The Wall Street Journal has given more weight to existing rumours that the Nintendo NX will shun optical media in favour of flash-based game cards.
Citing sources "familiar with the matter", the WSJ claims that Nintendo has made the decision based on "renewed attention" in the marketplace for chip-based storage options. Semiconductor firms such as Samsung and Toshiba are currently competing to create high capacity flash memory at lower costs, paving the way for relatively small cards which can hold an incredible amount of data.
The WSJ also claims that Nintendo is keen to use 'cartridges' ('game card' is a more accurate desciption) because of its traditionally younger audience - game cards are less likely to get damaged than discs. Cartridges also boast other positives, such as fast load times and robust piracy protection. Speaking to the WSJ, former Sony employee Atsushi Osanai pointed out that such cartridges are "no doubt today's best format to physically distribute games."
While the news that high-capacity discs are being ignored might sound like a shock, when taken in context with wider reports surrounding NX, the move makes perfect sense. Nintendo's new console will apparently be a hybrid system which connects to your TV but is also used as a handheld, and therefore small, robust game cards - like those used on the 3DS - are clearly the best option. Given the hinted portable nature of the NX, installing an optical drive would result in a larger unit overall, and carrying delicate discs around with you would be a pain. Sony used optical discs with its PSP console, but for its successor - the PS Vita - opted to utilize flash-based cards. With that in mind, such reports are not all that surprising.
The WSJ has approached Nintendo for comment, but the company declined to address the report. It has remained silent on the NX for quite some time, although many believe that will end this month - perhaps before the Tokyo Game Show, which begins on September 15th.
I, for one, welcome our new cartridge overlords.
I would be mad at another NX rumor, but that subtitle was just too clever to pass up. Nice job.
If the hybrid rumours are true, then obviously this was always going to be the case.
Still hoping everything we've heard is wrong though. It sounds like such a calamity.
Had hoped the Direct yesterday would've at least announced the NX Direct date.
NX to run 3DS games then.
If true of course,everything is clearly speculation.
Yay! More physical to add to my shelves. Love my tangible games. Down with dlc only.
So... in light of the surprising amount of attention given to 3DS could there be some sort of backwards compatibility? Like if you have the NX hooked to the TV you can use the two screens? If it's a cartridge/card slot you at least have some options.
Seems unlikely and even unwieldy but possible
I like cartridges, as their highly practical. They're also quite fast and durable. I wouldn't mind a home console that used cartridges (or rather, "cards").
Catridges > discs. Things fare well for the NX.
Less prone totake damage, faster loading times, smaller. Right move Imho
I guess this could mean no backward compatibility with Wii U, since there's no disc drive. Unless the home base unit of the NX has one. Or NX can run downloaded Wii U games.
I don't really care, I'm going to download everything anyway.
My town doesn't have proper video game stores
Calling it now.
Nintendo in 2017: "Here is the NX! It uses cartridges instead of discs."
Gaming community: "This sucks. Why Nintendo? Nintendoomed!! Go 3rd party!"
Other gaming companies in the future: "Here is our new console! It uses cartridges instead of discs."
Gaming Community: "This is genius! I love the faster load times! I love how this company revolutionized gaming!"
If NX is primarily a portable, using cartridges is almost a no-brainer. I've seen so many PSP UMDs smashed to pieces in the past few years, it just doesn't make sense to use discs for a portable system.
I can imagine Official NX box size will be somewhat or exactly as big as 3DS box. If they come in different color instead White (As long not Black again like NDS), it will be great. I prefer Baby Blue color so it will looks like 'Baby' Wii U version. :3
@Bruh That seems about right. Old school cartridges (with capacity measured in kilobytes) were a hack for software distribution when many things were solid state. Optical media (with capacity measured in megabytes and gigabytes) was a hack for distribution of more data. Now that flash capacity is greater, we don't need discs anymore.
I'm going to download everything anyway, I dislike having all those tiny "game cards" all over the place.
They may be able to hold more data than blu-ray.
They may be faster loading than blu-ray.
But the most important thing for Nintendo is they don't have to pay as much as they would have to for blu-ray.
When you're playing Nintendo you're not playing the same game as the competition, because Nintendo isn't playing the same game as the competition.
@Bruh Exactly. +1
@Bruh You are absolutely right. cough*motioncontrols*cough
I for one welcome back cartridges, after not being able to buy a game and quickly pop it in and play a bit before I have to go adult, because of mandatory installs, this is welcomed. And for those who feel that a cartridge can't hold as much as a CD you might want to go pay a visit to an electronics store and take a look at some micro SD cards and just see how big they are up to now
I hope the cartridge makes a comeback! I go back to physical copies of games!!
@MrGawain Well, with Wii U discs, they already have a Blu-ray style medium. Nintendo's typically avoided having to pay licensing fees by producing their own disc format.
Funny how people think that it would only make sense for NX to use cartridges if it's a portable, while that is actually totally irrelevant. Cartridges are better in both handheld and console, for the obvious reasons already cited in the article.
I welcome it...this could also mean that it would play 3DS and DS games too (which I would be happy with too). As for the cartridges being more kid-friendly...my kids always lose 3DS cartridges due to them being small, but I do agree with the other reasons...faster loading times are a nice addition, but it comes to mind on game saves and updates and how much space those two will take up on the console's HDD itself...especially if nintendo doesn't put a large HDD inside. Hopefully the HDD is detachable and you can add a bigger one, but until the NX is finally revealed (and I really hope they keep the name NX...it's pretty decent), I'll keep any other comments to myself.
It's also important pointing out that a cartridge will probably consumes LESS ENERGY that a optical disc reader which is something very important for a portable system (if the rumor are to be believed off course).
I still think however that we don't have the full picture yet. Many times, nintendo said that the NX is not only a console but a platform (I know the difference is thin but...). Iwate himslef said that it would have many form factor. It's thus not impossible to see both, disc for a home console only, cartridge for a portable version of the same game, but that would be a very VERY bad move. My point is only that still have no ideas what is the NX beyond some rumor and that the NX might be something much bigger than we think.
This might get buried in the comments section but recently I re-watched Nintendo's 2012 E3 presentation. When they discussed the Wii U they talked about wanting to free up the TV (Off-TV Play). They said it couldn't be dependent to just the TV because for the past 30 years they always were. So they wanted the Wii U to have its own screen to break away from being tied to only one screen. So I can see the NX being a portable console that isn't dependent on a TV screen. So the carts make sense if you have a hybrid system. We will know more in a few weeks time.
@Bruh I think no matter what, every non-nintendo gamer wants to see them go 3rd party...just so they can play the games on the systems of their choice. Every time nintendo makes a new console, the rumors fly and the hate begins, yet...nintendo's IP's always sell, the market is always there for their IP's and nintendo makes millions of money off of them...almost like the haters are jealous that nintendo has been around longer than the competition and they're still around today! Those haters are also the same ones that end up playing Smash bros and Mario Kart for hours. I'm glad that I've always been a nintendo fanboy...even though I currently do not own a Wii U anymore, but I'm looking forward to the NX!
yeah, why not? the biggest flash storage cards available commercially as of now is 512GB. 1-2TB flash storage has already been invented though not yet in mass production, maybe sometime next year...
a blu-ray only holds 25GB so it makes so much more sense to use flash cards.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Are you implying that cartridges are cheesy?
Miles better than discs. Also suggests this is more a 3DS generational evolution with a home version/add-on to follow later as opposed to this being a replacement for 3DS and Wii u
Yes, but it's well documented that Wii U discs don't have anywhere near the memory capacity as a blu-ray does. By moving to cartridge they can increase storage without either switching to blu-ray, or creating a copy of blu-ray which may incur legal issues.
Was thinking after yesterday's direct. That the NX might be backwards compatible with 3ds games. (Turn an ipad/Wii U tablet on its side and remove the 3ds hinge and you get enough screen real estate) it would explain all the Wii U to 3ds ports. And allow people to player mario maker and smash day1 on the NX
@MrGawain Wii U discs have the same amount of space as single-layer Blu-ray discs (25GB), just as early PS3 discs did. IIRC, PS4 games only use dual-layer discs (50GB) with the rest downloading from the internet.
Will the cartridges be for both systems tho or just the NX handheld.
holy crap. wii u discs are the last nintendo discs ever.
Thats good news!
Never liked discs - they're basically the reason I never made the jump from SNES to Playstation. Those loading times were atrocious.
So yeah, I'm definitely happy about this, especially given how powerful carts can be these days. This has to be the future of physical distribution.
I really hope they include a conversion feature for the NX, include some blank cartridges and a disc slot so we can turn our Wii u games into cartridge form, it would be easy seeing how its just,in computer terms: Cut and Paste. To prevent piracy and stuff like that it could wipe the disc entirely without telling the player until the transfer is finished and then eject it saying: "
Disc Conversion Complete, Disc Wiped" and then we'll have a blank disc that's no longer usable.
THE RUMORS OF A SMASH4 AND MARIO MAKER PORT WERE ACTUALLY NEWS OF 3DS BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY!
@johnodaz I think they will use discs for NX console.
I don't think we will see NX console till late 2018 at the earliest though
This is my favourite "First comment in NL comment section" ever.
They really should reveal the system this month.
At least the Wall Street Journal is a reputable news source. This is the first reliable rumor posted on a Nintendo website in months.
I hope this is true. I hate discs. They aren't as durable, there is more loading, and they are damaged by fingerprints.
Cartridges every day of the week and twice on Saturday.
@SamuFinland Your town doesn't have proper game stores? Does that mean your town only has Gamestops? If so, I'm sorry man. That's just a hard knox life you are living. Hopefully one day you can escape to something better.
@KickButt_Gaming That would be completely impossible. Commercial game discs are single-write discs, so they can't be wiped or made unreadable in a disc drive, unless you scratch them or destroy the data with some sort of corrosive light beam. The closest example to that is letting them lie in the sun face down, which will indeed destroy them, but that will obviously take too long, and there is no way to put some sort of technology that can duplicate that effect in a disc drive.
The solution for discs you already own could be that because they are now tied to your NNID on your Wii U, they would as such be registered online, and with that info, they could offer a service that uses blank, single-write cartridges to download the game for you at a reduced cost. But that's not going to be free, if they're even going to offer any such service in the first place...
Would probably be better to first download to the hard disc or internal storage media of NX, and it could then be transferred to the cartridge to prevent errors because of loss of connection or lag that could occur when downloading straight to cartridge.
But I think they would sooner just offer download only Wii U games, or conversions on cartridge.
@XCWarrior This cartridge rumor has returned so many times now, and indeed from a couple of reputable sources as well, so I think that by now, it's pretty safe to say that this is going to happen. And like you, I'm all for it...
@ThanosReXXX Haha very good.
@aaronsullivan Was giving this a lot of thought this morning before I read the article. Yesterday's ND had a LOT of new 3DS games, I thought it would just be AC, DQ and Pokemon, some releasing in 2017 after the NX (unless it's delayed). Why not make NX bc w/ 3DS games? 3DS cards added 1 shoulder to DS cards, just let NX cards add the other shoulder, use the same slot technology. And if NX is running on DMP M3400 (not saying it is) bc would practically be built in.
Also, as you just said, 2 screens w/ TV out. Was also thinking about that too. Maybe it's a wireless dock? Well it can be wired to the tv, and it will hold the handheld for charging, but why not put the Wii U game pad chip in it. So, wireless tv and a charging dock in one. Has anybody said different?
So, it's half Wii U, half 3DS. All new.
Oh, and not sure you were in on this, but I hate the idea of a 3DS card on a set top box, getting cards in and out would suck, console would be sliding all over the place, kids would be losing cards under the tv and carpet and ottomans, so dovking handheld is better for that.
@Mogster Been awhile since I've read a Slashdot comment on here, very refreshing.
Yeah basically. The 3ds port can be patched to kingdom come, so I am not too bothered about the lack of certain features at the moment. Think they would be foolish not to use the cartridge slot for that purpose.
i'm ok with this, modern day cards can hold LOADS of data so i don't think the games will suffer
@ThanosReXXX To spoil the fun early, read: cart-ridges. Ba-DUN..! haha
@aaronsullivan Oh, I forgot the obvious question as to why NX isn't 4DS would be - why buy a NX just to play 3DS games? I still think the dock matters, especially if it's wireless tv out. NX Home* will be $299, New 3DSXL will be the cheaper alternative. NX Away* for the holidays to replace 3DS, $199.
Home and Away are the same console, Home is bundled with dock and Pro, Away is just the handheld. But it's why they would need 2 marketing positions.
Or NX is a car, or watch, or VR headset. I'm just following the crumbs to the witches oven.
@ThanosReXXX I know the rumor has been around for awhile, but when you see it on NeoGaf or Reddit or any of those other cesspool troll forum sites, it's people taking 50/50 guesses, since there are 2 options for how a retail game would be.
The Wall Street Journal actually does real investigating and reporting, that's why to me it holds more weight.
Another NX rumour, another slow news day.
I hope this is true. Discs suck
For me this was always a given, as every one of Nintendo's handhelds have used cartridges before so why would this one be any different? No surprise here.
@mjharper The NX will probably get WiiU virtual console support eventually
@ThanosReXXX "And like you, I'm all for it..."
Well that's no fun, how are we going to have a wall-of-text discussion if we are all in agreement?
I thought one of the paragraphs was kind of funny in light of your recent convo with Damo about youtubers. The other 4 paragraphs read like a typical "reporting" article, with the last being the typical "what do you think?". But to me one paragraph almost read first person, should have been in parentheses musings. Like a youtuber voicing his opinion to promote his ideology. Can you guess which paragraph? Guess I'm in a back to school mindset.
Ok, important stuff - which you probably already covered but I'm 200 emails behind - is DMP M3400 Wii U power? B/c I think that's all Nintendo really wants. I don't think too many people realized yesterday - except @Captain_Gonru - that if Ninty can put SMM and Yoshi on 3DS, alongside MK, SSB, NSMB, SM3DL/W, HW/L and XC, Ninty could probably put Zelda Wild on 3DS (OK New 3DS) if they wanted to, and most importantly CALL IT THE SAME EXPERIENCE. They never said better graphics, better anything on NX, just slightly different. And I don't think they need too much power to do that. Maybe they can't get Zelda Wild on 3DS, but a portable Wii U, why not?
But i still like to see tiny cartridge arranged nicely inside the small box. It looks like an artistic masterpiece. Sometimes it's not about simplicity and functions (download methods), it's about beauty and art.
My town doesn't have ANY video game stores.
The only two stores that even sell video games have like 2 Wii U games and 3 3DS games
@Anti-Matter that's nice for you. I have other objects d'art and don't much like the plastic video game aesthetic. Cartridges in boxes for you, downloads for me.
@Slaz I think you are missing the fact that I already solved that puzzle and added a bit of my own to it. Luckily, @SLIGEACH_EIRE did get that...
@XCWarrior I know, but there are more reputable sources, and some months ago there were mentions of cartridges as a medium in Activision and Ubisoft pre-release game info. (Call of Duty and For Honor, to be exact)
Well, my town also doesn't have much Nintendo games. My town is Indonesia and almost every Indonesian people don't like Nintendo or even heard the name because Playstation everywhere (Except me and some Indonesian Nintendo gamers). There is NO WAY to order original NDS games back 10 years ago because almost everybody play illegal cartridge with NDS ROMs inside, nobody care about original games. But now, we can order the original games from Ebay or Amazon or any kind of online shop. Luckily, i met with someone that can help me to order my games so i just give the link about my games that i want to buy, my friend will processing the purchase and i just only pay the fee after that. Simple and i have to wait patiently because it will be very slow to wait an import goods (Notice, Indonesia still using traditional method to checking the import stuffs). So, if you have a friend that can buy online, befriend with them and you can ask for help about your gaming experience wishes. Good luck, happy hunting for a friend that can make your wish come true.
@rjejr The M3400 is over Xbox One power, and near PS4, so smack dab in the middle of those two. I would say that is well over Wii U power.
I'm going to find some lost thread to give you some info, or maybe I will give you my contact details through the @rjejr "post & delete" method, because some interesting stuff has been dug up by yours truly...
Safe to say we can scratch some stuff off the list and that I will be laughing all the way to the bank...
Will get back to you on that in some inconvenient hour when no one is watching...
Yes yes YES!
You and your smart ass titles
Flash cards are infinitely better than discs. I'd still prefer real cartridges, but I know those are never ever coming back, so I'll take the cards with a grin. It's still WAY better than discs, even if it's not everything my nostalgia-fueled collector habit wants.
I'll also echo the comments about how discussions of portable or not are pointless here. Flash cards are infinitely better than discs for home consoles, too. Lower power consumption, more durable, more space efficient, harder to pirate, greater capacity, less heat production....there is literally no advantage to using optical media aside from maybe production cost (and I'm not sure about that one).
I mean, except for "multimedia" use, but if I wanted that, I'd use a Blu-ray player or a smart TV (or my computer). If I'm going to buy a game console, then I want it optimized for GAMES.
@MarcelRguez my thoughts exactly!
@Andrzej777 no installing!
@ElkinFencer10 I like my game systems to be able to play Netflix too though.
@ElkinFencer10 You could also argue (looking at market statistics) that Blu-Ray is losing ground to Video-on-Demand. Streaming HD vids (and in even higher resolution than currently available on physical media) has become extremely prevalent, and the NX could sneak that functionality in no problem~
@LegendOfPokemon was it? Where?
@Bruh Yep it's happening. We stay loyal to the true innovators. NINTENDO FOREVER!!!
@3MonthBeef I'm not at all familiar with the matter but I'll post threads at Neogaf and Reddit echoing that if it'll make it look more convincing
Good thing it's called NETflix since the Internet doesn't use optical media. Does Netflix even do discs anymore? I literally have never met anyone who's used Netflix DVD mailing service in the last five years.
@3MonthBeef Well, mixing AR with VR will be as close to 4D as it's going to get, so you may be on to something there...
Just as long as it's region-free... Cartridges are good and download is important for not-well-established markets, so that's great, but please be region-free.
Cool (If true)!
Nintendo's confirmation will be more appealing.
@3MonthBeef Hey man, love me some Bacardi, so by all means: go ahead and spread the rum...
@Andrzej777 Also discs like being totally flat or totally on its side, with zero changes during operation, so with portability either you have silly PSP discs or cards that would fit more data and now be cheaper.
@3MonthBeef Well, yeah, I won't throw a tantrum if it's region-locked, but while we're in the realms of rumourland, thought I'd voice a wish. The dev kits are supposed to be region-free, but I don't think that necessarily has any bearing on the finished consumer product.
@ElkinFencer10 you forgot that cards are noiseless while discs are definitely not.
@Sakura dev kits are always region-free, that "functionality" is added afterwards, so you're right.
I have no problem with that, loading screens drive me crazy.
Not just only Free Region, but also can read specific region if NX backward compatible with 3DS. It will be a dream come true for gamers who want to experience with some Japanese 3DS games in USA NX.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, I wondered about that when I read the rumour somewhere, maybe MyNintendoNews. It would be daft to not give devs region-free devices. It will be interesting to see what Nintendo do. I'd like more regional parity, especially with release dates, but if they don't go that route, it's not like it's a major sticking point. My Nintendo is certainly operating on a regional basis, so I'm guessing they'll keep it.
@Anti-Matter Good point, I never thought of that.
That would be nice indeed, considering I had to send both my Wii and my PS3 in twice due to a defective optical drive.
AR+VR=merged reality, Intel's Project Alloy, sold to partners in the 2nd half of 2017, so Nintendo can beat them to the punch.
Good stuff starts around minute 57, making fun of Occulus and PSVR around minute 48.
@kobashi100 I think the NX handheld is releasing in Japan first and the rest will get the NX home console first then vice versa.
It just adds to the speculation it's a portable handheld that can connect to the telle. At this rate when it is unveiled everyone will be like 'O yeah we knew that'.
Underpowered, uses cartridges, can be took walkabouts and has little clips where your Wii remote can be hung at each side of it.
I'll probably que all night for it😆
I'm okay with it! And I'm stupid!
Whatever the NX is, I'm looking forward to it. But right now I'm mostly looking forward to knowing what it actually is.
@rjejr I always wonder what the heck is creating such a backlog for you. Family life? I just can't imagine having more than 30 comments unanswered, unless I'm really sick or on holidays. Other than that, an hour a day should suffice...
Good god Nintendo, SHOW THE NX ALREADY! I just want these rumors to either be confirmed or put to rest once and for all. If this 'info' came from the WSJ, I'm having a hard time believing it as they are owned by the same guy that also owns Fox, the news station that went to court for the right to lie.
@rjejr @3MonthBeef "AR+VR=merged reality, Intel's Project Alloy, sold to partners in the 2nd half of 2017, so Nintendo can beat them to the punch. "
They can if they implement Interactive Dynamic Video. It's all the rage in the tech community, along with Ultrahaptics, which, when all combined, could give you an experience similar to this...
Well, it might not be backwards compatible with Wii U discs (Downloads are another matter) but at least it could be 3DS backwards compatible.
Would weight in more as the 3DS will get a lotta new games over the next several months too....
Thank you, I can order stuff online but I prefer to download my games, I don't need to wait for them to arrive and I never lose my games because they are inside the console.
@ThanosReXXX Half NL comments, half spam.
And it takes me about 10 minutes to type each comment, and another 5 minutes to correct it. And I post a lot. Way too much in fact.
@rjejr @3MonthBeef And combine all the previously mentioned tech with QoL and in a few years, we're literally gonna see Nintendo everywhere...
And as far as gamification of information (infotainment 2.0) is concerned, I think that the people in Dubai are already getting a decent taste of that...
@rjejr I'm also still wondering whatever happened to the Sharp Free Form displays. I thought their 2015 presentation at CEATEC in Japan was really cool and interesting:
I'm not the most tech savvy person so can someone explain the advantages of this? I mean because I thought consoles switched to disks because of greater capacity, but has that changed with development of better tech?
@sp_initiate-001 I think they're enjoying keeping everyone on pins and needles, heh.
They can only do it for so long until people start coming for them with torches and pitchforks.
Well as long as it isn't like the old days of cartridges where size limitations could cause problems with 3rd party devs (and in this day and age it shouldn't be), then I don't mind having cartridges at all, was raised on cartridges, cassettes and floppy disks any way. 3ds and vita already use them so it makes no difference to me, but like the 3ds and vita has proven it won't protect against piracy
@ThanosReXXX The problem with those technologies is that they are far from being useful, they need a lot of development, even VR needs a lot of polish still, the price is also a problem, they aren’t cheap.
The problem I see with merged reality is that it still puts you in danger, you can still hit things that are not within the sight of the camera, it also can’t detect height levels, that’s a big issue. We need something like Sword Art Online VR, put your headset and sit somewhere else or just lie in your bed, that’s the only way I see VR working.
AR and Hololens are actually far more useful, is uses the room you’re in to play, it just puts some AR stuff here and there, you don’t necessarily need a dedicated space nor it puts you in danger since it is using the space you’re in, the problem is, you’re confined to a single room, if you get out of it, Hololens needs to recalculate EVERYTHING, destroying your experience.
This technologies look promising and amazing, but they need a lot of work still, the VR and AR race is putting things that aren’t ready to be in the market for us, the consumers, to test. Nintendo learnt a lot from Virtual Boy and 3DS, they’re not going to use experimental technology in one of their systems.
New technologies aside, Will using cartridges for games mean that they can put DLC right in the card instead of the console?
@rjejr The handheld is one unit with a raiseable second screen at the touch of a button. That way the top screen won't get broken in storage or you pocket. Hey, I can dream again can't I?!
@Stryker89 I don't know about smashed UMDs (Those things are quite solid), but the noise my PSP phat makes when it's running a game off UMD is pretty over-the-top, and seektimes could get steep too, so i'm happy with the concept of flash-based cartridges, now if only Nintendo would announce something officially...
@Giygas_95 In the old days (70's - 90's) cartridges ranged from 8 kilobyte (Atari 2600) to 64MB (N64) maximum and was relatively slow, and with the growth in size, memory also got more and more expensive. Having to manufacture large quantities of cartridges containing a tiny board with chipsets on it (sometimes with special chips for specific games, like the SNES Mode 7 chip) certainly didn't make it any cheaper either...
When the CD arrived, data capacity was all of a sudden bumped up to 700MB, which meant that there was no more need for data compression of audio and large cut scenes were now possible because of all the extra space. And CD's were also dirt cheap to manufacture, so two MASSIVE advantages over classic cartridges. But most CD's were filled with unnecessary data in the earlier stages of CD based consoles:
It is pretty well documented that the earlier PSX games would have easily fit on a N64 cartridge if they removed the cut scenes and compressed the audio. Only later on we got games spanning multiple discs and then we moved to DVD and later on Blu-rays.
In the mean time, solid state memory (flash ROM, SD cards, USB sticks) became more common and therefore the prices gradually went down and even large amounts became relatively cheap in the space of only a couple of years. Right now a similar thing is happening with what is now considered to be large memory capacity. That is once again getting cheaper, making it more interesting again to switch back to that medium for game storage instead of Blu-rays.
By the time the NX will be released, it will cost next to nothing to manufacture 64GB cartridges that are the size of 3DS cartridges, (which are now 8GB maximum by the way) so the NX whatever it will be, can easily be future proof as far as game size is concerned, seeing as the current gen games don't surpass that 64GB mark yet, if you compare the basic game installs without DLC and so on.
Current gen solid state memory is also many times faster than Blu-ray drives and more reliable than the classic cartridges, and most modern solid state memory also has much faster read/write speeds compared to disc based media, so:
Faster loading times or even none, depending on data size
More reliable data storage (can't be scratched like discs)
More durable (no moving parts)
No moving parts means silent drive
Cartridge slots are MUCH cheaper than disc drives
Cartridges are easier to take with you than a bunch of Blu-ray discs
Hope that clears things up for you...
dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum FLASH! Ah-ahhhhhh!
@ThanosReXXX I think he was implying that they are delicious.
@Laki2 I was just joking around a bit with the talk about mixing AR and VR, although I do find all that stuff interesting.
As far as your question is concerned: I think they will either make cartridges with complete bundles on them, so game + DLC, or the handheld and/or console will have internal memory to save DLC on. Handheld DLC could also be downloaded to an SD card, much like on the 3DS, and a home console would probably also have the option to connect an external hard drive, like the Wii U also offers now.
@ThanosReXXX It definitely does! Thanks for writing that detailed answer!
Wouldn't that keep NX from getting pretty much all 3rd party games? Sure, it could get the portable games, but what about the big screen ones that are disc-based?
I like that Nintendo is always trying something new, but nowadays you can't do everything by yourself. PS4 and Xbox One aimed to make it easier to port games from different platforms; I really believe Nintendo should do the same. We need 3rd party. At least I do...
@Giygas_95 You forgot to hit "reply"...
But you're welcome.
@kobashi100 haha that's crazy talk.
@RenanKJ That's a non-issue. Cartridges are of no influence to ease of porting or whatever. Like a disc, it's only an information carrier, and in what language that is, is irrelevant. Modern day cartridges are up to 5 times faster than the fastest disc drive, and they are far more reliable too.
At the end of comment #110 I listed all the advantages.
I checked the latest data and current max read speeds for Blu-ray drives are 16x, pushing a maximum of 72MB of data per second on single layer or double layer discs. And the current gen consoles all have drives that are capped at 6x speed.
If you look at solid state memory or SD cards, the read speed already exceeds that with 95MB per second on average. And Blu-ray is already at it's maximum read speed, meaning that with higher capacity discs, such as triple or quadruple layer discs, the relative speed only drops in comparison to SD cards.
@MrGawain The Wii U uses proprietary Blu Ray discs licensed from Philips. From what I remember, Nintendo just hasn't used dual-layer discs.
As long as it doesn't cost too much to fend off Third Party devs, then cartridges all the way!
At least they're better at this than Sony. Here, stuff is still oozing out, but nothing's truly rock solid. That being said, I wish they'd just come out and say something. You made your piece! 3DS will end 2016 (and it's run?) on a high note and what's a WiiU? It's cool to talk about what's happening next.
@XCWarrior There have been plenty of reliable sources on the NX. People around here just like to cherrypick a couple misses and then sham the entire source.
Makes absolutely perfect sense
@Captain_Gonru Zip drives! I'm making that my new cutoff for people I associate with. In '95 I spent $175 for a 4mb RAM chip. That's not relevant, but it's stuck with me all these years. I could probably find the receipt if I looked. Probably in the shoebox with the Zip discs.
And who's talking about downgrading anything? If a handheld chip can do Wii U graphics, why make a new home console, those graphics are fine. XCX proves it if nothing else does.
Piggybacking on Thanos why cards are better, here's why home consoles are better than handheld.
Power. Can't squeeze PS4 power into a handheld. But if you could...
Optical drive for dvd and blu-ray. But if you only have a card slot...
HDD for storage. But if you are only using SD and external...
Now obviously we don't know if a new Nintendo console would have an optical drive, HDD or PS4 Neo power, but if it doesn't have any of those things, just give the handheld tv out, b/c really, what's the point?
As all the rumors suggest the NX is a portable, it makes sense for the games to not be on a disk since they consume more power, that said, the rumors also suggest the maximum size on the game cards will be 32GB, which is disappointing when you consider that many modern games can take up to 50GB of space.
@Captain_Gonru The potential pitfall with writable cartridges (other than save games & high scores) could be data corruption. And from Nintendo's standpoint it would be the anti-piracy issue. If it's writable, it will probably be more easy to copy as well.
An SD card slot without restrictions (as in: compatible with sizes 32GB and up) could take care of the DLC, and the internal memory, which should easily be somewhere around 32 - 64GB on either handheld or home console, could take care of your download only games and VC, and there could also be choices as to where to save that to (SD card, internal storage or external HDD).
@Captain_Gonru I wouldn't worry too much about card size for anything from Nintendo, 20GB or so is probably their high end. They don't do a lot of FMV or different languages on 1 game, and that's all the size, uncompressed audio.
If there were a true separate home and away the away game would only need stereo, not 5.1, so that's a lot smaller in size, and they could keep all the away games on 32gb cards, the home games on 64gb cards. With a hybrid I have wondered if the dock could convert 2.0 to faux 5.1 like old school Dolby Digital, but sound files are above my pay grade.
Oh, yes, if Zelda Wild was on 3DS that would be a killer downgrade, agreed. But I never meant they would actually do that. NX could be Parker, DMP, whatever, and as long as it's as powerful as Wii U it's still the same game. 3DS is 6 years old, and the 2 year old New innards are only slightly juiced, nothing like what's available today. NX will be Wii U power, not 3DS, Zelda Wild won't look like Pikmin 3DS.
@rjejr If you're piggybacking on my story, then you have to drop the optical drive. It really isn't an advantage in comparison to solid state drives, unless you want to play movies on your console, which is about the only reason to want that.
Solid state media offers MASSIVE improvements in speed, are not prone to misreads because they don't have moving parts, and then there's all other benefits I already listed in comment #110.
@ThanosReXXX Optical drives are what makes it look like a home console to me. You take out the optical that leaves you with a set top box, Ouya, Amazon Fire, Nvidia Shield. Wii and Wii U don't play dvds but take out that drive and it looks like a toy. And yes, I know, nobody had optical before PS1, but that's 20 years of optical now. It just won't be a home console without it, until everybody drops it.
And with Sony and MS consoles both having Blu ray, well aren't you the one who keeps saying they are in competition?
@rjejr You and your set top box... Mèh...
For more than half the entire history of game consoles we had cartridge slots and only 4 generations have had optical drives, so factually, having one is not at all synonymous with it being a console or not. That's just a bit of a biased sentiment that you have there, my friend.
Like I already explained multiple times now, there is literally only ONE benefit to having an optical drive, and for real gamers, that is not even a reason to buy a console, because they don't care about playing movies on it.
In all other things, modern cartridges are a tenfold more superior, so just to want to have an optical drive because that would make it look more like a "real" console, is a total non-reason.
And even Sony and Microsoft know this. They capped their Blu-ray drives at 6x speed, which is enough for movie playback, but not enough for playing today's more demanding games, and that is also one of the primary reasons why games need to be installed on these consoles.
To compare once again: Blu-ray drives can do 16x speed max, and in that capacity can push a maximum of 72MB/s.
Modern SD cards can push a maximum of 95MB/s and they are only becoming faster, whereas Blu-ray drives are already maxed out, but the capacity of the discs is growing (four-layered discs are already a thing) but because the drives won't go any faster, the data will not be pushed faster either. In fact, relatively speaking, it will actually go slower.
And the final nail in the coffin is that these numbers are based on max speeds, while both the PS4 and Xbox One only have 6x speed drives, so 16x speed = 72MB/s, but do the math on the actual data transfer of the drives that are actually in these consoles and you'll immediately understand why cartridges are so superior in comparison.
So, you REALLY need to get it out of your head that having a cartridge slot somehow makes a console less of a console or a lesser device, because it's actually quite the opposite.
@ThanosReXXX Woops, could have sworn I did! Fixed!
@3MonthBeef I wonder how the guy who suggested the Game pad faired?
If Iwata, Kimishima or Myamoto said "optical dtive", you can bet your sweet patotie it would have an optical drive. I'm pretty sure is run top down, so if a Nintendo console has an optical drive, it's b/c somebody at the top wants it. Logic has nothing to do with it, only Nintendo Logic matters at Nintendo.
@Captain_Gonru So you'd want to go full-on digital? That would not be my choice either. I like cartridges, always have, always will. And I need to own my physical copy that no company can taint or disable once a console is not supported anymore.
@rjejr Mine eyes doth deceiveth me, or didst thou verily type "Nintendo" correctly a threefold times?
And you can bet your bottom dollar that the whole cartridge thing actually was the idea coming from the top brass. Nintendo always felt pressured into going with optical discs, hence all the weird formats and disc security measures. They will more than gladly return to their format of choice...
@Captain_Gonru "You could have a grandma, holding a cd, trying to find the spot to put it."
Or a captain, holding a Zip cartridge, trying to put it into his Windows phone.
Sorry Gonru, couldn't resist, no offense.
I think there are 2 groups of people who view a home console as a big box with an optical drive, gamers, and developers. You want to sell a home console without either of those 2 groups, well good luck with that.
@rjejr "I think there are 2 groups of people who view a home console as a big box with an optical drive, gamers, and developers."
Well, I think you'd be wrong on both counts. Developers are already thinking WAY ahead and where digital is already their thing in the PC area, it is also becoming more and more common place on consoles, so they couldn't care less about disc drives.
And real gamers just want a dedicated device to play their games and they shouldn't care with whatever drive the console comes or on whatever medium their game is on. As long as it gives them the games they want, they'll be alright...
Otherwise, it would just be some kind of weird psychological thing of having to put a disc into your console and hearing that disc spinning away in order for people to "feel" like they are really playing on a console, even though current consoles aren't even playing their games from that disc anymore.
It only functions as a glorified copy protection, because even when the game is installed, you still need the disc in the drive, unless you've got the digital download version of that game, in which case you obviously don't need a disc...
@Captain_Gonru Forgot to react to you mentioning the Zip drive. I remember trying to save up money for one of these, I believe it was from iOmega, for my Amiga A1200. But in the end, it took me too long and I never got one.
(I probably used the money to go out or something... )
I wonder if nx will be revealed at the Tokyo games show? or is it toy. Can't remember....
Looking forward to some real news about nx soon!
@Captain_Gonru Ever heard of a little thing called DOSBox?
@Captain_Gonru @ThanosReXXX NEXT.
Good, I was ready to give you and Gonru the optical drive argument anyway.
So NEXT is HDD? Lets assume you already won that one too, since Wii U didn't have one, nor any gen before last, so if optical isn't necessary, HDD surely isn't either. Either external or micro SD or something.
Next next. Power. You've convinced me there are several "near PS4" options there. Heck Vita was PS3 and how old is that tech?
So if Nintendo can put all that they need in a handheld, then add TV out, why make a separate home? I know you already told me about not putting all of their eggs in 1 basket, but if 1 basket is sure to fail, 1 is sure to succeed, why not?
I'd still like 1, much easier to do multiplayer, I know it will have multiple accounts, my kids won't be taking it to school or to their bedrooms. But why is it necessary for Ntinedo to make a home console if putting a handheld in a dock aka "SCD" equals a home console based on your requirements for one?
I wonder why some people really really want full digital download games ?
How about specific games (probably older games) that never been released on digital format ?
That's means you have to buy physical format including the box.
And for me, having a real physical games much like i have a treasure box. I can touch and feel it if i owned a game by Real. If i have digital download games, i don't feel i ever owned the games because i can't feel their true existence. When people really rely on download only, they lose opportunity to play specific games that never been released on digital format. Well, that's why i still stick on physical format and must have Tons of patience while waiting for my games arrived after my friend purchasing my order from online game shopping.
@rjejr Well, next "should" be a real HDD, but knowing Nintendo, they'll probably stick with some sort of flash memory. I just hope that it's going to be more than 32GB...
So, for a home console, it'll probably be external HDD's again, unless they surprise me.
PS Vita is less than PS3, not equal. Much like PSP was always sub-PS2 and not equal either.
Why make a separate home? Like I keep saying: choices, my friend, choices. And because they ALWAYS make two dedicated devices, ever since the SNES and the Game Boy.
But with what I'm finding out by myself now, my own view has also slightly changed, making the chances of a hybrid and a dock very slim indeed...
First I thought 3 SKU's, so that everybody could get what they want in dedicated devices, or in a two in one device, for people that just don't want (or have the cash) to buy two systems, but would want to have the functionalities of both, and for that group, a "connect to TV" handheld would be a great option.
But that is all water under the bridge now...
@Anti-Matter I don't know either, so I couldn't agree more. I want control over my games and I want to own physical products, not names and lists in the cloud that can be removed at any time by the company that provides them...
It's a good thing. Since cartridge slots are small and cheap, Nintendo could have multiple cartridge slots on a console. Today, you can only have one retail game in your game console's disk drive at a time and have to shuffle disks when you want to switch games.
Cartridge media have much better random access performance (low latency). Games that would otherwise need to copy portions of the game image onto the console's hard disk can instead run directly off the cartridge media, saving disk space. Remember those big hunks of data that Xenoblade Chronicles X wants you to install in system memory for decent performance? No longer needed.
@rjejr @Captain_Gonru and here we go:
Games and IP's coming to NX according to HNF from what he has heard so far, from the people he has spoken to.
I can now attest to some of them, so his videos may be crazy, he is definitely on to something, since I'm hearing the same things...
@Captain_Gonru with DOSBox, you need to use VDMSound, works like a charm. And another option would be to use Windows Virtual Machine on another PC and do a clean install of Windows 95 on that. No need to let go of your physical discs at all, just giving you options.
I was gonna read the article to glean some info, because I know WSJ tends to do the whole prediction angle instead of actual information, but then I remembered as soon as I clicked that it's behind a sign in. Bah.
In any case, there are very few downsides to cartridges these days. In fact, it can be argued that in many instances, it outweighs discs by a large margin. I fully accept cartridge usage.
@Captain_Gonru You could try and find some more info to help you out with your sound issues here:
If the rumours about what the system is are true, primarily a handheld, this is all good news to me.
If NX has part of portable, make it nice design like New 3DS with noticeable color from previous Nintendo machines. It will looks so beautiful for a game collector. :3
@Kirk Don't tell me that you're on the "cartridges are for handhelds only" train as well. I expect better from you.
@ThanosReXXX Nope. In fact, the day we left cartridges behind I feel was actually a bit of a step back for gaming in many ways. But, if this is a handheld system it just makes sense that it would use cartridges since that's basically been the case since the beginning of time up until now. So, it's a good thing in my book.
@Kirk Good, you had me wondering there for a moment. But in all likelihood it isn't going to be a hybrid, though, so I hope that doesn't crush your dreams...
@Captain_Gonru As a matter of fact, I do. Look for a little gizmo called a "LogiLink USB 2.0 to Serial adaptor". Amazon UK has them, so I guess the American shop should also have them. Or just look for it in your PC shop of choice.
It looks like this:
@Captain_Gonru Here are some more results, if you're looking for a different kind of connector. I just assumed it was an RS232, but just in case:
@rjejr Our old friend SMD has gotten himself a new intro that might just be a little more to your liking...
If they do go the cartridge route and this is truly a home console (or hybrid or whatever) I hope the cartridges won't be too big but at the same time I do hope they are bigger than vita or 3ds cartridges. I am concerned about shelf space...although at least with cartridges I can put the boxes in storage and just use a few multi slot cases like I do for the 3ds and vita.
Quick question, how do i display the picture in this site if from another website so everybody can directly see it ?
I can't display it so always ended up by a red link.
@Captain_Gonru "run into sound card issues"
Ah, those were the days. IRQ conflicts. You know, there was actually a time in my life when I wasn't compeltley useless. It took 28 floppy discs to install Win 95 on my Compaq Presreao. I needed the Zip drive b/c that took up almost all of the 200mb HDD. It all sucked, but I knew it all and could do it.
@ThanosReXXX "even though most of your videos are completely bat-poop crazy."
And really really really freakin loud. Not a good thing to click on at 12:32AM while people are trying to sleep.
@ThanosReXXX 1 good thing about a home NX, even if it has Neo inside, no optical drive and no HDD means it should be about $100 cheaper, right? And running off cards means no mandatory installs. And no hybrid means no screen, so that's $50 less than a hybrid. So the potential is there, but I'm still not feeling it.
They aren't really cheaper, I need to pay a post fee
So much like Pokémon, the nintendo console is returning to its roots. All the best of luck to them.
@ThanosReXXX What do you mean?
At this point it's nigh-on confirmed that it's basically a handheld with TV/home streaming/output of some kind (maybe via a stand or small "console" box plugin or whatever) and detachable ends, for all intents and purposes.
As per the rumours: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/video_eurogamers_nx_rumours_and_what_they_mean_for_the_next-gen_system
That's basically what I believe too.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, but I like being dumb and spoil the puzzle anyway. ;P
It's not just the mandatory installs, it's the updates. Wouldn't it still need a hard drive? They are trying to push for full game downloads so they need some solution for that. I guess they could force external hard drives/sd cards again, but that will be a hidden cost and a pain to something built in. Also, many games have multi GB updates. I'm sure the game carts wouldn't have space for updates.
Nintendo has high overhead and wants to drive a large profit margin. So it's harder to deduce what they want for hardware compared to the others. The Wii U had an estimated component cost of $228 and they lost a ton of money initially and after they dropped the cost to $300 on that.
I finally got an xbox one so I now know the pain of mandatory installs. It's especially painful as I'm more of a retro lover and those games are just so easy to get into.
However, this doesn't really solve much for me. I have terrible internet. Updates are the far bigger problem for me. I live in the country and the most I can get is 3.5 Mb/s down. So I can download about 1 GB/hour assuming the internet is working well. Forza 6 had like a 19 GB update. Rayman Legends 6.6 GB. NHL 16 2.7 GB. So yeah, I basically have to start installing the day before I want to play something. 40 minute wait for dumping to a hard drive is very minor in comparison.
Welcome back game cartridge, NX will do what the Coleco Chameleon failed to do. Offered a new gaming console through game cartridge or memory card based format.
@cleveland124 I don't see why Nintendo would think NX needs a HDD anymore than Wii U did. I have about 100GB of downloads on my Wii U - spread out between an old externsl HDD, thumbdrive, and internal - and I buy most of my games on disc. XCX was Edit: 11GB just for the optional download, I own the disc, and that's a 1st party Nintendo game.
I do think they will put in more storage, maybe 64GB in a hybrid, 128GB if they make a home console, but it will mainly be a "bring your own" situation once again.
Sonys handheld Vita I think came with zero storage at launch. ZERO. And it's proprietary memory cards were very expensive. I think the newer model Vita may come with 4GB either built in or on a card in the box.
So, if NX is a handheld or hybrid with TV out, I think Vita is the benchmark, not PS4 or X1. So as long as NX takes standard issue cards, SD or Micro SD, that's good for a handheld. And a home console or dock would have slots for men or cards. I just don't see a HDD in any Nintendo device.
It will be cool to see cartridges make a comeback. But this does mean no disc drive and no backwards compatibility with WiiU & Wii Games. Doesn't really matter though because I don't think the NX will be successful anyways. Nintendo believes they have to do something different just for the sake of being different and than can't figure out how to explain to everyone else why different is better.
I think if the NX is a tablet, disk space becomes even more of an issue. Because a portable hard drive won't be a viable solution. You'll be forced to swap SD cards.
I guess it really depends on what the NX is though. Vita failed in part because of the terrible storage solution. People didn't want to pay $100 for 64GB of memory. And if the NX is a hybrid, I'd expect at least 720p to be the standard which means bigger games/experiences than the Vita. Actually it looks like almost all Vita games are smaller than 3 GB whereas Wii U Games are much bigger than that as you've mentioned 20 GB for XCX. I'm guessing NX games will be bigger than that unless we are already conceding that the Wii U version of Zelda will be the definitive version. So most generations require more storage than the last. 32 GB was too small for the Wii U, but it would have been huge on the Wii and impossible to use 5% of that on the Gamecube. So yes, I do think it'll need it more than the Wii U.
There's also the business side of things. A 1 TB hard drive would cost like $30. A game download cuts out of the cost of providing the cartridge/manufacturing/packaging/shipping $6, cuts out the retailer cut $12, and isn't resellable which means it doesn't compete against future sales. There's a strong argument that it's in Nintendo's best interest to push download sales. Having poor storage options won't do that.
@Anti-Matter To post a picture, use the code img in between these: [ ] and close off the link, type /img also between [ ]
@rjejr "And really really really freakin loud"
Yeah... sorry about that one, I thought about warning you about that, but I kind of forgot... In all honesty, all his videos are loud, so it was to be expected...
And I see you read the comment I wrote there.
"even if it has Neo inside"
What? Neo inside? But yes, no optical drive means a reduction of around $20 - $30 in component & production cost, and the same will go for a controller without a screen, although I never said that there would only be screenless controllers. How else would you play Wii U remasters on NX?
And indeed, no mandatory installs, yet another crucial benefit of cartridges that I even forgot to mention in my list in comment #110. The game is basically already installed on the cartridge, so the only installs are potential updates, bug fixes and DLC, which can all go to SD card, internal storage or HDD.
"So the potential is there, but I'm still not feeling it."
Ah, but you're getting there, so you will, my friend, you will...
@Kirk No, it's not confirmed at all. And because I was tired of all the hybrid "news" coming from a certain site and nearly every other site piggybacking off of that or simply regurgitating that message, I began my own serious investigation and started to poke and pry and renew some of my contacts in the IT business close to the gaming industry, and what I found out is quite interesting...
Most of it is not all that different from what some of the people opposed to the hybrid rumor are saying, and it basically means a handheld and a console, just like always.
@Slaz +1 for your brutal honesty. I like that in a person.
@ThanosReXXX The only place I've really got close to you is that yes, there will be a Home and Away, but it's the same device in a different package bundled with a different game. My Core Tesseract idea.
The only reason I have left for not doing that is the screen is a waste on a Home console. How much does a 6.2" 720p multitouch cost these days? I know you know. That money could go towards power. But then I think they wasted the screen on the Gamepad, why not a Home console? And people loved "off tv play" so that would still be there. Dock needs to be wireless so you can do 2 screens, its basically just the Wii U guts moved into the Gamepad with a few ports left in the console.
So if they could get that to work, why wouldn't they go with the hybrid?
And really, what's up with all your secrecy lately, you writing a book, opening up a paywalled NX website or worried about Nintendo's ninjas?
Well, whatever you do, don't make it so loud.
@ThanosReXXX Oh yeah, I thought of another reason to make a Home, besides saving money on a useless docked screen under my tv, no battery. So if you have a $249 handheld, strip out the battery and screen, that's a $149 Home. Basically a "3DS Player" that doesn't need the Wii U. Though it would need a $50 Pro controller so that's $200. Which brings me back to your favorite "meh" place, the set top box, b/c it would be this.
And yes, I know it would be an NX Player, not a 3DS Player, but that's how it kind of comes across to me, if NX only has 1 set of games then this isn't its own system, its a just a separate TV out console. And if that's the case, just give NX handheld tv out.
There just aren't enough reasons for NX home to exist, and if it EDIT: does exist, I'm not sure how to convince people to buy it.
Whatever it is you're keeping secret must be mind-boggling indeed.
@rjejr "And really, what's up with all your secrecy lately, you writing a book, opening up a paywalled NX website or worried about Nintendo's ninjas?
Well, whatever you do, don't make it so loud. "
I'm not loud. I've just told you what I have done, and that is start my own little investigation instead of relying on "EuroGamer nation" to provide me with so-called "news" from "reliable" sources, and like you, the wait is starting to get to me, so I was getting annoyed at the lack of real news, and ESPECIALLY at people and sites claiming the moon, the sun AND the stars without providing us with a single tangible shred of evidence or revealing their sources.
I've been digging and communicating back and forth for a little over a week now, and I've already found out more than EuroGamer did, mostly because they stopped digging at the "tablet" with detachable controllers, thinking that was the golden bone they were looking for.
Well, I can tell you that it's not.
Let me know if you got my email address and I'll prove it to you.
@ThanosReXXX "Let me know if you got my email address and I'll prove it to you."
That would be the secrecy part.
I get you not wanting to reveal your sources, but if you know it's a home or a watch or a car or an aircraft carrier just say so, I'll take your word for it.
And besides, I'm not to be trusted, anything you send to me in an email I'm likely to squeal, and the Nintendo ninjas will trace it back to you.
@ThanosReXXX Having a hybrid (but basically another handheld) AND another full console too just doesn't seem like the smartest of moves to me at this time. I don't see how that makes NX particularly different; and multiple people at Nintendo have said on multiple occasions that it is indeed something very different.
I think I'll stick with the most likely scenario, imo, that it's a predominantly handheld that can play games through the TV too in one way or another and has detachable controllers. That really switches things up, because it will be the first time Nintendo has basically just had one system since the days of the NES, pretty much, and something that's also a kind of amalgamation of two disparate platforms into one solution, which again is also very different for Nintendo.
I'm pretty confident when all the major gaming sites are saying they've actually contacted their trusted sources, who are confirming the rumours are accurate, that the rumours are probably pretty accurate.
And, on a personal note, I just don't see the point in Nintendo going for two full platforms again, although I wouldn't say it's impossible either. But, having only a predominantly handheld console that also functions in some way as a home console, without there actually being a full home console, seems like a pretty smart move going forward to me.
@rjejr Squeal? Really? Aw man, I was kind of hoping to have pegged you right after all this time, as far as anyone can gauge an anonymous person online.
In real life, I'm pretty good at gauging people, but online? That's another story entirely...
Regardless, I would assume I would safely be able to hold you in a considerable higher regard than some kid who would be so excited to receive some secret info and subsequently, wouldn't be able to keep it to themselves. I mean we are both old and grey men here; we should be FAR beyond such shenanigans, right?
It's a home and a handheld, and there appears to be a third and/or additional component, which "sounds" (not looks) similar to the EuroGamer rumor, which is what I meant when I said they stopped digging at that.
They found one bone, but if you continue to dig, there's actually a whole dinosaur to be uncovered. Now, I'm not a guy to scare easily (bulky, slightly overweight martial arts type) but nowadays, I also have to think of my business, and the trust of other people that have now confided in me not to disclose any personal details, so you could probably imagine why I would like to clamp down on any possible trails leading to me.
Via email, that would not be possible, because the address I gave you is specifically for gaming sites and more trusted communications, and I have taken measures years ago to properly shield and separate that from my professional profile.
But if you don't even trust yourself, then I will have to keep all the juicy details to myself...
I can give you some general points:
Chipset not confirmed at all, could be Nvidia, but could still also be something entirely different. Chipsets seen by EuroGamer or others not corroborated directly and could be from early/beta dev kits, or could even be a placeholder chip.
Xilinx is definitely a thing, as I mentioned here. What they do amongst other things is make fast, high quality video and data stream protocols over long distances, so think a MUCH improved version of the GamePad.
And YES, I made a tiny booboo there, because THAT part from the predominantly European originated rumor could be correct (check PlayerEssence's latest video to see exactly what I mean by that. It's a long one, discussing both the Nintendo Direct and the latest rumors, so skip to around the 12min mark to get to the NX part. Irrefutable logic once again, although he is going on a bit of a rant a few minutes into the NX bit, so be warned)
So, probably 3 SKU's after all, or just an extra peripheral for all the people that want to play Wii U games on NX, I don't know yet. But I'm still digging...
Well, that's all for now, have to make a comment for someone else here, and after that, it's Bacardi time because it's weekend and I need a drink after all these exciting excavations I have done this week...
It will be interesting when they announce that it won't be backwards compatible with Wii U but the 3DS.
@Kirk Well, believe what you will, my friend, can't stop you from doing that even if I wanted to. (but I respect other's opinions, so I don't)
I have good reasons to believe that the "predominantly handheld" idea is out the door, if it was ever through the door to begin with.
Making sense and Nintendo is probably also not a term you should use in one sentence. It's that exact quirkiness that we all either hate or love, or love to hate, I get confused sometimes in my old age...
They can hit it out of the park or make a total mess of it, as we all know, but they will never make sense in my humble opinion.
I've now spoken to tech people, smaller developers, and I'm in the process of getting connected to larger fish via LinkedIn, so I expect to learn more in the coming week. In any case, what I have now already been sent is testament to at least two devices, that are designated (by both developers and programmers) as "handheld" and "console", and they are specifically mentioned to be separate, so definitely not hybrid.
Now, nothing is conclusive, these people could be totally BS'ing me, but I still pull some weight in the IT market, and my direct connections are solid, and I came by these people via my own connections, people that I have known for decades, and not only online; I've worked with most of them. So either we are all taken for a fool, or something else is going on. I'm betting it's the latter, based on the intel I have received so far and things that have been mentioned.
Do take note that this does not entirely rule out the EuroGamer device, but like so many opposed to the idea, I also believe that is only a part of the whole concept, as I said in the comment above this one. And you say "all the major gaming sites are saying they've actually contacted their trusted sources, who are confirming the rumours are accurate" but the thing is, that there are no MAJOR gaming sites reporting on this. Literally ALL these sites are either reporting on the EuroGamer rumor, or are regurgitating that message as if they themselves have found that out themselves. And EuroGamer has already made a massive mistake back when they were "all but definitely sure" about the chipset going into the original 3DS, so they certainly aren't as reliable or knowledgeable as people make them out to be...
Actual chipset used:
Besides NLife, I'm also on the biggest independent Nintendo site in the Benelux, because of where I currently live, obviously, and other than mentioning the EG article one time, back when it was first revealed, they have NEVER spoken of it again, and to this day, it is still in the rumors section.
That to me is very telling. I've come to know some of the crew of that site and they are VERY diligent in their investigative reporting, and if they smell something is off or incomplete, they'll say so. I even asked them once why they're not reporting on it anymore, and they said because other than being a rumor, there is not enough substantial info there to take it any more seriously than that. So, there you have it.
Another "great" and "reliable" source is Emily Rogers, who to me is nothing more than an a-technical attention wh...
I say a-technical, because she has no technical background or knowledge whatsoever. The way she talks about hardware speaks volumes about that. Just take a look at her blog:
Her info is mostly coming from the Indie scene, where she has quite a few contacts, but everything else is coming to her indirectly, so whatever she says has no weight for me. She has been right a few times, but even a broken clock is right two times a day...
And the other sites reporting on it are sites like LetsPlayVideoGames, a site with 2 editors, and then there's just a lot of piggybacking going on, mostly from European sites. All the action is happening outside of Europe, so you would have to wonder why so many big non-European sites are NOT reporting on it at all, besides mentioning it once, much like that independent Benelux site that I mentioned earlier did.
I hope we are not going into another digital war again with miles and miles of text. I respect your opinion, and obviously you don't have to agree with what I say, but all I did was renew some of my connections, make some new ones and ask questions, and I got some answers and even proof emailed to me, and these things just don't match with the rumor that is now so predominantly mentioned.
If you'd ask me as a sales & marketing professional, Nintendo is letting this run riot on purpose, because it's the perfect smoke screen and it diverts all attention from what they have actually made.
Just ask yourself this: what in the name of whoever is so very special and secret about the things that the rumor mentions, that Nintendo would be so protective of it out of fear that the competition would steal ideas from it? My answer is: nothing.
And you're a smart guy, and a developer yourself. You should be able to find some stuff out on your own as well. I never just accept any info given unless it's trackable or has verifiable sources, which the EuroGamer rumor has not.
Like I said to @rjejr in the comment above this one, take some time to watch PlayerEssence's latest video, it makes SO much sense. The NX bit starts around 12 mins. into the video.
This is what nobody seems to be talking about; Nintendo has also said that the NX will be something totally different but the current rumors are really just a more powerful Wii U that you can walk out the door with.
I hope they don't market it that way. I think it has to be totally divorced from the Wii in public consciousness.
I have 0 contacts and take this back-and-forth with a grain of salt but a lot of what you say makes sense simply in light of my comments above.
@Mainsaile Well, like I said to Kirk, I can't stop people believing what they want to believe, but I'm 100% serious. Check my profile. I'm no sensationalist kid trying to look interesting. I just did some research with help of my own contacts in the IT business (I'm a sales & marketing professional) and found out some stuff.
@ThanosReXXX Well, all I know when I say "the major gaming sites" is that IGN, for example, has basically confirmed it with its sources (that it's some kind of handheld that outputs to TV or whatever), and IGN is by far the biggest gaming site in the world, one that has been around since the N64 era, and one that I actually trust because of people like Peer Schneider who really does have enough fingers in enough big pies to speak with genuine credibility at this point. When IGN as a site is basically saying it's confirmed some of this information itself via its sources, there's little other people or sites I'd trust more—even as much of a douche as IGN can be at times.
And, I actually do hold a lot of respect for the guys at Nintendo Life too, many of whom have been around since the likes of Mean Machines and earlier, and I largely trust their claims of verification from reliable sources too.
The rest, who knows; who knows.
I don't know who PlayerEssence is. He's a random nobody YouTuber to me, and I almost certainly take everything random YouTubers say with a pinch of salt; they could just be total randoms like me speculating from their rooms, and in most cases probably are, especially the smaller ones. So, you saying I should watch his random video isn't really going to mean much to me. Other than you saying he's saying good stuff, I have no reason to give his words any more credence than the other hundreds of thousands or millions of random YouTubers out there pretending they have the best notion of what NX is going to be. Christ, I have more of a notion than 99% of them—and I basically have no clue what it's going to be outside of pure speculation, some common sense based on years working in the industry and thinking about this stuff firsthand, and just looking at the same rumours and Patents and whatever else that everyone else is looking. So, I wouldn't even trust my own best guesses. lol
Edit: And let's be clear here; IGN's not talking to the likes of Emily Rogers or some random bloggers or whatever when its talking about its "sources", of that I'm pretty certain. It's almost certainly talking about people working for the likes of Nintendo, major third parties, major component manufacturers and that kind of stuff, who it likely has leaking info to it like some kind of industrial spies from time to time just because of the position its in. Yes, Emily Rogers' "sources" are probably random bloggers and stuff, but not IGN. Christ, when I worked at Rare and Rockstar North I was in the loop more than most of these bloggers and stuff, at least about those company's games, and I'm sure IGN knows a whole lot of people in the industry like that, Nintendo employees too, who they're very close pals with. But, I'm just speculating given what I think would simply make sense in this kind of scenario, obviously.
@ThanosReXXX There ya go: I went to that guy's video and watched it, and then I posted my own comment below it.
Happy now? lol
Hey, I've just had a thought regarding my own idea for NX.
As much as I'd love all the specs I've suggested to be true, it doesn't even need to have some of them to still be basically the exact same machine: I say 1080p, but the reality is that the Wii U is 1080p yet you can still see and play the games perfectly well on the much lower resolution GamePad screen, so a 720p screen (as is rumoured) would be totally fine for my idea too (even emulating the two DS/3DS screens on that single screen still works at that resolution). And this is actually true of the stereoscopic element too: If that's removed you can still play all the 3DS and even Virtual Boy games on a simple 2D screen, just as you can on the 2DS right now.
So, the point is that even though I think my idea is awesome, it can in fact be cut down slightly to maybe make it a bit more realistic in terms of the cost of the hardware, and it would still be basically the same system I'm talking about.
This makes me even more hyped for the real NX as it's rumoured to be, this hybrid console, because now in my mind it can be totally in line with my own idea with only the detachable controllers really being the main thing I didn't have.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE 3DS carts got ridges
Awesome! 3ds backwards compatibility confirmed😜 They should make them nice and sleek akin to the turbo grafix 16/PC engine. The NX finally got interesting for me.
@Kirk You didn't have to watch that video for me, so I'm not going to be more or less happy if you decided to watch it or not. But he is not some random YouTuber. There are literally thousands of people on YouTube making their own videos about Nintendo and/or NX, and there's only a few that actually take the time to put some thought into what they are saying and are trying to make well informed videos that contain enough information to back up their statements.
Although he might be a bit too "American" for your taste, PlayerEssence is one of these people, and so is SuperMetalDave64, StudioQ so that is why I only watch those channels for my Nintendo speculation needs.
Want crazy, clueless and useless? Go watch OBE1Plays or King Avery Games...
And then there are some people on Twitter like HappyNintendoFan really doing some hardcore detective work on the topic.
And then I of course also have a mind of my own and I just decided to give it a go and see what I could dig up through my own contacts, and I have to say that I was actually surprised at how far I got, and in the coming week, some more contacts will be added through people I already know, so that will either bring additional information or will confirm what I now know. And what I've learned so far, honestly does come across as multiple systems, dedicated devices.
And why would Nintendo hire two separate marketing leads for handheld and console, if NX is going to be one device?
If I as a marketing professional would HAVE to make that idea fit, then that would mean that they are going to market a single device in two completely separate ways, and that makes no sense at all, at least not in this universe...
Make of that what you will.
And IGN means nothing to me. Even as an American, I think they are a sensationalist, highly biased site, and it is certainly not beneath them to misreport on stuff, regardless of the fact that there might be some good people working there. Only a couple of years ago, they were very anti-Nintendo, and they have flip-flopped between the other two quite a bit, so I do not take much of what they say seriously. Their reviews often differ wildly from other big sites, regardless of what game on what system they are reviewing. Could be good, could be bad, but sticking out like a sore thumb nine out of ten times isn't really positive in my book. And who are these sources then? Why aren't they revealed? Because they could be wrong, possibly? If something is verified and double-checked, then these sources could be revealed, or at the very least hinted at without calling them out directly. Just saying "well, I have a friend who's friend is a developer for Nintendo and they told me this so it is true, but I'm not going to tell you who he is." should hold no water in any sane person's book...
I do have to wonder though, why you seem to think (even besides the whole EuroGamer rumor) that NX being a handheld is the best thing logically, or is that just a personal wish you have?
Your concept sounds great in some ways, and you seem to have put a lot of thought into it, but if you think from a company's perspective, you would have to think of ALL your potential customers, and going by the latest numbers (even if they aren't all that great) there are at least 13 million people worldwide that would rather buy a dedicated home console instead of a beefed up handheld, and you can't just dismiss that audience by saying: "well, we are just going to make this one device, so take it or leave it". In my professional opinion that would be a marketing (and sales) fiasco the likes of which we haven't even seen before.
And you think that the Wii U flopped? That is going to seem successful in comparison, if the single, multi-purpose handheld is going to be an actual thing. Nintendo is not a Swiss pocket knife nor should they want to become one.
I already told other people, like @rjer and @Captain_Gonru that switching to a single device also puts them in a very tough spot if it fails, so when you have two dedicated devices, at least one will succeed. Preferably both, but you'll get the point...
And all statements made by mr. Iwata and mr. Kimishima up til now explicitly clarify that it was also never the plan to make a single device. They explicitly stated in unmistakable terms NOT to want to integrate two devices into one: they want to have an "environment", ecosystem if you will, like Apple has or like Android is, where multiple devices can take advantage of sharing the same OS or platform, so that sharing software/games will also be much more organic and simplified, which is where the whole sharing cartridges between a home and an away system will come into play. And that is also why NX is not a system, but an architecture, that is not bound to a single device. So, more than likely, there is no "the" NX. They might reveal only one device at first, but more will come and they will all share that same architecture. It's what the whole consolidation of departments was also about, as described in the financial reports that mention the very statements I just talked about.
And that idea makes perfect sense and it also sounds and "feels" completely like something that Nintendo would do. Not a hybrid handheld that is actually a tablet with break-away controllers. It sounds so unbelievably un-Nintendo, that it would seem to me to be totally crazy for them to do something like this. Then again: we're talking about Nintendo, so who knows?
And for the record: I did state in my comments to you and others that the device could be a new version of the GamePad to cater to the Wii U remakes that are going to be on NX, and it might even have some specific games made for it, but then it would be an additional peripheral, not the main thing. (in my opinion, a GamePad 2.0 as the main thing also wouldn't really signify a complete move away from what the Wii and Wii U were, as mr. Kimishima has stated)
And that brings me to my last point. I have to again ask you that last question that I asked you in comment #193 (which, by the way, I didn't get an answer to):
"Just ask yourself this: what in the name of whoever is so very special and secret about the things that the rumor mentions, that Nintendo would be so protective of it out of fear that the competition would steal ideas from it? My answer is: nothing."
And I'll stand by that statement until tangible evidence comes forth that proves otherwise. And that evidence will more than likely come straight from the horse's mouth, and not some game site or undisclosed "trusted/reliable source". It probably won't be long now either, so we can finally be sure and put all this stuff to rest. Just as well, because the very reason I started this little investigation of my own is because I'm sick of all the wonky rumors that just seem to make no sense to me. And waiting is a b....
But needless to say, as you will know by now from our previous encounters, all I mentioned is done so without intent to insult, offend or do any other form of negative action, so it's just my thoughts and opinions. Cheers...
@Captain_Gonru That could be where the Xilinx tech comes in: it can stream high quality video, audio and data, so as long as you're online, you can stream that anywhere. And it could be tied to your profile/NNID and the data could be maintained in the cloud. DeNA could come in handy there, since maintaining game servers is their strength.
But a better solution (in my opinion) would probably be to sync the console and the handheld, download the extra stuff at home by streaming it from the console, or even via USB connector, and then having the same content on both devices. But online/cloud only certainly is an option, although not one I'd prefer.
Speaking of connectors: I hope the info in comments #163 and #164 was of use to you...
@Captain_Gonru On a side note, and something that I have also already stated quite a few months ago: if the home and handheld are indeed going to share games, then I am going to expect some kind of downscaling, because obviously a handheld isn't going to be as powerful as a console, so think scaled down effects, lower resolution and draw distance and/or possibly frame rate, although that last one not necessarily so, since downgrading all the other stuff should mean that a frame rate can be maintained.
What that would mean in the real world is that the NX shared architecture has some kind of detection mode, or the software on the cartridge could "detect" in which device it is inserted and subsequently run a version of the game suited to the device.
Software-wise that could simply be done by writing some code that says to either use or not use extra stuff (game assets) on the cartridge that is only meant for the home console.
Think of it as two versions of a game PC: one is mid range, and the other is high end. On the mid range game PC you would still be able to play the same game, but you would have to scale down a couple of things or even switch off stuff (lighting, effects, shadows, AA, filtering etc.) to make the gameplay experience a smooth one. A lot of PC games already do this automatically by having a "recommended settings" option that detects what hardware is in your PC by clicking on it.
A console or handheld could do this automatically and display the right version of the game without you having to fiddle with settings.
And besides all that, I also wouldn't be surprised if there are also dedicated games that are only for either of the systems, so games more suited to a handheld and games simply too heavy for a handheld that will only play on a console.
And the SCD's are actually a thing, but they are for the home console, future proofing it power-wise, so newer games will probably also be more demanding.
That then makes three cartridge labels: home, handheld and cross-platform ones. Red, green and blue labeled to signify the difference so you can't buy the wrong one... (my two cents for the marketing department of Nintendo)
"aircraft carrier"? http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Spear_of_Adun
"As part of its 2015 April Fool's event, Blizzard advertised a Spear of Adun replica (estimated completion date 2315), and one to scale. This included a link to its merchandise page with a special price of $9,999,998.00 (a whole $1 discount)."
You "can" buy there: http://gear.blizzard.com/index.php/spear-of-adun?utm_source=App&utm_medium=other&utm_content=external-sso
As far as i remember/check site was avaible untill may 2016 (i am 100% sure that it was avaible 1st april 2016 also)
Now you will get 404 error.
Well... it was always out of stock/temporarily unavaible .
@Krzysztofa "Well... it was always out of stock/temporarily unavaible .
Well, that's still easier to buy than an NX.
@Captain_Gonru Well, although I can see where you're going with that, I don't entirely agree. There are just some games that don't translate very well to the big screen and vice versa. Taking myself as an example, with the Game Boy Player on GameCube I still very much had the impression that I was playing a handheld game on my TV.
Now, granted, if we now get a handheld that can play Breath of the Wild as if it was a Wii U, then that would obviously look a lot better on a big screen as well, and some kind of upscale chip (forgot to mention that in my previous comment) could also be in the home console, to lessen the difference even further, but there are still types of games that are really only good on a handheld, smaller games or games with a specific aesthetic or gameplay mechanic that works on the go, but not on the big screen. And if the handheld has a touch screen again, that would either mean that you should be able to use it as a controller to play on the big screen, or there will indeed have to be a GamePad 2.0 to cater to that.
And if games get more demanding of the hardware, taking into account the whole SCD thing, then there are bound to be games that will simply be too big/complicated for the handheld to be able to process. I would then see your "NX devices gen3" comment as a situation where you would only be able to play "current" gen NX home console games on a next gen NX handheld (or even two generations later) that will be released many years down the line, if the transfer from DS/DSi to 3DS is any kind of indication, and that doesn't seem to be a very good work-around for sharing games...
Then again: I'm only human, so I could be wrong about all of it, and some people I contacted could now be laughing their behinds off at my gullible nature...
Guess we'll find out in a week or two, three.
@rjejr @Captain_Gonru @aaronsullivan well, if this is true, then that's the end of my research because I'm not going to find out any additional information THAT soon anymore, my contact was going to email me tuesday or wednesday...
Here's the translated version of the website he mentioned...
The sentence "in the immediate vicinity of Central Europe" should probably have been translated as "in the immediate vicinity of the European Headquarters" if my somewhat rusty German is correct.
Grain of salt obviously, and besides this rumor, there's also a rumor about a September 13th reveal, so it's far from clear when we will actually be hearing something official...
@ThanosReXXX "I do have to wonder though, why you seem to think (even besides the whole EuroGamer rumor) that NX being a handheld is the best thing logically, or is that just a personal wish you have?"
Both, basically. And, to be clear, a handheld that also functions as a home console (just without the physical console-under-the-TV part).
"Just ask yourself this: what in the name of whoever is so very special and secret about the things that the rumor mentions, that Nintendo would be so protective of it out of fear that the competition would steal ideas from it?"
You can find the answer to that question in the comment I made on PlayerEssence's video (I'm iNCEPTIONAL):
@Kirk Well, to me, EuroGamer isn't all that trustworthy, I didn't even know them before the PS4 NEO rumor and only after that found out that Digital Foundry was part of them. I like tangible proof, or statements supported by evidence, none of which has been coming forth from them.
What I received in my inbox last week from the people I have spoken to so far, is a thousand times more tangible and it can be verified against actual existing data/information. That is what counts, and I don't think that it counts only in my book...
And I have actually already read that comment you made (knew your name also, since we've talked about that before), and although I can almost meet you in the middle there, I'm not entirely on board with it, especially since only Sony is into handhelds (or, more accurately: was) so no handheld concept, no matter how spectacular, would seem to me to be so special that they would need to shield it from the competition for fear of them copying it, because they wouldn't even want to. Unless it contains some kind of tech that could also be implemented into other devices, like consoles, tablets and so on. But I just don't think that is it.
And how do you feel about how this handheld would stack up against the consoles, power wise? It probably wouldn't even come close, making the gap wider once again, and they had just partially narrowed it by finally stepping into the HD era, so that would be a HUGE step back.
@Kirk And needless to say, that this will spell doom once again for third party support. (and yes, I know that third party isn't necessarily a thing needed, as per your idea, but still: the rest of the gamers in the world actually DO want these games, as do I)
Hardly a surprise if true.
If the NX really is a hand-held battery-powered device, NO WAY it would use discs.
Nintendo also seems to appreciate the durability and size of flash-based, and with new production methods, the price can be brought down to reasonable levels even for high capacity cards.
On top of this, rewritability would be a great benefit to many of Nintendo's designs. And special technology being included in cartridges might return, even if this is less likely.
@ThanosReXXX Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do w/ you and Kirk, welcome to the party @kirk and not sure when I'll get to that 1:08 PE vid, so thank you very much for giving me time to go to. 3 more days and the kids will be back to school. Don't suppose Nintendo will announce before then, huh?
Oh, and I probably wouldn't squeal, I have some self control, but it would be annoying to carry on a conversation w/ you, aaron and Gonru if half of us are privy to info the other half arent', I'm a team player. OK, not really, don't like teams, but "group of like minded individuals" player sounds stupid, even for me.
I'll try and get caught back up.
Oh, and how do you keep talking about 3 SKUs w/o giving my tablet it's due? If there's more than 1 then there will be a tablet. Though not for a couple more years, New 2DS first. So SKU #4 is the 2DS replacmeent.
Oh, and I still think 3 SKUs can be built around the hybrid. (I've decided on hybrid, my core and tessearct names were getting too complicated to keep track of. So 3 skus - $299 w/ dock and Pro and made for TV game, $199 w/o dock or Pro ad made for small screen game, $349 w/ 2 games and a large micro SD card.
@ThanosReXXX I don't think this handheld would stack up against the other home consoles in terms of graphics, and I don't think it would need to; it would still be the most powerful handheld ever created, and the most powerful Nintendo home console to date when running through your TV. If it were trying to be a home console then it would obviously have problems again right out the gate by being less powerful than PlayStation and Xbox, but I think the point is in trying to circumvent the need to even make that comparison—which Nintendo clearly is going to lose anyway because it's just not going to make a home console that competes on a graphics level anymore—much like no one really compares iPhone or Apple TV to home consoles.
I think a lot of you guys struggle to separate the idea of a home console from the idea of a portable. Taken as a portable alone, it would be crazy to not see how this basically isn't the best handheld Nintendo has ever created; so the notion it wouldn't sell tens of millions seems a bit daft to me, seeing as all the historical evidence of Nintendo's handheld success says otherwise. And, this would really just be its best handheld ever, which also happens to work as a home console TOO. There basically is no real home console to compare directly to Microsoft's and Sony's machines anymore, and that's the angle that I think allows this design to play to its strengths rather than its kind of non-weaknesses.
Sony any Microsoft would be left battling for the dedicated home console/entertainment centre space, and Nintendo goes off and totally dominates the handheld space once again plus captures at least the same number of sales in the "home console" space as Wii U just by virtue of the fact the thing can be played on a TV anyway. It's win win for Nintendo as far as I'm concerned. But, I think some people are stuck in the mindset of Nintendo continuing to compete in the same red ocean it's slowly but surely losing to the competition, and that's a bigger mistake than trying to carve out a slightly different path this time around imo, because I really don't see anything Nintendo can realistically do anymore to not lose the same old home console war once again—and, certainly, not a single idea I've seen in here about it about it releasing basically yet another typical home console has me believing differently, so why the hell would any developers or publishers believe any differently either.
So, the point is that this hybrid handheld with home console capability actually is a game-changer to a large degree, for Nintendo at least, as its Nintendo's shot at genuinely breaking away from the home console battle that it's almost certainly not going to win anymore, maybe not even compete anymore, while focussing its strengths in an area its historically dominated—and, as of yet, I really don't see much of a negative to that if it does this hybrid NX idea right.
But, you have your sources and you believe what they're telling you, and I simply believe a site like IGN when it tells me its confirmed the hybrid NX more than I believe any single other source I've read thus far, be that Eurogamer, Nintendo Life, you, whomever. I guess we'll all know soon enough which of these sources is more in the loop, and maybe from it we can learn some lessons, or not. . . .
And, if we're just broadly talking about Nintendo thinking it needs to protect it's ideas from the likes of Sony and Microsoft:
One could claim that Nintendo would consider that as Sony basically seeing how Nintendo decided to get into mobile gaming, and having such "game-changing" success with Pokemon Go, decided to copy it; and maybe it thinks of that as being something it wishes it could have protected from being copied by the competition. Maybe it thinks even things like this might be underlying ideas and ideals that are evident if you see the full NX picture, and maybe it wants to keep that full picture hidden from the competition for a long as possible. Just throwing out thoughts here. The point is that Nintendo clearly thinks something about NX needs to be protected from the competition, and I don't seen any reason whatsoever why the hybrid NX concept we've seen floating around couldn't be considered as containing multiple things/ideas/concepts that Nintendo might consider important enough to want to protect, be it in hardware, software, or services (probably all three).
Hopefully ALL Region of 3DS games can be played in NX.
So, it will be very helpful for playing import games.
NX MUST be Free Region and can encoding all 3DS game's region.
@ThanosReXXX I've no idea why you think Nintendo releasing its most powerful handheld ever, which also additionally happens to allow play on your TV at home too, would spell doom for third party support once again. I certainly haven't seen this major lack of third party support on any of Nintendo's previous handheld consoles, and this, by my measure, would be the most exciting and potentially lucrative handheld concept Nintendo has ever created. I don't see any good reason, as of yet, why third parties would suddenly choose not to support this new handheld from Nintendo, when they should be well aware that Nintendo's handhelds normally sell in multiple the tens of millions of units—that's a lot of potential consumers—which is ultimately all they really care about at the end of the day.
Again, I think the confusion here is that you think I'm talking about this NX hybrid idea as being Nintendo's next home console or something, a device which would naturally be competing against the likes of PS4 and Xbox One, but I'm clearly not. My whole take is that a "hybrid" NX—a handheld, which just happens to output to TV too—is ultimately designed to basically avoid that home console war for the most part, which is precisely what I think Nintendo needs to do here, because it's simply not going to win or even compete in the ongoing home console wars if it just keeps doing basically the same thing it's been doing in that space for a while now, imo.
@Kirk Well, like I already said to you in a previous comment: I certainly like your idea and I can agree with it quite a bit, but not completely.
As for the misconception: there is none here. I have mentioned multiple times, mostly during the whole Nvidia Tegra debate, that the handheld will be a beast and indeed the most powerful handheld ever made, so we definitely agree there. And personally, I would like for them to release their entire VC library on it, perhaps even via some online subscription if necessary to maintain that service, so that people can have access to that from day one. Kind of like your idea, so you can see why I like that...
I just can't help but wonder what the dedicated console gamers would get out of this. I already discussed this with the other gentlemen since I have an example living close by: one of my best friends is a console collector, and he owns every console since the NES, but handhelds? Not so much, so if NX is only going to be a handheld, or primarily a handheld, then he is definitely not going to buy it, regardless of the fact that it can be played on the TV: it just won't be the same.
And there are many millions like him. There are now more people that buy Nintendo handhelds, at least looking at the latest figures, but that is also a bit skewed because the Wii U flopped, but even so: you'd be leaving around 13 - 14 million former Wii U owners with the choice of either buying a handheld or a competing console, because as mentioned, they may just not be interested in a "connect to TV" handheld. Especially if it isn't up to par third party title-wise.
Kind of a "take it or leave it" situation, as I already described in an earlier comment in this thread. It would highly surprise me if they would pull that card, even though we could expect to some extent for Nintendo to do something like this, because they are crazy like that sometimes...
But the average gamer probably doesn't care about red oceans and all of these other vaporous terms. They just want to play the latest games, and nine out of ten times also in the highest fidelity. Something that annoys me personally: I don't care that much for whether it's 720p or 1080p as long as it's a solid experience and/or a great story that I will enjoy playing.
And thinking of the business side again: terms of putting all your eggs in one basket comes to mind. Yes, they've lost a lot of ground in the home console business, but what other people (perhaps not you, but still) keep misunderstanding is that, contrary to popular belief, Nintendo is literally the only dedicated video game system manufacturer left in this world.
Both Microsoft and Sony can and will survive without their console business, lucrative as it might be for either one of them, but it's not their core business, as it definitely is for Nintendo. They have invested a LOT of money into rearranging their business assets, integrating departments, forging new partnerships and most of these plans have been described rather meticulously in the last two quarterly financial reports that they have released so that information is out there for all to see.
I've read them several times, just to see if I missed some nuance or something, but I'm seeing them as verbatim documents, with no double speak or subterfuge in them: the message seems very clear.
Departments (handheld and home console) have been consolidated into one NOT because they were only going to make one device or wanted to combine programmers to cater to that, but to optimize/streamline development lines for both systems, so as to not have software shortages on either home or handheld console again.
And it is also specifically mentioned that they were talking about integrating a platform, not two devices into one. Other steps have also been taken, all signifying them wanting to build a core idea/platform/ecosystem that will not only make software development for the soon to be released system(s) easy, but also for generations to come, so NX should for all intents and purposes be seen as the foundation of a new Nintendo hardware platform that will span multiple devices and multiple generations.
And mr. Iwata was never shy about his admiration for the likes of Apple and Google/Android, and even stated in the report that they should become more like Apple, with devices sharing a common OS or ecosystem that will simplify development trajectories.
Because of the untimely passing of mr. Iwata I see neither the time scale nor the need/want to change the course already laid out by him more than 6 months before his death, and as such I see these plans as being definitive and mr. Kimishima has also said multiple times that these plans will be executed as is for the most part, and they will only be making the tiniest of changes here and there, to account for a changing market and/or economy. But in my opinion, plans remaining largely the same certainly don't translate going suddenly from two devices to just one, unless that was mr. Iwata's plan all along.
In which case NX could possibly be seen as his last attempt to completely blindside both the media and the public, and then both quarterly reports are full of smoke and mirrors. Sounds more like a Sony or Microsoft tactic, if you ask me.
But I guess we'll find out soon enough. God, I keep saying that a lot lately. Before long I will not only be tired of rumors but also of myself saying that, so here's to an official announcement coming soon... Cheers.
@rjejr "Oh, and I probably wouldn't squeal, I have some self control, but it would be annoying to carry on a conversation w/ you, aaron and Gonru if half of us are privy to info the other half arent', I'm a team player. OK, not really, don't like teams, but "group of like minded individuals" player sounds stupid, even for me."
Fair enough. I can't share all the marbles in that case, though. I'm not going to post any of the rather confidential info here, so that will instantly (and annoyingly) put me on the same level as others saying they have contacts and you will just have to take my word for it because they are "reliable" sources, even though I could send you the proof with a simple click of a button.
I could even send it to our partners in crime, but for me personally, the reason to offer that to you specifically is all our previous discussions, ranging from gaming to personal, so that kind of put me in the "I can trust this guy with this info, even though I promised not to forward it" mode.
Oh well, when all is revealed, I can at least show you the dates of the emails to signify that I was right all along and knew something of NX before it was officially released...
If that German site that PlayerEssence mentioned is wrong, and I think it is, then we will be hearing nothing about NX tomorrow, so we can then look forward to the next rumored reveal date, which is the 13th.
At least gives me some time to gather some more intel. Tomorrow or Wednesday, I will receive contact details or a direct message from a person that I've been brought into contact with via my own IT contacts, and he is supposed to be able to tell me some more. If and when that happens, I'll try to find a way to formulate that into something that I can share here with all of our fellow discussion partners, now including @Kirk. Might even be interesting to see his reaction to that...
@Captain_Gonru I think we will indeed see a September reveal. It'll give them another 6 months to prepare for launch, and that obviously includes manufacturing and distribution trajectories and also a marketing strategy, so I also think that this will be the month, because they will be needing the rest of that time to execute all the other plans and be ready in time if the release date will still be March 2017. (crosses fingers in hopes of not hearing about yet another delay... )
@ThanosReXXX I'll be honest and say that I don't really think home console gamers are entirely relevant to Nintendo anymore if it isn't going to properly compete with Sony and Microsoft in terms of graphical power and even entertainment/multi-media functionality with a new home console, and I really don't think it is. Other than a handful of the most loyal fans, no one is buying that new but still underpowered and under-featured Nintendo home console. That's why I personally don't think it's a major loss basically merging the home console aspect of its business into a hybrid portable device. And your mate might not have historically been interested in Nintendo's handhelds but I'd wager a Nintendo hybrid handheld like the NX, as I see it, would be a lot more interesting to him than any typical handheld, and especially if it is Nintendo's only console going forward (one that basically plays every single handheld and home console game it's ever made).
Personally, I don't see Nintendo losing consumers with this hybrid idea; I see it combining its handheld and home console consumers into one for the most part, and ultimately selling more units than both the 3DS and Wii U have so far combined to date. And, I expect any gamers who are really only interested in home consoles, most of whom are probably in Sony and Microsoft's camps now anyway, wouldn't be interested in a new Nintendo home console that once again was underpowered and lacked third party support anyway, which, if Nintendo continued down the same old separate handheld and home console path, it almost certainly would be. So, NX not being a hybrid isn't going to net Nintendo those consumers anymore than Wii U did.
So, again—and this is just me imagining Nintendo has went with the hybrid solution for NX—I personally don't see any genuine negatives to going down that path at this point in time. All I can see is ways it fixes Nintendo's currently problems, merging all the convoluted control solutions and whatever else into one single and neat device, and finally pulling itself out of Microsoft's and Sony's shadows in the home console space, where it's not really successfully competing anyway, while also doing its own thing in a way that I believe most gamers will ultimately find genuinely compelling in one way or another. I firmly believe that most home console gamers are getting the new PlayStation and Xbox consoles regardless of what Nintendo does with NX at this point. I firmly believe most handheld gamers are getting whatever Nintendo's next handheld is regardless of what Microsoft of Sony do in this space. The small handful of millions who were going to buy Nintendo's next home console were likely dedicated fans anyway, and I expect the vast majority of them would buy NX if it's a device that still allows them to play it at home on the TV while also being a portable too. I also think quite a few people who are getting an Xbox or PlayStation by default would consider a hybrid NX as a portable companion console to those systems too. By going down the hybrid route, NX answers all those considerations as far as I'm concerned.
Outside of people simply saying that it would make them unhappy if NX was only a hybrid device, before they truly understand just what such a hybrid system would actually mean, I really don't see the downsides of where Nintendo or gamers lose in any meaningful way here by making NX a hybrid.
I mean, in this theoretical scenario, is your friend seriously going to pass up a new Nintendo console (the only new Nintendo console available) that lets him play games from every single one of its handheld and home consoles ever made, both at home and on the go, that's the most powerful handheld ever built, and a pretty decent home console too (certainly at least the most powerful Nintendo home console ever, even if it's less powerful than the competition, which has been the case with Nintendo's home consoles for sometime now anyway), which will see some of the best first party support in the history of company now that the two divisions are merged and basically developing for a single system, reduces all the needless extra peripherals and attachments required to play various games, will almost certainly sell multiple tens of millions of units which basically ensures strong third party support (just like every previous Nintendo handheld), will likely half the current total cost of buying separate Nintendo handhelds and home consoles (if you want all that Nintendo has to offer) . . .
I'd call him both not a real Nintendo fan and kinda mental if he actually passed that up. The only people I'd expect to pass that up are hardcore and blindly loyal Microsoft and Sony fanboys, and they simply weren't buying Nintendo's new system whatever it did.
@Kirk Well, obviously I can't look inside his head, I can only talk from experience and past preferences, and that has definitely not been handhelds in his case, so no, I don't see him being all that enthusiastic about it because he is just not into handhelds, regardless of the fact that you might be able to connect this one to the TV or not, so he could tell himself that it actually IS a home console. Well, kind of...
And I wouldn't consider over 13 million of current Wii U owners a handful of gamers. Granted, the almost 55 million 3DS owners are a considerably larger group, but let's say that at least half of these Wii U owners also have a 3DS: then Nintendo would still be losing out on well over 6 million console sales if these people couldn't be convinced to buy NX because it's primarily a handheld.
Say the device costs around $200 - $249, that would mean that Nintendo would at the very least see a total amount of $1200 million go up in smoke. Nintendo makes some dumb or weird decisions sometimes, but they're not THAT dumb.
And as for your third party on handheld comment earlier: yes there are plenty of third parties on 3DS, but these are not the same as the third parties on a home console and there are still plenty of Nintendo-only gamers that also want these third parties and are now either missing out on them, or are considering buying one of the other consoles. That's a lot of revenue gone missing if they can't cater to that demographic in some way, and a Wii U comparable handheld isn't going to give them that, so they will have to do WAY better and truly hit it out of the park and then some.
I agree that most handheld gamers will indeed be getting whatever Nintendo is going to release in that department, but that is kind of a given, since there will be no alternative and they are completely into handhelds, so why would they not buy the 3DS's successor?
But from all the rumors I've come across so far, a power level in between PS4 and PS NEO is the one that's currently the most prevalent, so if that is truly the case, then it will be no handheld, because there isn't any tech around right now, that can deliver that kind of power in a handheld and still keep it somewhat affordable. And then there's the cooling issue for hardware like that: you can't stuff that into a handheld.
And multiple rumors mention fans inside the case. Could just be the dev kit, but still, fans mean cooling is needed (dòh) and that in turn could definitely mean powerful hardware, well above Wii U levels.
And to add to all these points, these are the rumored third party titles coming out so far, as rumored by several leakers (so I've combined them all to make one list):
Star Wars Battlefront
Mass Effect Andromeda
Batman Arkham VR
Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
Assassin's Creed game
Pinky The Elephant (indie game)
Raving Rabbids game
Red Dead Redemption game
Final Fantasy game
Now, just for the sake of the argument, let's suppose that all the third parties that were interviewed and said they were positive and/or even enthusiastic about NX were actually completely honest, then how the heck would you see most of these kinds of games listed coming to a handheld or a "connect to TV" device that is considerably weaker than the other two current gen consoles?
I for one certainly don't, unless this is the part where the SCD's come in to amplify the power when the system is docked.
And from what I've heard and read, the SCD's are truly a thing and will be arriving later on in the NX's life cycle, so whatever NX is going to be, those could mean something in that regard. But it still leaves a lot of holes in the plot, which is also why so many people, myself included, believe that (even if it is true) the EuroGamer rumor is just part of the story and not the complete picture.
@ThanosReXXX "Now, just for the sake of the argument, let's suppose that all the third parties that were interviewed and said they were positive and/or even enthusiastic about NX were actually completely honest, then how the heck would you see most of these kinds of games listed coming to a handheld or a "connect to TV" device that is considerably weaker than the other two current gen consoles?"
In much the same way I see a whole bunch of current-gen games coming to the likes of Xbox 360 and PS3 already . . . because developers actually see value in supporting those systems even though they're last-gen tech.
And, you seem to be obsessed with the idea that Nintendo will ultimately lose consumers and lose money if it doesn't make a dedicated home console as well as a handheld going forward; like the loss of the 13 million Wii U owners means the overall sales numbers can't possibly go up higher than they are now in general. But, let's just imagine if Wii never existed at all . . . the DS still ultimately sold more consoles than 3DS and Wii U combined thus far; and I'm predicting a hybrid NX would sell more like the DS plus a little bit of the Wii than the DS plus the Wii U. I'm trying to say that I think such a hybrid portable is setting itself up to be Nintendo's most successful handheld of all time, by virtue of being its best handheld ever PLUS basically a home console too. So, where you see a loss, I see a gain. I guess it's all about how we come at it.
I genuinely believe a hybrid NX, if handled properly, has the potential to be the biggest selling console of all time (handheld and home console)—again, IF it's handled right. And in that scenario it's basically irrelevant that it's a single console rather than a separate handheld and home console; in fact, it just makes things a whole lot simpler and more streamlined for both Nintendo and the consumer.
@ThanosReXXX Guess you'll just be sitting on a mountain top next to Nitneodo on it's mountain top. Maybe you and Kimishima can wave to each other and exchange smoke signals.
I bought a new stove online last night after mid-night. Domestication is a full time job, and then some.
@Kirk IF it's handled right indeed. And there's a LOT riding on that if it's all bets on one system. Seems like a marketing disaster in the making, in my professional opinion.
And did you really just go and try to nullify the significance of Nintendo missing out on a potential $1200 million?
Even for a large company, that's a lot of money to lose.
@rjejr Well, if you're so happy that you bought a new stove then maybe you should just forget about your gaming life altogether, or at the very least, put it on the back burner...
But seriously, like I already said to @Captain_Gonru yesterday, I am only human, so I might be completely wrong and some rectal towels are now laughing their guts out at me believing all the info that they are feeding me, but I never consider myself to be above others or "sitting on top of a mountain".
I'm just trying to get a clearer picture for myself, and subsequently for others, instead of waiting and waiting AND waiting until someone at Nintendo HQ has FINALLY decided that it has been enough with all the rumors and will just tell us what the fudge NX actually is...
And Kimishima doesn't really seem to be the wavy type. More like some samurai overlord with a tendency to mercilessly cut down any and all that oppose him...
@Kirk Oh, and a lot of current gen games aren't ported to Xbox360 or PS3 at all anymore, simply because the hardware can't cope with the more ambitious titles.
There are plenty of examples where those last gen versions were ultimately dropped for that very reason, even right at the beginning of the current generation. Project CARS comes to mind, and I could name you a couple of other ones.
The likes of COD and all will still come to previous gen consoles occasionally, but often in a cut down form, and I don't just mean the graphics: the Xbox360 & PS3 versions of COD Black Ops 3 for example, only offered online multiplayer, and had the single player story of the game removed, so it is actually only half a game for people not owning an Xbox One or PS4.
@ThanosReXXX I only tried to nullify the importance of Nintendo's current home console users (and their monetary equivalent) in terms of the loss of them not being a real "loss" as I see it, because I expect most current Wii U owners who are waiting for a new Nintendo console would simply get the hybrid NX, especially seeing as the majority of them are clearly hardcore Nintendo fans and the NX would be their only option of a new Nintendo console at that point. And, I believe NX by design would be a more attractive value proposition to more people than once again going with a separate handheld and home console model, so my predicted overall increased total sales (more than 3DS and Wii U combined) by being a hybrid system negates the loss of sales of the dedicated home console part of the business, and it also just makes everything easier for everyone involved too.
But, you are correct, it does and would take a lot to get it right—which is true whatever Nintendo decides to do—and it's Nintendo's job to make sure it gets it right.
@ThanosReXXX But they were for a long time, and I expect the same would be true of a brand new handheld with slightly more power than a Wii U. I expect a hybrid NX like this would get a whole lot of PS4 and Xbox One games down-ported to it (and both those systems are going to see new games for quite some time), especially if it's predicted to sell anywhere near as many units as any of Nintendo's previous handhelds (and I see no reason why it wouldn't). The Wii U basically had the same idea in the home console space but failed because it sold utterly crap. I really don't think Nintendo's brand new handheld needs to worry about that, however, particularly if it's also capable of being used as a home console too.
@Kirk Taking just a few picks from that rumored third party list clearly says otherwise. Top of that list: Star Wars Battlefront, a game that is already making the Xbox One stutter, and makes even the more powerful PS4 falter here and there. That would definitely not be possible on hardware only slightly more powerful than a Wii U, and the same goes for a lot of the other games as well.
Not all of them, as the engines they use allow them to be scaled, so assuming that Nintendo did at least go for less developer-alienating hardware there is still some room to wiggle, but not all that much.
@ThanosReXXX I think it's irrelevant that this game or that game wouldn't work on the system and probably wouldn't be down-ported; my whole point is looking at it in the same way the likes of Xbox 360 and PS3 saw down-ports of loads of current-gen games just because devs thought it made sense to do so (not all games but many games). I'm simply saying it would probably make similar sense with this rumoured hybrid NX, that's at a power level slightly more than a Wii U, to down-port a whole bunch of current-gen games, especially as the machine is supposed to support Unreal Engine 4 (which has down-porting, or downscaling, basically built into it). If the NX sells as many units as I imagine it could then I can't see any good reason why the big devs wouldn't want to support it with a bunch of down-ports, thinking of it primarily as Nintendo's latest cutting-edge handheld rather than an underpowered home console (which is where the Wii U failed, both in terms of not selling anywhere near enough units in year one and being an underpowered and under-featured home console).
PS. That list of rumoured titles means absolutely nothing to me; it could have been made up by a woman on the street for all I know. I certainly wouldn't use it to discuss what may or may not be the case with NX. I've seen a thousand such lists in my time, but I'll only believe whatever games are coming to NX when I see them officially announced.
@ThanosReXXX "And Kimishima doesn't really seem to be the wavy type. More like some samurai overlord with a tendency to mercilessly cut down any and all that oppose him..."
Well hopefully your mountain and his are far apart then.
And I never meant to imply superiority w/ that mountain top comment, though I can see how you might interpret it that way, I simply meant hiding away in secrecy. That's what I always mean by my mountaintop comments, I've been making them about Ntineod for years - secrecy, secrecy, secrecy. If I meant "high and mighty" I'd probably say something else. Not sure what, maybe just "high and mighty" but mountaintop means secrecy and isolation, not superiority. In your case maybe evil lair.
Nice stove joke.
@rjejr Me, having an evil lair? Just because I chose a fictional character like Thanos as my avatar? The term evil lair somehow makes me think of my ex...
@Kirk Oh, I agree: if it sells like hot cakes, then developers will support it, just like they did with the Wii, but you have to admit that a lot of that support saw either half-hearted attempts or completely different versions of games running on custom-built engines.
And you're very right about the scalability of the engines, and I also already mentioned that in my previous comment, but there are still some things that no amount of scaling can fix, which is also why I mentioned the Star Wars Battlefront game and how it already under-performs in some ways on Xbox One and PS4, which is not surprising either, since power-wise, these are nothing more than mid-range gaming PC's, and the game (running on the Frostbite 3 engine) is very demanding in (world) size, graphics and technical abilities.
But that game coming to NX is just a rumor. The new Fifa game, however, is not. And as it so happens, that runs on the same engine. Frostbite is written in C++ and only runs on PC's and home consoles. There is no version of it's current iteration that runs on mobile or smart platforms.
There is a special mobile version of Frostbite in the works that is called Frostbite GO (labeled as such WAY before that Pokémon game) that could be an option somewhere in the future, but since that is far from ready yet, it wouldn't be an option now.
The article also emphasizes the fact that a certain type of hardware is needed to run games made with this engine.
That makes me come to the following conclusion: Fifa 17 on NX = NX is considerably more powerful than the Wii U, not just moderately.
Frostbite 3 is one of the main reasons (besides the abysmal sales of the system) why so many EA games weren't published on the Wii U: it simply wasn't powerful enough to run the engine.
No surprise either, and the newer games are even more demanding than that, which is quite obvious if you look at the minimum requirements to run their latest game (Battlefield 1) on PC. Since you're a developer, I'm pretty sure you'll know your way around these specs and how to translate them to a console or similar enclosed platform:
@ThanosReXXX You're right about the Wii; a lot of crap came to that system from third parties. We'd just have to hope that since this hybrid NX would not be primarily focused on a new type of control (even as versatile as it would be) that developers would see it's possible to simply put normal and popular games on there rather than mostly gimmicky casual junk.
Regarding Fifa 17 coming to NX: I personally don't think that says much about the power of the system. Fifa 17 is likely to come out on pretty much every platform in existence in one form or another, including even DS probably, so it could be anything on NX as far as I'm concerned. Yes, it probably will use Frostbite, but if NX is around the power of PS4 and Xbox One or just below, as rumoured, I'm pretty sure EA can make a decent version of the game for the system if it really wants to and it believes it will be financially worth it in the end.
@Kirk Well my friend, that would then mean that the NX version (if it is indeed a handheld) will be running on that mobile port of Frostbite: the console version of Fifa is exclusively developed with Frostbite 3 and is not coming to any other platform other than PC and consoles.
So we would indeed be getting a much weaker version, which would not be good, because that would open the door, once again, for a truckload of lousy ports, just like with the Wii and Wii U.
@ThanosReXXX Again, that's only an issue if you think of the NX as being basically a home console that's competing directly with Sony's and Microsoft's home consoles, which, if it's a hybrid and primarily handheld as rumoured, it is not. As a handheld, getting a mobile port of Fifa 17 is not a negative; just like it wouldn't be a negative to 3DS owners to get a slightly less graphically intensive 3DS version of Fifa 17, and just as it wouldn't be a negative to see a slightly less graphically intensive version of Fifa 17 on Apple TV. The thing to keep repeating here is that NX is not a next-gen home console intended to directly compete with other next-gen home consoles graphically, at least as it's rumoured, it's the most powerful handheld ever created that can, as a total bonus, also play its games on your TV in a way that isn't just a total clunky gimmick. It is primarily a handheld but it does also function basically as a perfect Wii U when played at home, for all intents and purposes, and a Wii (with "Wimmotes" included), and a NES, SNES, N64, GC, possibly many other retro consoles . . . and maybe even a tablet too. And, it allows you to enjoy both handheld and home console gaming at a fraction of the prices of what two separate new handheld and home console systems would cost. That's all IF the NX is this rumoured hybrid but primarily handheld console with detachable "Wiimotes" and all the other stuff.
@Kirk Well, what about the whole "detachable controllers" thing then? There goes your hope for a hybrid NX that "wouldn't be primarily focused on a new type of control"...
And you misunderstand me on the other part. I am not focusing on the NX as being basically a home console that's competing directly with Sony's and Microsoft's home consoles, I'm trying to wrap my head around these games being possible on an NX handheld when it is painfully obvious that at least half of these games won't be able to. And as I already said, it's not just a case of scaling down graphics and/or effects. Some of these games are also demanding in other ways.
So, that would either mean that we don't get these games at all, or that the horror becomes real and we are once again faced with abysmal ports or alternative versions of these games. Wiiception...
I love me a powerful handheld, so that part I'm perfectly fine with, but what I'm not fine with is a sub par experience or a barren experience on my TV because of whatever reason. And then we will only be playing mobile versions of games on the TV as well, which kind of negates the whole effect of playing on the TV. If it's these same mobile games, then I will just play these on the handheld when I'm at home too, no TV needed for those...
@ThanosReXXX Those detachable controllers are mostly just so it supports Wii games out the box, as I see it. It's basically Nintendo's slightly better solution to making a single console that happens to be able to play all of Nintendo's legacy games than my own solution, because I never managed to come up with a design that actually also included the Wiimotes. But, it's primary function is not being a Wii; it's being and awesome hybrid system that's a truly stunning handheld and a pretty great little home console too (basically a Wii U+, but this time surely with better sales and better support).
If this hybrid NX sells what I imagine such a system would sell you will get most of those games. Likely, they won't be as graphically impressive as the other home consoles, but I think with such a hybrid system that becomes mostly irrelevant.
I think sacrificing raw power on the home console end is the choice that has to be made, because no one is buying Nintendo home consoles anymore anyway, and the people that are are clearly fine with underpowered hardware, which the NX, as a home console, will continue that trend just fine and dandy.
@Kirk Well, I'm still hoping for a new full-blown home console experience, and one that is far superior to the Wii U. If they actually do reveal a hybrid device, then I hope I will be able to get myself so hyped up for it that I will become just as enthusiastic as you seem to be about it, because right now, I'm absolutely not feeling the love there, I'm afraid...
@ThanosReXXX I know you are, and I know you're not. lol
If the rumours are true you'll get a home console that is basically the Wii U all over again in terms of power (just a little bit more powerful and with a few necessary tweaks/fixes here and there), but it will also be a Wii U that you can actually use as a proper Nintendo handheld and will likely see the kinds of sales numbers and third party support that Nintendo's handhelds usually see. So, it's basically the Wii U we all wanted in the first place (at least the Wii U I wanted), combined with the next-gen Nintendo handheld we could only dream of until now.
I think you will get excited . . . once you finally get it properly.
@ThanosReXXX I'm not sure if you'll be able to read the comic text in here, but it's fairly appropriate, you contemplating the NX after vanquishing all foes.
@Kirk Maybe, very maybe. The Wii U we always wanted was due 5 years ago, and not now anymore, because it will be weak and a laughing stock once again. I would love for Nintendo to make this one a success, and in order for that to happen, they can't even sneeze in the wrong direction or they're done for this generation.
And the Wii U we all wanted also doesn't compute with Nintendo completely moving away from the concept of the Wii/Wii U and not making another Wii U. Riddle me that one, then.
@ThanosReXXX Well, that's why it's not solely a Wii U with its most obvious issues addressed and decent sales numbers; that alone wouldn't be enough anymore. It's clearly far, far more than that. And, again, it's not a weak and underpowered home console; it's the most powerful handheld console of all time.
A handheld that also functions as a home console and that also allows you to play every single game from each and every one of the lineages of those Nintendo platforms (handheld and home console), in a way that actually controls basically perfectly with each and every legacy platform, is a step away from an underpowered home console that has a touch screen gimmick and requires a bunch of separate peripherals just to play some of the legacy games. And that's just the hardware; no one's talked about the software or firmware yet—just imagine if Nintendo did something like the creation suite I mentioned. Also, being something new and different obviously doesn't mean it can't also contain many familiar elements too.
@rjejr Well, the chaotic emotions started bubbling to the surface when the wonky tablet rumors started to take precedence over other, more substantial rumors.
And if my new contacts are on the level, then I will very soon be able to rid myself of all the illusions...
If you use the url command instead of img, then the picture will pop up in its actual size, and you will still remain on the page. Now I had to select "view image" in my browser, making me have to reload this page to answer you.
@Kirk Well, my point is that if they said that, and that was their plan, then it shouldn't be another Wii U, improved or not.
And think of how the audience will react, with the original Wii U still in the back of their minds.
Nintendo: "No, no, please understand, this console is better and it is the Wii U that you've always wanted"
Consumers: "prove it, you crazy Japanese company. Where the hell are the third parties? Gone again after the first few games?"
@ThanosReXXX The Wii U functionality would just be one function of the system, just as the Wii is a function of the Wii U but it's not a Wii. It's just as much a DS/3DS or Wii as it is a Wii U.
All Nintendo has to do is market it as its next-gen handheld, the most powerful handheld ever created (which can also play on your TV), and the problem of it being perceived as a Wii U is basically eliminated.
@Kirk Ah, my friend... If real life (and marketing campaigns) were only as easy as that...
I'm gonna go and look for some positive rumor mongers now, I'm starting to feel sad...
@ThanosReXXX Well, funnily enough, the rumours have said that Nintendo is going to focus on the notion of the NX being about "gaming on the go" and "taking your games with you".
If this had been called Nintendo's next handheld from the get-go, rather than it being left ambiguous and everyone assuming it's a new dedicated home console, we wouldn't be having this conversation; you'd be hyped out your nut for it, as would all of us.
All Nintendo has to do is bring the thinking back around to it basically being the next great handheld system, which you can additionally play on your TV—have an Ad showing kids playing it on the bus and in the park and then when they get home they plug it into their TV and continue playing from there—problem solved.
@Kirk I can't see how that's funny in regards of all we have already discussed.
God, I almost feel like I'm in some bad Alice in Wonderland trip, having taken a bite of the wrong mushroom. Now I just need to find the little bottle with the potion to make it all better again before the Queen chops my head off...
@ThanosReXXX It's not actually funny; it just is what it is. lol
@Kirk Let me fix that for you, fellow NLife member:
It's just what you believe (or hope, considering your own idea) it is, not necessarily what it actually is.
I have no idea, I just have hopes and logic tells me that a handheld only, hybrid or not, is commercial suicide, so for now I can't get behind that plan, so Nintendo really has to blow me away with something SO brilliant (with both the device itself and the marketing campaign surrounding it, because I will also be looking at it from that point of view) before they will be able to win me over.
Whatever the case, I'm confident that it will be revealed this month, so we shall see if I can celebrate or if I will have to congratulate you...
@ThanosReXXX Well, yeah, I'm absolutely speculating, just as much as everyone else, and I'm ultimately just as clueless as everyone else as to what the hell Nintendo is doing with NX beyond some rumours.
So, were/are you disappointed with the 3DS? I consider that an all round pretty great handheld at this point, as was true with basically every other previous Nintendo handheld too, and I'm excited for Nintendo's next handheld almost by default as a result. Nintendo really hasn't given me any strong reason to doubt it's ability to deliver another great handheld going forward.
Ignoring what you would like NX to be for a second, is there a reason you would be disappointed if Nintendo's next handheld were as powerful as a Wii U+, let you play it through the TV when at home, allowed you to play all its previous console's games (both handheld and home console) with controls that feel basically perfect for each of those platforms, would see some of the most robust first party support to date, and was pretty much guaranteed to sell enough units to see strong third party support too?
Right now, and based on the rumours, that is NX to me.
@Kirk @rjejr Ah, found my magic potion. My head is starting to feel better now...
Good for you.
@Kirk I dare you to watch that and hear what he has to say...
As for your question in comment #252, I refer you back to the second part of comment #237:
"I love me a powerful handheld, so that part I'm perfectly fine with" and I'm still content with my current 3DS XL (the old version, not the New 3DS) but I do notice that it's getting on a bit.
Not having any real competitors has made them a bit complacent, methinks...
But a really powerful and modern handheld? Where do I sign? And I even said that I also like most of your concept. But I still want that home console as well....
@ThanosReXXX Well, I think you'll at least get the handheld part. I'm not so sure about the home console part personally. But, you have your sources and if you really trust them then you might just get what you want.
@ThanosReXXX But I like my embedded pics, it's what I do.
The links may open it bigger, but when I go back thru comments a few days or a week later it's easier for me to see my posts scrolling thru quickly then only having a link.
@Kirk Yeah, I probably will get that handheld. Guess that I should be semi-preparing myself for having to buy a PS NEO or Xbox Scorpio to go with it and cater to all my needs...
@rjejr then do both in some cases, like when wanting people almost just as old as you to be able to read the tiny letters...
@ThanosReXXX Have I mentioned the SMD theme music is growing on me. Certainly better, and less loud, than HNF. Gonna go watch that now, still need to watch the hour long PE vid, I'm looking forward to that one.
@rjejr I seriously thought that he was going to use the new intro that a fan sent him:
And if you want to relax, take 18,5 minutes of your time to watch Dave's Cabo San Lucas holiday video (honeymoon with the missus) that has a lot of different music, mostly coming from the boat he's on.
I found it strangely relaxing, even though it was not at all what I was looking for in my hunt for NX news...
@rjejr "then do both in some cases"
Our family motto is "too much work". And I'm not even joking, joking about it would be too much work.
My post from SMD youtube channel, b/c typing something new here would be too much work.
Cliff notes for people who don't want to spend 7 minutes when only about 2 minutes have relevant info, rest of the time is spent trying to make those 2 minutes sound legit.
NX was supposed to launch this holiday w/ 30 games, delayed for a spec boost
Ubi has BG&E2 and 1 other game exclusive on NX
NX is a home console w/ a portable component
PS4 power, not PS4k Neo power
@rjejr And let me know when you've watched that PE video: I'm interested to read your thoughts on that one.
Be sure to get to watching that this week, though. If the September 13 reveal rumor is true, then there will no longer be any point in listening to that video.
@rjejr BETWEEN PS4 power and NEO power...
If you do write it down, better do it right the first time...
And why post all that? For whom? @Captain_Gonru or @aaronsullivan?
@Kirk certainly isn't watching...
@rjejr "rest of the time is spent trying to make those 2 minutes sound legit"
Well, that's what you do when you either want to emphasize your points or strengthen your claims/sources with some kind of proof or foundation, so people know where it's coming from.
I'm beginning to see that you might not be a person that I could give a sales pitch to, because these work in the same way, looping back several times to the original point to keep strengthening the unique selling points. Although sales pitches are generally a lot shorter than 7 minutes, depending on the topic...
@ThanosReXXX "Well, that's what you do when you either want to emphasize your points or strengthen your claims/sources with some kind of proof or foundation, so people know where it's coming from."
But the only people watching his vids at this point are people who are already on board. He shoudln't need to spend the first 2 minutes telling us about the French website's authenticity, I'm sure he's already been over that before. If he wants to pad his vid I'd rather he talk about all that - you should beleive me b/c this... - after he gets to the point. vid should start - here's the news, BETWEEN PS4 and Neo, BG&E2, home w/ portability. Then tell us all about his French connections. B/c if people dont' care about his news to care if it's true or not, then they can skip the end.
If he spent 5 minutes talking about a reliable source and how he tracked it down and certified it and did all this vodoo hodoo and then at the end he reveals the NX is black, well who cares?
I posted those remarks b/c I think that's what peopel want to know, the rumours, then they can decide if those rumours are worth knowing how reliable they are, but tell us th eurmour sfirst, verification 2nd.
Like Nintneod should have told us what NX was first, that in launches in March 2017 second. B/c now you have all of these people wanting to know if they should be saving up money or not for a console that launches in 6 months. Have you ever before heard of a company announce a launch date of a console w/o saying whether it was a handheld or home console? We are all waiting for March, and we don't even know what we are waiting for. I think that's what's adding to some of the built up frustration. They told us March 2017, they told us Zelda, but they havent told us what it is, home, handheld, hybrid. How can we know when we are supposed to want something when they wont' even tell us what it is.
Announce a new console first, then announce the launch date. Simple.
@ThanosReXXX Oh, and you don't want to try and sell me anything. Nobody ever sells me anything. I decide what I want to buy and ask questions about things I may not know about. Which thanks to Google isn't much. Which is why a buy $1,000 stoves online at midnight, away from sales people. I'm just an old ornery know-it-all [email protected]@rd. And what I don't know Google does. Or I ask you.
@ThanosReXXX Just watched PE on "tomorrows" NX ND. He seems very reasonable.
And he has a lot, I'm going to go watch a bunch now.
I'm guessing some rumours started spreading a week or so back about the 3DS ND and the "telephone game" took it's natural course.
OTOH, both Sony and Apple are on Wed the 7th, so maybe Nintendo is/was thinking about squeezing it in at the last minute?
What's hard about being me is that I know Nintendo walks to the drum of it's own Nintnedo logic, and +I know my logic runs counter to theirs, so whatever I think they will do, I then assume they'll do the opposite. Only sometimes I know they will do the opposite, so I try to guess the opposite of what I think to predict what they will do, and then I get so far down the well I forget if they are going to do what I think or the opposite of what I think.
Those words big enough for you?
@rjejr Comment #265 Fair points on the video, agreed on Nintendo, but as you know even I am now MORE than tired of waiting, so I suppose me agreeing would be well withing the ballpark of expectations...
Comment #266 I'd definitely be able to sell you something. I'm not gonna say anything, but I've had more than enough experience to know how to level with people of all walks of live, whether it's on the phone or face to face, and I am one of those people that can sell a fridge to an Eskimo, except I do it in the friendliest of ways, so I'm not a "shark" or a "sales tiger", as it is called in the business. (don't know if you've ever seen Boiler Room or Glengarry Glen Ross, but those are good examples of the suffocating environments that I've been in when I was younger)
I just know how to connect my client's unique selling points to the prospect's unique buying reasons. And literally EVERYBODY has those, even you...
Comment #267 "and +I know my logic runs counter to theirs"
Just your logic? Scratch that and make that EVERYBODY's logic, Probably more accurate...
"Those words big enough for you? "
That's not ornery, that's just you being a total [email protected]
(now were are my binoculars?)
I already mentioned this before, but it may have escaped your attention because of all those comments you had to answer...
If the NX part is the only thing you're interested in, then when you go and watch that hour long PE video, skip straight to the 12min mark, because he begins the video discussing the 3DS Direct.
If you're up for that, feel free to watch the video entirely, but otherwise you'll now where to start off from.
And grab the latest HNF video while you're at it. Dial down the volume before you start, although it's a bit less annoying than the last one...
And be sure to read the NX hints he picked up from the Direct in the comments section right beneath the video. Conspiratory stuff if ever there was...
And here his previous video: (the loud one was the one before this one, so you're two behind)
At the 46sec mark and at the 2min50sec mark you can basically see some of the exact info that I have also received from my contacts.
The first one emphasizing the two devices thing, and the second one that foundations for DMP working with Xilinx were already laid in the second half of 2009, and they are still working together, and Xilinx was also at CEDEC2016 together with DMP.
@ThanosReXXX Listened to a lot of that PE 1 hour vid, but he dind't say much that interested me. I think I agree w/ a lot of what he says, and I know you agree w/ a lot more of what he says, but I'm realizing all videos take up too much time, I'd rather just read the bullet points. And HFN, well it's like trying to break one of those Dan Brown code things in Angels and Demons.
Guys smart and knows stuff, but I think he grew up idolizing Frank Gorshin's Riddler. If you have to tell me what second to look at, well hes doing it wrong. No words in this one.
@rjejr Well, I don't HAVE to tell you what second to look at, I just thought I'd do you a favor in not having to look at the entire crazy ride that is usually the general content of his videos.
And more importantly, to show you what I received as well without having to send you an email, since you don't want to be excluding our other discussion partners, who don't really seem to be all that invested in the conversation anymore anyways...
But meanwhile, I've talked to HNF and he is indeed a very smart guy. He's a level 2 software and tech engineer (which means only 1 level lower than the upper most people) for the Dutch government and in this position he comes into contact with all kinds of IT and tech people from all over Europe and beyond.
From what I've understood, the developers he has talked to actually like the way he does things, because he sort of hides the messages in his crazy videos without giving away any crucial information that could possibly lead back to them.
But besides the actual slides, there's also another method to the madness, namely the movie quotes, but you would indeed have to get into Riddler mode to get some of them...
But that one video I mentioned has the answers to the clues described in the comments section, for all you non-puzzlers.
(that would be this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqbNFZoXOeU)
And I think HNF is WAY too young to even know who Frank Gorshin is, let alone to have seen a single episode of the original Batman series...
@Captain_Gonru That's kind of what I've been saying myself of late: what if the EuroGamer is only PART of the story and just concerns the handheld? All people I've spoken to so far myself now, all speak of two devices and no hybrid, but that's just me speaking to devs via my own IT contacts, so nothing is conclusive, but it would indeed be a good explanation of why both camps are so tenacious in their efforts to push their story as being the correct one.
@ThanosReXXX 9 days behind, whittling down the backlog
"Just ask yourself this: what in the name of whoever is so very special and secret about the things that the rumor mentions, that Nintendo would be so protective of it out of fear that the competition would steal ideas from it? My answer is: nothing."
I've read this a few times and I keep reading it differently each time, but I've finally decided on - "the rumours must be false b/c there is nothing special about them."
Which is all fine and good. But I still haven't seen anything special in the "2 consoles" camp either.
And as nice as a cheap home console would be, really nice if it played 3DS games, I really hope we never find anything "Special" about the NX. I'm more than happy w/ a home and handheld console that play the same game cartridges, and if the handheld can be used a Gamepad controller for 2 screen games, so much the better.
What would we call a home and handheld that are sold separately but could function as a Wii U 2? I think that would be more the "fusion" idea. (I think Vita and PS3 did that for LBP but I don't think they ever named it, but they couldn't claim it was new. I'd link to the Sony site but since you refuse to go there I won't bother.) Remember "Fusion"? It was all the rage 2 years before "Hybrid".
I recall many a discussion on what would make a hybrid and what would make a fusion. For me hybrid was 1 console 2 things, fusion was 2 consoles coming together to form 1. Many people felt the opposite, or they were interchangeable.
Anyway here are the Fusion specs from over 2 1/2 years ago.
Not sure why that fell out of favor but it has a few things I like - four DS working w/ Terminal is the way Wii U should have worked, NFC, discless, 3DS games on both.
Maybe the hybrid has all been a smoke screen since Fusion leaked so long ago?
Here, I know you like your youtube vids.
I think it's funny these 2 1/2 year old rumours could be true. Would probably be the longest ever time between leak and launch I think, about 38 months.
@rjejr "I've read this a few times and I keep reading it differently each time"
Well, I only meant it in one way: what could be so special or secret about the EG rumor that they would want to hide it from the competition because they (Nintendo) seem to think that Sony or Microsoft might see it and would want to copy it. And to me, there simply isn't anything of that caliber there.
And in the two dedicated devices there is indeed nothing special either, in and of themselves, but it's about the added factor. So it's not just your standard console and handheld, they share cartridges/games and they have some kind of special gimmick.
And for backward compatibility and gaming on the go, we have a streaming capability from console to handheld via Xilinx/Wifi so you can game anywhere instead of just 15 to 30 feet from your TV. And the rest of the stuff described in HNF's blog (have you read that already?) pretty much hits the nail on the head as far as I am concerned, and he adds the Dynamic AR/VR thing to it as the gimmick. He says he has actually seen a haptic screen first hand, so something must be up with that, even if only in the dev kit, then we should at least see part of that back in the final product.
But I actually liked the Fusion concept, although I have to admit that back then, I didn't think that was it either. The mock up of that concept that I like best is at 58 secs, by the way...
And what the hell kind of accent does that guy have? According to his channel info, he is from the US, but I don't know of any region with that accent. Or maybe it's somewhere around New Orleans or rather Canada, but it sounds odd.
Either way, and see to it that you are firmly seated, my friend...
I think you might be on to something here!
Add what's written in the blog of HNF and combine it with/superimpose it on the Fusion, and you've got a 90% match, save for the missing disc drive and the AR/VR thing that he is describing, but other than that, it's pretty damn close, and while I'm in a good mood, I'd even dare to say that this could account for where the EG rumors come from, seeing a dev kit with stuff like that, except for the part of the breakaway controllers, but then again: you never know what dev kit stuff looks like because most of us never get to see it until well after a console's demise.
Remember the concept version of the GamePad? Looks an awful lot like detachable controllers...
And too bad we never got the version of the Wii Zapper that you could attach a screen to:
Oh, and I think your understanding of the concepts "hybrid" and "Fusion" is spot on, so don't let 'em make you doubt yourself...
I always use the hybrid car as an example: runs on gasoline and electricity, all in one car, it isn't two cars...
"Maybe the hybrid has all been a smoke screen since Fusion leaked so long ago?"
Exactly what I said somewhere a couple of days ago: "maybe, Nintendo is letting all these rumors run riot on purpose, because it diverts attention from what the device actually is" so agreed there too.
Am I forgiven yet for being that A*hole that keeps on quoting those lying son of a guns from Nintendo?
@rjejr PE is at it again:
@ThanosReXXX And I'm at it again, doing the emails in reverse order, so hold on tight, could be a bumpy ride.
Gamestop Expo sounds promising for your expert skills. I'm not sure what to call those skills - analytical, detective, conspiracy? Dev kit hitting 1.0 makes me think it could be either DMP or Nvidia or AMD, timing is right for all of them, so that doesn't help.
NX reveal is coming, of that I'm sure, sometime between Sept 13, 2016 and Feb 28, 2017.
@ThanosReXXX "Am I forgiven yet for being that A*hole that keeps on quoting those lying son of a guns from Nintendo?"
Nothing to be forgiven, just 2 guys w/ strong points trying to get our point across.
oooh ,just heard 2 cars crash hard at my street corner, skid, crash, metal smashing, sorry, it's a bit distracting
That Gmaepad Wiimote thing always looked like deatachabel Wiimotes to me.
Still need to read HNFs blog. Having a new stove installed and delivered between 10 and 2 so that's distracting as well. Gas stove, worried abut the house exploding and all that.
I think the long post I just wrote about Iwata's comments covers a lot of the rest.
Man, I hope it's a complete reveal. When Sony showed of the PS4 they only showed games, not the console. If Nitneod does an NX ND that only has games, not hardware, I'm going to lose it. No matter what the hardware is it's going to take a long time to explain properly I think.
I more email to go. Well not counting the backlog, down to 141.
@ThanosReXXX All right, I know I said we shouldn't discuss this any more b/c I have a habit of flying off the deep end, but I've decided it's relevant enough and we haven't really touched on it before.
Iwata's words. All of them.
People like quoting this part, and ending there, b/c it makes a case for Home and Away.
"When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."
Now brothers can mean a lot of things - step, identical twins, conjioned/siamese twins. So even in saying "brothers" there is a lot of room for divergent hardware.
But how many youtubers quote Iwatas following statements?
"I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated."
He isn't sure. Iwata himself said he isn't sure. Of course, you could argue that he is trying to give out a false lead, misdirection. But if you claim that idea for this statement wouldn't it then also hold for every statement the makes? Maybe every statement is a lie on purpose? So either Iwata always speaks the truth or he always lies, you can't cherry pick. If he only lies or tells the truth sometimes, how are we to know? We can't know, so then we can't go by anything he says.
And finally, the quote that I've been using the most, w/o even knowing I was using it.
"Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment."
Iwata was smart enough to leave himself an open. He didn't know whether they would need 1 device or 2, that depended on the consumers. And at the time either Wii U or 3DS could have failed. That could be easily understood as how well the devices, home and handheld.
So he himself didnt' know whether to make 1 or more devices. So whatever they decide to do, they can say it is w/ Iwatas blessing. Make 1 device, that's what consumers wanted. Make 2 devices, that's what consumers wanted.
When taken as a whole Iwatas statements neither prove NX is 1 device or two, only that he himself didn't know yet. And then a year later he passed away. But all of those sentences are from the same "brothers" interview. Even when he was making that "brothers" statement he wasn't locking himself in, he was leaving himself an out, just have to read more of the interview, but I thik most people stop at "brothers".
Also, in an ealrier rpely to you Imentioned his use of "platofrm" codl refer to within 1 gen or between ges. His last snetence got me thiking that -
"However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another,"
"attempt to move from one platform to another" could mean going from 1 gen to the next. Could also mean he wants backwards compatibility, maybe between NX and 3DS.
Still don't know what it will be, hybrid or fusion, but HNF has me pretty close to 50-50, though probably more like 55-45 hybrid, just b/c they can do more w/ that. Once they have a home and away they are stuck trying to sell 2 devices. And if home fails, it's garbage. W/ a hybrid they can sell it as a portable w/ TV out or a home console thats portable, 1 console, 2 different markets, so I'm sticking w/ that one. There won't be another stand alone home console though, I think we can all agree w/ that, not after Wii U, that market is dead and buried. Maybe it ownt' play 3DS games, but it will play NX handheld games. And 3DS games if they actually want to sell it.
@rjejr I'm going to completely ignore that GameStop rumor, since that is not going to happen: a GameStop reveal for a major console release would be the biggest anti-climax ever seen in the entire history of video gaming.
But besides that, I obviously didn't want to deprive you of EP's latest video, so I posted it anyway...
My skills, as far as they are even labeled, are analytical: it's what I need in my line of work as well, and I've learned to adopt deductive reasoning in my skill tree as well, something you've probably seen me mention plenty of times to plenty of people, maybe even to you. Maybe you should give it a try too, might help you make sense of all the pieces of the puzzle that you are still trying to fit in. Here, have a look once your stove is installed successfully without turning your home into a convertible bungalow...
And give HNF's blog a glance too. For now, it's only two posts, and even combined they are still shorter than most of my replies to you...
When you've seen his pretty clear list of things he expects or has even verified to some point, then we can see what fits where, and go from there. Unless NX is revealed tomorrow, because you will probably not have finished replying to all your emails by then...
@rjejr The quote about him not being sure about the form factor, doesn't hold as much weight to me as you seem to (want to?) give it, especially since it's preceded by him telling how many form factors they could currently maintain/support, so seeing that bit on it's own, could easily make you take it out of context.
The not more than two form factors statement CLEARLY says to me that there is indeed another set of devices on the way, and as always that will be a handheld and a console, and he just isn't sure if there is supposed to be something additional, or you could also take form factor literally, in which case he is simply talking about what shape the device should have. But the shape doesn't really matter all that much (outside of ergonomics) in relation to what's inside or how it will work, so it could be a cube, a globe or a pyramid, for all I care, but the operational part will remain the same, since the form factor is for more than half only an aesthetic issue, and the other parts are the already mentioned ergonomics and to a lesser extent, the inside needs to be spacious enough to be able to house the hardware, but other than that, it's really not all that tied to anything.
And to reiterate, the brothers statement as a whole, should point you in the direction of Apple: multiple devices sharing similar software and applications. That doesn't mean that the hardware in itself can't be different: it more than likely will be. Let's say we assume the console is going to be AMD, then there will not be an AMD handheld, because even though that tech is available (Zen Mobile) it is still too recent and expensive to be in any upcoming handheld device, so the only parties left are DMP and Nvidia, unless there is another company that we still don't know about, which seems highly unlikely.
And to me personally, DMP is the most likely of the two, because of their current ties with Nintendo and of having worked with them on the previous two handheld consoles, so it's all there already. Why step away from that and go with a new partner?
From all reports they were VERY satisfied with the work that DMP has done for them so far, so that is no reason either to end their collaboration.
And by now, with all this info, and HNF's blog, you should be at 98% non-hybrid.
You say that the whole two devices thing is the worst case scenario if it goes wrong, but it's actually the hybrid that is the worst case scenario, by FAR. If that fails, then there is no other device to fall back on, and no one in his right mind will be dumb enough to buy a failed system because the concept still has one half that actually does sell/work/make sense.
Why buy a hybrid system if you can only use it as a handheld? Or only as a console? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...
So, there WILL be another dedicated home console, nobody wants a good handheld that makes for a mediocre home console because it will always be a handheld that you connect to your TV, and that is always going to be FAR inferior to the other two. Comparisons will of course ensue, and Nintendo will get the short end of the stick once again. Insta-fail, that is what the whole hybrid idea translates to for a veteran sales guy like me.
Spreading your risk is the far more intelligent solution. And you can't do that with only one device, even if it contains several functions. If you have a TV with a DVD player inside and one of them breaks down, you lose two devices all at the same time if you have to send it off for repairs...
But agreed on the whole "moving from one platform to another" thing and what that probably means, but that was pretty much covered in my previous answer to you in the Link Amiibo topic.
@ThanosReXXX " the brothers statement as a whole, should point you in the direction of Apple"
Well it did point me in that direction, which is why over a year ago I was going on about Home and Away. But he also said:
"Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment."
So yes, he wanted two devices, the "brothers", b/c he liked home consoles, who doesn't. And then while watching Wii U tank perhaps he decided hybrid was the way to go? Even if he himself wanted a home console he said consumer demand will decide. Not what he wants, but rather what he thinks the consumer will buy. So he smartly left himself an out.
Things change. Dev kits change from Nvidia to DMP, why can't a Home console be scraped if they can get Home console power into a Handheld w/ TV out?
I obviously don't know either way, but I do know when people are using IWata's quotes to say they KNOW what NX is, they are lieing, b/c Iwata never said. He "pointed to", but he also knew they were too far from launch back then that he himself wasn't sure what they would bring to market, 1 console or 2. He preferred Apple and Android's way of doing things, multiple devices, but he was still enough of a businessman to know you can't sell things to people who don't want what you are selling. Taken all together, that's what he said, he didn't know how many devices there would be. Does seem like he leaned towards more than one, but he never locked himself in, always keeping a little wiggle room.
So if people want to guess it will be 2 devices b/c Iwata was "leaning" that way, that's what he would have "preferred", well that's OK, we all can guess. But nobody can say for certain that's what we will get b/c Iwata said that, he never said for certain that's what we will get, he hedged.
"will be determined by what consumers demand in the future"
@rjejr (dons bullet proof vest) Well, at the risk of lighting another fuse, if you say that people shouldn't make definite statements on mr. Iwata's intentions, then neither should you, because you also seem to be interpreting or reading his mind, even though you say you don't know either way.
The thing is, that most of his statements that we have now discussed, are coming from the Q3 and Q4 financial reports, which means that he was discussing the situation at the time.
The big flagpole in the whole story that you are missing, though, is planning and strategies and research & development trajectories. The quote about whether or not they will need only one device in the future, is therefore once again taken out of context. It concerns what lies beyond the current development trajectory, so it's for the generation AFTER NX, it does not relate to NX. The time needed to plan, design, research and develop a new console will more than likely mean that the NX was already quite far into its development cycle that only minor changes (such as a power upgrade) could have been added, not a complete back to the drawing board move. Nintendo has a good amount of financial reserves, but not that big that they can invest a couple of millions into a trajectory only to scrape it of the board and start all over again with a new one.
And what he meant with the "we need to be more like Apple" quote is not so much multiple devices in and of themselves, but more specifically multiple devices sharing the same Operating System and software, so that they are more easily upgrade-able and can be continued/evolved into the future, much like Apple. A simple software upgrade will then take care of the compatibility of the devices with newer titles and functionalities, and that is where he wanted Nintendo to go to. That's not me guesstimating, that is actually what he has said in multiple interviews.
And this part is from his last report, and it VERY clearly states no plans for a hybrid, which is why I am so adamant about it:
And also because mr. Kimishima explicitly stated that the larger part of mr. Iwata's plan would be executed as is, so only minor changes will have been made by mr. Kimishima, and judging from his resumé, these will almost certainly have had more to do with the financial and or marketing side, since that is where his expertise lies, not in redesigning consoles or deciding how they should look in the first place.
As for me personally, I am thinking this is what's going to happen not just because of all of the above, but also because of HNF's list of what is likely to happen (and his list is MORE than plausible and has a lot of info to back it up) but more importantly perhaps, my own research and the things the developer told me.
Like I told you back then when I first had that information, he could have been pulling my leg or stringing me along, but I honestly don't think he was. I'd like to think I'm old, smart and experienced enough to discern the difference...
And besides all that, I'd like to be positive about the device AND Nintendo's future, and a hybrid tablet thingy that offers only a slightly above Wii U home console experience as a connect-to-TV handheld just doesn't fit into that view at all, or as SMD put it so eloquently in his Twitter feed:
And I believe he is 200% right.
But whatever it is going to be, I hope we are going to be unburdened of all this rumor monging soon, because the hype must start, and if they wait much longer, people will only get even more exasperated than they already are...
@ThanosReXXX Last one finally.
Well Iwata did make it seem fairly clear there. So why all the secrecy since then?
@rjejr Beats me man, beats me...
But as far as all the information basically all being there already is concerned, that is also what I've been trying to get across to so many people, and not just on here, but apparently, continuously reaching for rumors with no tangible info whatsoever to back it up is so much more interesting...
@ThanosReXXX But I'd hate to think we've been going over all of this for well over a year just so Nitneod can announce a Home and Away that play the same cartridges. Had they announced that at E3 last year in 2015, fine, but not autumn 2016.
I think this was the original article for all of our Home and Away talk It was 11 months ago and we are still having the same discussion.
Funny thing. I was the hold-out, still thinking there would be a hybrid, long before Emily Rodgers, no separate and home console, and Damo, mister Eurogamer speaks only the truth himself, said it would be 2 consoles, home and away. That was what his "instinct" told him.
#313 "My instinct is that the mobile unit will play exactly the same games as the home console, but perhaps at a lower resolution or with less graphical complexity. This is only a guess, but I think that's one of the innovations NX will offer - a true union between mobile and domestic."
11 months ago, going in circles, nothing has changed. 11 months.
@rjejr Well, obviously his stance has changed, or at least NLife's stance, because they are all about EuroGamer, so no more separate dedicated devices for them apparently.
And you can blame Nintendo for a lot of stuff, I know I do, but what you can not put on their tab is rumors running riot or people making all kinds of wacky assumptions based upon conjecture and patents that will never see the light of day.
That's all on the people that do that, not on the company. And sure, they could have spoken sooner, to silence all that BS, but apparently they don't think they should just yet. Don't ask me why but I'm sure they'll have their reasons.
And of course it's not going to be "just" a home and away with interchangeable cartridges, that wouldn't be all that innovative to me either, although it is handy. But it certainly wouldn't fit the picture of something that you would have to keep secret from the competition, especially since it isn't very likely that either of them are going to do something with handhelds. (even though rumors of a PS Vita 2 now keep popping up these last few days, but even then... )
No, knowing Nintendo, there's going to be something quirky added that will indeed offer a distinctly different experience in comparison with the other two. Maybe HNF's idea is just that, although I'm not sure about that specific part. (the gimmick part, to be clear)
@rjejr Oh, and Emily Rogers has recently betrayed herself as being a dumb b.... talking out of her @ss yet again with saying that "the fan is noisy".
It once again shows her complete lack of any technical knowledge, since a handheld/hybrid won't have a fan. There's no handheld with a fan. It would become too bulky. It will normally have some passive cooling element, but certainly no "noisy fan"...
@ThanosReXXX I'm not reading any Emily's stuff, but wouldn't she mean the fan "in the dock" was noisy? The dock that should add a little oomph to the Parker chipset to make a portable game high enough res for an HD tv?
Again, I haven't read her comments, just what you posted, but that's where my mind immediately went, dock fan. If the dock didn't need a fan then they wouldn't need a dock, just do HDMI out over a wireless dongle. Dock is either a SCD, which might need a fan, or it lets the hybrid run faster and hotter, needing a fan. Heck, just charging and running the game "out" port on the dock over HDMI may need a fan just to keep everything cool.
I hope she said more than that or you might be the one who ends up looking like a dumb b...
@rjejr Well, to put it eloquently, no one will ever be able to compare me to a female canine...
And if they'd try, I'd probably stomp them into the ground. But I'm not aggressive or anything...
And unfortunately for her, she was talking about the specs of "the NX" in general not making specific what she meant, and that is exactly what I'm saying in regards to her lack of technical knowledge. She's just copy/pasting what her sources tell her without even completely understanding what it all means.
Oh, and I see that she changed "the fan is noisy" to "Cooling is still a little noisy". Guess that even she understood how stupid the original sentence looked.
But humor me and take a peek yourself at that list of hers:
And here's the home page: https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com
When I read the article about the specs list, I got physically nauseous from her immensely disgusting faith in her own abilities, since they're based on absolutely nothing.
Using terms like how she "shot down" any AMD rumors and so on, yègh! Stupid c...
@ThanosReXXX Well I said b... and I was thinking son of unmarried parents, which I feel confident you've been called to in your life. Probably on more than one occasion even.
"the NX" can mean anything, detachable controllers even, so her saying "the NX" doesn't disqualify anything in my mind.
@rjejr "which I feel confident you've been called to in your life."
Yup, often preceded by the word "smug", mainly because I'm right most of the time, and will let people know when I am...
So you can bet your hiney that when the outcome is indeed as I predicted, that I will gladly make the effort to completely destroy Rogers and any other idiots like King Avery Games, Doctre81, OBE1Plays and of course the lovely EG people and rest assured that I'll have tons of fun doing it too...
And on the off chance that I am wrong, then I won't feel too big to admit that.
Contrary to all the people that I named, who will surely find some inventive way to backpedal or twist their own statements into something that "kind of" means that they weren't wrong at all, probably under the guise of copious amounts of salt because of all of it only being rumors, a disclaimer they always abuse, even though their language is always pretty firm and conclusive, especially when they have a chance to ridicule the people that believe in AMD...
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