
"The customer is king"
Perhaps this could be amended in the Japanese case to:
"The customer is king.
But the artisan is God"
Ultimately, people are choosing to purchase and consume a Japanese product in this case, and some acceptance of that fact - however reluctant - is a necessary to making that decision.
A telling trait of a lot of commentators calling 'arrogance' is their refusal to acknowledge any benefits of a time-based event system. Having the option of anything at any time means whenever you boot up the system, you're confronted with exactly the same game. It's the same product, every time. Time-based events at least mean that you're rarely playing the exact same setup twice.
Let's talk smoothies. Smoothies are pretty hip right now. You can get a load of your five-a-day in one handy bottle, and they taste pretty good too. But given the choice of eating five different fruit and veg a day separately, or drinking the same 5-fruit-n-veg smoothie five times over, which would you get sick of sooner? You're picking between five different flavours per day, or one. Having everything all the time isn't always the most interesting option.
Having options give freedom and scope for personalisation. Having time-restrictions gives a guaranteed uniqueness to each play session, and in more objectively useful terms; a non-spintered playerbase. Having been in a few empty lobbies myself, I wouldn't want to available pool of players in any mode to grow any smaller. Players are already divided up across several rank classes, as well as between Regular, Ranked, Private, and League battles (and Salmon Run, when it's open). Allowing Ranked and League modes to be split further between the current 9 maps and 3 modes would reduce the available player pool to an average of 1/27th its current size. This would not improve the product. It might very well make it unplayable.
I've also seen people suggest a Mario Kart-style system of randomised maps and modes, but this would arguably be the worst possible scenario, as you'd have none of the freedom or customisation, whilst also being unable to pick your weapons to suit the maps and modes available. Appropriate weapon choice can be a pretty crucial factor in Splatoon, so all you'd really have done is make the game worse.
When the Switch player base grows to sizeable level, and Splatoon 2 is awash with players, then you can convincingly argue in favour of having maps and modes choosable at any time (although the growing number of maps might make this a problem). For the time being however, it would likely lead to frustratingly many encounters with lobbies that took forever to assemble, or didn't manage at all.
Magical, mystical Eastern/Western philosophical and cultural differences aside (as well as weird smoothie analogies), this would lead to an objectively worse experience and a potentially unplayable online videogame.
Be careful what you wish for. Or just be happy that the game developers are happy to override your wishes in favour of creating a videogame that actually works.
I don't mind this approach for the other modes, but for Salmon Run it's just nonsense.
I like the map rotation, but I wish they would work a bit on the rotation every day I play it's always the same 2 maps and the ones I'd like to see or play seem to be available overnight.
@Maxz About the smoothies, what Nintendo is doing is forcing you to have certain fruits and vegetables at certain times per day, instead of letting you create your own flavour. That certainly can have its advantages but whether that prevents it from being boring or.not is opinion based.
I would have bought the game day one had salmon run been just a normal mode that's always available. I don't know if I'll get it now.
@Paddle1 The smoothie analogy certainly isn't perfect. I mean, I like it, but I think there are other cases where it's a lot more relavant.
What's more convincing as an argument is the fragmentation of the playerbase. I sat down with a friend late last night to show him how the game worked. I booted up Turf War, and we sat in the lobby for several minutes and watched it get half full before being kicked out due to lack of available players. This was the game's flagship mode, not some obscure little online extra, and yet we still couldn't get a game going. I don't know how many players were online at that point, but between League, Ranked, Regular, Private, and Salmon Run modes, there simply weren't enough players to in our mode to get a game going. We managed to get four players without the option to pick maps. With the option, at least 5 of those map lobbies would have literally been empty.
Options can be great, but the more you provide, the higher the chances some of them are going to be underused, and in an online game that depends on getting 8 players of the same skill level together (in Ranked at least), that can mean those options become pretty much inaccessible. Meaning they're not really options at all.
So yeah, it's not really like a smoothie. It's more like a buffet, but one where you need to find 7 other people - all within a similar age range of you - to agree on eating the same meal before any of you can eat anything. Without a sufficiently high number of other customers, than can mean a lot of people don't get fed.
Imagine if they put the battle mode in Mario KArt 8 at certain times of the week, the riots would commence, how is the Salmon Run in Splatoon 2 any different? It's annoying, i love the Salmon Run alot, since it's co-op instead of vs. But its also in hours where i dont have time to play, im lucky to get an hour or two in on the weekends. I'd play this game waaaay more if the Salmon Run was available to me more.
Wow, the egos of the commenters are as big as their mommas!
I remember when playing PvZ: Garden Warfare 2 (PC) I would have a hard time finding players for certain Players vs AI modes. Unless they had a mission to check off, it would be troublesome to find 3 other players for a stage/difficulty. I guess that's why I'm not fussy on the time limit for salmon run, especially since they have it open for 24 hrs with a 6 hour break in between (more or less) with one theme at a time.
The full interview is worth the reading. It is insightful on the differences between the western and Eastern cultures. I had a friend who recently came back from a trip to Japan. There was a lot of things he told and show me with the culture and it seems very similar to Amaro's experience.
This comment section is a bit crazy. Amaro really is just stating what Japanese culture is like more than anything directly related to Nintendo. For Western audiences, it definitely can come across as some sort of excuse or arrogance maybe but they created the game and there is a sense that trust comes from both sides of a relationship. It's not that the customer blindly follows the creator but there is a balance of meeting the customers needs with meeting the artistic design in this case. It is much more arrogant for someone in the comments section to demand how a game should be created to meet their own needs which they assume is the needs of everyone else around them than a game designer doing it since they have dedicated their life to the art. Eastern and Western philosophies both hold merit and there really isn't a right and wrong way to do things.
@Evenmoresteven Not true. If you mean America, anyways. Maybe the whole world vs Japan, sure...
I would be willing to forgive all these limitations if Splatoon would just let me play local multiplayer with one game and console.
I don't mind it and never minded it in the first game either. Helps me get to know the stages better and stops people from spam choosing the same stages over and over. I look at Salmon Run as a cool in game job, of course it doesn't show up all the time. And if it did it would cause people to play less of the main game mode of Turf War which could cause other problem like matchups. Plus the rewards from Salmon Run are used for Turf War so it just is a useful cycle.
People are getting worked up over the whole they let us play it how they think we should thing. Technically every game you play does this as they aren't asking us what we want from another game in so and so series, developers just make the thing. If you want to complain about that then why not moan about each system not being the equivalent of a development kit or games all not having debug modes so you can play them exactly how you want. Get over it, they are right in my eyes.
Wow, that was awful... I can't believe an employee with Nintendo was allowed to freely speak so arrogantly and make pretentious comments about fans in an interview. Honestly, I feel like the real reason for map rotation and limited times for Salmon run is quite simple. They want to gate off content in order to keep players coming back, because the Switch doesn't have a large install base and they're worried about game modes thinning out. It's also proven to work, as clearly people still buy the game anyways. For me, this is definitely a situation where I put my vote behind my wallet. As cool and "fresh" as Splatoon seems, I refuse to support such restrictions on a game.
@NEStalgia I wouldn't say this guy is a qualified authority on Japanese culture, and quite frankly that reasoning doesn't add up based on the multitude of other Japanese games offering a plethora of options and customization, even retro games, which clearly contradicts that idea.
Of course, this comparison by Amaro doesn't make sense to begin with either, as claiming that Japanese culture is to have products tailored to certain qualities doesn't hold up to Splatoon's restrictions on when you can enjoy content. A more sensible comparison would be how some restaurants only offer dishes at certain times, which coincidentally, many restaurant chains have been eliminating such practices in recent years. Turns out that denying your customers the food they want doesn't make you money.
Very interesting read. I do like the insight of the culture in video games. It allows me to understand them. My opinion on the matter is that it's fine. Its no differnt than streaming music. You might find a song/level you'll enjoy that you otherwise won't try.
Also, for songs/levels you dont agree with, you can use this as an opportunity to train yourself and fight whag makes you bad at that level.
Sometimes by battling yourself, you can better battle others in multiplayer games.
@masterLEON Ya but for salmon run dropping to 30 fps and doing split would have been fine and doable. Don't need 60 fps in salmon run lol.
@Jokerwolf Any action game that requires quick reflexes and skill can only benefit from a higher framerate. From classic arcade games and classic consoles, PC games of course, even Salmon Run. High frame rates increase input responsiveness and visual feedback, it's a fact. Honestly, I think Salmon Run's right up there with Ranked Battle in terms of how much is going on, especially once you get into Profreshional and 200% pay grade (the maximum difficulty). But, I was curious about what it would look like. So I made a video:
Compare this with the unedited original clip (starts at 6:42, plays in 60FPS in Chrome or the YouTube app)
I feel 30FPS is still playable, but only just. I don't like not being able to see the sides of the screen. I also think motion controls will be somewhat impacted because I'm not getting visual feedback fast enough. And, when reviewing the clips in 30FPS for a while, I eventually started feeling dizzy and had to lie down. Which is weird because I can normally play Splatoon for hours on end and suffer no ill effects. I believe it was a combination of low frame rate and narrow FOV, or field of vision (thanks to TotalBiscuit for making me aware of this) that was the cause. There is a small but significant population of gamers out there that are affected like this.
In the end, it was a conscious game design decision by Nintnendo to make Salmon Run 60FPS and not allow for split screen play, just like the standard game modes. Who knows? They probably thought about it at some point, maybe even got it to a working state and tested. Maybe they ran into the same issues I had? But whatever reason, ultimately 60FPS and one player per system is what we got.
And let's not forget Switch games have to be designed to work for a 6 inch diagonal screen. I watched my edited clip in a resized window to match the Switch's screen and yeah, the view is pretty small.
@masterLEON I am just saying for local 2 player it would be a cool addition. It would be sweet for when I have a buddy over to do couch co-op.
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